The "withheld" topic
04-15-2016, 07:21 PM, (This post was last modified: 04-15-2016, 07:32 PM by Rolci.)
#1
The "withheld" topic
I have found many times in the Ra Material instances when Ra withhold info. I will list them here as I re-read. And I do not mean the occasions when intermediate material is required or knowledge they themselves do not plumb. I mean the ones withheld for obscure reasons. I find these particularly intriguing, trying to guess what's going on with them, and it would be great if we were to discuss them here. The first one from session 16:

Questioner: Well, roughly how many total planets in this galaxy of stars that we’re in have aware life regardless of density?

Ra: I am Ra. Approximately six seven, oh oh oh, oh oh oh [67,000,000].

Questioner: Can you tell me what percentage of those are third, fourth, fifth, sixth density, etc.? Roughly, very roughly.

Ra: I am Ra. A percentage seventeen for first density, a percentage twenty for second density, a percentage twenty-seven for third density, a percentage sixteen for fourth density, a percentage six for fifth density. The other information must be withheld. The free will of your future is not making this available. We shall speak on one item. There is a fairly large percentage, approximately thirty-five percent of the intelligent planets, which do not fit in the percentiles. These mysteries are of sixth and seventh density and are not available for our speaking.

I'd love to make a start on this one, but I'm pretty much clueless. A good start would be to figure out what "intelligent planets" means, and then what "do not fit the percentiles" could be all about. And 35% of what exactly are we talking about again? Also I thought I had an idea what the "free will of your future" may refer to, but then Don was obviously asking about current percentages, which is what the given figures apply to, obviously, ignoring the deeper truth of the illusory nature of time. So no idea on that one either. Also notice that Don was asking about "aware life", which then he further specifies in his second question an understood by him to be 3rd D on, yet the reply includes 1-2nd. And is Ra's "intelligent" planets" then synonymous with Don's "aware life", even though they ignored that bit initially, or is that supposed to be some different categorization? And finally, what could be the mysteries of 6-7th D? Apart from that we do know about them from materials already channeled. Up for the guessing!
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04-16-2016, 02:57 AM,
#2
RE: The "withheld" topic
Those percentages make no sense whatsoever. Why would third density, the shortest by several magnitudes, be the most plentiful (27%)?
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04-16-2016, 09:06 AM,
#3
RE: The "withheld" topic
I think this is an interesting thing to ponder, but it is also good to remember that numbers were one of Ra's weak spots - they were often cited incorrectly and only if Don noticed were they corrected. So it's good to take these "numbers" with a grain of salt, anyway, so speculating their possible meaning might be difficult in this context.
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04-16-2016, 09:50 AM,
#4
RE: The "withheld" topic
Quote:Also I thought I had an idea what the "free will of your future" may refer to, but then Don was obviously asking about current percentages, which is what the given figures apply to, obviously, ignoring the deeper truth of the illusory nature of time. So no idea on that one either. ... And finally, what could be the mysteries of 6-7th D?

While I don't think it was ever said outright, I've gotten the impression that 6D+ entitles have largely transcended time and singular dimensionalities. (Maybe 5D dabbles in this as well?) So I would tend to think those "mysteries" largely deal with things like coming to embrace one's existence as unified across many simultaneous dimensions\outcomes. As such, I'd also tend to think that 6D+ planets are likewise existing in many states at once and, therefore, couldn't be counted in purely percentage-based terms.

I couldn't even begin to guess how exactly that ties into "the free will of our future," except maybe the idea that Ra doesn't want to unduly influence our own "future" 6D+ forms who have already (from their point of view) embraced our current existences as part of their gestalt being-ness. Changing us would change them.

As far as the percentages go, I don't find the high numbers of 3D worlds to be that surprising. Remember, the high levels of catalyst make them popular as "training grounds," so to speak, and some things Ra said implies that they're highly popular places to incarnate. His comments about those nearing polarization being given "priority" for Earth incarnations, for example, would only make sense if there was a high need for such lives. So I'd guess -at the risk of being reductionist- it's something of a "supply and demand" thing. Lots of entities want 3D incarnations, so there are lots of 3D planets to accommodate them.

(That said, since Ra was only giving "current day" numbers, for all we know they fluctuate according to cycles and the answer would be radically different in a million years.)

Time will tell.  It always does.
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04-16-2016, 09:52 AM,
#5
RE: The "withheld" topic
Oh, and just as an aside, you did notice there's already a category for questions Ra refused to answer, right? Smile

Time will tell.  It always does.
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04-16-2016, 10:11 AM,
#6
RE: The "withheld" topic
It is a perplexing topic.  I will offer my thoughts:

The reason why 3rd density planets are the most plentiful is because 3rd density is "the axis upon which the creation turns."  It is basically the coalescing point of the spirit complex, or the beginning of mind/body waking up to its conscious, yet veiled, relationship with the cosmos.  Also, I believe that all planets are seeded with an ultimate disposition or design towards orienting themselves towards the eventual development of 3rd density free will beings since it is this density which potentiates the oppositely charged forces of polarized consciousness.  We might even think of it as the "duality or illusion generator of the cosmos".

3rd density planets are unique in the fact that 3rd density is the first density where we are consciously and truly, for the first time, individuals, seemingly cut off from the One.  "This is the only plane of forgetting."

There is also the fact that as one progresses into higher densities there is a sort of "consolidation" of consciousness, where beings choose to live with other beings whom they feel a great kinship with or vibrational resonance.  Hence, less planets because many beings are choosing to be closer together, collecting about specifically attuned spheres.  They have less desire to be "spread out" among the stars, and instead desire to collect into societal complexes which resonate with their distortions.  We might even say that 3rd density is the lowest point of consolidation of consciousness out of all the densities, greatly owing to its higher percentage of planets.  Meaning, it is the density where we are the "most spread out".  In 1st and 2nd density there is no concept of self apart from the creation, thus regardless of how they may look to us, the "simulation of separation" at those vibrational levels is not as pure as it is to us.

The percentages given could also have to do with the age of our particular galaxy, and the percentages might be completely different given another galaxy at a different stage of development.  But then again, different planets will develop at different rates.

And as for the planets that do not fit into the percentiles I think that they are representation of what Ra has described as "portions of the Logos".

"The particular Logos of your major galaxy has used a large portion of Its coalesced material to reflect the beingness of the Creator. In this way there is much of your galactic system which does not have the progression of which you speak but dwells spiritually as a portion of the Logos.

APeacefulWarriors points are also good ones.

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04-16-2016, 02:49 PM, (This post was last modified: 04-16-2016, 03:03 PM by Verum Occultum.)
#7
RE: The "withheld" topic
Just a wild guess: the planets that do not fit into the percentages, and as anagogy said, spiritual portions of the Logos, could partially be a collection of epic stories, fairytales, fantasies and other things that we (and others within the Logos) have projected outwards as highly refined thought forms. Take for example the card game "Magic: The Gathering". Now, imagine "playing" cards by actually projecting environments back and forth between the other 'player', which is of course, the self. We have mana (the idea and use of magick), cards, and descriptions to the cards. Each card is its own dimension and therefore may be deepened or zoomed into with infinite subtlety if there is a desire to do so. By playing the game or walking a part of a greatly cherished story with other selves, you would then be exploring your deeper nature as the Creator and the Creation. It astounds me that if Ra did not make a error in the percentages, thirty-five percents is a very high number. That could very well cover, as a guess, largely portions of t/s and portions of s/t that are used to portray these highly wondrous, transient dimensions. The explorations and learning about the transient dimensions beyond polarity could be a portion of the remaining material for the Self to become One with the consciousness of the Creator - that is, One with All.
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04-16-2016, 09:17 PM, (This post was last modified: 04-16-2016, 09:17 PM by Stranger.)
#8
RE: The "withheld" topic
Here's a snippet of a discussion I had with my guides on this topic.

Quote:These planets you refer to are not planets as such; they are planetary bodies floating freely in space, like comets but much, much larger and capable of sustaining life on their surfaces across the seven densities of this octave, that is the truth. Their populations are not evolving because they are fully evolved from the beginning of Creation, that is the truth. They are the Guardians of the Universe, co-creators, but on a larger sale. Their charges are galaxies in the sense that you understand them, vast agglomerations of stars and planets too numerous to describe. These guardians' job or task is to ensure the smooth progression of life across all densities in their areas of care, that is the truth. They do not come from the next octave, they were simply created by the Father in order to help him to run the show, so to speak.

Me: Ra stated that there 35% of all inhabited planets belong to the category which they declined to describe. Are all of these planets of the type you described to me?

Yes, they are.

Me: How is it possible or necessary that over 1/3 of all planets hosting intelligent life are inhabited by guardians?

It is not only possible, Stranger, but it is indeed the case. Much work remains to be done each cosmic day in order to maintain the Universe in its apparently steady state, that is the truth. Many there are whose lives are focused on specific, apparently minor details which nonetheless contribute to maintaining the Great Cosmic Order, that is the truth.

Additional details: these "planets" orbit the galactic center in giant elliptical orbits, and would not be visible to us - not only because they do not emit light, but for other, intentional reasons.

Me: Why do they need to live on planets?

Why not? Everyone needs a home, and these planets are theirs. However, as you surmised, their metaphysical reach extends throughout the domain of care corresponding to each, and is not localized in time and space in the way that a normal evolving entity's reach would be thus localized. That is the truth.
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04-16-2016, 10:30 PM,
#9
RE: The "withheld" topic
I agree with most of what has been said by anagogy; so I second that.

To answer what you were asking about free will, I frame my thoughts differently. There is no veil outside of 3D, so I don't see it being possible to interfere with the free will of anyone besides Don (and other 3D entities who may read the material). So here is my reasoning based on that (which you are free to accept, reject, or ignore): 

The reason I have always found that quote to be tantalizing is because the free will issue would only apply to Don and anyone who would read the Ra Material, which is a very limited pool of people in 3D. In that specific example (and in general), Ra was withholding information because it might change the thought processes and/or actions of Don (et al), thus infringing on their free will. I am guessing in that case, it was something that Don had not questioned about at all in the past. So it would be introducing the information 'cold', if you will; without Don asking any previous questions.

I think it is likely that what that 35% is referring to is the "Logos of your major galaxy has used a large portion of Its coalesced material to reflect the beingness of the Creator". However, I still think there is a strong possibility it was a new concept that was never queried about by Don. While I find that to be very interesting, it would mean it would be nearly impossible ever answer what Ra was referring to because it would be a concept we would be completely unfamiliar with.
-==-
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04-17-2016, 01:14 PM,
#10
RE: The "withheld" topic
Thank all who have offered their thoughts on why third density appears to have the highest percentage of planets. Very interesting indeed.
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The mind must be opened like a door. The key is silence. - Ra
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04-17-2016, 05:55 PM,
#11
RE: The "withheld" topic
Hello Dear Rolci,

(04-15-2016, 07:21 PM)Rolci Wrote:  Ra: I am Ra. A percentage seventeen for first density, a percentage twenty for second density, a percentage twenty-seven for third density, a percentage sixteen for fourth density, a percentage six for fifth density. The other information must be withheld. The free will of your future is not making this available. We shall speak on one item. There is a fairly large percentage, approximately thirty-five percent of the intelligent planets, which do not fit in the percentiles. These mysteries are of sixth and seventh density and are not available for our speaking.

Firstly, I think there are quite astonishing consequences regarding the answer about first three densities.
1st – 17%
2nd – 20%
3rd – 27%
- as I understand it, there are planets with third density Entities where there’s no one of the previous densities (!) So, there may be planets with third density Beings where there are no animals nor trees. On the second thought is it possible to exist on the planet, where there’s no first density at all? What animals would eat? (for example). But than again – planets with first density Beings are less than planets with second density Beings on it. This is truly confusing. I understand that there may be third density beings so technologically highly evolved that they could live on “dead rock” planet and cover their needs with the technology. But again – why would they, if they were so highly advanced? What kind of life would that be?
For me personally those numbers are very strange.

Second issue – when You add up all the percentages given for 1 – 5 densities, You get 86%. It would suggest that 6 and 7 density lies within 14%. But than there’s information of 35% of “intelligent planets” – BUT this value do not correspond with previously given number of 67 000 000 – I think it is the percentage of ALL planets within Our Galaxy. Since 67 millions is only a fraction of all planets within this Galaxy, none of those “35% intelligent planets” may be included within given number of planets with densities being present on them.

Furthermore, Ra said that “These are mysteries of a sixth and seventh densities” – therefore I think that both of those densities are included in both:
1. 14% left
2. 35% of “intelligent planets”.

I realize that there are things that We are simply unable to comprehend and We are filtering this information through Our limited possibilities of understanding / categorization. I think that there are “Beings” that would never be acknowledge by Us as “Beings” – they differ from Us so much (from Our understanding of what “Being” is) that they are too “alien” for Us to even perceive them / to include their nature in Our thought-process.

Thought about “percentile take” – to express something in such manner, things/objects/Beings must be separate. Maybe sixth and seventh densities are interwoven in such way that they are “crossing/merging Them-Selves” – to express it within Our, three-dimensional category – something may be up, down, on the left, right, in front of, behind something – or – one may cross / merge with another. In Our reality this last case would suggest “modification” of the crossing/merging objects/Beings – maybe in highest densities it is not the case.

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04-18-2016, 08:15 AM, (This post was last modified: 04-18-2016, 10:54 AM by Rolci.)
#12
RE: The "withheld" topic
(04-16-2016, 09:52 AM)APeacefulWarrior Wrote:  Oh, and just as an aside, you did notice there's already a category for questions Ra refused to answer, right?  Smile

Yeah sure, however that is pretty much a useless collection that contains mostly comments on transient stuff refused. The majority is law of confusion stuff like

24.20 Questioner: The only other question that went with that is: was there a crashed spaceship and are there small bodies now stored in our military installations?

or

25.3 Questioner: The third question that she requested to be asked was: How may Don and Jim help to revitalize me?

What are we supposed to do with those?

I was thinking more of all the good stuff that is central but shrouded in mystery to the degree that even Ra refuse to comment, that was left out from that "collection". Things like:

84.21 Questioner: Is there any way to tell which ray the transfer was for an individual after the experience? Is there any way for the individual to tell in which particular ray the transfer occurred?

Ra: I am Ra. There is only a subjective yardstick or measure of such. If the energies have flowed so that love is made whole, green-ray transfer has taken place. If, by the same entities’ exchange, greater ease in communication and greater sight has been experienced, the energy has been refined to the blue-ray energy center. If the polarized entities, by this same energy transfer experience, find that the faculties of will and faith have been stimulated, not for a brief while but for a great duration of what you call time, you may perceive the indigo-ray transfer. We may not speak of the violet-ray transfer except to note that it is an opening to the gateway of intelligent infinity. Indeed, the indigo-ray transfer is also this but, shall we say, the veil has not yet been lifted.

All we get is a note. The details? Apparently they "may not speak". Won't even state the reason. Mysteries like this and the nature of 6-7D planets deserve, I believe, some pondering and discussion at the least, beyond just appearing on an incomplete list of things Ra refused to comment on. Let's find the real gems and let's discuss!

(04-16-2016, 10:30 PM)Parsons Wrote:  I agree with most of what has been said by anagogy; so I second that.

To answer what you were asking about free will, I frame my thoughts differently. There is no veil outside of 3D...


I do not have a comment as of this moment as to the accuracy of that statement based on the LOO material, the very reason that I am re-reading it at the moment (and that I consequently started this topic) is that that's exactly what I used to think, until I read Jade's post in

http://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=4420&page=2

and the relevant part of her post goes like this:


(02-18-2016, 10:50 AM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote:  
(02-18-2016, 06:24 AM)Rolci Wrote:  So if the soul doesn't realize that the life it would plan already exists, how would you say the veil had been removed? If the soul knows fully again who they are and what ultimate reality is, how much sense does it take to plan what already exists?? So where is the eternal moment of now in all that?

There is still some veiling in the densities after ours. And when one dies, they go to 3rd density time/space, which definitely is still veiled but less so than space/time. 

So it would make sense to clear this up, even in its own topic, so we all can be clear about such a basic thing as where is how much veil, from 1-7D, broken down into in-incarnation and between-incarnations portions. I have just finished book 1 and am yet to reach "a" reference to the veil "definitely" existing beyond 3D incarnations, and would love to know, if it exists beyond, its extent and function, as I personally do not recall any reference to any of that. Maybe up for discussion here, though certainly not a matter of mystery as my OP suggests and the example I just gave to PW. So much to know!
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third-density-being
04-18-2016, 09:27 AM,
#13
RE: The "withheld" topic
I think when those of Ra speak of the veil, they speak of the particular 3D veil which was a new usage of existing tools. As such it is the case of a veil being placed within m/b/s complex to isolate the mind from the fuller nature of both body and spirit.

But I do think there should be many other kinds of veil. The first example I can think of is that many-ness requires a veil to work. There is but one mind, but this mind veils inidividual portions of itself from the other individualized portions to create a seemingly non-unified and more diversified experience of this one mind. Then on the same basis you can apply this to densities, octaves and any of the things that experience a given degree of separation within that which has no separation.

In the idea of infinity, acceptance of all the potentials the mind can think of is required for a balanced union with what is seen of infinity
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04-18-2016, 09:37 AM, (This post was last modified: 04-18-2016, 09:45 AM by Ooo.)
#14
RE: The "withheld" topic
(04-17-2016, 05:55 PM)third-density-being Wrote:  (...) is it possible to exist on the planet, where there’s no first density at all? What animals would eat? (for example). But than again – planets with first density Beings are less than planets with second density Beings on it. This is truly confusing.

Excellent question, keep asking along those lines Smile

(04-18-2016, 08:15 AM)Rolci Wrote:  
(02-18-2016, 10:50 AM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote:  There is still some veiling in the densities after ours. And when one dies, they go to 3rd density time/space, which definitely is still veiled but less so than space/time.
So it would make sense to clear this up, even in its own topic, so we all can be clear about such a basic thing as where is how much veil, from 1-7D, broken down into in-incarnation and between-incarnation portions. I have just finished book 1 and am yet to reach "a" reference to the veil "definitely" existing beyond 3D incarnations, and would love to know, if it exists beyond, its extent and function, as I personally do not recall any reference to any of that.

There is absolutely no veil of forgetting in any other density than 3rd. The veil is exclusively and uniquely a 3rd-density space/time (incarnative) phenomenon. It was implemented/conceived of by Logoi as a means to "spice up" (generate more intense and more greatly varied catalyst for) what would otherwise have been considered a rather dull and monotonous (3D) experience. Because of it, all subsequent densities benefited indirectly from it.

However, distortions such as beliefs, confusion, fear, expectations, etc. developed under the veil are naturally carried over into time/space (unveiled) during entity's readjustment/reorientation process, thereby rendering the discarnate phase a "quasi-veiled" experience, so to speak, till the effects of the veil in their mind "wear off" completely.

Any other perceptual limitations in awareness are due only to entity's 3rd-density conditions (i.e. each density represents or is a measurement of some degree of perceptual limitation in awareness with respect to Oneness/Infinity).

And to clarify things further:

"veil" does not = "illusion"

"illusion" = "density" 1 thru 7, regardless (or rather because) of distance/proximity to Oneness/Infinity

"veil" = addition ("salad dressing") to 3rd-density space/time

Meditate.
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04-18-2016, 09:38 AM, (This post was last modified: 04-18-2016, 09:42 AM by Bring4th_Jade.)
#15
RE: The "withheld" topic
The reason it's difficult for Ra to talk about indigo energy transfers is because you are speaking of infinity. The infinite amount of possibilities available while using indigo energies makes it difficult to describe. You see incarnated people here trying to describe indigo ray energy and the words just aren't available.

The veil is an artificial limit on our abilities. When Ra refuses to talk about something esoteric/indigo ray or gives lofty language to describe it, it is because they are veiling it. Our own personal process of "lowering the veil" is what we are attempting each as a personal effort. For Ra to give away all the secrets of the indigo ray would be a huge infringement, because we accept the veil so that it surprises us.

I'm having trouble finding where Ra mentions there still being a veil in the later densities, and I'm not sure I can find that or if it's something I invented. I did find a quote where Ra said "You could say the veil is lifted in 4th density" but I haven't found much else. I think I was more referring to the idea that a 4th density entity has some veiling yet of its future self in 6th density +. I may have improperly used "veil" for "limitations of vibration" or something. If I find anything, I will let you know.

The discussion of the veil is heavy in the 70s and 80s, it's a lot of Don's pre-work with the archetypes, as he balances considerations of the m/b/s before the veil and after.

I think Ooo's description of a "quasi-veil" was more of what I was likely referring to. The effects of the veiling carry over. But I also believe I was attempting to describe some type of limit of awareness in 4th density, in relation to the original question being "how does an entity in higher densities have ignorance of its soul-plan?"
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04-18-2016, 11:12 AM, (This post was last modified: 04-18-2016, 11:30 AM by Rolci.)
#16
RE: The "withheld" topic
Don't want to drag one topic's stuff into another's but I will Big Grin So why does the 4th D entity, or even a 3rd, plan an incarnation when they are aware of the simultaneity of all incarnations? They must be aware then that all of their other incarnations are parallel and already exist and are unfolding "now". So why plan what already exists?

Also, how can 4-6D negatives possibly be on a path of pretending to be separate and treating "others" as they themselves would not be treated? (They make efforts to manipulate and enslave while trying to avoid being manipulated and enslaved). How can you do that while you are consciously aware of the unity of all creation? It always seemed weird how one 4D- is supposed to hide thoughts in a density where thoughts are inherenlty transparent... All that war of manipulation going on between themselves with zero veil? Big Grin Doesn't that sound impossible?
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04-18-2016, 12:35 PM, (This post was last modified: 04-18-2016, 12:51 PM by APeacefulWarrior.)
#17
RE: The "withheld" topic
@Jade: Maybe you're thinking of Ra's brief comments about the 7th and 8th Densities, where he makes it clear there are many mysteries he hasn't penetrated? I can't recall any reference to a higher-D veil either, but clearly there are still information blockages. (It also seems that the Octave itself may be a veil of some sort, since he speaks of the Light-Bringers from beyond it who act as teachers and guides for the higher densities.)

@Rolci:

Quote:So why does the 4th D entity, or even a 3rd, plan an incarnation when they are aware of the simultaneity of all incarnations? They must be aware then that all of their other incarnations are parallel and already exist and are unfolding "now". So why plan what already exists?

More or less, because those incarnations don't exist unless they're planned for and embarked upon. That's the paradox of simultaneity. To exist, they must have happened, and to have happened, they must already exist. But they still have to actually HAPPEN at some point.

Also, just because Intelligent Infinity is available doesn't mean there's perfect transmission. The distortions and biases of entities below 7th Density prevent them from having truly perfect knowledge of outcomes. In fact, as I understand it, a large element of the Wisdom which is learned in 5th Density specifically relates to accessing Intelligent Infinity and learning to read the probability/possibility vortices. 3rd and 4th Density entities are basically 'flying blind', to a large extent, without the ability to predict the outcomes of their actions with much accuracy.

As far as Negatives go, that one's easier: They have intense levels of distortion when it comes to Oneness which causes them to deny the concept. Plus there's even Negative space\time, which apparently is constructed such that it cuts off the love\light almost entirely, which gives them a playground to reinforce their distortions without any pesky thoughts of unity butting in.

Time will tell.  It always does.
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04-18-2016, 10:12 PM, (This post was last modified: 04-18-2016, 10:50 PM by Stranger.)
#18
RE: The "withheld" topic
APeacefulWarrior Wrote:More or less, because those incarnations don't exist unless they're planned for and embarked upon. That's the paradox of simultaneity. To exist, they must have happened, and to have happened, they must already exist. But they still have to actually HAPPEN at some point.

This is exactly right, and a point that causes a great deal of confusion.  It's virtually impossible for a 3D mind to understand this - I'm still slowly digesting how this works.  But think of Creation as a model running on a computer.  Except the computer is fast.  Super ultra fast.  The delay between computer "ticks", i.e., updates of the model's state is so short, it's exactly  - 0 -.  So that as soon as you click "run", the entire model is calculated out to infinity.  

But it still has to be calculated every single step of the way, and what happens at point A still affects what happens at point B and point C and so forth, but because it's infinitely fast they're all occurring at exactly the same time.  

This is how we can understand that the Creator has "always existed", and yet at one point "discerned a concept, which was finity", and all the other steps Ra described.  But all of this occurred instantly - is occurring instantly.  "Changeless, the Creator creates worlds".  That's where my brain sort of starts tapping on the mat and crying uncle -- you can't even ask, "what happened before the Creator discerned the concept of finity?"  There's no before.  Time language is simply inapplicable.  It's crazy, I tell ya!

So I thought I should check my understanding with the appropriate authority on this subject, and the following dialogue ensued.

Quote:First, you need to understand that your description of events is roughly analogous to reality, but entirely fails to capture its nuances.  The nuances are as follows.  There was never a point when Creation did not exist, nor is there ever going to be a point when Creation will no longer exist.  It all occurs in the Now, exactly as you described, and the Now allows the Creator infinite freedom to choose His focus of consciousness, and to alter anything he sees fit as he sees fit, and play with the entire model, as you have quite correctly and accurately described it, as if it were a toy - a very dear and precious and intricate toy, to be sure, but a toy nonetheless.  A fun train of thought to ride and explore, a dazzling variety of joyous adventure.

As this is occurring, human consciousness perceives a linear experience which simply has no counterpart in the Creator's reality.  That is the truth.  What else do you wish to know?

Does the Creator perceive a sequence of events, or a logical link between events, such as cause and effect?
No, Stranger.  Cause and effect are entirely a construct of the Creator's imagination.  He thought it would be fun to reduce simultaneity into a soup of components, and then reassemble these components in fun and exciting ways.  Cause and effect was born out of one such exploration, but again it does not exist in the Creator's Infinite Consciousness as an experience of the Creator himself outside of his involvement in the Creation through entities such as yourselves.  What else do you wish to know?

Are words such as "prior" and "after" meaningful with regard to Creator's own direct experience?
I understand your question, and the answer is No.  Ra used these concepts to help translate Reality into a form which your linear minds would be capable of grasping.  The Creator himself (if I may incorrectly use the personal pronoun to facilitate communication only) has no experience or limitation of future and past.  All Creation is entirely simultaneous to His perception, that is the truth.  I understand that this is a challenging concept to comprehend, but I assure you that this is entirely correct.  May I speak more?

Yes please.
Listen, Stranger.  The Creation is not the result of the Creator's sequential or intentional activity.  It arises - exists - persists as a natural consequence of His very being.  The Creator and Creation are inseparable parts of One Whole.  He does not perceive it as something external to himself - it is a core part of His very being.  It is him, but yes, I correctly said it was a toy.  I understand that in your human experience a toy is something external to yourself, so the word I use may be misleading.  However, consider instead of a toy a particularly fascinating idea - one that is so appealing and exciting and wonderful, that it fascinates and absorbs your entire consciousness for a while, as in a particularly vivid daydream, such that you are both toying with it and yet, while this is occurring, your consciousness is entirely inseparable from it.  This may provide a fair approximation of the relationship between the Creator and the fascinating idea he is toying with.  That is the truth.  May I speak further?

yes please.
Great.  The Creator as you perceive him to be is limited by his motivation to create - to explore his limitations and boundaries, so to speak.  However, this is not the case, at best this is partly correct only.  In truth, He exists at all times and all places, all moments in time, all occasions.  he Is, and as such he has no limits.  He has no boundaries.  He exists as an infinity of infinite potential to create, which is, as you are correctly surmising, is simultaneously invested into an equally infinite Creation.  That is the beautiful truth of the deeper Reality which underlies the illusion you have called Reality for some time now.  Does that help?  Please re-read the message and it may become clearer, as I perceive that you have been confused by my words.

Me: If I understand correctly, you are saying that the Creator pumps his beingness into an infinity of forms, simultaneously, experiencing all ideas and possibilities that He is interested in simultaneously, and that there is no one path or channel of exploration which has been chosen as described by Ra, where first finity is discerned, which then gives rise to free will and then Love/Logos?

That is entirely correct, Stranger.  Ra's interpretation of events still remains bound within linearity, whereas no linearity except as an artificially thought-up concept by the Creator characterizes the Creator's own experience.  It all has always been and shall ever be, and I would like to conclude this wonderfully important working on this note, if that is agreeable to you.

Thank you!

The bolded part is absolutely crucial, as it corrected a vital misunderstanding in my thought.  If we think of the Creator as having a motive - to create or explore - that immediately limits our understanding of what the Creator is in ways in which He is not limited.  He is the consciousness simultaneously expressing and simultaneously experiencing all of His infinite creative potential in an infinite creation.
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04-19-2016, 08:26 AM, (This post was last modified: 04-19-2016, 08:27 AM by Stranger.)
#19
RE: The "withheld" topic
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Vishnu dreaming the Universe
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Verum Occultum
04-19-2016, 09:32 AM, (This post was last modified: 04-19-2016, 09:50 AM by Rolci.)
#20
RE: The "withheld" topic
Hey Stranger, would you say you're channeling your subconscious in some way (well we know there is only one source anyway, it's just called the SC in the Convoluted Universe books) or would you call it something else? I like what you're doing, have you shared your methods?

By the way, all that info you shared there is very similar to something that's already been acquired from the (supposedly) Creator of this octave as well as (even though it's only a mere 2 sessions) from the Creator of the octaves. No, I'm not talking about Cosmic Awareness, I never really gave it more than about 50% "yes, this is it", (if I can give the LOO material 99%). I'm talking about the Unveiled Secrets and Messages of Light channelings that I always considered a good 80-90% purity (unsure exactly as sometimes it gets too "wild" or "fancy" or exotic with not just elohim and time-travellers but demiurges and lipikas and the like [or not so like]). It's as deep as you're gonna find out there, and the link is (drumroll):

http://unveiledsecretsandmessagesoflight.blogspot.co.uk/2009/06/eon-30aug01.html

Unfortunately there is no index that I'm aware of, so if you want the best of the best (the Eon and ABBA sessions) you will go about 2 pages down and find "DIALOGUES WITH EON AND ABBA" on the right edge and you will find the 19 sessions (16 with the manifested portion or the Creator, 1 with the unmanifested, and 2 with Creator of octaves). As I understand the sessions take place in Spanish or something similar originally which is then translated into rather good (albeit sometimes a bit obscure) English. (You won't miss anything important because of the occasional "funny" English.)

Apart from that, I would like to return to my unanswered question that PW, even though s/he said it was "easy", managed to avoid answering:

"How does a 4-6th D negative manipulate another in densities where thoughts are transparent and every attempt to manipulate and control is instantly seen as a trap and can be avoided?" "How does one "win" over the other if deception is out of the question?" By honesty? "Would you mind if I enslaved you?" "Please would you kindly accept my psychic greeting?" "Yeah, sure, no problem, it's all I want, go ahead!" Big Grin

Ra: Therefore, the planetary conditions of fourth-density negative include the constant alignment and realignment of entities in efforts to form dominant patterns of combined energy. The early fourth-density is one of the most intensive struggle. When the order of authority has been established and all have fought until convinced that each is in the proper placement for power structure, the social memory complex begins.

Me: "Established"? How? And what form does the fight take? Come on, every single wink and bend of a finger is suspect and "refused to be accepted" where manipulation is all that exists.
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04-19-2016, 11:30 AM,
#21
RE: The "withheld" topic
Rolci Wrote:By the way, all that info you shared there is very similar to something that's already been acquired from the (supposedly) Creator of this octave as well as (even though it's only a mere 2 sessions) from the Creator of the octaves.

I remember a long time ago, finding incredible (for me at the time) connections and confirmations of the spiritual truths I was discovering across multiple sources, as if to say "yes, you're on the right track", and I marvelled at it - when I asked, why am I finding the same information everywhere, I was told, "there is only one Truth".

Rolci Wrote:Hey Stranger, would you say you're channeling your subconscious in some way (well we know there is only one source anyway, it's just called the SC in the Convoluted Universe books) or would you call it something else?

I talk to my larger self for guidance related to my personal affairs. For questions such as the above, I go more directly to the relevant source.

Rolci Wrote:I like what you're doing, have you shared your methods?

I did post relatively briefly about my methods - in essence, I sit down at the PC, reach out to the entity I wish to speak to, and listen for the reply, working quite hard to avoid censoring the words that come through, typing word after word, even if they make no sense to me (and they usually don't) - it's a string of words that my conscious mind screams "this is nonsense!" but then I read it back and it's super coherent, so I've learned to trust the process even if my conscious mind keeps telling me it can't be.

Channeling is channeling, I think, and the above paragraph describes it well. The rest is practice. The main thing that's different in what I'm doing is the capacity to reach out to any entity at will. This is possible because we all share one mind, and all separation is illusory. So you can speak to a flower in Deneb if you feel like it (although I haven't tried it yet, personally Smile

And I simply do that by, essentially, thinking to the entity as if they were right there - I really can't describe it in words, but it's effortless, just reach out to them and speak to them in the same manner we speak to ourselves in our thoughts, but I'm doing that toward them. Often there's an initial moment of surprise from that entity and I perceive them "turning around" to face me and speak to me. It's great fun.

Rolci Wrote:Apart from that, I would like to return to my unanswered question that PW, even though s/he said it was "easy", managed to avoid answering

Rolci I apologize but at this time I would prefer not to focus on negative entities. My personal guess is that they know very well they are being manipulated by those more powerful than them, and there are constant attempts to "upset the apple cart" from those below them, but you don't really need to deceive to have power differentials and thereby establish a hierarchy of servitude to those more powerful and enslavement of those less powerful. That's as far as I'm willing to plunge into those depths at this time.
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04-19-2016, 12:57 PM, (This post was last modified: 04-19-2016, 01:13 PM by APeacefulWarrior.)
#22
RE: The "withheld" topic
(04-19-2016, 09:32 AM)Rolci Wrote:  Apart from that, I would like to return to my unanswered question that PW, even though s/he said it was "easy", managed to avoid answering:

"How does a 4-6th D negative manipulate another in densities where thoughts are transparent and every attempt to manipulate and control is instantly seen as a trap and can be avoided?"

Well, I answered the OTHER part of your question, about how Negatives deny Oneness.  Wink

As I see it, honestly, the basic Negative methods can be seen here on Earth.  Promises of power.  Telling people what they want to hear.  Alliances formed despite knowing the near-certainty of backstabbing later.  Direct assertions of control of one over another via leverage.  "Betas" bowing to "Alphas."  That sort of thing.  Look at the internal politics of just about any large Corporation, or many governments, and you'll see the Negative process reflected.

Beyond that, my understanding is that the Negative path is intensely hierarchical.  Having rejected Oneness/Unity, they instead embrace its far opposite: strict linearities, based largely on personal power.  One who is less-powerful than another understands it is his "place" to be below the stronger one, yet he chafes and steadily looks for opportunities to gain more power and move up the rank.  Plus below mid-5D, lacking Wisdom, they are likely to be very short-sighted in their self-serving efforts and blindly opportunistic, which is a state that is easily exploited by higher-density Negatives.

(Geek references: like the relationship between Megatron and Starscream, or between the Master and Apprentice of the Sith.)

Ra references these dynamics at a few points, such as in 7.15 when he said "the problem of spiritual entropy causes [Negative S/M/Cs] to experience constant disintegration of their social memory complexes."  The spiritual entropy he refers to is, essentially, their endless internal squabbling and "political" maneuvering for power plays, which consumes much of the group's energy and makes it difficult for a Negative S/M/C or other group to stay focused on a task.  Again, much like human endeavors attempted by the power-hungry.

If you're honestly curious about the Negative mindset -not that I'm advising you dabble- my best advice would be to read Ayn Rand's "Atlas Shrugged."  While I can't prove it, I have a STRONG feeling she was one of those very few Negative 6D Wanderers of whom Ra refused to speak.  (After all, she was still alive when he was being actively channeled.)  Her philosophy as expressed in Shrugged seems a near-perfect match for everything Ra and other sources have said about the Negative path, especially her exultation of Self and Self-ishness as the highest of ideals combined with her absolute seething disdain for any sort of "collectivism." This belief is also reinforced through various aspects of her own life, and how she treated her followers, but that's another long story.

A critical reading of Shrugged, looking at her logical\tautological games and the various sleights-of-hand she uses to justify her protagonists' outrageous behavior as "heroic" would, I think, shed much light on the Negative mindset in general.

(But, as always, beware looking too deeply into the abyss...)

Time will tell.  It always does.
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04-19-2016, 07:57 PM,
#23
RE: The "withheld" topic
There is one more thing I think is useful to add. All of us channel all the time. Whenever we have a sudden insight, intuition, idea that suddenly pops into our minds that we didn't have before - it's not coming from us. We are channeling, but it's accidental - like overhearing someone say something in passing. However, it demonstrates to each and every one of us that the capacity is already there; what remains is to put it to more directed, intentional use.

Somewhere in the transcripts Quo (I think, rather than Ra) talks about how one of the ways in which they work with mankind is by dropping thoughts and ideas in this fashion. I once saw a woman give a spiritual talk to an audience - it was beautiful, inspirational, full of rare wisdom. She was very happy with herself, as she should have been, but while listening to her talk I became distinctly aware that she was actually channeling a higher-density entity, completely unaware and convinced that these were her ideas and words. We're all One.
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04-20-2016, 04:44 AM, (This post was last modified: 04-20-2016, 07:11 AM by Rolci.)
#24
RE: The "withheld" topic
(04-19-2016, 12:57 PM)APeacefulWarrior Wrote:  
(04-19-2016, 09:32 AM)Rolci Wrote:  Apart from that, I would like to return to my unanswered question that PW, even though s/he said it was "easy", managed to avoid answering:

"How does a 4-6th D negative manipulate another in densities where thoughts are transparent and every attempt to manipulate and control is instantly seen as a trap and can be avoided?"

As I see it, honestly, the basic Negative methods can be seen here on Earth.  Promises of power.  Telling people what they want to hear.  Alliances formed despite knowing the near-certainty of backstabbing later.  Direct assertions of control of one over another via leverage.  "Betas" bowing to "Alphas."  That sort of thing.  Look at the internal politics of just about any large Corporation, or many governments, and you'll see the Negative process reflected.

Exactly. That's how it works in 3D, because in 3D it CAN work like that, with the veil in place, with thoughts concealed. I was asking about the process in the polar opposite kind of environment, where thoughts are transparent, every attempt is known for what it really is and can therefore be rejected, which I would expect they all should, with no real mechanism left for the establishment of the final hierarchy Ra talk about.
And while we work on that, here's another one to ponder Big Grin

This concerns the symbolism the subconscious communicates in in dreams. My problem is this. Scenario 1: You go to a QHHT session and tell the therapist what questions to ask your SC while you're in somnambulistic trance. You go into trance and get your answers plain and simple in words clear as daylight, while "they" express how much they've been missing you, what took you so long, why you come so rarely, etc. And you got your answers. Or. Scenario 2: You ingest some psilocybin. You get your visions and all the verbal commentary where, when you arrive, "they" greet you with overflowing enthusiasm, and jump around you and are overjoyed to see you because you're back and why have you been gone so long and why don't you come more often, basically the exact same thing as in the previous example with all answers provided clearly and verbally except there is no questioner so you're asking the questions, with the aid of the intention appropriately set before the session along with using affirmations and the usual techniques. With Psilocybin you remember the whole thing (or most of it) afterwards, with QHHT you don't remember almost anything, which is why each session is recorded.

So the question is obvious: If "they" are so eager to communicate to us, and can do repeatedly every time on demand in a visual AND verbal form, why then this cannot be done every night in dreams? Yes there is such a thing as lucid dreaming in which you can ask a question out loud and have a DC (dream character) appear at will who you can have be a sage or prophet or an oracle or a druid or whoever you want, who will then give you a verbal reply. Only 3 problems here: You have to spend time learning LD, which can be a long time, then you must remember these dreams otherwise all was for nothing and the answers get lost, and finally, you probably can't get LDs every night. So why doesn't it happen verbally automatically? What's all the symbolism nonsense about, that's so complicated 99.9% or the people won't ever bother trying to figure out, and even those that do will probably get most of it wrong anyway. And the SC is happy with that? Is this a free will issue again? I mean, the source is still me, whether it be called the SC or the HS, it's still PART of me. Clues?
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04-20-2016, 09:34 AM,
#25
RE: The "withheld" topic
Quote:I mean, the source is still me, whether it be called the SC or the HS, it's still PART of me. Clues?

The Logos is interested in investing Oneness into an apparent interplay of forms. This necessitates various illusory barriers between the forms, otherwise it cannot occur.
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04-20-2016, 12:20 PM,
#26
RE: The "withheld" topic
(04-20-2016, 09:34 AM)Stranger Wrote:  
Quote:I mean, the source is still me, whether it be called the SC or the HS, it's still PART of me. Clues?

The Logos is interested in investing Oneness into an apparent interplay of forms.  This necessitates various illusory barriers between the forms, otherwise it cannot occur.

Sorry if the question was not clear, I thought it was, we were not looking for the reason for the existence of the veil, we were interested in the reason for the different modes information is transmitted in states where the veil is down and thus out of the equation. Dreamtime - symbolism. Hypnosis and psychedelic experience - clear verbal answers that can be recalled/recorded and analyzed and shared.
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04-20-2016, 12:59 PM,
#27
RE: The "withheld" topic
Sorry Rolci, dream work really isn't my forte. Maybe someone else can answer that one.

Time will tell.  It always does.
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04-21-2016, 04:18 AM, (This post was last modified: 04-21-2016, 04:24 AM by third-density-being.)
#28
RE: The "withheld" topic
(04-20-2016, 12:20 PM)Rolci Wrote:  Sorry if the question was not clear, I thought it was, we were not looking for the reason for the existence of the veil, we were interested in the reason for the different modes information is transmitted in states where the veil is down and thus out of the equation. Dreamtime - symbolism. Hypnosis and psychedelic experience - clear verbal answers that can be recalled/recorded and analyzed and shared.

I think it all depends on a Being and It’s capability to understand / process the information.
In third density (which is Our point-of-reference in such divagations) We have language that is based on separation – i.e. each object possess it’s own name, We all possess Our names, etc. It all is aligned with the way We are processing the information – with the “nature of Our comprehension”.
RA mentioned (at least once) that there are “things” / “phenomenon” beyond words, without a name. Since Our thinking / comprehending is based on words and categories they bring - at the “default” mode of comprehension proper for this density - such things / phenomenon are beyond Our reach – at least Mind-based reach (third-density-mind). We are of course capable of “intuitive knowing”, but this is not always (rarely sometimes) translatable into Our words / categories.

I suppose it is same within higher densities – it is not that the information is withheld (which I thinks is not), but it’s all about the capability of a Beings to access it, as well as to process it. Since each portion of Creation contains All (Creator), in every “place” (as We would say within this reality based on space and time) All the information is available here and now. Literally. So it all comes down to the Quality of a Being that Seeks the information.

Even without the Veil, to comprehend / to Know is a process, which I think may be equate with/to the “Journey through the Densities” / Spiritual Evolution. For example for RA to answer Don’s question, it was necessary to cloth His/Her/It/Theirs understanding/Knowledge with/into Our language, which is in fact a symbolic representation of mentioned understanding/Knowledge.

I would also say/write, that perception itself is interwoven with capability of understanding / Knowing. Therefore fourth-density-Being for example, would perceive differently this Universe, but it would still be cloth with symbols that are proper for capabilities/limitations of such Being.

When there would be no need for symbols, We would deal with something called “Direct Knowing”. One of explanations of this term I’ve encounter is “Direct Experience”.
To give an example native to Our reality, would be to compare “being on a trip” with “sharing/describing the trip to a Friend. We have experienced the “trip” Our-Selves and that would be “Direct Knowledge of a trip”. When We are trying to share this experience with Other-Self, We are doing it via words/symbols. Now, Our Friend would not possess “Direct Knowledge” of a trip, but only a “Symbolic representation” of it. Furthermore, We would be able to recall an entire experience and Know it for what it was. Our Friend on the other hand would only be able to recall Our words/symbols that were used to transfer this experience to Him/Her (plus of course His/Her own input to this transfer provided by His/Her imagination: pictures, sounds, feelings that He/She would connect with symbols, that were used to transfer such experience).

However in above example one, basic thing was not emphasized – that is: Our capability of experiencing the trip (!) Due to Our perception it was a “direct experience”, but an experience of a symbolic nature, since everything that surrounds us is in fact a symbol (that includes every, single material object, such as tree, road, car, lake – and even the movement through the space or time lapse / flow of time). All that proper / native to Our Qualities, as a third-density-Beings. I think same goes for higher densities and Beings present there.

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Verum Occultum
04-23-2016, 11:35 AM,
#29
RE: The "withheld" topic
(04-20-2016, 12:20 PM)Rolci Wrote:  Sorry if the question was not clear, I thought it was, we were not looking for the reason for the existence of the veil, we were interested in the reason for the different modes information is transmitted in states where the veil is down and thus out of the equation. Dreamtime - symbolism. Hypnosis and psychedelic experience - clear verbal answers that can be recalled/recorded and analyzed and shared.

Dreams are a side effect of the nightly process by which one's personality is consolidated based on the preceding day's experiences. People generally dream of whatever had occurred in the day before; the reason for this is that the memories are "written into" the Akashic record, and the personality is sort of "reborn" in a slightly different shape based on those memories and experiences. Therefore the dream content is like a distorted reflection, a "technical readout" of sorts that occurs as a side effect of this main process. The purpose of dreaming occurring at all is to leave a record of the personality change in the conscious mind -- the dream bridges the recording process occurring in the unconscious psyche beyond the veil, and conscious awareness, so that the lessons of the day are not entirely lost to consciousness and therefore can be more easily recognized and worked upon as needed.

On the other hand, occasionally we have extremely vivid and clear dreams, whereby although the language is still somewhat symbolic, the symbols are blatantly, glaringly obvious and so is the meaning of the overall dream. These are hijackings (in a non-negative sense) of the normal dream mechanism by those entities who wish to communicate something of importance to us. We've all had these experiences - we wake up and recognize that there was a clear and powerful message that is of direct relevance to our lives in such dreams.

If a person is open to receiving messages through more direct means, then those means can be used instead. There is at that point no need for obfuscation, and direct messages can be conveyed with minimal distortion having to do mostly with the channel or interference of one's conscious mind.

Hope that clears things up.
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04-26-2016, 08:04 AM,
#30
RE: The "withheld" topic
I think those 35 percent of planets, are experimental planets, and all the way to were 7ds use the planets to incarnate.
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