Poll: Which of these are acceptable to you?
transgender/intersex people
gay/lesbian people
"black lives matter"
vegan/vegetarianism
abbatoirs
capitalism
socialism
religion
total freedom of speech
feminism
patriarchy
mens rights groups (MRAs)
equality
expanding language to include more pronouns
Indigenous activism
reproductive choices
sexual assault
euthanasia
lying
physical self defense
monogamy
non-monogamy
war
(forced) traditional gender roles
transvestism
bisexuality
homophobia
racism
Christianity
Islam
ableism
diversity
conformity
welfare
free education
accountability
inclusivity
exclusivity
equal pay
death penalty
[Show Results]
 
 
To understand the B4 community better
12-17-2016, 10:04 PM,
#31
RE: To understand the B4 community better
Yup - (now reading all replies)

this need to be redone


I mean acceptable as in 'personally okay with you'

not as in - a broad metaphysical 'acceptance'.
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Glow
12-17-2016, 10:04 PM,
#32
RE: To understand the B4 community better
(12-17-2016, 09:56 PM)SMC Wrote:  Hi Glow - that post probably needs a trigger warning as I'm now wanting to curl into a ball with physical visceral reactions to the imagery Sad

I think I need to create this poll again with added issues and clearer explanation of what I mean.

My idea was to: *for example* see what percentage of B4 are homophobic (as we have had homophobia here recently and it resulted in a member leaving).

Sorry sweetie I didn't even think of that.
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12-17-2016, 11:07 PM,
#33
RE: To understand the B4 community better
I checked "patriarchy," "homophobia," "racism," "forced gender roles," "sexual assault," "war," and "lying."

All values I uphold and believe to be virtuous. I am pleased to see there are other supporters for such noble deeds.

Fourth density is now.
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12-17-2016, 11:51 PM, (This post was last modified: 12-17-2016, 11:53 PM by smc. Edit Reason: additions )
#34
RE: To understand the B4 community better
Poll closing


I'll re-do this poll once Plenum has received my request to close this one.

any additions you'd like to add to it - feel free to comment below Idea

love smc
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12-17-2016, 11:59 PM,
#35
RE: To understand the B4 community better
all of these categories are highly distorted
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outerheaven
12-18-2016, 12:02 AM,
#36
RE: To understand the B4 community better
(12-17-2016, 11:59 PM)BlatzAdict Wrote:  all of these categories are highly distorted

yes - that's the nature of 3D conditions


3D polarising to 4d Negative or 4D Positive (or unharvestable)
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12-18-2016, 12:04 AM, (This post was last modified: 12-18-2016, 12:05 AM by BlatzAdict.)
#37
RE: To understand the B4 community better
(12-18-2016, 12:02 AM)SMC Wrote:  
(12-17-2016, 11:59 PM)BlatzAdict Wrote:  all of these categories are highly distorted

yes - that's the nature of 3D conditions


3D polarising to 4d Negative or 4D Positive (or unharvestable)

polarity is a joke, don't you get it.. there is no polarity late sixth density positive because it sees the good and bad as one in the self. 4d negative still is of the illusion that these things are separate from oneself
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outerheaven
12-18-2016, 12:15 AM,
#38
RE: To understand the B4 community better
(12-18-2016, 12:04 AM)BlatzAdict Wrote:  
(12-18-2016, 12:02 AM)SMC Wrote:  
(12-17-2016, 11:59 PM)BlatzAdict Wrote:  all of these categories are highly distorted

yes - that's the nature of 3D conditions


3D polarising to 4d Negative or 4D Positive (or unharvestable)

polarity is a joke, don't you get it.. there is no polarity late sixth density positive because it sees the good and bad as one in the self. 4d negative still is of the illusion that these things are separate from oneself

I don't see it as a "joke" - I do "get it" and yes late 6D positive is beyond polarity
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12-18-2016, 09:17 AM,
#39
RE: To understand the B4 community better
(12-18-2016, 12:15 AM)SMC Wrote:  I don't see it as a "joke" - I do "get it" and yes late 6D positive is beyond polarity

I don't see it as a joke either. SMC is/are right, in my humble opinion - we're in 3D, and will never be any 'higher' in this incarnation, so I, for my part, will keep to 3D lessons and service. Shy

Ariel in The Aaron/Q’uo Dialogues, Session 9 Wrote:Of course, there is negativity on this plane. There would need to be. You understand that it is part of your catalyst for learning and that there is no duality, no difference between the positive and the negative in the long run and that, at the same time, negativity must be resisted with love because of the suffering that it creates.

Ariel in The Aaron/Q’uo Dialogues, Session 9 Wrote:Distorted compassion can lead to a distortion of wisdom which does not oppose negativity with love, but rather, feels need to hear it out; and in that way, negativity may play on that compassion and wisdom and manipulate the, as yet, immature faith and love.

Ra Wrote:It is absolutely necessary that an entity consciously realize it does not understand in order for it to be harvestable. Understanding is not of this density.

-`ღ´-

Compassion, sensitivity, and an ability to empathize are helpful in avoiding the distortions of man-made intelligence and awareness.
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12-18-2016, 02:45 PM,
#40
RE: To understand the B4 community better
(12-17-2016, 11:04 AM)SMC Wrote:  The one qualifier I would put on the situation is that it shouldn't be forced but suggested. If that person wants to continue to not use the pronouns... that's his choice - so I don't think that should be a forced thing...

Well, that 'one qualifier' you have is not some minor difference of opinion. In fact, it is the heart of that entire discussion: the proposed mandatory use of alternative pronouns by law, and the scary fact that not complying with the usage of these pronouns would legally constitute hate speech.


But I understand: it is not convenient for you to call attention to the manipulative, authoritarian tactics of your ideologues, or the fact that we agree that compliance should not be forced. Better to bring up the completely unrelated case of a dead transgendered teen, in some vague way that implied some sort of causality, to mischaracterize the concerns I have as 'disturbing.'

Manipulative, authoritarian, controlling -- check!

Quote:(he was a she)

Just so we're clear what we're talking about: Glow, when you used the wrong pronoun for this transgendered person, you effectively discriminated against a transgendered person. That is a serious offense! If you lived in NYC, where such aforementioned discrimination laws are on the books, you could face a fine up to $250,000.

Now that's what I call social justice.
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4Dsunrise
12-18-2016, 11:46 PM,
#41
RE: To understand the B4 community better
Hello everyone (reading this)

I got a pm from outerheaven (sent 8hours ago)

outerheaven Wrote:I have just sent you a buddy request.
You can view your pending requests from User Control Panel -> Buddy/Ignore List.

so I just finished writing a reply... pressed to 'send' it and got

"Please correct the following errors before continuing:

   You cannot send messages to outerheaven because you're on their ignore list."

soooooo I went to the buddy/ignore list to accept the buddy request but see I (now?) have no buddy request... so I applied to add her/him as a buddy... but it won't let me....

long story short... I'll post my reply here and if anyone wants to let her/him know about it  -feel free to share it ... I have no-one on my ignore list (or buddy list )... but want to respect her/his change of mind from buddy request to wanting to 'ignore' me...

all is well  - will maybe post a new poll in a few days.. dealing with an injury at the moment... best wishes

smc

Quote:(my reply to outerheaven)

oh? fascinating! Smile Heart

have just gotten home logged on and read your post re the gender pronouns.

Is your concern the enforcement/legality aspect only?

if so we are in agreement I don't think someone should be jailed for hate speech - but if their employer wants to terminate their employment I have no issue with that. I also agree with the idea of avoiding hateful speech becoming an encouraged 'norm'.

In Australia: https://www.fairwork.gov.au/employee-entitlements/protections-at-work/protection-from-discrimination-at-work



Quote:Protection from discrimination at work

Discrimination occurs in the workplace when an employer takes adverse action against an employee or prospective employee because of a protected attribute.
What are the protected attributes?

Protected attributes include:

   race
   colour
   sex
   sexual orientation
   age
   physical or mental disability
   marital status
   family or carer's responsibilities
   pregnancy
   religion
   political opinion
   national extraction
   social origin.

What is adverse action?

Adverse action includes doing, threatening or organising any of the following:

   firing an employee
   injuring the employee in their employment, eg. not giving an employee legal entitlements such as pay or leave
   changing an employee's job to their disadvantage
   treating an employee differently than others
   not hiring someone
   offering a potential employee different and unfair terms and conditions for the job compared to other employees.

When can discrimination occur?

Discrimination can happen:

   to someone applying for a job as an employee
   to a new employee who hasn't started work
   to an employee at any time during employment.


Quote:Protections at work

All employees have protected rights at work. These protected rights include:

   workplace rights
   taking or not taking part in industrial activities or belonging or not belonging to an industrial association
   being free from discrimination.

Employees can’t be treated differently or worse because they possess or have exercised a right, or for a discriminatory reason. Employees are protected from:

   adverse action
   coercion
   undue influence or pressure
   misrepresentation.

What rights are protected?

Workplace rights

A person has a workplace right if they:

   have a benefit, role or responsibility under a workplace law (eg. The Fair Work Act or state/territory workers' compensation legislation), instrument (eg. an award or registered agreement) or an order made by an industrial body (eg. the Fair Work Commission)
   can start or take part in a process or proceeding under a workplace law or instrument
   can make a complaint or inquiry about their employment to a body
   are an employee and can make a complaint or inquiry about their employment. eg. an employee making an enquiry about their pay to their employer.

Industrial activities

A person has the right to belong or not belong to an industrial association (eg. a trade union or employer association). A person also has the right to take part or not take part in industrial activity.

Industrial activities include doing or not doing the following:

   being involved in establishing a union or employer association
   organising, promoting, encouraging or participating in lawful activities for a union or employer association
   representing the views, claims or interests of a union or employer association
   complying with lawful requests made by a union or employer association
   paying a fee to a union or employer association
   asking to be represented by a union or employer association.

Discrimination

An employee or prospective employee has the right to be free from discrimination at work.

To find out more visit Protection from discrimination at work.

What am I protected from?
Adverse action

Adverse action is action that’s unlawful if it’s taken for particular reasons.

Adverse action includes doing or threatening to do any of the following:

   firing an employee
   injuring the employee in their employment, eg. not giving an employee legal entitlements such as pay or leave
   changing an employee's job to their disadvantage
   discriminating between employees
   not hiring someone
   offering a potential employee different (and unfair) terms and conditions for the job, compared to other employees
   ending a contract, or refusing to enter into a contract with an independent contractor, discriminating against them in the terms and conditions offered, altering their position to their detriment, refusing to make use of their services, or refusing to supply goods or services to them
   an employee or independent contractor taking industrial action against their employer or principal.

It's unlawful for a person to take adverse action against another person for:

   having or using a workplace right
   belonging or not belonging to a union
   taking or not taking part in industrial activity
   having a protected attribute.

Coercion

Coercion means forcing someone to do something against their will, for example, through fear, intimidation or threats.

A person can't be forced to use (or not use) a workplace right. For example, if an employee refuses to vote for an enterprise agreement, the employer can't:

   threaten to sack the employee
   threaten to demote the employee
   change their roster.

The coercive behaviour may still be unlawful even if it wasn't successful in forcing someone to do something against their will.

Undue influence or pressure

Undue influence or pressure is when an employer users their power to try to influence or pressure an employee to change their conditions of employment.

It's unlawful for an employer to place undue influence or pressure on an employee to:

   enter or not enter into an agreement under the National Employment Standards or an award or registered agreement
   agree to, or terminate an individual flexibility arrangement
   accept a guarantee of annual earnings or
   agree or not agree to a deduction.

The undue influence or pressure or coercive behaviour can be unlawful even if it doesn't succeed.
=============================================================

here is an article you may find informative about 'the climate' of the situation re hate speech in Australia...

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2014/05/09/explainer-how-do-australias-laws-hate-speech-work-practice

if you support the discouraging of hate speech by non authoritarian methods then we are in sync...

I've said in a thread (Trump one I think) that I find many left wing as domineering and OTT as right wing...

case in point - yesterday at my local shops I saw a massive marxist/socialist rally poster that had been tacked on a notice board (rally date April next year! and in a large city 3hrs away!) directly over and obscuring about 10 other A4 pieces of paper placed from local towns people advertising babysitting/ car for sale/ accom wanted/ free fruit from someones tree -available, etc etc - how rude/ unthinking/ selfish! - so I took the thumb tacks out and moved it to a side wall and placed it there... all the while reflecting at the zealous, and unthinking selfishness of the organisation... in only thinking about their own agenda... but it just as easily it could have been an add for a multinational corporation - and I woulda done the same thing to remedy it

so - to me these are (negative) "Social Justice warriors" and I have a LOT of experience of them.. I've lived in share houses with communists/ marxists/socialists/trotsky-ists and if this is the fanatical energy you're referring to I understand your concerns.

However, imo - nuance and discernment is needed... I don't support incarceration for 'hate speech'... but also don't think it should be (effectively) sanctioned by allowing it in workplaces, MSM, public spaces etc etc...

this is a complex issue and as an Australian I come from a different perspective and very different world from the USA.

Glows mistake was innocent/accidental and wouldn't hurt any transgender people I know, and certainly at least to me - I can't see how that is what the core issue is trying to address - at least not in Australia...

another example of language change I support is transmuting the constant use of "mankind "and "he" as the primary descriptor of female/male/intersex etc...

if using "he" 'doesn't matter' and 'shouldn't bother' me - lets then switch to "womankind" and "she" for the next 500 to 1,000 years...

if people have resistance to that - they're disproving their idea that a universal 'he' (or 'she') doesn't carry any 'charge'  - because it DOES  Idea

I 'hear' (and feel) a lot of anger in your posts... as an empath that makes it very difficult for me to interact with you...
I'm open to hearing in depth about your life experiences/ reasons/concerns... but I don't have a lot of energy for heated debate and especially not to argue back and forth on a thread....  

I have no other "buddy" s on B4.. what does it mean to accept a request? do we get to send each other free pizza or sumthing? Wink

lovely for you to extend forward towards me - that's very cool... looking forward to your reply; in the meantime I'm going to email those marxists and tell them how f***** up it was to put their one large poster over so many individual posters on the message board of a small country town...

oh gads... when I last shared a house with 'socialists' I was eventually turned on and kicked out for being ideologically 'incorrect'!
there are totalitarians on both 'sides'... YUK

but I'm still a very unorthodox, issue by issue 'radical'... ie: I totally support all female lesbian separatist enclaves and totally support macho (non violent) 'mens groups' that want to get out and hunt game, (preferably they also eat it) and fish, and drink beer and relax 'with the guys' - whatever...  it's all a 'case by case' situation for me - and as much as possible I try to infuse interactions with respect.

thanks for reading all this - I recommend the link as it will help you see the difference in our countries... recent rightwing political attempts to ease hate speech restrictions were quashed as most Australians are fine with our current laws...  but waaaay smaller population and in way less stress as a country.... we're very lucky people compared to America... I went to University (half of it) for free (has now changed to a paying it back in instalments but only if you get a high paying job) and we have free health care... also we don't have deaths from gun ownership like the US does... I love your country - was brought up on TV from your country (and some UK and AU stations) too... but your country also freaks me out... not that mine is 'perfect' by any means
best wishes Smile smc

"Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing
and rightdoing there is a field.
I'll meet you there.
When the soul lies down in that grass
the world is too full to talk about."

~ Rumi




outerheaven Wrote:I have just sent you a buddy request.
You can view your pending requests from User Control Panel -> Buddy/Ignore List.


(12-18-2016, 02:45 PM)outerheaven Wrote:  
(12-17-2016, 11:04 AM)SMC Wrote:  The one qualifier I would put on the situation is that it shouldn't be forced but suggested. If that person wants to continue to not use the pronouns... that's his choice - so I don't think that should be a forced thing...

Well, that 'one qualifier' you have is not some minor difference of opinion. In fact, it is the heart of that entire discussion: the proposed mandatory use of alternative pronouns by law, and the scary fact that not complying with the usage of these pronouns would legally constitute hate speech.


But I understand: it is not convenient for you to call attention to the manipulative, authoritarian tactics of your ideologues, or the fact that we agree that compliance should not be forced. Better to bring up the completely unrelated case of a dead transgendered teen, in some vague way that implied some sort of causality, to mischaracterize the concerns I have as 'disturbing.'

Manipulative, authoritarian, controlling -- check!




Quote:(he was a she)

Just so we're clear what we're talking about: Glow, when you used the wrong pronoun for this transgendered person, you effectively discriminated against a transgendered person. That is a serious offense! If you lived in NYC, where such aforementioned discrimination laws are on the books, you could face a fine up to $250,000.

Now that's what I call social justice.
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12-21-2016, 10:49 AM,
#42
RE: To understand the B4 community better
(12-17-2016, 10:04 PM)SMC Wrote:  Yup - (now reading all replies)

this need to be redone


I mean acceptable as in 'personally okay with you'

not as in - a broad metaphysical 'acceptance'.

Since my post was heavily about broad metaphysical 'acceptance', I'd like for you to tell me the difference because I don't see one.
Say I desire to be acceptant of that which others reflect that I am through them, how does that differ from it being personally okay with me for them to be as they are?

I think there's ever just a truthful mirror of yourself to look at, only facets of yourself to accept and distill approval of. Even in others, I tend to look at the interactions with others as an interaction of self with self, and seek understanding of what mirror the other-self represents within the duality of self/other other/self. Say a man hurts a child, I would see that as a mean for the man of hurting it's own inner child and creating separation within himself, which I would not believe to ever be done from a healthy state of what we are and instead to be a hint of great sorrow and great need to heal things.

Anyway, I think acceptance of all things is important because so long it is not reached, it is of yourself you are non-acceptant of and this is a blocage however righteous it may seem to be non-acceptant. Anywhen what you feel for a person or an action is not love and compassion, it reflects facets of yourself that require healing.

In the idea of infinity, acceptance of all the potentials the mind can think of is required for a balanced union with what is seen of infinity
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Glow
12-24-2016, 10:01 AM,
#43
RE: To understand the B4 community better
(12-18-2016, 12:04 AM)BlatzAdict Wrote:  polarity is a joke, don't you get it.. there is no polarity late sixth density positive because it sees the good and bad as one in the self. 4d negative still is of the illusion that these things are separate from oneself

Quo on November 19, 2016 Wrote:My friends, this is an illusion, your third-density experience, but it is an illusion with a purpose. It is not mere misdirection or misrepresentation. It is an opportunity, my friends, for you to polarize more positively in your seeking of the One Creator all about you, within you, without you, within every other soul with whom you share this planetary influence. This is not an easy task, my friends, it is one which requires great dedication upon each level of your being. You have within you the power to decide. You have free will. How to exercise this free will is your question.

-`ღ´-

Compassion, sensitivity, and an ability to empathize are helpful in avoiding the distortions of man-made intelligence and awareness.
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Bring4th_Jade
12-24-2016, 07:47 PM,
#44
RE: To understand the B4 community better
"You need only to work upon yourself, so that you are a clear channel, unmoved by the ridiculousness of many situations, and in great humor when others find a situation quite grim. For you see, you dwell in the midst of a great cosmic joke..."

"...the source of the difficulty for any entity is the limitation of the viewpoint. If you will look upon your experience and the experience of each entity about you as the experience of the one Creator, with no separation between you, you will see that there is nothing but service, and in truth there is no harm, there is no polarity, no right or wrong, for you are one."

"...allow yourself to remember that life as you know it is a cosmic joke. It is not good to take things too seriously. All of your busy thoughts and all of your worries are, at best, little cartoons. When you pass from this physical existence, you will spend some time laughing and some time crying. And the tears will come because you took things so seriously, that you forgot to laugh and praise the Creator that gave you this marvelous cartoon. This attitude is all-important in maintaining the balance that allows you to go through your physical experience learning and also enjoying yourself."

"I am all that has been, and is, and shall be..."
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12-25-2016, 02:38 PM,
#45
RE: To understand the B4 community better
No contradiction there. Wink

Compassion, sensitivity, and an ability to empathize are helpful in avoiding the distortions of man-made intelligence and awareness.
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