(02-16-2011, 05:28 AM)unity100 Wrote: if you dont read some discussion in which every kind of possible argument was made, then you come out reiterating the same arguments to those people, who then, in turn, politely opt out of discussing with you like crimson did.
I read the arguments.
I am looking for the description of your utopian socialism, not for your criticism of free enterprise.
I vigorously, emphatically, and in every way completely disagree with your repeated assertion that profit is evil.
Profitable transactions reflect an efficient distribution of resources - and resources include mental effort, psychic energy, willpower, intelligence - not just physical goods.
Profitable transactions are voluntary and done in pure free will on an equal power basis. Two people engaging in a transaction each profit. The buyer profits because he values the good more than the money. The seller profits because he values the money more than the good. This is a sacred and noble spiritual exchange and this is precisely the kind of activity that demonstrates both a respect for free will and an equality among people.
I agree with the Questioner in the other thread in every way. I agree with Ayn Rand who speaks about how money is one of the greatest inventions of mankind.
I agree with the economists who have shown again and again that voluntary exchanges are efficient and fair, providing the greatest good for the greatest number of people.
Communism cannot be enacted without force. Period. How are you going to force someone to surrender the fruits of their labour without using force? What if they build 10,000 cars and want to distribute them in a way that you disagree with?
I honestly think communism is one of the most evil and pernicious ideas to have ever cursed the Earth and the enduring hatred for money that many self-styled wise people have is tragic beyond belief.
Productive free enterprise labour is the solution to humanity's physical suffering. The reason that segments of Earth still suffer from hunger and disease is because they are denied the right to the fruits of their productive free enterprise.
Quote:please refer to that thread. the very fact that you talk about 'barrels of guns' and 'you guys are communists !!' etc, tells that you are quite biased in this subject. which is not a logical and wise state to be in.
Why do you even bother making these judgements? Surely you recognize that, as a participant in these discussions, you can't trust your own judgement on a question of bias either?
I've thought and studied this topic LONG and HARD for YEARS. I've spent countless hours and days in discussion with communists as well as supporters of free enterprise. I've read voluminously on the topic and examined case study after case study.
Question: How do you lift a society out of poverty?
Answer: Allow them to have free enterprise + property rights.
This fact has been demonstrated over and over and over.
Quote:and this is why you should not read any 'specific part', but all the thread. you are talking about individualism, in a path that seeks out to let go of EVERYthing, leave aside an idea of the self, and give out everything to others. it seems you are conceptualizing this spiritual path of positivity just being something that is only inside, feelings, emotions and so on.
there are quite important discussions regarding the basics of these concepts in that thread. and actually, this is why i asked you to read that thread. the understanding of basic concepts and clearing of misconceptions is much more important to spiritual advancement than anything else.
I agree with Ra's conception of positive polarity.
It starts with an open heart.
It leads to a demonstration of service to others in activity.
The most powerful vehicle for service to humanity that has been utilized again and again to improve the lives of legions is the free enterprise business. More good has been done by free enterprise than all the spiritual teachers, all the government officials, all the aristocrats combined. Free enterprise labour and exchange is the natural elevated state of humanity. It respects free will. It respects individual inspiration and self-direction. It provides for group effort. It is an excellent way to practice service to all of humankind.
Your error on this issue can be summed up in one quote of yours:
unity100 Wrote:henry ford's intent in serving others, does not change the fact that he took more than he gave.
This statement made me laugh out loud. Ford almost singlehandedly through sheer brilliance and strength of will revolutionized society and led to advanced transportation for hundreds of millions (if not ultimately billions) of people. He shrunk the world and enriched the lives of so many millions. He gave them an exceptional product at an amazing price and paid his workers handsomely. His cars freed up so much manual labour that it boggles the mind. It's almost incalculable how positive his impact was on humanity.
And what did he get in return? A few mansions. Some nice meals at restaurants. A boat. PALTRY!
The goods he received in exchange are utterly incomparable to the good he produced. Utterly and in every way.
It's completely ridiculous to claim that he took in more than he produced. He just produced SO MUCH that I suspect it would be literally impossible for him to take in more than he produced. It would probably take thousands of lives of nothing but hedonistic consumption of the most lavish kind for him to even come close to receiving equal payment.
Profit is not evil. Profit fairly gained through voluntary exchange with happy customers is, in fact, manifest virtue.