07-07-2011, 03:53 AM
(07-07-2011, 02:22 AM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote: How can slaughter be nonviolent?
With respect, gratitude, and a conscious effort to minimize or eliminate pain.
Bring4th_Monica Wrote:Respectfully, Tenet, you are mistaken on this point. The myth that vegetarians don't get enough protein was laid to rest decades ago. While it is true that vegans may be at risk for vitamin B12 deficiency, protein deficiencies are extremely rare.
I have seen plenty of meat eaters also that do not get enough protein. As far as I am aware, an active human body requires 1.0-1.5 grams of protein per kilogram body weight daily. If there is new info out there on this, I would like to see it!
But anyway, I am not advocating here for meat eating nor claiming that it is healthier to eat meat. What I was trying to get at is that the most important thing, from a health standpoint, is to get the proper nutrition. This can certainly be done with a vegetarian diet, but to say a vegetarian diet is automatically superior, simply because it lacks meat is also erroneous.
Bring4th_Monica Wrote:It has been conclusively proven that the more meat a person consumes, the higher his/her risk for all the major diseases: cancer, heart disease, diabetes, stroke, obesity, etc. For verification of this, read The China Study.
What, then, do vegetarians die of? Or do vegetarians all die peacefully in their sleep? I'm being a bit facetious, of course. I won't get into the whole China Study debate, but I'm pretty sure it didn't find low to moderate meat consumption to be significantly associated with higher disease rates. Correct me if I am wrong!
Quote:But then, so do many meat-eaters, so it's a moot point. Discussing the vegetarians who eat junk foods, is kind of irrelevant, being that meat-eaters do too.
Yeah. I almost took that paragraph out, but didn't. I guess the relevancy is getting back to the idea that vegetarianism is better simply because it is vegetarianism, and not because it is higher quality food. But it is mostly irrelevant to the main thrust of the post.
Quote:In my opinion, the only reason that theory holds any water is because of the person's consciousness. As the consciousness is raised, the body adapts.
There is a great deal of evidence to suggest different diets for different bodies. A breakthrough study not to long ago found that human beings fall into three distinct types, based on differences in gut bacteria, which affect (among other things) how food is processed. But I do agree consciousness is also a factor.
Quote:Yossarian didn't claim that those ideas were backed by scientific study.
You are right, he did not. But then those ideas are backed by... what then?
Quote:But, respectfully, apparently not well educated on the raw vegan diet. Which is understandable, being that it's a relatively new phenomenon. I invite you to become acquainted with the works of Dr. Gabriel Cousens. He's an MD and absolutely the most brilliant proponent of the raw vegan diet. However, he recommends a higher fat ratio than the 80-10-10. There are different schools of thought on the raw vegan diet. Dr. Cousens has the most clinical experience to back up his views.
I will check out that info as I am always open to new ideas. Though I will say your reply skirted around the issue that Yossarian's "healthiest possible human diet" can clearly be improved upon from a nutritional standpoint. Without having to add in meat, of course!
Quote:Those RDA amounts are all based on cooked foods, so those values are obsolete. Raw foods are absorbed so much better, that less is needed.
Mmmmm I will debate you on that one. I see a lot of people whose bodies do not produce enough digestive enzymes break down cooked food, much less raw food. And what is the evidence that makes the RDA values obsolete?
Quote:Check out these raw vegan bodybuilders:
Yeah, I have seen some of those guys. Obviously, they are doing something right! Again, nothing in my post was meant to insinuate that one must or should eat meat in order to be healthy..
Quote:I don't know anyone claiming that only fruits and veggies are enough. The diet must also include nuts and seeds.
I'm not talking about the experts here. I'm talking about your everyday people who decide on a whim to become vegetarian and think that an iceberg lettuce salad with two slices of cucumber and a cherry tomato is a good choice. You obviously have taken the time to educate yourself on the matter. Many people do not.
Quote:True, because we're not all at the same place in our evolution. However, the raw vegan diet, by all indications, seems congruent with what Ra has told us about the direction we're going in - towards a nonviolent 4D reality, an eventually consumption of only living nectar. As I said previously in this thread, no one is going to make the leap from hamburgers directly to living nectars. It's a process. Eliminating dead animals is the first logical step.
No argument here!
Quote:Tenet, after reading your excellent points about war, I am quite surprised by this. I view the slaughter of animals, in the same way you view war.
Don't really have a comment yet, but I wanted to acknowledge that I heard you.
Quote:Not trying to be sarcastic here! But just making a point. I agree with you 100% on war. I invite you to consider the incongruency, of viewing war as incompatible with the STO path, yet slaughtering animals is compatible and 'just an illusion'. How is animal cruelty an illusion, while cruelty to humans not an illusion? Why is war unacceptable, but supporting cruelty to our younger brethren, acceptable? Do you see the incongruency here?
Yes, I see the incongruency, and will ponder it.
Quote:Very true. We have more microbes in our bodies than we do cells. This is fact.
Right. About 90% of the cells found in or on the human body are bacterial cells. The body also devotes a large portion of its available energy to identifying which ones will be allowed to grow and which will be eliminated. So in a very fundamental way, life and death are inextricably linked. At least here in 3D. The body must take life in order to have life. People do not need to kill each other in order to live in peace.
Whew! I gotta get my bones to bed! But I will conclude for now with a quote from my own post:
Quote:The only real reasons for vegetarianism that hold water are:
1. Unwillingness to participate in a system which perpetuates cruelty to animals.
2. The claim that vegetarianism is healthier for the body.
So basically you and I agree on the reasons to be vegetarian. No?
Y'all jumped right past the first half of the post in which I was talking about philosophical arguments for vegetarianism based on an extreme ideal of harmlessness that is impossible to embody in the 3D world.