[split] "balance of female/male perspectives"
07-18-2015, 12:38 AM, (This post was last modified: 07-18-2015, 01:01 AM by ree.)
#1
[split] "balance of female/male perspectives"
I do miss my sisters and older brothers/sister who used to post here but has since left. Not to be agist or sexist or whatnot, but, don't feel the balance of female/male perspectives here and varied perspective of people who have such wide experience in life and loved to share it or share knowledge from other schools of thought/disciplines (some may view it as not being spiritual enough or relevant). Personal preference.

Ya experience... talking about philosophical and new age things has a limit and I feel that strongly since returning here. Kind of easy to get 'all in the head'... Listening to Carla ground her understanding of confederation philosophy with her own, lived-wisdom (life experience) to me is kind of preferred learning, tho I get all in the head a lot, too. 

Love this forum and the people. Lots of valuable friendships made...so grateful for that. I dunno if I want to contribute in forum so I won't. Unless it's to like posts. See ya in chat or FB!
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07-18-2015, 01:38 AM,
#2
RE: Goodbye
(07-18-2015, 12:38 AM)ree Wrote:  I do miss my sisters and older brothers/sister who used to post here but has since left. Not to be agist or sexist or whatnot, but, don't feel the balance of female/male perspectives here and varied perspective of people who have such wide experience in life and loved to share it or share knowledge from other schools of thought/disciplines (some may view it as not being spiritual enough or relevant). Personal preference.

Ya experience... talking about philosophical and new age things has a limit and I feel that strongly since returning here. Kind of easy to get 'all in the head'... Listening to Carla ground her understanding of confederation philosophy with her own, lived-wisdom (life experience) to me is kind of preferred learning, tho I get all in the head a lot, too. 

Love this forum and the people. Lots of valuable friendships made...so grateful for that. I dunno if I want to contribute in forum so I won't. Unless it's to like posts. See ya in chat or FB!

I think you're right about that. I actually do think that there are more men than women here. But this board is so small. We don't have a lot of active users. I came from a way bigger board before this. The good thing is that it does feel intimate. I feel like I've interacted with pretty much every one who's active here. Not like the other board. That wasn't really possible there.
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07-18-2015, 04:13 PM, (This post was last modified: 07-18-2015, 04:19 PM by Jeremy.)
#3
RE: Goodbye
(07-18-2015, 01:38 AM)Lighthead Wrote:  
(07-18-2015, 12:38 AM)ree Wrote:  I do miss my sisters and older brothers/sister who used to post here but has since left. Not to be agist or sexist or whatnot, but, don't feel the balance of female/male perspectives here and varied perspective of people who have such wide experience in life and loved to share it or share knowledge from other schools of thought/disciplines (some may view it as not being spiritual enough or relevant). Personal preference.

Ya experience... talking about philosophical and new age things has a limit and I feel that strongly since returning here. Kind of easy to get 'all in the head'... Listening to Carla ground her understanding of confederation philosophy with her own, lived-wisdom (life experience) to me is kind of preferred learning, tho I get all in the head a lot, too. 

Love this forum and the people. Lots of valuable friendships made...so grateful for that. I dunno if I want to contribute in forum so I won't. Unless it's to like posts. See ya in chat or FB!

I think you're right about that. I actually do think that there are more men than women here. But this board is so small. We don't have a lot of active users. I came from a way bigger board before this. The good thing is that it does feel intimate. I feel like I've interacted with pretty much every one who's active here. Not like the other board. That wasn't really possible there.

Considering we haven't had the best of luck with many of the feminine energies that have come and go over the passed year or so,  maybe it's a good thing lol. Many had been susceptible to erratic emotional outbursts which eventually caused them to leave either on their own Accord or were banned. We do have some like Jade and Yera who are definitely balanced and much needed here to balance out the masculine energy but to be honest,  I'd rather have none at all compared to the irrational outbursts I encountered by the previous members. 
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07-18-2015, 04:34 PM,
#4
RE: Goodbye
(07-18-2015, 04:13 PM)Jeremy Wrote:  
(07-18-2015, 01:38 AM)Lighthead Wrote:  
(07-18-2015, 12:38 AM)ree Wrote:  I do miss my sisters and older brothers/sister who used to post here but has since left. Not to be agist or sexist or whatnot, but, don't feel the balance of female/male perspectives here and varied perspective of people who have such wide experience in life and loved to share it or share knowledge from other schools of thought/disciplines (some may view it as not being spiritual enough or relevant). Personal preference.

Ya experience... talking about philosophical and new age things has a limit and I feel that strongly since returning here. Kind of easy to get 'all in the head'... Listening to Carla ground her understanding of confederation philosophy with her own, lived-wisdom (life experience) to me is kind of preferred learning, tho I get all in the head a lot, too. 

Love this forum and the people. Lots of valuable friendships made...so grateful for that. I dunno if I want to contribute in forum so I won't. Unless it's to like posts. See ya in chat or FB!

I think you're right about that. I actually do think that there are more men than women here. But this board is so small. We don't have a lot of active users. I came from a way bigger board before this. The good thing is that it does feel intimate. I feel like I've interacted with pretty much every one who's active here. Not like the other board. That wasn't really possible there.

Considering we haven't had the best of luck with many of the feminine energies that have come and go over the passed year or so,  maybe it's a good thing lol. Many had been susceptible to erratic emotional outbursts which eventually caused them to leave either on their own Accord or were banned. We do have some like Jade and Yera who are definitely balanced and much needed here to balance out the masculine energy but to be honest,  I'd rather have none at all compared to the irrational outbursts I encountered by the previous members. 

That's true. Some people are dealing with issues beyond the normal. I definitely have seen certain ones be emotionally unstable.
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07-18-2015, 04:55 PM,
#5
RE: Goodbye
Yep, Jeremy, thanks for illustrating the male bias here about women. That's exactly the issue I had in mind. We women are so histrionic and hysterical to fit into this over-intellectualized world of philosophical blah -blah blah. lol

Ciao!
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07-18-2015, 05:06 PM,
#6
RE: Goodbye
(07-18-2015, 04:55 PM)ree Wrote:  Yep, Jeremy, thanks for illustrating the male bias here about women. That's exactly the issue I had in mind. We women are so histrionic and hysterical to fit into this over-intellectualized world of philosophical blah -blah blah. lol

Ciao!

Oh come on Rie. You know there have been more than a few who've exhibited such behavior. The problem is that since there are unfortunately so few women,  the observation is that much more obvious. As I stated in my post,  I'd love to have more balanced women such as Yera and Jade. Its just from a historical standpoint,  my observation is correct 
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07-18-2015, 05:17 PM,
#7
RE: Goodbye
(07-18-2015, 05:06 PM)Jeremy Wrote:    I'd love to have more balanced women such as Yera and Jade. Its just from a historical standpoint,  my observation is correct 

Stand back ree, I got this one. 

And I would love to see more balanced males! Its just from a feminine perspective, my feelings count!!!
...the highest wisdom is to suffer all men to have full liberty to think on all subjects in their own way. - OAHSPE  
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07-18-2015, 05:23 PM,
#8
RE: Goodbye
Oh I wholeheartedly agree brother. More than you know
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07-18-2015, 06:49 PM,
#9
RE: Goodbye
Weird, all of the fussy people I remember were guys.
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07-18-2015, 07:38 PM,
#10
RE: Goodbye
(07-18-2015, 06:49 PM)Farseer Wrote:  Weird, all of the fussy people I remember were guys.

So you equate fussy with feminine energy?
...the highest wisdom is to suffer all men to have full liberty to think on all subjects in their own way. - OAHSPE  
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07-18-2015, 08:02 PM,
#11
RE: Goodbye
Not really, I just find it strange that Jeremy is mentioning irrational, emotionally reactive women when in my experience I've seen more guys get upset it seems.

I don't have an issue either way, I can work with both rational and irrational modes of thought.
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07-19-2015, 08:58 AM,
#12
RE: [split] "balance of female/male perspectives"
Yeah that may be because there is an overly represented male gender membership here, not that that is wrong in any way but as ree mentioned, it results in a lack of female perspective. I think the male/female energy imbalance within any given member regardless of gender, might be what you have picked up on.

If more male members were balanced in this way (as you seem to be) I wonder if more female members exist? Or is it as ree perceives that there is an over intellectual study and the getting to know ourselves through working with our emotions and living/doing catalyst is traded off?

Another thing though is females are much better at making friends than males. At least that is how I see it.
...the highest wisdom is to suffer all men to have full liberty to think on all subjects in their own way. - OAHSPE  
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07-19-2015, 10:49 AM,
#13
RE: [split] "balance of female/male perspectives"
Maybe connecting female perspective with irrational behavior wasn't that lucky Tongue

I think its a shame that spiritual knowledge/literature/etc is so dominated by the rational/logical/hunting male mind. Maybe thats why women are sometimes seen as "histrionic and hysterical" because they dont fit in these pattern. But I'd guess that from a women perspective the male mindset sometimes totally misses the essence/point too. 

Thats why I'd love to see more female aspects/perspectives here too. I'm sure we can learn from each other and grow together.

Ree, is there some topic you see where the understanding/perspective differs massively or is it more subtle? Or do you think female/male seekers work on different topics at all. I'm curious :-)
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07-19-2015, 11:46 AM,
#14
RE: [split] "balance of female/male perspectives"
Interesting. I've kinda been pondering the masculine/feminine balance on the forums as the females exhibiting a lot of yang energy and the males exhibiting a lot of yin. We are all playing the mirror game. If you sense an overbearing female presence on the forums, it is likely a personal issue on the female/male axis, and likewise if you feel the male presence is overwhelming. Obviously the numbers game here favors men, but I think a lot of the men here are exceptionally sensitive even if a comment is occasionally (and usually unintentionally) sexist. And again, the women too participate in the occasional and likely unintentional sexist commentary. We're all in a process of unraveling deeply ingrained, separatist beliefs, and the gulf between the gender dichotomy is large. I think it's just a good process to develop, especially here on bring4th, to remember that if you are pointing a finger, that you are pointing at yourself in a mirror.
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07-19-2015, 01:39 PM,
#15
RE: [split] "balance of female/male perspectives"
(07-19-2015, 10:49 AM)Cosmo23 Wrote:  Ree, is there some topic you see where the understanding/perspective differs massively or is it more subtle? Or do you think female/male seekers work on different topics at all. I'm curious :-)

Ken Wilber calls the female/male perspectives or paths as Eros and Agape,. e.g., feminine being 'love until it hurts' and masculine being 'face the wall and meditate'. The approach is different, and depending upon your own f/m balance and distortions, you may pull one or to the other side or both. It's not only particular topic but a general feel of forum. To take the histrionic and hysterical women bias - as Tanner said there's been males in past who created a whole lot of drama, and sure, for biased folks they may perceive more females creating drama and call it fact. To me, the response from forum seems cold and dismissive. This is a personal perspective w/ my own distortion included. There' a time and place for using both perspectives (and yes, there are certainly males here who espouse a strong feminine energy + balance), depending on context of situation. Understandable how this forum became drama-aversive and more on that safe, intellectual side. Maintaining a sort of set rhythm and tone might help w/ the stability of forum but it creates a set pattern that now makes it bit more chaotic for new types of interaction to occur, e.g., highly emotive interactions vs. intellectualized interactions... or going away from appreciating diverse approaches to life to more 'tell me the answer' type approach. Either way of interacting is fine, until it's heavily leaning towards one or other. It's unfortunate that Jeremy could find only 2 females in this forum's history, who provides what seems to be his personal preferred style of interaction. Whether on forum to crack jokes, to play out own internal distortions, to complain, to take a stance, to praise, to share personal experience, to give expert advice, to understand, to challenge... they all have value w/in the broad boundaries as specified by guidelines of forum. With new people these values seem to change. And perhaps that is why members leave, and that's fine. This forum ought to flow in the way it flows... some alternate perspectives may be helpful or not. 
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07-19-2015, 01:51 PM,
#16
RE: [split] "balance of female/male perspectives"
(07-18-2015, 08:02 PM)Farseer Wrote:  Not really, I just find it strange that Jeremy is mentioning irrational, emotionally reactive women when in my experience I've seen more guys get upset it seems.

I don't have an issue either way, I can work with both rational and irrational modes of thought.

I never noticed that there was any tendency for either men or women to be more reactive here, when I even know whether someone is male or female. I agree with Farseer that I can work with rational or emotional energies. Immaturity on the other hand is difficult to deal with.

I think the climate here has changed and evolved as life does. What use is it to pine for what has been? I don't say that because things are "well" always, or that things are meant to be as they are and better things are ahead, or one time is better than another; I say this because to be in the moment of what is is the only place of any power. Otherwise the power is given away to be stuck in the past or to be thrown away into a phantom future. That is not to say there is anything wrong with visions or dreaming. To hold a vision while being in the present can be thought of as bridging linear time, and very right-brained, and within the concept of traditional female/male roles the female aspect. But to want to be elsewhere entirely is to not be in acceptance of what is and disempowering (I know this well as I struggle with it).

There is a lot of judgment that goes on here. Of course, this goes on everywhere in 3D. I do not think reactive natures can be relegated to female entities, or those with dominant female energies. Everyone reacts at something. The mitigating factor is more a person's ability to deal with their triggers, which mostly comes from maturity (and this does not equate with age in my mind). Or perhaps it might be said that self-centeredness is the mitigating factor when conflicts cannot be managed in a way that allows everyone to be heard. 

Bring4th is like a garden of fertile soil, with weeds and various plants. Some of those plants attract insects that eat them. Some need a lot of nurturing. Others grow on their own. But all need the soil. Some really, really interesting members have left, which I can't say hasn't made me feel as Ree does. But to stay in that mindset does not serve me. I look to the opportunities presented to me in the moment. 
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07-19-2015, 02:36 PM, (This post was last modified: 07-19-2015, 02:46 PM by ree.)
#17
RE: [split] "balance of female/male perspectives"
It's a personal preference though. Not saying we should live in the past but sharing personal perspective on personal experience, whether it may be true/not true or relevant/irrelevant for others. 

(07-19-2015, 08:58 AM)Nicholas Wrote:  If more male members were balanced in this way (as you seem to be) I wonder if more female members exist? Or is it as ree perceives that there is an over intellectual study and the getting to know ourselves through working with our emotions and living/doing catalyst is traded off?
It's a personal bias and perspective. I guess a masculine approach would be to explain and rationalize or analyze the validity of this notion. A feminine approach would just take it is as it is, as just how someone perceives their reality here. The value emphasis on 'feeling' rather than the correctness or incorrectness of someone's perception of events.  If emotions are signposts (bc it's body complex level), and whatever meaning we place on the emotional experience (more mind level stuff) is more about knowing your personal distortions... then whatever emotional meaning we each have around an experience may be explored, right? Intellectualizing and philosophizing our experience does have value and utility, but to believe that it is hierarchically above emotional experiences or meaning-making of emotions is rather inane. That's how I was seeing it. 
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07-19-2015, 02:41 PM,
#18
RE: [split] "balance of female/male perspectives"
If you ask me, I think the fact that there is no longer a unifying concept around which to discuss (2012, harvest) the forum has become more shaped for individuals who have many different focuses. I think part of the current state of the forum is because there is a sort of attempt to grasp a focus. Most of the people who talk about the Ra material are already so familiar that any questions that come up tend to have already been discussed.

I think we need a new focus to unify around.
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07-19-2015, 05:34 PM,
#19
RE: [split] "balance of female/male perspectives"
(07-19-2015, 02:41 PM)Farseer Wrote:  If you ask me, I think the fact that there is no longer a unifying concept around which to discuss (2012, harvest) the forum has become more shaped for individuals who have many different focuses. I think part of the current state of the forum is because there is a sort of attempt to grasp a focus. Most of the people who talk about the Ra material are already so familiar that any questions that come up tend to have already been discussed.

I think we need a new focus to unify around.

That's one solution to the one problem that you've identified. Might very well work. Guess my perspective was more in terms of how we relate to each other, which, maybe people don't see a problems... which means one would choose to participate in what one thinks is best fit for them. If people here are comfortable with this set-up there's no issue and they can take or not take feedback, such as one I offered. 
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07-19-2015, 06:09 PM,
#20
RE: [split] "balance of female/male perspectives"
Well, what do you mean by how we relate to each other?

It occurs to me maybe what people are looking for is more balanced content. For example one of the things I find troubling when I am employed is when a lot of negative reinforcement is used. I see this as paralleling what people mean when say they 'wisdom/intellectual oriented' in that there is a certain criticalness to observations. Whereas with positive reinforcement there is more a case of observing, accepting and praise.

What I have seen as an issue in the workplace as an abundance of critical observation is usually relating to the fact that it is often seen as being only focused on mistakes and this, without any positive balance, begins to be seen as a constant attack and stress builds up daily because of a constant nervousness. This is because people begin to expect only negativity and never compliments, which Is actually incredibly demoralizing.

So, often one of the suggestions has been to start trying to give at least as much positive feedback as negative and to notice good work as often as negative. I feel like this is kind of a reflection of the current state of the forum. We have a lot of sharp, clear wisdom with little room for nonsense but it is becoming somewhat sterile of the positive reinforcement which encourages one to move forward with confidence in interactions. In other words the ground is scattered with egg shells.

Is this what you mean?
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07-19-2015, 06:43 PM,
#21
RE: [split] "balance of female/male perspectives"
I think you draw an interesting analogy Farseer, I can see how this is the case. I also see that maybe there is a callousness that we have acquired as a group due to the collective response to certain personalities. Many people experience an emotional vulnerability on the forums and after discovering the Law of One, and begin to start facing their demons, which sometimes can appear to be everywhere. It can often be weary being a mirror for negative emotions, for all parties. I think the "regulars" have a habit of keeping themselves an arms length from these scenarios, again for the repetitive aspect. That callousness can then be construed as abuse to someone who suffers from feelings of neglect and isolation, and the cycle repeats.
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07-20-2015, 12:08 AM,
#22
RE: [split] "balance of female/male perspectives"
(07-18-2015, 04:13 PM)Jeremy Wrote:  Considering we haven't had the best of luck with many of the feminine energies that have come and go over the passed year or so,  maybe it's a good thing lol. Many had been susceptible to erratic emotional outbursts which eventually caused them to leave either on their own Accord or were banned. We do have some like Jade and Yera who are definitely balanced and much needed here to balance out the masculine energy but to be honest,  I'd rather have none at all compared to the irrational outbursts I encountered by the previous members. 

Because I've never seen an unstable man on this forum. Nope, every single example of histrionic behavior has definitely been those cray cray she devils. Maybe having a penis should become one of the qualifications for membership, to preserve the integrity of this forum.

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07-20-2015, 01:18 AM,
#23
RE: [split] "balance of female/male perspectives"
(07-19-2015, 06:09 PM)Aion Wrote:  Well, what do you mean by how we relate to each other?

It occurs to me maybe what people are looking for is more balanced content. For example one of the things I find troubling when I am employed is when a lot of negative reinforcement is used. I see this as paralleling what people mean when say they 'wisdom/intellectual oriented' in that there is a certain criticalness to observations. Whereas with positive reinforcement there is more a case of observing, accepting and praise.

What I have seen as an issue in the workplace as an abundance of critical observation is usually relating to the fact that it is often seen as being only focused on mistakes and this, without any positive balance, begins to be seen as a constant attack and stress builds up daily because of a constant nervousness. This is because people begin to expect only negativity and never compliments, which Is actually incredibly demoralizing.

So, often one of the suggestions has been to start trying to give at least as much positive feedback as negative and to notice good work as often as negative. I feel like this is kind of a reflection of the current state of the forum. We have a lot of sharp, clear wisdom with little room for nonsense but it is becoming somewhat sterile of the positive reinforcement which encourages one to move forward with confidence in interactions. In other words the ground is scattered with egg shells.

Is this what you mean?

Ya that's one way to look at it. Grounding of any human interaction is being able to understand each other... to situate (ground) our knowledge to our experience so that we understand where other is coming from (aka distortion) & the other may understand where you're coming from. Esp. when material is charging, learning more about others and sharing own reaction & reflection of reaction can foster deeper understanding and acceptance of other self. If a member is out to conquer B4th and be oh highest master of B4th... that would be challenging but we all tried hard to understand, didn't we? Why give him chances and not to others, esp women?

A good example of someone who does this is Nicholas. He and I differ on how we value and understand science, and whatnot.. He lays out what he believes and why, and he doesn't push his own ideas as right or wrong. Nor does he challenge. It is what it is. Whether we agree or not, we understand and share our perspectives. Sorry Nic to idolize you lol. 

Other than that, offering 10 camels, 20 chickens, and 5 llamas to the goddess of female hysteria and histrionics may appease what a member said about raging women on b4th?
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07-20-2015, 01:23 AM,
#24
RE: [split] "balance of female/male perspectives"
It seems like you're talking about specific people without actually saying their names. What I'm confused about is you seem to be expressing that this is the norm on the forum?
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07-20-2015, 01:27 AM,
#25
RE: [split] "balance of female/male perspectives"
I meant Adonai One. Wasn't that obvious? 


No, I'm asking why were we so understanding when things broke out with him and not with say, Splash? 

Is that specific enough?
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07-20-2015, 01:30 AM,
#26
RE: [split] "balance of female/male perspectives"
(07-20-2015, 12:08 AM)Yera Wrote:  
(07-18-2015, 04:13 PM)Jeremy Wrote:  Considering we haven't had the best of luck with many of the feminine energies that have come and go over the passed year or so,  maybe it's a good thing lol. Many had been susceptible to erratic emotional outbursts which eventually caused them to leave either on their own Accord or were banned. We do have some like Jade and Yera who are definitely balanced and much needed here to balance out the masculine energy but to be honest,  I'd rather have none at all compared to the irrational outbursts I encountered by the previous members. 

Because I've never seen an unstable man on this forum. Nope, every single example of histrionic behavior has definitely been those cray cray she devils. Maybe having a penis should become one of the qualifications for membership, to preserve the integrity of this forum.

Rolleyes

That actually might be a good idea, the b4th penis master race.

In the idea of infinity, acceptance of all the potentials the mind can think of is required for a balanced union with what is seen of infinity
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07-20-2015, 01:31 AM, (This post was last modified: 07-20-2015, 01:32 AM by Elros.)
#27
RE: [split] "balance of female/male perspectives"
(07-20-2015, 01:27 AM)ree Wrote:  I meant Adonai One. Wasn't that obvious? 


No, I'm asking why were we so understanding when things broke out with him and not with say, Splash? 

Is that specific enough?

Wasn't Splash/Shawna thing in-between girls though?

I personally think I tried to be understanding with Splash, not sure what understanding means though.

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07-20-2015, 01:33 AM,
#28
RE: [split] "balance of female/male perspectives"
(07-20-2015, 01:27 AM)ree Wrote:  I meant Adonai One. Wasn't that obvious? 


No, I'm asking why were we so understanding when things broke out with him and not with say, Splash? 

Is that specific enough?

Well it just helps to know what you actually mean. That being said, I don't really have an answer since I never really had issues with either of them personally. However, as far as I am aware didn't both of them ultimately choose to leave of their own accord?
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07-20-2015, 01:51 AM, (This post was last modified: 07-20-2015, 01:52 AM by ree.)
#29
RE: [split] "balance of female/male perspectives"
ya sorry I didn't want to summon him lol my own issue. 


Gross generalization but females tend to go w/ fostering interpersonal relationships. This forum was created so wanderers and students of LoO could socialize and to learn from each other. That connotes this is not only a place of wisdom and learn/teach, teach/learn but also to connect. That's all. If people leave bc they feel they cannot be themselves (add: and experience connection) here they do choose that... but they're also saying they ain't feeling the love vibes. Even if rationally it doesn't make sense it is feedback. But if that feedback isn't going to be accepted, oh well. 

Let penis-based membership prevail Wink
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07-20-2015, 02:57 AM,
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RE: [split] "balance of female/male perspectives"
(07-19-2015, 02:36 PM)ree Wrote:  It's a personal preference though. Not saying we should live in the past but sharing personal perspective on personal experience, whether it may be true/not true or relevant/irrelevant for others. 


(07-19-2015, 08:58 AM)Nicholas Wrote:  If more male members were balanced in this way (as you seem to be) I wonder if more female members exist? Or is it as ree perceives that there is an over intellectual study and the getting to know ourselves through working with our emotions and living/doing catalyst is traded off?
It's a personal bias and perspective. I guess a masculine approach would be to explain and rationalize or analyze the validity of this notion. A feminine approach would just take it is as it is, as just how someone perceives their reality here. The value emphasis on 'feeling' rather than the correctness or incorrectness of someone's perception of events.  If emotions are signposts (bc it's body complex level), and whatever meaning we place on the emotional experience (more mind level stuff) is more about knowing your personal distortions... then whatever emotional meaning we each have around an experience may be explored, right? Intellectualizing and philosophizing our experience does have value and utility, but to believe that it is hierarchically above emotional experiences or meaning-making of emotions is rather inane. That's how I was seeing it. 

ya Jeremy n his left brain buddies r all thinking that.  Rolleyes like ooh we're so smart because we act like robots, emotions r for those pesky wimminfolk!
Others dance around in a ring and suppose,
But the True Neutral sits in the middle and knows.
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