Bring4th

good points Icaro.

It's probably also worth noting, that even though we are reading the Ra Material online 30 years later, and it is a public document, the actual nature of its genesis was intensely personal.  That is, unlike a movie that is made to be seen by millions of people, this dialogue or conversation was between the Ra group and the Questioner.  The answers given were as universal as possible, and Don queried as to general principles, but at heart, this communications was a one-to-one personal chat.

So even though we are eavesdropping, and trying to learn directly from this document, it was essentially a teaching method between a 6d group and those 3 entities who drove the seeking process.

I confess to finding the Ra Material incredibly difficult to read and comprehend.  I get the gist (I think) of most of the sessions but that's about it.

I certainly wouldn't try and use the material as my own personal guidance as the language used is very difficult for me to comprehend.

What resonated so deeply for me was the All is One concept, Love, STS and STO.  I consider myself a deeply spiritual, Christian mystic and reading Carla's speeches feels quite often like they were written for and to me. 

This is hard to admit and is one of the reasons I don't post often; I don't feel qualified to comment on the Ra Material itself. 

(01-19-2015, 12:05 AM)Bring4th_Plenum Wrote: [ -> ]good points Icaro.

It's probably also worth noting, that even though we are reading the Ra Material online 30 years later, and it is a public document, the actual nature of its genesis was intensely personal.  That is, unlike a movie that is made to be seen by millions of people, this dialogue or conversation was between the Ra group and the Questioner.  The answers given were as universal as possible, and Don queried as to general principles, but at heart, this communications was a one-to-one personal chat.

So even though we are eavesdropping, and trying to learn directly from this document, it was essentially a teaching method between a 6d group and those 3 entities who drove the seeking process.

This is exactly how I feel about the Ra material.

(01-19-2015, 12:12 AM)Shawnna Wrote: [ -> ]I confess to finding the Ra Material incredibly difficult to read and comprehend.  I get the gist (I think) of most of the sessions but that's about it.

I certainly wouldn't try and use the material as my own personal guidance as the language used is very difficult for me to comprehend.

What resonated so deeply for me was the All is One concept, Love, STS and STO.  I consider myself a deeply spiritual, Christian mystic and reading Carla's speeches feels quite often like they were written for and to me. 

This is hard to admit and is one of the reasons I don't post often; I don't feel qualified to comment on the Ra Material itself. 

How did you feel when you read the part where he described Jehoshua?

(01-19-2015, 12:12 AM)Shawnna Wrote: [ -> ]I confess to finding the Ra Material incredibly difficult to read and comprehend.  I get the gist (I think) of most of the sessions but that's about it.

I certainly wouldn't try and use the material as my own personal guidance as the language used is very difficult for me to comprehend.

What resonated so deeply for me was the All is One concept, Love, STS and STO.  I consider myself a deeply spiritual, Christian mystic and reading Carla's speeches feels quite often like they were written for and to me. 

This is hard to admit and is one of the reasons I don't post often; I don't feel qualified to comment on the Ra Material itself. 

Do you ever read Q'uo, Shawna? It's (often mostly) Carla channeling and uses an ever so slightly more Christian bend with more conversational language.

https://thequochannelings.wordpress.com/

I like to just pick a random one to read from time to time.

(01-19-2015, 12:32 AM)Minyatur Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-19-2015, 12:12 AM)Shawnna Wrote: [ -> ]I confess to finding the Ra Material incredibly difficult to read and comprehend.  I get the gist (I think) of most of the sessions but that's about it.

I certainly wouldn't try and use the material as my own personal guidance as the language used is very difficult for me to comprehend.

What resonated so deeply for me was the All is One concept, Love, STS and STO.  I consider myself a deeply spiritual, Christian mystic and reading Carla's speeches feels quite often like they were written for and to me. 

This is hard to admit and is one of the reasons I don't post often; I don't feel qualified to comment on the Ra Material itself. 

How did you feel when you read the part where he described Jehoshua?

Having been exposed to many different Christian paths (Catholic, Mormon, Evangelical), I've come to what I consider to be a very unusual view of Jesus.  In particular, this session and my bold emphasis resonated with respect to Jesus:

Quote:Questioner: The instrument asked the following question: Ra has implied that the instrument is on a path of martyrdom, but since all die are we not all martyr to something? When, if ever, does martyrdom partake of wisdom?

Ra: I am Ra. This is a thoughtful query. Let us use as exemplar the one known as Jehoshua. This entity incarnated with the plan of martyrdom. There is no wisdom in this plan but rather understanding and compassion extended to its fullest perfection. The one known as Jehoshua would have been less than fully understanding of its course had it chosen to follow its will at any space/time during its teachings. Several times, as you call this measure, this entity had the possibility of moving towards the martyr’s place which was, for that martyr, Jerusalem. Yet in meditation this entity stated, time and again, “It is not yet the hour.” The entity could also have, when the hour came, walked another path. Its incarnation would then have been prolonged but the path for which it incarnated somewhat confused. Thusly, one may observe the greatest amount of understanding, of which this entity was indeed capable, taking place as the entity in meditation felt and knew that the hour had come for that to be fulfilled which was its incarnation.

It is indeed so that all mind/body/spirit complexes shall die to the third-density illusion; that is, that each yellow-ray physical-complex body shall cease to be viable. It is a misnomer to, for this reason alone, call each mind/body/spirit complex a martyr, for this term is reserved for those who lay down their lives for the service they may provide to others. We may encourage meditation upon the functions of the will.

(01-19-2015, 02:12 AM)Jade Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-19-2015, 12:12 AM)Shawnna Wrote: [ -> ]I confess to finding the Ra Material incredibly difficult to read and comprehend.  I get the gist (I think) of most of the sessions but that's about it.

I certainly wouldn't try and use the material as my own personal guidance as the language used is very difficult for me to comprehend.

What resonated so deeply for me was the All is One concept, Love, STS and STO.  I consider myself a deeply spiritual, Christian mystic and reading Carla's speeches feels quite often like they were written for and to me. 

This is hard to admit and is one of the reasons I don't post often; I don't feel qualified to comment on the Ra Material itself. 

Do you ever read Q'uo, Shawna? It's (often mostly) Carla channeling and uses an ever so slightly more Christian bend with more conversational language.

https://thequochannelings.wordpress.com/

I like to just pick a random one to read from time to time.

I have not read very much of the Quo channelings; I appreciate the link and suggestion!

(01-19-2015, 12:05 AM)Bring4th_Plenum Wrote: [ -> ]It's probably also worth noting, that even though we are reading the Ra Material online 30 years later, and it is a public document, the actual nature of its genesis was intensely personal.

That certainly is true, and there was a lot going on under the surface. Ra could sense what was really trying to be asked, and at times would scan their minds if necessary.

(01-19-2015, 12:12 AM)Shawnna Wrote: [ -> ]I confess to finding the Ra Material incredibly difficult to read and comprehend.

Wait until you get to the archetypal mind information   When I first read that stuff I was like yeah, never even gonna try to understand it. But over time it began to make sense.

i can't get my head around the archetypes either lol

(01-19-2015, 12:39 PM)Bluebell Wrote: [ -> ]i can't get my head around the archetypes either lol

Buy a tarot game and play with it a bit, then go back to the archetypes

I haven't started the 4th book and the archetypes yet, precisely because I had the feeling that I wasn't going to understand a thing yet . I've just read a little from the links in the web. Also I printed the cards and every now and then I look at them. I'll get to it soon enought, thought!

I always keep wondering how many of the things we read are closest to the idea that it is send to the mind of the channel and what is lost in translation. [font=Times New Roman]In an everyday conversation you can always get feedback if there's something you don't understand and there are still misunderstandings. So, when reading, I don't worry very much, I stick to the notion: keep what feels right and discard the rest (or leave it for later). [/font]

The difference in language from Ra alone to Q'uo is there. Also I find very interesting the diversity in the voices, from Q'uo to Laitos to Yadda (very funny, I love this one. In fact, all of them) to Ra and others. I get different feelings reading one or the other.
Is it possible that as we read we can feel the original sender somehow? Some kind of transmission? I don't know, maybe. Just as they say we can ask for them to join us during meditation, maybe the same can be asked during a meditative reading?


Well, just a few ideas I had going around my head on this subject.

Love to all guys!!

It think it just takes some time building up a working vocabulary of the Law of One in general, and once you're familiar with some concepts the archetypes are easily approachable.

As far as losing things in translation, that's sort of what I was trying to get at with this thread..the idea that there are unrevealed subtleties to certain statements that can only be discovered through feeling and intuition. The message is naturally limited by the perspective. Plenum pointed out the personal nature of the contact as well, so the expectations of the group towards the questions being asked and their distortions in general affects the message. An answer could easily contain personal resonance for them carrying a specific message, whereas it could mean something else entirely for another.

The barrier of spoken communication itself is something that I think is important to consider when attempting to understand many different types of spiritual texts. The mystical nature of spiritual understanding will always evade language.

An interesting issue this presents is the difficulty in translating something like the Law of One to another language. Words have different contexts and implications across languages, and there is often not a 1 to 1 translation of abstract ideas, so there is a delicate balance for Law of One translators in trying as hard as possible to keep Ra's intended communication intact without altering it too much. Translators have a very difficult task and it's really inspiring to me to see so many volunteers step forward to offer these translations.

It's what I like about the daoist tradition..it fully understood the irony of words.
 
I almost forgot! "16.50 That which fourth density is not: it is not of words, unless chosen."

(01-20-2015, 10:21 PM)Bring4th_Austin Wrote: [ -> ]The mystical nature of spiritual understanding will always evade language.

Bingo.

I find myself reading all manner of spiritual texts from the standpoint of whether or not it supports what I already 'know'. Many have fit very well, especially what I've read of Carl's speeches and most of the LOO.

(01-19-2015, 12:05 AM)Bring4th_Plenum Wrote: [ -> ]It's probably also worth noting, that even though we are reading the Ra Material online 30 years later, and it is a public document, the actual nature of its genesis was intensely personal.  That is, unlike a movie that is made to be seen by millions of people, this dialogue or conversation was between the Ra group and the Questioner.  The answers given were as universal as possible, and Don queried as to general principles, but at heart, this communications was a one-to-one personal chat.

So even though we are eavesdropping, and trying to learn directly from this document, it was essentially a teaching method between a 6d group and those 3 entities who drove the seeking process.

I agree. However, I would be remiss not to point out that they were fully aware many more people were going to read the resulting material.

Example:

2.1 Wrote:Questioner: I’m guessing that there are enough people who would understand what you are saying, interested enough, for us to make a book of communications with it and I wondered if you would agree to this, us making a book, and if so, I was thinking that possibly a bit of historical background on yourself would be in order. [Inaudible] question.

Ra: I am Ra. The possibility of communication, as you would call it, from the One to the One through distortion acceptable for meaning is the reason we contacted this group. There are few who will grasp, without significant distortion, that which we communicate through this connection with this mind/body/spirit complex. However, if it be your desire to share our communications with others we have the distortion towards a perception that this would be most helpful in regularizing and crystallizing your own patterns of vibration upon the levels of experience which you call the life. If one is illuminated, are not all illuminated? Therefore, we are oriented towards speaking for you in whatever supply of speakingness you may desire. To teach/learn is the Law of One in one of its most elementary distortions.

Also, they were clearly aware early on that the material was being published into a book (see session 13).

Furthermore, if Ra were only concerned with the 3 person group, they would have just given the unpublished healing material without any thought to who would see the information.

Great post, Icaro. Indeed I've found my own understanding of Ra's words deepen and evolve in accordance with my own evolution. The words seemed fixed, but they point to and reveal new layers of understanding as the self recognizes more of it self.

But if we weren't utterly reliant on language... say if a group were able to channel Ra without necessity of language (in fourth-density conditions), the perceptions received would probably make the Ra Contact words with which we're currently familiar seem a dust castle.

(01-19-2015, 12:05 AM)Bring4th_Plenum Wrote: [ -> ]It's probably also worth noting, that even though we are reading the Ra Material online 30 years later, and it is a public document, the actual nature of its genesis was intensely personal.  That is, unlike a movie that is made to be seen by millions of people, this dialogue or conversation was between the Ra group and the Questioner.  The answers given were as universal as possible, and Don queried as to general principles, but at heart, this communications was a one-to-one personal chat.

So even though we are eavesdropping, and trying to learn directly from this document, it was essentially a teaching method between a 6d group and those 3 entities who drove the seeking process.

I believe that both the L/L group and Ra were mindful that this wasn't strictly a personal and private conversation - they knew they were undertaking this on a "public" stage, as it were, and thus geared their conversation more or less for the benefit of listening others, but I nevertheless love your thought regarding eavesdropping.

That idea does shed light on the relationship of every reader (outside of Don, Carla, and Jim) to this information -- the conversation was indeed, at heart, universal, but also, like you note, intensely personal. A different questioner and different L/L group would have yielded a very different Ra Contact, not different in essence but in form, direction, and quantity/quality/type of content examined.

I think the Ra material has reached exactly the persons that were intended and will keep doing it. I do not think/feel that close to the eavesdropping concept. What would Ra have done if the original group had decided to keep the info channeled to themselves and not publish it? Would Ra  have stopped? I think so, or at least, look for another way or channel to get the info through. (this is supposed to be a conditional clause, so to speak for thinks lost in translation, so if the verbs are wrong I hope you can redo it in your head).

(01-20-2015, 10:21 PM)Bring4th_Austin Wrote: [ -> ]The barrier of spoken communication itself is something that I think is important to consider when attempting to understand many different types of spiritual texts. The mystical nature of spiritual understanding will always evade language.

An interesting issue this presents is the difficulty in translating something like the Law of One to another language. Words have different contexts and implications across languages, and there is often not a 1 to 1 translation of abstract ideas, so there is a delicate balance for Law of One translators in trying as hard as possible to keep Ra's intended communication intact without altering it too much. Translators have a very difficult task and it's really inspiring to me to see so many volunteers step forward to offer these translations.

I have the original and the translated text, but I read the original because of the abstract concepts. I prefer to read the original versions as much as I can (with fiction literature as well) The moment I find a bit that I really don't get a thing out of it, I'll go to the translated.

It's not only the words used, it's the literal and the not literal meaning, as well of the general concept behind. Also every language has its own music and frame of mind. For those of you that speak more than one language (no need for proficiency) will notice this different music. Try to say aloud a sentence in english, something very simple and plain in meaning. "I go to the store and buy a packet of peanuts" ejem, whatever you want, just to get the idea. Then do the same in other language. You'll notice that even the way you see and react to the world, external and internally, changes depending on the language you're using. It is very obvious when you read poetry, the original and the translated.

Translating a text like The Ra Material is a really difficult task, so I am, too, for giving a thumbs up for the ones who do it. I couldn't do it, it is hard enough for me to write a readable post in less that one hour! 

(01-22-2015, 09:16 AM)Nuria Luz Wrote: [ -> ]What would Ra have done if the original group had decided to keep the info channeled to themselves and not publish it? Would Ra  have stopped? I think so, or at least, look for another way or channel to get the info through.

We can't really know Ra's intentions, but there is a lot to suggest that they weren't concerned whether or not this information reached a wide audience. Things need to be expressed on an individual level in order for further balancing and refinement to occur. Ra has been going through their own learning process interacting with this planet as well. Beingness embodies all sorts of information.

But since reaching one reaches all, not being concerned with a wide audience is kind of ironic I guess. Buddha said "I and all beings everywhere have simultaneously realized liberation"..which seems to be where the great work begins. Then I think the focus becomes not what to teach, but how to appropriately teach, beginning a whole new level of learn/teaching. How to teach seems to be Ra's predicament as well.

(01-22-2015, 09:16 AM)Nuria Luz Wrote: [ -> ]I think the Ra material has reached exactly the persons that were intended and will keep doing it. I do not think/feel that close to the eavesdropping concept. What would Ra have done if the original group had decided to keep the info channeled to themselves and not publish it? Would Ra  have stopped? I think so, or at least, look for another way or channel to get the info through. (this is supposed to be a conditional clause, so to speak for thinks lost in translation, so if the verbs are wrong I hope you can redo it in your head).

The sense I got from this Q&A is that Ra didn't necessarily intend for L/L Research to publish the material publicly, but found it acceptable nonetheless. Understanding the intention to publish it publicly probably changed the spectrum of information they were able to share, but I don't think Ra would have stopped.

Quote:2.1 Questioner: I’m guessing that there are enough people who would understand what you are saying, interested enough, for us to make a book of communications with it and I wondered if you would agree to this, us making a book, and if so, I was thinking that possibly a bit of historical background on yourself would be in order. [Inaudible] question.

Ra: I am Ra. The possibility of communication, as you would call it, from the One to the One through distortion acceptable for meaning is the reason we contacted this group. There are few who will grasp, without significant distortion, that which we communicate through this connection with this mind/body/spirit complex. However, if it be your desire to share our communications with others we have the distortion towards a perception that this would be most helpful in regularizing and crystallizing your own patterns of vibration upon the levels of experience which you call the life. If one is illuminated, are not all illuminated? Therefore, we are oriented towards speaking for you in whatever supply of speakingness you may desire. To teach/learn is the Law of One in one of its most elementary distortions.

(01-22-2015, 09:16 AM)Nuria Luz Wrote: [ -> ]I do not think/feel that close to the eavesdropping concept. What would Ra have done if the original group had decided to keep the info channeled to themselves and not publish it? Would Ra  have stopped? I think so,

Though like Icaro indicated, we can only speculate as to Ra's intentions, I agree with Austin: I don't think Ra would have opted out of communication to Don, Carla, and Jim if if the L/L group never intended to publish/share the information.

Consider:

Quote:17.2 Ra: We, ourselves, do not feel an urgency for this information to be widely disseminated. It is enough that we have made it available to three, four, or five. This is extremely ample reward, for if one of these obtains fourth-density understanding due to this catalyst then we shall have fulfilled the Law of One in the distortion of service.

Quote:48.5 Ra: The audience brought about by Orion-type publicity is not seeded by seniority of vibration to a great extent. The audiences receiving teach/learnings without stimulus from publicity will be more greatly oriented towards illumination. Therefore, forget you the counting.

And big "hear hear" to that, Nuria Luz, thumbs up to translators!

In all honesty, there are still large chunks of the Ra Material I don't understand at all, particularly the scientific/mathematical descriptions of certain concepts. Even the simpler parts come off as somewhat flat to me, like a series of beads floating in space with no string connecting them. I know some people read Ra and feel an instant resonance, or even a love at first sight type of vibe, but to me, on the surface, it's an odd mish-mash of awkwardly-worded material.

However, since reading the material I have had what I can only describe as a constant influx of understanding pouring into my being. This understanding is not expressed in the words, yet it seems to flow through them. One could liken it to a subliminal message or a hidden trigger, purely energetic in nature, woven into a series of symbols (words) as complex as the circles you see drawn on the ground in arcane rituals. I feel that there are multiple layers to the material, and it is many things for many people, assisting on a number of levels, instead of just being a cut-and-dry, face value type of publication. To put it bluntly, the best stuff is found between the lines.

(01-25-2015, 12:24 PM)Yera Wrote: [ -> ]To put it bluntly, the best stuff is found between the lines.

It sure is. If language only assists in helping things become "illuminated somewhat," that leaves a lot to be perceived through other means. Since ineffable experiences are felt, feeling and the heart lead the way.

Yep, after reading the bits from Ra you all posted, I have to admit that it is much more likely that they woudn't have stoped. All right, I'm eating my words! (yummy). It's healthy every now and then, eating words keeps you humble .
I just have the feeling that the Ra material has come to my life at the right time, with the right words and in the right way (channelled info, non earth conciousness). I don't know about other people but It has been so perfect for me and the resonance so personal that I can't imagine a better way. I prefer not to keep with the "what if'" much more because, really, the possibilities are endless, but I like to think that Ra would have try to get the Law of One "across" some other way in case the contact would have not worked at that time (even if no one can know what the others will do, I know, I know).

But going back to the thread theme, if language has been an essential tool in 3D, now, in my opinion, it's beginning to be almost a drawback. So much connection through the net but so difficult to fully express an idea in all its subtleties (for me). I find it terribly frustrating. In person,  I can use my arms, face, etc (I use all kind of non-verbal language known to man) to help me express something, but still, even in person, there is something missing for me. I'm dying for telepathy to be a reallity. All in time, as always.
We can be sure that there were things lost in the transmition from Ra. So I supose that with time, when telepathy develops, we can ask Ra for the missing bits.

Love, everyone! 

I view the Ra material as a wanderer awakening tool, if it is lacking you can always channel your own questions.

For a non-wanderer it simply goes to deep into 5-6D lessons and so I share with people what they are in the process of learning and not trying to obliterate their conception of this world. No one can escape these lessons and they will come to understand them in their own time one step at a time.

(01-26-2015, 02:19 PM)Nuria Luz Wrote: [ -> ]It's healthy every now and then, eating words keeps you humble .
I just have the feeling that the Ra material has come to my life at the right time, with the right words and in the right way (channelled info, non earth conciousness). I don't know about other people but It has been so perfect for me and the resonance so personal that I can't imagine a better way. I prefer not to keep with the "what if'" much more because, really, the possibilities are endless, but I like to think that Ra would have try to get the Law of One "across" some other way in case the contact would have not worked at that time (even if no one can know what the others will do, I know, I know).

I had to eat my words today and had you not used that phrase earlier, it would have went over my head..and it was humbling   But really, you were right with your original assumption about attempting to get the information through.."1.1 However, we then felt the great responsibility of staying in the capacity of removing the distortions and powers that had been given to the Law of One. We will continue in this until your, shall we say, cycle is appropriately ended. If not this one, then the next. We are not a part of time and, thus, are able to be with you in any of your times."

I think we all eagerly await telepathy! Though I imagine it's nothing such as hearing a voice, but rather a sort of instant emotional impression.

I think that Don, even after getting "permission" from Ra to publish, wanted the information to suit himself and those like him more than "the average 3D-er." That was clear from his questions. On some level he/they knew that this stuff would be very helpful to those coming after their group. I'm still rereading those books decades after getting them and continue to find good, fresh info from them. Likely the Material best meets the needs of Wanderers and the 3D4D hybrids that are arriving these days.

(01-25-2015, 12:24 PM)Yera Wrote: [ -> ]In all honesty, there are still large chunks of the Ra Material I don't understand at all, particularly the scientific/mathematical descriptions of certain concepts. Even the simpler parts come off as somewhat flat to me, like a series of beads floating in space with no string connecting them. I know some people read Ra and feel an instant resonance, or even a love at first sight type of vibe, but to me, on the surface, it's an odd mish-mash of awkwardly-worded material.

This is something that stirs up some of my own personal distortions and insecurities surrounding the material. There is such a massive contrast between what I see in the material and what 99.99% of the world probably sees in its words. And it isn't a matter of intelligence or comprehension of language, as many intelligent and linguistically talented people, such as Yera, simply do not see what I see when they read Ra's words. And most of those people probably would not be as understanding towards the material as Yera.

I recently re-read an early rejection letter received by L/L Research by a publisher and there was a part which makes me laugh but also makes me sad because of this insecurity I have. It says:

Quote:No entity that wreaks such havoc with the English language is going to ingratiate himself with the general reading public. This has all the denseness of THE NEW ENGLAND JOURNAL OF MEDICINE, or the JOURNAL OF ENGLISH AND GERMAN PHILOLOGY, or a Ph.D. dissertation on epistemology - but it's also so void of information - of content - that it makes a reader positively squirm with impatience.

I obviously don't blame the critic offering his very straight-forward truth, especially considering that I've seen many people deride the material on similar (and less eloquently put) terms. I've seen it described as LSD-addled ramblings, a scattering of meaningless new age jargon, and other such kindless words. 

This reception with the massive majority of the public brings up catalyst in me that makes me feel like such an outsider, and makes me feel insecure about the magnetism I feel towards this material. I feel a small amount of humiliation in the fact that this text remains the most significant, poetic, and ingeniously crafted collection of words I have ever read. The Law of One really cracked my spiritual shell, but even after I expanded my spiritual search and continued reading spiritual and philosophical texts from varying sages, masters, and cultures, there is absolutely nothing I have read that speaks so eloquently of higher truths than the Law of One. Really, nothing has come close.

What will likely remain the most significant thing to me in my own journey and world would be ridiculed by the scholars and intellectuals of our society, and there is just something about that which makes me feel crappy. I know that, ideally, it shouldn't affect me. I wish I had the confidence to say that I didn't care what the rest of the world thinks about my own beliefs. But there is a desire in me to integrate into society in such a way that I feel my affinity for the Law of One would prohibit.

This post is sort of tangential and personal, but I think it ultimately comes down to that language barrier. Ra spoke in such a way that a vast majority of the population here on Earth will see absolutely nothing worthy in their words. Why do I see it? What is it I am seeing? How can something be so absolutely significant to me, and speak on such an elevated level, yet look like just word salad to so many others (many who possess greater intelligence than I do)?