Episode #60
07-31-2017, 01:18 PM, (This post was last modified: 07-31-2017, 01:21 PM by Diana.)
#91
RE: Episode #60
(07-31-2017, 04:01 AM)YinYang Wrote:  Diana, I think we are very different, you and I. The way I experienced your post, is I was telling a story which happened to me, and you were going "hush-hush, none of that please". That's control in my view, control which came from 'you'.

While I disagree that I was telling you to "hush-hush," fair enough. My motivation was quite different. But I can see how you would have taken it that way from your point of view.

(07-31-2017, 04:01 AM)YinYang Wrote:  Do you sit around a fire with people, and the stories go from one to the other, and say "oooh no-no please, don't tell that story! Next!" Can you see how that's dismissive? I have no desire to control you, and no desire to "make you nice". I'm actually surprised when you say things like that, when you read that in my posts, like the other day when you said "you don't have that much power over me"... it left me a little perplexed.

Once again, I think I haven't been clear in my posts. I am a bit Spock-like. I will take these things into consideration, but it doesn't change the essence of what I've said.

As far as the campfire, I would enjoy any story except any that involved extreme suffering.

(07-31-2017, 04:01 AM)YinYang Wrote:  I also think you underestimate people's intelligence, as if such a story would suddenly swing them against animals, or engender feelings of separation between them and animals... the people here have lived on planet earth, they have all heard stories of dangerous dogs, or experienced it themselves. They are not of such limited intellect that they would now colour the entire animal kingdom with such a story.

Here I quite disagree. I do not underestimate anyone's intelligence. I think it is you who expects people to understand your meaning without explaining it. The burden is on you (or me) to be clear when speaking, writing, or otherwise communicating. The burden IS NOT on the reader to figure it out. I say this from a business standpoint as well, dealing with clients for many years. If I sent a client an email where they had to interpret or figure out what I was saying, it would confuse things at the least. If I take the time to be really clear, and make it easy for them to understand me, it's a win-win.

(07-31-2017, 04:01 AM)YinYang Wrote:  I don't share in your despair over the conditions we currently have here on earth (a lot of your posts have that vibe), because I have learned a long time ago that such an outlook doesn't serve me well, or anyone else for that matter. I prefer to have a light heart, to laugh, to see the humour in it all.

And here you are judging me and you have no way of knowing me other than words on a screen. I am not in despair. I am just straightforward.

We discuss very serious subjects here. Is it inappropriate to be serious here?

Let me ask you something, did you laugh when reading Jade's experience with the lambs going to slaughter? Was there humor in it?

(07-31-2017, 04:01 AM)YinYang Wrote:  These days we laugh about how Rocky used to run through windows as if there was nothing in his path, it was so bizarre. My dad has never replaced that many windows. We laugh because it makes us a little lighter to choose to see the humour and the lightness in a situation that was out of our control, and fraught with trauma and tears.

It would have been nice if you had 1) explained why you told that story, or 2) added the bits above. You can review your writing and see it objectively or not, and I don't mean to say you will discover I am right or anything like that. But here you have feedback and an opportunity. 

(07-31-2017, 04:01 AM)YinYang Wrote:  As for the domestication of dogs and cats, I think A LOT more light has come from it than dark. Pets have a wonderful and healing effect on people. They lighten people's loneliness who are living alone, they are people's friends and companions. There's a reason we call a dog "man's best friend". You see animals in captivity, I see joy, laughter, humour and companionship. Different perspectives I suppose.

I wasn't talking about pets. Do you see joy, laughter, humor, and companionship in any of the animal situations I did mention? Perhaps someone might say there is some companionship between the bull and the people who feed it before it's tortured in the bull ring, but to me there is no humor in that. I am aware that there are benefits to animals who are loved by humans.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
The following 1 user Likes Diana's post:
xise
08-02-2017, 08:18 AM,
#92
RE: Episode #60
Since I won't be going vegan any time soon, what about organic free range chickens? If they're treated humanely and given proper space and diet That's at-least a little better right?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
The following 1 user Likes Jeremy's post:
xise
08-02-2017, 09:54 AM,
#93
RE: Episode #60
Factory farms are factory farms. Do you actually know how organic, free range chickens live? They still have their beaks clipped. They still live in captivity. They still grind up every single male chick upon birth, alive (egg farms). For meat birds, they are slaughtered at 5 weeks, usually before they even have their adult feathers. They are babies who we have bred to grow into monsters as fast as possible. If we let them live much longer, they start to drop dead of heart attacks, because their heart can't support their gigantic body. Is that the type of life you would wish on anyone?

If you are talking about having your own birds, the wild animals that we domesticated chickens from lay about a dozen eggs a year (a clutch). Then when the clutch is finished, the hen broods the eggs, and has babies. We completely subvert the ability for this animal to naturally raise its young. Laying eggs completely destroys a chicken. It uses so many resources for every egg it lays. I just saw a picture of a rescued hen, who had almost no feathers. They gave her an implant so that she would stop laying eggs, and her body was able to recuperate and grow its feathers back.

Most farm sanctuaries break the eggs and feed them back to the chickens, so that they can recuperate all of the vitamins and minerals that it uses to lay the egg. This is currently the most humane solution.

All farmed chickens suffer a horrendous death. They are suspended by their ankles on a conveyor line, and they are pulled across a giant blade and they have their throats slit while they are conscious. Mammals, we make some attempt to render unconscious before we slit their throat. Chickens don't get this special treatment.

Current industry kill rates for chickens are at least 140 chickens per minute per machine. They are always, constantly, trying to find ways to increase this speed, with no concern for the state of the chickens.

What does "free range" mean? From Wikipedia...

Quote:In the United States, USDA free range regulations currently apply only to poultry and indicate that the animal has been allowed access to the outside.[3] The USDA regulations do not specify the quality or size of the outside range nor the duration of time an animal must have access to the outside.[4]

The term "free range" is mainly used as a marketing term rather than a husbandry term, meaning something on the order of, "low stocking density," "pasture-raised," "grass-fed," "old-fashioned," "humanely raised," etc.

There have been proposals to regulate the USDA the labeling of products as free range within the United States. As of 2017 what constitutes raising an animal "free range" is almost entirely decided by the producer of that product, and is frequently inconsistent with consumer ideas of what the term means.

"Organic" means it must be "free range", otherwise, it only denotes what food it eats and a lack of antibiotics, not how the animal is cared for.

"Free range" is a marketing myth, much like "humane" meat/slaughter, happy cows, etc. Almost every animal you buy to eat comes from a factory farm, period. And these places have absolutely no care for the animals' well beings - the main driver is profit, profit, profit.

I've learned all of this through my own googling, by the way. You can either buy the marketing propaganda from Big Ag, or you can choose to educate yourself about what it really takes to make the products you buy. If you want to support happy, well cared for animals, then you should support farm animals sanctuaries and not factory farms.
There is no magic greater than honest distortion toward love.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
The following 1 user Likes Bring4th_Jade's post:
xise
08-02-2017, 11:01 AM,
#94
RE: Episode #60
Here is a video of a chicken harvester. All large operations use catchers like this. This one is state of the art, and as you can tell from the advertisement they are very proud of how humanely they treat the chickens. How many legs, wings, necks do you think are broken just from being loaded into shipping crates? What other types of harvesters to you think they might use, and how horrifying do you think they might be?





Now also, this is an advertisement. See how clean everything looks, how healthy the birds look?

[Image: ThinkstockPhotos-177736374.jpg]

This is what it actually looks like in a chicken slaughter truck. Disgusting, dirty, half bald birds, pinched between wire cages. In almost every chicken save video I've watched, someone pulls out at least one severed foot/leg that's hanging off on the cage wires. It's horrid, it's cruel, it's disgusting, and animals can sit on these trucks for days. They aren't bathed before we slaughter them. Though, often they are dipped in scalding water to make it easier to remove their fur/feathers (pigs and chickens) while they are still bleeding out. Otherwise, they are skinned while they are bleeding out (cows and sheep).
There is no magic greater than honest distortion toward love.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
The following 1 user Likes Bring4th_Jade's post:
xise
08-02-2017, 01:08 PM,
#95
RE: Episode #60
Ah well that stinks. Thx for the info
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
The following 1 user Likes Jeremy's post:
xise
08-09-2017, 12:30 PM,
#96
RE: Episode #60
Uh, this is a little odd. It seems like maybe we've collectively generated some catalyst...

Slaughter truck carrying pigs overturns and catches fire in Louisville, KY
There is no magic greater than honest distortion toward love.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply




Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)