Bring4th

Full Version: Help in finding a way to justify flu vaccine
You're currently viewing a stripped down version of our content. View the full version with proper formatting.
This is more about coming to an understanding with life pertaining to the vaccination which is why I put it here instead of in the health forum.

Starting next year, my hospital and most around here will start requiring employees to get it. It used to be that if we declined, we could simply wear a mask around patients even though I've never done so because it's not like there is someone walking around checking. But next year we won't have this choice and I'm struggling to find acceptance in this.

I've been thinking and I wonder if I came at the angle that I'm protecting others, it would be sort of like a sacrifice for them that I put the vaccine into my body. Though I don't necessarily agree that such a vaccine prevents people from getting it along with believing that people get certain ailments as a lesson of sorts, I'm having a hard time getting passed the issue of being forced to do something so against my principles.
I'm an old guy, which colors my thinking on the subject. The idea of the flu vaccine is a catalyst, obviously, and your deciding whether is some of your response to it. If you skip the shot and catch the virus, that would be another catalysm bundle, no? If you survive that bout of flu, you would henceforward carry the immunity to that strain just as if you took the shot, so I say take it. Tongue

I get one every year cuz of my age and risk factors.
Hi Jeremy,

What a tough decision to have to face, and no amount of other people's advice will make it any easier for you. Perhaps following your heart will lead you to the perfect answer for both the wellbeing of your physical body, and the demands of your career. I wish you well with whatever you choose.
i'd probably quit over that

found an article about it: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/12/flu-vaccine-nurses_n_2464663.html
I'd consider quitting, too. Do you have any good alternatives if you do quit?
Thanks for all the comment everyone

No I don't have any alternatives as my career doesn't have any application outside of healthcare so ultimately I may have to cave. I simply have too many responsibilities to give up on my career like that. One of the issues that irks me though is that if I was a Jehovah witness or some other religious member where it's stated that it's against my religion, I'd be exempt yet my own personal beliefs are trumped. How and why they can give religious exemptions is beyond me and it's quite insulting that my personal beliefs aren't held to the same regard simply because I don't belong to an official religion.
(11-04-2014, 05:55 AM)Jeremy Wrote: [ -> ]Thanks for all the comment everyone

No I don't have any alternatives as my career doesn't have any application outside of healthcare so ultimately I may have to cave. I simply have too many responsibilities to give up on my career like that. One of the issues that irks me though is that if I was a Jehovah witness or some other religious member where it's stated that it's against my religion, I'd be exempt yet my own personal beliefs are trumped. How and why they can give religious exemptions is beyond me and it's quite insulting that my personal beliefs aren't held to the same regard simply because I don't belong to an official religion.

Religion is the remedy of choice for this. Isn't your religion the Law of One? Isn't forcing a vaccination on you a violation of your free will as a sovereign entity?

Courts have upheld the religious exemption for this type of thing fairly liberally.

Some definitions out of Black's Law dictionary 9th:

religion. A system of faith and worship usually involving
belief in a supreme being and usually containing a moral
or ethical code; esp., such a system recognized and
practiced by a particular church, sect, or denomination.
• In construing the protections under the Establishment
Clause and the Free Exercise Clause, courts have
interpreted the term religion quite broadly to include a
wide variety of theistic and nontheistic beliefs. [Cases:
Religious Societies 1.]

Religion Clause. In the Bill of Rights, the provision
stating that "Congress shall make no law respecting
an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free
exercise thereof." U.S. Const. amend. 1. • Some writers
use the plural form, "Religion Clauses," to mean both
the Establishment Clause and the Free Exercise Clause,
thus emphasizing the asserted common purpose ofthe
two provisions. [Cases: Constitutional Law C==', 1290-1428.]

Free Exercise Clause. (1950) The constitutional provision
(U.S. Const. amend. 1) prohibiting the government
from interfering in people's religious practices
or forms of worship. - Also termed Exercise Clause.
Cf. ESTABLISHMENT CLAUSE. [Cases: Constitutional
Law~1302.]

Establishment Clause. (1959) The First Amendment provision
that prohibits the federal and state governments
from establishing an official religion, or from favoring
or disfavoring one view of religion over another. U.S.
Const. amend. I. Cf. FREE EXERCISE CLAUSE. [Cases:
Constitutional Law 1294.]



Of course, there are many Christians who would believe that vaccinations are "The Mark of the Beast", so your average, garden variety Christian could claim the same religious exemption..
(11-04-2014, 05:55 AM)Jeremy Wrote: [ -> ]Thanks for all the comment everyone

No I don't have any alternatives as my career doesn't have any application outside of healthcare so ultimately I may have to cave. I simply have too many responsibilities to give up on my career like that. One of the issues that irks me though is that if I was a Jehovah witness or some other religious member where it's stated that it's against my religion, I'd be exempt yet my own personal beliefs are trumped. How and why they can give religious exemptions is beyond me and it's quite insulting that my personal beliefs aren't held to the same regard simply because I don't belong to an official religion.

Perhaps you could create your own religion, along with a paragraph that states your 'dis-belief' in vaccinations of any kind.

If I remember correctly, here in England during a census gathering exercise Angry under the 'religion' heading, thousands of people wrote JEDI KNIGHT Smile

Apparently Jedis made it onto the religion list - officially. Not sure how Jedis stand with regard to the dreaded jabs issue.
I agree to at least try to go with the religion aspect. If they refuse to see your choices as valid that's another can of worms I suppose, but it's worth a try.

I've conversed with two people so far who I know have gotten the flu shot this year: my grandma and my little brother (who actually got the nasal spray). Both of them fell ill - my little brother was EXTREMELY ill and weak, vomiting at school, too lethargic to even walk up the stairs at home. I'm glad I'm not in a position where I'm being forced to get one of those, because I'd throw a major fit.

Hey - don't they put like, eggs or something in the vaccine? You could say you are allergic to eggs, or have moral qualms about consuming eggs (vegan or whatnot), or something along those lines...

Good luck, this is a toughie.
Stand on your principles and in your integrity. You serve in this way too, by generating truth. Maybe this is a push to go elsewhere in your career. In my opinion, martyrdom and sacrifice is not service.

You will set an example to others, as well, by not caving in to control. It will let others see an example of a person thinking for himself.

I have lost work because I wouldn't illustrate certain things (fishing with a hook for example in a children's book). I also took a stand at a certain point when I had become vegetarian. I was very successful at this, and lost 2 clients—big ones—because I told them I wasn't going to illustrate meat anymore. This however, opened the door for me to get into the publishing arena, and I started doing children's books.

michael430

[deleted]
(11-04-2014, 06:57 PM)michael430 Wrote: [ -> ]Ps call me a conspiracy theorist but for over a decade I have come down with "Flu" every other year -this year pretty badly during a weekend with no contact with anyone. Quite sure it's rained down on us in chemtrails, a new form every other year.

wow, that's depressing

michael430

[deleted]
Flu vax doesn't reduce transmission. Forcing health workers to undergo vaccination is not evidence based. But let's be honest, mainstream medicine is rarely about evidence and more about what's in fashion.

I agree to refuse based on religious exemption. If that doesn't work, use a contraindication.

Unfortunately the Only Contraindication to flu vax is a history of anaphylaxis to influenza vaccination. If you are willing to lie, then that is the way out.
I agree, go w a religion, urs or someone else's.
You could also try to get the person (whoever is forcing you) to sign a form stating that if you take a vaccination against flu, that you are GUARANTEED not to get it - they will never give you such a guarantee because there is no such thing as immunity following vaccination ...... ask any GP what the % of full immunity is ...... then guess the answer Undecided

You will be told that if you contract the flu, then you will not get it as severely - so it supposedly lowers your chances of contracting it, and supposedly lessens the severity of the symptoms ...... IT DOES NOT PROTECT YOU FROM THE FLU ......


You always have choice, just make it an informed choice.
While I understand the topic of vaccines is a very hot button issue, I think this theme is consistent anywhere in our society and something we have all had to deal with. In previous work and in going to school as I grew up, I felt forced to do so many things against my will that it was basically crushing for my soul. Going to school, I felt torn apart by the idea that no matter how badly I didn't want to do something, my arm was twisted to the point of essentially forcing me to do it that I felt as though I were a slave. Not to compare going to public school to the same type of slave trade where a person is considered property and owned openly, but I felt my free will stripped from me completely. The same theme continued on with many jobs I had - I didn't want to rope people in to applying for credit when I knew they shouldn't; I didn't want to blindly follow orders for pointless tasks when I knew I could be doing something more productive that would benefit everyone; I didn't want to push a sale of a warranty on someone who clearly didn't want it; I didn't want to work during the holidays away from my family.

Yet all of these things were required of me for various reasons, but primarily because if I didn't have a job, how could I feed myself? How could I put a roof over my head?

Sometimes I rebelled against the "system" by simply doing what I wished and not submitting myself to someone else's will. Honestly, this hardly ever worked out for "the best." I would get in trouble at school and even more force was pushed down on me to submit. I'd get in trouble at work and not receive as much of a raise as I would have liked.

Like you are contemplating, I once quit a job over a principled matter and it didn't really work out well. It caused major turmoil in my life and put me in dire financial straits for quite some time. These experiences obviously aren't pleasant. I felt like I let down myself and the people in my life. I struggled to support myself and started relying on other people to take care of my basic needs.

Obviously, everything worked itself out eventually, and that type of experience is catalyst just like everything else, but what I mean to say is that this situation isn't too uncommon in our society, and we all seem to have to make some sort of choice. Imagining what could happen if you did quit your job, is it worth standing up for your principles? Do you feel like you can fulfill your service, whatever you believe that to be, if things don't go so great after you quit? Would it be easier to, willingly and consciously, accept a limitation that is being placed upon you in order to continue a greater service? Knowing you have the choice to leave or the choice to get a vaccine in itself is an exercise of free will, and so accepting the vaccine wouldn't necessarily be giving away your free will.

These questions would obviously be answered on an individual basis for each infinitely unique scenario. I'm not at all disagreeing with what everyone here has said, but I wanted to paint a different sort of picture. Quitting a job without another plan in place, while sometimes can work out for the best, will sometimes put us through a difficult situation and make us stumble for a while before we find our grounding again. I guess the difficult question is whether you think the stumbling may be worth it in order to take a stand.
Yea this is one of those issues that I also compared to many passed experiences where I felt I was forced to do something against my will yet I caved simply because the risk to benefit was far too great. I'm all for standing up for what I believe but there is a legitimate risk of losing my livelihood if I were to give up my career. My daughter would also lose her health insurance along with my ex being quite peeved at her lack of child support funds lol.
They can't fire u, it *is* a religious matter. I would fight them. But I'm a stubborn thing, for better & worse. But ur teaching ur daughter w ur actions. Do u want her to cave one day?

There's no right answer. Only u can decide. But this really irks me. Fucking vaccines.
(11-03-2014, 07:18 PM)Jeremy Wrote: [ -> ]I'm having a hard time getting passed the issue of being forced to do something so against my principles.

how exactly is it against your principles, in this case?