[split] the question of study
08-04-2015, 06:16 PM,
#31
RE: [split] the question of study
(08-04-2015, 04:48 PM)The_Tired_Philosopher Wrote:  I'm even more sorry that no one is open to change here.  I don't know what more to say anymore.  I've offered my informed opinionated suggestions.  

Regarding the above bolded: This is simply not true. Perhaps you could word this better?

I don't think you have given the moderators enough time to even digest everything the members have said. And do you suppose that your opinions are the only ones with any merit, and that we should all just do what you say? I don't imagine you think this, but your words are coming across as sanctimonious. It's not easy to communicate things such as frustration clearly when not face to face. If we are looking someone in the eyes, we see more than just words on a screen, feel more for the other, and take more care in expressing.

Resistance causes blockages. It is what it is here. Instead of fighting the situation, perhaps a more proactive approach would work better.
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08-04-2015, 07:34 PM, (This post was last modified: 08-04-2015, 08:06 PM by JustLikeYou.)
#32
RE: [split] the question of study
I haven't yet read this entire thread. I'm responding to the part that was addressed to me. If I have further comments, I will return to post them.

Jade Wrote:JustLikeYou, you yourself say you only hang out in the forums that have a higher caliber of study. Is this the purpose of the Law of One? Did Ra say, 'go out and find those just like you, and mingle with them and them only, and change the world'? I don't remember that part. A healthy yellow-ray complex will accept itself and others as is, and then try to radiate their balance and acceptance to others in dark places. This is the point. To be the light in the dark. Not to gradually eliminate all the darkness so that only those who are light shine through, but to illumine the shadows into the light of day. I think what you said is similar to "Well, I don't go to those scary parts of town because I'm afraid I'll be robbed." Why not go to those scary places and pray and heal, instead of avoiding them?

Jade, I go where I am called and speak to whom I feel drawn to speak. I don't avoid the other forums; I'm just not very interested. What can I say? I didn't mean for my commentary to be taken as suggestions. Where I was making suggestions, I used the phrase "I suggest."

As for the darkness in the light, you might recall that I strongly suggested introducing NSFW content into the forum. This isn't dark enough for you?

The ultimate point I was driving at is that the culture of Bring4th is what it is because of two things: 1. the impact of L/L, and 2. the way the forum is managed. The Ra Material was, per Ra, "Advanced" material. As such, it ought to be attracting advanced seekers. Some of the seekers I meet here fall neatly into that category. The question I was raising is this: whom does L/L want to attract to Bring4th? If they want advanced seekers, then conditions need to be met that attract those seekers. As I said, I would love to see our forum filled with members who are trustworthy enough to be moderators.

As things stand, though, the forum appears to strongly attract the young and lost. If that is who L/L wants to serve, then it is as it ought to be. The reason the forums attract these persons, though, is precisely a consequence of the two factors above. The L/L material attracts both the advanced seeker and the doe-eyed seeker---each for different reasons. This dichotomy we can see in Don's questioning.

My perspective is that L/L is at a crossroads here. Do we want to step further down the path of philosophy or further down the path of alien sci-fi stories? Don had great difficulty choosing, though he ultimately found discipline. Now what will L/L (both the organization and its community) choose?

For what it's worth, I think the mystery school idea is out of the question. Maybe one day in the future L/L can have a mystery school, but it won't be at Bring4th.

Edit: I've finished reading the thread. A couple more responses to Jade:


Jade Wrote:I definitely agree that it's worrisome that not everyone can find their level of accessibility, but that just means this place isn't for everyone.

That's exactly the point that myself and others were trying to make. The place isn't for everyone, so we need to be mindful of who we are making the place for: mindful of who is coming, who is going, and whether we would like those groups to be different than they are.

Quote:I think there is plenty of deep study here, but others seem to think that deep study cannot coexist with casual study so I was offering a solution to their problem.

Indeed, it cannot. That is also the reason to have separate forums for such things. I find consistently that I can measure the seriousness of my interlocutors by their distractability. This is not a judgment of value but of seeking. I remain hopeful, but my experience consistently moves me into narrower interaction at this forum. I don't want it to be that way. It just is.

Quote:a complete overhaul asking to have moderators to behave in a more controlling/stifling manner is where we disagree on the mission of this forum.

The guidelines are as they are. If a member does not abide by them, then it is the moderator's duty to intervene. Banter and tangents are perfectly acceptable in a casual setting, but in a focused setting, they completely ruin the focus. That was why we intervened in the archetypes forum: its focus was endangered by undisciplined discourse. In the process, I learned some valuable moderation lessons, which is why I appreciate Tired Philosopher's suggestions: they are on-point. You can't really go back and fix a forum that is messy because you end up doctoring people's posts. It feels like an invasion of privacy. But you can prevent it from getting so messy.

In this context, moderation is not an act of control, but an act of discipline. Where there is no discipline, there can be no improvement.

If you recall from my responses to the questionnaire, I endorsed the proliferation of moderators to combat the very attitude you have about them: that they are an authority to whose apparently arbitrary actions you must submit. That's not what a healthy STO environment looks like. A healthy STO environment is a round table of core-group members who jointly make decisions about the community. Unless there is an open path to the core-group (moderator-hood or even admin-hood) that anyone can traverse by showing themselves dedicated and trustworthy, Bring4th will never be a round table.
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08-04-2015, 08:42 PM,
#33
RE: [split] the question of study
(08-04-2015, 07:34 PM)JustLikeYou Wrote:  As things stand, though, the forum appears to strongly attract the young and lost. If that is who L/L wants to serve, then it is as it ought to be. The reason the forums attract these persons, though, is precisely a consequence of the two factors above. The L/L material attracts both the advanced seeker and the doe-eyed seeker---each for different reasons. This dichotomy we can see in Don's questioning.

Are not doe-eyed seekers, potential advanced seekers?


I'd love to participate more to in depth studies but am limited to where I currently am on my path for example. Lots of things to process and integrate into self first to which this forum has been very helpful with so far.

About the attraction, I always had the impression it happens on a much more metaphysical level, in that more awakened souls attract souls that unconsciously seek awakening.

In the idea of infinity, acceptance of all the potentials the mind can think of is required for a balanced union with what is seen of infinity
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08-04-2015, 08:45 PM,
#34
RE: [split] the question of study
How can an awake person seek awakening unconsciously? Doesn't it become conscious?

There is an anthro somewhere who needs me and I need them.
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08-04-2015, 09:17 PM, (This post was last modified: 08-04-2015, 09:26 PM by Elros.)
#35
RE: [split] the question of study
(08-04-2015, 08:45 PM)IndigoGeminiWolf Wrote:  How can an awake person seek awakening unconsciously? Doesn't it become conscious?

I said that awakened souls attract souls that unconsciously seek to awaken. So they're not yet awakened, just unawarely seeking their right catalyst to awaken and remember themselves.

B4th in my view is like a time/space light in the dark where many lightworkers do/will emerge.

In the idea of infinity, acceptance of all the potentials the mind can think of is required for a balanced union with what is seen of infinity
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08-04-2015, 09:21 PM, (This post was last modified: 08-04-2015, 09:24 PM by Elros.)
#36
RE: [split] the question of study
In my view the duality expressed in this thread is that of Wisdom and Love, which is well as it is a somewhat general and important theme within this Octave.

To me, considering that we are in 3rd density moving toward 4th density, the more important focus should be Love. Not that Wisdom is not important, it surely is in all ways.

In the idea of infinity, acceptance of all the potentials the mind can think of is required for a balanced union with what is seen of infinity
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08-04-2015, 10:58 PM,
#37
RE: [split] the question of study
Elros Tar-Minyatur Wrote:Are not doe-eyed seekers, potential advanced seekers?

They are indeed, just as elementary school students are potential college students. We do not append elementary schools to colleges, though, because the needs of the two are dramatically different.

I'm not saying that we ought to abandon the group I've called "doe-eyed". I'm saying that the needs and inclinations of this group are very different from those of the other group the Ra Material attracts. What strikes me, however, is that the Ra Material is not especially unique to a doe-eyed seeker. This seeker does not yet appreciate the subtleties that make the Ra Material so very different from nearly all other channelled material. To the advanced seeker, however, the Ra Material is precious. It is a gold mine. It is these seekers that L/L is in a unique position to assist.

A seeker who has not even read the Ra Material probably will not show any special attachment to this community in particular. She might feel equally at home in any other New Age community, but has incidentally found her way here. Of course, there may also be deeper forces at play (soul contracts and the like), but this dilettante does not have the eyes to see what makes the Ra Material precious. In this very sense, she is doe-eyed. While L/L is capable of serving her needs as a spiritual seeker, L/L is not uniquely capable of doing so.

Ra encourages us to serve by "seeking the heart of self." This phrase is crucial: it tells us that our greatest service can only be rendered when we are as honest with ourselves as possible, as authentic as possible. At our most honest, we are strange, unique. We are niche. When we remain true to this heart of self, we find ourselves serving those in our own very peculiar niche. We find that what makes us unique is what the lion's share of our energy is to be spent upon.

Quote:B4th in my view is like a time/space light in the dark where many lightworkers do/will emerge.

Is Bring4th really a place for sleepwalkers to awaken? There is far too much "alternative" content discussed here for B4 to appeal to a sleepwalker. This forum is, in fact, a community of the awakened, as nearly all New Age communities intend to be. What makes this community unique is that it happens to possess a very strong philosophical foundation and lack a glory-seeking leader. My attitude is that we would be best served by clustering around these two great virtues so that our community can become uniquely polished and honed by them. While it is not for us to judge what a seeker may need at any given time, the newly awakened seeker is generally not prepared for a message as finely tuned as Ra's. As I said above, often any channel will do. These newly awakened seekers are simply not in a position to appreciate L/L's offering

Quote:In my view the duality expressed in this thread is that of Wisdom and Love

Good point. I agree.

Quote:I'd love to participate more to in depth studies but am limited to where I currently am on my path for example. Lots of things to process and integrate into self first to which this forum has been very helpful with so far.

I think you might misunderstand what I mean by "doe-eyed" and what I mean by "serious". I'm trying to draw the boundary between those who see the jewel in the Ra Material and those who just want something New Agey. It's not an easy distinction to draw because each case is different. I wouldn't make Bring4th a place unfriendly to those who are not yet ready to study the archetypes. I would, however, make the archetype forum such a place. Hopefully I have. There exists a place on B4 for doe-eyed types to congregate if they so choose. It is currently called "Olio."

In truth, it is wise for us to welcome in the appropriate fashion any visitor who comes our way. That includes the doe-eyed. Why could they not interact with us also? But we should also bar the way forward to those unready to enter. That means moderators must protect dedicated study areas by enforcing guidelines. This will foster a culture in which it is understood that you don't post in Strictly unless you're actually talking about a specific topic in the Ra Material.
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08-04-2015, 11:20 PM,
#38
RE: [split] the question of study
JustLikeYou, that's why I never want to go in the archetypes forum. It feels like your little fortress whom you will batter anyone away who isn't operating at your level. I have little interest in such a cult-like approach.
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08-04-2015, 11:25 PM, (This post was last modified: 08-04-2015, 11:27 PM by JustLikeYou.)
#39
RE: [split] the question of study
Ouch. I can stop posting if members prefer. I have a lot to say on the subject, but I don't mean to drown others out.

Additionally, I could very well be incorrect about my assessments about this forum. I only get to have one perspective.
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08-04-2015, 11:26 PM,
#40
RE: [split] the question of study
It'd be well to note, I left this place initially for similar reasons that Ra remarked departing Egypt.  My beliefs were put in a light of hypocrisy and nothing more I could say would be of help, this thread highlights that I was right to leave initially.  Can't say I really want to stay either.  There's a quote on my Calendar that I stumbled upon that notes my purpose for being so...'sanctimonious' or pushy here though.  It felt synchronistic...  Thank you Thich Naht Hahn.
Thich Naht Hahn Wrote:"We're not just trying to run away from suffering, we want more than that, we want to transform our own suffering and be free in order to help other people transform their suffering."

This forum brought me a new level of suffering, I call Hell 1408 style (or the Helliverse to lighten it up).  If I can help people avoid that reality, I will.  Simple as that.  Thusly I am here arguing that this forum allows for dangerous misapplication of the Philosophy it touts, and has taken absolutely no responsibility in trying to retain some form of handling of this Philosophy they are throwing out there to many who come with an open empathic mind (doe eyed or otherwise) to consider the various ways the philosophy is distorted in belief that they are seeking 'new interpretations' in search of 'the truth' somewhat hidden between the lines or intuited/insighted upon.
As I said, all that brought me to was a clear 'system' of how Hell would operate.  Illusion of Free Will once realized that one is forced to do certain things.  Incarnate after being caught up in Earth's karmic cycles, being forced to 'learn lessons' or else 'painful mental and physical catalyst will abound' and when in turmoil and despair opting out (suicide), being forced to replay the same life over and over nonstop without any consideration for the being.  Causing all manners of Laws and Metaphysics to take on a more sinister hidden agenda of making the Philosophy sound like a hell presented as heaven to get you to go along with it even as you suffer seemingly endlessly for reasons and choices you don't even remember making or performing.

Don't blame that f'ed up distorted interpretation on my accepting it, that's blaming the effect, I'm not like the rest of this society that sits around wondering the horror and madness and accepting its causes and blaming the effect.  I left this place to re-find my self, and the same Philosophy I believed to be Hell packaged as Heaven is what I returned to with the openmind to reconnect with my true beliefs I stumbled upon when first discovering this material.  I sorted through a Distorted version of the Hellish Philosophy of the Law of One within my mind without judgment to find the actual truth within it once more.  So forgive me if I feel confident in my discernment of this Philosophy, I had to reconnect with it while it appeared to be the darkest blackest thing In My Life.

All while trying to piece back together a broken mentality caused by rapid polarization from Living Love (yay not knowing that rapid kundalini rising could cause mental issues), losing my mind in my mind (if that...makes sense...), and having to make sense of the madness all alone, again, only now while shattered.

As I said, my last mental inventory from meditating on my shattered personality was a total of 16,807 separate pieces that I had to put back together.  I found every piece of myself, from a murderer to a rapist to a martyr and a consensual rapee...To a hero and a villain to a genocidal maniac and a crazy insanely loving being, all of which had even MORE separate pieces to them, creating a very interesting system of fractal infinite being inside of myself that I doubt I'll ever properly explore in this life time...  I've gone through a lot, I no longer have the patience or tolerance I did at the beginning of this year when I was living this Philosophy... (God how I miss those times yet now don't.)  I am much more easily frustrated and angered by how closedminded people are towards my concepts and ideas.  And it's honestly a part of me I'm going to accept before trying to change, to make sense of why I don't have the openmind to retain patience, but to still consider ideas even while frustrated with them (For comic relief, I raise my left eye brow VERY high when reading something attempting to be openminded while in frustration.  I look incredulous and have had a few people ask what the hell I was reading while waiting at the automechanic reading this thread.  Calling myself incredulous isn't my words btw.)

I do owe this forum much thanks and love, I am not in a position to properly provide the love I feel this forum deserves.  In retrospect, Carla spoke of herself as a fixer, when she has people come to her with problems she wants to fix them.  I'm a bit more proactive in that the questionnaire came out, I moved the day after witnessing it to provide my feedback because I perceive that a few others have perceived the same problems I have, so I'm offering my proposed fixes.  I spent a lot of thought on them too.

Which as I said, was met with resistance in a place supposed to be openminded.  I don't know why I have to argue it, I was hoping someone would ask me to clarify or specify or anything but argue it...

I find that Ra was a powerful role model, and think that Justlikeyou nailed it spot on remarking Discipline.

But I really do believe that this forum can be handled in a manner that allows for All, not some.  In the effect of All there will be hard times for the moderation in going forward in a manner that is not hypocritical, it is why I say that Ra is a powerful role model in their openminded ways of going about the various distortions and misunderstandings and corrections.  And while I'm not saying we can accurately mimic a Social Memory Complex with access to Events via Time 'manipulation' (?) or Spacial 'witnessing' nor who have a seeming different flow to their existence (do they actually 'take time' to respond??  Or can they 'take their time' formulating together the appropriate way of answering?) but in all instances they retain so much love towards all.

I'd say that the Mod's for the most part actually follow this and abide by this, and showcase love very powerfully.  But being human and this being their construct, they aren't tied to such, and should be told that they have the freedom to attempt to manage their forum instead of allowing it to fall in disarray and inactivity even if in the name of Living Love.  I also understand it takes time, I'm just the impatient one who see's that months pass and things continue to die.  That doesn't mean we should just allow and accept continually those who trash hurt this place with their preferred method of how it should be run.  Who use the very Philosophy here to attack others, that's not how it's meant to be used, at least I don't think that's the intent in this place.  And while I could list several members who have done such, I won't, because they already know who they are.

I just don't feel like arguing or defending myself in a place I once hoped to be accepted in to any further. Where there is a Will there is a Way.

We have the Way of One, that allows for complex but intuitive solutions to most problems, for reconciling out solutions in a time where solutions are needed on Earth.

Can't this forum be for everyone with proper organization, design, setup, maintenance, and discipline/joviality? The Law of One isn't for everyone, but this forum is for Everyone that the Law of One is for, is that asking too much?
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08-04-2015, 11:31 PM, (This post was last modified: 08-04-2015, 11:37 PM by Aion.)
#41
RE: [split] the question of study
JustLikeYou: Well, you said yourself you have tried to make it unfriendly for those 'not ready', but it doesn't really feel friendly to anyone. I have recently been doing a lot of archetype study and I haven't gotten the slightest desire to go in that forum.

However, I would like to say that I'm mentioning this because I know you're passionate about the archetypes and I'm sure you would like more individuals who are serious in their studies to share in that forum, but honestly the energy I feel when I go in that forum is just so rigid I instantly lose any inspiration to share.

This isn't meant to be a criticism, I just want to express that as an 'advanced seeker' it doesn't feel particularly open to me either. I would like it to be and I think you would too, so I am telling you this to give you some insight as to why that forum is so often inactive.

Perhaps your 'control' efforts have been a tad too meticulous?

Honestly, it's less about your words and more the vibe you give off. I understand it, it is protective because it is important to you, but it's not important only to you.

Really, might not even be you per se but the energy that forum has been invested with which always feels somewhat defensive.
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08-04-2015, 11:37 PM,
#42
RE: [split] the question of study
(08-04-2015, 11:20 PM)Aion Wrote:  JustLikeYou, that's why I never want to go in the archetypes forum. It feels like your little fortress whom you will batter anyone away who isn't operating at your level. I have little interest in such a cult-like approach.

Not to defend anyone, but the Archetype forum was so heavily inactive that I'd effectively call it dead.  I tried to pull in some conversation and study with my post on Squares but honestly the forum was next to untouched when I left.  I think there was less than 2 dozen, maybe 3 dozen posts in that forum during my time here to when I initially left, a span of months.

To be fair though, the archetypes are very hard to cross-reference and make a sensible mental system out of unless one takes time to study it like a course.  I found much of the posts by Justlikeyou insightful and helpful as I studied the Archetypes for a while ever since The Magician Archetype moved me to new heights when I was rapidly polarizing and living love.  I never did interact with Justlikeyou though so I can't make any proper judgments on remarks of battery and cults.  I just hope no punch was passed around.

...Surely its not...Too soon?  -failing at comic relief-
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08-04-2015, 11:40 PM, (This post was last modified: 08-04-2015, 11:43 PM by JustLikeYou.)
#43
RE: [split] the question of study
It is criticism: please at least call it what it is, but I am quite receptive to criticism. The product is more important than my hurt feelings---which aren't all that hurt anyway.

I have no intention to impose rigidity. I was trying to impose a kind of gravity. Understand that when the forum was conceived, I was asked to help keep it organized, but I was given no direct power to do so, nor had I ever done any moderating before. Essentially, I went from an archetype enthusiast to a long-distance forum moderator. My initial response was complete obliviousness. Eventually Adonai One filled the forum with throw-away threads and I felt powerless to do anything about it because I wasn't invested with any power. For what it's worth, I was invited from the get-go to make any requests I liked to a proper moderator, but this felt like a wall of bureaucracy to me, so I never did. I didn't realize at the time that my indirect authority would leave me feeling so impotent to handle situations that might arise.

It was only once things got unbearable that the moderator team decided to make me a moderator so I could properly handle the forum. We decided on a set of guidelines by which it would operate and it was left to my judgment to implement those guidelines. I also had to re-integrate Adonai One's broken threads. That task still isn't finished...

In trying to salvage those threads, I was faced with many difficult decisions about what to do with posts that were completely irrelevant to any identifiable conversation---especially since all of the initial posts had been deleted. In the process, I learned that I didn't like editing people's posts, even though I didn't see how to avoid it.

Since that fiasco, I've not actually had to do any moderating. This is the context in which I find myself baffled that I am perceived as a rigid authority.
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08-04-2015, 11:40 PM,
#44
RE: [split] the question of study
Zing!

I really wasn't trying to pick on or single out JustLikeYou, since I quite like him as a person. I was just trying to touch upon my own side of why that forum doesn't see much interaction.
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08-04-2015, 11:42 PM,
#45
RE: [split] the question of study
(08-04-2015, 11:40 PM)JustLikeYou Wrote:  It is criticism: please at least call it what it is, but I am quite receptive to criticism. The product is more important than my hurt feelings---which aren't all that hurt anyway.

I have no intention to impose rigidity. I was trying to impose a kind of gravity. Understand that when the forum was conceived, I was asked to help keep it organized, but I was given no direct power to do so, nor had I ever done any moderating before. Essentially, I went from an archetype enthusiast to a long-distance forum moderator. My initial response was complete obliviousness. Eventually Adonai One filled the forum with throw-away threads and I felt powerless to do anything about it because I wasn't invested with any power.

It was only once things got unbearable that the moderator team decided to make me a moderator so I could properly handle the forum. We decided on a set of guidelines by which it would operate and it was left to my judgment to implement those guidelines. I also had to re-integrate Adonai One's broken threads. That task still isn't finished...

In trying to salvage those threads, I was faced with many difficult decisions about what to do with posts that were completely irrelevant to any identifiable conversation---especially since all of the initial posts had been deleted. In the process, I learned that I didn't like editing people's posts, even though I didn't see how to avoid it.

Since that fiasco, I've not actually had to do any moderating. This is the context in which I find myself baffled that I am perceived as a rigid authority.

It could maybe be that the residual energy of that 'fiasco' still lingers around that forum. That's why I was trying to say it may not actually be you at all, but the way that forum has been invested.
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08-04-2015, 11:47 PM,
#46
RE: [split] the question of study
I think I will maybe make an attempt to help organize the energy surrounding that forum, it could just be that there is some thought-form stuck to it that is deterring people.
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08-04-2015, 11:51 PM,
#47
RE: [split] the question of study
@Tired Philosopher, I think the arcane nature of the subject is cause for the forum's inactivity. I knew it would be a slow forum from the get-go or else I wouldn't have accepted responsibility for it.

My intention at the outset was to (a) create a resource for future students and (b) help spark a dialogue about the subject. I think (a) has been successful despite inactivity, while (b) has been very slow work indeed. My own efforts have been drawn beyond the text itself, which is why I used my website as a platform rather than B4.

@Aion, it is interesting that you referred to the forum as my "fortress". That was the kind of verbiage Adonai One started using when I asked him to clean up his threads. It's amazing what one very vocal member can accomplish in the group mind.
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08-04-2015, 11:56 PM,
#48
RE: [split] the question of study
Well, as I am considering it now I think I am seeing the thought-form that is stuck there and I think the thought-form might in some way have been stuck to you too. I think it's easy to associate that energy with you because you are 'behind' it, as in, you are the entity most present in the forum but I am more leaning that the thought-form is stuck to the forum itself and you just happen to be caught in its image.
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08-05-2015, 01:30 AM,
#49
RE: [split] the question of study
Could I just point out that attributing thought-forms is not a valid way to dodge responsibility?  Everyone get's 'greeted' and while this forum might be overrun with various levels and types of energetic entities, it's creation and maintenance is ultimately at the hands of the physical beings in control of it and participating in it, and nothing more or less.

I too have let myself get out of hand, I would accept being called wrong and pushy and various names, but I wouldn't blame my behavior on being greeted, more my lack of control of my more intense emotional outputs.  Similarly, people shouldn't be blaming such and such for the member's actions...  If the Archetype forum scared you with it's rigid ways, you need to figure out why you're scared of rigidity, not blame another for it.

Similarly, I worry my suggestions can all be nullified by my poor behavior, and while I won't say you're being a hypocrite, Aion, I will say that blaming the energetic entity...Well, if I were that entity I'd look at you and be like, 'Me?  You're the one who choose to do as you did.'

Maybe I'm wrong.  But many people try to use greetings as an excuse just as I use sarcasm as my excuse to avoid being dishonest.  When in actuality, my honesty is just poor wisdom on my part...Greetings can be nice reminders that we need to remain faithful.

I still see :44 and 144 across various places in various ways, I've taken it to mean 'Have Faith' and 'Practice your Spirituality' since I do desire to return to those days of bliss, if not for selfish reasons, but because I was crazy intuitive and insightful and open at the time and helpful to many up until more powerful catalyst began occurring due to my rapid development.

I still am baffled when I come across an old friend, and they see how vastly I've changed and they seem to have changed minimally.

...That might be another area to address, the apparent energetic state of this forum.  Could anyone do a direct look into that energetic state of this forum and see if there is anything amiss or some kind of oddity or issues that might be contributing to the passive overall situation of the forum being inactive or poorly maintained? -he asked trying not to sound like he's blaming it on those entities-
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Aion
08-05-2015, 01:43 AM,
#50
RE: [split] the question of study
Well, I see the thought-form as being reflected in my own consciousness according to the emotions and bias. Hence in dispelling the thought-form I will have to do exactly as you say - observe my state in relationships between myself and what I perceive in the thought-form and find its balance in its equal opposite. In this case flexibility would be the equal opposite of rigidity.

So I find the flexibility and rigidity indwelling in my consciousness and accept them both. I am then able to release the emotional charge I hold towards the thought-form and perceive more correctly the now slightly less distorted reality.

Thank you for this chance to explain my process to myself a little more clearly.
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08-05-2015, 01:44 AM,
#51
RE: [split] the question of study
(08-05-2015, 01:30 AM)The_Tired_Philosopher Wrote:  ...That might be another area to address, the apparent energetic state of this forum.  Could anyone do a direct look into that energetic state of this forum and see if there is anything amiss or some kind of oddity or issues that might be contributing to the passive overall situation of the forum being inactive or poorly maintained? -he asked trying not to sound like he's blaming it on those entities-

I did... but no one believed me, so maybe I am just not credible.
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Bring4th_Jade, Elros
08-05-2015, 01:28 PM, (This post was last modified: 08-05-2015, 01:51 PM by Bring4th_Jade.)
#52
RE: [split] the question of study
We have many paradoxes here to solve. The first one being that, there are many complaints that the forums are dead, as a whole and specifically the archetype forums. But then the solution is the create a higher level of entry for posts, or to curate posts more? The archetype forums have always been quiet, and Adonai made an attempt to liven it up a bit by creating more energy and posts, but that was immediately rejected ("Eventually Adonai One filled the forum with throw-away threads"). I can tell you that they were not throwaway to him. So that's the problem, most of these judgements on character, behavior, study levels, etc are completely arbitrary because nothing is in stasis. Everyone needs to start the learning somewhere. You can say it's Kindergarten vs. Higher Education, but that analogy is still poor because it implies a linear growth of knowledge.

Quote:While it is not for us to judge what a seeker may need at any given time, the newly awakened seeker is generally not prepared for a message as finely tuned as Ra's. As I said above, often any channel will do. These newly awakened seekers are simply not in a position to appreciate L/L's offering

I find this line suspect, too. Who defines awakened? And how can you make such a blanket statement about people? The Ra material IS what woke me up. I mean I had a couple months leading up to finding it but when I found it, that was it. In fact, I think that's more of the dichotomy - people find the material and "get it", or people find the material, want to get it, but don't yet, and either just don't read it at all or struggle with it immensely. You say L/L Research is in the unique position to help the people in the first group, but I find my calling being more towards the latter, personally. Those who are somewhat aware but need a little help to take the leap. Not those who are already engrossed in the subject and on their way to indigo harvest. Again, I'm happy to allot space for both, I'm not advocating against that, I just see little value in changing Bring4th to cater specifically to those who are already LoO theologians.

Quote:@Aion, it is interesting that you referred to the forum as my "fortress". That was the kind of verbiage Adonai One started using when I asked him to clean up his threads. It's amazing what one very vocal member can accomplish in the group mind.

Is it one vocal member polluting the group mind or the group mind speaking a clear opinion through multiple members? Just asking, it could be construed either way. I've read the archetype forum and have yet to find a rigorous study in them, and personally never got the "fortress" vibe (or even remember Adonai saying that) but I can see where that opinion can come from when you use sentences like:

Quote:In truth, it is wise for us to welcome in the appropriate fashion any visitor who comes our way. That includes the doe-eyed. Why could they not interact with us also? But we should also bar the way forward to those unready to enter. That means moderators must protect dedicated study areas by enforcing guidelines.

[Image: 06-Fortress-1024x768.jpg]

Of course, it is chicken vs egg (did Adonai "pollute" the group mind and you're just reflecting that pollution or is the genesis of the idea of a fortress internal?)

In short, again, I think too much we analogise these forums for our spirituality or seeking. We are afraid that the forum is becoming will become something which we desire not. I'm afraid of watching to go down into a fundamentalist vibe, because when we put so much value on a book ("To the advanced seeker, however, the Ra Material is precious."; "And not many appreciate seeing their beloved philosophy sloppily handled") it can get a bit preachy. I'm not disagreeing with these statements, but when we start saying that others can only worship in the way we worship or hold the material at the same level that we do to participate, the vibe shifts and starts to become exclusionary. I would venture a guess that more people leave because the vibe on the forums is "exclusionary" than any other reason.
There is no magic greater than honest distortion toward love.
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08-05-2015, 01:43 PM,
#53
RE: [split] the question of study
I can agree with that, its why I was hoping the forum could evolve or adapt or even just change temporarily to trial new setups but ultimately:
A forum that accepts all, a place for all.  The feathery and dense, positive and negative, innocent and aware.

Or...I mean by 'all' as those this Philosophy is for.  Not the entirety of Humanity.

I would say barring people does go against the forum's feel but that's why i tried to compromise with suggesting guidance or maintenance. A STO forum can cater all in my opinion.
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08-05-2015, 02:06 PM,
#54
RE: [split] the question of study
Quote:As things stand, though, the forum appears to strongly attract the young and lost.

I think this is true, and that the "doe-eyed" seekers will be attracted to this pace because of the level of seriousness and interaction here. I also think it derives from the idea of the wanderer, the person who doesn't fit in; many many people feel they are misfits in our societies. I think we should welcome all (within reason; I don't refer to trollers or the like) with open arms. But casual banter and joking and the lighter—or petulant—sides of things in my opinion should stay generally in Treehugger's where they belong. I don't mean this literally, I mean it as the intention of the poster. If a person wants to play around or feels compelled to stir up trouble to no reasonable end, go to the appropriate spot. It's the job of moderation to draw the (guide)lines in the sand. 

I'm making it sound black and white, but I know it isn't. All I can say is that those here for serious study only, you must be used to this by now—living in a world of chaos and little understanding. And any "mystery school" or the like will have some level of dogma. I say let's be free and open, but with healthy boundaries.
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Nicholas
08-05-2015, 04:37 PM,
#55
RE: [split] the question of study
Jade, I could make a point-by-point response, but I feel like you're hunting for ways to misinterpret. If you want to see me as elitist, have at it.
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08-06-2015, 01:32 AM,
#56
RE: [split] the question of study
(08-04-2015, 11:47 PM)Aion Wrote:  I think I will maybe make an attempt to help organize the energy surrounding that forum, it could just be that there is some thought-form stuck to it that is deterring people.

This is just driving me crazy, so forgive the (off topic) outburst:

Why in the hell don't we do a complete overhaul on this egregore/thoughtform for this entire community?? Don't get me wrong, I am all for adjusting that forum specifically. But  I feel like if we smooth out a few of the rough edges, we could really have something amazing (possibly the beginnings of a social memory complex?).




RE: This thread in general

I'm pretty on the fence about this topic. I used to be a similar mindset of JLY and T_T_P, but my approach to dealing with the chaos of this forum was to accept it rather than restructure it. Tangents used to drive me absolutely bananas but now I find some extremely valuable gems in some of them and don't mind them for the most part. Then again, I do find myself spending less and less time here and sometimes skim threads rather than carefully reading entire posts. I just don't know if I should attribute that to the forum content somehow going downhill or my ever changing Self. Perhaps it is both.

I suppose I would like there to be a place for serious study but also don't like the idea of an icy-sterile section of the forums. I suppose if there was a separate section of the forums for that, you could go into the Treehouse section to blow off steam. Then again, I don't like the idea of censoring (very brief, appropriate) playful banter.
-==-
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08-06-2015, 01:58 AM,
#57
RE: [split] the question of study
(08-05-2015, 04:37 PM)JustLikeYou Wrote:  Jade, I could make a point-by-point response, but I feel like you're hunting for ways to misinterpret. If you want to see me as elitist, have at it.

Okay. But to be fair, I never said you were elitist, the only time I can recall/find using that word was saying that The Tired Philosopher's post was full of elitism. I specifically said I never got the fortress vibe from you, but found it funny that you used the turn of phrase "bar the entry". 
There is no magic greater than honest distortion toward love.
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08-06-2015, 11:45 AM,
#58
RE: [split] the question of study
(08-06-2015, 01:32 AM)Parsons Wrote:  
(08-04-2015, 11:47 PM)Aion Wrote:  I think I will maybe make an attempt to help organize the energy surrounding that forum, it could just be that there is some thought-form stuck to it that is deterring people.

This is just driving me crazy, so forgive the (off topic) outburst:

Why in the hell don't we do a complete overhaul on this egregore/thoughtform for this entire community?? Don't get me wrong, I am all for adjusting that forum specifically. But  I feel like if we smooth out a few of the rough edges, we could really have something amazing (possibly the beginnings of a social memory complex?).





RE: This thread in general

I'm pretty on the fence about this topic. I used to be a similar mindset of JLY and T_T_P, but my approach to dealing with the chaos of this forum was to accept it rather than restructure it. Tangents used to drive me absolutely bananas but now I find some extremely valuable gems in some of them and don't mind them for the most part. Then again, I do find myself spending less and less time here and sometimes skim threads rather than carefully reading entire posts. I just don't know if I should attribute that to the forum content somehow going downhill or my ever changing Self. Perhaps it is both.

I suppose I would like there to be a place for serious study but also don't like the idea of an icy-sterile section of the forums. I suppose if there was a separate section of the forums for that, you could go into the Treehouse section to blow off steam. Then again, I don't like the idea of censoring (very brief, appropriate) playful banter.

The challenge is that to affect the whole community it needs to be more than just me. Last time I tried to work on these things I was accused of 'witch-hunting'.
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08-06-2015, 12:47 PM, (This post was last modified: 08-06-2015, 12:49 PM by JustLikeYou.)
#59
RE: [split] the question of study
Parsons Wrote:I suppose I would like there to be a place for serious study but also don't like the idea of an icy-sterile section of the forums. I suppose if there was a separate section of the forums for that, you could go into the Treehouse section to blow off steam. Then again, I don't like the idea of censoring (very brief, appropriate) playful banter.

Totally with you on this one. I don't endorse sterile discussion, even if my rhetoric and word choice gives that impression.

I have learned to define maturity as a steady movement in the direction of subtlety. Those who cannot appreciate subtlety will, generally speaking, self-segregate from those who do. In the case of wine enthusiasts, for example, those who do not have the palette to appreciate the difference between a $50 bottle of Bordeaux and a $5 bottle of table wine will not buy the Bordeaux. Similarly, those who do have the palette would be disgusted by the table wine.

In our case, subtlety comes in a different form. When I used the phrase "bar the way" in reference to a dedicated study forum, I meant it energetically. What I have in mind is holding the discussion to a particular standard of subtlety such that even the jokes and tangents are more subtle than you would find in casual discussion. For instance, sometimes I'll be reading a serious philosophical work next to my fiancée and I'll read a joke in the text. Because I found it amusing, I share it with my fiancée, only to discover that it's not very funny outside the context of the book itself. Only once I speak these jokes out loud do I discover that they weren't that funny; rather, they were only funny in the very specific context of the book I was reading. The book I was reading fostered a mental climate in me that both demanded and rewarded an appreciation for subtlety. This is what I mean by "bar the way." Tangents and comedy are appropriate, but they must take on a subtler shape so that instead of distracting from the topic at hand, they contribute. A play on words or an absurd mental image can be just the tonic necessary for keeping us interested when discussion starts to seem dry.

If we are careful enough about establishing the culture at the outset, members can self-censor. I don't like the idea of censorship any more than you do. What little bit of censorship I did really drove this home for me. I don't, however, see any way to encourage a self-censoring environment without entrusting members with responsibility, which is why I endorsed moderator proliferation. When we see this community as a garden we all tend, we will all become much more careful about how we treat it. Even so, I am willing to admit that the experiment I suggest may not be appropriate to B4, but must exist somewhere else.

Jade Wrote:I'm not disagreeing with these statements, but when we start saying that others can only worship in the way we worship or hold the material at the same level that we do to participate, the vibe shifts and starts to become exclusionary.

Jade, thanks for easing off the defensive pedal.

Every community that does not extend itself to the entire universe is exclusive. There is no evil in exclusivity, so long as you are conscious about whom you are excluding and why. Parents exclude children from activities all the time, but we don't protest their motives in doing so.

I don't think anyone here wants to legislate modes of worship. Rather, we are trying to point out that what makes this community unique is its attachment to confederation philosophy. We would be doing a disservice to those who come for this unique service if we did not prioritize them over those who are seeking less specifically. Even Ra admits that their message is not for most, and that they prefer not to speak through a channel unless that channel is a narrow band.

I, for example, am skilled in archetype psychology and spiritual counsel. These two strengths combined afford me a unique capacity for service: I can help people find the way forward by helping them identify within themselves the archetypal signatures calling for attention and outlining for them the general significance of the signatures at play. In order to make better use of this skill, I took a life coaching course. What I discovered in the process is that people who want life coaches do not necessarily want to dig as deeply as I can help them to do. I could work with people who just want to develop a successful business or hone their physical prowess. But if I did so, that would take away the time and energy I have to spend on those who would be more suitable to my unique skill set. Thus, I abandoned the prospect of working with anyone but a spiritual seeker. I do not meet people and demand that they be spiritual seekers; rather, I only go out of my way for persons who already are seekers. Yes, my service is exclusionary, but it must necessarily be so in order for me to perform my greatest possible service. As T_T_P said, you can't be everything to everyone.

Parsons Wrote:Why in the hell don't we do a complete overhaul on this egregore/thoughtform for this entire community?? Don't get me wrong, I am all for adjusting that forum specifically. But  I feel like if we smooth out a few of the rough edges, we could really have something amazing (possibly the beginnings of a social memory complex?).

This is not an unreasonable question. It was with this thought in mind that I posted my own survey. If B4 will never be more than it is, so be it. But I think its time for us to ask ourselves what kind of community we would like to have.

Aion Wrote:The challenge is that to affect the whole community it needs to be more than just me. Last time I tried to work on these things I was accused of 'witch-hunting'.

This is manifestly true.
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Parsons, sunnysideup
08-06-2015, 01:34 PM,
#60
RE: [split] the question of study
(08-06-2015, 12:47 PM)JustLikeYou Wrote:  
Parsons Wrote:I suppose I would like there to be a place for serious study but also don't like the idea of an icy-sterile section of the forums. I suppose if there was a separate section of the forums for that, you could go into the Treehouse section to blow off steam. Then again, I don't like the idea of censoring (very brief, appropriate) playful banter.

Totally with you on this one. I don't endorse sterile discussion, even if my rhetoric and word choice gives that impression.

...

I don't think anyone here wants to legislate modes of worship. Rather, we are trying to point out that what makes this community unique is its attachment to confederation philosophy. We would be doing a disservice to those who come for this unique service if we did not prioritize them over those who are seeking less specifically. Even Ra admits that their message is not for most, and that they prefer not to speak through a channel unless that channel is a narrow band.

I, for example, am skilled in archetype psychology and spiritual counsel. These two strengths combined afford me a unique capacity for service: I can help people find the way forward by helping them identify within themselves the archetypal signatures calling for attention and outlining for them the general significance of the signatures at play. In order to make better use of this skill, I took a life coaching course. What I discovered in the process is that people who want life coaches do not necessarily want to dig as deeply as I can help them to do. I could work with people who just want to develop a successful business or hone their physical prowess. But if I did so, that would take away the time and energy I have to spend on those who would be more suitable to my unique skill set. Thus, I abandoned the prospect of working with anyone but a spiritual seeker. I do not meet people and demand that they be spiritual seekers; rather, I only go out of my way for persons who already are seekers. Yes, my service is exclusionary, but it must necessarily be so in order for me to perform my greatest possible service. As T_T_P said, you can't be everything to everyone.



Parsons Wrote:Why in the hell don't we do a complete overhaul on this egregore/thoughtform for this entire community?? Don't get me wrong, I am all for adjusting that forum specifically. But  I feel like if we smooth out a few of the rough edges, we could really have something amazing (possibly the beginnings of a social memory complex?).

This is not an unreasonable question. It was with this thought in mind that I posted my own survey. If B4 will never be more than it is, so be it. But I think its time for us to ask ourselves what kind of community we would like to have.



Aion Wrote:The challenge is that to affect the whole community it needs to be more than just me. Last time I tried to work on these things I was accused of 'witch-hunting'.

This is manifestly true.

I like all of this and feel you are all on to something here. And it is subtle, and complicated. I have tried and tried and tried to keep threads on point. And like Parsons, I don'i want icy sterile (though like JLY, I may come off that way). But as has been pointed out, forward progress/motion is preferable. I do feel that things have gotten too loose here, and yet aside from moderation did not know how to remedy it while leaving freedom in place and not employing censorship.

I would like to bring up one question about of why we exist as an Internet entity: Are we here to help heal others, ourselves, or are we here to study, or all of the above? What I mean by that is it has been mentioned that B4 attracts the lost. There have been some here who are in pain and confusion (this is not to say that everyone doesn't have pain), and as a group we have accommodated out-of-line behaviors from those who were really struggling. (This is where I feel moderation should have stepped in more.) I don't mind accommodating some of this as why not help others along the way? But the extent to which it got in some cases just made this whole place feel distracting, and not worth participating in when flippant, inconsiderate posts were flying.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this? I find it extremely perplexing. And ignoring things only goes so far.
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