Assessing the Ra material
10-11-2017, 01:21 PM, (This post was last modified: 10-11-2017, 01:22 PM by GentleWanderer.)
#1
Assessing the Ra material
I'm sure most of the people at B4 consider the LoO to be one of the most pure and undistorted source available on earth.
It's undeniable it contains a huge amount of positive and transformative teachings. However, more than one i've heard
a priori advanced and positive seekers sharing their concern about the material. I've heard a devoted seeker warning about
the negatives energies he felt in the books. An other talked about the possibility of more than one entities/smc being channelled,
including some non benevolent. What's your take ?

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Ankh
10-11-2017, 01:36 PM,
#2
RE: Assessing the Ra material
(10-11-2017, 01:21 PM)GentleWanderer Wrote:  I'm sure most of the people at B4 consider the LoO to be one of the most pure and undistorted source available on earth.
It's undeniable it contains a huge amount of positive and transformative teachings.

However, more than one i've heard a priori advanced and positive seekers sharing their concern about the material. I've heard a devoted seeker warning about the negatives energies he felt in the books.

An other talked about the possibility of more than one entities/smc being channelled, including some non benevolent.

I don't felt anything negative in the material (and by the way, I'm brazilian and here there are heavy books with relates of the umbral very dark, so the energy is much more dense than a normal book). Ra never gived an "heavy impression" in any response, even when Ra spoked about negative themes, your unity vision always neutralized the negative impression of the dark themes.
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10-11-2017, 01:42 PM, (This post was last modified: 10-11-2017, 03:43 PM by Aion.)
#3
RE: Assessing the Ra material
I presume this thread was partially prompted by this other one: https://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=14848

My thoughts more or less are there in that thread and I will mostly leave it at that. I think there are thoughtful messages in the material and some great poetic expression but by and large I don't subscribe to much of it anymore. I still am immersed in the thought of unity, love and joy, I just don't base it in this material anymore. I think there are some great insights in the material and some good descriptions of certain mechanics.

Also, to note, while I do have theories, I'm not settled on any exact explanation for my perceptions. They are just various considerations I have mulled over. Just something always feels off.

I have been reeading it again and it's still the same, I get that blast of light and everything seems clear but there that weird itching, like there are 'seams' to it. I'll just have to keep reading to maybe find out. I think if the material were stripped of everything pertaining to "Ra" it wouldn't be changed that much, but the identity of Ra is what 'vivifies' the whole thing. If it was just 'the Creator" or "God" or something I don't think it would stand out as much. There is something about 'rewriting history' that seems to have a powerful effect on people and I see this happening through Ra's cosmology and history.

I find when the group asks questions about magical practice or philosophy the light signal becomes much clearer, but especially in the earlier sessions when they are asking about their origins it wavers a lot.
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10-11-2017, 05:19 PM,
#4
RE: Assessing the Ra material
Without knowing more about the specific objections, or about the specific characteristics of the speakers, it's hard to say. Personally, I think we need to get out of this rut of putting information like this in one bucket labelled "good" or "bad". L/L Research material does not have to be all things for all people, and if one is trusting others' feelings over one's own, then there's a categorically different issue at work than negative material.

Reactions to the Seth material are similar. I think the more philosophical and detached-sounding New Age stuff gets, the more nefarious it feels to some people, especially if they're used to a lot of sentimentality in their spirituality. IMHO a lot of theosophical work drops into negative territory, and that stuff tends to focus on technicalities rather than heart. But an infallible metric that rule most certainly is not.

Jeremy
It is not that love will tell you what to do.
It is that love will tell you how to do it with love.
Q'uo 3/19/06
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10-11-2017, 05:31 PM,
#5
RE: Assessing the Ra material
Yeah at best we can say it is mixed or has the potential to be interpreted in different and sometimes opposing ways. That is true for almost any spiritual work though, there are always different viewpoints. I think, as usual, the best approach is to remain empty of static content and instead treat it as more of a dynamic tool which could be used in multiple ways. There are things I see in it that others may not and vice versa, I think the key is just so long as we don't start hating eachother over our differences. However, what is somewhat troubling is that there has been some separation due to the material and while it has 'united' certain types of individuals together it seems to be this duality of 'who's aware of unity' vs 'who's not aware of unity'. It's all pretty weird, to be honest.
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10-11-2017, 06:42 PM, (This post was last modified: 10-11-2017, 06:53 PM by xise.)
#6
RE: Assessing the Ra material
My guess would be that a lot of people fear feeling energies. More than one person that I know, as they read the material upon my suggestion, have felt energies in their chakras, and usually, if they're not used to feeling energies there, it can be quite a scary and unfamiliar feeling. There also could be an additional fear of certain mystical experiences and I think reading the Ra material for the first time is certainly a mystical experience - I know personally I have a small fear having my third eye open to the extent that I can see negative entities. 

I don't really fear reading spiritual philosophies that involve a download of information, and my take on the energies is that it's a full-scale download of information, into your conscious and subconscious mind, because there is so much there. Actually, the subconscious stuff and fear of mystical experiences would fit with the recent Ra-related dream I had as well - it seems Ra likes working in Dreams and with the subconscious. 

But to bring it back the OP's title, I think the way you assess the material is by the philosophy - does it make sense, does it resonate, does it lead to absurd/terrible actions, etc. Ra makes clear at multiple times that the important material is the philosophical material about spiritual evolution, and as such I think that's the area you assess it by.

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10-12-2017, 02:07 AM, (This post was last modified: 10-12-2017, 02:09 AM by Aion.)
#7
RE: Assessing the Ra material
True, and I think for myself that there is a certain heart of what is in the material that still speaks to me, and hence why I still read it and ponder upon it. However I also admit to some philosophical bias just due to my own background and philosophies that I am intimately more connected to so more often than not when I am called to the material it is to supplement another field of thought rather than being the object of contemplation in itself.

I think for myself what I am starting to see it as a Choice, which would make perfect sense with the whole material. Of course both positive and negative in the material. Ra themselves said they have unified and harmonized both positive and negative. (Whether or not that is true I suppose is still a matter that could be debated.) So, it seems to me that it is true that it kind of forces one in to a funnel of choice due to the fact that one of the primary cruxes of the material is polarity. This is kind of ironic considering it is supposed to be about the Law of One and yet polarity is talked about by Ra as a key to magical development. It is one of the keys to magical working.

The part that 'red flags' for me is earlier sessions as I said where they are talking about Ra as Venusians and the Egyptians and really Ra discussing their own origin all reads as off. I guess the issue is really that I don't see how a message can really be separated from the messenger. That seems like intentional ignorance for the sake of validation and comfort. So even though they do say things that resonate with me, there are also things which feel very off and not everything 'makes sense'. Most of the things that do make sense are only because I have other concepts from other philosophies which fill in the gaps. Some of the concepts are certainly counter intuitive and lack context if you aren't already familiar with metaphysics.

So, I guess in conclusion it is an interesting and useful mirror which can reflect both shadow and light. I'm not sure the genuinity of Ra's story is as impactful as narrative itself but there is no doubt that it is a primary point of contention, almost like a divider of 'belivers' and 'non-believers'. I don't think that was the intention in the material but more just a collective artifact from years of religious fanaticism ingrained in the collective consciousness.

The question, I suppose, is why is this choice important, and what is the significance or impact of it being presented to us?
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10-12-2017, 04:53 AM,
#8
RE: Assessing the Ra material
(10-11-2017, 01:21 PM)GentleWanderer Wrote:  I'm sure most of the people at B4 consider the LoO to be one of the most pure and undistorted source available on earth.
It's undeniable it contains a huge amount of positive and transformative teachings. However, more than one i've heard
a priori advanced and positive seekers sharing their concern about the material. I've heard a devoted seeker warning about
the negatives energies he felt in the books. An other talked about the possibility of more than one entities/smc being channelled,
including some non benevolent. What's your take ?

I love your quote fro Lao Tzu,
with RA material  if its rings true great keep it or only if some parts or all of it doesnt thats great too Big Grin 
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10-12-2017, 09:30 AM, (This post was last modified: 10-12-2017, 09:34 AM by Nau7ik.)
#9
RE: Assessing the Ra material
It may be due to the beginning of the contact when Don was questioning off topic. He was detuning the contact. Sometimes the answers did not begin with "I am Ra." They eventually, quickly, realized that they were detuning the contact because Ra was giving them hints (your alignments are off). Yet even then, the information was trivial.

Other than that, no I don't see negative influence in the Ra material. I'm very critical when it comes to spiritual information. I can't ignore something that doesn't sound right, as much as I might want to. It's dishonest and just I dont allow it.
The Law of One is a positive contact. The information is positively oriented.

What specifically is questionable? No example was given...

Q'uo:
Quote:We, as always, would ask you to do us a small favor: to use your discrimination in assessing the value of the words and the thoughts that we impart to you, taking those that have value to you, and leaving those behind that do not. In this way, you give us the freedom to share that which is ours to share.
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rva_jeremy
10-12-2017, 01:40 PM,
#10
RE: Assessing the Ra material
I started writing a fairly long post, but eventually decided not to post it. I think it is most important for people to come to their own conclusions in whatever form that may take. Since I have no interest in refuting or debunking I will just keep my thoughts to myself on the matter.
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10-12-2017, 04:02 PM, (This post was last modified: 10-12-2017, 04:03 PM by GentleWanderer.)
#11
RE: Assessing the Ra material
(10-12-2017, 01:40 PM)Aion Wrote:  I started writing a fairly long post, but eventually decided not to post it. I think it is most important for people to come to their own conclusions in whatever form that may take. Since I have no interest in refuting or debunking I will just keep my thoughts to myself on the matter.

Your point of view would have been interesting Cool

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10-12-2017, 04:53 PM,
#12
RE: Assessing the Ra material
(10-12-2017, 04:02 PM)GentleWanderer Wrote:  
(10-12-2017, 01:40 PM)Aion Wrote:  I started writing a fairly long post, but eventually decided not to post it. I think it is most important for people to come to their own conclusions in whatever form that may take. Since I have no interest in refuting or debunking I will just keep my thoughts to myself on the matter.

Your point of view would have been interesting  Cool

Aha There is no doubt that some may find it so, but I took a step back and assessed my intentions in this regard and I feel that much of what I have to say will be taken as 'nitpicking'. As such, it is not my desire to inspire any sort of conflict, especially over what some might view as minor points, so if anyone really wants to know what I think they can open that discussion in a personal message.

Truth be told I'm just kind of tired of the debate and it has come up so many times over the last number of years that I don't have the energy to keep picking at it. In general I have made my thoughts known. I have no point to make or any desire to dissaude others from making use of the material. I have no need to affirm or deny its validity, that isn't my responsibility.

As ever, I just want people to think for themselves, to question everything and to look deep beyond the surface. Whatever they see and discover in that regard is their personal experience.
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10-12-2017, 05:30 PM, (This post was last modified: 10-12-2017, 05:32 PM by GentleWanderer.)
#13
RE: Assessing the Ra material
A thing that makes me think is the tragic story of the group and Don Elkins. Why does this have happened to positive seekers, is it only because of the loyal opposition or some kind of error done ? Why does it happens i hear about people starting to have strong attacks after they came in contact with the LoO ? Surely a positive being can attract negative attention but does it has to succumb to it ? I'm enticed to draw the parallel to known teachers, some always stayed pure could be annoyed but not destroyed by neg entities while the others who didn't stayed impeccable like osho or Frederick Lenz had to pay the price.
What about Ra validating equally both the positive and the negative path when our greatest teachers such as Buddha and Jesus only approved the positive path.

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10-12-2017, 05:40 PM,
#14
RE: Assessing the Ra material
(10-11-2017, 01:21 PM)GentleWanderer Wrote:  I've heard a devoted seeker warning about
the negatives energies he felt in the books. An other talked about the possibility of more than one entities/smc being channelled,
including some non benevolent. What's your take ?

Foremost, the book is quite different from the general 'everything is okay, you are special, all will be alright' style of many spiritual channeling and works. For people who are used to that kind of channeling, Ra material appears cold and stiff on first sight.

Second, it is quite direct, sharp. There isnt mincing of words, there isnt sugar coating, there isnt any earlier preparation for giving information that may be upsetting the seeker's established biases and perspective. Immediate subconscious reaction of many people to such upsetting of their framework of reference, their understanding of life and existence, would be adverse, ranging from wariness to hostility. Psychologically, in cases of threat, the source of the threat is generally evaluated as an enemy, or evil.

Third, compatibility of the person with the knowledge presented and energy represented by the material may invite relevant high vibration energies, or, the interest in spiritual literature as such may invite high vibration energies not particularly pertaining to Ra material, but the entity's own spiritual higher resources, and this arrival/approach of higher vibrations may cause a reaction in the existing negative or non positive thought forms, spiritual entities or people which the reader has in his immediate environment, spiritual (incarnate and discincarnate) or social circle.

Arrival/approach of energies are written in conjunction, because approach of any kind of energy or mobilization of that energy to travel to a location would affect time/space in that location readily. Like an 'intent', or a 'cause'.
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10-12-2017, 05:44 PM,
#15
RE: Assessing the Ra material
Quote:Aha There is no doubt that some may find it so, but I took a step back and assessed my intentions in this regard and I feel that much of what I have to say will be taken as 'nitpicking'. As such, it is not my desire to inspire any sort of conflict, especially over what some might view as minor points, so if anyone really wants to know what I think they can open that discussion in a personal message.

Ideally that kind of thing doesn't need to happen. We're here to try to share and understand to the best of our ability.

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10-12-2017, 05:55 PM, (This post was last modified: 10-12-2017, 06:07 PM by Aion.)
#16
RE: Assessing the Ra material
(10-12-2017, 05:30 PM)GentleWanderer Wrote:  A thing that makes me think is the tragic story of the group and Don Elkins. Why does this have happened to positive seekers, is it only because of the loyal opposition or some kind of error done ? Why does it happens i hear about people starting to have strong attacks after they came in contact with the LoO ? Surely a positive being can attract negative attention
but does it has to succumb to it ? I'm enticed to draw the parallel to known teachers, some always stayed pure could be annoyed but not destroyed by neg entities while the others who didn't stayed impeccable like osho or Frederick Lenz had to pay the price.
What about Ra validating equally both the positive and the negative path when our greatest teachers such as Buddha and Jesus only approved the positive path.

In my opinion, I think that a lot of people who are attracted to New Age channelings and teachings aren't actually usually familiar with classical philosophy and spirituality. People talk about chakras and stuff all the time, but how many do you think have read traditional yogic literature on it? Only a handful in my experience. I have barely even, so I don't talk about chakras unless someone else is using them and it's the only point of reference.

However, what you will find is that there is a theme of suffering that takes place on both sides. In classical philosophy there is not as much emphasis on this simplified concept of duality in terms of service. It is wrapped up in 'good and evil' and 'order and chaos' plenty though. I think that while the material is certainly fascinating, the question of how practical or useful it is really comes down to subjective interaction with it. It only seems to be as useful as the person is able to make use of it.

It is true that Ra 'validates' the negative path in a manner (which magically could produce a subconscious idea or bias that could act as an open invitation, like inviting a vampire in to your home) but by that same token the manner in which Ra describes the negative path is... shallow. It is odd to me that for as much detail and meticulousness they go in to to express their own standpoint they are actually incredibly blunt regarding "the Orion entities". Implying that their only desire is conquest and that is all. (Well they pretty much say this.) It just seems strangely 'absolute' compared to how they usually talk about things. Maybe just an issue of oversimplification.

I even had the thought if wouldn't it be funny if Ra was an imposter and the 'Orion entity' was actually a positive entity who was trying to help Carla and the group and all her symptoms weren't actually from 'attacks' but were the backlash of the "Ra" entity trying to hold on to her consciousness. In every situation the prime characteristic that Ra gives to negatives is that they are 'clever'. They also say a common ploy is for the negative to energize the heart and confuse the indigo. Then make such statements that Love is all the protection you need. They always withheld just enough information to maintain confusion, which they of course profess is their positive orientation and respect for free will.

I want to ask, does it seem like as the material progresses the group gets more clear and less confused, or do they seem more confused by the end? It seems to me that by the end of it they were in a more distorted state than when they started and that is something that concerns me. There are numerous times when the group seemed backed in to a corner where the ultimatum was either 'continue' or 'lose the contact' and there just seems to be this strong implication that it is such an enourmous service and such a rare opportunity that how could you possibly quit now? Yet, if they were truly balancing love and wisdom, wouldn't they have cared more for the well-being of Carla and Don than about the contact?

I think they may have been lead in to martyrdom and it might not have just been a choice they made just due to their own natures. Was it worth it?

In my humble opinion, I think the loss wasn't worth the gain, but that's just me.
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10-12-2017, 06:04 PM,
#17
RE: Assessing the Ra material
(10-12-2017, 05:30 PM)GentleWanderer Wrote:  A thing that makes me think is the tragic story of the group and Don Elkins.

Of all the things that indicate any hint of negativity, it is the price Don Elkins paid -- I think it comes as quite a shock to first-time readers, I know it did to me -- and the part about displacing MBS complexes in negative time/space.  I really wonder why the stuff about the 5th density negative visitor was not transient, why those of Ra volunteered this information, since there's nothing specific to be done about it, and it only can cause fear.

Jeremy
It is not that love will tell you what to do.
It is that love will tell you how to do it with love.
Q'uo 3/19/06
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10-12-2017, 06:10 PM, (This post was last modified: 10-12-2017, 06:21 PM by Aion.)
#18
RE: Assessing the Ra material
(10-12-2017, 06:04 PM)rva_jeremy Wrote:  
(10-12-2017, 05:30 PM)GentleWanderer Wrote:  A thing that makes me think is the tragic story of the group and Don Elkins.

Of all the things that indicate any hint of negativity, it is the price Don Elkins paid -- I think it comes as quite a shock to first-time readers, I know it did to me -- and the part about displacing MBS complexes in negative time/space.  I really wonder why the stuff about the 5th density negative visitor was not transient, why those of Ra volunteered this information, since there's nothing specific to be done about it, and it only can cause fear.

There is also the fact of their implying that the most positive route is to simply love the entity at all times, and thus refrained from sharing its identity, even when Don asked they made a statement which implied that if they knew its name that that in itself would tempt them to the negative path. There are many times where Ra makes statements which offer a choice, but which clearly imply which is 'the positive' one. This is where I see it strange that Ra seemed to become biased towards Love and not Wisdom, yet they have already progressed beyond those densities? There are just little nudges here and there that make me go, "why did they do that?" Aren't they actually influencing their free will more by WITHHOLDING information? If they were given all the details they could make a fully informed decision, but it seems to be up to Ra how much is too much. That's not very positive and transparent in my eyes. All predicated on Ra's 'higher' position in 6D so of course they can see the possibilities and probabilities and already know what the group 'might' do and so clearly need to damage control before anything happens, right? I dunno, seems weird to me. It all seems to just reinforce trust in the narrative. Ra never makes any statements like Q'uo about 'take what resonates and leave what doesn't', they speak with more absolutes.

Also there are times where Don straight up asks about something and Ra says "No", and forces him to 'try and figure it out himself', but isn't Don asking the question trying to gain more understanding? It just seems Ra's openness wavers at their convenience.

As Unity100 suggested above, the bluntness of the material is sure to rub plenty of people the wrong way at first interaction, but I've been reading the material for years and I think I'd fairly say that that is not what makes it feel off for me. I don't come from a background of bubbly new age philosophy so I never had that pre-conception.
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10-12-2017, 06:54 PM,
#19
RE: Assessing the Ra material
I find it fascinating to see the differing perspectives we all have regarding the same material. Personally I just drop whatever I do not like from the material without letting any of it detract me from absorbing the parts I do like. Just like I do with the new testament.

"You are not here to fix it... You are here to love it." ~ Q'uo
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hounsic
10-12-2017, 06:57 PM,
#20
RE: Assessing the Ra material
Well, like I said, I still read it, aha.
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10-12-2017, 08:20 PM,
#21
RE: Assessing the Ra material
I had a thought the other day and I think here is as good of a place as any to address it.

Aion, you bring up how the group seems more distorted towards the end than they were at the beginning, and that may be true. There are plenty of places where Ra explains the weakening of the chinks in the group - particularly, the deleterious energy exchange Don and Carla had exchanging their weaknesses with each other which made them extremely vulnerable. They faced many subsequent initiations through their process of channeling Ra and obviously struggled with these challenges.

But the specific thing I was thinking about was the sighting of the hawk. Unobjectively, it was the vision of the hawk by the group that led to Don's eventual suicide. If you aren't intimate with the situation, the group was being kicked out of their dwelling by their landlord, and had to find a new place to live that was more convenient for them. They had found what they thought was the perfect house, and when they arrived back home in their excitement, a hawk landed on their porch directly in front of them, paused for a few moments, then flew off.

Carla and Jim took this as a direct confirmation from Ra of the sureness of their plans. Don created a doubt within himself and told himself that the hawk was a negative sign - that if they hadn't seen the hawk, they would have went forward with their plans. But the hawk's appearance threw a wrench into it, so Don thought that the house was no good.

To me this conveyed the fragility of discarnate, higher density entities involving themselves on our plane, even with confirmations or synchronicities, and the way it affects our free will. Ra obviously just wanted to offer a reassurance to the group, and instead, the vision eventually drove Don to insanity. Another instance of naive Ra trying to do right but causing more distortions.

Ra is not perfect, though I think by default we put them on that pedestal. But even Ra says that they have millions of soul fragments incarnate as Wanderers right now on earth - showing that they still endeavor to achieve balance.

I think a lot of the paradoxes espoused here in this thread about Ra not infringing on the group's free will can be resolved by reading Tilting at Windmills and learning more about the group's process and experiences. The group is not infallible. There are multiple instances of serious advice administered by Ra that went ignored - for instance, the group never took the step to do formal meditation together on a daily basis. They kept their meditations separate even though Ra suggested they meditated together more. This is just one example.

As far as my assessment of the Ra material, I would agree with Jeremy that it comes to resonance, and I feel a very strong resonance. I also believe Aion's point that duality and multiple available interpretations are coded into the material as a preservation of free will. Ra couldn't just step down into Carla and present everything succinctly and take away the choice for everyone else to make. Ra just wanted to offer a magical energy full of food for thought, to help aid the harvest. I'm going to make a faithful guess and assume that the material has done far more good for the fate of humanity than not - but that could be naivete. In thinking of the singular, it has done immense good for me in my life, so in the macrocosm it must also be so. Angel
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10-12-2017, 08:43 PM, (This post was last modified: 10-12-2017, 08:53 PM by Aion.)
#22
RE: Assessing the Ra material
I would like to also point out that in Egyptian mythology the Hawk originally is the bird of Horus and Ra actually has a Falcon head originally, I just always found that kind of interesting. Especially since Ra became especially prominent as Ra-Horus and whom is also a central figure in Thelema. Now they are pretty much interchangeable and you'll see both falcon and hawk associated with both of them.

I largely agree with your assessment as the fulcrum of what most likely the turning point for the group. Really, we can only speculate so far and in my experience meeting Carla and Jim I never got the slightest feeling of negativity from either, only bright and positive, so I would like to be clear that there was something specifically that was weird in that contact and it wasn't a product of either of those individuals. Obviously there is no way I could have met Don so I can only be agnostic at best on what the ultimate dynamic was there,
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10-12-2017, 10:13 PM,
#23
RE: Assessing the Ra material
(10-12-2017, 06:04 PM)rva_jeremy Wrote:  Of all the things that indicate any hint of negativity, it is the price Don Elkins paid -- I think it comes as quite a shock to first-time readers, I know it did to me -- and the part about displacing MBS complexes in negative time/space.

I have the feeling that what passed with Don possibly has various karmic tenets related to past lives, relationships with others, spiritual path followed.

His situation seems to have come to the fore after the 'transfer' incident, in which he wished to be of help to Carla by sharing her burden or something like that. After that, he started to feel much sorrow, many overloaded emotions and so on. Ra explained that Don was now manifesting as part of Carla's being or something like that. I wasnt able to find the reference in lawofone.info. At some point there was even some remark regarding Don's amazement about Carla being able to live in such a world with so much sorrow and suffering. And also i remember how after that point Carla was a bit averse to him, putting some distance in between her and Don.

It seems to me that at one point they have merged in time/space, and this was not manageable for Don, who was not used to a world filled with so much emotions, especially suffering.

It has been quite some time since i read book V, and chapters relevant to what's above (probably some from book iv maybe), so i may not be getting some details right. However i remember the general flow of events.

All of these situations, and the fact that Don was diving way deep into the structure of mind towards the end, give me the impression that these stuff were related to pre-incarnational arrangements.
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10-13-2017, 09:39 AM, (This post was last modified: 10-13-2017, 09:43 AM by Nau7ik.)
#24
RE: Assessing the Ra material
Yeah, I'm just going to avoid these threads from now on. I've already made my thoughts known. There's always people trying to dissuade one from the material or to question it's validity. (How do I know if some of y'all aren't agents here for the purpose of sowing seeds of discord and disharmony? Trying to remove the light? I'm splitting hairs and not being serious. But there ya go.) Well we don't really know, do we? How do you know anything is valid and true? You don't. You subjectively know for yourself.

How do we know Jesus was actually positive? How we know if the Buddha wasn't just a charlatan? I think there's a lot of confusion and people don't trust themselves. You can get stuck into questioning the validity of everything and go in circles and get no where in terms of spiritual development. Or you can step off the cliff into unknowing and be held up by faith. Has the material produced results for you? For me, yes, more so than anything else.

You are the judge. You are the authority.
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10-13-2017, 11:24 AM, (This post was last modified: 10-13-2017, 11:25 AM by Aion.)
#25
RE: Assessing the Ra material
As I said earlier, "As ever, I just want people to think for themselves, to question everything and to look deep beyond the surface. Whatever they see and discover in that regard is their personal experience."

I'll admit I only opened up some of my thoughts because I was asked by individuals. Otherwise these things would likely not be mentioned.
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10-13-2017, 01:36 PM,
#26
RE: Assessing the Ra material
(10-12-2017, 10:13 PM)unity100 Wrote:  All of these situations, and the fact that Don was diving way deep into the structure of mind towards the end, give me the impression that these stuff were related to pre-incarnational arrangements.

I have the same interpretation and agree substantially with you; I'm simply pointing out that it would be quite easy to, say, dismiss the whole thing because of the perceived imbalance in those final chapters.

Similarly, I still struggle sometimes with the fear of MBS complex displacement in negative time/space -- not so much because I'm afraid it will occur to me as I fear there is an aspect to the "all is well" tenet that is somehow a trick or a shallow adage unequal to the gravity of reality. It's a similar situation with the effect of nuclear devices on MBS complexes, essentially taking them back to first density. I do not usually correlate all being well with such abject fragility.

Intellectually I explain it to myself that all is well from the Creator's point of view, and we reflect that security when we identify with a larger, more unified point of view. I'm also coming to slowly understand that the entire mentality of seeking security in and of itself is a kind of stumbling block. Nevertheless, I must be sympathetic to others who see that level of harshness as indicative of something truly fearful.

Jeremy
It is not that love will tell you what to do.
It is that love will tell you how to do it with love.
Q'uo 3/19/06
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10-13-2017, 04:55 PM, (This post was last modified: 10-13-2017, 04:58 PM by GentleWanderer.)
#27
RE: Assessing the Ra material
(10-13-2017, 09:39 AM)Nau7ik Wrote:  Yeah, I'm just going to avoid these threads from now on. I've already made my thoughts known. There's always people trying to dissuade one from the material or to question it's validity. (How do I know if some of y'all aren't agents here for the purpose of sowing seeds of discord and disharmony? Trying to remove the light? I'm splitting hairs and not being serious. But there ya go.)  Well we don't really know, do we? How do you know anything is valid and true? You don't. You subjectively know for yourself.

How do we know Jesus was actually positive? How we know if the Buddha wasn't just a charlatan? I think there's a lot of confusion and people don't trust themselves. You can get stuck into questioning the validity of everything and go in circles and get no where in terms of spiritual development. Or you can step off the cliff into unknowing and be held up by faith. Has the material produced results for you? For me, yes, more so than anything else.

You are the judge. You are the authority.

Nothing too serious there. We each have our own background, personality, desires and particular way of seeing the world. It's normal wanting to try to understand and clarify some or others things. We don't need to have the same opinion and personally i don't need to believe that any individual including myself can be always 100% right. It's just a matter of sharing in a open and honest way and i think if we do that, no matter how different our perspective are, something positive can emerge from it.

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As soon as you have made a thought, laugh at it.   Lao Tzu

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10-13-2017, 07:20 PM,
#28
RE: Assessing the Ra material
(10-11-2017, 01:21 PM)GentleWanderer Wrote:  I'm sure most of the people at B4 consider the LoO to be one of the most pure and undistorted source available on earth.
It's undeniable it contains a huge amount of positive and transformative teachings. However, more than one i've heard
a priori advanced and positive seekers sharing their concern about the material. I've heard a devoted seeker warning about
the negatives energies he felt in the books. An other talked about the possibility of more than one entities/smc being channelled,
including some non benevolent. What's your take ?

Good questions! 

I do believe too that this material is one of the most pure and undistorted sources available on Earth. And to answer your question, just *because of it being just that* it contains *that particular light or energy* which, when it enters the seeker and awakening within it that inner same light, needs to be balanced. So, if there is in the seeker any distortions which are in the direct opposition compared to the teach/learning of the LOO, then these need to be balanced before any progression can be made. 

I have not felt any negative energies when studying this material personally, except those which had to do with personal blockages or distortions. 

I have studied this material for seven years, feeling its light and energy within, but I have not this far encountered that any other than Ra social memory complex have spoken through the instrument this far. I might be wrong of course. But this is my take and experience so far.

At the end, I've heard many people saying this or that about the material, the language spoken etc., but my take, to answer your question, is that it does not matter how pure or undistorted another group of people finds it or not, the only thing that matters is - that very *greatest service that one can do for itself and others* - which is to take *only* what resonates within the self, and leave the rest aside in that particular material or any other sources. *Regardless* of what people say about its purity. Creation is infinite. And there is always, *always* space for variation.
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10-13-2017, 09:28 PM,
#29
RE: Assessing the Ra material
(10-13-2017, 01:36 PM)rva_jeremy Wrote:  Similarly, I still struggle sometimes with the fear of MBS complex displacement in negative time/space -- not so much because I'm afraid it will occur to me as I fear there is an aspect to the "all is well" tenet that is somehow a trick or a shallow adage unequal to the gravity of reality.

The totality of the entity should be conscious and in full capacity in such cases. It is so that even when Don asked certain pieces of information, Ra mentioned that that information was guarded very vigorously by the totality of particular entity. Hence, not available. We know that totality places any given entity in whatever experience nexus (anywhere in creation) after harvest is done too.

Thus, the totality is able to extract and place an entity (lest its bodies) anywhere.

This concludes that if any mbs complex displacement to negative space time happens, or if any entity gets destroyed in a nuclear blast, the totality is aware of the incident and has power to negate the incident.

What happens in the case of nuclear blast is a bit questionable, however in the case of mbs displacement, this must be so. Therefore the placement would evaluate to the personal choice of the mbs complex (the entity) itself...



(10-12-2017, 06:10 PM)Aion Wrote:  There is also the fact of their implying that the most positive route is to simply love the entity at all times, and thus refrained from sharing its identity, even when Don asked they made a statement which implied that if they knew its name that that in itself would tempt them to the negative path.

Which incident was that?
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10-13-2017, 11:06 PM, (This post was last modified: 10-13-2017, 11:15 PM by Aion.)
#30
RE: Assessing the Ra material
Quote:85.4 Questioner: What is the nature of this crisis?

Ra: I am Ra. The nature of this crisis is the determination of the relative polarity of your companion and yourselves. You are in the position of being in the third-density illusion and consequently having the conscious collective magical ability of the neophyte, whereas your companion is most adept. However, the faculties of will and faith and the calling to the light have been used by this group to the exclusion of any significant depolarization from the service-to-others path.

If your companion can possibly depolarize this group it must do so and that quickly, for in this unsuccessful attempt at exploring the wisdom of separation it is encountering some depolarization. This shall continue. Therefore, the efforts of your companion are pronounced at this space/time and time/space nexus.

85.5 Questioner: I am totally aware of the lack of necessity or even rational need for naming of entities or things. I was wondering if this particular entity had a name just so that we could increase our efficiency of communicating with respect to him. Does he have a name?

Ra: I am Ra. Yes.

85.6 Questioner: Would it be magically bad for us to know that name, or would it make no difference?

Ra: I am Ra. It would make a difference.

85.7 Questioner: What would the difference be?

Ra: I am Ra. If one wishes to have power over an entity it is an aid to know that entity’s name. If one wishes no power over an entity but wishes to collect that entity into the very heart of one’s own being it is well to forget the naming. Both processes are magically viable. Each is polarized in a specific way. It is your choice.

Hint, hint. Ra knows full well what polarity they are striving for. I find it odd to consider that they suggest the mere fact of knowing the entity's name would be 'polarized a specific way'. I presume because naming is an act of separation? It is true that generally Ra doesn't use names but rather functions like 'instrument', 'questioner', etc,

Anyways, these times where Ra offers a choice, but it's really obvious what the group's intention was I find peculiar.
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