I'm out of here. (Interpersonal Relationships on B4)
12-30-2010, 09:48 AM,
#61
RE: I'm out of here.
Thank you for sharing your experience, Unity100.
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12-30-2010, 10:56 AM,
#62
RE: I'm out of here.
I agree that Ali left because of threads like this, lol.

Most of this discussion seems to be so utterly transient, as Ra would say. Life is very short, and there's no time for fussing and fighting my friends.
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12-30-2010, 11:00 AM,
#63
RE: I'm out of here.
(12-30-2010, 10:56 AM)Wander-Man Wrote:  I agree that Ali left because of threads like this, lol.

Most of this discussion seems to be so utterly transient, as Ra would say. Life is very short, and there's no time for fussing and fighting my friends.

Also love the BeatlesHeart

Love & Light
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12-30-2010, 11:15 AM,
#64
RE: I'm out of here.
(12-30-2010, 10:56 AM)Wander-Man Wrote:  I agree that Ali left because of threads like this, lol.

Most of this discussion seems to be so utterly transient, as Ra would say. Life is very short, and there's no time for fussing and fighting my friends.

this thread's substance is a discussion that revolves on the basis of some people being annoyed/irritated with other people's thoughts and philosophies.

basically, some people are annoyed with the questioning of various religions, dogmas, biases, or philosophies or propositions contradicting them. or, questioning of their own ideas and thoughts.

there is no 'discussion for discussion's sake' here. the people annoyed in such manner are claiming that the other parties are being rude, infringing, impolite, politically incorrect, negative, this and that, despite being unable to bring any sentences, quotes, or remarks proving those claims. and they want the others to stop doing as such.

so, it basically ends up to the issue of some portions of the social group disliking questioning of dogmas/own philosophies and thoughts, regarding these as rude, impolite, negative or whatever, and wanting others to stop doing that.

its not a question of 'transiency' or unimportance. its not some pointless 'bickering'. one party wants the other to stop questioning what they want to leave unquestioned. the other party, wants to question and learn/discover.

lets see, in the light of the objections in this thread, people in the second group, like me, have two choices :

a) stop questioning religions, dogmas, societal biases, conditionings, stop proposing anything that would go against any of these, stop fielding any objection to these, refrain from making any 'disrespectful' comments or analysis about these, so that the people in the first group wont be annoyed, the seemingly positive social atmosphere in the social group wont be disturbed, and other members wont be annoyed with the conflicts that arise as a result of such 'transient' situations.
b) keep on questioning, analyzing and discovering despite the annoyance and irritation of the people in first group.

there is no third option, you see, because in this case unfortunately there is no middle route after a certain point. there is a certain point at which this incompatibility would pop up, just like how it happens in between the spiritual seeker and his/her family. you may bring in reincarnation, you may bring in souls, spirits and so on, but, very probably at the point where you bring the proposition that religions from middle east is negatively influenced and therefore oriented, the shizz would hit the fan in between you and your family, regardless of how smooth a route you followed up till that point.

this is not something 'transient'. its just similar to what would happen in between any of you here, and your social circle, if you dare venture to take the knowledge you are getting from ra material (or other sound sources) from out of 'some comfortable new age spiritual reading' classification and turn it into life practice. (if you havent done that already, or luckily born into a family which has done it way before you were born)
can reach me@ unity100-gmail
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12-30-2010, 11:23 AM, (This post was last modified: 12-30-2010, 11:30 AM by Wander-Man.)
#65
RE: I'm out of here.
(12-30-2010, 11:00 AM)Ashim Wrote:  
(12-30-2010, 10:56 AM)Wander-Man Wrote:  I agree that Ali left because of threads like this, lol.

Most of this discussion seems to be so utterly transient, as Ra would say. Life is very short, and there's no time for fussing and fighting my friends.

Also love the BeatlesHeart

Love & Light

Haha, high five

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g--Vlij1X1Y

Try to see it my way,
Do I have to keep on talking till I can't go on?
While you see it your way,
Run the risk of knowing that our love may soon be gone.
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12-30-2010, 11:42 AM, (This post was last modified: 12-30-2010, 11:51 AM by Shemaya.)
#66
RE: I'm out of here.
(12-30-2010, 11:23 AM)Wander-Man Wrote:  
(12-30-2010, 11:00 AM)Ashim Wrote:  
(12-30-2010, 10:56 AM)Wander-Man Wrote:  I agree that Ali left because of threads like this, lol.

Most of this discussion seems to be so utterly transient, as Ra would say. Life is very short, and there's no time for fussing and fighting my friends.

Also love the BeatlesHeart

Love & Light

Haha, high five

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g--Vlij1X1Y

Try to see it my way,
Do I have to keep on talking till I can't go on?
While you see it your way,
Run the risk of knowing that our love may soon be gone.

Awesome guys. Love the Beatles , especially the last couple of weeks, been listening to their music...

Great SONG..perfectHeart

P.S. here is a very Yin invitation...that we strive to communicate through deep listening, reflective speaking, and honoring all perspectives and collaboration. That we allow other-selves their perspectives...and maintain a semi-permeable membrane of self-love, so that we allow in what is helpful and useful to our journey, and that which is unhelpful stays out!!
May all Beings everywhere be happy and free
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12-30-2010, 02:12 PM,
#67
RE: I'm out of here.
Unity, I went through the isolation you described, and now I'm once again socializing with my old friends who I once considered to be holding me back. Maybe you're experiencing what you expect to/want to experience? I've purged myself of alot of the societal and religious biases/beliefs I once had but I'm less of a hermit now than ever before in my life, socializing more with "un-spiritual" people has helped me polarize alot. I agree with you that ideas should be questioned but do you see me ever arguing with anyone? I used to argue over anything with anyone, I've grown out of that. If I see a comment I disagree with, don't like, perceive as arrogant, etc. I move on to the next post. Maybe its part of someones path to be wrong now. Maybe their belief in something false will help them polarize more and eventually lead to them finding truth. Maybe your systematic dissection of their beliefs is not what's best for them in some situations. If someone doesn't like your comments then leave them alone, it doesn't mean you have to stop questioning things, it just means that you give one person a break. People nowhere near as logical as you can become adepts. Why? Because logic isn't the only way to find truth. People without a single solid belief can one day have an epiphany and learn all they need to learn, and still never know the meaning of words like existentialism. Ignoring peoples wishes is not STO. Unless someone is arguing for racism or tyranny or something like that when there's no need to show them why their beliefs are wrong, just let them be, they're not hurting anyone. For someone who thinks a spiritual path is about isolation you seem very concerned with what other people believe. What happened to acceptance?

I admire your logical skills and knowledge, but we're not robots or vulcans, we're human beings with emotional and social needs - something that took me a long time to learn. You said: what's the point of knowledge if it won't be shared. How do you expect to share knowledge if you alienate so many people who will either skip your posts or read them with a closed mind, trying to prepare an argument against it? You could write a book, but whether you like it or not you'll need to learn how to interact with other people harmoniously one day if you really want to be an adept.
Laugh and enjoy yourself
- Quo
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12-30-2010, 02:59 PM, (This post was last modified: 12-30-2010, 03:06 PM by unity100.)
#68
RE: I'm out of here.
(12-30-2010, 02:12 PM)turtledude23 Wrote:  Unity, I went through the isolation you described, and now I'm once again socializing with my old friends who I once considered to be holding me back. Maybe you're experiencing what you expect to/want to experience?

i didnt say i was experiencing these. these were long ago.

a handful of people are left from my old social circle. there are a few surprising ones among them. rest have placed themselves automatically in distances according to their vibrations and look on life.

Quote:I've purged myself of alot of the societal and religious biases/beliefs I once had but I'm less of a hermit now than ever before in my life, socializing more with "un-spiritual" people has helped me polarize alot. I agree with you that ideas should be questioned but do you see me ever arguing with anyone? I used to argue over anything with anyone, I've grown out of that. If I see a comment I disagree with, don't like, perceive as arrogant, etc. I move on to the next post. Maybe its part of someones path to be wrong now.

this is not a matter of arguing. the subject at hand is not roasting bread in the breakfast, best route in traffic, or which movie to go. what's being discussed are deep spiritual stuff which are not compliant with established biases.

it doesnt matter whether you refrain from commenting on particular posts you disagree with. what matters is, what you say at any given point in time, and its compatibility with biases.

skip 30 comments from other people leaning on, say, religion, and suggesting/advising various religious approaches to people. but, go and make an irrelevant comment criticizing any given religion, or expressing something that is fundamentally incompatible/unacceptable to it, and you will see that one of those 30 commentators whose comments you skipped will come and find you in that thread.

it is like standing in the middle of tel aviv, and loudly saying judaism is negatively/evil influenced. at that point, it doesnt matter whether you like to argue, skip/tolerate others' views, religions or not. the others, do not want you to be expressing what you are expressing.

granted, the situation in this forum, is not as extreme as tel aviv. however, you can easily say that it is inevitable after a certain point that some people's biases will still get on their own way.

Quote:Maybe their belief in something false will help them polarize more and eventually lead to them finding truth. Maybe your systematic dissection of their beliefs is not what's best for them in some situations. If someone doesn't like your comments then leave them alone, it doesn't mean you have to stop questioning things, it just means that you give one person a break.

refer to the above block.

also i think you are taking this more specifically related to nabil. the issue is not that narrow or isolated.

there are 2 major occasions in which i have experienced severe reaction in this forum for daring suggest things that went against the biases of middle-east origin religions, before this one. it is not limited to him, but ali was among those who reacted strongly in two of these cases. in the 1.5 days leading up to his leave from the forum, in two separate threads there was again such kind of discussion, in which he has increasingly become aggressive, and eventually left. making this the third case.

ali is just an example here, at least a vocal one. i am sure that there are many others who are standing on various points of the irritation spectrum, consciously or unconsciously, because of me or others proposing/discussing ideas that are not compatible with their biases, philosophies. these people may occasionally have their 'fed-up glass' become full and come react in some way, after having their glass fill up drop by drop over time. the catch is, they may not even know why they are getting irritated themselves. they may even be philosophically or ideologically 'open minded' people, or be ones who are rather forcing themselves to be as such. however subconscious bias eventually would show itself, but be attributed to things other than the real reason itself.

hence, the 'rude, impolite, aggressive, uncaring, negative etc etc' accusations from some people, despite having no quote, sentence, post to show for supporting them. they are not irritated with the language, they are not irritated with the approach, they are not irritated with continuance, they are not irritated with long post length, they arent even irritated with deepness or far-outness of whatever being discussed. but they are irritated whenever their biases they identify with, are contradicted/objected.

certain people have given the exact same response, in ALL cases in which i have dared touch this kind of dogma/religion/belief even in tangents required by other, deeper subjects. in all 3 cases, even though language, approach, presentation, intent differed, the result was the same. the only thing that was different was the period it took from the start to they reacting strongly. end result has been the same.

Quote:People nowhere near as logical as you can become adepts. Why? Because logic isn't the only way to find truth. People without a single solid belief can one day have an epiphany and learn all they need to learn, and still never know the meaning of words like existentialism.

they can ? of course they can. then they proceed to create life forms to have them serve themselves, they can offset the planet's axis through using energy contraptions far powerful than their wisdom level, they can start evaporating each other. or, they can totally destroy a planet or obliterate it.

see, a fine point here. wisdom and knowledge, is necessary for this kind of thing to be averted.

and no, existentialism knowledge is not needed for logic. for, what you dub as logic here, is the usage of faculty of mind. which is the processor of interaction coming from manifestation, and projector of what comes from spirit onto the physical realm.

however knowledge, and further, its refinement into what we know as wisdom, is required for progressing beyond 5d. entities who are ready to start accepting the responsibility of learning the 'dance' of existence, we are told, get into 5d.

this also means that fifth ray is such a ray. unless someone is ready to work with it, they wouldnt be able to access it. this also would pass valid for any adept trying to go into higher rays in 3d, because rays do not change their nature, their qualities anywhere. green is green, blue is blue, in 3d or 5d. even if blue wouldnt be physically manifestable in 3d physical realm, in time/space it would still act according to its nature.

Quote:Ignoring peoples wishes is not STO. Unless someone is arguing for racism or tyranny or something like that when there's no need to show them why their beliefs are wrong, just let them be, they're not hurting anyone. For someone who thinks a spiritual path is about isolation you seem very concerned with what other people believe. What happened to acceptance?

i think you have the situation butt-end, and concentrated on nabil's own incident. the situation is far broader than that, as i described above.

you have to ignore the wishes of people, when people are wishing you to stop going forward.

tho, the question 'what happened to acceptance' is valid here - it can easily be posed to personas who were claiming that they were following a path of love, but are unable to accept anyone proposing any kind of opposing/contradictory ideas to their biases. so, we are all one, everyone loves each other as long as one of us do not propose anything that contradicts with middle eastern religions, established social structure, capitalism, this or that.

and what strikes me as appalling is that, people come up and claim they are following a path of 'love', then proceed onto ganging up on you for proposing things that their biases dislike, then come up again and accuse YOU of being unloving, uncaring, disrespectful, negative, this that.

Quote:I admire your logical skills and knowledge, but we're not robots or vulcans, we're human beings with emotional and social needs - something that took me a long time to learn. You said: what's the point of knowledge if it won't be shared. How do you expect to share knowledge if you alienate so many people who will either skip your posts or read them with a closed mind, trying to prepare an argument against it?

someone who is attacking someone else for contradicting/criticizing his/her bias, is not someone who is seeking/ready for knowledge to be shared. there is no loss, for such a person not taking what you want to share. s/he is not wanting it anyway, and you cant force it.

there is a certain thread i am wanting to open, regarding the plan of this logos of emphasizing unity/oneness heavily for this creation, its relevance with the veil, and the relations in between the two and the difficulties 3d planets in this locale of the galaxy, with direct connection to differences in between religions/philosophies out of middle east and other places, and the curious concentration of confederation intervention/aid in martians or middle east zone, and overboard fixation of yahweh regarding those who they brought from mars to this planet, with important parallels and links in between rays, densities and their meanings, for a long time.

however, i am holding it still off, because there are a lot of people who go berserk with the mere mention of any 'disrespectful' proposition towards any of these.

see. its not a matter of 'leaving others be'. but, whether others leave you be, or not.

Quote:but whether you like it or not you'll need to learn how to interact with other people harmoniously one day if you really want to be an adept.

i wont comment on that.
can reach me@ unity100-gmail
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Bring4th_Plenum
12-30-2010, 04:21 PM,
#69
RE: I'm out of here.
(12-28-2010, 01:52 AM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote:  ...
why make a big deal about it? Why not just avoid reading that person's posts, if we don't like them?
...

Just another quick follow up to this idea... If you are having a consistently difficult time reading posts from a certain user on this forum, you can easily "unfollow" them.

http://www.bring4th.org/forums/usercp.php?action=editlists

From what I can tell this feature seems to work well and remember that you can always remove the block at a future date if you change your mind.

Smile
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12-30-2010, 04:30 PM, (This post was last modified: 12-30-2010, 04:30 PM by zenmaster.)
#70
RE: I'm out of here.
It also shortens what you have to wade though, like a review of this thread magically skips from from post #68, to some blocked person's post, to this post #70.Big Grin
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12-30-2010, 04:59 PM, (This post was last modified: 12-30-2010, 05:02 PM by Aaron.)
#71
RE: I'm out of here.
In regards to "unfollowing" or blocking someone, wouldn't that be counter-productive to someone who is practicing the love and acceptance of all? Blocking off what you don't want to see and pretending everything's peachy is like sweeping dirt under the rug. The catalyst would catch up to you in a more pronounced way later on anyway... Plus, people would be replying to someone who you can't see and that would be downright confusing! Haha

The definition of "trolling" according to our /b/rothers at 4chan, who invented trolling, is this:
Person A (troll) purposefully posts a seemingly uneducated and inflammatory opinion.
Person B, the first person to "bite" or start feeding the troll, so to speak, responds vehemently because they've had their buttons pushed. They don't realize that the troll was in fact, trolling.
Persons C, D and onwards respond to either the troll or person B, keeping the argument going amongst themselves.
Person A (troll) kicks back, relaxes, and enjoys many luls. (Laughs at the confusion and frustration they've caused.)

Going by that definition, either I'm naive, or I haven't seen any real tolling going on here. This isn't the kind of place that that kind of thing happens. This is a place visited by people of higher consciousness. Rather, what I see happening is what unity100 describes. Person A posts ideas that they've formed using their intuition or independent thinking. Person B questions their ideas based on their own model of the universe, also built with intuition and/or independent thinking. Person A doesn't take it as best as they could. Instead of viewing the challenge to their idea as something that can help them farther develop their own ideas, coming from a friendly source, person A may see it as a threat, or something unfriendly.

I think that if we consciously practice what Monica has said about becoming aware of other's styles of thinking and communication, these misunderstandings can be prevented. Also, when I see someone present an idea they've formed with intuition or independent thinking, I first congratulate them, either mentally or through actually telling them, and make an effort to love them as a fellow human being who has freed his mind from the societal bias. I feel great joy that they've been able to come even that far. Even if their idea can be questioned or challenged by my information, I always try to remember to speak from the heart, and not discourage them from thinking for themselves in the future. I think this is helpful in maintaining a loving environment where no-one is pressured or made unnecessarily uncomfortable while learning takes place.
"A mountain holds an echo deep inside. That's how I hold your voice."
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12-30-2010, 05:29 PM,
#72
RE: I'm out of here.
Aaron, I wanted to address only the first sentence of your post, and while highlighting to delete the rest I slipped up, started from the middle of the sentence, and caught the tail end of your last sentence. I didn't notice this, and pressed backspace, and got this.

(12-30-2010, 04:59 PM)Aaron Wrote:  In regards to "unfollowing" or blocking someone, wouldn't that be counter-comfortable while learning takes place.

This was the point I was going to make in this post. My work here is done, lol.
Godspeed!
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12-30-2010, 06:12 PM,
#73
RE: I'm out of here.
AngryAngryAngryAngryAngryAngryAngryAngry

In my day this was called Bear Baiting with a heavy dose of manipulation. All you vegans and PETA's should be really upset now. [/i]

Baiting a Bear is intentionally created chaos and havoc in order to illicit an aggressive response. Through the selective poking of the bear with sharp sticks, swords, batons, staves and rocks. So the bear lunges at impaling itself unwittingly allowing the "huntsman" to draw blood and through successive mutilation the bear is killed. This is all in the name of power.

The metaphor hopefully is not lost on you all. Tolling is Very Cruel for a forum such as this[i]. I am saddened that Trolling is considered a sport by some on this forum. I will be very careful what I post here from now on. Serious seekers should beware this is no longer a safe place to bare your soul,speak about topics of great sensitivity, and do not tell your stories.

I Bless you with Love and Light
fairyfarmgirl


(12-30-2010, 04:59 PM)Aaron Wrote:  In regards to "unfollowing" or blocking someone, wouldn't that be counter-productive to someone who is practicing the love and acceptance of all? Blocking off what you don't want to see and pretending everything's peachy is like sweeping dirt under the rug. The catalyst would catch up to you in a more pronounced way later on anyway... Plus, people would be replying to someone who you can't see and that would be downright confusing! Haha

The definition of "trolling" according to our /b/rothers at 4chan, who invented trolling, is this:
Person A (troll) purposefully posts a seemingly uneducated and inflammatory opinion.
Person B, the first person to "bite" or start feeding the troll, so to speak, responds vehemently because they've had their buttons pushed. They don't realize that the troll was in fact, trolling.
Persons C, D and onwards respond to either the troll or person B, keeping the argument going amongst themselves.
Person A (troll) kicks back, relaxes, and enjoys many luls. (Laughs at the confusion and frustration they've caused.)

Going by that definition, either I'm naive, or I haven't seen any real tolling going on here. This isn't the kind of place that that kind of thing happens. This is a place visited by people of higher consciousness. Rather, what I see happening is what unity100 describes. Person A posts ideas that they've formed using their intuition or independent thinking. Person B questions their ideas based on their own model of the universe, also built with intuition and/or independent thinking. Person A doesn't take it as best as they could. Instead of viewing the challenge to their idea as something that can help them farther develop their own ideas, coming from a friendly source, person A may see it as a threat, or something unfriendly.

I think that if we consciously practice what Monica has said about becoming aware of other's styles of thinking and communication, these misunderstandings can be prevented. Also, when I see someone present an idea they've formed with intuition or independent thinking, I first congratulate them, either mentally or through actually telling them, and make an effort to love them as a fellow human being who has freed his mind from the societal bias. I feel great joy that they've been able to come even that far. Even if their idea can be questioned or challenged by my information, I always try to remember to speak from the heart, and not discourage them from thinking for themselves in the future. I think this is helpful in maintaining a loving environment where no-one is pressured or made unnecessarily uncomfortable while learning takes place.
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12-30-2010, 06:36 PM, (This post was last modified: 12-30-2010, 06:39 PM by unity100.)
#74
RE: I'm out of here.
(12-30-2010, 06:12 PM)fairyfarmgirl Wrote:  AngryAngryAngryAngryAngryAngryAngryAngry

In my day this was called Bear Baiting with a heavy dose of manipulation. All you vegans and PETA's should be really upset now. [/i]

Serious seekers should beware this is no longer a safe place to bare your soul,speak about topics of great sensitivity, and do not tell your stories.

yes. serious seekers instead should stop discussing anything sensitive, refrain from questioning anything, god forbid refrain from suggesting anything 'disrespectful' to religions, societal biases, or ideas of anyone, and lest they do so, they should be ganged up on, accused with negativity, impoliteness, rudeness, lack of love, evilness, service to self, aggressiveness, trolling, this, that and a lot of other stuff, including but not limited to being impliedly called stupid in an indirect way, being called 'kid !', or being given 'tough love' with strong language, having some truth dictated in their throat with sentences starting with 'let me make it clear' and ending with 'take it or leave it', being cursed on with swear words, and a few other, very curious stuff that i cant place to any solid footing in our own reality as of this moment - which i also wont give examples of, because i dont want to startle the people who are not in question in this thread like the others, but have been acting similarly in the past instances.

from among these, ali had used 'tough love' on me, dictating me various stuff with very strong, direct and coarse language, in the second instance that i had dared question god/religion. in the first instance, in a particular post he had basically called me stupid, in an indirect way. in this last instance, he has called me 'kid !' and dictated various other stuff. i can search the threads which these happened, and provide quotes with links to original posts, for all of them.

yet, he is the one leaving, and you are the one, being 'furious' over that, probably against me.

i dont have anything against ali. my thoughts or feelings towards him, did not change from point zero, to this point. i am just giving him as an example, for case in point.

my question is, i didnt see you being furious, and calling 'bear baiting' 'bull prodding' or this or that, when these occurrences had come to being, while they were happening to me. not to mention that, in most of these cases, the language was direct, the manner was coarse, the words were harsh, despite i was sharing my own philosophies, thoughts, or ideas, and opening my soul up to people, as you put it so strongly ?

yet, here you are, being furious over these, this time. with very strong language, and very strong emotions, apparently.

why the selective difference in the approach, and the strength of the emotions conveyed ?
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12-30-2010, 06:52 PM,
#75
RE: I'm out of here.
i feel as though i'm missing something here

i find unity's posts regularly thought provoking and interesting, his communmication style, as highlighted by monica, is not one with which i am naturally drawn to, but i read because i find value in many of his posts. for this i am grateful.

ali is leaving for his own reasons which may have been triggered by interactions on this board, but nevertheless this is not the first time that ali has withdrawn from bring4th for a period of time. last time he did so he indicated that it was an important period of personal growth and development for him. his decision to focus his energies elsewhere are his own concern, while his input to bring4th has clearly been appreciated by a great many people i would think it unlikely that a decision by him to withdraw could be blamed on another member

and if a member was behaving in a deliberately provocative way to disable the participation of another member, then this is a positively moderated forum, monica and the other moderators are more than capeable of sensitively addressing any deliberately damaging behaviour on the forum

can we not have faith in each other that each of us is communicating and contributing from a position of sincere seeking?
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12-30-2010, 06:56 PM,
#76
RE: I'm out of here.
Hi unity100,

With all due respect, I don't think fairyfarmgirl was furious with you. I interpreted her post as being furious with others in the thread, not you.

I think this is happening because of the veil between our conscious and subconscious minds. We , you, and others are reacting because of internal triggers that we may be unaware of.

This is the "inner work" that Turtle referred to in another thread. To examine and bring to the light of consciousness our veiled aspects so that we can balance them, and heal them and become less reactive and more adept.

Does this make sense?
May all Beings everywhere be happy and free
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12-30-2010, 06:57 PM, (This post was last modified: 12-30-2010, 07:38 PM by Monica.)
#77
RE: I'm out of here.
(12-30-2010, 06:52 PM)Lorna Wrote:  i feel as though i'm missing something here

i find unity's posts regularly thought provoking and interesting, his communmication style, as highlighted by monica, is not one with which i am naturally drawn to, but i read because i find value in many of his posts. for this i am grateful.

ali is leaving for his own reasons which may have been triggered by interactions on this board, but nevertheless this is not the first time that ali has withdrawn from bring4th for a period of time. last time he did so he indicated that it was an important period of personal growth and development for him. his decision to focus his energies elsewhere are his own concern, while his input to bring4th has clearly been appreciated by a great many people i would think it unlikely that a decision by him to withdraw could be blamed on another member

and if a member was behaving in a deliberately provocative way to disable the participation of another member, then this is a positively moderated forum, monica and the other moderators are more than capeable of sensitively addressing any deliberately damaging behaviour on the forum

can we not have faith in each other that each of us is communicating and contributing from a position of sincere seeking?

THANK YOU LORNA!!! Smile

Very well said!
(12-30-2010, 06:12 PM)fairyfarmgirl Wrote:  All you vegans and PETA's should be really upset now.

Are you trying to give an example of trolling? Wink

(12-30-2010, 06:12 PM)fairyfarmgirl Wrote:  Tolling is Very Cruel for a forum such as this. I am saddened that Trolling is considered a sport by some on this forum. I will be very careful what I post here from now on. Serious seekers should beware this is no longer a safe place to bare your soul,speak about topics of great sensitivity, and do not tell your stories.

Maybe I'm just ignorant about trolling, but I honestly don't understand what you are referring to. I have not seen anything on Bring4th that matches what you just described.

Fairy, are you saying you feel trolling is so rampant here that you no longer feel safe in expressing yourself?

If so, can you please explain? I truly don't have any idea what you are referring to. I don't understand how I could read nearly all the threads everyday and miss something like that.
Huh
(12-30-2010, 04:59 PM)Aaron Wrote:  In regards to "unfollowing" or blocking someone, wouldn't that be counter-productive to someone who is practicing the love and acceptance of all? Blocking off what you don't want to see and pretending everything's peachy is like sweeping dirt under the rug. The catalyst would catch up to you in a more pronounced way later on anyway...

Exactly!

The keyword for the STO path is [i]acceptance.

How is it accepting an other-self, to reject them?

We don't have to agree with someone, to accept them.

We can accept that their perspective is valid, without agreeing or letting them push our buttons.

If they are pushing our buttons, we can be sure there is some aspect of ourselves that is being suppressed.

However, if a person isn't ready to face those suppressed aspects, it would be preferable to ignore the other member, than to become confrontational or hostile, and allow discord into the community.

So it seems that acceptance of the other self is optimal, but, barring that, ignoring them would better than bickering with them.

(12-30-2010, 04:59 PM)Aaron Wrote:  Going by that definition, either I'm naive, or I haven't seen any real tolling going on here.

Thank you Aaron! I haven't either. Not in awhile anyway.

(12-30-2010, 04:59 PM)Aaron Wrote:  This isn't the kind of place that that kind of thing happens. This is a place visited by people of higher consciousness. Rather, what I see happening is what unity100 describes. Person A posts ideas that they've formed using their intuition or independent thinking. Person B questions their ideas based on their own model of the universe, also built with intuition and/or independent thinking. Person A doesn't take it as best as they could. Instead of viewing the challenge to their idea as something that can help them farther develop their own ideas, coming from a friendly source, person A may see it as a threat, or something unfriendly.

I think that if we consciously practice what Monica has said about becoming aware of other's styles of thinking and communication, these misunderstandings can be prevented. Also, when I see someone present an idea they've formed with intuition or independent thinking, I first congratulate them, either mentally or through actually telling them, and make an effort to love them as a fellow human being who has freed his mind from the societal bias. I feel great joy that they've been able to come even that far. Even if their idea can be questioned or challenged by my information, I always try to remember to speak from the heart, and not discourage them from thinking for themselves in the future. I think this is helpful in maintaining a loving environment where no-one is pressured or made unnecessarily uncomfortable while learning takes place.

Exactly! Well said!
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12-30-2010, 07:17 PM,
#78
RE: I'm out of here.
(12-30-2010, 06:56 PM)Shemaya Wrote:  Hi unity100,

With all due respect, I don't think fairyfarmgirl was furious with you. I interpreted her post as being furious with others in the thread, not you.

that may be as such, but what she says basically points to the need for me or others shutting up and not questioning the claimed bible-english-god numerology proof for nabil's packed spheres proposition, and refraining from going anywhere near the concepts religion and god with conflicting ideas/propositions. doing otherwise, becomes bull prodding, trolling, with that excerpt she posted.

i just browsed the old threads, and i had noticed that whenever i proposed anything conflicting with especially the concepts of religion and god, pages long of discussions had ensued, in no polite terms.
can reach me@ unity100-gmail
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12-30-2010, 07:20 PM,
#79
RE: I'm out of here.
(12-30-2010, 11:42 AM)Shemaya Wrote:  Great SONG..perfectHeart

Yeah, perfectly appropriate!

(12-30-2010, 11:42 AM)Shemaya Wrote:  here is a very Yin invitation...that we strive to communicate through deep listening, reflective speaking, and honoring all perspectives and collaboration. That we allow other-selves their perspectives...and maintain a semi-permeable membrane of self-love, so that we allow in what is helpful and useful to our journey, and that which is unhelpful stays out!!

Gosh, what a novel idea! I love it! Heart
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12-30-2010, 07:28 PM, (This post was last modified: 12-30-2010, 07:31 PM by Eddie.)
#80
RE: I'm out of here.
(12-30-2010, 07:17 PM)unity100 Wrote:  i just browsed the old threads, and i had noticed that whenever i proposed anything conflicting with especially the concepts of religion and god, pages long of discussions had ensued, in no polite terms.

There is no separation. There is only Oneness.

The world you perceive without mirrors the world within.
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12-30-2010, 07:30 PM, (This post was last modified: 12-30-2010, 07:36 PM by Monica.)
#81
RE: I'm out of here.
(12-30-2010, 02:59 PM)unity100 Wrote:  hence, the 'rude, impolite, aggressive, uncaring, negative etc etc' accusations from some people, despite having no quote, sentence, post to show for supporting them. they are not irritated with the language, they are not irritated with the approach, they are not irritated with continuance, they are not irritated with long post length, they arent even irritated with deepness or far-outness of whatever being discussed. but they are irritated whenever their biases they identify with, are contradicted/objected.

I believe there is truth in what unity100 is saying here. I have experienced this myself, on other forums and even here, when I was the one who was daring to question established beliefs (in the meat thread).

In these cases, it didn't matter how politely I said it. Because my views made others uncomfortable, I was labeled 'rude' etc.

We all have areas of blindness. We don't always realize that we even have biases at all, so when they are challenged, we don't recognize that the discomfort we feel is from having our biases/presuppositions challenged.

So, it is easier to just react, by blaming the person who is challenging us. It doesn't matter how nice they are. (Although I do believe we should all be nice and respectful, of course.) Hence, a person might be rude but doesn't challenge us, and we don't notice they're rude, because they didn't push any of our buttons.

Being nice is important. But the discomfort of having presuppositions challenged can distort our perception of whether the other person is being 'nice' or 'rude.'
(12-30-2010, 06:36 PM)unity100 Wrote:  my question is, i didnt see you being furious, and calling 'bear baiting' 'bull prodding' or this or that, when these occurrences had come to being, while they were happening to me. not to mention that, in most of these cases, the language was direct, the manner was coarse, the words were harsh, despite i was sharing my own philosophies, thoughts, or ideas, and opening my soul up to people, as you put it so strongly ?

yet, here you are, being furious over these, this time. with very strong language, and very strong emotions, apparently.

why the selective difference in the approach, and the strength of the emotions conveyed ?

A few months ago, unity100 was singled out in several threads, and no one complained. Only a couple of people seemed to even notice, and only 1 person, as I recall, publicly spoke up on behalf of him.

I too am wondering about double standards.
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12-30-2010, 07:45 PM,
#82
RE: I'm out of here.
(12-30-2010, 04:59 PM)Aaron Wrote:  In regards to "unfollowing" or blocking someone, wouldn't that be counter-productive to someone who is practicing the love and acceptance of all? Blocking off what you don't want to see and pretending everything's peachy is like sweeping dirt under the rug. The catalyst would catch up to you in a more pronounced way later on anyway...

Aaron- you write a thoughtful response and I would like to add my thoughts.

I don't think it would be counter productive for someone who is PRACTICING the love and acceptance. If we are all enlightened masters then yes you are right. But some of us are not there yet !!! Even in real life we don't engage with willing people interesting in cheating and manipulating (I am not saying this is happening here). We draw some boundaries to have some emotional sanctuary in physical lives. This is a place that is supposed to provide that sanctuary and not become this hostile place where people are not able to open their heart out and expect love and compassion. Because they are concerned getting torn apart in the name of wisdom and truth. There has to be a balance between the so called wisdom and the love and compassion this place is supposed to provide. It is not supposed to provide this kind of on-going dueling of ideas. But an emotional sanctuary. That is just my opinion on what I expect this forum to be for the members.

There is also the practical consideration of having to read the pages and pages of voluminous material that could have been more concisely expressed. So I am going to use this IGNORE feature and see if this improves my level of comfort with this forum. Thanks for sharing the link- seeking one.
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12-30-2010, 07:52 PM,
#83
RE: I'm out of here.
(12-30-2010, 07:45 PM)thefool Wrote:  This is a place that is supposed to provide that sanctuary and not become this hostile place where people are not able to open their heart out and expect love and compassion. Because they are concerned getting torn apart in the name of wisdom and truth. There has to be a balance between the so called wisdom and the love and compassion this place is supposed to provide. It is not supposed to provide this kind of on-going dueling of ideas. But an emotional sanctuary. That is just my opinion on what I expect this forum to be for the members.

You've brought up a very good point, thefool.

Could it be that different members have different expectations as to what this forum is 'supposed' to be?

How do we accommodate everyone's different expectations without infringing on anyone?
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12-30-2010, 08:01 PM,
#84
RE: I'm out of here.
(12-30-2010, 04:59 PM)Aaron Wrote:  Rather, what I see happening is what unity100 describes. Person A posts ideas that they've formed using their intuition or independent thinking. Person B questions their ideas based on their own model of the universe, also built with intuition and/or independent thinking. Person A doesn't take it as best as they could. Instead of viewing the challenge to their idea as something that can help them farther develop their own ideas, coming from a friendly source, person A may see it as a threat, or something unfriendly.

What I see happening is this-

Step 1:
Person A -opens her/his heart out and seek other selves and bring forth some ideas that they feel important enough to share with this like minded community.

Step 2:
Person B, C and D provide loving inputs and provide their commentaries. There is a feeling of community and well being. So far so good.

Step 3:
Person F jumps in with both feet and challenges some of the theories and concepts. Focusing more on the ideas but not the person behind the ideas and the original intent of the ideas. It is still OK (goes to the personality and development status of person F)

Step 4: Person A tries to respond as best as she could and ends up providing more feed for the canon fodder

Step 5: There are trigger words in the response and that evokes a huge long many page response from F and then G, H joins in and the dueling starts

Step 6: By the time person X, Y and Z come to the forum the thread has been derailed and there is no possibility of inserting response to A and getting noticed as there is this high powered dueling of ideas going on.

It could be a version of the game - 'Mine is better that yours"....

I don't have a problem with this forum being a place where people come to practice their skills in defending their ideas. There is a place for that kind of work. But I would personally prefer a warm, friendly and welcoming place where opening heart is not an invitation to attack...
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12-30-2010, 08:01 PM,
#85
RE: I'm out of here.
(12-30-2010, 07:52 PM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote:  How do we accommodate everyone's different expectations without infringing on anyone?

Ask the question, "Where is the love in this moment?"

When you can answer it, you will not feel infringed.Heart
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12-30-2010, 08:02 PM,
#86
RE: I'm out of here.
(12-30-2010, 04:21 PM)Seeking One Wrote:  Just another quick follow up to this idea... If you are having a consistently difficult time reading posts from a certain user on this forum, you can easily "unfollow" them.

http://www.bring4th.org/forums/usercp.php?action=editlists

From what I can tell this feature seems to work well and remember that you can always remove the block at a future date if you change your mind.

Smile

I can attest this does work and I am already enjoying the benefits of this. Thanks for sharing Seeking One Heart
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12-30-2010, 08:13 PM, (This post was last modified: 12-30-2010, 08:16 PM by unity100.)
#87
RE: I'm out of here.
(12-30-2010, 08:01 PM)thefool Wrote:  What I see happening is this-
................

if that is what you see in particular to this thread, then what you see is misinformed and incorrect. for, this is the thread titled 'im out of here' by ali quadir, and what you are speaking of in your itemized list, describes the debate in between me (and occasional few others) and nabil naser about the proposed proof for his packed spheres idea.

the greater root of the problem lies not in the second, but the first. after skimming a few past threads, i have noticed that ali was all cozy and happy with discussions in a lot of topics, however, he went the other way whenever religion/god was questioned. this is even more curious, because he had said that he wasnt particularly religious in a pm to me long ago in the summer.

this is not a problem specific to ali, this wasnt the first occasion (i am told), and this wont be the last. there are 2 billion people who have been conditioned to various degrees with religions out of middle/east caanan zone that has been directly seeded by orion, as we are told by ra, with one of them being from directly from orion origin. there is 3600 years of investment on these religions, and karma, conditionings and biases. it is not a philosophical matter of text anymore, but something that is present in societal mind. it is possible that a person could be irritated by any kind of information/idea contradicting these through whatever kind of connection s/he has to societal mind due to innumerable array of reasons (from social circle to biases or even time/space magic), even if s/he is not consciously aware of it. moreover, as we are in an english speaking forum, we are somewhat out of the sphere of the rest 5 billion on this planet, which has not been conditioned with these religions, but other ones without these biases, namely, eastern religions, this and that. due to language differences, we are somewhat isolated from that part of the society, and they, from us.

so, we are basically in a certain bias part of the societal mind, and this will probably happen again, even if all the people in this forum are gone, and new ones have come. it will continue to happen in this forum, and any other place, until those biases and conditionings cleared out from the societal mind.
can reach me@ unity100-gmail
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12-30-2010, 10:26 PM,
#88
RE: I'm out of here. (Interpersonal Relationships on B4)
Deep breaths. What I have watched happen is a loss of trust between Ali and members of this forum. Trust is essential for true growth. I am saddened that the thread has turned into a duel of concepts rather than arriving at a place of consensus as to how to interact with others in a way that empowers them to seek higher. What comes to mind in the previous comments and previous threads is "them fightin' words" Meaning the object of discussion ceases to be about the process of unfoldment and becomes about Winning. The prize of course is the silence of others insuring that the "top" debator is in charge. The emotional sensing discussion is derailed into a power play full of Trolling. Baiting others to find out how they tick so that the other can go in for the kill. If the person winds up leaving the forum, the other just shrugs and pats themselves on the back as the winner. The person who is leaving--- the tone of the other who derailed the emotional sensing to begin with is "that's their problem.'

There is no space for growth where competition between others is present. Competition breeds more Competition. It always leads to greater aggression. If there were not refs and fines in Team Sports it would be a free for all blood bath between opponents. Fair play? Without the refs it would not exist... would not even be a thought. The thought would be instead on winning.

In a Forum such as this, even with a moderator, there is not much growth if there is no trust. Ali, ceased to trust. This is apparent in him leaving. TRUST is an aspect of Love or Unity Consciousness. As is E M P A T H Y and C O M P A S S I O N and F O R G I V E N E S S and U N D E R S T A N D I N G and G E N T L E N E S S and
K I N D N E S S and many other forms of words that describe L O V E or Unity Consciousness--- which is a HUGE part of the Law of One. ( I am spelling not yelling where all caps are located. )

-- fairyfarmgirl
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12-30-2010, 10:30 PM,
#89
RE: I'm out of here.
(12-30-2010, 08:13 PM)unity100 Wrote:  it is not a philosophical matter of text anymore, but something that is present in societal mind. it is possible that a person could be irritated by any kind of information/idea contradicting these through whatever kind of connection s/he has to societal mind due to innumerable array of reasons (from social circle to biases or even time/space magic), even if s/he is not consciously aware of it.

Hi unity100,

There are alot of things that our societal mind is not consciously aware of, and as the planet lightens in consciousness , we are becoming more aware. Hence the thinning of the veil, and subconscious biases coming to light.

I think it's good to discuss these biases, in doing so we bring more awareness.

However, I feel strongly that we have personal responsibility in balancing our own biases, and subconscious triggers, and unconscious reactions...not those of someone else. That is their responsibility.

So maybe it is best to stop worrying so much about societal mind as it is now, and concentrate on your own individual mind, biases and unconscious reactions. Really that is the only thing you have control over.

I understand that it can be frustrating when you perceive others that seem blind to the truth, truth that is very clearly seen by yourself. It's also very possible, and highly probable, that you are misinterpreting, and misunderstanding what they are saying

However, we can only change our individual consciousness, other-selves have their own inner work to do, and we cannot force them to see differently. But we can change our own perception and make it clearer and sharper, and more STO by our inner work.

I hope my words are helpful, if not just let them go.

Best wishes for a happy New Year filled with peace, love and light!
May all Beings everywhere be happy and free
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12-30-2010, 10:40 PM,
#90
RE: I'm out of here.
(12-30-2010, 06:56 PM)Shemaya Wrote:  Hi unity100,

With all due respect, I don't think fairyfarmgirl was furious with you. I interpreted her post as being furious with others in the thread, not you.

I think this is happening because of the veil between our conscious and subconscious minds. We , you, and others are reacting because of internal triggers that we may be unaware of.

This is the "inner work" that Turtle referred to in another thread. To examine and bring to the light of consciousness our veiled aspects so that we can balance them, and heal them and become less reactive and more adept.

Does this make sense?

Thank you, Shemeya,

Yes, I am furious that Trolling was introduced to this thread. It is really does sadden me that there are members here that engage in this type of behavior (probrally laughing and joking and making fun at the confusion). We are REAL LIVE PEOPLE on this forum People with FEELINGS. I just find Trolling to be a reprehensible crime to do toward another. It is a break of Trust when this happens. --fairyfarmgirl
Unity 100, I was not speaking of you, toward you or in any way implying you were a troll. (I am old so excuse my un-hipness... lol)

I am saddened that you and Ali had an argument. Arguments tend to tear apart rather than enhance life. Debate is a form of argument. There is a winner and loser in a debate. Discourse on the other hand is a discussion that spirals upward leading to greater understanding and connection to source. Those of us who are emotional-sensing types are particularly affect by debate. Debates can become shouting matches.

Unity 100-- You are obviously brilliant. I rarely enter into a discussion with you because I would be way over my head in 10 seconds... or 10 words. So I just read and learn from you as best as I am able. Sometimes I have no idea as to what you are speaking about. I am the same way when other Scientificly minded people begin to speak as well. Mathematics--- I am an intuitive. I just know it works and it does... to prove it. I am sunk and drowning. There is no way to prove an intuitive knowing. It is something that just is. This is why I would sink as soon as entering into a discussion with you. You require proof. I have none to give you in words. I emote.

I am discoursing with you. I do not wish for debate, rebuttals, or proofs. I am simply expressing myself the best I can to you.

I apologize for causing any wounds to you, Unity 100. I bless you with Love. I am sorry. Please Forgive me. Thank you.

fairyfarmgirl
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