To add some needed context, I'd like to say that I first began reading the Ra material when I was 17 and a freshman in college in 1998. My mother suggested the books to me and I have no idea as to why, at the time, I felt the urge to read the first book. I was in college, looking for a girlfriend and i had plenty of homework and not enough freetime to party so casual reading was something I enjoyed much as I did not own a TV nor feel any need to. For some reason, I took the time (which is significant because I started out in the honors program which involved a heavy load of reading) to read the Ra Material. Part of what helped is because I had a good friend (an Indian Krishnan) who also became interested. We each had are own copy, but slowly he went off track and became somewhat schizophrenic (he is now on meds). He eventually showed sexual attraction to me which I found disagreeable so I withdrew from friendship knowing it was forevermore imbalanced (too extreme).
Anyway, that situation provided an opportunity for eventual wisdom. I realized that there is fate/calling. I realized that there is partnership - AND SOME OF IT IS TEMPORARY AND NO LESS GOOD. And that depression can pass as quickly as it sets in. And that LOVE is truly the answer. Now we have the context to begin a discussion about suicide.
Suicide is necessary in only the most extreme or unique situations (maybe 0.00013% of actual cases/reports). Suicide can be considered OK as a last option when you are 100% certain that the only alternative (must be tortuous, and agreed upon by all, in nature) is going to cause more pain without doubt. That being said, people who kill themselves irritate me spiritually, mentally and emotionally. Why? Killing yourself is selfish. It makes you feel that you are so central, that you are the problem and answer to your problem. If you commit suicide, you are not thinking about the great burden you are placing on others. If you do think abou the burden and go through with the act as an attention grab, you are sociopathic and just need some more teaching from one of the millions that has gone through exactly what you have. If you are ready to kill yourself, you are FEEDING your negative emotions and STARVING your positive ones - I feel no mercy for self-infliction ( just pity and compassion). You need to choose to get it together like we all do, or face the consequence. AND, what is the consequence of suicide? From what I have studied SPIRITUALLY about suicide that has stuck with me is that you must REPEAT the lesson you were meant to process that caused you to feel driven to suicide. Therefore, I carry a bitter feeling to those who commit suicide as I feel it is taking the easy way out. And we all know the easy path isn't always your path... Thoughts?
Hello nuetral333. I appreciate the emotional honesty.
In reply I would ask if you have ever been confused? Have you ever not been sure of what was true? What choice was the best choice? What was the difference between right and wrong? Who you were and where you were going and why you were living and why you hurt so much?
When you look around at this world, do you see how people may become confused in a place such as this?
Is the general conditioning each of us receives from an early age telling us an empowering story of serving others and finding our own divinity? Is it helping us feel connected to the whole and find our place in society? Or is that conditioning focused on reinforcing the separate, isolated individual whose worth, meaning, and satisfaction depend on acquisition of materials goods, or status, or pleasurable circumstance? Is the conditioning unified in any way, or does it smack us from a disorienting variety of contradictory, fragmentary sources?
Have you noticed the emotional damage and great traumas people suffer without adequate tools for subsequent processing, integration, and healing? Do you perceive that people are generally aware of and have access to effective healing modalities?
Do people always receive the love they need?
In the metaphysical studies, has consideration of the veil (which intentionally hides the truth from our conscious vision) yielded any fruit? What have you found are the effects of the illusion?
Is it understandable that, under these particular conditions, mind/body/spirit complexes sometimes get hopelessly spun around and lose their way?
What, then, might be a light to help anchor and orient those in the grip of confusion and suffering?
The missteps in the night are, oh, so easy.
Don't carry bitter feelings, they are your other-selves. They are troubled souls stuck in the claws of darkness, unable to see the light and beauty of this world.
IMO, there is not anything wrong with one committing suicide, it is an experience to the Creator and not a loss of Creator in any way. Also what if suicide is part of the lesson the soul needs to experience?
Coming from someone who has considered suicide many times, I will say that enough torture, be it physical or emotional, will make anyone long for death. I have experienced both a condition that caused me excruciating physical agony for thirteen years and the deepest of deep chronic depression (connected to a whole web of emotional issues I won't get into here), and have considered suicide seriously on several occasions. There have been a few times when the only thing keeping me from doing it was that I lacked access to a gun and didn't have the stomach to use a more drawn out method like razor blades or pills. A few other times those I loved had me locked up for my own safety. During these times I considered what my death would do to my family, friends and husband. One of my own best friends killed himself a few years ago and it made me acutely aware of the pain I would cause, but my own pain was so severe that my ability to care was simply blunted. The thought of relief overrode all logic, reason and even compassion. A starving person will revert to animal behavior in order to procure food, and a person in tremendous pain will have a similar primitive response.
I'm glad that I never managed to kill myself, and I would certainly discourage anyone considering the option, but I find your words to be completely lacking in compassion and empathy. To think that you could understand another person's pain enough to judge their decisions takes a lot of nerve, in my opinion. I wish I could bring my friend back, but I wouldn't dare claim to understand what he was going through enough to decide his personal fate for him. It sounds to me like you're just jealous because you don't want to face your own lessons, and you're looking for people who did a crappier job than you to try to make yourself feel better.
To those who wish to die I think they should still be afforded the choice.
The first law is freewill
The second law is love but love without freewill isn't love at all.
The third law is wisdom, wisdom without love isn't wisdom at all.
Only when the individual allows for the love to be experienced will it arrive and through love wisdom dawns as continuing experience.
My brother committed suicide. After many years, I miss him even more than when he first died. But I was never angry with him. I was only sad beyond measure. I honored his choice. He had his reasons and as Yera said, we can't know another's pain.
Even the most superficial, spoiled people have pain. I wouldn't attempt to judge that pain. That old saying: don't judge another until you've walked a mile in their moccasins, applies here.
If you feel committing suicide is selfish because of the pain it would cause, then isn't it also selfish that the focus becomes the pain of those left behind? So we would make a person stay here just because we don't want the pain of their loss?
I don't think suicide is selfish. It's a hard thing to do.
If you are one of the very rare and lucky souls who are able to open the gateway to intelligent infinity, than there's no problem.
(02-24-2015, 05:16 PM)darklight Wrote: [ -> ]If you are one of the very rare and lucky souls who are able to open the gateway to intelligent infinity, than there's no problem.
Ra said that many if not all of those who did open the gateway chose to stay here. So I guess there's no real way out.
34.
2 Questioner: Thank you very much. We’ll start general questioning now. You stated at an earlier time that penetration of the eighth level or intelligent infinity level allows a mind/body/spirit complex to be harvested if it wishes at any time/space during the cycle. When this penetration of the eighth level occurs what does the entity who penetrates this experience? Can you tell me this?
Ra: I am Ra. The experience of each entity is unique in perception of intelligent infinity. Perceptions range from a limitless joy to a strong dedication to service to others while in the incarnated state. The entity which reaches intelligent infinity most often will perceive this experience as one of unspeakable profundity. However, it is not usual for the entity to immediately desire the cessation of the incarnation. Rather the desire to communicate or use this experience to aid others is extremely strong.
(02-24-2015, 05:29 PM)Gemini Wolf Wrote: [ -> ] (02-24-2015, 05:16 PM)darklight Wrote: [ -> ]If you are one of the very rare and lucky souls who are able to open the gateway to intelligent infinity, than there's no problem.
Ra said that many if not all of those who did open the gateway chose to stay here. So I guess there's no real way out.
From what I have understand is that only a handful people are able to do that kind of magic. I believe those people won't stay here in 3D, they have seen too much beyond the veil.
It is very weird why the Confederation encourage harvestable souls to stay in 3D. They can send wanderers to do the enlightenment job for mother Earth and all the people.
Could this be another Orion trick? They are really masters of lies.
Life in 3d is painful and sometimes unbearable.
I am sad for those who take their own lives and those that lost them. I can't judge it as selfish or courageous. I think there is always something to live for and suicide to me represents deep despair and a loss of hope and faith.
I am pretty sure I committed suicide in a past life, many people have. I don't think we are obligated to return here to " learn our lessons". We can stay disincarnate if we want. When we decide to come into a body it is with a purpose.
I think the lessons we learn are given in Book IV , the archetypes. We are mastering being human, embodying our full mind/ body / spirit potential. It's like learning to play a musical instrument. I just picked up my son's guitar 6 weeks ago and started to learn how to play. It's fun, I am really enjoying it. I realize how much practice I need to play well. There is so much involved in getting my body to channel a beautiful tone through my guitar. My fingers need to strengthen, my coordination, nervous system and brain neurons and synapses, it all needs lots of practice.
In 3d with the tremendous suffering that is here, we do not easily experience our true nature of joy/ light/ love. Especially with an open heart, the pain of others is felt. That is why we come here, to help all of us through the pain, to change and transform ourselves and our society so that we can embody our true nature with ease and grace.
(02-24-2015, 05:50 PM)darklight Wrote: [ -> ]It is very weird why the Confederation encourage harvestable souls to stay in 3D. They can send wanderers to do the enlightenment job for mother Earth and all the people.
Could this be another Orion trick? They are really masters of lies.
They are masters of lies, but it's not a trick
You/ we came here because we wanted to help, we volunteered. It's not karma or learning lessons, just compassion and being willing to sacrifice ( limit ourselves) to help those who need help
6th chakra opens the 6th dimension, and from that you will reach the 7th dimension. The 7th dimension is a gateway wormhole, from that you will reach the 8th dimension, the white light. That makes sense, white is wholeness.
darklight, do you think that after this life some of us will return to 7th or 8th density?
(02-24-2015, 06:30 PM)Gemini Wolf Wrote: [ -> ]darklight, do you think that after this life some of us will return to 7th or 8th density?
If a wanderer is a late 6th density of origin. it could be possible that he or she will graduate to the 7th density.
To graduate to the 8th? I don't know, since there is no information about 7th density wanderers. Ra speaks only 4th, 5th and 6th.
(02-24-2015, 05:16 PM)darklight Wrote: [ -> ]If you are one of the very rare and lucky souls who are able to open the gateway to intelligent infinity, than there's no problem.
I don't really see where luck comes into it. Extreme determination and vibrational superiority, yes, luck no.
We do have help though, so I guess we could "count ourselves lucky" to have them assist us.
(02-24-2015, 05:50 PM)darklight Wrote: [ -> ] (02-24-2015, 05:29 PM)Gemini Wolf Wrote: [ -> ] (02-24-2015, 05:16 PM)darklight Wrote: [ -> ]If you are one of the very rare and lucky souls who are able to open the gateway to intelligent infinity, than there's no problem.
Ra said that many if not all of those who did open the gateway chose to stay here. So I guess there's no real way out.
From what I have understand is that only a handful people are able to do that kind of magic. I believe those people won't stay here in 3D, they have seen too much beyond the veil.
It is very weird why the Confederation encourage harvestable souls to stay in 3D. They can send wanderers to do the enlightenment job for mother Earth and all the people.
Could this be another Orion trick? They are really masters of lies.
Almost all of us are here by choice, if one is a wanderer than they have already seen beyond the veil and choose to incarnate into 3D.
I don't think most people who pierce the veil in 3D see that as the end game - you are just that much more able to help raise the vibrational frequency as a whole after you have reached harvestable levels
while incarnated.
"Opening the gateway to intelligent infinity" is really synonymous with "learning to live in full faith of the Creator".
Quote:You are precisely correct in your understanding of the congruency of faith and intelligent infinity; however, one is a spiritual term, the other more acceptable perhaps to the conceptual framework distortions of those who seek with measure and pen.
Quote:To define intelligent apart from infinity is difficult, for these two vibration complexes equal one concept. It is much like attempting to divide your sound vibration concept, faith, into two parts. We shall attempt to aid you however.
Quote:Again, the violet emanation is, in this context, a resource from which, through indigo, intelligent infinity may be contacted. The radiation thereof will not be violet ray but rather green, blue, or indigo depending upon the nature of the type of intelligence which infinity has brought through into discernible energy.
The green-ray type of radiation in this case is the healing, the blue-ray the communication and inspiration, the indigo that energy of the adept which has its place in faith.
(02-25-2015, 02:12 AM)Ashim Wrote: [ -> ] (02-24-2015, 05:16 PM)darklight Wrote: [ -> ]If you are one of the very rare and lucky souls who are able to open the gateway to intelligent infinity, than there's no problem.
I don't really see where luck comes into it. Extreme determination and vibrational superiority, yes, luck no.
We do have help though, so I guess we could "count ourselves lucky" to have them assist us.
Or simply a different time and space, all paths lead to the One, none is luckier than any other. The help we receive today, we will give to others and even then will we receive a different kind of help for that is how infinity is. There will always be something above working on the greater parts of Order and something bellow working on the minor parts of Order, the only difference between the two is time they are in.
To go back about suicide, ever wondered that the cause of suicide might be actually us? Well not just suicide, but a STS planet such as this.
Quote:The Key to Above and Bellow - Emerald Tablets of Thoth
The consciousness below thee is ever-expanding
in different ways from those known to thee.
Aye, it, though in space-time below thee,
is ever growing in ways that are different from
those that were part of the ways of thine own.
For know that it grows as a result of thy growth
but not in the same way that thou didst grow.
The growth that thou had and have in the present
have brought into being a cause and effect.
No consciousness follows the path of those before it,
else all would be repetition and vain.
Each consciousness in the cycle it exists in
follows its own path to the ultimate goal.
Each plays its part in the Plan of the Cosmos.
Each plays its part in the ultimate end.
The farther the cycle, the greater its
knowledge and ability to blend the Law of the whole
To go back about suicide, ever wondered that the cause of suicide might be actually us? Well not just suicide, but a STS planet such as this.
This is not a STS planet.
Where did you get that idea from?
(02-25-2015, 02:48 PM)Ashim Wrote: [ -> ]
To go back about suicide, ever wondered that the cause of suicide might be actually us? Well not just suicide, but a STS planet such as this.
This is not a STS planet.
Where did you get that idea from?
Well not a STS planet as it'd need to reach 4D STS, but it is a much STS polarized 3D world.
I can't imagine being the Logos of a 4D STS planet, and experiencing all the negativity on it.
(02-25-2015, 03:22 PM)Minyatur Wrote: [ -> ] (02-25-2015, 02:48 PM)Ashim Wrote: [ -> ]
To go back about suicide, ever wondered that the cause of suicide might be actually us? Well not just suicide, but a STS planet such as this.
This is not a STS planet.
Where did you get that idea from?
Well not a STS planet as it'd need to reach 4D STS, but it is a much STS polarized 3D world.
3rd density is by nature non-polarized.
(02-25-2015, 03:27 PM)Ashim Wrote: [ -> ] (02-25-2015, 03:22 PM)Minyatur Wrote: [ -> ] (02-25-2015, 02:48 PM)Ashim Wrote: [ -> ]
To go back about suicide, ever wondered that the cause of suicide might be actually us? Well not just suicide, but a STS planet such as this.
This is not a STS planet.
Where did you get that idea from?
Well not a STS planet as it'd need to reach 4D STS, but it is a much STS polarized 3D world.
3rd density is by nature non-polarized.
I was speaking of the people not the planet itself tough if I remember correctly Ra said that in 3D the planet polarizes as the people polarize it. The quote was also about newer conciousnesses that can't be like those that were before hence that you can't have only very STO worlds. I love this planet, it has much darkness but out of this darkness will grow light and there is much to learn here.
(02-25-2015, 03:33 PM)Minyatur Wrote: [ -> ] (02-25-2015, 03:27 PM)Ashim Wrote: [ -> ] (02-25-2015, 03:22 PM)Minyatur Wrote: [ -> ] (02-25-2015, 02:48 PM)Ashim Wrote: [ -> ]
To go back about suicide, ever wondered that the cause of suicide might be actually us? Well not just suicide, but a STS planet such as this.
This is not a STS planet.
Where did you get that idea from?
Well not a STS planet as it'd need to reach 4D STS, but it is a much STS polarized 3D world.
3rd density is by nature non-polarized.
I was speaking of the people not the planet itself tough if I remember correctly Ra said that in 3D the planet polarizes as the people polarize it. The quote was also about newer conciousnesses that can't be like those that were before hence that you can't have only very STO worlds. I love this planet, it has much darkness but out of this darkness will grow light and there is much to learn here.
I think we are an example for countless other worlds.
Like Bashar said, they look at us and think "...if they can do it...".
I think if you suicide, then you will start experiencing all the pain you put others through, plus the pain of not having completed your lessons. It's emotionally tough. And you'll be more sensitive emotionally than you are in this life.
(02-25-2015, 04:22 PM)Gemini Wolf Wrote: [ -> ]I think if you suicide, then you will start experiencing all the pain you put others through, plus the pain of not having completed your lessons. It's emotionally tough. And you'll be more sensitive emotionally than you are in this life.
As far as I am aware the suicide is never part of the 'life plan' of any being.
It is a 'mistake', although, in the larger perspective, there are none.
Much of the work I perform involves beings that suicide.
They are met with great compassion as they often experience guilt on realization of what exactly they have done and what pain they have inflicted on others by their (often selfish) choices.
That's a noble work you do. You must have a lot of compassion for them.
(02-25-2015, 04:33 PM)Gemini Wolf Wrote: [ -> ]That's a noble work you do. You must have a lot of compassion for them.
It's the sort of work you do when you realize yourself that you are an eternal being of light, that you do not die.