Bring4th

I just finished watching a couple of episodes of this show, and am fascinated by how it's told.

Without getting into spoilers, it's about how we can assume the worst about someone (because of their past history), and automatically inpute negative intentions on their motivations, in the absence of any other information.  The show deliberately points the narrative that way - that a lack of forgiveness means holding onto past grudges.

On some level, I can appreciate the wisdom in being able to see someone's history, and say that they are likely to repeat bad mistakes.  Especially if we've given them multiple chances in the past, and they continue to fail to match up to their talk of changed behaviour.

And yet, there might come a time when they are genuinely ready to change, and it's totally sincere, and they're totally ready to commit to change, and in the face of discouragement and suspicion from family members and others, they fall back into old patterns.  Of course, there's a certain responsibility in being able to make change for oneself, and being able to stick to it.  But for someone who has had a past history of errors, and doubts themselves to the core, the lack of support from others who might be in a position to help is enough to dampen a candle of dim light.

I witnessed a similiar theme playing out in Once Upon a Time, late in season 2.

of course, at some level, this is putting a certain guilt factor on these who have given the same person many many chances to reform in the past.

But what if this next chance, they want to change, but are mocked to their face, and lose heart?

Again, I want to emphasise that it is a rather artificial scenario being painted, and one that is deliberately slanted to drive home a point.  We can't really know *how* we would make a decision unless we are living the circumstances ourselves.  And so it would be appropriate catalyst if it came up in one's own life.  However, for a bystander, it's an interesting scenario to consider.  And raises potential questions on when we might have given up on someone maybe one moment too early

(04-30-2015, 02:53 AM)Bring4th_Plenum Wrote: [ -> ]  We can't really know *how* we would make a decision unless we are living the circumstances ourselves. 

If you are speaking of someome in particular, in their circumstances you're them and as such you've acted as them. They are a reflection of that.

With only a restricted set of circumstances, the possibilities to react to something are infinite in motivation even if the possible actions are limited.

(04-30-2015, 02:53 AM)Bring4th_Plenum Wrote: [ -> ]it's about how we can assume the worst about someone

(04-30-2015, 11:18 AM)Minyatur Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-30-2015, 02:53 AM)Bring4th_Plenum Wrote: [ -> ]  We can't really know *how* we would make a decision unless we are living the circumstances ourselves. 

If you are speaking of someone in particular, in their circumstances you're them and as such you've acted as them. They are a reflection of that.

With only a restricted set of circumstances, the possibilities to react to something are infinite in motivation even if the possible actions are limited.

Thanks Zachary. I feel like I attracted your avatar into my life.

(05-01-2015, 12:26 PM)Gemini Wolf Wrote: [ -> ]Thanks Zachary. I feel like I attracted your avatar into my life.

Glad it resonates amigo

(04-30-2015, 02:53 AM)Bring4th_Plenum Wrote: [ -> ]I just finished watching a couple of episodes of this show, and am fascinated by how it's told.

Without getting into spoilers, it's about how we can assume the worst about someone (because of their past history), and automatically inpute negative intentions on their motivations, in the absence of any other information.  The show deliberately points the narrative that way - that a lack of forgiveness means holding onto past grudges.

On some level, I can appreciate the wisdom in being able to see someone's history, and say that they are likely to repeat bad mistakes.  Especially if we've given them multiple chances in the past, and they continue to fail to match up to their talk of changed behaviour.

And yet, there might come a time when they are genuinely ready to change, and it's totally sincere, and they're totally ready to commit to change, and in the face of discouragement and suspicion from family members and others, they fall back into old patterns.  Of course, there's a certain responsibility in being able to make change for oneself, and being able to stick to it.  But for someone who has had a past history of errors, and doubts themselves to the core, the lack of support from others who might be in a position to help is enough to dampen a candle of dim light.

I witnessed a similiar theme playing out in Once Upon a Time, late in season 2.

of course, at some level, this is putting a certain guilt factor on these who have given the same person many many chances to reform in the past.

But what if this next chance, they want to change, but are mocked to their face, and lose heart?

Again, I want to emphasise that it is a rather artificial scenario being painted, and one that is deliberately slanted to drive home a point.  We can't really know *how* we would make a decision unless we are living the circumstances ourselves.  And so it would be appropriate catalyst if it came up in one's own life.  However, for a bystander, it's an interesting scenario to consider.  And raises potential questions on when we might have given up on someone maybe one moment too early

Plenum, this is a phenomenal essay. The people who run the holotropic breathwork program have weekend workshops, if they can be called that, wherein they watch movies together and reflect upon the deeper meanings and themes, performing analysis similar to what you've offered here, I imagine. We'll have to do something of the sort when next you're in town. : )

My wife watched this series on Netflix. I didn't join until I happened to sit next to her while the final episode was playing, and as so often happens with me when the TV (or in the case, computer) is on, I got sucked in. (TV often acts as a hypnosis machine for me.) It seemed a really excellent portrayal of real human dynamics.

How to be of help to someone who chronically repeats destructive behaviors despite many past professions to the contrary is a great challenge, and your metaphor of dampening an already dimly lit candle is exquisite: "But for someone who has had a past history of errors, and doubts themselves to the core, the lack of support from others who might be in a position to help is enough to dampen a candle of dim light."

The following line of yours also opened me to another insight: "The show deliberately points the narrative that way - that a lack of forgiveness means holding onto past grudges."

Jeremy started a thread about the value/need of praise and thanksgiving. In considering the question I saw how closely linked that practice is to surrender and faith. Reading the sentence of yours I just quoted, I realize too that praise and thanksgiving is also very closely associated with releasing the past and forgiving. That lead me to the realization that the various means of positive work in consciousness all merge together into a single vibration as the original thought is more closely approached, but as we are beings which are made complex, each thread is a necessary aspect or component that needs paid attention to. Meaning we need to work on surrender, on praise and thanksgiving, on faith, on forgiveness, on love, on light, on power, etc., but they all merge into a unitary vibration or state of being.

Thanks for this post.