Bring4th

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I think there is some part of us that would like to have a Teacher (or a so-called Master) help guide us on our journey.  And so we often place faith or an in-ordinate amount of trust in an external figure.

And when those figures prove fallible, and fail us in some sense of moral or ethical expectations, then we are quite understandably angry.

This seems to have happened to many guru's and Indian Ashrams over the years.  Embroiled in scandal - over money, sexual exploitation, or just unscrupulous behaviour.

have you ever had a guru?  did you believe in David Wilcock, and then became disappointed for whatever reason?

I know it took me a few years to process my mistrust of that guy, and what I perceived as his manipulative practices regards Disclosure and the insider information about a changing of the NWO etc.

But that's all gone now, and I can appeciate him as a fellow human being on his own journey, in his own way trying to navigate his experience.

Thread prompted by the recent Rajneesh/Osho discussion.
I think every Guru or teacher is a human being that is possible of flaws. I think often the problem is the student who puts the teacher on such a high illusionary pedestal that causes the problem rather than strictly the teachings of the Guru.

I believe the root cause of this behavior comes from our parents, who we at a very young age tend to think of as almost like Gods who can do anything only to eventually have them do something that makes us lose some trust in them or feel abandoned. This is really a reflection of the illusion of separation from self and creator.

I have never had a Guru personally , i did see a Lama once who gave me fairly general advice such as to be mindful and compassionate. I have been a follower of David for almost 10 years and enjoy his work greatly. He's not prefect but has done a great service in my opinion. I think he became the catalyst to blame our negative emotions on from the 2012 event which i think most people bought into to some degree or another, rather than to accept them and grow from the experience.

In regards to disclosure i think its clear to anyone who has been watching the world that it is indeed underway , every week new stories come out that before would be taboo fringe subject on the internet into main stream media. However the real truth is that until we start to act in a loving manner we are never going to see contact or full disclosure or anything in relation to that. However we are getting there i believe.

The real disclosure is always an internal one the disclosure of the veil, the path that starts and ends in mystery.

I would also add that freewill also pays a large part in the process.
(03-01-2015, 07:42 AM)Matt1 Wrote: [ -> ]I think every Guru or teacher is a human being that is possible of flaws. I think often the problem is the student who puts the teacher on such a high illusionary pedestal that causes the problem rather than strictly the teachings of the Guru.

I agree with this. If the relationship begins with the idea that the guru is better than others, or higher, it is flawed from that point in the mind of the student. The guru, or teacher, may have had more experience of certain things, but the student does as well in other areas (as all our experiences are unique). No one is better than another, and nothing is better than anything else. To believe so is human egocentric thinking, in my opinion.

A person can learn from virtually anyone or anything. I think the inherent problem with the guru/disciple relationship is that it typically includes adulation of the guru, or putting him/her on the pedestal. This sort of thinking will keep the student dis-empowered, which creates a paradox, as the student purports to learn from the guru to become empowered. But by creating the separation—student and "higher-up" guru—it anchors the student "below" the guru.

The following is an analogy I like, as I have had this conversation about gurus many times, and there is the argument: why NOT follow the guru to another stage of enlightenment since they have already reached it and know the shortest and easiest way?

An experienced guide may know the shortest way through a forest. Many people will follow the guide blindly and reach the other side easily. There are those who want to find their own way. At first glance this seems counterproductive, since following a guide who knows the way would be more logical. The ones who find their own way may listen to other's ideas and opinions and this may enlighten their path, but since they don't give their power over to anyone else, they either consider the advice good for them or not and continue. They eventually get through the forest, and it may have taken them much longer than the guide's path, as the guide had already been through it before. On the other side is a being such as Jesus. When the blind followers see Jesus, they are awed and adulate and put him on a pedestal as they did the guide, who knew what they didn't know. But the ones who forged their own paths meet Jesus and they give each other high fives as equals, and Jesus says, "It's great you made it! So good to see you."


 
(03-07-2015, 08:17 AM)purple45 Wrote: [ -> ]I have never had a Guru personally , i did see a Lama once who gave me fairly general advice such as to be mindful and compassionate. I have been a follower of David for almost 10 years and enjoy his work greatly. He's not prefect but has done a great service in my opinion. I think he became the catalyst to blame our negative emotions on from the 2012 event which i think most people bought into to some degree or another, rather than to accept them and grow from the experience.???

(03-01-2015, 07:42 AM)Matt1 Wrote: [ -> ]I have never had a Guru personally , i did see a Lama once who gave me fairly general advice such as to be mindful and compassionate. I have been a follower of David for almost 10 years and enjoy his work greatly. He's not prefect but has done a great service in my opinion. I think he became the catalyst to blame our negative emotions on from the 2012 event which i think most people bought into to some degree or another, rather than to accept them and grow from the experience.

[Image: spam2.jpg]
is spam good?
(03-07-2015, 02:02 PM)Bluebell Wrote: [ -> ]is spam good?
i've never tried it either
Spam is good, i had it when i used to eat meat. It was brought over here during the war. But more importantly why are we posting about spam rather than fallen Gurus. We should try and keep threads on track as much as possible.
lol...thanks Bring4th_Matt1!

i think it's fine to let a thread go off track bc it can easily be split & become a new thread.
Spam is good with Tabasco sauce.
Quote:Despite convincing evidence, it doesn't stand for "something posing as meat." The company's official explanation is that it's short for "spiced ham," but that wasn't always its party line. Hormel has also stated in the past that the name stands for "shoulder of pork and ham," although we can sort of understand why it wouldn't necessarily want to drive home the whole "shoulder" thing today.
(03-07-2015, 03:41 PM)isis Wrote: [ -> ]lol...thanks Bring4th_Matt1!

i think it's fine to let a thread go off track bc it can easily be split & become a new thread.

ruh roh don't let the mods hear that  Tongue
There are individuals I've idolized in the past, only to experience firsthand the folly of putting others on pedestals. I can't think of a single individual, on this world or another, whose words I wouldn't take with a grain of salt.
(03-07-2015, 10:49 PM)Bluebell Wrote: [ -> ]
(03-07-2015, 03:41 PM)isis Wrote: [ -> ]lol...thanks Bring4th_Matt1!

i think it's fine to let a thread go off track bc it can easily be split & become a new thread.

ruh roh don't let the mods hear that  Tongue

[Image: images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSG-VhjKzYbvfbPVKu9nXF...HYKjmfysBw]
I put Graham Hancock on a really high pedestal & I don't foresee me ever taking him down. But should the time come where he does something to make me want to take him down I don't think removing him will be a big deal for me & I doubt I'll regret having put him up there.
my idols get to be fallible too. a mistake doesn't mean all the inspiration & wisdom u learned was wrong, just means they r human.
the idea of the guru is the excuse of the student not to take it at face value in not seeing another self but rather seeing an elevated other self. the point is to honor thyself and to honor the other self in the accordance with the law of free will, everyone has their own distortions to manage and learn from, that is why we are incarnate now.
to expect perfection is to expect not having needing to be incarnate in the now in this density.

i don't think it's wise to say anyone is perfect, and for a guru to say they are is far from the truth. rejecting the shadow self fuels the separation further. it isn't until you take it back that it can actually fall away. can you sit and feel comfortable following an imperfection to reach perfection?

If you had to reach perfection and were trying to learn from the perfect man. how would they teach you if they could learn nothing from you. the process would be as inorganic as lemons and peas.