I'm out of here. (Interpersonal Relationships on B4)
12-30-2010, 10:45 PM, (This post was last modified: 12-30-2010, 10:52 PM by Monica.)
#91
RE: I'm out of here. (Interpersonal Relationships on B4)
(12-30-2010, 10:26 PM)fairyfarmgirl Wrote:  The prize of course is the silence of others insuring that the "top" debator is in charge. The emotional sensing discussion is derailed into a power play full of Trolling. Baiting others to find out how they tick so that the other can go in for the kill.

Wow. That is some intense stuff, Fairy. Sad

Thank you for sharing. I am absolutely stunned that you interpret the sharing of ideas and the asking of questions as a powerplay.

In the many various communication/relationships courses available, people are encouraged to ask others questions, as an invitation for them to share their own ideas, not to 'bait' them.

Participants in these courses are taught that it's important to listen to the other person, and ask questions, so that the other person has a chance to express themselves, and so that they aren't misunderstood.

When we don't listen to the other person, we often make erroneous assumptions about their motivations.

By asking questions, we offer the other person a chance to speak for themselves, instead of us assuming we know their opinion already.

In addition to business communication trainings, many parenting books and family counselors also advocate the asking of questions. Rather than assuming we know what the other person is thinking, we ask them "Do you mean this?" or "Can you explain please what you are feeling/thinking?" which invites them to share their thoughts.

By asking questions, we are encouraging the other person to share, instead of just tooting our own horn. We listen instead of just waiting to talk.

The art of listening and asking questions is considered highly valuable in relationships, by therapists, family counselors, etc. I had never heard of these things being perceived in a negative light before, so your viewpoint is quite an eye-opener for me!

I am stunned that these commonly promoted relationship/communication techniques are being viewed negatively in an internet forum setting, to the point of being viewed as interrogation and even 'baiting.'

This is quite insightful but extremely disconcerting.

Thank you for this insight, Fairy.

I invite you to consider that you may be mistaken when you assume that the motivation of others is to 'win' or gain power over others.
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12-30-2010, 10:51 PM,
#92
RE: I'm out of here. (Interpersonal Relationships on B4)
(12-30-2010, 10:26 PM)fairyfarmgirl Wrote:  There is no space for growth where competition between others is present. Competition breeds more Competition. It always leads to greater aggression. If there were not refs and fines in Team Sports it would be a free for all blood bath between opponents. Fair play? Without the refs it would not exist... would not even be a thought. The thought would be instead on winning.

In a Forum such as this, even with a moderator, there is not much growth if there is no trust. Ali, ceased to trust. This is apparent in him leaving. TRUST is an aspect of Love or Unity Consciousness. As is E M P A T H Y and C O M P A S S I O N and F O R G I V E N E S S and U N D E R S T A N D I N G and G E N T L E N E S S and
K I N D N E S S and many other forms of words that describe L O V E or Unity Consciousness--- which is a HUGE part of the Law of One. ( I am spelling not yelling where all caps are located. )

-- fairyfarmgirl

Thank you fairy! very wise words.

One thing that I in my life have noticed is that aggression can be both active and passive....so that someone may be aggressive with their energy even though the words they are using don't appear that way at face value.

But in a forum like this, that can be sensed and often comes across in a post.

I think that it is very possible and common that someone might be unaware of how aggressive their words are actually coming across, actually unaware of all that is coming across in their energy.

I had alot of subconscious passive aggression earlier in my life that I have worked on balancing for many years. In my 20's I was completely unaware of it though, it was subconscious. Thankfully now I think I have cleared it PTL! Although i am not claiming perfection !!

I agree with you , fairy, about competition and the emphasis on winning. Clearly a major societal bias that needs to be cleared. Between capitalism and the millions spent on pro-sports (instead of creating a world with no poverty), we sure have our priorities mixed up in this 3-d world.

But we do need to see clearly the Unity and Oneness before that can change. And as we do that individually the entire planet will transform as a whole. Exciting!

A planet filled with compassion, trust, empathy, forgiveness and love. WowHeart
May all Beings everywhere be happy and free
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12-30-2010, 10:52 PM,
#93
RE: I'm out of here.
I was referring to the hypocrisy of trolling when being a Vegan or member of PETA. Both are proport to living life in a higher state of being and being in harmony with others.

I was also giving an example of being a troll.

I am furious that there are members here that troll. This is clear otherwise it would not have been introduced into this thread.

And yes, the very idea (the first form of manifestation) of trolling leaves me feeling a bit emotionally unsafe. Now I feel as if I must have my shields up before entering into any discussion. This was the one place that I felt a sense of trust. Mainly because of the members and moderators.

fairyfarmgirl

(12-30-2010, 06:57 PM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote:  
(12-30-2010, 06:52 PM)Lorna Wrote:  i feel as though i'm missing something here

i find unity's posts regularly thought provoking and interesting, his communmication style, as highlighted by monica, is not one with which i am naturally drawn to, but i read because i find value in many of his posts. for this i am grateful.

ali is leaving for his own reasons which may have been triggered by interactions on this board, but nevertheless this is not the first time that ali has withdrawn from bring4th for a period of time. last time he did so he indicated that it was an important period of personal growth and development for him. his decision to focus his energies elsewhere are his own concern, while his input to bring4th has clearly been appreciated by a great many people i would think it unlikely that a decision by him to withdraw could be blamed on another member

and if a member was behaving in a deliberately provocative way to disable the participation of another member, then this is a positively moderated forum, monica and the other moderators are more than capeable of sensitively addressing any deliberately damaging behaviour on the forum

can we not have faith in each other that each of us is communicating and contributing from a position of sincere seeking?

THANK YOU LORNA!!! Smile

Very well said!
(12-30-2010, 06:12 PM)fairyfarmgirl Wrote:  All you vegans and PETA's should be really upset now.

Are you trying to give an example of trolling? Wink

(12-30-2010, 06:12 PM)fairyfarmgirl Wrote:  Tolling is Very Cruel for a forum such as this. I am saddened that Trolling is considered a sport by some on this forum. I will be very careful what I post here from now on. Serious seekers should beware this is no longer a safe place to bare your soul,speak about topics of great sensitivity, and do not tell your stories.

Maybe I'm just ignorant about trolling, but I honestly don't understand what you are referring to. I have not seen anything on Bring4th that matches what you just described.

Fairy, are you saying you feel trolling is so rampant here that you no longer feel safe in expressing yourself?

If so, can you please explain? I truly don't have any idea what you are referring to. I don't understand how I could read nearly all the threads everyday and miss something like that.
Huh
(12-30-2010, 04:59 PM)Aaron Wrote:  In regards to "unfollowing" or blocking someone, wouldn't that be counter-productive to someone who is practicing the love and acceptance of all? Blocking off what you don't want to see and pretending everything's peachy is like sweeping dirt under the rug. The catalyst would catch up to you in a more pronounced way later on anyway...

Exactly!

The keyword for the STO path is [i]acceptance.

How is it accepting an other-self, to reject them?

We don't have to agree with someone, to accept them.

We can accept that their perspective is valid, without agreeing or letting them push our buttons.

If they are pushing our buttons, we can be sure there is some aspect of ourselves that is being suppressed.

However, if a person isn't ready to face those suppressed aspects, it would be preferable to ignore the other member, than to become confrontational or hostile, and allow discord into the community.

So it seems that acceptance of the other self is optimal, but, barring that, ignoring them would better than bickering with them.

(12-30-2010, 04:59 PM)Aaron Wrote:  Going by that definition, either I'm naive, or I haven't seen any real tolling going on here.

Thank you Aaron! I haven't either. Not in awhile anyway.

(12-30-2010, 04:59 PM)Aaron Wrote:  This isn't the kind of place that that kind of thing happens. This is a place visited by people of higher consciousness. Rather, what I see happening is what unity100 describes. Person A posts ideas that they've formed using their intuition or independent thinking. Person B questions their ideas based on their own model of the universe, also built with intuition and/or independent thinking. Person A doesn't take it as best as they could. Instead of viewing the challenge to their idea as something that can help them farther develop their own ideas, coming from a friendly source, person A may see it as a threat, or something unfriendly.

I think that if we consciously practice what Monica has said about becoming aware of other's styles of thinking and communication, these misunderstandings can be prevented. Also, when I see someone present an idea they've formed with intuition or independent thinking, I first congratulate them, either mentally or through actually telling them, and make an effort to love them as a fellow human being who has freed his mind from the societal bias. I feel great joy that they've been able to come even that far. Even if their idea can be questioned or challenged by my information, I always try to remember to speak from the heart, and not discourage them from thinking for themselves in the future. I think this is helpful in maintaining a loving environment where no-one is pressured or made unnecessarily uncomfortable while learning takes place.

Exactly! Well said!
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12-30-2010, 10:55 PM, (This post was last modified: 12-31-2010, 12:50 AM by Monica.)
#94
RE: I'm out of here.
(12-30-2010, 10:40 PM)fairyfarmgirl Wrote:  Yes, I am furious that Trolling was introduced to this thread.

Why are a few people talking about trolling?? Will somebody PLEASE point out the trolling to me so I'll know what you're talking about? Huh

I am clueless.

(12-30-2010, 10:40 PM)fairyfarmgirl Wrote:  It is really does sadden me that there are members here that engage in this type of behavior (probrally laughing and joking and making fun at the confusion). We are REAL LIVE PEOPLE on this forum People with FEELINGS. I just find Trolling to be a reprehensible crime to do toward another. It is a break of Trust when this happens.

I've only seen that happen once on this forum, and that was awhile ago. None of our current members are intentionally trolling then laughing and joking about it. I have gotten to know our members. I deal with everyone on a daily basis. No one is intentionally trying to hurt anyone else. Of this I am absolutely certain.

It's easy to imagine the motives of others, but most of the time, we are injecting our own biases and fears onto them.


(12-30-2010, 10:40 PM)fairyfarmgirl Wrote:  Unity 100-- You are obviously brilliant. I rarely enter into a discussion with you because I would be way over my head in 10 seconds... or 10 words. So I just read and learn from you as best as I am able. Sometimes I have no idea as to what you are speaking about. I am the same way when other Scientificly minded people begin to speak as well. Mathematics--- I am an intuitive. I just know it works and it does... to prove it. I am sunk and drowning. There is no way to prove an intuitive knowing. It is something that just is. This is why I would sink as soon as entering into a discussion with you. You require proof. I have none to give you in words. I emote.

I am discoursing with you. I do not wish for debate, rebuttals, or proofs. I am simply expressing myself the best I can to you.

I apologize for causing any wounds to you, Unity 100. I bless you with Love. I am sorry. Please Forgive me. Thank you.

Beautiful sharing, Fairy! Heart

And I think we are finally getting someplace.


-----Random musings NOT directed at you, Fairy, or at anyone in particular------

HOW do we accommodate the different styles of relating, when all we have are words? How do we make room for emoting, and for the equally important and beautiful gifts like intuition, such as what Fairy has?

And, how do we 'intuit' when the other person wishes to discuss deeply, and when they don't? How do we know when to ask questions that will be well received, and when our questions will be perceived as intrusive?
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12-30-2010, 11:06 PM,
#95
RE: I'm out of here. (Interpersonal Relationships on B4)
(12-30-2010, 10:45 PM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote:  
(12-30-2010, 10:26 PM)fairyfarmgirl Wrote:  The prize of course is the silence of others insuring that the "top" debator is in charge. The emotional sensing discussion is derailed into a power play full of Trolling. Baiting others to find out how they tick so that the other can go in for the kill.

Wow. That is some intense stuff, Fairy. Sad

Thank you for sharing. I am absolutely stunned that you interpret the sharing of ideas and the asking of questions as a powerplay.

In the many various communication/relationships courses available, people are encouraged to ask others questions, as an invitation for them to share their own ideas, not to 'bait' them.

Participants in these courses are taught that it's important to listen to the other person, and ask questions, so that the other person has a chance to express themselves, and so that they aren't misunderstood.

When we don't listen to the other person, we often make erroneous assumptions about their motivations.

By asking questions, we offer the other person a chance to speak for themselves, instead of us assuming we know their opinion already.

In addition to business communication trainings, many parenting books and family counselors also advocate the asking of questions. Rather than assuming we know what the other person is thinking, we ask them "Do you mean this?" or "Can you explain please what you are feeling/thinking?" which invites them to share their thoughts.

By asking questions, we are encouraging the other person to share, instead of just tooting our own horn. We listen instead of just waiting to talk.

The art of listening and asking questions is considered highly valuable in relationships, by therapists, family counselors, etc. I had never heard of these things being perceived in a negative light before, so your viewpoint is quite an eye-opener for me!

I am stunned that these commonly promoted relationship/communication techniques are being viewed negatively in an internet forum setting, to the point of being viewed as interrogation and even 'baiting.'

This is quite insightful but extremely disconcerting.

Thank you for this insight, Fairy.

I invite you to consider that you may be mistaken when you assume that the motivation of others is to 'win' or gain power over others.

Monica--

In some threads I find that there is active debating going on. Where there is a definite tone of my way and agree with me or get off this thread vibe. It is okay. I get off the thread. No harm done to me if I do not particpate. Debate requires a winner. That is the nature of a debate. Debate is not about understanding, conscensus or unity. It is about debate: the argument and winning.. It is about getting others to go along with what you believe by providing your proof.

Questions do not necessarily equal debate. Questions can inspire discourse or fuel debate. Although there is a way to ask questions that provoke strong emotional responses and throw others off balance (this is destructive debate and a form of trolling). It depends on the nature of the questions. Without questioning there is no growth. Questioning is very important. I was not saying not to question--- only to ask questions in a way that empowers another. We are all different types of seekers. Some of us are way out there: alien abductions, numerology, sacred geometry, ET telepathy, Telepathy, Telekinisis, etc. And Some of us require PROOF from others that that these are verifiable truths based upon the 5 senses (convienently leaving out intuition, empathy). Thus, in a line of questioning that is demanding proof with the tone that you are loon for your (ahem) beliefs. This is destructive to the other person and other people who (ahem) believe or have experienced these phenomena.

For some reason I feel as I am failing quite miserably at expressing myself. Now that I have made a holy mess out of my comments. I apologize.

fairyfarmgirl
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12-30-2010, 11:08 PM, (This post was last modified: 12-31-2010, 12:33 AM by Monica.)
#96
RE: I'm out of here.
(12-30-2010, 10:52 PM)fairyfarmgirl Wrote:  I was referring to the hypocrisy of trolling when being a Vegan or member of PETA. Both are proport to living life in a higher state of being and being in harmony with others.

Well, being a vegan, I find it disconcerting to be lumped in by such a blanket statement about an entire group of people. I don't think it's fair at all to accuse all vegans and PETA members of being hypocrites, just because they choose a different lifestyle than you.

(12-30-2010, 10:52 PM)fairyfarmgirl Wrote:  I was also giving an example of being a troll.

Expressing one's opinion about diet in a thread about diet, is being a troll? Huh

OK glad to finally get a definition of troll.

(12-30-2010, 10:52 PM)fairyfarmgirl Wrote:  I am furious that there are members here that troll. This is clear otherwise it would not have been introduced into this thread.

It wasn't clear before, but it sure is now! Crystal clear.

(12-30-2010, 10:52 PM)fairyfarmgirl Wrote:  And yes, the very idea (the first form of manifestation) of trolling leaves me feeling a bit emotionally unsafe. Now I feel as if I must have my shields up before entering into any discussion.

I'm sorry to hear you feel unsafe here. I had no idea! So thank you for having the courage to express this! Do you feel you have been attacked, Fairy?

(12-30-2010, 10:52 PM)fairyfarmgirl Wrote:  This was the one place that I felt a sense of trust. Mainly because of the members and moderators.

Because of the members and mods you felt safe?

Or...

Because of the members and mods you felt attacked?

Just trying to understand you, Fairy.
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12-30-2010, 11:24 PM,
#97
RE: I'm out of here. (Interpersonal Relationships on B4)
Trolling is what makes me feel unsafe.

I apologize for my comment.

fairyfarmgirl
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12-30-2010, 11:25 PM,
#98
RE: I'm out of here. (Interpersonal Relationships on B4)
(12-30-2010, 11:06 PM)fairyfarmgirl Wrote:  Monica--

In some threads I find that there is active debating going on.

I understand. As I mentioned in my previous post in this thread, a point-by-point, back-and-forth detailed discussion can seem like a debate to someone who has a more intuitive style.

(12-30-2010, 11:06 PM)fairyfarmgirl Wrote:  Where there is a definite tone of my way and agree with me or get off this thread vibe. It is okay. I get off the thread. No harm done to me if I do not particpate. Debate requires a winner. That is the nature of a debate. Debate is not about understanding, conscensus or unity. It is about debate: the argument and winning.. It is about getting others to go along with what you believe by providing your proof.

I understand and agree that debate is about winning.

I also understand that, to an intuitive person, back-and-forth detailed discussion can seem like debate.

However, to those who enjoy back-and-forth detailed discussion, it's not about winning at all!

2 people who enjoy such discussion can interact for hours in such a fashion, and find it invigorating! Each person learns from the other, and no one is a winner and no one is a loser. It's not about winning or losing. It's about the sharing of ideas.

Again, I understand how it might seem that way to you, since your style is different. But I invite you to consider that, the way you perceive it ("winning") isn't the way they perceive it.

Neither way is good or bad. They're just different styles.

(12-30-2010, 11:06 PM)fairyfarmgirl Wrote:  Questions do not necessarily equal debate. Questions can inspire debate. Although there is a way to ask questions that provoke strong emotional responses and throw others off balance. It depends on the nature of the questions.

Is there anything you can suggest, as to how questions might be asked in a way that is not perceived as confrontational?

(12-30-2010, 11:06 PM)fairyfarmgirl Wrote:  For some reason I feel as I am failing quite miserably at expressing myself. Now that I have made a holy mess out of my comments. I apologize.

Nothing to apologize for! You aren't failing at all! And you haven't made a mess at all!!! On the contrary, I am very happy that you are sharing your feelings and thoughts - they are very insightful! You have made a significant contribution to this process, Fairy, and I really appreciate it!
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12-30-2010, 11:26 PM,
#99
RE: I'm out of here. (Interpersonal Relationships on B4)
Is mercury retrograde? I am signing off now as I have made such a mess of things and each attempt to express and fix results in more confusion. I apologize once again for my limitations with words and my communication style.

fairy
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12-30-2010, 11:30 PM, (This post was last modified: 12-31-2010, 12:23 AM by Monica.)
RE: I'm out of here. (Interpersonal Relationships on B4)
(12-30-2010, 11:26 PM)fairyfarmgirl Wrote:  Is mercury retrograde? I am signing off now as I have made such a mess of things and each attempt to express and fix results in more confusion. I apologize once again for my limitations with words and my communication style.

You haven't made a mess of things, Fairy! Did you see my last post? I just said how much I appreciated your insights!

OK, somebody clue me in. Did I screw up by asking you questions, Fairy?

You just expressed some heavy-duty stuff about feeling unsafe, attacked, etc. As the moderator of this forum, I have a responsibility to try to fix things, IF POSSIBLE.

I don't know if it's possible for me to fix anything, in this case. I cannot single-handedly solve everyone's interrelationship problems.

But clearly, some of your complaints were directed at me. (Unless there are any other vegans hanging around this thread?) I just got called a troll by 2 people! Huh So, in order to make amends or at least understand what you are feeling, in the hopes of reconciling, I need to ask some questions!

How else can we understand, if we don't ask questions?

But maybe my mistake was in thinking that you wanted resolution? Maybe I shouldn't assume that people want a solution. Sometimes people just need to vent.

If that's the case, then I'm sorry for trying to fix it when my efforts weren't wanted.
(12-30-2010, 10:51 PM)Shemaya Wrote:  One thing that I in my life have noticed is that aggression can be both active and passive....so that someone may be aggressive with their energy even though the words they are using don't appear that way at face value.

In real life, that is very true.

(12-30-2010, 10:51 PM)Shemaya Wrote:  But in a forum like this, that can be sensed and often comes across in a post.

I strongly disagree and in fact I think that is a large part of the problem here.

We THINK we can accurately perceive tone and intent by reading just words on a page, but since we lack the advantage of hearing the voice, seeing the facial expressions, body language, etc. we are often wrong, and this is exactly what causes much of the misunderstanding in emails and internet discussions.

(12-30-2010, 10:51 PM)Shemaya Wrote:  I think that it is very possible and common that someone might be unaware of how aggressive their words are actually coming across, actually unaware of all that is coming across in their energy.

It might also be very possible, and even more probable, that the person is simply mistaken in their perceptions. The person being accused of having aggressive intent might be totally innocent, and the other person just simply misunderstanding intent, since the lack the tone, facial expressions, etc.

Being privy to some pm's from members expressing dismay at being repeatedly understood, I can say conclusively that, most of the time, when someone thinks they understand the other person's motivation, they are actually wrong. They are injecting tone, attitude, anger, and even malicious intent when it's not there at all.

I just started a new thread to explore this very thing:

Life on Planet Earth > Cognitive Distortions and Forum Relationships

These cognitive distortions occur in everyday life, in person.

How much moreso do they occur in superficial relationships, with only the typed words to go by?
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12-30-2010, 11:49 PM,
RE: I'm out of here. (Interpersonal Relationships on B4)
I will chirp in again

Guys look at creation what is creation if not infinite diversity, infinite perspectives, infinite lives.

I try to see the world the same way, everyone and everything is different at the first glance.

I don't think the creator thinks to itself,
"oh look here it is the bad belief bad bad belief go away from me" It would be invalidating an aspect of itself, not going to happen. The so called bad belief is an experience of the Creator.

Now there will be those that will look deeper and find the love of the creator embedded like a thread in all things , this are those of the positive path, the allowing path.

Now the very fact of accepting and allowing will make you different from those that do not accept and do not allow and do not trust All that is.

This is a vibrational universe it organizes itself that way,just trust that and be who you are.

Be who you are.

Be who you are.

and reality and creation will unfold accordingly.

My last thought regarding all this ;D

Namaste
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12-31-2010, 12:05 AM,
RE: I'm out of here.
(12-30-2010, 06:12 PM)fairyfarmgirl Wrote:  AngryAngryAngryAngryAngryAngryAngryAngry

In my day this was called Bear Baiting with a heavy dose of manipulation. All you vegans and PETA's should be really upset now. [/i]

Baiting a Bear is intentionally created chaos and havoc in order to illicit an aggressive response. Through the selective poking of the bear with sharp sticks, swords, batons, staves and rocks. So the bear lunges at impaling itself unwittingly allowing the "huntsman" to draw blood and through successive mutilation the bear is killed. This is all in the name of power.

The metaphor hopefully is not lost on you all. Tolling is Very Cruel for a forum such as this[i]. I am saddened that Trolling is considered a sport by some on this forum. I will be very careful what I post here from now on. Serious seekers should beware this is no longer a safe place to bare your soul,speak about topics of great sensitivity, and do not tell your stories.

I Bless you with Love and Light
fairyfarmgirl

Your metaphor seems spot on, fairy! However, the rest of what you say seems to be a fear based response. I'm sorry of my post has caused fear. Sad That's the opposite of what I intended, and what I want to see here!

I don't think we can say for sure that some members are trolling, or that it is a sport enjoyed by some here, or whatnot. I don't think we have any evidence for that.

In fact, I think that the bearing of one's soul to others here is a crucial part of learning for those who choose to be a part of these forms. That's what the movement to 4th density is about - seeing another as an unlimited soul rather than a limited person. Ra refers to other selves as "the sub-logoi which you so carelessly call a person".

If you feel that this is an unsafe place to share yourself, please tell us why! Let's see if we can figure out what's causing the upset.
"A mountain holds an echo deep inside. That's how I hold your voice."
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12-31-2010, 12:25 AM,
RE: I'm out of here.
I wish that you would keep me out of this, Unity
I felt that you were unfriendly and rude, and I told you so. This should have stayed between us. You chose to bring all into the open, and now you are acting like a victim.
Do you honestly want people to give you reasons for the way they feel? Do you think that this would be a good idea?
You have hinted over and over again that you were called unfriendly and rude. Why is that? Is it because that you don't think that you have been?
Or is it because you believe that no one should express their feelings so openly?
All I wanted, from the beginning, is for you to leave me alone. Yes, I said the words that I did. I am like that. I write honestly and freely.

You can't blame me for being who I am.


(12-30-2010, 08:13 PM)unity100 Wrote:  
(12-30-2010, 08:01 PM)thefool Wrote:  What I see happening is this-
................

if that is what you see in particular to this thread, then what you see is misinformed and incorrect. for, this is the thread titled 'im out of here' by ali quadir, and what you are speaking of in your itemized list, describes the debate in between me (and occasional few others) and nabil naser about the proposed proof for his packed spheres idea.

the greater root of the problem lies not in the second, but the first. after skimming a few past threads, i have noticed that ali was all cozy and happy with discussions in a lot of topics, however, he went the other way whenever religion/god was questioned. this is even more curious, because he had said that he wasnt particularly religious in a pm to me long ago in the summer.

this is not a problem specific to ali, this wasnt the first occasion (i am told), and this wont be the last. there are 2 billion people who have been conditioned to various degrees with religions out of middle/east caanan zone that has been directly seeded by orion, as we are told by Ra, with one of them being from directly from orion origin. there is 3600 years of investment on these religions, and karma, conditionings and biases. it is not a philosophical matter of text anymore, but something that is present in societal mind. it is possible that a person could be irritated by any kind of information/idea contradicting these through whatever kind of connection s/he has to societal mind due to innumerable array of reasons (from social circle to biases or even time/space magic), even if s/he is not consciously aware of it. moreover, as we are in an english speaking forum, we are somewhat out of the sphere of the rest 5 billion on this planet, which has not been conditioned with these religions, but other ones without these biases, namely, eastern religions, this and that. due to language differences, we are somewhat isolated from that part of the society, and they, from us.

so, we are basically in a certain bias part of the societal mind, and this will probably happen again, even if all the people in this forum are gone, and new ones have come. it will continue to happen in this forum, and any other place, until those biases and conditionings cleared out from the societal mind.
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12-31-2010, 12:43 AM,
RE: I'm out of here. (Interpersonal Relationships on B4)
(12-30-2010, 11:49 PM)Experience You Wrote:  Be who you are.

Be who you are.

and reality and creation will unfold accordingly.

My last thought regarding all this ;D

Namaste

Great insights Experience You. Thank you for sharing your thoughts,
Namaste

Quote:We THINK we can accurately perceive tone and intent by reading just words on a page, but since we lack the advantage of hearing the voice, seeing the facial expressions, body language, etc. we are often wrong, and this is exactly what causes much of the misunderstanding in emails and internet discussions.

Hi Monica,
I am certain that I can perceive someone's energy by their post, their writing style, and the words they use. You can tell if they are very yin or very yang, if they are emotional or intellectual, if they are centered or imbalanced. There is alot that you can perceive in an internet forum. I can definitely perceive these things, but I admit I am not 100% accurate in my perceptions, nor am I 100% perfect in anything in my life. Of course there will be inaccurate perceptions.

And I agree when it comes down to it, it is very superficial, especially on a forum like this.

I think when there is a discussion happening on a forum there are many layers to the energetic interaction going on, it's not all about the content, and the truth/accuracy of what is being said. There is underlying, subconscious energy being exchanged as well. That is what I am talking about...I am saying that we all have individual responsibility for our own energy and how we express it.

Whenever we express ourselves, our other-selves will mirror our energy back to us...so it's a pretty good feedback mechanism to see what it is we should look at within our own being, especially if the feedback and reactions we are getting are uncomfortable. That's a sure sign that there is something within us to be uncovered and put in the light of consciousness, so that we can transform it within our own being.

Just some thoughts...I have been doing the "inner work" for quite some time now, so these are some of my insights based on my experience.

Does this make sense?
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12-31-2010, 01:05 AM, (This post was last modified: 12-31-2010, 01:12 AM by Monica.)
RE: I'm out of here. (Interpersonal Relationships on B4)
(12-31-2010, 12:43 AM)Shemaya Wrote:  Hi Monica,
I am certain that I can perceive someone's energy by their post, their writing style, and the words they use. You can tell if they are very yin or very yang, if they are emotional or intellectual, if they are centered or imbalanced. There is alot that you can perceive in an internet forum. I can definitely perceive these things, but I admit I am not 100% accurate in my perceptions, nor am I 100% perfect in anything in my life. Of course there will be inaccurate perceptions.

And I agree when it comes down to it, it is very superficial, especially on a forum like this.

I think when there is a discussion happening on a forum there are many layers to the energetic interaction going on, it's not all about the content, and the truth/accuracy of what is being said. There is underlying, subconscious energy being exchanged as well. That is what I am talking about...I am saying that we all have individual responsibility for our own energy and how we express it.

Whenever we express ourselves, our other-selves will mirror our energy back to us...so it's a pretty good feedback mechanism to see what it is we should look at within our own being, especially if the feedback and reactions we are getting are uncomfortable. That's a sure sign that there is something within us to be uncovered and put in the light of consciousness, so that we can transform it within our own being.

Just some thoughts...I have been doing the "inner work" for quite some time now, so these are some of my insights based on my experience.

Does this make sense?

Yes it does, Shemaya. And you might be right in many cases. I definitely agree that other-selves mirror our own energy to us and that if we are uncomfortable, that's a sure sign that there is something in us to be uncovered and transformed. I agree with that part and wish everyone could remember that, instead of blaming others for the discomfort they feel.

Where I disagree is in how much we should depend on our subjective perceptions, when assessing the motivations of another.

Case in point: Recently, a friend told me almost exactly what you just told me. He said that he was a very intuitive person, and could detect tone, attitude, and the motivation of other people by reading their words.

His intuition apparently serves him well in life. He told me he was rarely wrong.

And yet, after we exchanged a few emails, he accused me of having a certain 'tone' in my emails that conveyed a certain emotion.

He was wrong. Quite simply and quite thoroughly wrong! I was feeling no such emotion. In fact, my emotions weren't even close to what he thought I was feeling; I was feeling closer to the opposite of what he thought.

This happened not once, but several times with this person. And this is someone who has probably as much trust in his perceptions as you do in yours.

To be clear: I'm NOT saying that you are wrong in your perceptions. Maybe you are right most of the time. I just know that I have been on the receiving end of someone erroneously intuiting my intentions based on nothing more than typed words in an email. I experienced being falsely judged by another person based on the same process that you described.

I have also seen it happen countless times on this forum. A member will totally, I mean totally, misinterpret another member's intentions, so drastically that it would be comical if it weren't so sad.

I am not in any way judging your own method, if it works for you. I'm just saying that I've seen people put too much trust in such methods, and this backfires. Maybe they're not as good at it as you are, and as they think they are. I'm inclined to think that, although it might work great for someone really clear, who isn't afraid to look in the mirror and confront her own self that is being mirrored by the other person, and transform those aspects. You seem to be such a person, which is why it probably works fine for you and you may actually be right most of the time.

But very few people are willing to really look at themselves, and this is when such perceptions can be easily clouded by their own unresolved issues, and they project those issues onto the other person, and imagine motivations that aren't there at all.

You are probably an exception who can pull it off. But I have seen many people claim to do that, and they were very wrong. And it wasn't just my subjective opinion that they were wrong. It was proven because I was hearing from both people at the same time. The disconnect was palpable.
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12-31-2010, 01:28 AM, (This post was last modified: 12-31-2010, 01:33 AM by Aaron.)
RE: I'm out of here.
thefool Wrote:Aaron- you write a thoughtful response and I would like to add my thoughts.

I don't think it would be counter productive for someone who is PRACTICING the love and acceptance. If we are all enlightened masters then yes you are right. But some of us are not there yet !!! Even in real life we don't engage with willing people interesting in cheating and manipulating (I am not saying this is happening here). We draw some boundaries to have some emotional sanctuary in physical lives.

I place myself in the "not there yet" group you talk about. :p You draw a parallel between blocking someone here on bring4th, and not hanging out with someone of negative influence in "real life". (Correct me if I'm wrong here, please.) Although I do see the point you're making, I can't see how it holds true here. I think that everyone whos life leads them to post in a place like this has something valuable from the other side of the veil to share. So if you do block someone, I would say be careful. I don't think it's a problem solver. However, if it helps you gain more clarity while visiting this place of sanctuary, then I'm glad that some good can come from it.

thefool Wrote:This is a place that is supposed to provide that sanctuary and not become this hostile place where people are not able to open their heart out and expect love and compassion. Because they are concerned getting torn apart in the name of wisdom and truth. There has to be a balance between the so called wisdom and the love and compassion this place is supposed to provide. It is not supposed to provide this kind of on-going dueling of ideas. But an emotional sanctuary. That is just my opinion on what I expect this forum to be for the members.

I share your opinion on what the forum is, as well as on balancing our challenging of others' ideas with love, as I talked about on one of my previous posts. I like what Monica has said about the forum being different things for different people. Is it possible for bring4th to be a place that is fulfilling to all who have an high enough consciousness to find value in it? And can it safely support all methods of learning as they all come together in our quest for eventual harmony? In regards to your next post after the one I'm quoting now: I do think that it has gone that way in at least one or two threads.

To Turtle: I didn't say that, but I might as well have! Hahaha that's funny!

To Monica: in the event that there are two choices, choice 1 being to block the other member, and choice 2 being to invite disharmony, I would agree with you that choice 1 would be better. But I would only say that would be so if the person can't choose choice 3, to invite the other and himself into the open heart, taking a moment to collect himself fully there before moving on and speaking again.
"A mountain holds an echo deep inside. That's how I hold your voice."
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12-31-2010, 01:38 AM, (This post was last modified: 12-31-2010, 01:42 AM by Shemaya.)
RE: I'm out of here. (Interpersonal Relationships on B4)
Quote:And yet, after we exchanged a few emails, he accused me of having a certain 'tone' in my emails that conveyed a certain emotion.

Another way of looking at this is maybe he sensed the energy, and you were unaware that you projected that energy. There are very few masters/adepts who are completely aware of all the energy that they radiate and project. We are doing well if we are aware of 51%, and choose to radiate love, according to Ra, but what about the other 49% of our words and actions and deeds? That might be completely unconscious, us just reacting, or living on autopilot.

I am saying that we aren't aware of our energy at times, so if we are unaware, how could we possibly have an intention of being what we are unaware of.

We may be responsible for projecting a certain "tone" and not be aware of our own "tone".

Quote:But very few people are willing to really look at themselves, and this is when such perceptions can be easily clouded by their own unresolved issues, and they project those issues onto the other person, and imagine motivations that aren't there at all.

Granted issues get clouded back and forth, sometimes it gets really muddy. That is why personal responsibility is so important.

But isn't this the heart of the STO path, to look in the mirror at ourselves, and discover how to BE our truest deep self which is love light and unity? So if we aren't willing to look at ourselves then what are we doing here?
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12-31-2010, 01:47 AM, (This post was last modified: 12-31-2010, 03:16 AM by Monica.)
RE: I'm out of here.
(12-31-2010, 01:28 AM)Aaron Wrote:  To Monica: in the event that there are two choices, choice 1 being to block the other member, and choice 2 being to invite disharmony, I would agree with you that choice 1 would be better. But I would only say that would be so if the person can't choose choice 3, to invite the other and himself into the open heart, taking a moment to collect himself fully there before moving on and speaking again.

Agreed! That is exactly what I was trying to convey.
(12-31-2010, 01:38 AM)Shemaya Wrote:  Another way of looking at this is maybe he sensed the energy, and you were unaware that you projected that energy. There are very few masters/adepts who are completely aware of all the energy that they radiate and project. We are doing well if we are aware of 51%, and choose to radiate love, according to Ra, but what about the other 49% of our words and actions and deeds? That might be completely unconscious, us just reacting, or living on autopilot.

I am saying that we aren't aware of our energy at times, so if we are unaware, how could we possibly have an intention of being what we are unaware of.

We may be responsible for projecting a certain "tone" and not be aware of our own "tone".

With something as nebulous as tone or energy, sure. But I am speaking of emotions and motivations, which we do usually consciously know. In this case, the person insisted that he could perceive anger in my words, and I know that I wasn't feeling any anger at that particular time.

I'm a Taurus. Taureans are known to not get angry very often. Taureans very, very rarely get angry, but when they do, they blow up!

So I am quite aware of when I am feeling angry and when I'm not. For me, anger is like a switch that suddenly turns on. As astrologer Linda Goodman said of Taureans (paraphrased) "The Bull can handle a lot of load on his broad back, but when it finally does reach too much, he snaps, and becomes a Raging Bull!"

I have found Linda's astrological assessment to be very accurate, in my own experiences with anger. I just don't get angry at things other people commonly get angry about. I just don't feel the least bit phased. But when I finally do get angry, it's intense!

I realize sometimes people might not even be aware of their emotions, or they might be in denial about them. But in my case, being a Taurus, my own anger isn't something I'm mistaken about. It would be like mistaking a bicycle for a speeding train!

That is just my own experience with this person.

In addition, I'll receive pm's from various members, expressing their feelings about other members. They might tell me how they are trying to get along with so-and-so and maybe are feeling frustrated, or hurt, or whatever. Maybe they genuinely like the other person.

Meanwhile, the other person is also pm'ing me, about the first member, and accuses the first member of intentionally trying to hurt them, or whatever.

In this case, neither person knows that I am seeing both sides. And I know that they are both wrong about the other. In nearly all cases, the mistake is due to erroneously perceiving the other person's tone and intentions, based on injecting their own distortion into typed words that intended no such thing at all.

I would surmise that, in most cases, people have no idea as to whether they are right in their assessment of other people's intentions, especially on an internet forum. I have an advantage in that I often am seeing both sides, whereas they are seeing only their own.
(12-31-2010, 01:38 AM)Shemaya Wrote:  Granted issues get clouded back and forth, sometimes it gets really muddy. That is why personal responsibility is so important.

But isn't this the heart of the STO path, to look in the mirror at ourselves, and discover how to BE our truest deep self which is love light and unity? So if we aren't willing to look at ourselves then what are we doing here?

Exactly!!!

And yet, what prompted this thread? What has been the focus of this thread? Complaints about other-selves.
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12-31-2010, 03:26 AM,
RE: I'm out of here.
We can, if we really want to, stop this discussion. We have learned lessons from it, and perhaps it is time to leave it.
It is sad that Ali chose to leave, but that does not mean that we have to keep discussing it, or what may have caused it.

Eventually, life has to go on.
We can do better, by doing better

By learning

You know what?
We can't help it.
We learn whether we like it or not.

Lets call it a night.

Just let it go

Just say, Love and Peace

and walk away


(12-31-2010, 01:47 AM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote:  
(12-31-2010, 01:28 AM)Aaron Wrote:  To Monica: in the event that there are two choices, choice 1 being to block the other member, and choice 2 being to invite disharmony, I would agree with you that choice 1 would be better. But I would only say that would be so if the person can't choose choice 3, to invite the other and himself into the open heart, taking a moment to collect himself fully there before moving on and speaking again.

Agreed! That is exactly what I was trying to convey.
(12-31-2010, 01:38 AM)Shemaya Wrote:  Another way of looking at this is maybe he sensed the energy, and you were unaware that you projected that energy. There are very few masters/adepts who are completely aware of all the energy that they radiate and project. We are doing well if we are aware of 51%, and choose to radiate love, according to Ra, but what about the other 49% of our words and actions and deeds? That might be completely unconscious, us just reacting, or living on autopilot.

I am saying that we aren't aware of our energy at times, so if we are unaware, how could we possibly have an intention of being what we are unaware of.

We may be responsible for projecting a certain "tone" and not be aware of our own "tone".

With something as nebulous as tone or energy, sure. But I am speaking of emotions and motivations, which we do usually consciously know. In this case, the person insisted that he could perceive anger in my words, and I know that I wasn't feeling any anger at that particular time.

I'm a Taurus. Taureans are known to not get angry very often. Taureans very, very rarely get angry, but when they do, they blow up!

So I am quite aware of when I am feeling angry and when I'm not. For me, anger is like a switch that suddenly turns on. As astrologer Linda Goodman said of Taureans (paraphrased) "The Bull can handle a lot of load on his broad back, but when it finally does reach too much, he snaps, and becomes a Raging Bull!"

I have found Linda's astrological assessment to be very accurate, in my own experiences with anger. I just don't get angry at things other people commonly get angry about. I just don't feel the least bit phased. But when I finally do get angry, it's intense!

I realize sometimes people might not even be aware of their emotions, or they might be in denial about them. But in my case, being a Taurus, my own anger isn't something I'm mistaken about. It would be like mistaking a bicycle for a speeding train!

That is just my own experience with this person.

In addition, I'll receive pm's from various members, expressing their feelings about other members. They might tell me how they are trying to get along with so-and-so and maybe are feeling frustrated, or hurt, or whatever. Maybe they genuinely like the other person.

Meanwhile, the other person is also pm'ing me, about the first member, and accuses the first member of intentionally trying to hurt them, or whatever.

In this case, neither person knows that I am seeing both sides. And I know that they are both wrong about the other. In nearly all cases, the mistake is due to erroneously perceiving the other person's tone and intentions, based on injecting their own distortion into typed words that intended no such thing at all.

I would surmise that, in most cases, people have no idea as to whether they are right in their assessment of other people's intentions, especially on an internet forum. I have an advantage in that I often am seeing both sides, whereas they are seeing only their own.
(12-31-2010, 01:38 AM)Shemaya Wrote:  Granted issues get clouded back and forth, sometimes it gets really muddy. That is why personal responsibility is so important.

But isn't this the heart of the STO path, to look in the mirror at ourselves, and discover how to BE our truest deep self which is love light and unity? So if we aren't willing to look at ourselves then what are we doing here?

Exactly!!!

And yet, what prompted this thread? What has been the focus of this thread? Complaints about other-selves.
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12-31-2010, 04:52 AM,
RE: I'm out of here. (Interpersonal Relationships on B4)
I hope/feel that you do come back after a breather.

While poetic/beautiful, the spoken language can be very linear/limiting. Werheas wtih tpealehty, the msesgae cvohsevie wtih itnent, can be sblmacerd, but the tohghuts/fleinegs/etmoinos/untsdireadng can be coumicamtend/oziergand in one sfwit mtoion/portcjeoin, wtih no asocetaisd lsos.

I personally battle being able to clearly speak my thoughts and it often takes concerted effort to organize/vocalize them, making me sound like an idiot who has no idea what he's talking about. When in reality, my thought-stream is realized instantly wherein I telepathically project it, but I have to play catch-up and verbalize it also. It's like being caught up in translation. Annoying!

Sorry, speaking in this style is intuitive/humorous. I thought we needed a laugh.
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12-31-2010, 05:17 AM,
RE: I'm out of here. (Interpersonal Relationships on B4)
(12-31-2010, 04:52 AM)Derek ~ Wrote:  I personally battle being able to clearly speak my thoughts and it often takes concerted effort to organize/vocalize them, making me sound like an idiot who has no idea what he's talking about. When in reality, my thought-stream is realized instantly wherein I telepathically project it, but I have to play catch-up and verbalize it also. It's like being caught up in translation. Annoying!

just start speaking your thoughts directly without thinking then, as they happen.
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12-31-2010, 10:12 AM, (This post was last modified: 12-31-2010, 10:22 AM by thefool.)
RE: I'm out of here.
(12-31-2010, 01:28 AM)Aaron Wrote:  Is it possible for bring4th to be a place that is fulfilling to all who have an high enough consciousness to find value in it? And can it safely support all methods of learning as they all come together in our quest for eventual harmony? In regards to your next post after the one I'm quoting now: I do think that it has gone that way in at least one or two threads.

I agree with what you express. Thanks !!!
I think that B4 can be a place for all types of high consciousness work. The love and respect for the fellow traveler would ensure that.
For me the choice is to become disinterested completely or become disinterested in some (without any judgment associated with it, it is just a preference to not get pulled into arguments). and Ignore feature can be helpful there. I have to see and try it out more...
Ali my friend!!! I have really enjoyed your posts and insights. You bring your own special perspective. I also enjoyed your love and support through different PMs... I wish you well and we will miss you...
(12-31-2010, 04:52 AM)Derek ~ Wrote:  I personally battle being able to clearly speak my thoughts and it often takes concerted effort to organize/vocalize them, making me sound like an idiot who has no idea what he's talking about. When in reality, my thought-stream is realized instantly wherein I telepathically project it, but I have to play catch-up and verbalize it also. It's like being caught up in translation. Annoying!

I too find language so annoying!!! I am always thinking why can't they read my mind and it would be so easy.
That is why a concise message is so important to me. A concise message is concentrated and projects telepathically. In a really long message the energy is just frittered away, i think...
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12-31-2010, 01:10 PM,
RE: I'm out of here. (Interpersonal Relationships on B4)
(12-31-2010, 05:17 AM)unity100 Wrote:  just start speaking your thoughts directly without thinking then, as they happen.

That will make for some interesting conversations.
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12-31-2010, 01:17 PM,
RE: I'm out of here. (Interpersonal Relationships on B4)
Monica--

Sorry about the misunderstanding. I signed off before I could read your response as there is a lag time when I am posting... I thank you for your appreciative comments. I am learning from this in ways that are empowering me to be more like myself. Your line of questioning was gentle and very empowering. Like when one speaks to a friend. I thank you for that loving energy. I Bless you with Love. Smile

________________________________________________________________________________​_________________________

Aaron and Deek:

The discussion concerning Trolling really triggered an angry response in me. I myself was surprised by how furious I felt. The very thought of Trolls just fills me with dread. It is an opportunity for me to examine why I felt angry. Negative feelings always come from the mind. The HEART is about Love/Unity/Oneness.

We all have wounds that from time to time come into play.

Aaron, Thank you for seeing the true nature of my response. I thank you.


________________________________________________________________________________​_________________________

On this note, Happy New Year to all! I for one hope to look around and see the luminousity of all of creation around me in greater frequency!

--fairyfarmgirl
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12-31-2010, 01:17 PM,
RE: I'm out of here.
(12-31-2010, 10:12 AM)thefool Wrote:  I too find language so annoying!!! I am always thinking why can't they read my mind and it would be so easy.
That is why a concise message is so important to me. A concise message is concentrated and projects telepathically. In a really long message the energy is just frittered away, i think...

Mhm, and you are caught up in editing the details.

Are any of you able to understand what newborns want when they're upset? The veil seems to be thin between us. Animals too, but not in that absurd psychic animal way where someone tells you your cat is depressed because she doesn't like when you go away for yoga on Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays..oh and by the way, to stop serving her that fish flavored Purina, it's nasty.
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12-31-2010, 02:13 PM,
RE: I'm out of here. (Interpersonal Relationships on B4)
(12-31-2010, 01:10 PM)Derek ~ Wrote:  
(12-31-2010, 05:17 AM)unity100 Wrote:  just start speaking your thoughts directly without thinking then, as they happen.

That will make for some interesting conversations.

it will cause a lot of mishaps, some discord with some people, surprising positive results with some others, and generally become a burden. but it will develop your blue, and eventually there will come a time in which you are able to effectually use it without having to suffer the blunt consequences.
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12-31-2010, 03:10 PM,
RE: I'm out of here. (Interpersonal Relationships on B4)
(12-31-2010, 02:13 PM)unity100 Wrote:  it will cause a lot of mishaps, some discord with some people, surprising positive results with some others, and generally become a burden. but it will develop your blue, and eventually there will come a time in which you are able to effectually use it without having to suffer the blunt consequences.

I'll try it. On another forum some of us use to fragment our thoughts or be vague leaving the others to fill in the blanks. It can be easier.
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12-31-2010, 03:39 PM,
RE: I'm out of here. (Interpersonal Relationships on B4)
(12-31-2010, 03:10 PM)Derek ~ Wrote:  I'll try it. On another forum some of us use to fragment our thoughts or be vague leaving the others to fill in the blanks. It can be easier.

blue is a ray that is free. it wants to flow. it wants no boundaries. its clear, its direct.

so its not hard or easy. its just letting out whatever comes up from within. then correct approach to blue ray usage would be to take its nature into account.
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12-31-2010, 04:47 PM,
RE: I'm out of here. (Interpersonal Relationships on B4)
(12-31-2010, 01:17 PM)fairyfarmgirl Wrote:  Monica--

Sorry about the misunderstanding. I signed off before I could read your response as there is a lag time when I am posting... I thank you for your appreciative comments. I am learning from this in ways that are empowering me to be more like myself. Your line of questioning was gentle and very empowering. Like when one speaks to a friend. I thank you for that loving energy. I Bless you with Love. Smile

Thank you Fairy! Heart

Blessings
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12-31-2010, 09:59 PM, (This post was last modified: 12-31-2010, 10:02 PM by xlsander.)
RE: I'm out of here. (Interpersonal Relationships on B4)
HeartHeartHeartHeartHeart

whatever we might fuss and have different opinions about when we're on the other side it'll all be Heart and if we get it now - fine - and if we dont - fine - as we're all Heart anyways and there just is no hurry for anything HeartHeartHeart
A
Heart check out our music - thank you!

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http://myspace.com/LAsoonmusic Heart
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