Episode #98

[Bring4th_Austin]

Episode #98


In this episode, we discuss:
- We explore the Spiral Dynamics system and how it relates to the Perrenial Philosophy and the Law of One.
* Featuring Doug Scott, MA, MSW, a mental health professional and theologian. Find more of his work at www.cosmicchrist.net.

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Feel free to discuss this episode in this thread!

[Spaced]

I was listening to this one while doing the dishes over the past few days (it was a long one ) and I really enjoyed it. I remember people talking about spiral dynamics on this forum ages ago but never really looked into it. Seems like an interesting layout of personal and social development. As someone who is interested in history I thought it was very interesting how you could trace the stages through historical periods, but I was wondering if the progression is always forward. It seems to me that there are times when society may have regressed to a previous stage. The Bronze age saw a lot of forward development that may have reached the blue and possibly a little orange stage before the bronze age collapse reverted to red. Similarly the Greek city states and the Roman Empire might be seen as blue with hints of orange as well before the collapse and partition into feudal states. I suppose the same could occur on the individual level?

Also there was some talk about how general Patton could have increased in positive polarization but decreased in harvestability during his lifetime. My personal take on that is that he polarized positively through strong yellow ray work, I think he contributed positively to society by helping defeat the Nazis, but that his heart may have become closed due to hatred of the enemy. An open heart is a requirement for harvest in addition to the 51% positive polarity, is it not?

Anyway, thanks gang and thanks to Doug.

[Anders]

I have doubts about that the green ray Ra talks about can be equated to stage Green in Spiral Dynamics. As I understand it, green-ray activation is what enables a service-to-others social memory complex. That's a collective consciousness, a superorganism, way above even the second tier in Spiral Dynamics.

[Anders]

Maybe I should explain my perspective. They talked in the podcast about looking at things from different stages. Well, in this case I'm looking at it from an outrageously high perspective. I'm myself in ego consciousness so this is a form of fake it till you make it approach by me.

Picture, if you will, a married couple where both partners are at stage Yellow in Spiral Dynamics. Their marriage is going fairly well and they have only been close to a divorce once over a period of several years. From my perspective that kind of relationship is puny! And it's a total mess of conflicts.

In my other scenario we have trillions of cells coopering in harmony to make up the human body. Contrast that to only two individuals (the marriage example) hardly being able to have harmony in their relationship.

And a social memory complex is to me like the difference between separate cells and a whole multicellular organism. Spiral Dynamics in this analogy is about separate cells, while a social memory complex (of service-to-others kind) is like a multicellular organism. Even an individual at stage Turquoise in Spiral Dynamics is still like a single cell compared to the capacity of a whole human body. It's a humongous evolutionary leap into an entirely new level of organization. Dr. Bruce Lipton has described what he calls fractal evolution about a similar principle.

In this short video Bruce Lipton talks about fractal evolution applied to humanity:

[Patrick]

I have doubts about that the green ray Ra talks about can be equated to stage Green in Spiral Dynamics. As I understand it, green-ray activation is what enables a service-to-others social memory complex. That's a collective consciousness, a superorganism, way above even the second tier in Spiral Dynamics.

The colors of Spiral Dynamics are not the same as the true colors of the densities. Spiral Dynamics has chosen arbitrary colors just for contrast.

http://www.integralworld.net/dillard2.html

[Anders]

I have doubts about that the green ray Ra talks about can be equated to stage Green in Spiral Dynamics. As I understand it, green-ray activation is what enables a service-to-others social memory complex. That's a collective consciousness, a superorganism, way above even the second tier in Spiral Dynamics.

The colors of Spiral Dynamics are not the same as the true colors of the densities. Spiral Dynamics has chosen arbitrary colors just for contrast.

http://www.integralworld.net/dillard2.html

Ken Wilber has even changed the color Yellow to Teal, maybe the word 'yellow' sounded to lame for him, like how a SWAT team can be called team gold instead of team yellow, haha.

More seriously though they made a comparison in the podcast between going from Green (last stage in the first tier) to Yellow (first stage in the second tier) in Spiral Dynamics and green-ray activation in the Law of One. I suspect that those are two things with magnitudes of difference.

Imagine the perspective a single cell has in our body. And compare that to the perspective we have as a human being. I see the difference between Ra and Spiral Dynamics as the difference between the human perspective and the cell's perspective (the cell is in the analogy the separate human being).

[flofrog]

I found it so interesting, my sister was a big fan of Ken Wilbur’s writings and as I loved and admired her I tried to get into it and I got in and then out.

So I really loved this discussion. It’s funny because I am so into the colors of our chakras that at times my feeble brain felt totally under water with the colors adopted for the spirals and how they related to the evolution of the person.

[Louisabell]

A very interesting framework to consider, thanks to Doug Scott.

Also there was some talk about how general Patton could have increased in positive polarization but decreased in harvestability during his lifetime. My personal take on that is that he polarized positively through strong yellow ray work, I think he contributed positively to society by helping defeat the Nazis, but that his heart may have become closed due to hatred of the enemy. An open heart is a requirement for harvest in addition to the 51% positive polarity, is it not?

I also really enjoyed the discussion surrounding this answer in the Ra Material. I will post it below for reference:

34.17 Questioner: Is it possible for you to use as an example our General Patton and tell me the effect that war had on him in his development?

Ra: I am Ra. This will be the last full question of this working. The one of whom you speak, known as George, was one in whom the programming of previous incarnations had created a pattern or inertia which was irresistible in its incarnation in your time/space. This entity was of a strong yellow-ray activation with frequent green-ray openings and occasional blue-ray openings. However, it did not find itself able to break the mold of previous traumatic experiences of a bellicose nature.

This entity polarized somewhat towards the positive in its incarnation due to its singleness of belief in truth and beauty. This entity was quite sensitive. It felt a great honor/duty to the preservation of that which was felt by the entity to be true, beautiful, and in need of defense. This entity perceived itself as a gallant figure. It polarized somewhat towards the negative in its lack of understanding the green ray it carried with it, rejecting the forgiveness principle which is implicit in universal love.

The sum total of this incarnation vibrationally was a slight increase in positive polarity but a decrease in harvestability due to the rejection of the Law or Way of Responsibility; that is, seeing universal love, yet still it fought on.

I interpret this to mean that Patton must of increased in his ability to perceive a higher intensity of light/love, thereby increasing his polarity. However, due to still acting in bellicose ways in light of his raised consciousness, more karma ended up being accrued to him that would need to be balanced by further third-density experience (thereby reducing his odds for harvestability). This being due to the Law of Responsibility. When we know to do better, we must do better. So as Patton progressed in his life, he acted less out of innocence and more from immoral decisions that he consciously made (in seeing more love yet fighting on).

Also universal love is an expression of unity. Therefore Patton would have been more aware of the unity of all beings, yet still choosing to be bellicose to others would have caused himself more internal suffering and cognitive dissonance, I would imagine. And it would not be following the Golden Rule - do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

6.14 Questioner: I think it would be appropriate to discover how the Law of One acts in this transfer of beings to our planet and the action of harvest?

Ra: I am Ra. The Law of One states simply that all things are one, that all beings are one. There are certain behaviors and thought-forms consonant with the understanding and practice of this law. Those who, finishing a cycle of experience, demonstrate various grades of distortion of that understanding of thought and action will be separated by their own choice into the vibratory distortion most comfortable to their mind/body/spirit complexes. This process is guarded or watched by those nurturing beings who, being very close to the Law of One in their distortions, nevertheless have the distortion towards active service.

Thus, the illusion is created of light, or more properly but less understandably, light/love. This is in varying degrees of intensity. The spirit complex of each harvested entity moves along the line of light until the light grows too glaring, at which time the entity stops. This entity may have barely reached third density or may be very, very close to the ending of the third-density light/love distortion vibratory complex. Nevertheless, those who fall within this octave of intensifying light/love then experience a major cycle during which the opportunities are many for the discovery of the distortions which are inherent in each entity and, therefore, the lessening of these distortions.

[flofrog]

Thank you Louisabell,  notably great last quote, slightly defeating for lazy ones like moi, to see that opportunities rise till the last moment, lol.  I dont want to lessen my distorsions too much work  

Ra :
Nevertheless, those who fall within this octave of intensifying light/love then experience a major cycle during which the opportunities are many for the discovery of the distortions which are inherent in each entity and, therefore, the lessening of these distortions.

[Louisabell]

I interpret this to mean that Patton must of increased in his ability to perceive a higher intensity of light/love, thereby increasing his polarity. However, due to still acting in bellicose ways in light of his raised consciousness, more karma ended up being accrued to him that would need to be balanced by further third-density experience (thereby reducing his odds for harvestability). This being due to the Law of Responsibility. When we know to do better, we must do better. So as Patton progressed in his life, he acted less out of innocence and more from immoral decisions that he consciously made (in seeing more love yet fighting on).

In reply to myself, I wanted to add on that on recently coming across passage 35.1 again from the LOO, I realised that the same thing may have happened to Eleanor Roosevelt:

35.1 ... I am Ra ... This entity polarized continuously in a positive fashion in the universal sense while, in a less universal sense, developing a pattern of what may be called karma; this karma having to do with inharmonious relationship distortions with the mate/teacher.

So, looks like karma is not strictly tied to one's ability to polarize, yet can be tied to the concept of one's harvestability. The logical consistency of the LOO never ceases to amaze me.