The Movement from the Experience into the Significator
03-10-2014, 03:49 AM,
#1
The Movement from the Experience into the Significator
once one has accepted the catalyst that has been offered (catalyst of the body = Wheel, catalyst of the mind = Empress, catalyst of the spirit = Star), the actual Experience can be had. The three Experience cards represent an aspect of constraint or difficulty, which must be worked through and processed before the resolution can be had at the level of the Significator.

this movement from the Experience into the Significator can be best summed up as the following pattern:

for the body: Enchantress --> Hanged Man = pain --> discipline

for the mind: Emperor --> Hierophant = burdens --> responsibilities

for the spirit: Moon --> Sun = confusion --> clarity

now because these three aspects of Experience (pain, burdens, confusion) are difficult and unpleasant, most would prefer not to deal with it, and either choose to ignore it if possible, or suppress it by some sort of chemical means or other addiction. But, deep down, these aspects will re-surface; as Experience is as unavoidable as the Catalyst which triggered it.

now the archetypes themselves don't apply to specific situations; they are the general patterns of movements at a deep level of mind; it is the energy which throbs and pulsates in response to the triggered 3d space/time stimulus.

Quote:91.37 This is a fairly adequate statement. The term “efficient” might also fruitfully be replaced by the term “undistorted.” The archetypical mind, when penetrated lucidly, is a blueprint of the builded structure of all energy expenditures and all seeking, without distortion. This, as a resource within the deep mind, is of great potential aid to the adept.

The archetypes themselves form a sequence of 7 in each of the body, the mind, and the spirit aspects of self. But in truth, the first two in each sequence (the matrix and the potentiator), and the last two in each sequence (the transformation and the great way) operate in a fairly independent way, and have less need to be invoked.

It is the middle three cards in each sequence which illuminate the nature of the 3d mind in processing our reality. This is the movement from the Catalyst --> the Experience --> the Significator.

or expressed another way, the catalyst is the trigger, the experience is the unpleasant or difficult event, and the significator is the resolution or understanding that is yielded from considered reflection of the event.

once this is laid bare, the motions of the mind can be much better appreciated. All the turmoil and difficulty arises from the flood of Experience that fills our life; if we give ourselves the time to process this Experience, and yield the dross to gold, the Significator becomes increasingly laden with the understandings and acceptances of that of a wise mind. That takes attention, and it involves commitment to the process. But its entirely possible, and open to all.
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03-10-2014, 01:00 PM, (This post was last modified: 03-10-2014, 02:51 PM by IndigoGeminiWolf.)
#2
RE: The Movement from the Experience into the Significator
I've been told by someone when I was sick that I needed to take my mind off of the archetypes and focus on getting better. Can study of the archetypes make one mentally unstable? Or is it always a healthy pursuit?

Either way, this is fascinating. I enjoy the archetypes.

There is an anthro somewhere who needs me and I need them.
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03-10-2014, 05:17 PM,
#3
RE: The Movement from the Experience into the Significator
(03-10-2014, 01:00 PM)Gemini Wolf Wrote:  I've been told by someone when I was sick that I needed to take my mind off of the archetypes and focus on getting better. Can study of the archetypes make one mentally unstable? Or is it always a healthy pursuit?

as for causing harm, I'm not sure about that.

all I can say is that one should pursue the learning that is most appropriate for one's development level. In terms of the kundalini, this will be the catalyst offered at the next sub-level up from where one's kundalini point currently is. This catalyst will be the most intensely felt because it is the blockage/misunderstanding blocking the high point of the movement of the upward reaching light.

of course, one has full choice in choosing where to allocate one's attention, and catalyst will always be offered and felt pertaining to all levels of imbalances (imbalances between the relative strength of the energy centres that is). But invariably, the raising of the kundalini represents an integrative aspect of preceding former levels, and so is a very healthy measure of where one's stabilised consciousness resides.

the kundalini can't be forced to rise; if it is done energetically/chemically, it will last for a short time, and then fall back downwards; there is not enough upward force to naturally sustain that higher state of beingness.

it's not an esoteric method to raise the kundalini; all you need to do is to pay attention to the most painful/pressing catalyst in your life at any point. If that catalyst is accepted, and worked through as experience, then the significator will record changes in understanding/acceptance. It's just an ongoing integration of the world as it presents itself to you, moment by moment.
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GentleWanderer
03-10-2014, 05:36 PM,
#4
RE: The Movement from the Experience into the Significator
(03-10-2014, 05:17 PM)Bring4th_Plenum Wrote:  it's not an esoteric method to raise the kundalini; all you need to do is to pay attention to the most painful/pressing catalyst in your life at any point. If that catalyst is accepted, and worked through as experience, then the significator will record changes in understanding/acceptance. It's just an ongoing integration of the world as it presents itself to you, moment by moment.

That's good to know. I don't have any painful catalyst, but I do get frustrating catalyst. I've learned to accept it. Good that the significator records changes in acceptance. I'd like to raise my kundalini naturally so that I can reach adepthood in order to aid the planet in reaching 4D.

Question, would I already be considered an adept if I am working with energy, and love/light? Would anyone who does this work be an adept?

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03-10-2014, 05:43 PM,
#5
RE: The Movement from the Experience into the Significator
(03-10-2014, 05:36 PM)Gemini Wolf Wrote:  Question, would I already be considered an adept if I am working with energy, and love/light? Would anyone who does this work be an adept?

hmmm. I'm not sure Gemini.

I do know, however, that plenty of people can open their third eye (indigo centre), and work with psychic forces and energy, and yet, according to Ra, that is not an indication of adepthood.
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xise
03-12-2014, 06:10 PM,
#6
RE: The Movement from the Experience into the Significator
Self-honesty is also a very important and I think very difficult aspect of processing catalyst.

You can't process catalyst if you unknowingly lie to yourself about what's going on, how you feel, and what you want to do about it.

Service to Others means Service to All. That includes yourself.
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03-12-2014, 06:23 PM,
#7
RE: The Movement from the Experience into the Significator
I agree with the importance of self-honesty. I'm not sure how it ties into processing catalyst though. I don't know enough about how catalyst interacts with us on an archetypal level.

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Confused
08-02-2014, 11:36 PM,
#8
RE: The Movement from the Experience into the Significator
(03-10-2014, 03:49 AM)Bring4th_Plenum Wrote:  once one has accepted the catalyst that has been offered (catalyst of the body = Wheel, catalyst of the mind = Empress, catalyst of the spirit = Star), the actual Experience can be had. The three Experience cards represent an aspect of constraint or difficulty, which must be worked through and processed before the resolution can be had at the level of the Significator.

I'm not sure that each of the experience cards offers catalyst in equal measure.

The Wheel is the primary catalyst because we exist in physicality and the circumstances/events/happenings of our physical environment are how we learn here in the Earth Life School (ELS).

The Empress is not a constraint or difficulty, it is the opposite. The Empress is Opportunity, The Experience of the Mind is to be in a place where everything is possible. The Empress is pregnant with possibility, waiting to be chosen. In early incarnations those possibilities are chosen by the Higher Self or unconsciously. As we become aware of our purpose and the reason for incarnation we become co-creators. Then we have a part to help choose which possibilities from the Environment of the Mind that we will manifest.

(03-10-2014, 03:49 AM)Bring4th_Plenum Wrote:  this movement from the Experience into the Significator can be best summed up as the following pattern:

for the body: Enchantress --> Hanged Man = pain --> discipline

I would say that the primary pairing is The Wheel and Strength.

Experiences from the Wheel (i.e events and circumstances) are Opportunities (card 10) (analogous to Empress's ELS physical environment) thrown at us for our reaction and interpretation. We use discernment (analogous to the Emperor) to decide whether we will be victims to this stuff, or will own it. It's the, "when life gives you lemons" will you make lemonade? cards. The two card sequence (cards 10 and 11; Wheel of Fortune and Strength) are a self-contained pair. The Hanged Man does not speak to the primary lesson of these cards. The cards are not about discipline, but about our reaction to catalyst.

(03-10-2014, 03:49 AM)Bring4th_Plenum Wrote:  for the mind: Emperor --> Hierophant = burdens --> responsibilities

If the Empress is the ELS of Opportunities, the Emperor is the Discernment of them. The issue is not about responsibilities. The issue to to SEE that the ELS is (magically) offering the perfect environment that has ALL the lessons for each of us. This in not an accident. The Environment you find yourself in is the perfect environment for the learning and lessons you have chosen for this life. The Hierophant is not burdens. The Hierophant is YOU. Leave all the other cards flat on the table as in a board came, but turn the Hierophant cards upright to walk around like a game piece on top of all the other "squares" on the board. The Hierophant is the Actor. All the other cards are events/circumstances/characteristics to explore.

(03-10-2014, 03:49 AM)Bring4th_Plenum Wrote:  for the spirit: Moon --> Sun = confusion --> clarity

The Moon confuses, but it is not Confusion. The Moon explicates that there is a deeper purpose here. it is not obvious but hidden. There is a mystical overlay on existence. Those who seek will find.

So the 4th column. Emperor = mental observation of the totality of the ELS. Strength = emotional observation of the events and circumstances that happen to the individual. Moon = the recognition of the self that the (above referenced environment and events and circumstances) suggest a larger spiritual purpose.

(03-10-2014, 03:49 AM)Bring4th_Plenum Wrote:  now because these three aspects of Experience (pain, burdens, confusion) are difficult and unpleasant, most would prefer not to deal with it, and either choose to ignore it if possible, or suppress it by some sort of chemical means or other addiction. But, deep down, these aspects will re-surface; as Experience is as unavoidable as the Catalyst which triggered it.

Pain, burdens, confusion are all thrown by the Wheel of Fortune. How you take those events, your emotional response to them, is Strength. These are second row archetypes.

(03-10-2014, 03:49 AM)Bring4th_Plenum Wrote:  It is the middle three cards in each sequence which illuminate the nature of the 3d mind in processing our reality. This is the movement from the Catalyst --> the Experience --> the Significator.

There is only one Significator of any importance; card 4. All Catalyst works on the YOU of card 4, whether of the Mind, Body or Spirit rows.

(03-10-2014, 03:49 AM)Bring4th_Plenum Wrote:  or expressed another way, the catalyst is the trigger, the experience is the unpleasant or difficult event, and the significator is the resolution or understanding that is yielded from considered reflection of the event.

The cards are paired cards, not triplicates. Column 3 cards offer an environmental catalyst which Column 4 cards completely answer. Only the Significator in row 1 holds the resolution or understanding of all three row's catalyst. The Significators of the Body and Spirit rows mean something different.
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JustLikeYou
08-03-2014, 03:17 PM,
#9
RE: The Movement from the Experience into the Significator
Ricdaw, your analysis, though clearly the result of focused effort, appears to be subject to frequent mislabelling. I'll identify these mislabels, but I also want to respond to some of your statements.

ricdaw Wrote:The Empress is not a constraint or difficulty, it is the opposite. The Empress is Opportunity

I agree with you here, but Plenum had associated the Emperor with constraint, not the Empress (though I disagree with Plenum's association--I prefer "responsibility" or "sovereignty" as governing conceptions of the Emperor).

ricdaw Wrote:The Hierophant is not burdens.

Plenum had associated the Hierophant with responsibilities and the Emperor with burdens in identifying a movement from one to the other.

ricdaw Wrote:The Hierophant is YOU. Leave all the other cards flat on the table as in a board came, but turn the Hierophant cards upright to walk around like a game piece on top of all the other "squares" on the board. The Hierophant is the Actor. All the other cards are events/circumstances/characteristics to explore.

I think you mean "Significator," of which the Hierophant is one, although your later statements suggest that you said what you meant in this case.

ricdaw Wrote:There is only one Significator of any importance; card 4....Only the Significator in row 1 holds the resolution or understanding of all three row's catalyst. The Significators of the Body and Spirit rows mean something different.

Presumably you mean card 5, the Hierophant.

Can you explain this thought? If the other two Significators are not important, then why do we have archetypes for them? What is it that they do?

ricdaw Wrote:The Moon confuses, but it is not Confusion. The Moon explicates that there is a deeper purpose here. it is not obvious but hidden. There is a mystical overlay on existence. Those who seek will find.

I agree that these are aspects of the Moon. Confusion is part of the Fool archetype, not the Moon. The experience of the Moon archetype indicates hidden things, but there is more going on here. The experience classification indicates the means by which catalyst is processed. In the Spirit Cycle, the catalyst of naked and vulnerable faith which steps forward naively into the spiritual world brings hard lessons which temper faith with what I refer to as discernment (note that you and I are using the word "discernment" in two different ways). The spiritual seeker (the Sun) walks forward on the Path, its heart leading the way, but finds not only that there is far more than is dreamt of in its philosophy, but also that the way is strait and narrow.

Seekers tend to be oafish and fumbling, their shadows constantly accosting them in the guise of the heart's desire. It is the province of the Experience of the Spirit to deliver to the seeker a sense of discipline about her act of walking in faith: she must always be on guard to distinguish whether what is being followed is the heart or the gut, the true self or the ego (to use standard new age terminology). Hence, on the card the two oppositely colored dogs face each other indicating direct confrontation of the shadow. And the black dog guards the white temple, indicating that the shadow lies squarely in the path of the seeker's quest for the Great Work.
All is well.
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08-03-2014, 07:32 PM,
#10
RE: The Movement from the Experience into the Significator
(08-03-2014, 03:17 PM)JustLikeYou Wrote:  Ricdaw, your analysis, though clearly the result of focused effort, appears to be subject to frequent mislabelling. I'll identify these mislabels, but I also want to respond to some of your statements.

I wish there was an Archetype for the drunkard who visits this forum after a happy night of food and bourbon. That card would apply to me for last night! I mislabeled all over the place....

ricdaw Wrote:The Empress is not a constraint or difficulty, it is the opposite. The Empress is Opportunity

(08-03-2014, 03:17 PM)JustLikeYou Wrote:  I agree with you here, but Plenum had associated the Emperor with constraint, not the Empress (though I disagree with Plenum's association--I prefer "responsibility" or "sovereignty" as governing conceptions of the Emperor).

Sorry Plenum and JustLikeYou. See preceding drunkard comment.

I can see "responsibility" in card 4, in the sense that we are responsible for the catalyst we draw forth from Card 3. But I think the primary attribute of Card 4 is to become aware of the way Catalyst works. Those who read Ra get the way of catalyst already. But for those who go through life la de da will probably come to see that the apparently random universe seems to be acting with a high degree of non-random behavior. Emperor observes the environment and begins to see that there is a pattern. The opportunities presented repeat themselves as if they were lessons to be learned. The events of card 10 (wheel, if I can count right) are too targeted to be truly random. So Emperor looks at the state of the landscape (Card 3 Empress) and the characteristics thrown out of card 10 (wheel) and begins to perceive a pattern; that there is purpose expressed there. Eventually, if the Emperor seeks a bit more, he will see that there is a spiritual purpose to these same things. Not just a hope of a purpose (Faith/Star) but a demonstrable larger purpose to the lifetime (Moon).

I put a lot of the work of discovery on the poor Emperor.

ricdaw Wrote:There is only one Significator of any importance; card 4....Only the Significator in row 1 holds the resolution or understanding of all three row's catalyst. The Significators of the Body and Spirit rows mean something different.

(08-03-2014, 03:17 PM)JustLikeYou Wrote:  Presumably you mean card 5, the Hierophant.

Can you explain this thought? If the other two Significators are not important, then why do we have archetypes for them? What is it that they do?

Darn. I really was toasted last night. Sorry, folks.

Some of the cards are more placeholders in the grid than highly complex concepts. Death is one of those cards to me. The Hierophant is the incarnate soul. It has the sum of past lives (biases, understandings, state of spiritual development, etc.) It's a pretty big deal with the concept reincarnation and soul progression over many lifetimes. But the Hanged Man is (IMO) a juxtaposition to de-emphasize the Body. We humans associate too much with our bodies and can be very limiting. The "lesson" of this card is to free ourself from the body as an end in and of itself. We are not down here for our body. We are in a body to work on spiritual development. It's a relatively simple, albeit life changing kind of concept.

So, to me, Sun and Hanged Man are simpler concepts, more like placeholders in the column. That may be my bias. Maybe the concept of reincarnation is the one that hit me hardest. And once I "got" that, the fact that the body is just a temporary vehicle seemed kind of obvious. So Hanged Man has seemed relatively straight forward. The Sun might be very charged for someone who came to tarot from organized religion. The concept that God is okay with what we call "evil" might be a very charged concept The most self-serving dictator is loved too? Really? There is no hell? No eternal punishment for that kind of stuff? So the Sun is a great card to ponder when you read the daily news. These people doing (supposed) bad/evil things are loved as much as the saints!?!

ricdaw Wrote:The Moon confuses, but it is not Confusion. The Moon explicates that there is a deeper purpose here. it is not obvious but hidden. There is a mystical overlay on existence. Those who seek will find.

(08-03-2014, 03:17 PM)JustLikeYou Wrote:  I agree that these are aspects of the Moon. Confusion is part of the Fool archetype, not the Moon.


How so? I see naiveté, not confusion, in that card. The very first time we come into incarnation on the Earth Life School is going to be quite a ride.

(08-03-2014, 03:17 PM)JustLikeYou Wrote:  The experience of the Moon archetype indicates hidden things, but there is more going on here. The experience classification indicates the means by which catalyst is processed. In the Spirit Cycle, the catalyst of naked and vulnerable faith which steps forward naively into the spiritual world brings hard lessons which temper faith with what I refer to as discernment (note that you and I are using the word "discernment" in two different ways).


I put all the "tempering" into card 14 (Temperance). It is the processing of mental, physical and spiritual catalyst for me. I don't see the figure in the Star as being a person at all, just a personification of a concept. Her feet do not sink into the water like a person's would. They float. This, to me, is a critical visual cue that the figure in that card is not supposed to be a person at all. Faith is a passive concept, adopted in the dim starlight to hold onto a belief in God and spirit and purpose. Those of STS use this faith not at all. Their "waters" (left hand pouring) go back to the sea of emotional water/spirit unused. Those of STO (right hand pouring) cultivate growing plants and light as those waters fall upon the land. The card does not evoke characteristics of a person (naked and vulnerable) because it is a drawing of a concept which is naked because it is not a person.

(08-03-2014, 03:17 PM)JustLikeYou Wrote:  The spiritual seeker (the Sun) walks forward on the Path, its heart leading the way, but finds not only that there is far more than is dreamt of in its philosophy, but also that the way is strait and narrow.


I don't see a seeker in the Sun. I see the Seeker in the Fool. And eventually, through observation and discernment, the Hierophant becomes a seeker when he/she gets that big choice to make in the Lovers card. The Sun card does not describe a person seeking. It is the Sun and the idea that spirit gains positive and negative "charge" during its incarnation cycle.

(08-03-2014, 03:17 PM)JustLikeYou Wrote:  Seekers tend to be oafish and fumbling, their shadows constantly accosting them in the guise of the heart's desire. It is the province of the Experience of the Spirit to deliver to the seeker a sense of discipline about her act of walking in faith: she must always be on guard to distinguish whether what is being followed is the heart or the gut, the true self or the ego (to use standard new age terminology). Hence, on the card the two oppositely colored dogs face each other indicating direct confrontation of the shadow. And the black dog guards the white temple, indicating that the shadow lies squarely in the path of the seeker's quest for the Great Work.

Very interesting. I don't understand the concepts of shadow or walking in faith. The Experience of Spirit to me is to see that there is a spiritual meaning or purpose behind everything that is/happens to you while incarnate. Sometimes good things happen (white dog) but they lead to an easy life and the dark pyramid is not explored (or noticed). A person is lead into complacency and does not strive in that lifetime to "see." Sometimes bad things happen (dark dog) and the catalyst of that leads to seeing the white pyramid, and seeing that spirit brought you that unpleasant dog on purpose. To the extent that the Seeker sees all catalyst (both white and dark dogs) as revealing important life lessons, a person can remain balanced and progress quickly between those two towers to the greater truth beyond/between them. More than hardship or shadow, I see the biggest impediment is wealth, TV, easy living. Those are the shadows that can stop learning for an entire lifetime.

Good discussion JustLikeYou. I will ponder your interpretation of the Moon and see if I can learn more!
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08-03-2014, 09:59 PM, (This post was last modified: 08-03-2014, 10:00 PM by JustLikeYou.)
#11
RE: The Movement from the Experience into the Significator
ricdaw Wrote:Emperor looks at the state of the landscape (Card 3 Empress) and the characteristics thrown out of card 10 (wheel) and begins to perceive a pattern; that there is purpose expressed there.

I actually mean more than this when I say responsibility. The Emperor is sovereign over his realm. Therefore, if there is conflict or malcontent or any kind of disharmony, it is his business to sort things out by listening and adjudicating. In terms of the human experience, this is analogous to emotional processing and the restructuring of beliefs. In terms of processing mental catalyst (which includes both contradictory beliefs and unbalanced emotions) it is not enough to simply recognize a pattern.

I associate responsibility with the Emperor because it is only through carefully and consciously taking responsibility for all of your thoughts, beliefs, desires and emotions that the emotional knots in the unconscious mind can be loosened and eventually dissolved. This process lies firmly within the mind, for therapists facilitate this process without ever invoking any spiritual experiences.

ricdaw Wrote:I put a lot of the work of discovery on the poor Emperor.

And I burden him further with the work of acceptance and forgiveness.

ricdaw Wrote:Death is one of those cards to me. The Hierophant is the incarnate soul. It has the sum of past lives (biases, understandings, state of spiritual development, etc.) It's a pretty big deal with the concept reincarnation and soul progression over many lifetimes.

I think you've nailed the Hierophant.

ricdaw Wrote:But the Hanged Man is (IMO) a juxtaposition to de-emphasize the Body. We humans associate too much with our bodies and can be very limiting. The "lesson" of this card is to free ourself from the body as an end in and of itself. We are not down here for our body. We are in a body to work on spiritual development. It's a relatively simple, albeit life changing kind of concept.

You're right that the body needs some de-emphasis in our society, but at the same time it also needs lots of appreciation and acceptance. The body is inborn with as many biases as the mind. We call them "genes". I'm not sure that we are in agreement that humans need to be "freed" from the body as an end in and of itself. The body is to be experienced--as are all things. The purpose of life is not to evolve; the purpose of life is to experience. Evolution is merely the method by which experience occurs. We evolve because we are tired of the same old experiences and want something more satisfying. This is the same reason that children move from one interest to another in the course of their development.

ricdaw Wrote:So, to me, Sun and Hanged Man are simpler concepts, more like placeholders in the column. That may be my bias. Maybe the concept of reincarnation is the one that hit me hardest. And once I "got" that, the fact that the body is just a temporary vehicle seemed kind of obvious. So Hanged Man has seemed relatively straight forward. The Sun might be very charged for someone who came to tarot from organized religion. The concept that God is okay with what we call "evil" might be a very charged concept The most self-serving dictator is loved too? Really? There is no hell? No eternal punishment for that kind of stuff? So the Sun is a great card to ponder when you read the daily news. These people doing (supposed) bad/evil things are loved as much as the saints!?!

We clearly disagree about the Sun. I do not associate this archetype with the One Infinite Creator. The reason for this is that the OIC is not part of 3rd density experience. All of these archetypes represent something within us, but the OIC as such is not part of that experience--it stands well outside 3rd density as the foundation of all existence. Rather, the divine within is a more resonant interpretation of this card for me.

ricdaw Wrote:
JustLikeYou Wrote:I agree that these are aspects of the Moon. Confusion is part of the Fool archetype, not the Moon.

How so? I see naiveté, not confusion, in that card. The very first time we come into incarnation on the Earth Life School is going to be quite a ride.

I am using the word "confusion" in the sense of the Law of Confusion. Pardon my failure to mention that. The Fool is a direct consequence of the veiling, the utter absense of knowledge. Hence the Law of Confusion serves to protect the Fool.

That said, you are right: the Fool's "confusion" is more like naiveté.

ricdaw Wrote:I put all the "tempering" into card 14 (Temperance). It is the processing of mental, physical and spiritual catalyst for me. I don't see the figure in the Star as being a person at all, just a personification of a concept. Her feet do not sink into the water like a person's would. They float. This, to me, is a critical visual cue that the figure in that card is not supposed to be a person at all. Faith is a passive concept, adopted in the dim starlight to hold onto a belief in God and spirit and purpose. Those of STS use this faith not at all. Their "waters" (left hand pouring) go back to the sea of emotional water/spirit unused. Those of STO (right hand pouring) cultivate growing plants and light as those waters fall upon the land. The card does not evoke characteristics of a person (naked and vulnerable) because it is a drawing of a concept which is naked because it is not a person.

I use words in order to describe, so please be mindful that we may use them in different ways. I grasp what you mean by your association of "termpering" with 14, but I mean the word differently than you do, as I will describe later.

As far as your interpretation of 17, I can only say that we disagree.

ricdaw Wrote:I don't see a seeker in the Sun. I see the Seeker in the Fool.

Good point. Perhaps my terms are too loose here. To me, the Sun is the pure, harmonic, sacred experience of the spirit in its fullness. In those moments when we grasp that there is nothing to do and nowhere to go, that we are always and ever embraced by the infinite love of the divine acting through the all-wise, all-loving inner Logos, in those very moments, we are resonating with archetype 19. The Sun is the inner temple where we sometimes find ourselves, but would like to always be.

So the spiritual seeker is seeking to find the temple and to learn to carry it wherever it should find itself. The Fool seems to me to be a seeker in search of an adventure. But the spiritual self, depicted by the Sun, is the part of the self that has a gravity; it pulls us in, whether we are conscious of it or not. In response to this pull, we seek in a spiritual sense. We rarely know what we seek or how close to us it really is, hence "Few there are which are successful in grasping the light of the sun."

ricdaw Wrote:Sometimes good things happen (white dog) but they lead to an easy life and the dark pyramid is not explored (or noticed). A person is lead into complacency and does not strive in that lifetime to "see." Sometimes bad things happen (dark dog) and the catalyst of that leads to seeing the white pyramid, and seeing that spirit brought you that unpleasant dog on purpose.

What you are describing here is either bodily or mental catalyst--probably mental, since your associations match the black and white servants of the Hierophant. Bodily catalyst is either comfortable or uncomfortable and mental is either preferred or not. The spirit does not interpret "good" things or "bad" things in these senses. It may be hidden to itself, as in the case of the Matrix, #15, but that which is hidden is only viewed as "bad" by those who are spiritually asleep.

The Lightning experience (#16) usually brings with it catalyst for body and mind (discomfort and "bad" things happening), but these are peripheral. The center of the Lightning's action is to reveal the terrain of the Matrix. The Lightning opens the spiritual eye to greater truths, whether they are truths about the universe or truths about the self. This sudden awakening changes everything. People who have these experiences normally find within themselves a brand new motivation, something deeper, more fulfilling, more spiritual. If you haven't experienced this yourself, then surely you know someone who has. Something happens (perhaps an NDE or and OBE) and a person just can't go on living the standard life. She is compelled to do something meaningful.

ricdaw Wrote:To the extent that the Seeker sees all catalyst (both white and dark dogs) as revealing important life lessons, a person can remain balanced and progress quickly between those two towers to the greater truth beyond/between them.

This suggests that there ought to be more archetypes to identify what lies "beyond/between." My interpretation of these Pyramids is that they represent the Great Work, one STO, the other STS.

Nevertheless, while seeing life lessons in the experience is important, it is still only a mental experience. The spiritual experience is a much different animal. Once the mind is sufficiently balanced, then the work of the spirit begins. But this work is predicated on the assumption that you've already cultivated habits of mindfulness, acceptance, forgiveness, a synthetic interpretation of reality, AND the wisdom and temperance necessary for bodily balance.

So what is left? Why the Great Work, of course. What is this? That depends upon the person. The spirit is only comfortable in a spontaneous environment: you must allow the spirit to move through your mind and your body into manifestation. Artists are often able to tap into this experience easily. In the process of releasing the bonds of material attachment, what remains is the undeniable pull of the deep inner drive, which I call the vocation or the calling. It is only in undertaking this work that each of us is capable of serving in our greatest capacity...but it is frightening. It requires complete faith, utter abandon, a willingness to forgo all security and certainty, under the assumption that the spirit is leading us aright. The willingness do engage in this experiment, which most people around you will think is completely absurd, is the catalyst of the spirit.

An example: I was married to a woman for about 8 years. In the course of that 8 years, we together hit rock-bottom (through a kind of co-dependency) and then experienced simultaneous spiritual awakenings. Over the course of the four years that followed, we both learned to become the people we always wanted to be. Our relationship became about as harmonious as you can imagine in a marriage. It was beautiful. We were completely honest with each other, supportive, loving, all that good stuff.

But one day the Lightning struck me. In a flash of sudden awakening I realized that the unsettled feeling that I had always had about our marriage (a feeling that was directly related to our rock-bottom experience) had still not dissipated, despite the incredible harmony between us. In that awakening I discovered that the center of that feeling was the awareness that I was not and never had been comfortable with the idea that she and I would be life-partners. The relationship felt right, all 12 years of it, but the idea that it would be for life did not feel right.

Because our relationship was based on honesty, I told her this. It quickly became clear that we were going to have to separate. No one in the world understood this. They all thought I was either crazy or stupid for letting go of such a beautiful relationship. But it didn't matter. I knew it was right.

And this is the essence of spiritual catalyst: you know it's right, despite all evidence to the contrary. But this is a very dangerous place to be. Why? Because what if your sense of what is right is really coming from a place of imbalance that is disguising itself as the pull of the heart?

The shadow, or the rejected self, tries to stay hidden. But in order to stay hidden, it must be fed in certain ways. In my case, there was no manual that instructed me on how to navigate this experience. My divorce was not like any other divorce I have ever heard of. I had to beat my own path. I had to rely heavily and almost exclusively on my sense of what was right for me. I had to learn how to be loving, understanding, supportive and adaptive while also creating distance between us without building resentment. I didn't always tread that fine balance as well as I'd have liked to. But the reason I was able to prevent resentment is that I was careful to make sure that my actions did not originate in an agenda hidden even from myself--or at least that it did not happen very often.

The Moon is all about becoming aware of the shadow's hidden agenda. You can easily see the consequences of not doing so: every false guru or self-important yoga teacher is an example of a person who attempted to walk in the faith of the spirit, but failed to discern between heart and shadow.

...I did not intend to go on so long. I hope that clarifies what I am attempting to describe here.
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08-04-2014, 12:26 PM, (This post was last modified: 08-04-2014, 03:48 PM by ricdaw.)
#12
RE: The Movement from the Experience into the Significator
I am enjoying this thread. A lot.

(08-03-2014, 09:59 PM)JustLikeYou Wrote:  [quote=ricdaw]Emperor looks at the state of the landscape (Card 3 Empress) and the characteristics thrown out of card 10 (wheel) and begins to perceive a pattern; that there is purpose expressed there.

(08-03-2014, 09:59 PM)JustLikeYou Wrote:  I actually mean more than this when I say responsibility. The Emperor is sovereign over his realm. Therefore, if there is conflict or malcontent or any kind of disharmony, it is his business to sort things out by listening and adjudicating. In terms of the human experience, this is analogous to emotional processing and the restructuring of beliefs. In terms of processing mental catalyst (which includes both contradictory beliefs and unbalanced emotions) it is not enough to simply recognize a pattern.

I associate responsibility with the Emperor because it is only through carefully and consciously taking responsibility for all of your thoughts, beliefs, desires and emotions that the emotional knots in the unconscious mind can be loosened and eventually dissolved. This process lies firmly within the mind, for therapists facilitate this process without ever invoking any spiritual experiences..

I accept and agree that the Emperor has a heavy burden. My bias is mental, so recognizing a pattern is how I personally process emotions and restructure beliefs. Your mileage may vary. You and I are pretty much in agreement (using different words) for Card 4. There is a lot of work in this card (Emperor).

ricdaw Wrote:I put a lot of the work of discovery on the poor Emperor.

(08-03-2014, 09:59 PM)JustLikeYou Wrote:  And I burden him further with the work of acceptance and forgiveness.

LOL. We have the same understandings, but put them in different cards. I put the whole kitten and kaboodle of acceptance and forgiveness in card 11 (Strength). Acceptance and forgiveness are emotional energies associates with Body, not Mind. So I believe acceptance and forgiveness are the essence of Strength. We are in the same column of cards here, so its just a tiny thing. Let me ask, what is your primary meaning for card 11 (Strength)?

ricdaw Wrote:But the Hanged Man is (IMO) a juxtaposition to de-emphasize the Body. We humans associate too much with our bodies and can be very limiting. The "lesson" of this card is to free ourself from the body as an end in and of itself. We are not down here for our body. We are in a body to work on spiritual development. It's a relatively simple, albeit life changing kind of concept.

(08-03-2014, 09:59 PM)JustLikeYou Wrote:  You're right that the body needs some de-emphasis in our society, but at the same time it also needs lots of appreciation and acceptance. The body is inborn with as many biases as the mind. We call them "genes".

I think that Mind is the Maker. So genetic bias is actually a mental creation of a body catalyst. I don't think the ancient Egyptians would undestand the concept of genes. So, to keep the cards focused, I would think that the preincarnative "biases," even thouse expressed in the body, are part of the Hierophant's essential core meaning. Mind builds the body. (Justice talks about the inate intelligence of the body.) Anyway, I guess it doesn't matter which card we put genetic bias into so long as it's there somewhere.

(08-03-2014, 09:59 PM)JustLikeYou Wrote:  I'm not sure that we are in agreement that humans need to be "freed" from the body as an end in and of itself. The body is to be experienced--as are all things. The purpose of life is not to evolve; the purpose of life is to experience.

Ra said as much, life is for experience. However, I think the tarot is a specific spiritual lesson that life really is to evolve. I don't see a card that says "experience life to its fullest" but actually its opposite. The Devil card is about people "experiencing life" as if it were all that there is. And that card is the starting point for the rest of the deck. As a teaching tool, the tarot, I think, is pretty single minded: we are here to evolve. It actually discourages experience for experience sake (or takes that as a given as being the starting point for the larger lesson).

(08-03-2014, 09:59 PM)JustLikeYou Wrote:  Evolution is merely the method by which experience occurs. We evolve because we are tired of the same old experiences and want something more satisfying. This is the same reason that children move from one interest to another in the course of their development.

Not in agreement here. We evolve because that's why we exist here at all. The whole reason to be a person in 3D earth is to acquire the polarity to get to 4th, then onward to reunification with the creator. The tarot is a spiritual teaching of soul evolution. It is not a "live life to its fullest" teaching deck. We evolve because it is imperative, not because we are bored. (Though that is one way to get the cart moving.)

ricdaw Wrote:So, to me, Sun and Hanged Man are simpler concepts, more like placeholders in the column. That may be my bias. Maybe the concept of reincarnation is the one that hit me hardest. And once I "got" that, the fact that the body is just a temporary vehicle seemed kind of obvious. So Hanged Man has seemed relatively straight forward. The Sun might be very charged for someone who came to tarot from organized religion. The concept that God is okay with what we call "evil" might be a very charged concept The most self-serving dictator is loved too? Really? There is no hell? No eternal punishment for that kind of stuff? So the Sun is a great card to ponder when you read the daily news. These people doing (supposed) bad/evil things are loved as much as the saints!?!

(08-03-2014, 09:59 PM)JustLikeYou Wrote:  We clearly disagree about the Sun. I do not associate this archetype with the One Infinite Creator. The reason for this is that the OIC is not part of 3rd density experience. All of these archetypes represent something within us, but the OIC as such is not part of that experience--it stands well outside 3rd density as the foundation of all existence. Rather, the divine within is a more resonant interpretation of this card for me.

ricdaw Wrote:I don't see a seeker in the Sun. I see the Seeker in the Fool.

(08-03-2014, 09:59 PM)JustLikeYou Wrote:  Good point. Perhaps my terms are too loose here. To me, the Sun is the pure, harmonic, sacred experience of the spirit in its fullness. In those moments when we grasp that there is nothing to do and nowhere to go, that we are always and ever embraced by the infinite love of the divine acting through the all-wise, all-loving inner Logos, in those very moments, we are resonating with archetype 19. The Sun is the inner temple where we sometimes find ourselves, but would like to always be.

What you describe here I associate with the final card (Universe). It is about the reintegration of self with the creator.

(08-03-2014, 09:59 PM)JustLikeYou Wrote:  So the spiritual seeker is seeking to find the temple and to learn to carry it wherever it should find itself. The Fool seems to me to be a seeker in search of an adventure. But the spiritual self, depicted by the Sun, is the part of the self that has a gravity; it pulls us in, whether we are conscious of it or not. In response to this pull, we seek in a spiritual sense. We rarely know what we seek or how close to us it really is, hence "Few there are which are successful in grasping the light of the sun."

What you describe here I also associate with the final card (Universe). The Great Way cards are the exhortation cards, they are the cards that "pull" us.

ricdaw Wrote:Sometimes good things happen (white dog) but they lead to an easy life and the dark pyramid is not explored (or noticed). A person is lead into complacency and does not strive in that lifetime to "see." Sometimes bad things happen (dark dog) and the catalyst of that leads to seeing the white pyramid, and seeing that spirit brought you that unpleasant dog on purpose.

(08-03-2014, 09:59 PM)JustLikeYou Wrote:  What you are describing here is either bodily or mental catalyst--probably mental, since your associations match the black and white servants of the Hierophant. Bodily catalyst is either comfortable or uncomfortable and mental is either preferred or not. The spirit does not interpret "good" things or "bad" things in these senses. It may be hidden to itself, as in the case of the Matrix, #15, but that which is hidden is only viewed as "bad" by those who are spiritually asleep.

I think the tarot is a deck of key lessons for the spiritually asleep. The spiritually awake don't need the cards. I assume that the intent of the cards is to reach the spiritually asleep, and thus use the good dog/bad dog interpretation.

(08-03-2014, 09:59 PM)JustLikeYou Wrote:  The Lightning experience (#16) usually brings with it catalyst for body and mind (discomfort and "bad" things happening), but these are peripheral. The center of the Lightning's action is to reveal the terrain of the Matrix. The Lightning opens the spiritual eye to greater truths, whether they are truths about the universe or truths about the self. This sudden awakening changes everything. People who have these experiences normally find within themselves a brand new motivation, something deeper, more fulfilling, more spiritual. If you haven't experienced this yourself, then surely you know someone who has. Something happens (perhaps an NDE or and OBE) and a person just can't go on living the standard life. She is compelled to do something meaningful.

Beautiful sentiment. I have had the Lightening experience.

ricdaw Wrote:To the extent that the Seeker sees all catalyst (both white and dark dogs) as revealing important life lessons, a person can remain balanced and progress quickly between those two towers to the greater truth beyond/between them.

(08-03-2014, 09:59 PM)JustLikeYou Wrote:  This suggests that there ought to be more archetypes to identify what lies "beyond/between." My interpretation of these Pyramids is that they represent the Great Work, one STO, the other STS.

Nevertheless, while seeing life lessons in the experience is important, it is still only a mental experience. The spiritual experience is a much different animal. Once the mind is sufficiently balanced, then the work of the spirit begins. But this work is predicated on the assumption that you've already cultivated habits of mindfulness, acceptance, forgiveness, a synthetic interpretation of reality, AND the wisdom and temperance necessary for bodily balance.

So what is left? Why the Great Work, of course.

I agree with you about the Great Work, but that's what cards 7, 14 and 21 express/explicate. The Moon wasn't intended to carry that much water. The Moon is an early lesson for spirit. The advanced lesson you talk about are at 7,14 and 21.

(08-03-2014, 09:59 PM)JustLikeYou Wrote:  What is this? That depends upon the person. The spirit is only comfortable in a spontaneous environment: you must allow the spirit to move through your mind and your body into manifestation. Artists are often able to tap into this experience easily. In the process of releasing the bonds of material attachment, what remains is the undeniable pull of the deep inner drive, which I call the vocation or the calling. It is only in undertaking this work that each of us is capable of serving in our greatest capacity...but it is frightening. It requires complete faith, utter abandon, a willingness to forgo all security and certainty, under the assumption that the spirit is leading us aright. The willingness do engage in this experiment, which most people around you will think is completely absurd, is the catalyst of the spirit.

True this. But the concept is from cards 7 and 14, not the Moon.

(08-03-2014, 09:59 PM)JustLikeYou Wrote:  The Moon is all about becoming aware of the shadow's hidden agenda. You can easily see the consequences of not doing so: every false guru or self-important yoga teacher is an example of a person who attempted to walk in the faith of the spirit, but failed to discern between heart and shadow.

I can see that the Moon could express a warning about false gurus. That is consistent with the card. But I still don't understand your intent or meaning of the word "shadow." It implies a psychological characteristic that is not part of the tarot lexicon. The tarot speaks to veiling, not to any active attempt by the universe, or an inner psychological demon, to deceive.

(08-03-2014, 09:59 PM)JustLikeYou Wrote:  ...I did not intend to go on so long. I hope that clarifies what I am attempting to describe here.

Not too long at all! Good conversation!
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08-06-2014, 06:26 PM,
#13
RE: The Movement from the Experience into the Significator
ricdaw Wrote:Acceptance and forgiveness are emotional energies associates with Body, not Mind.

I'm not sure I understand why it is that you make this association...

Acceptance can be of the body--if it is the body itself that you are in the process of accepting. But if it is an emotion, a habit, an attitude, a belief, a fear, etc., then the reference of the act of accepting is mental. The evidence for this is that in order to accept something, you must first reach into your unconscious mind to know it.

Forgiveness is simply a specific kind of emotional balancing: one which refers to the victim/victimizer experience.

While there are "emotional" experiences which refer to the body, these are really just cravings that we think of as emotions. Sexual lust on a purely physical level, for example, is a bodily craving, like hunger, thirst or sleepiness.

To answer your question, I view #11 as the archetype of unconscious adaptation. It restabilizes the physical balance after the potentiator has upset it and the catalyst has reacted to the upset balance. The potentiator, if it has done its job well, forms a new habit. But the body and the environment will respond differently to this habit. The new response of the body and its environment to the new habit is catalyst for bodily growth. But the process according to which the body adapts to the new environment is not itself a conscious experience.

Suppose, for example, that after a long period of living a sedentary lifestyle, I suddenly decide I want to start lifting weights regularly. The decision and execution of the intention to life weights regularly is the potentiator of the body tilting the scales of the matrix. In response to this action, my muscles will develop tiny tears that are felt as soreness for the next couple of days. This is the catalyst. Finally, the body will heal these tears in such a way that the muscles will not tear as easily if I lift weights again. This is the experience. The example I have given indicates fairly obviously why the archetype is often called "strength." The body seeks to adapt to whatever comes its way, carefully strengthening itself in order to handle the catalyst.

This process, of course, works in reverse also: with disuse, the muscular tissue will be broken down because it costs too much energy to maintain (remember that the body seeks homeostasis, the lowest energy state).

ricdaw Wrote:I don't see a card that says "experience life to its fullest"

What about the Fool? Besides, those who are truly relentless in their search for new and satisfying experience will typically discover, as Epicurus did, that "living life to the fullest" does not lead to a hedonistic lifestyle. Rather, a poor imagination and a scarcity of mindfulness is what leads to hedonism.

ricdaw Wrote:It actually discourages experience for experience sake

I disagree. #6, the Two Paths, indicates that at some point you'll discover that you can't have it both ways. Even if your purpose is to experience for the sake of experiencing, you have to evolve or else risk a stagnation in your experience. The Tarot does not discourage experience for experience's sake; rather, it teaches that if you imagine to yourself that "do what thou wilt is the whole of the law" means "sex, drugs and rock and roll," you'll find yourself disappointed. There are no oughts in the Tarot or in the Law of One, but there are consequences.

ricdaw Wrote:The whole reason to be a person in 3D earth is to acquire the polarity to get to 4th, then onward to reunification with the creator.

When you play a game, do you play it to win or to have fun? In fundamental terms, you play it to have fun. But in order to have fun, you have to commit yourself to an attempt at winning.

If you try to have fun without any effort at winning, you'll feel bored. If you try to win but forget that the underlying purpose is fun, you'll be unhappy and stressed out the whole time.

ricdaw Wrote:What you describe here I associate with the final card (Universe). It is about the reintegration of self with the creator.

That's a good association. I've been torn about my interpretation of #19 anyway. When I began to give these archetypes distinct personalities (ones which I am capable of channeling), I landed on the Keeper of the Temple for #19. The keeper is spiritual through and through, but he is not necessarily enlightened; rather, he is merely devoted.

ricdaw Wrote:The spiritually awake don't need the cards. I assume that the intent of the cards is to reach the spiritually asleep, and thus use the good dog/bad dog interpretation.

I disagree here. The archetypal mind is the blueprint of 3D experience. It is the instruction manual. This is useful to anyone at any level of advancement in the way that music theory is useful to any musician.

ricdaw Wrote:I can see that the Moon could express a warning about false gurus.

The Moon can warn against following false gurus, but the deeper warning is that you might become a false guru. This is what I mean by the shadow.

When people begin to notice a spiritual presence in you, they give you attention, respect and admiration. In a word, they give you power. But how will you respond to this power? In truth, you don't really know how you will respond to it until you experience it. A false guru craves the power and manipulates his students so that they continue to give it to him. A true spiritual teacher accepts the power given, but treats it with the utmost respect, carefully safeguarding the free will of his students.

The false guru does not consciously manipulate his students. Rather, it is the shadow whose actions seep out through the weak points in the false guru's awareness of self that does the manipulating. The guru cannot admit to himself that what he desires is power, so he relegates the part of himself that does indeed crave it into the shadow. In the shadow, the desire for power is fed and cultivated in secret, without the conscious mind ever knowing about it unless it is willing to face the small hints that it is constantly being given.

In short, the shadow is a portion of the spirit which is separated off by the mind's unwillingness to face certain parts of itself.

The temptation to false enlightenment is precisely why I identify #18 as, in fact, an advanced spiritual lesson: you can't learn it until you've taken a few steps and acquired a requisite level of spiritual development.
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08-07-2014, 11:26 AM, (This post was last modified: 08-20-2014, 04:22 PM by ricdaw.)
#14
RE: The Movement from the Experience into the Significator
(08-06-2014, 06:26 PM)JustLikeYou Wrote:  
ricdaw Wrote:Acceptance and forgiveness are emotional energies associates with Body, not Mind.

I'm not sure I understand why it is that you make this association...

Acceptance can be of the body--if it is the body itself that you are in the process of accepting. But if it is an emotion, a habit, an attitude, a belief, a fear, etc., then the reference of the act of accepting is mental. The evidence for this is that in order to accept something, you must first reach into your unconscious mind to know it.

Forgiveness is simply a specific kind of emotional balancing: one which refers to the victim/victimizer experience.

While there are "emotional" experiences which refer to the body, these are really just cravings that we think of as emotions. Sexual lust on a purely physical level, for example, is a bodily craving, like hunger, thirst or sleepiness.

To answer your question, I view #11 as the archetype of unconscious adaptation. It restabilizes the physical balance after the potentiator has upset it and the catalyst has reacted to the upset balance. The potentiator, if it has done its job well, forms a new habit. But the body and the environment will respond differently to this habit. The new response of the body and its environment to the new habit is catalyst for bodily growth. But the process according to which the body adapts to the new environment is not itself a conscious experience.

I put acceptance and forgiveness in card 11 because that's what the picture suggests to me is what it means. The figure is female, but she is not passive. She is interacting with the environment "lion" consciously and actively. So this female character does not represent the unconscious or negative polarity like the other female figures, she represents something else. I posit that the something is the "act" of forgiveness (response to a "lion" of a situation that diffuses the lion) or acceptance (response to a "lion" of a situation which brings peace to the figure regardless of the lion). This "action" is a passive action, yet it can be profoundly empowering (thus name of the card, Strength). I put all emotional elements in the Body row.

None of the cards in the Mind row carry an emotional charge for me. Whereas all the cards in the Body row do.

I believe that acceptance and forgiveness are emotional constructs, not mental.

ricdaw Wrote:I don't see a card that says "experience life to its fullest"

(08-06-2014, 06:26 PM)JustLikeYou Wrote:  What about the Fool?

In a tarot reading, yes. But Ra never described that card as an indulgence. I have more to say on the Fool, but I'll post it in that thread.

ricdaw Wrote:The whole reason to be a person in 3D earth is to acquire the polarity to get to 4th, then onward to reunification with the creator.

(08-06-2014, 06:26 PM)JustLikeYou Wrote:  When you play a game, do you play it to win or to have fun? In fundamental terms, you play it to have fun. But in order to have fun, you have to commit yourself to an attempt at winning.

If you try to have fun without any effort at winning, you'll feel bored. If you try to win but forget that the underlying purpose is fun, you'll be unhappy and stressed out the whole time.

I'm not disagreeing with your sentiment, only that it is not an Archetype. Ra never described life down here as a game. Ra's message was decidedly not about having fun but the need to study and know the Law of One. The concepts of fun, winning, bored do not show up in the Ra Material. The concepts of unaware and asleep do.

Indeed, Ra are part of "the brothers and sisters of sorrow." They come to alleviate our pain and the call we send out. And their message is not, "You crazy Earthlings! You take yourselves way too seriously and need to loosen up! You need to get out there and have some fun!"

I don't think the idea/concept of "experience life to the fullest" is properly one of Ra's archetypes.

ricdaw Wrote:The spiritually awake don't need the cards. I assume that the intent of the cards is to reach the spiritually asleep, and thus use the good dog/bad dog interpretation.

(08-06-2014, 06:26 PM)JustLikeYou Wrote:  I disagree here. The archetypal mind is the blueprint of 3D experience. It is the instruction manual. This is useful to anyone at any level of advancement in the way that music theory is useful to any musician.

I agree that the cards are useful to everyone. But the purpose of Ra's intervention, the very reason why they came, was to help wake us up; not to give advanced lessons to a population that was already doing well on its own. The cards were intended for remedial learning.
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08-07-2014, 01:48 PM,
#15
RE: The Movement from the Experience into the Significator
ricdaw Wrote:Ra never described life down here as a game.

50.7
Ra Wrote:Let us give the example of the man who sees all the poker hands. He then knows the game. It is but child’s play to gamble, for it is no risk. The other hands are known. The possibilities are known and the hand will be played correctly but with no interest.

In time/space and in the true-color green density, the hands of all are open to the eye. The thoughts, the feelings, the troubles, all these may be seen. There is no deception and no desire for deception. Thus much may be accomplished in harmony but the mind/body/spirit gains little polarity from this interaction.

Let us re-examine this metaphor and multiply it into the longest poker game you can imagine, a lifetime. The cards are love, dislike, limitation, unhappiness, pleasure, etc. They are dealt and re-dealt and re-dealt continuously. You may, during this incarnation begin — and we stress begin — to know your own cards. You may begin to find the love within you. You may begin to balance your pleasure, your limitations, etc. However, your only indication of other-selves’ cards is to look into the eyes.

You cannot remember your hand, their hands, perhaps even the rules of this game. This game can only be won by those who lose their cards in the melting influence of love; can only be won by those who lay their pleasures, their limitations, their all upon the table face up and say inwardly: “All, all of you players, each other-self, whatever your hand, I love you.” This is the game: to know, to accept, to forgive, to balance, and to open the self in love. This cannot be done without the forgetting, for it would carry no weight in the life of the mind/body/spirit beingness totality.

ricdaw Wrote:Ra's message was decidedly not about having fun but the need to study and know the Law of One.

103.20
Ra Wrote:Rest your cares and be merry.

106.20
Ra Wrote:Laugh together, and find joy in and with each other.

19.17
Ra Wrote:Some love the light. Some love the darkness. It is a matter of the unique and infinitely various Creator choosing and playing among its experiences as a child upon a picnic. Some enjoy the picnic and find the sun beautiful, the food delicious, the games refreshing, and glow with the joy of creation. Some find the night delicious, their picnic being pain, difficulty, sufferings of others, and the examination of the perversities of nature. These enjoy a different picnic.

All these experiences are available. It is free will of each entity which chooses the form of play, the form of pleasure.

ricdaw Wrote:But the purpose of Ra's intervention, the very reason why they came, was to help wake us up; not to give advanced lessons to a population that was already doing well on its own. The cards were intended for remedial learning.

1.0
Ra Wrote:We have been called to your group, for you have a need for the diversity of experiences in channeling which go with a more intensive, or as you might call it, advanced approach to the system of studying the patterns of the illusions of your body, your mind, and your spirit, which you call seeking the truth.
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08-07-2014, 02:03 PM, (This post was last modified: 08-20-2014, 04:36 PM by ricdaw.)
#16
RE: The Movement from the Experience into the Significator
(08-07-2014, 01:48 PM)JustLikeYou Wrote:  
ricdaw Wrote:Ra never described life down here as a game.

JustLikeYou inserts lots of wonderful quotes from Ra.

LOL! All true. But not as an archetype in the tarot cards. My context, the name of this wonderful thread itself, and the limits of my statements, is that no card image, and no card, has this meaning. It is a true and valid concept, one I use with those who get readings from me, but it not an archetype. No tarot card carries the water for this perfectly wonderful and valid observation.
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02-19-2017, 10:37 AM,
#17
RE: The Movement from the Experience into the Significator
(03-10-2014, 03:49 AM)Bring4th_Plenum Wrote:  or expressed another way, the catalyst is the trigger, the experience is the unpleasant or difficult event, and the significator is the resolution or understanding that is yielded from considered reflection of the event.

Just to make sure i've well understood, is this right ?

- a driver cut me up and we almost had an accident, as a result i'm feeling fearful, angry : catalyst (event that produced an emotional response)

- being angry there is the impulsion to manifest my anger physically, verbally to the other driver or find a way to avenge myself but i choose instead to feel and accept my emotions and to calm down because i know acting upon anger is silly and that the driver probably didn't want to annoy me but was late : experience (the choice made to be peaceful)

- later after reflecting about the situation, i tell myself that meeting such bad drivers can happen but there is no need to be resentful or to hate them and the only thing i can do is to be more vigilant myself on the road : significator (some wisdom about the experience, that can be sometimes generalized to others situations)

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As soon as you have made a thought, laugh at it.   Lao Tzu

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Bring4th_Plenum
02-21-2017, 12:53 AM,
#18
RE: The Movement from the Experience into the Significator
sounds about right to me Smile

what you described would fit the - Wheel of Fortune (unexpected physical event) - the Enchantress (finding a way to soothe the physical experience, the Lion) - and the Hanged Man (being able to re-organize one's attitudes, with respect to the physical plane, a greater discipline).
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GentleWanderer
02-21-2017, 06:10 AM,
#19
RE: The Movement from the Experience into the Significator
Ok, so it would relate to the cards of the body. I thought it was the mind because it's the mind who made the choice.

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As soon as you have made a thought, laugh at it.   Lao Tzu

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02-21-2017, 06:47 AM,
#20
RE: The Movement from the Experience into the Significator
well - it's the Mind that *always* makes the choice ... the body and the spirit are just agencies that the Mind can utilize.

Cards 1-7 are much more internal ... in that they don't really reference external aspects.  It's really the 'Inner Dream', when seen from the perspective of the Chariot, which is the 'context' in which those first 7 Cards play out.
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02-21-2017, 01:14 PM,
#21
RE: The Movement from the Experience into the Significator
(02-21-2017, 06:47 AM)Bring4th_Plenum Wrote:  well - it's the Mind that *always* makes the choice ... the body and the spirit are just agencies that the Mind can utilize.

I'd add the caveat here that this statement is true within the context of the study of the archetypal mind.  Obviously body and (especially) spirit are modes of being that can't simply be reduced to a function of mind, right?  Sorry if I'm nitpicking but Ra always reminds Don of the nature of archetypal study so I thought I'd mention this clarification--unless we're farther apart than I at first thought.

Jeremy
It is not that love will tell you what to do.
It is that love will tell you how to do it with love.
Q'uo 3/19/06
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02-21-2017, 01:28 PM,
#22
RE: The Movement from the Experience into the Significator
well, if one is partial to A Course in Miracles, they too would assert the primacy of the mind.  A (from memory) paraphrase: the body is not subject to inherent error, and the spirit is already perfected.  So the only choice (boiled down) is between the ego (separation) and the Atonement (god's kingdom).  I mean, it's a large tome, but if one had to digest the essence of the philosophy, it pretty much comes down to that.

/ /

in terms of your question though, I would say that the archetypes of the body (cards 8-14) act as an interface means between the mind and the body.   So the archetypes themselves are existent within the mind itself, but they play out in a 'domain' that is most definitely external to the mind itself.  Materiality is most definitely not just a 'figment' of the mind. Big Grin
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ricdaw, rva_jeremy
02-21-2017, 02:51 PM,
#23
RE: The Movement from the Experience into the Significator
I definitely think that mind and thought constitute the moves in the game we can make completely consciously, and that therefore mental archetypes are appropriate interfaces to other portions of being when it comes to "making the Choice". I just think it's important to distinguish the interface from what you're interfacing to; that was my only point.

Jeremy
It is not that love will tell you what to do.
It is that love will tell you how to do it with love.
Q'uo 3/19/06
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Bring4th_Plenum
02-21-2017, 03:03 PM,
#24
RE: The Movement from the Experience into the Significator
yah, gotcha.
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rva_jeremy
04-23-2017, 08:49 PM,
#25
RE: The Movement from the Experience into the Significator
I have found archetypes to be helpful in grasping in an undistorted way the articulation of the creator. Resonance with the archetypes is done to a deeper level of mind than conscious thinking. To try to breakdown the experience of archetypes and correlate them to incarnation experience is in my opinion to make anew erroneous assumption. Assuming catalytic derivatives from within incarnation are partial to that of the logos which created the conditions as an experiment.

There is value to this as each entity has a unique perception of each archetype. I dont seek understanding which has no direct effect on my actions and therefore more directly polarity.
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