Don't trust Trump/I'm leaving this planet
10-25-2017, 04:45 PM,
#31
RE: Don't trust Trump/I'm leaving this planet
https://consumerist.com/2017/10/24/senate-votes-to-make-sure-you-cant-sue-your-bank-or-credit-card-companies/

If Trump is an enemy of elites, I shudder to think about what would happen if he decides those elites aren't half-bad after all. 

So far, while Trump might have been better than Hillary in terms of elite-catering, it seems that Obama was better than Trump, with nationalized healthcare and all. Are people still somehow holding out hope that Trump can be a strong force for change instead of just consoling themselves that Trump is better than Hillary would have been? Was Trump really just a case of throwing s*** into the political system and seeing what happens? Because I'm not sure things are working as well as people would have hoped.

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10-26-2017, 01:56 AM, (This post was last modified: 10-26-2017, 01:59 AM by APeacefulWarrior.)
#32
RE: Don't trust Trump/I'm leaving this planet
(10-25-2017, 04:45 PM)xise Wrote:  https://consumerist.com/2017/10/24/senate-votes-to-make-sure-you-cant-sue-your-bank-or-credit-card-companies/

If Trump is an enemy of elites, I shudder to think about what would happen if he decides those elites aren't half-bad after all. 

So far, while Trump might have been better than Hillary in terms of elite-catering, it seems that Obama was better than Trump, with nationalized healthcare and all. Are people still somehow holding out hope that Trump can be a strong force for change instead of just consoling themselves that Trump is better than Hillary would have been? Was Trump really just a case of throwing s*** into the political system and seeing what happens? Because I'm not sure things are working as well as people would have hoped.

I feel like those who were told to believe Trump is an enemy of the elite, friend to LGBT, etc, should be taking a hard look at the sources they relied on. There are a huge number of people who voted for Trump believing him to be someone completely different than who he actually was - and I doubt they came into those beliefs without help. Particularly considering how self-evidently flaky Trump is, just from listening to him or reading his Tweets. Certain media outlets, websites, and soforth spent a lot of time spinning a vision of Trump and the Trump Presidency which was entirely false - but it seems that very few are actually looking back and wondering why that was, or why they should continue to trust those sources. If they do still trust them, that is.

I mean, at least those who voted for Trump because they wanted chaos (whether that's a good idea or not) got more or less what they voted for. But they're probably in the minority, compared to those who bought into deliberate fictions about Trump and his intentions.

Personally, I'm just glad that the Republican Party is so dysfunctional that they've been unable to effectively use the power they won in the election. They're so fractured internally, and so individually busy with their own political maneuvering and scheming, that they've been able to accomplish very little. Considering that their goals were things like taking away healthcare from people, and taxing the poor to give to the rich, this entropic self-stalemate is probably one of the better outcomes that could have occurred here. Not an optimal outcome, to be sure, but still far better than many alternatives.

Time will tell.  It always does.
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10-26-2017, 02:30 AM, (This post was last modified: 10-26-2017, 02:35 AM by APeacefulWarrior.)
#33
RE: Don't trust Trump/I'm leaving this planet
Although I will say that I'm deeply concerned about how bellicose Trump is being towards North Korea. A lot of his antics and executive orders are transient, things which are only of minimal importance or could be undone relatively easily. But sparking a new war in Asia? THAT could be truly devastating, both in terms of lives and in terms of global stability. That's one of the few things that actually could potentially lead to a WWIII.

It would all hinge on how China reacted, and while I think the Chinese leadership is rational enough to take steps to avoid outright war it's certainly not guaranteed. Particularly if Trump was stupid enough to fire first. If North Korea initiated hostility, I'm relatively certain China would turn against them. But if the US were truly the aggressors, anything is possible.

Time will tell.  It always does.
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10-26-2017, 04:45 AM, (This post was last modified: 10-26-2017, 04:49 AM by ScottK.)
#34
RE: Don't trust Trump/I'm leaving this planet
(10-25-2017, 04:45 PM)xise Wrote:  https://consumerist.com/2017/10/24/senate-votes-to-make-sure-you-cant-sue-your-bank-or-credit-card-companies/

If Trump is an enemy of elites, I shudder to think about what would happen if he decides those elites aren't half-bad after all. 

So far, while Trump might have been better than Hillary in terms of elite-catering, it seems that Obama was better than Trump, with nationalized healthcare and all. Are people still somehow holding out hope that Trump can be a strong force for change instead of just consoling themselves that Trump is better than Hillary would have been? Was Trump really just a case of throwing s*** into the political system and seeing what happens? Because I'm not sure things are working as well as people would have hoped.

It looks to me like he's doing extremely well.

Remember what we have though.  Government and the large banks are completely out of control.  It really can't be fixed.  It is consuming itself by consuming the people.  That part is going to get ugly.

Meanwhile, the people are being shown that their government is massively corrupt.  The disclosures happening now are extremely exciting, and show the level of corruption within government.  The JFK files release will undoubtedly be epic.  The Clintons are being thrown under the bus now, and Bush Sr should be next.  Bush Sr was more than likely behind JFK and is the father of the CIA drug running business.

So, the question is now - What does Assange have left to dump (and how is that being hung over Mueller's head since he's complicit in many crimes), and how damning will the JFK files be?  That's the next step as far as I can tell.  The American people have been propagandized to a level never before seen in our times.  So many lies need to be unwound.

This is a factional battle of the elite going down now, and Trump is sort of a double agent.  He supports the winning faction of this factional battle, BUT, that faction, when they "win", won't be able to regain control like they had in the past, and will be completely exposed for those who are not living in denial..  We live in epic times. Catalonia is sort of an example of how this should go down - gov't attempting to control the people while the people say "enough already, we are done with you"..

Current policy stuff going on looks like a big red herring to me.  Maybe it's possible that Trump is trying to lay the groundwork for a federal government that runs on a balanced budget in the distant future, but I doubt that this is all that useful.
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10-26-2017, 05:06 AM, (This post was last modified: 10-26-2017, 05:12 AM by ScottK.)
#35
RE: Don't trust Trump/I'm leaving this planet
(10-25-2017, 04:45 PM)xise Wrote:  it seems that Obama was better than Trump, with nationalized healthcare and all.

I just wanted to respond to this specifically after re-reading..

Obamacare was designed as a control system to get to single payer. They knew when they wrote the bill that, financially, it was going to flop. There's no way it can work. It was to get people hooked on something free so they will demand a full government takeover when the current system falls apart.

A drug dealer who sells addictive drugs would want to give away some free drugs initially - to build a customer base..

A corrupt government solely controlling your health is truly total control.
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10-26-2017, 09:37 PM, (This post was last modified: 10-26-2017, 09:38 PM by unity100.)
#36
RE: Don't trust Trump/I'm leaving this planet
ACA was conceived as something like a single payer system, but before getting out it was turned into a practical way to funnel public cash to private coffers...

Currently it is just a means to take money from people and transfer it to brutal insurance companies which maximize profit at every turn.

However doesnt have anything to do with government takeover. Entire Europe has socialized single payer systems. Huge amount of regulations. Socialized, half-government owned railways, telecommunications companies.

People are happier than US.

........

Personally i'd say Trump lightyears better than Obama so far. Not only all the promises made by Obama regarding change flopped and he was just furthering the neoliberal corporate takeover of entire US, but also he was pushing WW3 by following neocon's foreign policies in Syria and middle east.

Russia has warned of WW3 three times from high offices in that period. One was PM's office, one was High Admiralty, and another was Foreign Office. I may have confused the name of one of the offices.

Here, read below, the untold, unmentioned story of how US Navy faced off Russian, Chinese warships off of Syria in 2013 where WW3 almost happened. At this point the Russian admiral commanding the Russian task force was asked "What will you do if American planes still attack Syria despite you being here", and he responded "I dont think they would go that far to fly over our heads and try attacking Syria", in one Russian news outlet.

http://www.worldaffairsjournal.org/blog/gordon-g-chang/chinese-russian-and-nato-warships-maneuver-syria

Have you ever read that anywhere. Mentioned anywhere? Nope...

Politeness, political correctness does not make positivity. While Obama was giving speeches, saying "Our hearts go out to..." regarding any random incident around the world, he was fostering the CIA plans for overthrowing secular Syrian government by using Islamist sociopaths.

So far Trump defused tensions, Islamists have been almost wiped out, and despite his pompous shows he is even pushing Saudi Arabia to drop islamism. Syrian adventure, Ww3 potential are over.

That is why military-industry complex is SO upset with him, and the supposed liberal mainstream media is yelling at the top of their lungs as their mouthpiece.

Trump was so horrible a president, he was a failure all the way from the start, but at one single point he just dropped some bombs somewhere in Syria, and he suddenly 'became a president' -> that was the crap one of the (major) liberal talking heads in CNN made that night after that bombing. Not bombing - failure. Bomb somewhere - great president. It is so easy.

Hillary Clinton was a walking nuclear war. Even before the start of her primaries she was talking about nothing but Russia, Syria. So much that major gop neocons dropped their own candidate and started fundraising for her.

https://theintercept.com/2016/07/25/robert-kagan-and-other-neocons-back-hillary-clinton/

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/284727-prominent-neoconservative-to-fundraise-for-clinton-report

surrealism at its finest.

..........

All that is expected from Trump at this point are to prevent Ww3, and end Islamism.

These would go a major deal to turn around a lot of things thats going in the wrong direction.
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10-27-2017, 03:57 AM,
#37
RE: Don't trust Trump/I'm leaving this planet
It makes me wonder how things with North Korea will turn out.
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10-27-2017, 03:58 AM, (This post was last modified: 10-27-2017, 04:35 AM by YinYang.)
#38
RE: Don't trust Trump/I'm leaving this planet
PeacefulWarrior Wrote:But sparking a new war in Asia? THAT could be truly devastating, both in terms of lives and in terms of global stability. That's one of the few things that actually could potentially lead to a WWIII.

The US is no longer in a position to threaten, and both China and Russia have made it abundantly clear that they will under no circumstance allow a war on their doorstep. The power balance is such that it will only ever stay with toothless threats from the US. Kim Jong-un has said he will never roll back his nuclear program, so the only card left to play is sanctions, that's it. The power shift from West to East is largely happening economically, and if China rolls out the 'petro-yuan' this year, well let's just say that it will be a huge move against the dollar, and then we'll just have to see how that pans out. If you listened to Xi Jinping’s recent speech at the opening of their National Congress, which was longer than 3 hours! Good heavens!... must have been a staying awake contest... anyway, it gave a good indication of how China's sees itself as the next superpower. The message was clear to the West, and allied with Russia, nothing stands in their way.

That's how it looks to me, and if China wants to maintain their 30 year plan to become the next superpower, they can't allow any regional instability. It's largely about the "One Belt One Road" initiative for them, and any threats to that will be countered. The Syrian intervention was an example of that.
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10-27-2017, 04:14 AM,
#39
RE: Don't trust Trump/I'm leaving this planet
Good, I'd hate to be drafted into war.  I couldn't bring myself to participate in a world war.  I'd rather go to prison than murder other people.

I guess it all comes down to whether or not NK or the US make any actual violent moves against either.
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10-27-2017, 11:29 PM,
#40
RE: Don't trust Trump/I'm leaving this planet
(10-27-2017, 03:57 AM)Coordinate_Apotheosis Wrote:  It makes me wonder how things with North Korea will turn out.

Trump seems to be using NK as a means to ramp up noise so the media will not be able to manufacture crap regarding Middle East and neocon regime change projects. So, possibly nothing is going to happen. Not that it could, with China as NK ally and Russia behind China...
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