10-15-2014, 02:42 PM
(10-15-2014, 02:25 PM)Diana Wrote:(10-15-2014, 02:06 PM)Unbound Wrote: You still have not answered why exactly it is not conducive to spiritual seeking? (Also, I would state here that I don't know what the extent of your knowledge is on magical and spiritual-cultural traditions, but I can assure you that there are numerous paths that do not in any way insist on vegetarianism or include that meat is negative to eat.)
I was taught through Gnostic alchemy that the red meats feed the vital energies of the bodies and yes are most certainly to be eaten in moderation. There is a process of transmutation that ALL energy entering the body goes through regardless of where it comes from. Food, of course, is the least effective for directly feeding the consciousness, with breathing and raw impressions being the most direct.
I would highly suggest taking a look at more Western esoteric views as honestly in my experience the huge focus on vegetarianism comes mostly from Eastern schools such as Hinduism, Buddhism and the like. (And even then, most of them include in their tantras the art of transmutation.)
Fair enough.
There are many paths. I really don't care about any of them at all. I follow my own path. I have, however, read a lot. I'm familiar with just about all of it. (I am very curious and like to be open to everything.)
I understand what you are saying. But it starts at point B (taking the substance into the body). Point A is: where and what was the substance and its purpose or life or destiny—before that.
I care about that part. I don't just care about me and what I am doing with all the items in the world as pertains to how I can use them for my own purposes. I think that might be a key difference between STO and STS.
As to eating meat not being conducive to spiritual seeking, let me put this another way. It depends on what you are seeking to evolve toward. Love, peace, beauty for all (STO), stop participating in cruelty to achieve it. The STS way, which is valid up to a point of evolution, feel free to use other-selves as you will.
I believe that in the pursuit of STO it requires the acceptance of all things, and so I accept the realities and the entities whom do not wish for love, peace, beauty for all things.
What is my path? To suggest my entire path of service to others is "negated" by meat-eating is ridiculous. To suggest that because I eat meat that I am not focused on STO is purely putting words in my mouth.
What bothers me the most about your perspective is that it is all based on a particular philosophy and this philosophy is treated like it is more or less fact.
Also, a great article here on vegetarianism and Buddhism.
http://engageddharma.com/practice/buddhists-eat-meat/
(10-15-2014, 02:39 PM)Diana Wrote:(10-15-2014, 02:09 PM)Unbound Wrote: What do you think happens to the souls of all the animals who are slaughtered? Are they just hoarded somewhere, traumatized and in need of healing?
I have no certain idea. I just don't want to contribute to suffering for so many reasons.
I would speculate that their souls will follow a path derived from the accumulated experience. This experience will now include torture, fear, pain, suffering, victimization . . .
What soul doesn't include that in their experience, especially as they move in to greater awareness of themselves as all things?
I agree, and I don't want to contribute to suffering either, but where we disagree on isn't on the principle, but on method.
(10-15-2014, 02:25 PM)Monica Wrote:(10-15-2014, 02:09 PM)Unbound Wrote: Once again, your insinuations as to my character with hints of "Well if you don't feel that way, and you don't care about the feelings, it's not my fault you're STS, blah blah blah" is obtuse and completely ridiculous.
I can only respond to what you say. You continually champion the 'well both paths are equally fine' mentality, and based on your own words, seem to not understand that causing suffering isn't cool. What am I supposed to think?
I never said you were STS. I actually don't even think you're STS. I have, however, observed a popular trend here at B4 towards the 'both paths are cool so don't bother choosing STO' mentality. Many people here at B4 seem to think that way. I'm not judging them; just stating my observation.
To me, it is a given that STO is the preferred path. I never said you were STS, but if you don't share my bias towards STO, then I have no judgment towards you, but it does explain why we aren't connecting on these concepts.
(10-15-2014, 03:35 AM)Folk-love Wrote: But people haven't made the choice it seems. It seems that this experiment has failed and all we have to show for it is an immense amount of suffering. The logos just seems like a big jerk from my limited perspective. What about all the other 3d planets in the universe? Do they have such a heavy veil? Eh whatever's
Agreed! I'm starting a campaign to petition the Logos to cancel the experiment.
(10-15-2014, 03:25 AM)Folk-love Wrote: What for? Experience? It seems that experience is valued over the well being of the inhabitants of the planet. Doesn't seem particularly loving to me. What kind of a parent does that.
Exactly. Sure, from the perspective of the Logos, it's all good, but from down here in the trenches, it sucketh.
I think the Logos needs a reminder of what it feels like down here. I'm hoping that if enough of us wake up, we can do something about it.
Actually, no, I am not championing the "both paths are valid" but I am thoroughly disagreeing with your assessment and interpretation as to the principles and structure of the STO path. You seemed convinced that your understanding is "right".