The Choice
04-09-2012, 07:36 AM,
#31
RE: The Choice
uniphi, you might consider posting that bit about "forged in the fire" in the "Random Archetype Insights" thread, so it can be subject for further discussion. Here, discussion would be off-topic.
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04-09-2012, 09:24 AM,
#32
RE: The Choice
I see the 0/22 card depicting a survivor having no choice which way to go. The world he had known is in ruins and he is escaping carnage to return to the nature from whence all comes. He cannot go back at this point. This is what Ra meant by there not being a choice.
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04-09-2012, 04:49 PM, (This post was last modified: 04-09-2012, 04:54 PM by uniphi.)
#33
RE: The Choice
Yes, sorry about that, new to the forum arena, & thought i was responding directly to post #9 & in hindsight saw would appear a bit random! Blessings.
Has the image underneath him been discussed? thanks

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04-09-2012, 04:59 PM,
#34
RE: The Choice
(04-09-2012, 04:49 PM)uniphi Wrote:  Yes, sorry about that, new to the forum arena, & thought i was responding directly to post #9 & in hindsight saw would appear a bit random! Blessings.
Has the image underneath him been discussed? thanks

No problems, brother. And welcome to the forum! Great to have you here!

What image do you mean?
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04-09-2012, 05:22 PM,
#35
RE: The Choice
Thank you.. some of the cards show an 'underworld'(subconscious?), beneath the earth/feet. In this case, 22, it is most pronounced. Again looks like a balancing. Is it more crocodiles, merged? (there are eyes & tails). Appreciate any insight, coz i may be a little blind here! Bless.

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04-09-2012, 08:12 PM,
#36
RE: The Choice
uniphi, I covered the crocs at the bottom in my post. Summary: In Egyptian culture, the crocodile was a hungry beast, ready to eat anything thrown its way. In the test of the soul in Egyptian mythology, a heart that weighs more than Maat's feather is thrown to the hungry croc. My interpretation is that whichever way one chooses, something must still be sacrificed, thrown to the crocodile.

Also, no need to worry. I knew you were responding to a Ra quotation which refers to the Choice. I think that further discussion would be appropriate since this is not a connection I've ever seen made before (thanks for that!), but since this thread is not about Archetype 14, the discussion will have to occur elsewhere.

Some of the landscapes at the bottom of the cards seem to depict seasons, For what it's worth.
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Bring4th_Plenum
04-09-2012, 08:32 PM,
#37
RE: The Choice
Thank you !! Appreciate your work & will dedicate some time to appropriate systematic approach of this exciting site/forum!
So... is that what the image at bottom of card represent as well (as the croc @ left-hand path), crocs and sacrifice? then resurrection...

Link to eclipse image... inspiring that as a "partner" to The Choice we have Significator of the Spirit/ SUN in this journey

"Some of the landscapes at the bottom of the cards seem to depict seasons, For what it's worth."


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04-27-2012, 01:38 PM,
#38
RE: The Choice
I thought it might be interesting to highlight this particular aspect of the Choice card:

Quote:89.26 Questioner: All right; I’ll have to do that. Ra stated that a major breakthrough was made when proper emphasis was put on Arcanum Twenty-Two. This didn’t happen until Ra had completed third density. I assume from this that Ra, being polarized positively, probably had some of the same difficulty that occurred prior to the veil in that the negative polarity was not appreciated. That’s a guess. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. In one way it is precisely correct. Our harvest was overwhelmingly positive and our appreciation of those which were negative was relatively uninformed. However, we were intending to suggest that in the use of the system known to you as the tarot for advancing the spiritual evolution of the self a proper understanding, if we may use this misnomer, of Archetype Twenty-Two is greatly helpful in sharpening the basic view of the Significator of Mind, Body, and Spirit and, further, throws into starker relief the Transformation and Great Way of Mind, Body, and Spirit complexes.

so basically, let us apply to Choice to the Significators:

Significator of the Mind: Hierophant
Significator of the Body: Hanged Man
Significator of the Spirit: SUN

applying the Choice here is "greatly helpful in sharpening the basic view"

for the Hierophant, teach/learning can be used to liberate (knowledge that reveals the Creator in each of us), or can be used negatively, to control and hide information that may be useful to us.

for the Hanged Man, the discipline of the body can be one that treats the body kindly, and accepts it, works with it, or it can be negative in that one controls the bodily functions, and abuses others' bodies.

for the Sun, this represents the way one uses spiritual light. For positive this is reflection and sharing of light, for the negative, this is absorption of others' light.

by contrasting the two paths, one is not trying to denigrate the one or the other, but it can actually serve the purpose of revealing more detail about each. Much like increasingly the "contrast level" of a black and white picture. The goal is greater understanding and acceptance of Unity.
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05-23-2012, 09:09 PM, (This post was last modified: 05-24-2012, 03:03 PM by Tenet Nosce.)
#39
RE: The Choice
[Image: attachment.php?aid=910]

"The Choice" is not between this or that, us or them, black or white, good or bad, right or wrong, STS or STO, or any other dualistic construction. The Choice is whether to consciously grow beyond that dualistic scaffolding which is provided for by nature. This is why Ra advised the card be placed at the end of the sequence, rather than the beginning.

I submit: The 21 Archetypes of the Tarot represent those forces of nature which unconsciously shape our experience. Like waves crashing upon the shore, they are swift, they are powerful, and they are relentless. But they are also distortions, and thus "not in any case necessary."

Even the most pig-headed, doltish, closed-hearted "Fool" will evolve to some small degree during the course of an incarnation, based upon the deterministic effects of the archetypes upon their consciousness. There is no such thing as devolution, or even standing still. In this, there is no Choice; there is no true "free will" as one may only select from a pre-programmed set of experiences, as in a role-playing game. And just like in an RPG, the more imbalanced one's character becomes, the harder it will be to progress in the game without taking steps to bring that character back into balance.

Within the rules of the game, one may decide to go chop wood, or sell potions, or fight dragons, or heal their comrades in battle. But one may not seek new forms of life, or invent their own magic spells, or become a dragon and burn down a whole village, or slay their own comrades in battle. The decision is limited to whatever the programmers elected to write into the code, and in the end, it is all just a bunch of zeroes and ones electronically encoded on a memory device. (You didn't really think it made you "better than" another player by casting yourself as a Druid Healer instead of a Dread Mage, did you? Wink)

If one goes to the ice cream store, and is presented with two options- chocolate or vanilla- is there really a Choice? Or merely a decision? What if one would prefer strawberry? Or to invent a new flavor altogether? And is it really all that impressive of an accomplishment if one decides ahead of time that they will always take the vanilla option over the chocolate? That sounds to me like taking what little choice there was in the matter, and reducing it down to zero. Is that really the point of incarnation? To become utterly predictable in one's behavior? And how, exactly, does making the same decision over and over again bring one into balance, anyway? Huh

[Image: tarot22.jpg]

INTERPRETATION: In order to acquire Choice, one must look beyond the outer appearances of duality (sun and moon), take up the burden of one's own balancing, and face the dragon (Dweller on the Threshold), thus freeing oneself from the need to incarnate within an archetypal field generated by a Logos.

(HINT: Why is this man and the world in which he lives, moves, and has his being, depicted as being inside a picture frame?)
We are unsure as to our success in realigning your modes of mentation.
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05-23-2012, 09:16 PM,
#40
RE: The Choice
How do we know if we've acquired the Choice archetype? If our life is filled with mad spiritual changes all of a sudden, is that an indicator?

Interesting that we can go beyond the basic 21 archetypes laid out by the Logos. Must we understand the archetypes to go beyond them?

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05-24-2012, 10:34 AM,
#41
RE: The Choice
(05-23-2012, 09:09 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote:  
[Image: attachment.php?aid=910]

"The Choice" is not between this or that, us or them, black or white, good or bad, right or wrong, STS or STO, or any other dualistic construction. The Choice is whether to consciously grow beyond that dualistic scaffolding which is provided for by nature. This is why Ra advised the card be placed at the end of the sequence, rather than the beginning.

I submit: The 21 Archetypes of the Tarot represent those forces of nature which unconsciously shape our experience. Like waves crashing upon the shore, they are swift, they are powerful, and they are relentless. But they are also distortions, and thus "not in any case necessary."

Even the most pig-headed, doltish, closed-hearted "Fool" will evolve to some small degree during the course of an incarnation, based upon the deterministic effects of the archetypes upon their consciousness. There is no such thing as devolution, or even standing still. In this, there is no Choice; there is no true "free will" as one may only "choose" from a pre-programmed set of experiences, as in a role-playing game. Within the rules of the game, one may choose to go chop wood, or sell potions, or fight dragons, or heal their comrades in battle. But one may not seek new forms of life, or invent their own magic spells, or become a dragon and burn down a whole village, or slay their own comrades in battle. The choice is limited to whatever the programmers decided to write into the code, and in the end, it is all just a bunch of zeroes and ones electronically encoded on a memory device. (You didn't really think it made you "better than" another player by choosing to be a Druid Healer over a Dread Mage, did you? Wink)

If one goes to the ice cream store, and is presented with two options- chocolate or vanilla- is there really a Choice? What if one would prefer strawberry? Or to invent a new flavor altogether? And is it really all that impressive of an accomplishment if one decides ahead of time that they will always take the vanilla option over the chocolate? That sounds to me like taking what little choice there was in the matter, and reducing it down to zero. Is that really the point of incarnation? To become utterly predictable in one's behavior?

[Image: tarot22.jpg]

INTERPRETATION: In order to acquire Choice, one must look beyond the outer appearances of duality (sun and moon), and take up the burden of one's own balancing, thus freeing oneself from the need to incarnate within an archetypal field generated by a Logos.

(HINT: Why is this man and the world in which he lives, moves, and has his being, depicted as being inside a picture frame?)



Because if the card didn't have any edges it wouldn't fit on the table top?

I'll have to pass on the last question TN.

But with regard to your comparing duality to choosing between ice cream flavors I am probably going to get in trouble with the mods again because I am supposed to try to keep my thoughts on this in that one thread they had me start called eyes of a stranger in life on planet earth. If you want to get further into it we do it there.

but in brief and I hope they allow this, i think there is a problem with how you interpret duality as being a choice.

I see duality as the natural state of the universe and unaffected by our choices. You are right that the burden of balance is on our shoulders which is exactly what the picture represents.

I am a little confused by your suggestion that having only black and white to choose from somehow decreases the glory of creation. I might be wrong but it seems as though you are implying that there is no right or wrong choice, and then in the same breath pointing out that choice involves much more than simply picking one of two options.

There just seems to be a little confusion on your grounding. Can you elaborate a little further?

I am curious about your definition of duality, and then how that constitutes the basis of your thoughts on choice.



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05-24-2012, 12:50 PM,
#42
RE: The Choice
it symbolizes the box thinking that plagues most people. Tongue
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05-24-2012, 12:57 PM,
#43
RE: The Choice
Tenet, if I could like your post 1000000000 times, I would.
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05-24-2012, 02:52 PM,
#44
RE: The Choice
(05-24-2012, 12:57 PM)ahktu Wrote:  Tenet, if I could like your post 1000000000 times, I would.

I would be fine with that, so long as your intention was not to be divisive or to ostracize anybody! Big Grin

Also, never would have been able to speak with that level of clarity without your help. Wink So thanks!

We are unsure as to our success in realigning your modes of mentation.
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05-24-2012, 08:18 PM,
#45
RE: The Choice
Tenet, I welcome you to enjoy your belief system in whatever mode you prefer; however, since this is a sub-forum of Strictly Law of One, I will attempt to respond to you from the perspective of the Ra Material.

28.20:
Ra Wrote:within the, shall we say, guidelines or ways of the Logos, the sub-Logos may find various means of differentiating experiences without removing or adding to these ways.

The sub-Logos neither adds nor removes from that realm which the Logos has established for the sub-Logos to have experience. Rather, within these guidelines, the sub-Logos may carve out an experience which is yet capable of infinite diversity. Consider, for example, a block of wood. There are infinite possibilities within the block of wood for the imaginative wood-carver; however, all of these possibilities are confined to this one block of wood. I may offer you a block of wood and tell you that you have the choice to make it into whatever you like, but if you respond that you want marble instead, I will have to remind you that all I offer is the block of wood. Make a beautiful carving and then you may graduate to the marble.

91.38:
Ra Wrote:The archetypical mind, when penetrated lucidly, is a blueprint of the builded structure of all energy expenditures and all seeking, without distortion.

If the Archetypical Mind is the blueprint which depicts the structure of ALL energy expenditures and seeking, it is clear that the 3D environment has been given a definite set of limitations beyond which the 3D m/b/s complex cannot proceed. There are no extra alternatives, no other choices, no secret truth which will teleport the 3D seeker to a realm of non-duality. The mindful seeker will eventually learn the Lessons of Love and thus graduate from the 3D environment and thereby also move beyond the 3D Archetypical Mind; however, it is only through making The Choice (between STS and STO) and committing to it with enough will and faith that this graduation can commence. Thus, in 3D, "the statue is forged in the fire" (77.15).

That the 3D Archetypical Mind is not in any case necessary is true from the perspective of the Self as the One Infinite Creator -- for all experience is chosen and not forced. At some point in your existence as an undifferentiated aspect of the Creator, you decided that you wanted to experience existence as a m/b/s complex. However, now that this choice is made, it is necessary that you continue to experience these distortions. The strange paradox of freedom is that the moment you become free, you are doomed to choose. In 3D, you are doomed to choose between STS and STO. When you arrive at (or return to) 6D, this choice may then be released as a fond memory. But, alas, this is still 3D.
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05-24-2012, 09:12 PM, (This post was last modified: 05-24-2012, 09:34 PM by Tenet Nosce.)
#46
RE: The Choice
(05-24-2012, 08:18 PM)JustLikeYou Wrote:  Tenet, I welcome you to enjoy your belief system in whatever mode you prefer; however, since this is a sub-forum of Strictly Law of One, I will attempt to respond to you from the perspective of the Ra Material.

Thanks for the invitation, however according to my perspective, I was already writing from the perspective of the Ra Material. After all, Ra was the one who offered the image under our consideration. Wink

Is there a specific objection you have to the interpretation offered, leaving aside the commentary? Here it is again:

Tenet Nosce Wrote:INTERPRETATION: In order to acquire Choice, one must look beyond the outer appearances of duality (sun and moon), take up the burden of one's own balancing, and face the dragon (Dweller on the Threshold), thus freeing oneself from the need to incarnate within an archetypal field generated by a Logos.

Or perhaps your objection is with the graphic? If so, please provide supporting quotes from the Ra material which contradicts the offered interpretation. Here it is again:

[Image: attachment.php?aid=910]

Ra Wrote:within the, shall we say, guidelines or ways of the Logos, the sub-Logos may find various means of differentiating experiences without removing or adding to these ways.

Yes, exactly.

Quote:The sub-Logos neither adds nor removes from that realm which the Logos has established for the sub-Logos to have experience. Rather, within these guidelines, the sub-Logos may carve out an experience which is yet capable of infinite diversity. Consider, for example, a block of wood. There are infinite possibilities within the block of wood for the imaginative wood-carver; however, all of these possibilities are confined to this one block of wood. I may offer you a block of wood and tell you that you have the choice to make it into whatever you like, but if you respond that you want marble instead, I will have to remind you that all I offer is the block of wood. Make a beautiful carving and then you may graduate to the marble.

Precisely. A most excellent characterization!

Ra Wrote:The archetypical mind, when penetrated lucidly, is a blueprint of the builded structure of all energy expenditures and all seeking, without distortion.

Yes, when penetrated lucidly.

Quote:If the Archetypical Mind is the blueprint which depicts the structure of ALL energy expenditures and seeking, it is clear that the 3D environment has been given a definite set of limitations beyond which the 3D m/b/s complex cannot proceed. There are no extra alternatives, no other choices, no secret truth which will teleport the 3D seeker to a realm of non-duality. The mindful seeker will eventually learn the Lessons of Love and thus graduate from the 3D environment and thereby also move beyond the 3D Archetypical Mind; however, it is only through making The Choice (between STS and STO) and committing to it with enough will and faith that this graduation can commence. Thus, in 3D, "the statue is forged in the fire" (77.15).

Aside from your opinion that "The Choice" (with a capital "C") is between [<-- please view the link provided] STS and STO, I would agree with the remainder of your comments. I submit: the selection of STS or STO is the path by which one arrives at The Choice.

Quote:That the 3D Archetypical Mind is not in any case necessary is true from the perspective of the Self as the One Infinite Creator -- for all experience is chosen and not forced. At some point in your existence as an undifferentiated aspect of the Creator, you decided that you wanted to experience existence as a m/b/s complex. However, now that this choice is made, it is necessary that you continue to experience these distortions. The strange paradox of freedom is that the moment you become free, you are doomed to choose. In 3D, you are doomed to choose between STS and STO. When you arrive at (or return to) 6D, this choice may then be released as a fond memory. But, alas, this is still 3D.

Undoubtedly, and paradoxically, true.

Please accept this offer for pardon, but I'm not exactly clear what about my post you are taking issue with. I find my mind to be left with one of two conclusions: Either you misread my post, or you read something into it which was not present. As with all instances of dualistic perception, I am sure you can offer a third perspective which more closely represents the truth.

I invite you to do so. In the meantime, I will rest in the assurance that "All is Well."
We are unsure as to our success in realigning your modes of mentation.
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05-25-2012, 11:22 AM,
#47
RE: The Choice
(05-24-2012, 02:52 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote:  
(05-24-2012, 12:57 PM)ahktu Wrote:  Tenet, if I could like your post 1000000000 times, I would.

I would be fine with that, so long as your intention was not to be divisive or to ostracize anybody! Big Grin

Also, never would have been able to speak with that level of clarity without your help. Wink So thanks!

Post number 41?

Curious about your answer.
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05-25-2012, 05:35 PM,
#48
RE: The Choice
The Choice is between what you do with the infinite power when it is given to you.

Do you seek to spread it to others, thinking you are the first person to receive such powers. In other words, Shine.

Or

Do you see it as a natural state that is neither here nor there but is accesible by a state in the brain. Therefore the state itself is not worth "spreading" because you are the only creature in it, in a way as it is all one in the end anyway.

Do you wish to see spreading it as your purpose. OR you wish to see your life as your purpose and it as a tool for your life.
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05-25-2012, 06:34 PM, (This post was last modified: 05-25-2012, 06:37 PM by Tenet Nosce.)
#49
RE: The Choice
(05-25-2012, 05:35 PM)Cyan Wrote:  The Choice is between what you do with the infinite power when it is given to you.

Do you seek to spread it to others, thinking you are the first person to receive such powers. In other words, Shine.

Or

Do you see it as a natural state that is neither here nor there but is accesible by a state in the brain. Therefore the state itself is not worth "spreading" because you are the only creature in it, in a way as it is all one in the end anyway.

Do you wish to see spreading it as your purpose. OR you wish to see your life as your purpose and it as a tool for your life.

I like that! But again, is it an either/or situation? Isn't it wise to learn how to use these powers to improve one's own lot before spreading to others? Like in the image of the concentric circles, what we would characterize as the "negative path" is to stop at the boundary of STS and to turn away from radiating beyond that. But is there anything inherently "wrong" with attending to one's own needs and desires? How can we aid others in their needs and desires while sacrificing our own?

And besides, infinite power, being infinite, is continually expanding in scope and function. What happens if we turn to quickly to the outside in a dutiful attempt to spread it? Is there a risk of misleading others, and if so, are we responsible for that? Or is it more appropriate to simply radiate the highest light of which we may discern, and let the chips fall as they may?
We are unsure as to our success in realigning your modes of mentation.
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05-25-2012, 06:37 PM,
#50
RE: The Choice
Exactly. Which is why I struggle to maintain myself back and not preach, though i often fail Sad
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05-25-2012, 06:44 PM, (This post was last modified: 05-25-2012, 07:37 PM by Tenet Nosce.)
#51
RE: The Choice
(05-25-2012, 06:37 PM)Cyan Wrote:  Exactly. Which is why I struggle to maintain myself back and not preach, though i often fail Sad

But so what? You made one decision and you drew one archetype into your experience. You made a different decision and you drew a different archetype into your experience. Why the emphasis on "success" or "failure"? It's just another manifestation of duality. Smile Trying something different, that is what really counts!
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05-25-2012, 10:10 PM, (This post was last modified: 05-25-2012, 10:13 PM by abstrktion.)
#52
RE: The Choice
The Choice is the archetype that sort of started appearing in my latest painting...and I was contemplating the different understandings that have been offered--all of which appear to me to add to our collective understanding...

1) The right and left hand paths: Right: follow the crowd (stay in the Matrix) and live a "normal" life; Left: Choose freedom and essentially "death"--i.e., become as a dead man (one who knows this world and the next and lives without the desires of this world.). (Here the "left" is only "left" from the perspective of the world).

2) The right and left hand paths: Right: STO; Left: STS.

3) The Choice to "fall" into matter (i.e., incarnate here), forgetting the truth of Oneness in order to fully explore and experience the finite.

Can anyone add to my list? I'd just like a big brainstorm--what else could THE CHOICE give us for contemplation?

(05-25-2012, 06:34 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote:  Isn't it wise to learn how to use these powers to improve one's own lot before spreading to others? Like in the image of the concentric circles, what we would characterize as the "negative path" is to stop at the boundary of STS and to turn away from radiating beyond that. But is there anything inherently "wrong" with attending to one's own needs and desires? How can we aid others in their needs and desires while sacrificing our own?

I think at some point, we simply won't feel much by way of need and desire, and that's when we'll know we're really "done" here--nothing else to interest us, not even the prospect of being of service.
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05-25-2012, 11:12 PM,
#53
RE: The Choice
In your example, I chose "death" and freedom. Yet I strive to be STO.

Can we choose freedom, and choose STO?

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05-26-2012, 01:03 PM,
#54
RE: The Choice
The "death" and freedom means you would have no attachment to the outcome of your service--or whether you got to be of service at all. Desire draws us here, even the desire to serve, because it is something you "want". Striving implies preference and desire--but we are all in various stages of freeing ourselves from desire and working back towards unity. Working genuinely in duality/manifestation and with desire is an important part of choosing "death" and freedom, in my opinion.

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05-26-2012, 02:06 PM,
#55
RE: The Choice
(05-25-2012, 10:10 PM)abstrktion Wrote:  2) The right and left hand paths: Right: STO; Left: STS.

As you know Abstikron,

I would not agree with this. In my understanding, the left hand path is known in most of the eastern cultures as the divine Feminine path of seeking the Goddess within.

I think the modern usage of it as selfserving has resulted in the modern occult followings saying that they follow the left hand path and they do so inappropriately and in defiance and ignorance of ancient teachings. the left hand path would have as its goal the sacrifice of self in order to achieve transcendence from the physical.

Just my thoughts and opinions, not preaching any particular religion.


(05-25-2012, 06:44 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote:  
(05-25-2012, 06:37 PM)Cyan Wrote:  Exactly. Which is why I struggle to maintain myself back and not preach, though i often fail Sad

But so what? You made one decision and you drew one archetype into your experience. You made a different decision and you drew a different archetype into your experience. Why the emphasis on "success" or "failure"? It's just another manifestation of duality. Smile Trying something different, that is what really counts!

Tenet is right in my opinion. this existence is designed around duality, and because of that all efforts and experiences within it are ones of trying to avoid going to the extremes of any one opposite.

I think that success would be achieving a direction that would lean toward beneficial evolution, as opposed to incarnations that either slowly achieve or do not seem to learn lessons at all.

But in a universe of natural duality how can one claim success without stating that they somehow altered the universe into a state where it is no longer one of duality?
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05-26-2012, 06:38 PM, (This post was last modified: 05-26-2012, 07:04 PM by Tenet Nosce.)
#56
RE: The Choice
(05-26-2012, 02:06 PM)ShinAr Wrote:  I would not agree with this. In my understanding, the left hand path is known in most of the eastern cultures as the divine Feminine path of seeking the Goddess within.

I think the modern usage of it as selfserving has resulted in the modern occult followings saying that they follow the left hand path and they do so inappropriately and in defiance and ignorance of ancient teachings. the left hand path would have as its goal the sacrifice of self in order to achieve transcendence from the physical.

Just my thoughts and opinions, not preaching any particular religion.

I think it is just a matter of perspective. For example, a spiral which appears to be rotating clockwise from one side, will appear to be rotating counterclockwise from the other side.

Quote:But in a universe of natural duality how can one claim success without stating that they somehow altered the universe into a state where it is no longer one of duality?

By shifting one's perception to BOTH/AND in contrast to EITHER/OR. It is the ability to look at both sides of a duality and see that they are both true.

Here is an example. Pick any one place and time on the earth is it wet or dry? It is going to be either one or the other, right? But now zoom out to include the entire planet in one's consciousness. Now, is it wet or dry? It is both. Some parts are wet, some parts are dry. Simultaneously.

Now imagine that we picked one place, but looked at it from a vast perspective of time, say over ten thousand years. Is it wet or is it dry? The question doesn't even make any sense! It is both wet and dry.

Growth all comes down to the contextual field. Am I thinking only of myself, and my immediate needs and desires? Am I considering my family? My colleagues? My nation? My planet? What is the contextual field in which we are making these decisions? And which contextual field is most relevant to which types of decisions?

Duality is a useful tool for growth. But it is a tool, not the growth itself. Eventually, one outgrows the need for tools.
We are unsure as to our success in realigning your modes of mentation.
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abstrktion
05-27-2012, 08:55 AM,
#57
RE: The Choice
(05-26-2012, 06:38 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote:  
(05-26-2012, 02:06 PM)ShinAr Wrote:  I would not agree with this. In my understanding, the left hand path is known in most of the eastern cultures as the divine Feminine path of seeking the Goddess within.

I think the modern usage of it as selfserving has resulted in the modern occult followings saying that they follow the left hand path and they do so inappropriately and in defiance and ignorance of ancient teachings. the left hand path would have as its goal the sacrifice of self in order to achieve transcendence from the physical.

Just my thoughts and opinions, not preaching any particular religion.

I think it is just a matter of perspective. For example, a spiral which appears to be rotating clockwise from one side, will appear to be rotating counterclockwise from the other side.

Quote:But in a universe of natural duality how can one claim success without stating that they somehow altered the universe into a state where it is no longer one of duality?

By shifting one's perception to BOTH/AND in contrast to EITHER/OR. It is the ability to look at both sides of a duality and see that they are both true.

Here is an example. Pick any one place and time on the earth is it wet or dry? It is going to be either one or the other, right? But now zoom out to include the entire planet in one's consciousness. Now, is it wet or dry? It is both. Some parts are wet, some parts are dry. Simultaneously.

Now imagine that we picked one place, but looked at it from a vast perspective of time, say over ten thousand years. Is it wet or is it dry? The question doesn't even make any sense! It is both wet and dry.

Growth all comes down to the contextual field. Am I thinking only of myself, and my immediate needs and desires? Am I considering my family? My colleagues? My nation? My planet? What is the contextual field in which we are making these decisions? And which contextual field is most relevant to which types of decisions?

Duality is a useful tool for growth. But it is a tool, not the growth itself. Eventually, one outgrows the need for tools.

As usual my friend I am once again unsure of what you are saying. It is my fault. There are certain people who have ways of expressing themselves that certain other types have difficulty interpreting. I know because I am misinterpreted myself in this way.

So I will just state my thoughts without questioning yours.

I do not think duality is a matter pf perspective. I agree that there is most definitely observations of perspective, but those observations are not what make a thing real or unreal.

If we are both looking at a car from opposite sides, and that car is painted red on one side and blue on the other, we will each see a different color. that is perception. Our perception however has not altered the reality of the car being red and blue.

Just because you see the red car does not mean that car is all red.

If we apply that to duality, we understand that the anti-force to the force of origin, is not perspective, it is as real as the force. The opposite of a thing is every bit as real as it is.

TN, you seem to be using duality as a means to define the choices of a person's decision making as irrelevant because you see duality as a matter of perspective. Is that what you were saying or am I misunderstanding you?

You say it is a tool of growth, and not the growth itself. I do not understand what you mean here.

If you mean that the struggle to polarize because we exist in a universe of dual nature, causes growth, than I agree that duality has its purpose in the evolution of consciousness. And I agree that it is not the actual growth, because the universe is already one of duality by nature and that is not changing via some growth of such duality.

What changes is the entire universe and the various states within it. The duality of it never changes because duality is the very nature and essence of the universe.

I am speculating here as always and trying to use discourse with others to comprehend these things of such wonderment. No preaching is intended.








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05-27-2012, 12:07 PM, (This post was last modified: 05-27-2012, 12:10 PM by JustLikeYou.)
#58
RE: The Choice
Forgive my lack of clarity. My objection is to the way in which the concept of the archetype The Choice is construed as it relates to STS and STO.

Tenet Nosce Wrote:Or perhaps your objection is with the graphic? If so, please provide supporting quotes from the Ra material which contradicts the offered interpretation.

This is one part of my objection. Consider:

7.15
Ra Wrote:service to others results in service to self

11.31
Ra Wrote:To serve the self is to serve all.

7.17
Ra Wrote:The distortion lies in the fact that those who seek to serve the self are seen by the Law of One as precisely the same as those who seek to serve others, for are all not one? To serve yourself and to serve other is a dual method of saying the same thing, if you can understand the essence of the Law of One.

Therefore, I would redraw the diagram as follows: The greater circle would be titled "Service to All". Within this greater circle there would be two lesser circles titled "Service to Self" and "Service to Others". These circles would not overlap. It should not be thought that the absence of overlap means that an STO entity never engages in STS actions and vice-versa. We know that absolute purity is not the goal of walking either path. Rather, the purpose of the absence of overlap is to depict that a choice must be made between two paths, and in making this choice, one path must be abandoned.

Alternatively, the two lesser circles could be drawn with overlap, where the overlap is understood to be the "sinkhole of indifference" (17.33) between the two paths.

Then, in 6D, we graduate beyond the two smaller circles into the larger circle of Service to All, which includes both.

Tenet Nosce Wrote:Aside from your opinion that "The Choice" (with a capital "C") is between STS and STO, I would agree with the remainder of your comments. I submit: the selection of STS or STO is the path by which one arrives at The Choice.

This is the other part of my objection. You are right, it would have been wise for me to include the quotation I had in mind here. This is it:

77.16
Quote:Questioner: What I am really attempting to understand, since all of these twenty-one philosophical bases result in the twenty-second which is The Choice, is why this choice is so important, why the Logos seems to put so much emphasis on this choice, and what function this choice of polarity has, precisely, in the evolution or the experience of that which is created by the Logos?

Ra: I am Ra. The polarization or choosing of each mind/body/spirit is necessary for harvestability from third density. The higher densities do their work due to the polarity gained in this choice.

Here, Ra equates polarizing to choosing in response to a question about the archetype The Choice. Therefore, we may conclude that the choice which leads to polarizing is the same as the choice named in the archetype. As can be seen from the context of Ra's reference to the "polarity gained," this refers to the choice between STO and STS.

And yes, the choosing does occur between the two possible paths, however, to choose a path is to steadily more toward one and away from the other. This is what it means to polarize.

Therefore, I conclude that the moment to moment choice of STO or STS is The Choice in microcosm, while the story of 3D as a whole is The Choice in macrocosm.
All is well.
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05-27-2012, 03:08 PM,
#59
RE: The Choice
(05-26-2012, 06:38 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote:  Here is an example. Pick any one place and time on the earth is it wet or dry? It is going to be either one or the other, right? But now zoom out to include the entire planet in one's consciousness. Now, is it wet or dry? It is both. Some parts are wet, some parts are dry. Simultaneously.

Now imagine that we picked one place, but looked at it from a vast perspective of time, say over ten thousand years. Is it wet or is it dry? The question doesn't even make any sense! It is both wet and dry.

Growth all comes down to the contextual field. Am I thinking only of myself, and my immediate needs and desires? Am I considering my family? My colleagues? My nation? My planet? What is the contextual field in which we are making these decisions? And which contextual field is most relevant to which types of decisions?

Duality is a useful tool for growth. But it is a tool, not the growth itself. Eventually, one outgrows the need for tools.

I see polarity in the archetypes a bit like that--are certain ones active or dynamic? Well, it depends on the perspective, or relationship between the archetype and that with which it is interacting.

@Shin'Ar -- yes, I know you only agree with #1 in my list; I included #1 to represent what you had shared. I included #2 and #3 because others have those views.
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05-27-2012, 09:05 PM,
#60
RE: The Choice
From my understanding, we follow the path of that which is, being STO, in 3D, we balance with love in 4D and then intensify in 5D. Then, in 6D, we revisit the other path we left behind, the path of that which is not, and integrate that part that we had neglected. Ra has said we are all things, so those things that we put aside here in 3D because they are not who we are, will be revisited in 6D.

Am I correct in this? Are we to experience all things? Is everything that is possible to be experienced, going to be experienced by each one of us?

There is an anthro somewhere who needs me and I need them.
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