10-08-2011, 03:16 PM
(10-08-2011, 12:48 PM)zenmaster Wrote: That's why I come back to projection, because there is an attribution of these properties to these processes of development which simply do not exist. The implication of development is not one of separation, unless and until that is what we project onto it - which is continually occurring as the very objection in this discussion.Objection is entirely your projection. I am making the observation that the implication of development is not one of separation if and when we project wholeness unto it. (round and round and round we go)
(10-08-2011, 12:48 PM)zenmaster Wrote: The system itself is completely outside of such valuing or even implicated meaning. It's simply an observation.
The circle I see is also an observation.
(10-08-2011, 12:48 PM)zenmaster Wrote: "...each entity contains within it all of the densities and sub-densities of the octave so that in each entity, no matter whither its choices lead it, its great internal blueprint is one with all others. Thusly its experiences will fall into the patterns of the journey back to the original Logos. This is done through free will but the materials from which choices can be made are one blueprint."
Yet, "Each enters that sub-density which vibrates in accordance with the entity’s understanding."
"The nature of the vibratory range peculiar to each quantum of the octave is such that the characteristics of it may be described with the same certainty with which you perceive a color with your optical apparatus if it is functioning properly."
Such is the discernment of the developmental process which is observed, through honesty and self reflection.
"However, they were not able to be harvested either and so, beginning at the very highest, shall we say, of the sub-octaves of third density, repeated this density."
There are "vibrational" levels, or stages of development which resonate in accordance to a core acceptance which has been actualized.
"distortions" are balanced and reduced from more to less, in identifiable stages.
Ra is describing part of the process of individuation here:
"an adept is one which has freed itself more and more from the constraints of the thoughts, opinions, and bonds of other-selves."
"The more complex a being is, so our Scale of Complexity tells us, the more it is centered upon itself and therefore the more aware does it become. In other words, the higher the degree of complexity in a living creature, the higher its consciousness; and vice versa. The two properties vary in parallel and simultaneously. If we depict them in diagrammatic form, they are equivalent and interchangeable."
--Pierre Teilhard de Chardin, The Future of Man, p.111
"For its reflective and inventive forward spring it is in some sort necessary that Life, duplicating its evolutionary motive center, should henceforth be sustained by two centers of action, separate and conjoined, one of consciousness and the other of complexity.... In hominised evolution the Physical and the Psychic, the Without and the Within, Matter and Consciousness, are all found to be functionally linked in one tangible process."
--Pierre Teilhard de Chardin, The Future of Man, p.209
I think you may, possibly, be confusing the noble valuing judgements provided by an egalitarianism view with some perceived, inherent antithesis in the description of developmental stages.
Not really. I see all of the above as a system derived from the human mind within its archetypal structure which is impossible to step away from the circle I see.
(10-08-2011, 12:48 PM)zenmaster Wrote: Also what these 'vibrations' may or may not provide as far as access to certain aspects of the human condition is also being contrived as being indicative of some moral judgement or stance. Such is the imposition that you seem to be making. Since it, of course, has nothing to do with differences in values, and you continually impose these differences in values, I say that is "projection" - the attribution or depiction of something in a manner which is not inherently so.
I don't know about all that. I do know that the aspects are inescapable, and the idea of vibrations is created with the same form that they try to define which causes them to lack integrity as a definitive idea. Just when you think you've found it, it flip flops on you, ad infinitum.
(10-08-2011, 12:48 PM)zenmaster Wrote: The observation is one of the stage or condition itself, it is not about assigning value to how the actors on that stage may or may not treat others. This is the idea that you are continually "projecting".
No, I think you have perceived me wrong here. It is how one views self that I am projecting. Does the buck stop here for "you"? Does "your" theory apply to itself? ("you" in quotes means not you specifically)
(10-08-2011, 12:48 PM)zenmaster Wrote: It is not about marginalization, but about identification. And that identification is not about separation in the sense of distancing, but in the sense of discernment. As Ra aptly said, the "internal blueprint is one with all others".This is a misrepresentation of me. You say "truer" is my projection. What is "know more and more about the self"? My observation has nothing to do with my perceived moral evaluation. It's about how the idea that you can know more about yourself is just another idea formulated in the mind to find some sort of perceived value and meaning to one's chosen activity, and because we now find ourselves at the opposite point of the idea, flip flopped, we can see that it is another example [that the one] didn't know that. Then we proceed to create another idea that will indubitably fall short with another rotation of the circle.
"These desires become more and more distorted towards conscious application of love/light as the entity furnishes itself with distilled experience."\
"The one known as Franklin developed very quickly up through red, orange, yellow, and green and began to work in the blue ray energy center at a tender age, as you would say. This rapid growth was due, firstly, to previous achievements in the activation of the rays, secondly, to the relative comfort and leisure of its early existence, thirdly, due to the strong desire upon the part of the entity to progress."
It is possible to know more and more about the self, and therefore more and more about the condition of others. For some reason, you are continually imposing moral evaluations to such observations which are, indeed, unequivocally irrelevant to that growing ability to know. They are not bound to that development and never were. Moral behavior is simply another topic which you have taken this opportunity to introduce, for some reason.
(10-08-2011, 12:48 PM)zenmaster Wrote: Very simply, "The man with a neurosis who knows that he is neurotic is more individuated than the man without this consciousness... If a man is contradicted by himself and does not know it, he is an illusionist, but if he knows that he contradicts himself, he is individuated." - Jung
I know it. That's what I've been saying, Jung. That quote is a great example of the circle I see. After, "he is individuated", he finds himself right back at the start of the quote... until he dies. Round and round we go.