Bring4th

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4D negative STS world would be a true prison.

I think we have it pretty good.

(05-17-2015, 04:01 PM)earth_spirit Wrote: [ -> ]I used to think about this when I was suicidal. It seems that entities like Ra and some others see earth as a "place of learning". But we don't have any option other than "to learn", do we? Even after death, we have no option but to reincarnate again and again until we have suffered / learned enough to rise to upper densities. If we don't have to option of "dropping out" of this "school", then would it not be more appropriate to call it a prison?

I remember that one time, I wanted not only to die, but cease to exist. I still wonder if such an option is available which allows our self-awareness to "dissolve" back into the Creator. Otherwise it would appear that we're prisoners with no way out.

The perspective you describe, which is a product of the conscious mind behind the veil, is not how you feel about it between lives. You're in a dream.

Technically I would say you should be able to incarnate pretty much anywhere that fit the time/space you need. Yet we incarnate here over and over.

(05-17-2015, 04:51 PM)Minyatur Wrote: [ -> ]Technically I would say you should be able to incarnate pretty much anywhere that fit the time/space you need. Yet we incarnate here over and over.

I think it could be because we develop small karmic ties to this planet, or any other one that we tend to incarnate to.

3D is indeed limiting in that our thoughts are not manifest immediately.

(05-17-2015, 04:01 PM)earth_spirit Wrote: [ -> ]I used to think about this when I was suicidal. It seems that entities like Ra and some others see earth as a "place of learning". But we don't have any option other than "to learn", do we? Even after death, we have no option but to reincarnate again and again until we have suffered / learned enough to rise to upper densities. If we don't have to option of "dropping out" of this "school", then would it not be more appropriate to call it a prison?

I remember that one time, I wanted not only to die, but cease to exist. I still wonder if such an option is available which allows our self-awareness to "dissolve" back into the Creator. Otherwise it would appear that we're prisoners with no way out.

Actually, i have a different understanding.  After death, you choose whether you incarnate, and if you don't want to reincarnate again  you don't have to. But know this, after this life you undergo spiritual healing.  All of your hurts and frustrations are healed in their entirety.  After this period of rejuvenation, you don't fear incarnating again.  You feel like you could handle anything.  Also, while it may sound great remaining in the spirit world, trust me, stagnation will eventually lead you to physically incarnate again.  And you won't look at it like some kind of prison sentence but rather, a wondrous opportunity to take advantage of.

Believe it or not, there are some souls that are not suited for individuality, or even incarnation on physical worlds. These souls progress through other means, such as assisting incarnated beings. This is how they progress. Physical incarnation, while more difficult, provides more efficient catalyst, and allows for much faster progression. It is a short cut, if you will, to the ultimate destination.

(05-17-2015, 05:16 PM)Gemini Wolf Wrote: [ -> ]3D is indeed limiting in that our thoughts are not manifest immediately.

That is actually the whole point of "physical" reality.

On the astral, your thoughts manifest instantaneously.  For an unbalanced or undeveloped soul, this is bad news.  Their fear instantly turns into a nightmare reality that keeps expanding as they continue to emotionally react to it the manifestations that rise up all around them.  Here, in the physical world, there is a buffer of time between thought and manifestation.  And it is a good thing for developing souls, like us.  It gives us the opportunity to develop emotional control, without instantaneously locking us into downward spiral of negative creation.

Did you ever wonder why ghosts get trapped in the conditions they do?  Or wonder why many hauntings appear to keep repeating the same actions over and over again?

They are stuck in emotional loops, where they keep reliving traumatic events from their past.  Here in a the physical world, the equivalent of this would be a "nightmare", but the advantage of being in a physical body is that at some point, you get hungry, or have to go to the bathroom, or somebody wakes you up.  After your dead, none of those distractions apply and you can get caught in emotional loops for what seems like a very long period of time from a physical perspective.  Helper souls try to break them out of these emotional loops, but they are so focused on their experiences, that they block perception of these helpers in precisely the same way that you block perception of time/space energies.  They can't even see higher energies.  In fact, physical people are more visible to them then nonphysical people are, and are actually in a better position to help these spirits than higher astral entities.

People wonder why ghosts would inhabit some dilapidated building for so long, but they don't see the dilapidation. They see what they saw in life. Some of them have completely forgotten they are dead.

Anyway, the main thing to keep in mind is that there are some serious advantages to the limitations we experience in this reality.

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Well, there are many things I just seem to "know" without really understanding "how" I know. My intuition has been going into overdrive the last couple of years. But you can find similar information in Dolores Cannon's work: Between Death and Life.

(05-17-2015, 06:34 PM)anagogy Wrote: [ -> ]Well, there are many things I just seem to "know" without really understanding "how" I know.  My intuition has been going into overdrive the last couple of years.  But you can find similar information in Dolores Cannon's work: Between Death and Life.

But how do you develop your intuition? Do you meditate regularly or engage yourself in contemplation? Intuition is something that's developed like a skill. For example, a doctor may have a certain "magical" intuition on how to proceed with the patient, but that intuition was developed through constant study and repeated exposure to similar problems.

(05-17-2015, 06:47 PM)Lighthead Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-17-2015, 06:34 PM)anagogy Wrote: [ -> ]Well, there are many things I just seem to "know" without really understanding "how" I know.  My intuition has been going into overdrive the last couple of years.  But you can find similar information in Dolores Cannon's work: Between Death and Life.

But how do you develop your intuition? Do you meditate regularly or engage yourself in contemplation? Intuition is something that's developed like a skill. For example, a doctor may have a certain "magical" intuition on how to proceed with the patient, but that intuition was developed through constant study and repeated exposure to similar problems.

I meditate.  And lucid dream, and occasionally astrally project (which can be achieved through lucid dream if you know what to do), which seems to automatically sharpen your nonphysical senses.  As a child, I was always surprised that when people asked me questions, especially of the spiritual variety, a really plausible answer would just surface immediately in my consciousness.  I think I have good capacities to channel, if I chose to.  I think we are all channeling quite frequently, but it only comes across as "some other personality" when we begin to have a need to objectify and label a vibrational focal point of information.

I'm sure there was past life development as well.

Your intuition is already there, just blocked by the conscious mind's doubts about information that it can't connect to knowledge it's aware of. So the conscious mind's natural response to intuitive information is, "I can't possibly know that. It's just a random thought." The reinforces the wall between intuitive and conscious knowledge.

To develop your intuition, simply reverse the process. Perhaps the easiest way to do this is automatic writing. Even if it ends up being all gibberish at first, second and third, keep going at it. Ask Quo to speak to you. frame a question in your mind. Then, write whatever comes to you. Practice not filtering but, instead, accurately transcribing every thought that arises. It doesn't matter whether it "works" or not at first. As long as you're practicing not filtering or doubting, you're helping chip away at the wall.

Meditation of course is also super important, as with everything.

My intuition once told me "I wouldn't" and prevented me from making a grave mistake.

(05-17-2015, 06:19 PM)anagogy Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-17-2015, 05:16 PM)Gemini Wolf Wrote: [ -> ]3D is indeed limiting in that our thoughts are not manifest immediately.

That is actually the whole point of "physical" reality.

On the astral, your thoughts manifest instantaneously.  For an unbalanced or undeveloped soul, this is bad news.  Their fear instantly turns into a nightmare reality that keeps expanding as they continue to emotionally react to it the manifestations that rise up all around them.  Here, in the physical world, there is a buffer of time between thought and manifestation.  And it is a good thing for developing souls, like us.  It gives us the opportunity to develop emotional control, without instantaneously locking us into downward spiral of negative creation.

Did you ever wonder why ghosts get trapped in the conditions they do?  Or wonder why many hauntings appear to keep repeating the same actions over and over again?

They are stuck in emotional loops, where they keep reliving traumatic events from their past.  Here in a the physical world, the equivalent of this would be a "nightmare", but the advantage of being in a physical body is that at some point, you get hungry, or have to go to the bathroom, or somebody wakes you up.  After your dead, none of those distractions apply and you can get caught in emotional loops for what seems like a very long period of time from a physical perspective.  Helper souls try to break them out of these emotional loops, but they are so focused on their experiences, that they block perception of these helpers in precisely the same way that you block perception of time/space energies.  They can't even see higher energies.  In fact, physical people are more visible to them then nonphysical people are, and are actually in a better position to help these spirits than higher astral entities.

People wonder why ghosts would inhabit some dilapidated building for so long, but they don't see the dilapidation.  They see what they saw in life.  Some of them have completely forgotten they are dead.

Anyway, the main thing to keep in mind is that there are some serious advantages to the limitations we experience in this reality.

Is this the main reason for increasing awareness in our space/time lives. To be able to be more aware in time/space 

(05-17-2015, 08:57 PM)Sabou Wrote: [ -> ]Is this the main reason for increasing awareness in our space/time lives. To be able to be more aware in time/space 

Let's just say, in my opinion, emotional control is one of the main reasons for physical incarnation.  The whole process of learning to emit distilled love is the process of learning this control.  We have to wear our metaphysical training wheels for a while, before being allowed into the more thought responsive realities above our own.

The Great Outdoors Indoors

I feel like I am the one *infinite* creator. Therefore, I feel like it's impossible for me to not exist. I very much feel like I'm a prisoner. My jail cell may be well-furnished & have an infinite amount of space but I see it as a cage nonetheless.

Just as the one infinite creator can have no beginning/entrance it can have no ending/exit. If it turns out that the creator isn't just a loving identity but is a hateful & wrathful one as well...from the bottom of my heart, I'll understand.

(05-17-2015, 05:49 PM)anagogy Wrote: [ -> ]Believe it or not, there are some souls that are not suited for individuality, or even incarnation on physical worlds. These souls progress through other means, such as assisting incarnated beings. This is how they progress. Physical incarnation, while more difficult, provides more efficient catalyst, and allows for much faster progression. It is a short cut, if you will, to the ultimate destination.

This is an awkward concept, anagogy. Based on the Ra Material and also in most of the spiritual teachings available here on Earth, that I know of, incarnation is not only the most efficient catalyst for spiritual evolution, it is actually the only one. The Creator needs a body in all planes of existence. As an example, we have this passage in the Ra Material, where Ra states that, once in time/space, the mind/body/spirit complex has no other choice than to incarnate in it's respective space/time environment, in order to be delivered from it and thus continue it's path to the Creator.

(05-17-2015, 05:49 PM)earth_spirit Wrote: [ -> ] [url=http://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthread.php?pid=181076#pid181076][/url]I used to think about this when I was suicidal. It seems that entities like Ra and some others see earth as a "place of learning". But we don't have any option other than "to learn", do we? Even after death, we have no option but to reincarnate again and again until we have suffered / learned enough to rise to upper densities. If we don't have to option of "dropping out" of this "school", then would it not be more appropriate to call it a prison?

I am sympathetic with you, earth_spirit. I have always felt this human condition as a prison. And indeed it is. A sense conditioning vehicle, in which we dwell as a mean to achieve an specific goal set up by some spiritual intents of which we have almost no memory of. It was very revealing to me when I first came into this concept of Wanderers, for this explains exactly how some of us feel. We, somehow, unconsciously remember our previous sensorial state, and so, we feel this 5-senses set of perceptions as a prison, indeed, while others feel so glad about it.

My heart recommendation for you is to follow the path of the iniciate. In doing so, you will free your senses from the 'cage', and you will literally be freed from the human-condition prison of which we share such a traumatic perception. The doors of heaven will gradually be opened to you, as you follow it. Keep in mind that your purpose here is to reach enlightenment, and in doing so you will help not only the planet in it's shift, but yourself, shifting your 'grey' perception of reality into a colorful vivid perception, rich in purpose and joy.

(05-18-2015, 08:09 AM)andreazzi Wrote: [ -> ]This is an awkward concept, anagogy. Based on the Ra Material and also in most of the spiritual teachings available here on Earth, that I know of, incarnation is not only the most efficient catalyst for spiritual evolution, it is actually the only one. The Creator needs a body in all planes of existence. As an example, we have this passage in the Ra Material, where Ra states that, once in time/space, the mind/body/spirit complex has no other choice than to incarnate in it's respective space/time environment, in order to be delivered from it and thus continue it's path to the Creator.

Do you know what session number that is? I don't remember seeing that. Maybe it's worded differently in the session itself.

(05-18-2015, 10:51 AM)Lighthead Wrote: [ -> ]Do you know what session number that is? I don't remember seeing that. Maybe it's worded differently in the session itself.

I believe this is the one:

Quote:70.14 Questioner: Oh yes. Sorry about that. It slipped my mind. Now, if a positive entity is displaced to negative time/space I understand that the higher self is reluctant to enter the negative time/space. And for some reason this makes it necessary for the mind/body/spirit complex to incarnate in negative space/time. Why is it necessary for this incarnation in negative space/time?

Ra: I am Ra. Firstly, let us remove the concept of reluctance from the equation and then secondly, address your query more to the point. Each time/space is an analog of a particular sort or vibration of space/time. When a negative time/space is entered by an entity the next experience will be that of the appropriate space/time. This is normally done by the form-making body of a mind/body/spirit complex which places the entity in the proper time/space for incarnation.

Also:

Quote:105.14 Questioner: Then the yellow-ray body, from the very beginning, was designed as what Ra has called an athanor for the mind, a device, you might say, to accelerate the evolution of the mind. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. It is perhaps more accurate to note that the yellow-ray, physical vehicle is a necessity without which the mind/body/spirit complex cannot pursue evolution at any pace.

(05-18-2015, 12:01 PM)Ooo Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-18-2015, 10:51 AM)Lighthead Wrote: [ -> ]Do you know what session number that is? I don't remember seeing that. Maybe it's worded differently in the session itself.

I believe this is the one:

Quote:70.14 Questioner: Oh yes. Sorry about that. It slipped my mind. Now, if a positive entity is displaced to negative time/space I understand that the higher self is reluctant to enter the negative time/space. And for some reason this makes it necessary for the mind/body/spirit complex to incarnate in negative space/time. Why is it necessary for this incarnation in negative space/time?

Ra: I am Ra. Firstly, let us remove the concept of reluctance from the equation and then secondly, address your query more to the point. Each time/space is an analog of a particular sort or vibration of space/time. When a negative time/space is entered by an entity the next experience will be that of the appropriate space/time. This is normally done by the form-making body of a mind/body/spirit complex which places the entity in the proper time/space for incarnation.

Also:

Quote:105.14 Questioner: Then the yellow-ray body, from the very beginning, was designed as what Ra has called an athanor for the mind, a device, you might say, to accelerate the evolution of the mind. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. It is perhaps more accurate to note that the yellow-ray, physical vehicle is a necessity without which the mind/body/spirit complex cannot pursue evolution at any pace.

Thanks. I pictured it differently, though.

(05-18-2015, 10:51 AM)Lighthead Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-18-2015, 08:09 AM)andreazzi Wrote: [ -> ]This is an awkward concept, anagogy. Based on the Ra Material and also in most of the spiritual teachings available here on Earth, that I know of, incarnation is not only the most efficient catalyst for spiritual evolution, it is actually the only one. The Creator needs a body in all planes of existence. As an example, we have this passage in the Ra Material, where Ra states that, once in time/space, the mind/body/spirit complex has no other choice than to incarnate in it's respective space/time environment, in order to be delivered from it and thus continue it's path to the Creator.

Do you know what session number that is? I don't remember seeing that. Maybe it's worded differently in the session itself.

Actually, there are many sessions which imply this understanding, but in addition to those quotes by Ooo, there is that discussion in which Ra explains to Don why Carla would inevitably incarnate in negative space/time environment if she would have been successfully relocated to negative time/space, while in trance state, by the 5D negative entity who was greeting them at that time.

Time/space and space/time are bound to the entity's formation and evolution, they are, in fact, the framework of existence. There is no other way to experience the manifested self and thus be subject to spiritual catalyst through the interaction with other-selves. There is no way for an entity to evolve spiritually experiencing only time/space, it would be like expecting someone to run a marathon using only the left leg. Time/space and space/time are two sides of the same framework, one adds to the other, just like anything else in this polarity based reality.

It's all in the mind, you are as free or as imprisoned as you think you are.

(05-18-2015, 08:09 AM)andreazzi Wrote: [ -> ]This is an awkward concept, anagogy. Based on the Ra Material and also in most of the spiritual teachings available here on Earth, that I know of, incarnation is not only the most efficient catalyst for spiritual evolution, it is actually the only one. The Creator needs a body in all planes of existence. As an example, we have this passage in the Ra Material, where Ra states that, once in time/space, the mind/body/spirit complex has no other choice than to incarnate in it's respective space/time environment, in order to be delivered from it and thus continue it's path to the Creator.

I am aware that this concept, at first glance, does not rez with the Ra material.  I fully concede that, and was fully aware of that quote prior to stating what I stated.

The Ra material is near and dear to my heart, but not all channeled material is correct.  And as precise as Ra was, even their words do not always paint a perfect picture of the cosmos.  At least, that is my opinion and perspective at this time.

I agree that beings need bodies to "evolve".  But I still maintain that physical incarnation is not for all beings.  There are other planes one may "incarnate" into a "body of sorts" and evolve.  I have little proof to offer you, I can only tell you this is my understanding.  Perhaps one day I will change my stance, but it is as it is.

Human consciousness is "ascendant" in nature, and thus, incarnation is an important tool for us, as such.  There are forms which exist which are not ascendant in nature, that dwell spiritually as part of the Logos, and they do not "evolve" and do not require physical bodies.  "The particular Logos of your major galaxy has used a large portion of Its coalesced material to reflect the beingness of the Creator. In this way there is much of your galactic system which does not have the progression of which you speak but dwells spiritually as a portion of the Logos."

To supplement the perspective I have offered, here is an excerpt from a subject in deep trance hypnosis, regressed to the inbetween lives state, from Dolores Cannon's work Between Death and Life:

Quote:D: Could you explain about these spiritual planes or levels?
S: If you would like to envision an inverted pyramid, God
would be at the top or the longest edge, and humanity would
be at the bottom or at the point. The planes are in-between
and as they go higher in number, they become more spiritual.
As one advances in the planes, one broadens one‘s awareness
and becomes closer to God. However, this pyramid analogy
lacks in several aspects, one being that the top or longest part
would be infinite. To be God, it would have to be infinite.
D: How do we advance through the planes?
S: You’re advancing through your planes right now. Incarnation is one manner.
D : Is i t a matter of simply spiritual development?
S: Spiritual development, yes. Physical development is another.-
D: Do we have to live more than one life in order to advance?
S: You need not live any lives at all if you so desire. It is not necessary
to incarnate; it is simply more efficient.
D: More efficient for what?
S: For you. For your time, For your learning experiences. It is
more complete learning to incarnate than to remain spiritual.
These are short cuts, if you will, to the ultimate destination.
D: And what is the ultimate goal?
S: To be one with God. To join with God again and reach
perfection, and then you don’t have to come back any more.
D: Have many spirits or souls reached the highest level of these
planes!
S: Many have already joined God and need never return to
lower planes again.
D: How many lives does it generally take?
S: It varies with different individuals. If they can stay with the
goal they have set and the pattern and not forget why they are
there, and stay in touch with their inner selves and stay
strictly on the path, it doesn’t take as many. But too many
people get caught up with the ways of the world. Their egos
and their vanities are built around them and they lose contact
with the spiritual, deeper truths of the reasons behind
their existence.
D: If we didn’t incarnate, how would we reach God?
S: Through other methods. Through helping, assisting incarnated
beings. Through being a guide, a teacher, a helper, a
friend on the spirit planes. There are many different methods.
D: What is the objective of physically working up through these
planes if it can be done from the other side?
S: We are ascendant beings. We are forming a ladder. There are
others whose entire purpose is stationary. This is similar to
people in a marathon. There are those at certain points who
do nothing but hold the water and give it to the runners as
they pass. These runners are ascendants, if you will, from the
beginning to the end. Angels are the assistants who do not
climb but merely serve. Our purpose is to start at the beginning
and run until we get to the finish. However, there is no
first or last place. All who cross the finish line are winners
in that race.

There are even beings that are not aware physical realities even exist:

From Seth:

Quote:The source and power of your present consciousness has never been physical, and where I am, many are not even aware that such a physical system exists. The physical system is an illusion, but you must accept it and from your viewpoint try to understand the realities that exist beyond it." "You cannot objectify the inner portions of your own identity, and therefore you do not perceive them. So much of your energy is used in the physical productions that you cannot afford to perceive any reality but your own. Like children playing with blocks, you focus your attention on the physical blocks. The physical blocks appear very real to you when you dwell within their perspective. Other shapes and forms that you could perceive, you do not. Even in explaining other realities, I must use the words and shapes or you would not understand me.

Anyways, I could be wrong, but this is my current understanding.

 

This isn't a prison. You can leave whenever you you want. Just know that no one wants you to go. You're not forced to be here. Your own free will has you here. You're not forced to stay (unless you literally are, and some actually are).

This isn't a school. Its a World. Its like a huge game with other people only you can do what you want as long as you acquire the means to. Beyond that, the game is as you make it, literally and truly.

Your mental personal perspective creates your view of reality in an almost self recursive way (but closer to you get what you focus on).

I can strongly empathize and sympathize with seeing the world as a prison, but if it is, best prison I've seen. So much love, of course there's a lot of hate but... What can I say? If you look at the darkness it'll suck you in over time. Its the nature of darkness. Vacuums pull, black holes pull, negativity pulls. So look elsewhere, follow the light from where it came from as its pulled into darkness. The nature of light isn't to pull, but expand considerately. It will bounce off you, bend around you, or even go right through you. Darkness sucks you in whole. If you choose to look at the darkness and get caught in it, always remember that you have a choice. To look away, or retain attention on the prison reality perspective.

I recently found myself a bit and finally looked back at the light. I don't want to look at the horror any longer, I see and feel it enough, I learned what it had to offer, now I'm returning to my Orange Ray power of seeing Love (i consider it Orange ray in that its how you interact with yourself).

Prison is heaven for some people. Its all in your view. If you look at the bad and view only bad, eventually you'll see and think only bad things happen.

Its like a mass lie. Say it enough, it becomes true in time...

(05-18-2015, 11:20 PM)anagog Wrote: [ -> ]To supplement the perspective I have offered, here is an excerpt from a subject in deep trance hypnosis, regressed to the inbetween lives state, from Dolores Cannon's work Between Death and Life:

Then you will have noticed, Anagogy, if you've read through Dolores Cannon's works, that she herself is pretty gullible, credulous and naive when tackling the information retrieved from her subjects. Perhaps more importantly, however, as is the case with most channeling nowadays, the "regressed" subjects are not hypnotized into what we may properly call a deep state of trance (as was Carla Rueckert's case). Because of this, one is dealing with the discarnate, albeit still 3rd-density personality complex, with all of its corresponding intellectual/emotional biases and limitations (as well as associated religious predispositions).

You will also notice that after "interviewing" this discarnate portion of the mind complex, Dolores sometimes will proceed to ask to speak with the "higher self" portion of the entity in question, which then is capable of providing a more objective, more enlightened and more accurate perspective on the matter. This is far more acceptable/valuable in terms of accuracy of information.

The point being: when dealing with most hypnotically "regressed" subjects, one is still dealing with 3rd-density understandings/limitations and associated personal biases. This is made evident by the tone and flavour of the message, the choice of words used in the structuring of the syntax, etc.

To use your quoted example:

Quote:If you would like to envision an inverted pyramid, God would be at the top or the longest edge, and humanity would be at the bottom or at the point.

This is a good example of subject's cognitive limitations of awareness. Humanity is clearly not at the "bottom" of the pyramid. We know there are grades of awareness "prior" to the human(oid) state. These are 2nd and 1st density animal/plant and elemental life, respectively.

Furthermore:

Quote:Many have already joined God and need never return to lower planes again.

Why are the "lower planes" always so stigmatized? Why is it that many "spiritually-inclined" people (especially of the New Age variety) shun the body and the incarnative experience as something that must be transcended and left behind, like a fetter or, as the title of this thread indicates, a prison? What does this escapism reveal about the entity in question?

In short: to ask for advice or information from discarnate 3rd-density entities is not much different than asking the same from embodied 3rd-density entities.

PS: I very much appreciate Dolores Cannon's well-meaning intentions. Same goes for Jane Roberts, Barbara Marciniak, David Wilcock, David Icke, Greg Bradden, Bruce Lipton, Nassim Haramein, Darryl Anka, Linda M. Howe, John E. Mack and Kerry Cassidy, just to mentioned some assorted names. I truly do. However, just because one is genuinely well-intended and "good-hearted" doesn't mean they are free from fallacy and the endorsement/promotion of misinformation.

(05-19-2015, 12:25 PM)Ooo Wrote: [ -> ]Then you will have noticed, Anagogy, if you've read through Dolores Cannon's works, that she herself is pretty gullible, credulous and naive when tackling the information retrieved from her subjects. Perhaps more importantly, however, as is the case with most channeling nowadays, the "regressed" subjects are not hypnotized into what we may properly call a deep state of trance (as was Carla Rueckert's case). Because of this, one is dealing with the discarnate, albeit still 3rd-density personality complex, with all of its corresponding intellectual/emotional biases and limitations (as well as associated religious predispositions).

You will also notice that after "interviewing" this discarnate portion of the mind complex, Dolores sometimes will proceed to ask to speak with the "higher self" portion of the entity in question, which then is capable of providing a more objective, more enlightened and more accurate perspective on the matter. This is far more acceptable/valuable in terms of accuracy of information.

The point being: when dealing with most hypnotically "regressed" subjects, one is still dealing with 3rd-density understandings/limitations and associated personal biases. This is made evident by the tone and flavour of the message, the choice of words used in the structuring of the syntax, etc.

I agree for the most part, but disagree that calling in the higher self part, makes the information more valid.  Either way, the info is being warped through the 3rd density ego that is sitting in the hypnotherapists chair, relating/translating the information.  But there is a big difference in the veiled 3rd density personality, and the nonveiled 3rd density personality and the information that they have access to in this type of hypnotherapy situation.  You can take nothing at face value, but it is interesting information or "mind candy" to consider.

And as far as deep trance states, Dolores stated in several of her books the importance of getting the subjects into the deepest state possible to afford access to the soul memories and personality.  It was something she made a special effort to do.  Not sure if your comment was in regard her work, but it seemed relevant to state.

(05-19-2015, 12:25 PM)Ooo Wrote: [ -> ]

Quote:If you would like to envision an inverted pyramid, God would be at the top or the longest edge, and humanity would be at the bottom or at the point.

This is a good example of subject's cognitive limitations of awareness. Humanity is clearly not at the "bottom" of the pyramid. We know there are grades of awareness "prior" to the human(oid) state. These are 2nd and 1st density animal/plant and elemental life, respectively.

I agree, and just took it for what it was worth: an very basic analogy to visualize progression through the planes.

(05-19-2015, 12:25 PM)Ooo Wrote: [ -> ]

Quote:Many have already joined God and need never return to lower planes again.

Why are the "lower planes" always so stigmatized? Why is it that many "spiritually-inclined" people (especially of the New Age variety) shun the body and the incarnative experience as something that must be transcended and left behind, like a fetter or, as the title of this thread indicates, a prison? What does this escapism reveal about the entity in question?

In short: to ask for advice or information from discarnate 3rd-density entities is not much different than asking the same from embodied 3rd-density entities.

PS: I very much appreciate Dolores Cannon's well-meaning intentions. Same goes for Jane Roberts, Barbara Marciniak, David Wilcock, David Icke, Greg Bradden, Bruce Lipton, Nassim Haramein, Darryl Anka, Linda M. Howe, John E. Mack and Kerry Cassidy, just to mentioned some assorted names. I truly do. However, just because one is genuinely well-intended and "good-hearted" doesn't mean they are free from fallacy and the endorsement/promotion of misinformation.

I personally see nothing wrong with so called lower planes.  The physical world is the lowest plane of all from my perspective, and is the main vehicle for catalytic evolution, so lower obviously doesn't mean bad or undesirable.  Even the lower astral planes serve many useful functions from my perspective.

Your observation about good hearted nature not equaling accuracy can be applied to all sources, even Carla.  There were plenty of errors related through Carla's words (many of which were caught in the sessions), so even when a sixth density being of light is communicating, we all have to carefully think about these concepts, and use our own personal discernment capabilities to ascertain the truth of any communicated piece of knowledge.  The assumed veracity of the source does not ever excuse us from personal truth discernment.  I never automatically accept any concept unless it agrees with me on a very deep fundamental level of intuition and logic.

Your words made me shed a single tear.

A good nature can be an imbalance in a channel. It will channel it's good intentions rather than cold truths it would not want to hear.

I can agree here now. 3D is not something we can escape.