Power, Community, & why guidelines are important
02-22-2012, 01:02 PM, (This post was last modified: 02-22-2012, 01:27 PM by Diana.)
#1
Power, Community, & why guidelines are important
There seems to be quite a diversity of member personalities in the bring4th forums.

Without diversity there would be little catalyst, species would not evolve, and things would be very boring. Smile

Every individual sees through their own lens of perception, based on their own distortions. In this way we are necessarily self-centered until we have cleared our lenses. When looking through a rose-tinted glass, it is difficult or impossible to detect other certain colors. And so, there exists the possibility that we misunderstand each other because we are blinded by our own lenses, and cannot see things through the other's lens.

In addition, by virtue of just being here at bring4th, we are probably all to some degree "outside of the box," hence, authority may be an issue that has played out for many members since coming into the 3D Earth experience.

I would like to address:

1. Power

2. Community

Power:
Unconscious or conscious beliefs about authority are part of the lens coloring of an individual. Authority outside of one's self is an illusion. One give's one's power away by thinking authority is victimizing anyone. Instead, one may take the power back and make conscious choices based on the knowledge that no entity can make another do anything--there must be some degree of allowance on the receiving end.

Community:
Because of the full range of diversity, which includes perceiving and expressing in diametrically opposed ways as well as subtly different ways, a general consensus of guidelines to interact is very helpful. Otherwise, because of our varying lenses, even though intent is meant well, another who has a different lens will be unable to perceive that well meant intent. We are not to the point in our evolution where we can easily read minds.

So, in a community such as bring4th, there are guidelines. The guidelines exist not only to maintain the standard set by the intentions of the creators of the site, but help facilitate communication amongst diverse individuals who may otherwise misunderstand each other and react.

We all have lessons, challenges, difficulties. For one individual, focusing is difficult. For another individual, being spontaneous is a challenge. I suggest not labeling these challenges with words that define them, rather, do the best you can at all times, take responsibility, keep moving forward and evolution will happen.

In the meantime, as we evolve ourselves and continue down our chosen paths, the guidelines on this site optimize our experience within this community.

I welcome any other thoughts and perceptions on this subject. Smile
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02-22-2012, 01:30 PM,
#2
RE: Power, Community, & why guidelines are important
i don't see authority as victimizing me. i see it as annoying and insulting me. and something to be squashed. i am an indigo. that's my job, always has been. that doesn't mean i don't respect the mods. i read the guidelines out of respect. i try to act accordingly. but authority, itself is not natural.

Diana, lets just go to a bar and forget it. i don't see them two ever getting along.
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02-22-2012, 02:22 PM, (This post was last modified: 02-22-2012, 02:23 PM by norral.)
#3
RE: Power, Community, & why guidelines are important
my own personal take Diana is that we have to be respectful. without that we degenerate into hurt feelings . so we all have a problem with that. i think of times when i have been disrespectful, and im not talking years ago i am talking recently. it happens all the time. so i want to slow down before i say anything and look at it from the point of view, if i was the one receiving this remark how would i like it. also the other point is we are in, as u point out , a very diverse community. i grew up in nyc in a very diverse neighborhood very involved in the black culture and issues. most people on the board here didnt. my experience is not better or worse it's just unique. now i have to filter my comments thru the lens of what makes perfect sense to me might be offensive to someone living in louisville kentucky. i can still say it but i think more important than making a comment is preserving the good vibe in the neighborhood so to speak. if i have something to say that doesnt fit here i can use facebook. that is not going to freak anybody out . i guess im saying the vibe of the community is more important to me than any point i can make . i am not really looking to get anybody aggravated, this life on this planet can get aggravating enuf without me adding to peoples aggravation. so right now i am extra careful about what i post and how i word it. i dont want anybody pissed off because of what i may have said.


norral Heart
Heart THE REVOLUTION HAS STARTED Heart
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02-22-2012, 02:52 PM, (This post was last modified: 02-22-2012, 02:54 PM by Diana.)
#4
RE: Power, Community, & why guidelines are important
(02-22-2012, 01:30 PM)Oceania Wrote:  i don't see authority as victimizing me. i see it as annoying and insulting me. and something to be squashed. i am an indigo. that's my job, always has been. that doesn't mean i don't respect the mods. i read the guidelines out of respect. i try to act accordingly. but authority, itself is not natural.

I get that. I spent almost my whole life being rebellious against anyone/anything telling me what to do, think, or feel (religions, governments, bosses, the IRS, anybody/anything). The problem with that is one is rebellious for rebelliousness' sake, not because one discerns. I am not saying you do this. I am saying I did.

I finally realized what I was doing--playing a role. It doesn't mean that I am not rebellious anymore when it is warranted, but I do not succumb to the role just because I identify with it.
(02-22-2012, 02:22 PM)norral Wrote:  my own personal take Diana is that we have to be respectful. without that we degenerate into hurt feelings . so we all have a problem with that. i think of times when i have been disrespectful, and im not talking years ago i am talking recently. it happens all the time. so i want to slow down before i say anything and look at it from the point of view, if i was the one receiving this remark how would i like it. also the other point is we are in, as u point out , a very diverse community. i grew up in nyc in a very diverse neighborhood very involved in the black culture and issues. most people on the board here didnt. my experience is not better or worse it's just unique. now i have to filter my comments thru the lens of what makes perfect sense to me might be offensive to someone living in louisville kentucky. i can still say it but i think more important than making a comment is preserving the good vibe in the neighborhood so to speak. if i have something to say that doesnt fit here i can use facebook. that is not going to freak anybody out . i guess im saying the vibe of the community is more important to me than any point i can make . i am not really looking to get anybody aggravated, this life on this planet can get aggravating enuf without me adding to peoples aggravation. so right now i am extra careful about what i post and how i word it. i dont want anybody pissed off because of what i may have said.


norral Heart

As always, Norral, your words are thoughtful and loving.

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02-22-2012, 03:08 PM,
#5
RE: Power, Community, & why guidelines are important
Role reversal provides good reflection.

Guidelines are good for Building a skyscraper, operating machinery, planting a garden, or cooking dinner.

They are useless when regulating behavior because 50% of a group can find value and kindness where the other 50% can only see recklessness.

Norral, I know you know, there is no way to know how another will take something written. Unless it is "you are an idiot" or the like.
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02-22-2012, 03:10 PM,
#6
RE: Power, Community, & why guidelines are important
Diana don't assume i am playing a role.
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02-22-2012, 03:14 PM,
#7
RE: Power, Community, & why guidelines are important
(02-22-2012, 01:30 PM)Oceania Wrote:  i don't see authority as victimizing me. i see it as annoying and insulting me. and something to be squashed. i am an indigo. that's my job, always has been. that doesn't mean i don't respect the mods. i read the guidelines out of respect. i try to act accordingly. but authority, itself is not natural.

I have a position of authority at my workplace. I normally let the others do what they feel like. What I find interesting is how angry they get when I actually do my job and tell them how to do something.

Right now they are walking a fine line on their quota. They basically never make quota since they have been "doing things their way". On top of that I get constant complaints and whining from them because of how things are running.

I excel at efficiency, and creating more efficient modes of operation. In my last three jobs I have made changes to procedure that have saved the companies hundreds of thousands of dollars a year, simply through efficiency.

What I am allowing currently is for the other employees to come to an understanding (on their own) that the reason they now hate their job and the incredible amount of effort they put out is because they are "doing it their way".

---------------
There is good reason for authority.

Without it, the majority are lost.

In fact, to make a point...............I invite any one of the unhappy members to create a forum and and run it exactly how they want to. Will this be easy?

Without the knowledge, without the experience, without the wisdom, without the like minds that came together to create,............I highly doubt you will get far.
one who knows not, cares not.
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02-22-2012, 03:16 PM,
#8
RE: Power, Community, & why guidelines are important
i'm not saying it's not good to have a structure. i'm saying i don't respect authority if it's not earned. and i never ever let it sway me as a person.
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02-22-2012, 03:22 PM,
#9
RE: Power, Community, & why guidelines are important
Pickle, how do you earn respect from your crew?
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02-22-2012, 03:39 PM,
#10
RE: Power, Community, & why guidelines are important
I don't try to. I focus on automation and try my best to let the others do what they want or what they feel comfortable with.

In reality I do not gain their respect by doing so. I have personality issues that get in the way of my being an "enforcer" like what is expected. I don't feel I need to constantly tell a person what they need to do as if they are a child. After the third time I have to explain something, each time as if it was the first time all over again, I chalk it up to comprehension issues and move on.

They do regularly ask why everything runs so well if I am in the area. Even leaving for break things seem to go to hell. If they would only pay attention when I am there instead of just taking everything for granted they would do a lot better.

It almost seems as though people just float along instead of working with their environment. Then they get angry if anything disturbs their "view" of things.

I would get respect if I enforced rules, but by allowing them free reign to control themself I do not earn respect.
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02-22-2012, 03:39 PM,
#11
RE: Power, Community, & why guidelines are important
This is guideline number one.

"1) Respect. Compassion. Loving-kindness. Empathy. Trust. Goodwill. Desire to serve. Embracing each other. Opening our heart. Participants are asked to keep the thought in the forefront of their minds at all times that each on this forum IS the Creator. Please keep communication respectful at all times and in all ways. The participant may disagree to the bone with an idea without personally attacking the author of the idea. Please remember that we are all here to expand our knowledge, deepen our understanding, and support one another by reflecting our divinity to each other. We are One being -- we are not here to forget the real. "


Challenging individuals and then exclaiming they can't achieve something. And a moderator "liked" this.

This is why I don't understand my reception.
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02-22-2012, 03:50 PM,
#12
RE: Power, Community, & why guidelines are important
(02-22-2012, 03:39 PM)3DMonkey Wrote:  Challenging individuals and then exclaiming they can't achieve something. And a moderator "liked" this.

This is why I don't understand my reception.

What is this in reference to? The first guideline? I'm not sure what you mean.
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02-22-2012, 03:52 PM,
#13
RE: Power, Community, & why guidelines are important
"In fact, to make a point...............I invite any one of the unhappy members to create a forum and and run it exactly how they want to. Will this be easy?

Without the knowledge, without the experience, without the wisdom, without the like minds that came together to create,............I highly doubt you will get far."
Also, assuming an other is "like I was before I grew past that" is not in accordance with guideline 1 either
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02-22-2012, 03:55 PM,
#14
RE: Power, Community, & why guidelines are important
See what I mean? You act as if you want to be a mod, but won't even consider applying yourself to creating anything, just continue attacking what is already in place, what is already created, that you are "not happy" with.

I will restate it..............go and create something, a web page, a forum, anything at all, and try to "operate" it.
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02-22-2012, 03:58 PM,
#15
RE: Power, Community, & why guidelines are important
(02-22-2012, 03:14 PM)Pickle Wrote:  In fact, to make a point...............I invite any one of the unhappy members to create a forum and and run it exactly how they want to. Will this be easy?

Hahahaha sorry I can't stop laughing! Big Grin

You know, Pickle, I really love how you state the obvious, in such a direct, yet non-confrontational way. You just said what I have thought so many times, when people told me I 'should' do this or that...I thought, "OK, this is coming from someone who isn't down in the trenches doing what I do." So easy to say, not so easy to actually do.

As the saying goes, one's perspective sure can change when they walk a mile in another's shoes.

Anyone can start a public forum and run it as they see fit. If they want a forum with zero rules, then hey, I'd love to see it happen! Let us know, and we'll check it out.

No sarcasm here. I'm totally serious. We could have a sister forum, with no rules. It could be a grand experiment!
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02-22-2012, 03:58 PM,
#16
RE: Power, Community, & why guidelines are important
This is something I see in fundamentalist forums. A lot of accusations and conspiracies to attack people in history that "created" a lasting impression on the world. Just tearing down what someone else created. I never see any take the helm and create anything they would be happier with.
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02-22-2012, 04:01 PM, (This post was last modified: 02-22-2012, 04:15 PM by Diana.)
#17
RE: Power, Community, & why guidelines are important
(02-22-2012, 03:52 PM)3DMonkey Wrote:  "In fact, to make a point...............I invite any one of the unhappy members to create a forum and and run it exactly how they want to. Will this be easy?

Without the knowledge, without the experience, without the wisdom, without the like minds that came together to create,............I highly doubt you will get far."

Okay. But Monkey, why was this offensive to you? Did you consider what was said, or did you just take offense without consideration? I think they are good things to consider here.

I have worked for myself for many years, and I know how much it takes to do so. Others that haven't done it romanticize it. The reality is that I work harder and more hours than any job I had previous to working for myself.

My point is, in my opinion, Pickle's challenge was not a poke at you or anyone else, but a call to consider what it would really take to create and maintain a website such as this. It's not just a romanticized notion, and poof, you have your website. It is a tremendous amount of work, expense, dedication, time, and deep understanding of your intentions.
(02-22-2012, 03:52 PM)3DMonkey Wrote:  Also, assuming an other is "like I was before I grew past that" is not in accordance with guideline 1 either

I did not make that assumption, which apparently both Oceania and you took as such. I said that's what I did. This was meant as a consideration and example that things are not just one-dimensional, and that we might question ourselves and especially our rigid adherence to beliefs.

I apologize for sounding "superior" or more advanced, as it was not at all meant that way. I see us all as equal, along with every other thing in existence.
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02-22-2012, 04:11 PM,
#18
RE: Power, Community, & why guidelines are important
First off, you are proving to me that guidelines are useless.

Second, you are assuming I took personal offense.

Finally, his comment clearly does not follow guideline 1, but it doesn't matter because a moderator liked it. Therefore guidelines are for not. Just please the boss. Pickle has admitted that this is what I should be doing also. I feel gross doing that, personally.
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02-22-2012, 04:11 PM,
#19
RE: Power, Community, & why guidelines are important
is it mercury retrograde?
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02-22-2012, 04:15 PM,
#20
RE: Power, Community, & why guidelines are important
(02-22-2012, 03:58 PM)Pickle Wrote:  This is something I see in fundamentalist forums. A lot of accusations and conspiracies to attack people in history that "created" a lasting impression on the world. Just tearing down what someone else created. I never see any take the helm and create anything they would be happier with.

I see a lot of people in the forum world who enjoy instigating controversy for their own amusement.
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02-22-2012, 04:45 PM,
#21
RE: Power, Community, & why guidelines are important
(02-22-2012, 04:11 PM)3DMonkey Wrote:  First off, you are proving to me that guidelines are useless.

How so? I am genuinely interested.

(02-22-2012, 04:11 PM)3DMonkey Wrote:  Second, you are assuming I took personal offense.

Okay, I apologize for the misinterpretation. My question would then be: Do you see any merit in the consideration of what it would actually take to create and maintain a site such as bring4th?

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02-22-2012, 05:03 PM,
#22
RE: Power, Community, & why guidelines are important
I think the main issue is that there IS a power structure. No problems with that.

but there is ALSO a sense that some individuals are being patronised, and not being treated as equal beings.

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02-22-2012, 05:05 PM,
#23
RE: Power, Community, & why guidelines are important
I thought I explained in my original post. There is not a descriptive word in guideline 1 that I would use to describe 85% of Pickle's posts.
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02-22-2012, 05:54 PM,
#24
RE: Power, Community, & why guidelines are important
(02-22-2012, 05:03 PM)plenum Wrote:  I think the main issue is that there IS a power structure. No problems with that.

It is power if one sees it that way, if one gives their power away. As for me, I am in control of me. I make my own choices. I am here by choice. By coming here, because it is someone else's creation, I agree to the terms set by that someone else (shall we say, Carla, as this site flows from her). If I find that I am in conflict with the terms, I am not subject to someone else's power to manipulate me, I make a choice to work out the conflict, leave the site, feel offended, pout (which I have been known to do on occasion), or any thing else.

(02-22-2012, 05:03 PM)plenum Wrote:  but there is ALSO a sense that some individuals are being patronised, and not being treated as equal beings.

Could you be more specific or elaborate? Your statement is too amorphous to respond to without knowing a little more. Perhaps you could construct an imaginary example so that you don't use member's names.


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02-22-2012, 06:06 PM,
#25
RE: Power, Community, & why guidelines are important
(02-22-2012, 05:54 PM)Diana Wrote:  
(02-22-2012, 05:03 PM)plenum Wrote:  but there is ALSO a sense that some individuals are being patronised, and not being treated as equal beings.

Could you be more specific or elaborate? Your statement is too amorphous to respond to without knowing a little more. Perhaps you could construct an imaginary example so that you don't use member's names.

<tongue in cheek>

Ra: I am Ra. Clues, we may offer. Explanation is infringement. We can only ask that you realize that all are One.

TongueTongue
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02-22-2012, 06:17 PM,
#26
RE: Power, Community, & why guidelines are important
(02-22-2012, 06:06 PM)plenum Wrote:  <tongue in cheek>

Ra: I am Ra. Clues, we may offer. Explanation is infringement. We can only ask that you realize that all are One.

TongueTongue

My dear Plenum, is your answer that you can't explain further? That's fine if you don't want to. But I think this is part of the problem--individuals not being clear about what they mean. Just my opinion.

Perhaps I'm just dense. But I thought it would be easier for you to explain rather than me try to figure it out.

I'll accept your "clue" if that is as far as you want to go. Smile
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02-22-2012, 06:32 PM,
#27
RE: Power, Community, & why guidelines are important
(02-22-2012, 06:17 PM)Diana Wrote:  
(02-22-2012, 06:06 PM)plenum Wrote:  <tongue in cheek>

Ra: I am Ra. Clues, we may offer. Explanation is infringement. We can only ask that you realize that all are One.

TongueTongue

My dear Plenum, is your answer that you can't explain further? That's fine if you don't want to. But I think this is part of the problem--individuals not being clear about what they mean. Just my opinion.

Perhaps I'm just dense. But I thought it would be easier for you to explain rather than me try to figure it out.

I'll accept your "clue" if that is as far as you want to go. Smile

let us say that there is a certain 'emotional insensitivity' going on, and that others might have 'hinted' that YOU yourself may be party to that. (I personally don't have an issue, if that is the follow up question.)

those are the 'hints' that I have already seen in previous threads. I won't point out which, but I am sure you would have read them as you were directly involved.

now, there are 'others' that may be more emotionally sensitive than you, and that is just their way of being.

but I know from personal experience being an INTJ (and I know that you are one too) that we are prone to seeing everything as blocks and pieces, and not acknowledging the human beings behind every word, gesture, or slight hint. This is how others communicate (different personality types) and they are not as 'direct' or 'clear' as we would like.

I offer this as love/light, and is only a mirror.

you are an outstanding and self-actuated person. You weigh things carefully before making things public. You have honest intentions. There is much that I admire about you. You have my respect Diana.

plenum
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02-22-2012, 06:34 PM,
#28
RE: Power, Community, & why guidelines are important
(02-22-2012, 03:22 PM)3DMonkey Wrote:  Pickle, how do you earn respect from your crew?

I would like to chime in here, even though this question was not directed to me, as I think that it may (or may not Tongue) contribute to this thread.

I hold a senior position at my work. There are rules and laws that need to be followed. Besides them, there are what could be called "guidelines" perhaps, from both our government and my boss to be followed. I am a person who, when I am at work, is responsible to follow all these rules, laws and guidelines, and make sure that even my co-workers follow them. Which means that if something happens, it is my responsibility, and not my co-workers. I can be thrown in jail, in the worst case scenario.

So how do I solve when "everybody wants to do it their way"? They are free to do their job as they find it appropriate, when I am in charge. I am challenged a lot, because, when not knowing completely everything that I know and the job that needs to be done, people lack the understanding. I get looks and questions, and comments, of not so appropriate, and sometimes, even unfriendly, nature. How do I handle it?

By explaining why it has to be done in this way, and not their way (when this incindents happen). Then I listen. Genuinely listen! I am trying to put myself in their shoes, as I know that they can not be in mine. But I have been in theirs.

That's the key to be a leader, if that is your lot in this life.

(Of course, when there is a medical emergency I do not do this - but give orders, without people questioning me while it is happening, and they know it. They can question me later, or ask for explanations why I did that and not this, but not when someone's life is in danger.)
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02-22-2012, 06:48 PM,
#29
RE: Power, Community, & why guidelines are important
Managers are not authorities. A manager has the job of organizing the flow. That's their job. It's not authority over persons. It's just their role. You and Pickle sound like good managers from what you've said. One's job is to insert an IV. Another's job is to collect how many IVs have been inserted and inform of when IVs should be inserted. I don't see any of these examples as examples of authority.

Of course, I've been a manager too, but I am an excellent employee as well. Let me tell ya, the best managers view themselves as working for the group.
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02-22-2012, 06:51 PM,
#30
RE: Power, Community, & why guidelines are important
(02-22-2012, 06:32 PM)plenum Wrote:  let us say that there is a certain 'emotional insensitivity' going on, and that others might have 'hinted' that YOU yourself may be party to that. (I personally don't have an issue, if that is the follow up question.)

those are the 'hints' that I have already seen in previous threads. I won't point out which, but I am sure you would have read them as you were directly involved.

now, there are 'others' that may be more emotionally sensitive than you, and that is just their way of being.

but I know from personal experience being an INTJ (and I know that you are one too) that we are prone to seeing everything as blocks and pieces, and not acknowledging the human beings behind every word, gesture, or slight hint. This is how others communicate (different personality types) and they are not as 'direct' or 'clear' as we would like.

I offer this as love/light, and is only a mirror.

you are an outstanding and self-actuated person. You weigh things carefully before making things public. You have honest intentions. There is much that I admire about you. You have my respect Diana.

plenum

Okay. That all makes sense. I certainly can see that I am not as sensitive as others.

Then, do you have a suggestion how more sensitive types could be communicated with from my less sensitive point of view? Do you feel that is it my responsibility only (as being less sensitive) to communicate in a compassionate manner with more sensitive individuals (which I do try to do), but they are not required to make an effort to understand me? I feel that over and over and over again, my questions are ignored or misunderstood. I am not complaining though, I just go with the flow. And I am not pointing the finger, I am thinking that perhaps I'm missing some great point here.

And further, do you feel that more sensitive types get a waiver from accountability because they are more sensitive?

Forgive me if I sound unloving or perhaps robotic. My distortion runs very much to intellectual.
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