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Is debt karma?
02-17-2010, 06:51 PM
Post: #1
Is debt karma?
Ok, I owe a few charged off credit cards that I used to set up my business. After having to pay IRS taxes it will be tight to pay them off, but eventually I will do so.

I'm actually not worried about it, as I take things in the moment. However, it made me curious, as to if we have debts when we transition on, will that debt on us be a karmic anchor that holds us in 3D?

It comes to being honest and having integrity to pay ones debts. But with quite a bit of this, it can be a challenge to take care of it all and "die" with no debt.
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02-17-2010, 07:12 PM
Post: #2
RE: Is debt karma?
I would think it depends on the energetic involvement in the debt. You can't take your riches with you, so why the debt, as long as it's just numbers?
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02-17-2010, 09:51 PM
Post: #3
RE: Is debt karma?
Debt is not karma.

I would request for all of those reading my words, please guard well your thoughts. If my words resonate, then by all means take them and use them as you can. If they do not resonate, please let them fall away like water does from a ducks back, and move on. Love/Light, Adonai.
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02-17-2010, 10:47 PM
Post: #4
RE: Is debt karma?
(02-17-2010 06:51 PM)Gemini Wolf Wrote:  if we have debts when we transition on, will that debt on us be a karmic anchor that holds us in 3D?

Oh gosh, I hope not! Sad

Seriously, I think it would depend on the intention.

The Law of One 3:65
Could your planet polarize towards harmony in one fine, strong, moment of inspiration? Yes, my friends. It is not probable; but it is ever possible.
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02-18-2010, 02:23 AM (This post was last modified: 02-18-2010 02:29 AM by Cyclops.)
Post: #5
RE: Is debt karma?
I agree with Monica here because I can see the ways if a person would lets say take loans out knowing that one doesn't have to pay it back. The lender of this loan expects it and doesn't know that the borrower won't be returning the loan. To me this seems like a type of manipulation of sorts of another's energy for benefit of the self. If the intention is there to get away with that debt with trickery then there might be some karma or might not be. I don't know if carrying a debt of money would be a considerable karmic action.

Here's some interesting quotes which I found on intent, taken from a discussion on karma.
Quo Wrote:In this system of judging the dynamic between intention and manifestation, it is not precisely that intention is all. It is that intention is the only metaphysical portion of the equation. So intention figures into the vibratory nature of yourself as a result of the action that you have done.
Quo Wrote:There is a third level upon one which may consider intention and action and how that affects polarity. And this is perhaps closer to the crux of your query than either of the other two levels we have discussed. This level of consideration is entirely metaphysical.

Here's some general things on karma and how one can stop it.
Quote:Questioner: Thank you. Would you define karma?

Ra: I am Ra. Our understanding of karma is that which may be called inertia. Those actions which are put into motion will continue using the ways of balancing until such time as the controlling or higher principle which you may liken unto your braking or stopping is invoked. This stoppage of the inertia of action may be called forgiveness. These two concepts are inseparable.

Questioner: If an entity develops what is called karma in an incarnation, is there then programming that sometimes occurs so that he will experience catalysts that will enable him to get to a point of forgiveness thereby alleviating the karma?

Ra: I am Ra. This is, in general, correct. However, both self and any involved other-self may, at any time through the process of understanding, acceptance, and forgiveness, ameliorate these patterns. This is true at any point in an incarnative pattern. Thus one who has set in motion an action may forgive itself and never again make that error. This also brakes or stops what you call karma.

Also an interesting point Q'uo makes is that if you're totally unaware of what you are doing you are not responsible.
Quo Wrote:One who is ignorant cannot be held as being guilty of that in which he was in complete ignorance.

And apparently eating any type of food involves some karma.
Quo Wrote:On the other hand, it is well to point out that there is what you may call a kind of karma involved in eating anything whatsoever: berries, nuts, vegetables, grasses and dairy products. All of these things have a consciousness of a kind. It is not only the flesh of fish and animals that cannot be consumed without there being a responsive effect
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02-18-2010, 03:09 AM
Post: #6
RE: Is debt karma?
Ok, then take out a $10 billion loan and forgive yourself for not paying it back by 2013... karma erased Big Grin

I would request for all of those reading my words, please guard well your thoughts. If my words resonate, then by all means take them and use them as you can. If they do not resonate, please let them fall away like water does from a ducks back, and move on. Love/Light, Adonai.
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02-18-2010, 03:42 AM
Post: #7
RE: Is debt karma?
Great, at last a subject that I claim to know something about !

Having endured the loss of my business and a subsequent period of debt / living hand to mouth / scrambling etc it became clear to me that this was a Life Lesson of mine. The situation provided important catalyst for growth in many areas including relationships (stronger bonding in this case).
Money is one of the most important tools on STS worlds and Planetary Schools as it enables enslavement and subjection to the "pecking order" of the society. Is money "bad" ? I don't think so, it is simply a commodity like any other (good/bad), but we should remember that this paradigm has been carefully engineered by the ruling elite from the beginnings of our history to the current day.

The "separateness" that evolves from this form of society encourages the pyramidal hierarchy of leadership that we observe today and more importantly for the elite, prevents us discovering the true potential that we, as a whole or community have.

If the value of money is what we amongst ourselves agree upon then the value of debt must also be a product of our consensus reality that we choose to subscribe to.
Bearing in mind that fiat world currencies are no longer backed by commodities (gold, silver etc.) it would appear that WE really do set the value of this paper.
From a LOO perspective the debt can not be "real" as the entire concept of money is based on scarcity as opposed to the abundance that we know exists if we embrace the concept of a limitless Creation.

Is anyone familiar with NESARA ?
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02-20-2010, 04:49 PM (This post was last modified: 02-20-2010 04:52 PM by Questioner.)
Post: #8
RE: Is debt karma?
My own take:

Money is a symbol of energy in motion. It's useful to be able to keep track of symbolic value assigned to the results of activities. It's convenient to be able to have a unified scorecard to measure use of resources. These positive aspects have been subverted into a tool of control based on fear of loss and scarcity. Within 3D, the key lesson is that Bucky Fuller proved Thomas Malthus wrong.

When what was loaned was something that nature made grow and multiply, a return of more than what was loaned makes sense. Borrow the dog, return the dog and get a puppy. Loan seeds to a farmer and get back more seeds than you gave. Money doesn't multiply itself as a force of nature. Mixing interest payments with fiat currency guarantees that someone will lose their place when the music stops.

The current system was designed by a few people as a tool of power, coercion and STS accumulation. Most people use it without any clue about where it came from. News reports treat our political/economic/financial system as some kind of force of nature that just happened without human involvement, like volcanoes. This is a useful fantasy for those who benefit the most from unequal distribution.

I think NESARA is a glitzy showbiz distraction. For those looking for a force outside themselves, it lets them shift their dependency from the present negatively manipulated economic system to a hypothetical future manipulated economic system. Until that external dependency is broken: meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

Giving the loan, receiving the loan, paying or not repaying when one has the means: all of these only mean anything as they embody a spiritual orientation. Money itself is a fiction and debt is a story using those imaginary characters such as "Mr. Dollar" and "The Economy." Those stories are ways to help provide people with opportunities to serve or be served, to use or to give of their lives.
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02-21-2010, 05:59 PM (This post was last modified: 02-22-2010 12:29 AM by Monica.)
Post: #9
RE: Is debt karma?
(02-18-2010 03:42 AM)Ashim Wrote:  this paradigm has been carefully engineered by the ruling elite from the beginnings of our history to the current day.

The "separateness" that evolves from this form of society encourages the pyramidal hierarchy of leadership that we observe today and more importantly for the elite, prevents us discovering the true potential that we, as a whole or community have.

If the value of money is what we amongst ourselves agree upon then the value of debt must also be a product of our consensus reality that we choose to subscribe to.
Bearing in mind that fiat world currencies are no longer backed by commodities (gold, silver etc.) it would appear that WE really do set the value of this paper.
From a LOO perspective the debt can not be "real" as the entire concept of money is based on scarcity as opposed to the abundance that we know exists if we embrace the concept of a limitless Creation.

Very astute! Why even play the game?

I too was in a similar situation. My husband and I were forced (by circumstances like getting laid off, etc.) to file bankruptcy. I struggled with this for awhile...wouldn't this be incurring karma if we shirked the responsibility of repaying those debts?

I think if someone intentionally charges up their credit cards with abandon, then files bankruptcy in order to avoid paying it back would be incurring karma. But in our case, and probably that of most well-intentioned people, we just got in over our heads due to economic factors, many of which were perpetrated by STS entities in positions of power. For example, on one level, the reasons I got laid off were a) the company was outsourcing jobs to India and b) a co-worker lied about me in order to save his own job.

Prior to getting laid off, we had been paying our bills just fine. So, by looking more deeply into the situation, it could be said that STS energies were involved in my getting into that situation of debt in the first place.

Then, I had health problems which were largely caused by me being vulnerable (many years ago) to manipulation by someone I now believe to be STS. The health problems precluded me from working a regular 8-5 job.

I'm not making excuses for my own response to catalyst, but am just showing how different energies come into play.

Then you have the credit card companies who routinely take advantage of others...with inflated interest rates etc. It's a form of usury. This doesn't mean we should screw them over in return, of course, but somehow, when events happen without our intentions, such as my own situation in which I was advised by an attorney to file bankruptcy because we were in so deep, and that was preferable to losing our house, sometimes there is a sense of cosmic justice when we choose to forgive ourselves for past mistakes.

I truly don't feel one iota of guilt over those credit card charges. I know it wasn't intentional. I had full intentions of paying it back. However, now that those charges have been neutralized, as I begin to attract more abundance in my life, I want to give to others...share that abundance in some way...which will bring the energy full circle and participate in that cosmic justice.

Since we are all ONE, it seems to me that paying it forward (as directed by guidance) could be seen as neutralizing past debt karma in much the same way as repaying the entity we owed...maybe even be better in some cases.

Since I didn't intentionally try to take $$ from the credit card companies, but it just happened the way it did...just flowed...I am choosing to accept that flow and trust that a balancing of energies is being orchestrated, of which I played a tiny part. I truly believe that the old structures of banking, the corrupt medical industry, aspects of government, etc. are crumbling before our very eyes, and the true prosperity is being redistributed...NOT by any political means, but by natural forces unseen. Abundance is being utilized by those who can use it for good, instead of the old corrupt institutions who are on their way out.

The Law of One 3:65
Could your planet polarize towards harmony in one fine, strong, moment of inspiration? Yes, my friends. It is not probable; but it is ever possible.
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02-21-2010, 11:46 PM
Post: #10
RE: Is debt karma?
(02-17-2010 06:51 PM)Gemini Wolf Wrote:  Ok, I owe a few charged off credit cards that I used to set up my business. After having to pay IRS taxes it will be tight to pay them off, but eventually I will do so.

I'm actually not worried about it, as I take things in the moment. However, it made me curious, as to if we have debts when we transition on, will that debt on us be a karmic anchor that holds us in 3D?

It comes to being honest and having integrity to pay ones debts. But with quite a bit of this, it can be a challenge to take care of it all and "die" with no debt.

Hi all,

IMO, I don't think that there is karma involved if you leave financial debts behind at the time of transition as long as you have been honest to others involved in the debts and/or to yourself. Maybe in only a few rare cases when the person was clearly dishonest, there is the creation of a karmic debt!

The key here is to avoid feeling attached to possessions or the lack of them! If possessions want to come your way, welcome them. It no material wealth seems to come to you, it may be because of the subtle difference between our desires on one hand and, our true needs on the other hand, and, the way we tend to misunderstand and confuse those two!

After all, being born here on Earth gives us some birthrights to enjoyment of Earth ressources without having to pay money to some others - and, who are they to charge us!? - Besides, money is a virtual commodity created only to enslave those who wants to be so!

However I am inclined to think that there may be karma when there is debt in action or in words; like a good deed one has to fix or to render back.
It cannot be bad if we finish our endeaviours and little dramas in the best possible manner before transitioning. Smile

L/L
Whitefeather

Keeping the light on in the dark Idea
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02-22-2010, 10:21 AM
Post: #11
RE: Is debt karma?
Hello, all! Heart My simple opinion:

Debt can come in many different forms than just monetary. If you are attached to your debt, (i.e. if the idea of you in debt is made into a part of your ego) hence if it is something that is a cause of suffering in your life, then you are karmically bound. You haven't learned the lesson yet.

"A mountain holds an echo deep inside. That's how I hold your voice."
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09-01-2012, 08:52 PM
Post: #12
RE: Is debt karma?
(02-17-2010 06:51 PM)Gemini Wolf Wrote:  Ok, I owe a few charged off credit cards that I used to set up my business. After having to pay IRS taxes it will be tight to pay them off, but eventually I will do so.

I'm actually not worried about it, as I take things in the moment. However, it made me curious, as to if we have debts when we transition on, will that debt on us be a karmic anchor that holds us in 3D?

It comes to being honest and having integrity to pay ones debts. But with quite a bit of this, it can be a challenge to take care of it all and "die" with no debt.

are you debt free now?
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09-01-2012, 08:55 PM
Post: #13
RE: Is debt karma?
(09-01-2012 08:52 PM)plenum Wrote:  
(02-17-2010 06:51 PM)Gemini Wolf Wrote:  Ok, I owe a few charged off credit cards that I used to set up my business. After having to pay IRS taxes it will be tight to pay them off, but eventually I will do so.

I'm actually not worried about it, as I take things in the moment. However, it made me curious, as to if we have debts when we transition on, will that debt on us be a karmic anchor that holds us in 3D?

It comes to being honest and having integrity to pay ones debts. But with quite a bit of this, it can be a challenge to take care of it all and "die" with no debt.

are you debt free now?

Far from it. I've lost track of who I owe. They don't call me anymore either.

A Furry Star - An Anthro Sun
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09-01-2012, 09:02 PM
Post: #14
RE: Is debt karma?
(09-01-2012 08:55 PM)Gemini Wolf Wrote:  Far from it. I've lost track of who I owe. They don't call me anymore either.

lol. I guess they go easier on you over there.

when I first moved into my last apartment (more than 7 years ago), the last guy was a foreign student who skipped the country after their studies. Of course, they decided not to pay their final utility bills, so I kept getting their nasty 'pay now' letters for about a year. Then they decided to stop wasting money on paper and stamps. Big Grin
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09-02-2012, 01:01 PM
Post: #15
RE: Is debt karma?
I was pondering this myself awhile ago and I thought "well I'm f-d if thats the case" since I try to find analogies with the physical/spiritual realm, but I really don't think it has anything to do with a spiritual debt. Besides having 60K in school loans, I was just a dumb kid at the time and kept blowing my credit cards. But hey I paid my CC bills up until 2009 when my life changed. I did it for 2 main reasons:

1. Because I enjoyed blowing "free" money.
2. I'm gonna screw the banks as much as they screwed our country

I think you're good man Smile Maybe this is our revenge for the banks screwing the human race for centuries. I did some research on this and typically unless you own assets like a house, car, land, etc, the credit card companies won't bother to sue you, they'll do the next best thing and call the crap outta you. Most judgements that the collectors win are default judgements, in which the defendant never goes to court.

p.s. For us Americans, our all wise and knowing government was thoughtful enough to pay the big credit card companies billions upon billions of dollars for them to stay afloat, so we should ALL CONSIDER OUR BALANCES PAID IN FULL!! Smile

The most vital lessons are the ones we have the hardest time accepting.
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09-02-2012, 01:30 PM (This post was last modified: 09-02-2012 01:33 PM by jivatman.)
Post: #16
RE: Is debt karma?
Modern fiat currency, and thus money itself, is debt-based.

It is part of a modern attempt to make us all debtors by making all value seem to exist because of the government.

*Note that I use the term Government only for lack of a better term, as the Fed is actually a Chimera and acts as either a government entity or a public entity, and is thus able to use the legal system as no other organization can. You can see a simple example of this by going to http://www.federalreserve.gov/ , which is a .gov or public site, versus http://www.newyorkfed.org which is a private, corporate, .org site.
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09-02-2012, 02:01 PM
Post: #17
RE: Is debt karma?
(09-02-2012 01:30 PM)jivatman Wrote:  Modern fiat currency, and thus money itself, is debt-based.

Yes yes!! So many people do not understand or refuse to acknowledge how money originates.

The most vital lessons are the ones we have the hardest time accepting.
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09-02-2012, 02:21 PM
Post: #18
RE: Is debt karma?
Thank you all for your feedback and input.
I did my best to pay off quite a few debts. There are still a few out there.
I do own a home and car, but in Texas they can't take these away.

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09-04-2012, 01:33 PM
Post: #19
RE: Is debt karma?
I see debt as invisible chains. Nothing happens accidental, the banks/governmensts had make it too easy for us. The debts are astronomical raised in this end time of the great cycle. This may make the Harvest impossible for most of us.
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09-04-2012, 01:40 PM (This post was last modified: 09-04-2012 01:41 PM by Patrick.)
Post: #20
RE: Is debt karma?
Except that we do have an opportunity to release all karma at this time. So monetary debt is not going to have any input into the harvest unless you choose to. Smile

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"you wish them love, light, peace, joy, and bid them well" ~ Ra
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09-04-2012, 01:42 PM
Post: #21
RE: Is debt karma?
(09-04-2012 01:40 PM)Patrick Wrote:  Except that we do have an opportunity to release all karma at this time. So monetary debt is not going to have any input into the harvest unless you choose to. Smile

Yes, the end of this banking system. CoolWink
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09-04-2012, 02:55 PM (This post was last modified: 09-04-2012 02:57 PM by Richard.)
Post: #22
RE: Is debt karma?
Been the bankruptcy route here too. Due to a combo of catalyst all at once. Lay-off, heart attack and eventual passing of my mother in law...and plain bad money mgmt. But we recently payed back 100% over a 5 yr program last November. And in that oh so stressful 5 yrs, we learned a few things the hard way. But if debt is karma and/or catalyst? Then its a good teacher.

Most of us will always have debt in some form. (i.e. mortgages, car pymt)...but being free of the revolving credit scam of credit cards is almost indescribable.

My wife and I are still together though. And we're stronger for the experience. But the bankruptcy courts and the payback programs were definitely no fun, lol.

Richard

The boldness of asking deep questions may require unforeseen flexibility if we are to accept the answers. ~ Brian Greene
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09-22-2012, 09:45 PM
Post: #23
RE: Is debt karma?
I see I offered my opinion on it a long time ago on the first page. Tongue

This has deepened a little bit with time. Money represents energy moving from one person to another, as it contains the potential to survive and to do things. But intention and one's incarnational lessons play into it as well. Owing money to someone doesn't necessarily mean you are in DEBT to them. It depends on the energy transfers that underlie the physical illusion.

"A mountain holds an echo deep inside. That's how I hold your voice."
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