[split] "balance of female/male perspectives"
07-20-2015, 06:28 AM, (This post was last modified: 07-20-2015, 06:29 AM by Matt1.)
#31
RE: [split] "balance of female/male perspectives"
In Qabalah you have the left pillar of Severity with Binah or Aima the Divine Mother at the top of this pillar and on the right pillar of mercy you have Chockmah or Abba the Divine Father. The left hand pillar has correspondences that are almost always masculine while being regarded as the feminine polarity. Likewise with the pillar of severity the pillar of mercy is general regarded as being masculine in polarity yet normally has feminine correspondences. Both pillars find balance or equilibrium in the middle pillar, mirroring the need to balance the male/female, female/male polarity as one increasing walks the steps of return until the universal forces of Binah and Chockmah are unified into Kether, finding syntheses in the crystallization and returning into the limitless light.

I always think people forget that every person has a male/female polarity regardless of there biological being. Thus you could be a Female with a stronger pull to male energy or male with a strong pull to the female. The great glyph speaks of balance between the paths and that all polarities are contained within the one being and your self. To give a little more background with the Qabalistic view the sephiroth Hod dealing with thoughts is regarded as feminine and the sephiroth of Netzach dealing with emotions is regarded as being masculine. This seems to generally the opposite view as seen by society and culture, yet it simply shows the mirroring effect. However that being said, all of the separate polarity is quite laughable once you understand that nothing exists outside of your awareness.



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ree
07-20-2015, 07:11 AM,
#32
RE: [split] "balance of female/male perspectives"
(07-20-2015, 01:18 AM)ree Wrote:  Other than that, offering 10 camels, 20 chickens, and 5 llamas to the goddess of female hysteria and histrionics may appease what a member said about raging women on b4th?

I prefer virgins, but chickens and camels are good too, I guess.
Things are not as they seem.
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07-20-2015, 08:17 AM, (This post was last modified: 07-20-2015, 08:19 AM by Elros.)
#33
RE: [split] "balance of female/male perspectives"
They say the war is in between STS and STO but that is all lies. The war is in between male and female energy for dominion over this Universe.

We are winning ladies.

In the idea of infinity, acceptance of all the potentials the mind can think of is required for a balanced union with what is seen of infinity
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07-20-2015, 11:16 AM, (This post was last modified: 07-20-2015, 11:17 AM by Bring4th_Jade. Edit Reason: out=our )
#34
RE: [split] "balance of female/male perspectives"
I see the situation between Adonai and Splash to be very similar, actually - both of them came here and initiated some shadow work, and the rest of us let our bitty demons out to play. I think both were shown a similar spectrum of patience and indifference and annoyance. Did you know, Ree, that Splash was her fourth or fifth account on bring4th? This information colors my reactions with her differently, because many times this poster has "rage-quit" with a lot of anger and spite towards the forums (justified? maybe?) and then later returns, behaves "above it all", and then eventually again participates in their old behavior, which is borderline abusive (Splash has not-so-vaguely threatened my physical safety before). I feel Adonai is on a similar cycle. I'd love to be able to reflect love to those who are showing me hate under all circumstances, as that is the goal we are all aiming for, right? But it is a long trek. I still have trouble sometimes doing this with certain family members. I like bring4th because it's relatively safe "practice", because we all come here accepting the free will choice that we will be working on our spiritual nature. This is it. All the interpersonal catalyst dealing with love and acceptance, this is the spiritual work. We can philosophize and spin yarns all we want, but this is what gets Creation's gears really turning.
There is no magic greater than honest distortion toward love.
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07-20-2015, 11:26 AM,
#35
RE: [split] "balance of female/male perspectives"
Also it is strange, but we are taught there is a hierarchy, and that compassion is below wisdom, but that the perfect meld of the two is above that. But we are also taught that no work can be done in the upper chakras unless the work has been done in the lower chakras. What happens to be a problem is when we see emotionality as a weakness, because just because someone is showing an emotional side doesn't mean they lack wisdom. And just because someone is being wise doesn't mean that they lack emotions. But to perceive that lack/imbalance and then get angry about it is perceiving a lack/imbalance within.

I also think a lot of the "wise ones" have spent a lot of time working on getting over martyr tendencies and see clearly their folly, and then try to suppress that desire to experience martyrdom in others. (Guilty.) But really, the ones who are 4D/martyr energies are often more grounded in this 3D/4D planet than those who try to exhibit more 5D energies. No better/worse, just different ways of being.
There is no magic greater than honest distortion toward love.
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07-20-2015, 11:51 AM,
#36
RE: [split] "balance of female/male perspectives"
In addition to Love and Wisdom one must balance Power.
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07-20-2015, 12:14 PM,
#37
RE: [split] "balance of female/male perspectives"
Quote:87.28 Questioner: Why is the male and the female nature different?
Ra: I am Ra. When the veiling process was accomplished, to the male polarity was attracted the Matrix of the Mind and to the female, the Potentiator of the Mind; to the male the Potentiator of the Body, to the female the Matrix of the Body. May we ask if there are any brief queries before we close this working?
;?

Quote:87.27...
Ra: I am Ra. You are correct in assuming that the energy of which we speak in discussing sexual energy transfers is a form of vibratory bridge between space/time and time/space. Although this distinction is not apart from that which follows, that which follows may shed light upon that basic statement.

Due to the veiling process the energy transferred from male to female is different than that transferred from female to male. Due to the polarity difference of the mind/body/spirit complexes of male and female the male stores physical energy, the female mental and mental/emotional energy. When third-density sexual energy transfer is completed the male will have offered the discharge of physical energy. The female is, thereby, refreshed, having far less physical vitality. At the same time, if you will use this term, the female discharges the efflux of its stored mental and mental/emotional energy, thereby offering inspiration, healing, and blessing to the male which by nature is less vital in this area.

Quote:78.24...
Ra: I am Ra. The purpose of polarity is to develop the potential to do work...

much love
And ill be honest i only read half the posts and got bored sorry dudes
As far as we are aware we are in an infinite creation. There is no counting
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Cosmo23
07-20-2015, 12:58 PM,
#38
RE: [split] "balance of female/male perspectives"
Ya Jade I have read up on Shawnna/Splash's posts on B4th when I talked to Isis about what happened w/ them prior to Splash's exit. Just interesting how people said there was love & compassion here and then questioned her irrationality. She obviously had issues around trust and felt it hard to connect here but response to her was rather cold (from my perspective). There was even a post talking about how there was some hierarchy of wisdom, some more wise than others, which to me was bizarre. We all have unique wisdom and something profound to share, tho it may not be intellectual or "spiritual" enough for others to qualify as such. So then, do we place higher values on certain type of behaviors and understanding over others? That's what trips me here. 

Yera: Virgin males OK?
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07-20-2015, 01:33 PM,
#39
RE: [split] "balance of female/male perspectives"
Whether or not something is "spiritual" enough to be on the forums is a constant catalyst with basically everyone. We all have different little safe boxes we put our spirituality in, and certain things are not acceptable. It's not ideal, of course, and it is good to call it out because it is one of those things we talk about often but still repeat the catalyst.

[Image: spankie_no-homers_zps9495f015.jpg]

Maybe sometimes we're too busy dealing with our own Homers to let the other Homers in.
There is no magic greater than honest distortion toward love.
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07-20-2015, 01:59 PM,
#40
RE: [split] "balance of female/male perspectives"
I remember B4th being inclusive, actually, which is why such feedback from women like Splash and Shawnna of No Homers Club to be interesting. Dunno if that example is the gist of the problem I'm thinking of. I experience the problem as placing value of certain things over others, which is not particularly aligned with my understanding of B4th values.  In addition, opting out of understanding others and fostering connectedness with others. Trevor's comment about being bored kind of highlights this seemingly apathetic or dismissive attitude that makes me think how this forum has shifted. 
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isis
07-20-2015, 02:08 PM,
#41
RE: [split] "balance of female/male perspectives"
but i like Homer.
Others dance around in a ring and suppose,
But the True Neutral sits in the middle and knows.
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07-20-2015, 02:11 PM,
#42
RE: [split] "balance of female/male perspectives"
Funny.




There is an anthro somewhere who needs me and I need them.
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07-20-2015, 02:14 PM,
#43
RE: [split] "balance of female/male perspectives"
I wasn't speaking of the No Homers club meaning specifically referring to certain people not being allowed but agreeing with you Ree that certain ideas aren't allowed, which is silly. I agree that areas of B4 could stand to be more inclusive, but that also allows inclusion for apathy and dismissiveness. People should be allowed to express themselves in the ways they desire, and then deal with the fallout of others reacting to them. Very little can be excluded from the context of catalyst from the Law of One, which is why I love it so. One's apathy can be the catalyst to spur another to be less apathetic, etc, ad infinitum.
There is no magic greater than honest distortion toward love.
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Cosmo23
07-20-2015, 02:21 PM,
#44
RE: [split] "balance of female/male perspectives"
Maybe you misunderstand? Had I disallowed Trevor to experience his boredom (like I have power to do that lol) I would be telling him to shut up. I'm allowed to share my perspective here so I am, as he did. 
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07-20-2015, 02:46 PM,
#45
RE: [split] "balance of female/male perspectives"
Could you define a little more what you mean by 'inclusive', Ree?
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07-20-2015, 03:18 PM,
#46
RE: [split] "balance of female/male perspectives"
(07-20-2015, 02:21 PM)ree Wrote:  Maybe you misunderstand? Had I disallowed Trevor to experience his boredom (like I have power to do that lol) I would be telling him to shut up. I'm allowed to share my perspective here so I am, as he did. 

Maybe I did misunderstand, it seemed to me you were implying a certain "golden days" of the forums that are bygone, and that certain members are less to your taste/pleasure than members from before. Of course you are allowed to share your perspective, I'm maybe just trying to point out that after an absence and return, that maybe it's not the forum that has changed, but yourself? I mean obviously, more likely both, but I've been here a couple years and the forum has seemed pretty steady, save for certain faces leaving and others stepping up to fill their roles, and occasionally the roles remaining empty. I came here soon after "the shift", and could tell there was a noticeable depression across the forums, so maybe the golden days people speak of were when everyone had a collective fantasy that united them (this was postulated by someone else, maybe Tanner?, in a thread recently), and now we're facing the real work now that the shift has begun without an ascension.
There is no magic greater than honest distortion toward love.
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07-20-2015, 03:22 PM,
#47
RE: [split] "balance of female/male perspectives"
(07-20-2015, 02:08 PM)Bluebell Wrote:  but i like Homer.

This is my final form:



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07-20-2015, 03:24 PM, (This post was last modified: 07-20-2015, 04:00 PM by Elros.)
#48
RE: [split] "balance of female/male perspectives"
I think you're all looking at things on the wrong angles.

Sagittariuses are the ones that shouldn't be allowed on the forum, like who the hell wants to hang out with a Sagittarius?



Note to Sagittariuses : No ill intent, my two best friends in real life are Sagittariuses.

In the idea of infinity, acceptance of all the potentials the mind can think of is required for a balanced union with what is seen of infinity
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07-20-2015, 06:43 PM, (This post was last modified: 07-20-2015, 06:48 PM by ree.)
#49
RE: [split] "balance of female/male perspectives"
(07-20-2015, 03:18 PM)Jade Wrote:  
(07-20-2015, 02:21 PM)ree Wrote:  Maybe you misunderstand? Had I disallowed Trevor to experience his boredom (like I have power to do that lol) I would be telling him to shut up. I'm allowed to share my perspective here so I am, as he did. 

Maybe I did misunderstand, it seemed to me you were implying a certain "golden days" of the forums that are bygone, and that certain members are less to your taste/pleasure than members from before. Of course you are allowed to share your perspective, I'm maybe just trying to point out that after an absence and return, that maybe it's not the forum that has changed, but yourself? I mean obviously, more likely both, but I've been here a couple years and the forum has seemed pretty steady, save for certain faces leaving and others stepping up to fill their roles, and occasionally the roles remaining empty. I came here soon after "the shift", and could tell there was a noticeable depression across the forums, so maybe the golden days people speak of were when everyone had a collective fantasy that united them (this was postulated by someone else, maybe Tanner?, in a thread recently), and now we're facing the real work now that the shift has begun without an ascension.

Perception is such an interesting thing... There was more going on, in my memory, not just harvest chat, prior to 12/21/12 and I joined Oct 2012. And, we did argue about gradual/rapid harvest quite a bit and so it wasn't happy woo woo wonderland at all. That didn't seem like our focus tho. But we did have a post 12/21 party in B4th chat that was epic. 

I offered my perspective, feedback, and said it's just not a good fit for me (in previous posts on this thread), not advocating change, just questioning. aka unpacking the problem, as I saw it.. but there are of course multiple perspectives around it.

Good luck w/ real work. 
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07-20-2015, 10:22 PM,
#50
RE: [split] "balance of female/male perspectives"
So is your conclusion that the forum is broken beyond repair for your participation?
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07-20-2015, 11:47 PM,
#51
RE: [split] "balance of female/male perspectives"
(07-20-2015, 10:22 PM)Aion Wrote:  So is your conclusion that the forum is broken beyond repair for your participation?

No. Unless active members feel it's a problem, it's not necessarily an issue that needs a solution. Feedback is given freely w/o expectation. I feel there's no fit with the 'flow' here, so I move on w/ fond memories of a wonderful time here (and to chat lol). There's no pressure to change anything unless that is the direction that active members feel they need to take. Just offering perspective of a personal experience. Thanks for engaging and sharing, I really appreciate that from you guys.
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07-21-2015, 12:36 AM,
#52
RE: [split] "balance of female/male perspectives"
Well I am actually curious about what you would like to see more/less of on the forums. I know you have already made some posts on it but could you maybe encapsulate it for me? You have quite a capacity for intellectual thought yourself and I think I understand the issues you are pointing out, I just am curious what might assist in balancing these issues?

I look at it from the perspective that you are a member of the forum and so that you see an issue (as I'm sure others do) it should be seen as a valid and considerable observation because even if some see it and others don't there isn't supposed to be a bias one way or the other from the board.

I enjoy your input, I too have been feeling the board has had some stagnance to it.
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07-21-2015, 03:49 AM,
#53
RE: [split] "balance of female/male perspectives"
(07-21-2015, 12:36 AM)Aion Wrote:  Well I am actually curious about what you would like to see more/less of on the forums. I know you have already made some posts on it but could you maybe encapsulate it for me? You have quite a capacity for intellectual thought yourself and I think I understand the issues you are pointing out, I just am curious what might assist in balancing these issues?

I look at it from the perspective that you are a member of the forum and so that you see an issue (as I'm sure others do) it should be seen as a valid and considerable observation because even if some see it and others don't there isn't supposed to be a bias one way or the other from the board.

I enjoy your input, I too have been feeling the board has had some stagnance to it.

Thank you Tanner, likewise. Stagnation is v. intersting... what did you experience? 

Brain dumping:

Recognizing the value of every person's unique wisdom & perspective; deepening understanding where other's are coming from (what made other do/think/feel a certain way), esp when there's drama brewing; identifying strengths that the other may build from; unpacking (fleshing out) problems instead of prescribing solutions - better yet let other self come to own solution; sharing own lived-wisdom (life-exprience) so people can take what they want to take out of it; acceptance of others' perspective even when it's disagreeable or unacceptable; 'seeking love within the moment,' 'finding love within truth... including tough-love. 

Female approach is 'love until it hurts' or kind of like 'radical acceptance' thru relating w/ others (described by Ken Wilber)



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07-21-2015, 05:19 AM, (This post was last modified: 07-21-2015, 05:22 AM by Matt1.)
#54
RE: [split] "balance of female/male perspectives"
Love until it hurts sounds like an over-activated green ray that needs blue ray balancing. Likewise the looking at the wall for 8 hours could need some more green ray energy. Both of them sound like exterm cases rather than a balance.



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07-21-2015, 07:03 AM,
#55
RE: [split] "balance of female/male perspectives"
(07-21-2015, 03:49 AM)ree Wrote:  
(07-21-2015, 12:36 AM)Aion Wrote:  Well I am actually curious about what you would like to see more/less of on the forums. I know you have already made some posts on it but could you maybe encapsulate it for me? You have quite a capacity for intellectual thought yourself and I think I understand the issues you are pointing out, I just am curious what might assist in balancing these issues?

I look at it from the perspective that you are a member of the forum and so that you see an issue (as I'm sure others do) it should be seen as a valid and considerable observation because even if some see it and others don't there isn't supposed to be a bias one way or the other from the board.

I enjoy your input, I too have been feeling the board has had some stagnance to it.

Thank you Tanner, likewise. Stagnation is v. intersting... what did you experience? 

Brain dumping:

Recognizing the value of every person's unique wisdom & perspective; deepening understanding where other's are coming from (what made other do/think/feel a certain way), esp when there's drama brewing; identifying strengths that the other may build from; unpacking (fleshing out) problems instead of prescribing solutions - better yet let other self come to own solution; sharing own lived-wisdom (life-exprience) so people can take what they want to take out of it; acceptance of others' perspective even when it's disagreeable or unacceptable; 'seeking love within the moment,' 'finding love within truth... including tough-love. 

Female approach is 'love until it hurts' or kind of like 'radical acceptance' thru relating w/ others (described by Ken Wilber)




Well, that sounds like a good approach too, also understanding that this is not the only way to approach I do see how this type of interaction is somewhat limited on the forum and I get the sense that maybe in the wake of the events of 2012 where everyone was more heart centered there was a kind of grasping towards wisdom because there were a lot of extreme views that surrounded that period of time. I feel like we've gone to the wisdom extreme because it has become a sort of group safety net against 'fantastic' thought which I think may be seen as dangerous.

This is actually very much related to my current experiences on the forums where I have been bursting at the seems in my true identity but constantly feel I need to 'humanize' myself in order to be accepted.

As per the stagnance, it just seems like focus is scattered all over the place. I just generally have a strong sense of 'what are we doing here?'
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07-21-2015, 10:15 AM,
#56
RE: [split] "balance of female/male perspectives"
It is a shame that the collective power of the forums hasn't been harvested towards a common, conscious goal yet. I guess we're not ready. I've seen a couple group meditations attempt to get started without much traction. I still think this is a good way to start, to harmonize a bit more, and try to dedicate our resources towards a pool, because as a group we have a lot of power.

As an alternative, and I'm just throwing this out there, but maybe it's difficult for the board to band together towards a common goal because maybe, as a group, we're not supposed to have one? All of us here know about the Law of One, maybe our real job is to radiate it elsewhere.

Quote:Each of those in this group is striving to use, digest, and diversify the information which we are sending this instrument into the channels of the mind/body/spirit complex without distortion. The few whom you will illuminate by sharing your light are far more than enough reason for the greatest possible effort. To serve one is to serve all. Therefore, we offer the question back to you to state that indeed it is the only activity worth doing: to learn/teach or teach/learn. There is nothing else which is of aid in demonstrating the original thought except your very being, and the distortions that come from the unexplained, inarticulate, or mystery-clad being are many. Thus, to attempt to discern and weave your way through as many group mind/body/spirit distortions as possible among your peoples in the course of your teaching is a very good effort to make. We can speak no more valiantly of your desire to serve.
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07-21-2015, 10:20 AM, (This post was last modified: 07-21-2015, 10:25 AM by Elros.)
#57
RE: [split] "balance of female/male perspectives"
(07-21-2015, 07:03 AM)Aion Wrote:  
(07-21-2015, 03:49 AM)ree Wrote:  
(07-21-2015, 12:36 AM)Aion Wrote:  Well I am actually curious about what you would like to see more/less of on the forums. I know you have already made some posts on it but could you maybe encapsulate it for me? You have quite a capacity for intellectual thought yourself and I think I understand the issues you are pointing out, I just am curious what might assist in balancing these issues?

I look at it from the perspective that you are a member of the forum and so that you see an issue (as I'm sure others do) it should be seen as a valid and considerable observation because even if some see it and others don't there isn't supposed to be a bias one way or the other from the board.

I enjoy your input, I too have been feeling the board has had some stagnance to it.

Thank you Tanner, likewise. Stagnation is v. intersting... what did you experience? 

Brain dumping:

Recognizing the value of every person's unique wisdom & perspective; deepening understanding where other's are coming from (what made other do/think/feel a certain way), esp when there's drama brewing; identifying strengths that the other may build from; unpacking (fleshing out) problems instead of prescribing solutions - better yet let other self come to own solution; sharing own lived-wisdom (life-exprience) so people can take what they want to take out of it; acceptance of others' perspective even when it's disagreeable or unacceptable; 'seeking love within the moment,' 'finding love within truth... including tough-love. 

Female approach is 'love until it hurts' or kind of like 'radical acceptance' thru relating w/ others (described by Ken Wilber)




Well, that sounds like a good approach too, also understanding that this is not the only way to approach I do see how this type of interaction is somewhat limited on the forum and I get the sense that maybe in the wake of the events of 2012 where everyone was more heart centered there was a kind of grasping towards wisdom because there were a lot of extreme views that surrounded that period of time. I feel like we've gone to the wisdom extreme because it has become a sort of group safety net against 'fantastic' thought which I think may be seen as dangerous.

This is actually very much related to my current experiences on the forums where I have been bursting at the seems in my true identity but constantly feel I need to 'humanize' myself in order to be accepted.

As per the stagnance, it just seems like focus is scattered all over the place. I just generally have a strong sense of 'what are we doing here?'

As of now, mostly interbalancing ourselves. Also being tested in Love which is part of it.

In the idea of infinity, acceptance of all the potentials the mind can think of is required for a balanced union with what is seen of infinity
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07-21-2015, 01:43 PM,
#58
RE: [split] "balance of female/male perspectives"
(07-21-2015, 10:15 AM)Jade Wrote:  As an alternative, and I'm just throwing this out there, but maybe it's difficult for the board to band together towards a common goal because maybe, as a group, we're not supposed to have one? All of us here know about the Law of One, maybe our real job is to radiate it elsewhere.

I feel that there is less tolerance and more judgment amongst the members here than there used to be. I hesitate to say this, as I know it could be misunderstood easily. I will try to be clear. Being tolerant does not mean there is no debate. It does not mean there is agreement. It does mean that others' opinions are heard and allowed to be expressed no matter how much disagreement there is. Much of this is a feeling, so it is difficult to be clear on this concept. It takes much open-mindedness to hear all and be heard by all, even when there is no agreement, yet there can be recognition of concepts to be considered.

B4 feels more to me now like a forum of individuals, who have formed cliques and private parties. No problem there—I don't feel left out. But I feel there is actually more separation now. Inclusiveness isn't necessarily togetherness. One may not want to be a part of a friendship circle here, but one may want to participate in a forum that doesn't push him or her out. Some may be thinking, but Diana is one of those militant vegans in her own clique who judges everyone who eats meat. This is untrue. And I'm not even vegan. This is an illustration of my point. I have been labeled and pushed out because I don't align with others' views. I'm not whining here, because I don't need anyone's approval. I am trying to be clear about how things seem to have changed here regarding tolerance.

There have always been heated debates here, and I think that is GOOD. Tolerance is allowing subjects to be canvassed and flushed out. It is often very difficult to communicate clearly especially on complex or touchy subjects. 

B4 will change and go where it will. I am not trying to make it what it was. And what it was was not perfect either. I just wanted to be honest. I feel that B4 has increasingly been a more difficult venue in which to express honestly. This is an opportunity, for me, to balance my own awarenesses and behaviors and grow. So I am not complaining that things were better in the past; I am only trying to express how I feel about B4 honestly, without skirting the issues and devolving to the circular logic that all is well no matter what. Though of course I understand the higher concept of "all is well no matter what," the problem that can derive from this idea is that it causes stagnation. And stagnant waters become toxic. 
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07-21-2015, 02:43 PM,
#59
RE: [split] "balance of female/male perspectives"
I can't help but feel there are certain members you (and ree) are thinking of when you are mentioning things being separate and there being judgement. This is what's confusing for me is I am trying to get more to the heart of the issue but all I've gotten is vague notions of separation and non-acceptance, but whom?

Like it seems you're trying to resolve conflict while also trying to avoid it. It's clear that there are currently members on the board that are inspiring these thoughts. I don't really fit in to a 'clique', I just rampantly talk to everyone so I am trying to understand more where this is coming from.

Who are these judging, non-inclusive members?
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Parsons, Spaced
07-21-2015, 03:14 PM,
#60
RE: [split] "balance of female/male perspectives"
(07-21-2015, 02:43 PM)Aion Wrote:  I can't help but feel there are certain members you (and ree) are thinking of when you are mentioning things being separate and there being judgement. This is what's confusing for me is I am trying to get more to the heart of the issue but all I've gotten is vague notions of separation and non-acceptance, but whom?

Like it seems you're trying to resolve conflict while also trying to avoid it. It's clear that there are currently members on the board that are inspiring these thoughts. I don't really fit in to a 'clique', I just rampantly talk to everyone so I am trying to understand more where this is coming from.

Who are these judging, non-inclusive members?

I'm sorry if I seem vague; it's not intentional. Though asking me to name names is not appropriate. Neither is it something I want to do, as my perceptions are not the authority. All I have are opinions and feelings and perceptions, which I was trying to convey in an honest manner. As I said, it is difficult to explain. I probably shouldn't have tried. I knew I would have a hard time 1) making myself clear, and 2) not offending anyone.

I don't feel you are part of any clique (though you seem to have worshippers Tongue). 

Just dismiss my words if they have no meaning. I posted it for me mostly, as I am working on balancing honesty with STO intentions. I don't want to control anyone else.

I don't know how to be any clearer than I was. Inclusiveness is based on tolerance. I do think this has to do with a level of maturity (not age), and self-confidence. I guess I would say that there seems to be more members here now working on their own "stuff" rather than members who are here to explore esoteric concepts and the infinite universe. We are always working on ourselves, but this difference I see is a distinction of perception on my part. Perhaps this is because when something is new and budding, like B4, it begins with a lot of intention that has a certain momentum. Then perhaps life inserts itself with all of it's challenges. I realize this is vague also. But it's the best I can do at this time.
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