Bring4th

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Dear Bring4th,

During my morning meditation yesterday, I had a recurrence of an unusual experience. I wonder if you've experienced similar or have insight to share.

It is very difficult to adequately describe and translate into spatial terms, but here goes.

When meditating with sufficient concentration/presence, I sometimes feel an extra energetic layer, you might say, that is interpenetrating or over top of the physical body. Though I do not lose motor control or sense of my physical body.

When it happens, I acutely feel its denseness. It has a denseness that brings to mind a feeling of the metal lead, as if I am surrounded in a field of energetic lead. It also has a sense of weight, almost as if it heavy... or pressing upon the physical body.

But it has no actual weight because it has no actual mass. It simply feels extremely... packed. Like I have pillows stuffed into pillows stuffed into pillows surrounding me.

There is however a simultaneous feeling of its lightness, or airiness, despite its denseness/heaviness. (As I mentioned, it is difficult to adequately describe.)

As to its relative shape and size... Can you picture how a person looks when dressed up in a fake sumo outfit? It feels like it overlaps my physical body to about those proportions. But sometimes I cannot apply spatial descriptions to it.

There is one more characteristic I can perceive that is even more difficult to translate. It's as if there are... bands of energy, as it were, that run through this field and somehow or another connect to or run through the physical body.

I have this vague memory that I've experienced this before in childhood when in bed for sleep. It happens once in a blue moon in my adult life, usually connected with meditation.

I cannot perceive any particular function or use of this experience. Nor does it provide me any information. It's simply a sensation, albeit a very intriguing and question-raising sensation.

I wonder if I am becoming conscious of one of the subtle bodies? Perhaps the astral, as that it the first in line beyond the yellow-ray vehicle.

Appreciate any thoughts or leads!

: ) GLB
It sounds like your Astral body but its still connected to the physical body, in a state before it goes off into an astral projection.
(06-24-2015, 10:52 AM)Matt1 Wrote: [ -> ]It sounds like your Astral body but its still connected to the physical body, in a state before it goes off into an astral projection.

Thanks for the reply. Any particular reason for identifying it as the astral body?
I have had some similar experiences during dream states and meditation in general. Its also likely to be the Astral body rather than a higher body due to its connectivity to the physical body. For me once you get into a state of mind awake/body asleep you end up in a very vivid lucid environment of the area you are in. I think when it comes to more mystical experiences its really what you make of it that counts rather than anything fixed and set in stone.
I have to agree with Matt1, sounds like you are becoming aware of the next body after your physical one.  If you want to call that "astral", that's fine.  Mystical language sounds cool, but i'm not terribly fond of it, as it obfuscates a more objective understanding.  Not to, in any way, imply you are attempting to do this, I just see a lot of confusion on the internet about naming subtle bodies.  My understanding of the subtle bodies is based on the Ra material, but probably goes contrary to how most people interpret the Ra material (in particular how people interpret Ra's explanation of the bodies).  So to be strictly accurate from my perspective, you are drifting into a state of consciousness where you are experiencing a slight degree of dissociation of your yellow ray - red subdensity body, and your yellow ray - orange subdensity body (the first layer of what most people interpret as the "astral body" from my perspective).

If you were in a deeper state of consciousness, you would begin to get the sensation that this expanded "sumo wrestler body" could detach or dissociate from your physical.  That sensation precedes astral projection.  You are on the way though, it sounds.  I even hesitate to call it a "body", because while it is a "body" of sorts, it is more like a layer of consciousness, which upon contact with the consciousness projects what feels like a body, as a kind of interface between the inner and outer reality.  It is not a strictly necessary construct for navigating that vibrational layer, it is just a form reflexively generated because that is what we are habitually used to.  Sort of like a jello mold, but after being out of the physical bodily mold for a while, it begins to adopt more of a pear shaped energetic field.  
(06-24-2015, 10:28 AM)Bring4th_GLB Wrote: [ -> ]As to its relative shape and size... Can you picture how a person looks when dressed up in a fake sumo outfit? It feels like it overlaps my physical body to about those proportions. But sometimes I cannot apply spatial descriptions to it.

There is one more characteristic I can perceive that is even more difficult to translate. It's as if there are... bands of energy, as it were, that run through this field and somehow or another connect to or run through the physical body.

what we know of as the 'aura' actually consists of 7 overlapping auric fields.  Perhaps a pic would help here:

[Image: wBowAue.gif]

as you can see, the physical vehicle we know of as 'the body' sits at the centre of these 7 fields, and is actually the final 'result' or condensation of what happens in those energetic fields.

Each of the 7 chakras interpenetrates the 7 layers of these fields.  You can see the crown chakra and the root chakra putting a funnel directly upwards and directly downwards through these 7 auric layers.  The other 5 chakras have a front funnel and a back funnel that point forwards (horizontally) out of the front of the body, and the back of the body.

It's through the interaction of the 7 energy centres with these 7 auric layers that the final 'physical vehicle' is manifested, with either it's health or illness or aches.  And even though we interact with other physical things with our physical body (say, getting cut by a knife), it's ultimately the energy centres interacting with the 7 layers of the field that determine the state of our well-beingness.

How this intersects with what Ra describes as the the 7 bodies is not something I've been able to come up with a satisfactory answer for.

But it may be possible that what you experienced was you 'tuning into' one of these auric layers, and being able to 'feel' the denseness of the energy, and the breadth of it's determining functions on the physical shell.

Each of these 7 auric layers has it's own internal structure and native qualities.
(06-24-2015, 10:28 AM)Bring4th_GLB Wrote: [ -> ]I have this vague memory that I've experienced this before in childhood when in bed for sleep. 

That's the only part that I can relate to here Gary. At least in terms of the sensation of denseness or lead. I used to have a recurring dream as a young boy where I was trying desperately to control some type of very dense vibration. Equally, trying to describe this dream seems impossible because there was no visual reference or description to it whatsoever. It felt like a "dense" vibratory pulse and I would often wake up sweating with a sense of being unable to control its weird and seemingly erratic vibration. In fact the best way I can describe the experience would be like a moth was fluttering its wings inside my ears and I was trying to calm the panic of said moth.

The only thing I am sure of though is that it was related to my own fears, and that I felt tasked with trying to control the vibration, hence waking up in sweats from it. This probably is not helpful though as I cannot ascertain if that is in anyway related to a subtle body?
(06-24-2015, 11:16 AM)anagogy Wrote: [ -> ]I have to agree with Matt1, sounds like you are becoming aware of the next body after your physical one.  If you want to call that "astral", that's fine.  Mystical language sounds cool, but i'm not terribly fond of it, as it obfuscates a more objective understanding.  Not to, in any way, imply you are attempting to do this, I just see a lot of confusion on the internet about naming subtle bodies.  My understanding of the subtle bodies is based on the Ra material, but probably goes contrary to how most people interpret the Ra material (in particular how people interpret Ra's explanation of the bodies).  So to be strictly accurate from my perspective, you are drifting into a state of consciousness where you are experiencing a slight degree of dissociation of your yellow ray - red subdensity body, and your yellow ray - orange subdensity body (the first layer of what most people interpret as the "astral body" from my perspective).

If you were in a deeper state of consciousness, you would begin to get the sensation that this expanded "sumo wrestler body" could detach or dissociate from your physical.  That sensation proceeds astral projection.  You are on the way though, it sounds.  I even hesitate to call it a "body", because while it is a "body" of sorts, it is more like a layer of consciousness, which upon contact with the consciousness projects what feels like a body, as a kind of interface between the inner and outer reality.  It is not a strictly necessary construct for navigating that vibrational layer, it is just a form reflexively generated because that is what we are habitually used to.  Sort of like a jello mold, but after being out of the physical bodily mold for a while, it begins to adopt more of a pear shaped energetic field.  

I think it's actually the green ray sub density where the 'astral body starts'. This is a good post and is close to my thoughts. What it likely is is as you hold a state of consciousness in meditation you are simultaneously connecting to all levels at once. I think the actual experience is of the sub-density 'body', but this sub-density body is vibrated in to activity by the bringing forth of awareness of a higher state. Hence, it's like vibrations entraining to eachother.
(06-24-2015, 12:48 PM)Tan.rar Wrote: [ -> ]I think it's actually the green ray sub density where the 'astral body starts'. This is a good post and is close to my thoughts. What it likely is is as you hold a state of consciousness in meditation you are simultaneously connecting to all levels at once. I think the actual experience is of the sub-density 'body', but this sub-density body is vibrated in to activity by the bringing forth of awareness of a higher state. Hence, it's like vibrations entraining to eachother.

Yeah, I realize that is how a lot of people interpret the subtle bodies, as the green ray being where the astral body starts.  I have just arrived at some slightly different conclusions than many in this department.  From my perspective, that vibrational ray is the "higher astral body".  Yellow-red ray sub density equals physical 3rd density, yellow-orange sub density equals lower astral body, yellow-yellow subdensity equals middle astral plane.  Some people also interpret them as: orange sub equals the "emotional body", yellow sub equals "the lower mental body", and green sub equals the "higher emotional body or astral body".  And honestly, I wouldn't disagree with that description either, because it contains some valid observations about those layers of consciousness.

But basically, the main thing to understand about the subtle bodily progression from my perspective is: red=physical, orange=less physical, yellow=even less physical, green=even less physical, and so on.  Each body up represents a more pronounced leaning away from matter and form, and more and more towards mind and formlessness.

The bodies Ra were describing were physical bodies, from my perspective.  The orange ray/red subdensity (2D:red) is the genetic body.  The Red/red (1D:red) subdensity is the elemental body.  The green/red (4D:red) subdensity is the physical "astral body", otherwise known as physical fourth density, and so on up the rays.

It's fun to think about.
 
I've experienced your description to some degree, but never felt the "heavy" part. The "other body" I experience is incredibly light and has an electrical feeling to it. It is also very malleable and doesn't hold a form as specific as the one I occupy in this body. In my visualization of it, it is semi-transparent and radiant, humanoid in shape but glowing like a small star. It seems to have some form of physical mass, but things can also pass through it. It could go right through a door or a wall. Needless to say, I haven't made it fully into this body, it's just something I become aware of from time to time. Sometimes it feels like I am connected to it from out of the top of my head.
I want to be able to do this, feeling your astral body or using it seems nice. Or your own aura at least... should've been born a pisces I guess.
Thanks for the replies everyone.
 
(06-24-2015, 11:16 AM)Matt1 Wrote: [ -> ]Its also likely to be the Astral body rather than a higher body due to its connectivity to the physical body.

Ah, so the connection is more tenuous between the higher bodies and the physical body.
 
(06-24-2015, 11:16 AM)anagogy Wrote: [ -> ]I have to agree with Matt1, sounds like you are becoming aware of the next body after your physical one.  If you want to call that "astral", that's fine.  Mystical language sounds cool, but i'm not terribly fond of it, as it obfuscates a more objective understanding.  Not to, in any way, imply you are attempting to do this, I just see a lot of confusion on the internet about naming subtle bodies.

I think that if one is seeking an objective understanding of anything, then common, mutually understood terminology is critical, or at least an ability to convert or translate between different systems of nomenclature.
 
Though a rose by any other name…


(06-24-2015, 11:16 AM)anagogy Wrote: [ -> ]If you were in a deeper state of consciousness, you would begin to get the sensation that this expanded "sumo wrestler body" could detach or dissociate from your physical.  That sensation precedes astral projection.

That’s interesting that you and others have indicated that the experience could be, or lead to, a launching point for astral travel.


(06-24-2015, 11:16 AM)anagogy Wrote: [ -> ]You are on the way though, it sounds.  I even hesitate to call it a "body", because while it is a "body" of sorts, it is more like a layer of consciousness, which upon contact with the consciousness projects what feels like a body, as a kind of interface between the inner and outer reality.  It is not a strictly necessary construct for navigating that vibrational layer, it is just a form reflexively generated because that is what we are habitually used to.  Sort of like a jello mold, but after being out of the physical bodily mold for a while, it begins to adopt more of a pear shaped energetic field.

Do you say this from study, experience, or both?

I had bought a series of Monroe Institute hemi-sync cassettes designed to help induce and facilitate out-of-body travel. That was 13 or so years ago. I had no success at the time. Things have changed a lot since then, though.

I just ran a keyword search on “astral” in the Law of One. I should have done that before writing the OP because Ra’s brief description for that body seems to match my own.

47.8 The green-ray body is that body which may be seen in séance when what you call ectoplasm is furnished. This is a lighter body packed more densely with life. You may call this the astral body following some other teachings.
 
 

(06-24-2015, 11:28 AM)Bring4th_Plenum Wrote: [ -> ]as you can see, the physical vehicle we know of as 'the body' sits at the centre of these 7 fields, and is actually the final 'result' or condensation of what happens in those energetic fields.

It's through the interaction of the 7 energy centres with these 7 auric layers that the final 'physical vehicle' is manifested, with either it's health or illness or aches.

Don’t you think that model runs somewhat contrary to the Ra Material, though. (Which is not to make the Law of One the final arbiter of truth.)
Ra indicates that the physical vehicle is not the final or first (depending on your perspective) of seven, but rather, identical to the hierarchy of chakras, the third in the line.
 
47.8 The red-ray body is your chemical body. However, it is not the body which you have as clothing in the physical. It is the unconstructed material of the body, the elemental body without form. This basic unformed material body is important to understand for there are healings which may be carried out by the simple understanding of the elements present in the physical vehicle.

The orange-ray body is the physical body complex. This body complex is still not the body you inhabit but rather the body formed without self-awareness, the body in the womb before the spirit/mind complex enters. This body may live without the inhabitation of the mind and spirit complexes. However, it seldom does so.

The yellow-ray body is your physical vehicle which you know of at this time and in which you experience catalyst. This body has the mind/body/spirit characteristics and is equal to the physical illusion, as you have called it.



(06-24-2015, 11:28 AM)Bring4th_Plenum Wrote: [ -> ]How this intersects with what Ra describes as the the 7 bodies is not something I've been able to come up with a satisfactory answer for.

Oh, you already see the discrepancy. : )
 

(06-24-2015, 11:30 AM)Nicholas Wrote: [ -> ]I used to have a recurring dream as a young boy where I was trying desperately to control some type of very dense vibration.

That’s fascinating. There must be greater significance to that experience beyond chalking it up as random neural firing during sleep. I would love to know what was happening in that case.


(06-25-2015, 01:10 AM)Yera Wrote: [ -> ]I've experienced your description to some degree, but never felt the "heavy" part. The "other body" I experience is incredibly light and has an electrical feeling to it. It is also very malleable and doesn't hold a form as specific as the one I occupy in this body. In my visualization of it, it is semi-transparent and radiant, humanoid in shape but glowing like a small star. It seems to have some form of physical mass, but things can also pass through it. It could go right through a door or a wall. Needless to say, I haven't made it fully into this body, it's just something I become aware of from time to time. Sometimes it feels like I am connected to it from out of the top of my head.

I would have thought you had already done several tours of the solar system through astral projection.

I’m not so sure I would say this body or experience has an “electrical” feel to it. Definitely energetic, definitely non-physical. But I get no sense that it can be “detached”, as it were, from the physical body and projected or travel elsewhere. However, it could also just be that I haven’t developed this faculty.
My other thought is you are experiencing the etheric vehicle which comes with a third eye experience.
(06-25-2015, 11:18 AM)Bring4th_GLB Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-24-2015, 11:28 AM)Bring4th_Plenum Wrote: [ -> ]as you can see, the physical vehicle we know of as 'the body' sits at the centre of these 7 fields, and is actually the final 'result' or condensation of what happens in those energetic fields.

It's through the interaction of the 7 energy centres with these 7 auric layers that the final 'physical vehicle' is manifested, with either it's health or illness or aches.

Don’t you think that model runs somewhat contrary to the Ra Material, though. (Which is not to make the Law of One the final arbiter of truth.)
Ra indicates that the physical vehicle is not the final or first (depending on your perspective) of seven, but rather, identical to the hierarchy of chakras, the third in the line.
 
47.8 The red-ray body is your chemical body. However, it is not the body which you have as clothing in the physical. It is the unconstructed material of the body, the elemental body without form. This basic unformed material body is important to understand for there are healings which may be carried out by the simple understanding of the elements present in the physical vehicle.

The orange-ray body is the physical body complex. This body complex is still not the body you inhabit but rather the body formed without self-awareness, the body in the womb before the spirit/mind complex enters. This body may live without the inhabitation of the mind and spirit complexes. However, it seldom does so.

The yellow-ray body is your physical vehicle which you know of at this time and in which you experience catalyst. This body has the mind/body/spirit characteristics and is equal to the physical illusion, as you have called it.






(06-24-2015, 11:28 AM)Bring4th_Plenum Wrote: [ -> ]How this intersects with what Ra describes as the the 7 bodies is not something I've been able to come up with a satisfactory answer for.

Oh, you already see the discrepancy. : )
 

I read Hands of Light, I didn't comprehend any discrepancies.

Your physical body is both at this time the Yellow Ray in Activation, but is also made possible by the full spectrum of energetic fields working together as many/one to formulate the manifested body, this being yellow ray activated for Yellow/3rd Density beings to have a physical body that is 'equivalent' with the holographic physical reality around us.

Red Ray/Etheric Body is structured and consists of light lines that oscillate, deals with red ray issues but also formulates the more basic/lower body/bodies that are manifested along your 'current' body (make up parts of your whole)
Orange Ray/Emotional Body is non-structured and formless consisting of thoughtforms and emotions/feelings regarding your current state. It too formulates the manifested portions/layers of the Whole Body (your body).
Yellow Ray/Mental Body is structured and consists of light lines that oscillate, but is a step up from the Etheric Body despite being similar in that it is more dense, complex, and holds much more intelligence within its methods of operation since it is the more advanced form of the Etheric Body. It is probably the most closely associated Auric field we are aware of if we are very well aware of our thoughts and mental habits. Emotions and emotional habits would be Emotional/Orange Ray body. Sexuality and survival habits Etheric/Red Ray.

Those bodies can very easily overlap with Ra's explanations.

Our Body is a creature of the Mind, the third layer is the Mental Body, in auric form and in Chakra Activation (Density Activation versus being Yellow Ray Potentiated) it can be both.

Just like each Chakra has sub-Chakras and each body has sub-bodies.

Why not both??  I see no discrepancies.

I can try to explain more in depth if you like.
So based off of that, the size you mentioned and the experience.

Anagogy might be onto it noting that you 'progressed' through several 'states' of your 'self' and came upon one you desired and wanted to know more about.

It sounds like the Astral Body, but I think it's trying to tell you 'I'm not heavy or light' by trying to show you by feeling like both.  It may simply be time for introducing you to a new aspect of yourself that is awakening potentially.

You could be, rising up, in terms of overall normal meditative time/space Space/time experience and experiencing the next body up the line, but the layers are not separate, they all blend like a gradient of a rainbow.  I know you know this but I often times forget that Red and Orange need to blend into each other to be best understood.  Same applies to each auric body and field.

You seem to just be penetrating the outer-inner portions of the astral body perhaps, or the more in depth layers of the Green Ray Body/Yellow-Green body since I imagine the 4th subdensity of Yellow can still correspond with the 4th Main Green in order to allow all to interconnect.

All is One Heart

You should try exploring the body as if you were exploring another aspect of your body.  Like people who care about nutrition are listening to their Red and Orange Ray bodies telling them, they explored their diet and find the proper way for them.

Maybe you need to try a similar approach here.  It's helpful to remember that the Green Ray or Astral Body is a Bridge to allow higher and lower energies to interact (I know you know this but typing it out for others) so it might be useful to consider approaching this body in the way you'd approach someone with high and low moods.

Be gentle and open, loving and patient.  You'll probably open up to yourself I hope and think~
(06-25-2015, 02:06 PM)Tan.rar Wrote: [ -> ]My other thought is you are experiencing the etheric vehicle which comes with a third eye experience.

Why do you think it may be the etheric vehicle which comes with a third eye experience?

(06-26-2015, 11:09 AM)VanAlioSaldo Wrote: [ -> ]It may simply be time for introducing you to a new aspect of yourself that is awakening potentially.

Indeed, it may. Thanks for the suggestions and the detailed analysis, Van.

Smile
(06-25-2015, 11:18 AM)Bring4th_GLB Wrote: [ -> ]Do you say this from study, experience, or both?

Both, though the subjective nature of this phenomenon is such that my studies necessarily influence my experiences.  I suppose there is no wholly true objectivity as one recedes back into the realm of pure subjective energy from which all seeming "objective" realities are predicated upon.

(06-25-2015, 11:18 AM)Bring4th_GLB Wrote: [ -> ]I had bought a series of Monroe Institute hemi-sync cassettes designed to help induce and facilitate out-of-body travel. That was 13 or so years ago. I had no success at the time. Things have changed a lot since then, though.

Indeed.  Much as I would like to say I've mastered the discipline, producing the phenomenon at will still eludes me.  I'm dependent on awakening into the right "state".  I have yet to deliberately produce the experience from a fully awakened state.  The best results happen for me by setting my alarm clock for early in the morning (preferably before the sun rises), and then intending strongly to become conscious after my body has gone to sleep.

(06-24-2015, 11:28 AM)Bring4th_Plenum Wrote: [ -> ]How this intersects with what Ra describes as the the 7 bodies is not something I've been able to come up with a satisfactory answer for.

(06-25-2015, 11:18 AM)Bring4th_GLB Wrote: [ -> ]Don’t you think that model runs somewhat contrary to the Ra Material, though. (Which is not to make the Law of One the final arbiter of truth.)
Ra indicates that the physical vehicle is not the final or first (depending on your perspective) of seven, but rather, identical to the hierarchy of chakras, the third in the line.

This is what I'm always attempting to explain: how Ra's explanation of the bodies matches up with the subtle bodies espoused by the occultists, but I fully understand that many others won't agree with my explanations.  Also, if any of the following disagrees with your understanding or sensibilities, please feel free to point out the flaws in my thinking if you see any.  I freely accept criticism.  I found the following explanation to be somewhat of a revelation when I figured it all out, and wanted to share my understanding, but it is completely understandable if it doesn't jive with someone.  

To further make this point, allow me to quote Ra's descriptions of the bodies, interspersed with my interpretations or observations about Ra is saying:

Quote:47.8 Questioner: In our esoteric literature numerous bodies are listed. I have here a list of the physical body, the etheric, the emotional, the astral, and the mental. Can you tell me if this listing is the proper number, and can you tell me the uses and purposes and effects, etc., of each of these or any other bodies that may be in our mind/body/spirit complex?

Ra: I am Ra. To answer your query fully would be the work of many sessions such as this one, for the interrelationships of the various bodies and each body’s effects in various situations is an enormous study. However, we shall begin by referring your minds back to the spectrum of true colors and the usage of this understanding in grasping the various densities of your octave.

We have the number seven repeated from the macrocosm to the microcosm in structure and experience. Therefore, it would only be expected that there would be seven basic bodies which we would perhaps be most lucid by stating as red-ray body, etc. However, we are aware that you wish to correspond these bodies mentioned with the color rays. This will be confusing, for various teachers have offered their teach/learning understanding in various terms. Thus one may name a subtle body one thing and another find a different name.

The red-ray body is your chemical body. However, it is not the body which you have as clothing in the physical. It is the unconstructed material of the body, the elemental body without form. This basic unformed material body is important to understand for there are healings which may be carried out by the simple understanding of the elements present in the physical vehicle.

The orange-ray body is the physical body complex. This body complex is still not the body you inhabit but rather the body formed without self-awareness, the body in the womb before the spirit/mind complex enters. This body may live without the inhabitation of the mind and spirit complexes. However, it seldom does so.

The yellow-ray body is your physical vehicle which you know of at this time and in which you experience catalyst. This body has the mind/body/spirit characteristics and is equal to the physical illusion, as you have called it.  

[please note that the first 3 bodies described are *physical* bodies.  And Ra makes no specific point of saying they are done describing physical bodies, and will now here describe nonphysical bodies.  No such distinction is made.  This is really important.  It is my assertion that all the bodies Ra is describing in this section are physical bodies.  The reason Ra says it is "equal" to the physical illusion is because it is equal to OUR physical illusion as 3rd density beings.  If we were 2nd density beings, the orange ray would then have been equal to our physical illusion.  Capish?]

The green-ray body is that body which may be seen in séance when what you call ectoplasm is furnished. This is a lighter body packed more densely with life. You may call this the astral body following some other teachings. Others have called this same body the etheric body. However, this is not correct in the sense that the etheric body is that body of gateway wherein intelligent energy is able to mold the mind/body/spirit complex.

[here, Ra is talking about ectoplasmic manifestations during seances, or spirit contacts where spiritual beings make themselves *physically* visible through the use of ectoplasm.  Again, this is a *physical* manifestation Ra is describing.  Apparently, the physical matter of fourth density is easier for non corporeal entities to utilize than the matter of 3rd density, for example.] 

The light body or blue-ray body may be called the devachanic body. There are many other names for this body especially in your so-called Indian Sutras or writings, for there are those among these peoples which have explored these regions and understand the various types of devachanic bodies. There are many, many types of bodies in each density, much like your own.

[please note how, in this section, Ra states that there are many bodies in other densities much like our own, which, in fact, is a *physical* density (at least, the portion we are currently privy to).  Isn't that fascinating?  Yet again, there is a strong implication this is referencing physical realities.]

The indigo-ray body which we choose to call the etheric body is, as we have said, the gateway body. In this body form is substance and you may only see this body as that of light as it may mold itself as it desires.

The violet-ray body may perhaps be understood as what you might call the Buddha body or that body which is complete.

Each of these bodies has an effect upon your mind/body/spirit complex in your life beingness. The interrelationships, as we have said, are many and complex.
So what am I saying by pointing all this out?

Basically, I am asserting that the subdensities *reflect* the major densities in composition and form.  Or rather, it would be more accurate to say: the densities reflect the essential nature of the RAYS they resonate with most closely.  In truth, all densities exist in ALL the rays, but each density is particularly resonant, or identified, with a specific ray.  

Each "higher ray" is of a higher vibration than the preceding ray.  Just as the color red is of a slower wavelength than the color violet in the scientifically understood electromagnetic spectrum the rays are similarly nuanced by rate of vibration in a metaphysical sense.  

What does this mean in practical experience?

The slower the rate of vibration, the more TANGIBLE things will become.  And that, my dear friends, is what puts the PHYSICAL in PHYSICALITY.  Tangibility is the essence of physical.  And conversely, INTANGIBILITY is what puts the nonphysical in nonphysical.  The higher the rate of vibration the more the orientation towards the intangible things become.

And this is why, pure space/time is RED RAY.  And pure time/space is VIOLET RAY.  Each reflects a predominant spatial orientation of the energy or consciousness material towards the physical or the nonphysical.  All the rays in between are not purely oriented in either direction and thus they contain varying ratios of the tangible to the intangible or varying ratios of space to time.  Whew!  That is a mouth full, and a lot to think about, so one could be entirely forgiven for not grokking this right away, but I'm trying, somewhat painfully, to lay the bread crumbs of logic to this key to understanding the bodies, be they physical or otherwise.

So with this understanding of rate of vibration and its relationship to the orientation towards the tangible (space/time) or the intangible (time/space), one can begin to understand its relationship to the subtle bodies and/or physical bodies.

The red ray subdensity of any given density is the overlap, or marriage, between the consciousness of any given ray and the red ray which is the lowest vibratory ray of consciousness, which, as we discussed previously, is the most tangible, or physical, manifestation of any given energy level.  Thus, the red ray subdensity of any given density is the physical body of that density -- the physical manifestation that may physically, or most tangibly, house the consciousness resonant with that density.

Thus, the red ray of 1st density (1D:red) is the physical body that houses 1D consciousness, otherwise known as the ELEMENTAL BODY without form.

The red ray of 2nd density (2d:red) is the physical body that houses 2D consciousness, otherwise known as the GENETIC BODY or as Ra calls it, "the body formed without self-awareness, the body in the womb before the spirit/mind complex enters." 

The red ray body of 3rd density (3D:red) is the physical body that houses 3D consciousness, otherwise known as the HUMAN FORM, or other equivalent 3rd density terran construct with brain capacity enough to support consciousness that is SELF AWARE in nature.  Though, it is not properly 3rd density unless a self aware being is in fact inhabiting it.

The red ray body of 4th density (4D:red) is the physical body that is capable of housing 4D consciousness, which, I surmise, is a kind of ectoplasmic form or as Ra elsewhere described the phyical fourth density body: "That which fourth density is not: it is not of words, unless chosen. It is not of heavy chemical vehicles for body complex activities. It is not of disharmony within self. It is not of disharmony within peoples. It is not within limits of possibility to cause disharmony in any way.Approximations of positive statements: it is a plane of a type of bipedal vehicle which is much denser and more full of life; it is a plane wherein one is aware of the thoughts of other-selves; it is a plane where one is aware of the vibrations of other-selves; it is a plane of compassion and understanding of the sorrows of third density; it is a plane striving towards wisdom or light; it is a plane wherein individual differences are pronounced although automatically harmonized by group consensus." 

This same analysis applies to the rest of the red ray bodies of all other densities, though the physical forms become progressively more refined to support the consciousness of the given vibratory ray in the physical realm.  The physical forms become of a higher and higher energy level.  This is why Ra said if they had come among the egyptians without altering their form they would have been "perceived as light".  People miss the point that they still "would have been perceived", because they still have a physical form at that level (if they want it).  Their PHYSICAL manifestations at their density level has LITERALLY become light (and also why physical light is the generative offspring of 6th density copulation).

Now, back to the SUBTLE bodies.

When one understands how the red ray subdensity is the most tangible manifestation of each density, one can begin to understand the logic of the more subtle bodies of each density, which constitute the remaining rays of any given density.  Each one above the red ray is a more subtle manifestation than the last, each succeeding body leaning more and more purely in the direction of the supraluminal velocities of pure time/space.  And also, leaning more and more in the direction of the formless mind from which all things arise out of and dissolve back into.

One can begin to understand how the first few vibratory bodies beyond the red ray contain remnants of the tangible, remmants and similarities to the physical world we are familiar with, such as the astral levels, which can seem VERY physical and tangible, and which are more easily understandable from a physical perspective, and gradually rise up into the mental bodies of conceptual architecture and inspiration, and then the spiritual causal bodies, and finally, the buddhic body in time/space at the apex of formless consciousness, and the levels where what we think of as "forms" are both FORGED and DISSOLVED.  Where form is seen as a literal SUBSTANCE to be spread about like we might spread butter on toast.

There is power in understanding this metaphysical architecture.  I sincerely wish I was better equipped to articulate my understanding in a more palatable way. 
(06-30-2015, 01:42 AM)anagogy Wrote: [ -> ]Both, though the subjective nature of this phenomenon is such that my studies necessarily influence my experiences.  I suppose there is no wholly true objectivity as one recedes back into the realm of pure subjective energy from which all seeming "objective" realities are predicated upon.

In my previous post I almost remarked on how seemingly subjective is the study of these bodies, based upon the few posts contributed to this thread.

While descriptions may vary widely from person to person, I would think that there must be tell-tale, universal, defining characteristics for each of the seven bodies that help identify which one is being activated and experienced.


(06-30-2015, 01:42 AM)anagogy Wrote: [ -> ]Much as I would like to say I've mastered the discipline, producing the phenomenon at will still eludes me.

I have not been able to identify a common denominator behind when I experience this. So far as I know it is random, save for the possibility that concentration/presence plays a part.

 
(06-30-2015, 01:42 AM)anagogy Wrote: [ -> ]The best results happen for me by setting my alarm clock for early in the morning (preferably before the sun rises)

That is the most terrible idea I’ve ever heard.

 
RA: The light body or blue-ray body may be called the devachanic body. There are many other names for this body especially in your so-called Indian Sutras or writings, for there are those among these peoples which have explored these regions and understand the various types of devachanic bodies. There are many, many types of bodies in each density, much like your own.

(06-30-2015, 01:42 AM)anagogy Wrote: [ -> ][please note how, in this section, Ra states that there are many bodies in other densities much like our own, which, in fact, is a *physical* density (at least, the portion we are currently privy to).  Isn't that fascinating?  Yet again, there is a strong implication this is referencing physical realities.][/color]

When Ra says much like your own, do you think they are saying much like your own density, or much like your own currently activated (yellow-ray) body?

As to the rest of your great essay…

To make sure I’ve got the gist of it: Ra says there exist seven sub-densities within each density, meaning our third density has seven sub-densities within it. You assert that those sub-densities correspond with two things:

(1) The major density of the same color ray.
(For instance, the first sub-density of third density is red and corresponds with the nature, or composition and form, of true first density.)

(2) One of the seven subtle bodies.
(For instance, the first sub-density of third density is red and corresponds with the nature, or composition and form, of the red ray or elemental body.)

To what do you think the term "subtle" applies? The six bodies not presently activated? Or those bodies which are higher in sequence than the body presently one (as the higher bodies are less physical)?

Then, these seven true-color bodies, rays, and densities move on a spectrum from purely space/time or physical (red) on one end, to purely time/space or non-physical (violet) on the other, with gradations of ratios in between the two poles, where tangibility characterizes the space/time end, and intangibility the time/space end. In other words, between form and formlessness.


(06-30-2015, 01:42 AM)anagogy Wrote: [ -> ]The red ray subdensity of any given density is the overlap, or marriage, between the consciousness of any given ray and the red ray which is the lowest vibratory ray of consciousness, which, as we discussed previously, is the most tangible, or physical, manifestation of any given energy level.  Thus, the red ray subdensity of any given density is the physical body of that density -- the physical manifestation that may physically, or most tangibly, house the consciousness resonant with that density.

So, using our density, you would diagram the seven sub-density bodies as:

Yellow-red
Yellow-orange
Yellow-yellow
Yellow-green
Yellow-blue
Yellow-indigo
Yellow-violet

And you would say that Yellow-red is the entry body for this density, and evolves upward from there as the entity progresses through third density.
I’ve never considered this before. Does Ra speak to this elsewhere in the text?

If this is indeed the case, I would contend that the newly minted third-density entity begins his or her progress at the Yellow-yellow level. (Or in the case of the succeeding density, the Green-green level.)

Ra describes evolution of consciousness as raising the locus of awareness upward. When that locus is seated in a new ray, or chakra, it has transcended but already includes the junior levels.

Likewise for the progression upward through the densities. When consciousness has met the qualifications for entrance into third-density (i.e., self-awareness/individuation), that locus has risen to activate and inhabit the Yellow-yellow body without necessity to retrace steps through Y-r and Y-o.

The sub-red and sub-orange of third density can certainly be experienced and explored, but they have already been accomplished; they exist as part of the underlying structure which supports the beginning Y-y entity.

Alternatively, perhaps the progression through Y-r and Y-o happens through conception. Ra describes the orange-ray body as that which exists in the womb. So that, having moved through Y-r and Y-o through conception, the 3D m/b/s complex is vibrating good old fashioned Yellow-yellow upon birth.
 
(06-30-2015, 01:42 AM)anagogy Wrote: [ -> ]One can begin to understand how the first few vibratory bodies beyond the red ray contain remnants of the tangible, remmants and similarities to the physical world we are familiar with, such as the astral levels, which can seem VERY physical and tangible, and which are more easily understandable from a physical perspective, and gradually rise up into the mental bodies of conceptual architecture and inspiration, and then the spiritual causal bodies, and finally, the buddhic body in time/space at the apex of formless consciousness, and the levels where what we think of as "forms" are both FORGED and DISSOLVED.  Where form is seen as a literal SUBSTANCE to be spread about like we might spread butter on toast.

This is an exquisitely concise summary hitting the highlights of the spectrum from form to formlessness, or vice versa.

On the point of the violet-ray being the purest representation of time/space… I tend to see consciousness or awareness at that level has having transcending all duality, all space/time time/space constructs. It is the whole, the all, the macro and the micro, the unification of the absolute and the relative. Violet-ray activated consciousness is, in other words, outside* of the spectrum, as it were; the infinite out of which the spectrum arises and depends for its manifest existence.

What say you?

*As will all spatio-temporal thought constructs, "outside" doesn't apply to the infinite, nor for that matter does anything we can say or conceive.


(06-30-2015, 01:42 AM)anagogy Wrote: [ -> ]There is power in understanding this metaphysical architecture.  I sincerely wish I was better equipped to articulate my understanding in a more palatable way.

On the contrary, your essay is most illuminating. This is not an area I’ve really explored in the Law of One, and your thoughts have opened new vistas to me. Thank you for the care put into constructing your words so meticulously.
(06-30-2015, 12:21 PM)Bring4th_GLB Wrote: [ -> ]That is the most terrible idea I’ve ever heard.

As someone who frequently suffers from insomnia, and general distaste for waking up early, I sympathize.  BigSmile
 
(06-30-2015, 12:21 PM)Bring4th_GLB Wrote: [ -> ]When Ra says much like your own, do you think they are saying much like your own density, or much like your own currently activated (yellow-ray) body?

I think the fact that they even brought up talk about "other densities" while talking about the devachanic body is quite telling, indeed.  But yes, I think they meant "much like your own density".  The fact they were discussing bodies in other densities is indicative (at least, to me) that they were referring to physical bodies.  Consider for a moment, that physical incarnation involves entering into multiple lives in many differing bodies.  For example, you could have a different ethnicity in every life.  What ethnicity or physical characteristics do you suppose your time/space body possesses?  This is a point of some interesting consideration.  Do you see what I mean by this level of energy expression being a less tangible manifestation?  It is more of a "probability field", a more general manifestation, as opposed to the more specific manifestation that is a physical body, which is a crystallization of probability -- a collapse of a wave function to specific particulate manifestation.    

(06-30-2015, 12:21 PM)Bring4th_GLB Wrote: [ -> ]As to the rest of your great essay…

To make sure I’ve got the gist of it: Ra says there exist seven sub-densities within each density, meaning our third density has seven sub-densities within it. You assert that those sub-densities correspond with two things:

(1) The major density of the same color ray.
(For instance, the first sub-density of third density is red and corresponds with the nature, or composition and form, of true first density.)

(2) One of the seven subtle bodies.
(For instance, the first sub-density of third density is red and corresponds with the nature, or composition and form, of the red ray or elemental body.)

Basically, from my perspective, all densities exist in all the rays.  However each density is particularly resonant with a particular ray.  So, for example, 1st density is predominantly identified with Red Ray, and thus, it views the universe, and all other rays, from its Red Ray perspective.  That equals 1st density.

The first subdensity of 3rd density is red ray as viewed from the perspective of consciousness that is predominantly identified with Yellow Ray, thus, it equals physicality as perceived from the self aware perspective.  This is why you only see 3rd density physical.  You cannot see 2nd density physical, for example, or 1st density physical, because everything you are seeing, in the physical world, is from your uniquely Yellow Ray vantage point.

When you look at 2D:red physical constructs, you only ever see the 3rd density physical portion of them.  Because that is all our consciousness can understand based on the level of vibration we currently exist at.

This is also why, for example, when Ra spoke of black holes they talked about the black hole apparent in "3rd density physical", because that is the only portion of physicality we can perceive.

(06-30-2015, 12:21 PM)Bring4th_GLB Wrote: [ -> ]To what do you think the term "subtle" applies? The six bodies not presently activated? Or those bodies which are higher in sequence than the body presently one (as the higher bodies are less physical)?

The subtle bodies are simply those bodies that are less tangible than the one we presently inhabit.  What makes a body either subtle or gross?  Simply, degree of tangibility.  In a wider sense, there is actually a physical body that you have regardless of whether you are in incarnation or not.  You can think of it as a kind of subtle physical body.  This red ray body is the "vitality" sheath.  Some occultists would call this the "etheric body" (though clearly not the one Ra was referring to).  It is also the body astral projectors inhabit when they are in what many of them call the "real time zone".  It is part of the physical world, just not part of the physical world that is perceivable when in the body.

(06-30-2015, 12:21 PM)Bring4th_GLB Wrote: [ -> ]Then, these seven true-color bodies, rays, and densities move on a spectrum from purely space/time or physical (red) on one end, to purely time/space or non-physical (violet) on the other, with gradations of ratios in between the two poles, where tangibility characterizes the space/time end, and intangibility the time/space end. In other words, between form and formlessness.

Exquisitely, and precisely correct.

(06-30-2015, 12:21 PM)Bring4th_GLB Wrote: [ -> ]So, using our density, you would diagram the seven sub-density bodies as:

Yellow-red
Yellow-orange
Yellow-yellow
Yellow-green
Yellow-blue
Yellow-indigo
Yellow-violet

And you would say that Yellow-red is the entry body for this density, and evolves upward from there as the entity progresses through third density.
I’ve never considered this before. Does Ra speak to this elsewhere in the text?

Well, it would be more accurate to say that as 3rd density yellow ray beings, we inhabit that whole continuum.  It is like a spectrum of focus.  And, yes, initial entry into physical incarnation requires a predominant focus on the red ray level, but the consciousness is constantly vacillating up and down the continuum during an incarnation.  These subdensities correspond to the chakras, or energy centers, as expressed in 3rd density.  And Ra does indicate the correspondence of the subdensities to the chakra system in one section:

Quote:17.38 Questioner: Well, does each… does… this is difficult. Our physical plane: Are there seven sub-planes to what we call our physical plane here?
Ra: I am Ra. You are correct. This is difficult to understand. There are an infinite number of planes. In your particular space/time continuum distortion there are seven sub-planes of mind/body/spirit complexes. You will discover the vibrational nature of these seven planes as you pass through your experiential distortions, meeting other-selves of the various levels which correspond to the energy influx centers of the physical vehicle.

The invisible, or inner, third-density planes are inhabited by those who are not of body complex natures such as yours; that is, they do not collect about their spirit/mind complexes a chemical body. Nevertheless these entities are divided in what you may call an artificial dream within a dream into various levels. In the upper levels, desire to communicate knowledge back down to the outer planes of existence becomes less, due to the intensive learn/teaching which occurs upon these levels.

At least, that is how I, personally, interpret that section.

(06-30-2015, 12:21 PM)Bring4th_GLB Wrote: [ -> ]If this is indeed the case, I would contend that the newly minted third-density entity begins his or her progress at the Yellow-yellow level. (Or in the case of the succeeding density, the Green-green level.)

Ra describes evolution of consciousness as raising the locus of awareness upward. When that locus is seated in a new ray, or chakra, it has transcended but already includes the junior levels.

Likewise for the progression upward through the densities. When consciousness has met the qualifications for entrance into third-density (i.e., self-awareness/individuation), that locus has risen to activate and inhabit the Yellow-yellow body without necessity to retrace steps through Y-r and Y-o.

The sub-red and sub-orange of third density can certainly be experienced and explored, but they have already been accomplished; they exist as part of the underlying structure which supports the beginning Y-y entity.

Alternatively, perhaps the progression through Y-r and Y-o happens through conception. Ra describes the orange-ray body as that which exists in the womb. So that, having moved through Y-r and Y-o through conception, the 3D m/b/s complex is vibrating good old fashioned Yellow-yellow upon birth.
 
I agree with you in the sense that in each succeeding density, the kundalini is raised higher and higher through the chakra system.  The requirement for graduation to the next vibrational continuum (4D) is achieved by raising it the green sub density and seating the energy there.  And most 3rd density beings are generally vibrating in yellow sub level of yellow (as an interesting aside, because our consciousness naturally gravitates to this vibrational level, in or out of the body, the natural seating of the consciousness for the 3rd density being is in the middle astral planes, just as animals naturally gravitate to the intelligence level of the lower astral plane.)

But throughout an incarnation our consciousness is always vacillating up and down the continuum.  For example, if you were born in a 3rd world country and your consciousness was constantly occupied by thoughts of basic bodily survival, you would be vibrating down in the 3rd density red range, until those needs were balanced, and could then think in terms of personal self hood, and then societal interaction, and so on.

(06-30-2015, 12:21 PM)Bring4th_GLB Wrote: [ -> ]This is an exquisitely concise summary hitting the highlights of the spectrum from form to formlessness, or vice versa.

On the point of the violet-ray being the purest representation of time/space… I tend to see consciousness or awareness at that level has having transcending all duality, all space/time time/space constructs. It is the whole, the all, the macro and the micro, the unification of the absolute and the relative. Violet-ray activated consciousness is, in other words, outside* of the spectrum, as it were; the infinite out of which the spectrum arises and depends for its manifest existence.

What say you?

*As will all spatio-temporal thought constructs, "outside" doesn't apply to the infinite, nor for that matter does anything we can say or conceive.

I used to think the EXACT same thing, GLB, allow me to elucidate:

It is not that you are wrong in your conclusions (and your questions are fantastic by the way), but allow me to inject another interesting concept that perhaps lead this concept a bit back from the abyss for you.  I pray to god I can make this not be confusing:

What we think of as "form" and "formless" are not so different from one another.  And all this becomes resolved in violet ray as the culmination of "wholeness" of the whole vibrational continuum.  In fact, what we think of as "form" is actually, literally, a CROSS-SECTION through the "formless".  Yes, you heard me right.  The TANGIBLE is a cross-section through the INTANGIBLE.  3D space (and I'm not referring to densities here, strictly dimensions), is a cross section through 4D time.  All form is *contained* within the formless.

People think the mind is within the body, but in fact, it is the body which is *WITHIN* the mind (and all form in general).  The only difference between mind and matter is the DISTANCE between the "subject" and the "object".  This perceptual distance is what maintains and enriches the illusion that there is a world outside of you to investigate and explore.  This equals the ILLUSION of EXTERNALITY.

Perhaps I can approach this from a slightly more intuitive direction: do you recall how in 6th density, the seeming dichotomy between STS and STO is, in fact, dissolved?  And, do you also recall that even having done away with this seeming dichotomy of "positive" and "negative" the creator is, in all practical experience, and by all reasonable estimation still POSITIVE by *default*, because negativity is an artifact dependent on separation to be manifest?  In the absence of separation, while you can't truly define, in a dual way, positivity apart from negativity, everything is perfectly harmonious and by all reasonable estimation: positive.

Are you with me so far?

Okay, so, this SEEMING dichotomy between space/time (form/body/outer) and time/space (formless/mind/inner) is the EXACT same way.  And by the time violet ray rolls around, the ice of separation has completely melted, so to speak, and in the same way that when positivity and negativity are dissolved yet things become positive by default, everything becomes time/space in that EXACT SAME WAY.  In the absence of any perceivable perceptual distance between subject and object, the illusion of OUTER completely collapses and everything is viewed from an INNER perspective.  You are no longer looking at the world from an outside in perspective, its all from the inside out.  If it helps, think of the violet ray energy level as the perfect balance to the red ray energy level.

The true "stepping outside of the whole continuum" happens when violet ray is transcended for the infinity that is the OCTAVE.  In violet ray, there is a still an infinitely subtle proto self, and because of this, a reflexively created division between inner (time/space) and outer (space/time).  In the octave density, the egoic self, which is the line or demarcation between inner and outer is completely dissolved.  And because of this, there is no inner or outer manifestation, and all just becomes infinite beingness.  

Then, your center is everywhere, and your circumference is nowhere.

(06-30-2015, 12:21 PM)Bring4th_GLB Wrote: [ -> ]On the contrary, your essay is most illuminating. This is not an area I’ve really explored in the Law of One, and your thoughts have opened new vistas to me. Thank you for the care put into constructing your words so meticulously.

Thank you for your excellent questions.  

I highly value questions such as yours because your questions literally set off the chain reaction of conditions in consciousness for me to channel even more fine nuances in regards to these subjects.  The asking literally allows the answering to happen for me as well (at least in terms of the fine nuances).  I learn so much through these exchanges.
Gary--please remind me about this subject when you come to visit. I have an audio file (from Whitley Strieber) that addresses exactly this subject. You might wish to listen to it.
(06-30-2015, 12:21 PM)Bring4th_GLB Wrote: [ -> ]When Ra says much like your own, do you think they are saying much like your own density, or much like your own currently activated (yellow-ray) body?


(07-02-2015, 07:07 PM)anagogy Wrote: [ -> ]I think the fact that they even brought up talk about "other densities" while talking about the devachanic body is quite telling, indeed.  But yes, I think they meant "much like your own density".  The fact they were discussing bodies in other densities is indicative (at least, to me) that they were referring to physical bodies.

Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems that the you are using the term "physical" synonymously with "manifest" - as if to say that physicality, in any density or plane, is that which is manifest, active, and the most tangible substance for that particular level. It doesn't seem like you're using physical to denote the realm of the third-density space/time illusion.


(07-02-2015, 07:07 PM)anagogy Wrote: [ -> ]Consider for a moment, that physical incarnation involves entering into multiple lives in many differing bodies.  For example, you could have a different ethnicity in every life.  What ethnicity or physical characteristics do you suppose your time/space body possesses?

If you are Keanu Reeves, probably something like this.

I would suppose its fundamental characteristics would be consistent with the necessities of its native plane, but to that would be added personalized characteristics, similar to ethnic attributes, as you mention above, that is to say, whatever is the time/space equivalent of skin color, hair texture and color, body size, shape of the eyelids, etc.

(07-02-2015, 07:07 PM)anagogy Wrote: [ -> ]This is a point of some interesting consideration.  Do you see what I mean by this level of energy expression being a less tangible manifestation?

Less tangible from the standpoint of the junior bodies. For instance, we who are yellow-ray activated will experience the green-ray body as "less tangible". But were we in fourth density, the green-ray body's tangibility would be just right.

Am I understanding what you're saying?


(07-02-2015, 07:07 PM)anagogy Wrote: [ -> ]The first subdensity of 3rd density is red ray as viewed from the perspective of consciousness that is predominantly identified with Yellow Ray, thus, it equals physicality as perceived from the self aware perspective.  This is why you only see 3rd density physical.  You cannot see 2nd density physical, for example, or 1st density physical, because everything you are seeing, in the physical world, is from your uniquely Yellow Ray vantage point.

I may not be following, because it seems that both first and second density forms can be adequately viewed from the standpoint of third-density consciousness, and are viewed on a daily basis. I think I'm missing something.



(07-02-2015, 07:07 PM)anagogy Wrote: [ -> ]When you look at 2D:red physical constructs, you only ever see the 3rd density physical portion of them.  Because that is all our consciousness can understand based on the level of vibration we currently exist at.

This is also why, for example, when Ra spoke of black holes they talked about the black hole apparent in "3rd density physical", because that is the only portion of physicality we can perceive.

I grok that, in looking out upon the universe with physical eyes and instruments built for our physical eyes, we will only perceive the yellow-ray layer, so to speak, of a universe which, in actuality, exists in all rays. The densities/rays/bodies above our own are more or less invisible to our senses and instruments.

But we can and should be able to see the densities/rays/bodies below our own, though the timelessness of first density may be a bit outside our reach.


(07-02-2015, 07:07 PM)anagogy Wrote: [ -> ]The subtle bodies are simply those bodies that are less tangible than the one we presently inhabit.  What makes a body either subtle or gross?  Simply, degree of tangibility.

So, for the yellow-ray activated entity, the green through violet bodies are subtle bodies; the orange and red bodies are gross bodies.



Quote:17.38 Questioner: Well, does each… does… this is difficult. Our physical plane: Are there seven sub-planes to what we call our physical plane here?

Ra: I am Ra. You are correct. This is difficult to understand. There are an infinite number of planes. In your particular space/time continuum distortion there are seven sub-planes of mind/body/spirit complexes. You will discover the vibrational nature of these seven planes as you pass through your experiential distortions, meeting other-selves of the various levels which correspond to the energy influx centers of the physical vehicle.

The invisible, or inner, third-density planes are inhabited by those who are not of body complex natures such as yours; that is, they do not collect about their spirit/mind complexes a chemical body. Nevertheless these entities are divided in what you may call an artificial dream within a dream into various levels. In the upper levels, desire to communicate knowledge back down to the outer planes of existence becomes less, due to the intensive learn/teaching which occurs upon these levels.

Great quote. Sounds like another way to say that some entity's consciousness is predominantly identified with and focused on red-ray, some on orange-ray, some on yellow-ray, and so forth.


(06-30-2015, 12:21 PM)Bring4th_GLB Wrote: [ -> ]On the point of the violet-ray being the purest representation of time/space… I tend to see consciousness or awareness at that level has having transcending all duality, all space/time time/space constructs. It is the whole, the all, the macro and the micro, the unification of the absolute and the relative. Violet-ray activated consciousness is, in other words, outside* of the spectrum, as it were; the infinite out of which the spectrum arises and depends for its manifest existence.

What say you?

*As will all spatio-temporal thought constructs, "outside" doesn't apply to the infinite, nor for that matter does anything we can say or conceive.



(07-02-2015, 07:07 PM)anagogy Wrote: [ -> ]I used to think the EXACT same thing, GLB, allow me to elucidate:

It is not that you are wrong in your conclusions (and your questions are fantastic by the way), but allow me to inject another interesting concept that perhaps lead this concept a bit back from the abyss for you.  I pray to god I can make this not be confusing:

What we think of as "form" and "formless" are not so different from one another.  And all this becomes resolved in violet ray as the culmination of "wholeness" of the whole vibrational continuum.  In fact, what we think of as "form" is actually, literally, a CROSS-SECTION through the "formless".  Yes, you heard me right.  The TANGIBLE is a cross-section through the INTANGIBLE.  3D space (and I'm not referring to densities here, strictly dimensions), is a cross section through 4D time.  All form is *contained* within the formless.

People think the mind is within the body, but in fact, it is the body which is *WITHIN* the mind (and all form in general).  The only difference between mind and matter is the DISTANCE between the "subject" and the "object".  This perceptual distance is what maintains and enriches the illusion that there is a world outside of you to investigate and explore.  This equals the ILLUSION of EXTERNALITY.

Perhaps I can approach this from a slightly more intuitive direction: do you recall how in 6th density, the seeming dichotomy between STS and STO is, in fact, dissolved?  And, do you also recall that even having done away with this seeming dichotomy of "positive" and "negative" the creator is, in all practical experience, and by all reasonable estimation still POSITIVE by *default*, because negativity is an artifact dependent on separation to be manifest?  In the absence of separation, while you can't truly define, in a dual way, positivity apart from negativity, everything is perfectly harmonious and by all reasonable estimation: positive.

Are you with me so far?

Okay, so, this SEEMING dichotomy between space/time (form/body/outer) and time/space (formless/mind/inner) is the EXACT same way.  And by the time violet ray rolls around, the ice of separation has completely melted, so to speak, and in the same way that when positivity and negativity are dissolved yet things become positive by default, everything becomes time/space in that EXACT SAME WAY.  In the absence of any perceivable perceptual distance between subject and object, the illusion of OUTER completely collapses and everything is viewed from an INNER perspective.  You are no longer looking at the world from an outside in perspective, its all from the inside out.  If it helps, think of the violet ray energy level as the perfect balance to the red ray energy level.

The true "stepping outside of the whole continuum" happens when violet ray is transcended for the infinity that is the OCTAVE.  In violet ray, there is a still an infinitely subtle proto self, and because of this, a reflexively created division between inner (time/space) and outer (space/time).  In the octave density, the egoic self, which is the line or demarcation between inner and outer is completely dissolved.  And because of this, there is no inner or outer manifestation, and all just becomes infinite beingness.  

Then, your center is everywhere, and your circumference is nowhere.


I quoted your whole text here so as to not truncate anything because you present a cohesive whole.

Bravo, anagogy, in dancing through these difficult concepts and mustering the right words. I grasp your line of logic in using the end of polarity is sixth-density as an analog for the end of outer/inner, space/time-time/space in the seventh density, and how in each case there is only one mode remaining once another rung of illusion has been removed or released.

I see you aiming at non-duality, and situating its full realization/experience in the eighth density, or the point at which violet ray or the seventh density has been transcended. Because, you contend, that even in violet ray there is still a "subtle proto self" that persists, some wisp of identity that is subtly distinct from the all.

I just placed the "stepping outside of the continuum" at an earlier point (not in time but in sequence, perhaps) of the journey. I'm a bit out of my league however in attempting to determine where all dualities come to an end. And I understand as well that using concepts of "where" and "when" ultimately have no application when attempting to talk in non-dual terms when there is no when, and no where.

You are probably right regarding violet-ray consciousness as not yet the total dissolution of all illusions, the collapse of subject/object, and the end of duality and paradox.

I tend to look at it as being that end, however, because Ra called it the Buddhic body, and I associate the Buddha as an entity who did completely and irrevocably dissolve the illusion of the individual, separate "I" to reveal the infinity or totality that is already present, full, complete, and perfect.

Further, Ra calls indigo ray the "gateway", implying that that which is beyond the gate, the non-dual infinity, would be experienced upon moving through the gate and the subsequent full "entrance" into violet-ray consciousness. (Entrance in quotes because that, too, is an illusion. We cannot "enter" what we never left in the first place.)

At whatever point dualities collapse, I think we both agree that it cannot be called "time/space" any longer, as time/space, no matter how default or close to the original undifferentiated unity, is still working within artificial environmental constructs.

Couple quotes associated with this discussion: 36.1 40.1


(07-02-2015, 07:07 PM)anagogy Wrote: [ -> ]...set off the chain reaction of conditions in consciousness...

What a creative way to say "thinking". Smile


(07-02-2015, 07:07 PM)anagogy Wrote: [ -> ]The asking literally allows the answering to happen for me as well (at least in terms of the fine nuances).  I learn so much through these exchanges.

I have found that to be true in my own case as well in all manner of conversation. Even if there is no asking, per se, the depth or direction of the discussion tends to elicit a corresponding depth or direction from within me. Funny how the universe matches itself. : )


(07-02-2015, 07:31 PM)Eddie Wrote: [ -> ]Gary--please remind me about this subject when you come to visit.  I have an audio file (from Whitley Strieber) that addresses exactly this subject.  You might wish to listen to it.

I would love that. Thank you. Though no wine for me this round - I've been keeping my system squeaky clean since returning from a meditation retreat a few weeks ago. Be seeing you soon.
(07-07-2015, 11:30 AM)Bring4th_GLB Wrote: [ -> ]Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems that the you are using the term "physical" synonymously with "manifest" - as if to say that physicality, in any density or plane, is that which is manifest, active, and the most tangible substance for that particular level. It doesn't seem like you're using physical to denote the realm of the third-density space/time illusion.

You're right, for me, physical doesn't just mean 3rd density space/time illusion.  There is a space/time illusion for every density from my perspective.  Sometimes they overlap, such as our overlap with 1st, 2nd, and 3rd.  And 4th through 7th have more spatial directions in which to exist in, so their space/time continuums don't have to overlap with our unless they want them to.

You are correct in that the physical world represents the manifest body (whatever the density).  Space/time is the manifest (male/kinetic), time/space is the unmanifest (female/potential).  One is specific, the other is more general (well, in terms of form).  One leans toward mind, one leans toward matter.  In fact, I would even go so far as to say that in space/time matter is objective, and mind is subjective, and in time/space mind becomes objective, and matter becomes subjective.  So in one matter dominates the experience, and in the other mind dominates the experience.  

There is a physical manifestation for every density (red).  As well as a lower/middle/higher astral manifestation (orange, yellow, green), a mental/devachanic manifestation (blue), a causal/etheric manifestation (indigo), and a buddhic manifestation (violet).

Please query further if I missed what you were asking.

(07-07-2015, 11:30 AM)Bring4th_GLB Wrote: [ -> ]I would suppose its fundamental characteristics would be consistent with the necessities of its native plane, but to that would be added personalized characteristics, similar to ethnic attributes, as you mention above, that is to say, whatever is the time/space equivalent of skin color, hair texture and color, body size, shape of the eyelids, etc.

The analogy I like best is that of water vapor condensing into liquid, and then gradually freezing.  The vapor is analogous to the mental planes, the liquid equivalent to the astral planes, and the ice analogous to the physical world.  In the less tangible planes of time/space orientation, the forms are transient and malleable but as the vibration is lowered into say, for example, the physical spectrum of reality it solidifies into specific and tangible form.


(07-07-2015, 11:30 AM)Bring4th_GLB Wrote: [ -> ]Less tangible from the standpoint of the junior bodies. For instance, we who are yellow-ray activated will experience the green-ray body as "less tangible". But were we in fourth density, the green-ray body's tangibility would be just right.

Am I understanding what you're saying?

Hmmm not quite.  Depends what green ray body you are talking about.  The green ray body that is the sub density of every density 1-7 is what I would call the "higher astral body", and relative to any physical body would be most ephemeral.  But if you are talking strictly physical bodies, the physical body of any given density is equally "physical", however the physical material of each succeeding density is that portion of red ray that overlaps with whatever other density you are talking about.  So the physical material of 1st density, 2nd density, and 3rd density, and 4th density, and so on, all share pronounced physical/tangible heritage, but it will more "refined" material.  A more powerful mind requires a more powerful body to carry that mind.  Consider the refinements in matter you see between a 1st density rock, and a 2nd density plant.  There is more complex patternization.  We contain 1st density physical, 2nd density physical, and 3rd density physical components in our bodies.  Each is another layer of complexity in the chemical/physical/tangible refinement that allows a given level of complexity of consciousness to interact with the physical red ray plane.  

Similarly, the fourth density physical green ray body is just as physical as you and I, but it is a more refined material, but so refined we cannot ordinarily detect it with our normal bodies.  However, there are circumstances where physicals between densities are merged.  Look at UFO abductions for example.  Fourth density aliens may interact with our physicality, but they can also move out of phase with 3rd density space/time.  They seem to be afforded greater spatial directions of movement.

(07-07-2015, 11:30 AM)Bring4th_GLB Wrote: [ -> ]I may not be following, because it seems that both first and second density forms can be adequately viewed from the standpoint of third-density consciousness, and are viewed on a daily basis. I think I'm missing something.

You can "see them", but you don't really "see them as they are", you see them through the eyes of 3rd density.  The sub density continuum of 3rd density encompasses the vibrational possibilities of thought of a yellow ray being.  So you are not really seeing 2nd density, just the part of their physicality that extends upward into your 3rd density perceptual continuum.  The yellow ray continuum that constitutes 3rd density is the entire grabbag of items from every ray that still fits inside of the 3rd density perspective or thought/reality gestalt.

It is almost a distinction not worth noting, because it causes more confusion than clarity.  There are aspects of 2nd density physicality we are not privy to since we are not members of the that continuum.  Same goes for 1st density.  

(06-30-2015, 12:21 PM)Bring4th_GLB Wrote: [ -> ]I grok that, in looking out upon the universe with physical eyes and instruments built for our physical eyes, we will only perceive the yellow-ray layer, so to speak, of a universe which, in actuality, exists in all rays. The densities/rays/bodies above our own are more or less invisible to our senses and instruments.

But we can and should be able to see the densities/rays/bodies below our own, though the timelessness of first density may be a bit outside our reach.

As I said, you can see the portion of them that is cross compatible with 3rd density, but that is only part of their reality.

If this doesn't jive with your world view, I completely understand, but my understanding is that you can only see things that fit into your yellow ray reality/perspective.  i.e. There is a large part of the animal, and mineral continuum we simply can't understand or perceive.  It is true you see their matter, just as they see yours.  Perhaps I'm being overly abstract here, but the way their consciousness interacts with the matter they see, and way your consciousness perceives/interacts with the matter you see as a 3rd density being is different.  I won't pretend to know all the subtleties of this, but that is what makes sense to me based on this model I've created, based on my interpretation of the Ra material.  Consider it an interesting possibility to contemplate.

(07-07-2015, 11:30 AM)Bring4th_GLB Wrote: [ -> ]So, for the yellow-ray activated entity, the green through violet bodies are subtle bodies; the orange and red bodies are gross bodies.

Since 3D:red is 3rd density physical, 3D:orange is subtle relative to 3D: red (this is would be the lower astral manifestation of 3rd density), and 3D:yellow is subtle relative to 3D:orange (this is the middle astral), and so on up the rays.  So each sub density up is a more subtle manifestation/plane/than the previous.

But if you are talking about the red ray subdensity of any given density, they are all gross bodies, or rather, bodies that are physically manifest.  Now, on the other hand, as a physically incarnate being, you've got this heavy chemical body that pretty much dominates your perception, so even though you may be vibrating subdensity yellow or green, you are still going to be looking out at the physical world through that red ray bodies perceptual faculties.  One thing of interesting note, implied by my model is that if you were vibrating in subdensity green, you will attract those experiences in the physical world that match that green ray perspective as manifested in 3rd density.  This would be opportunities for expressing those vibrational proclivities and such.  They very nature of the level you vibrate at creates your perceptual filter, so you will tend to filter out experiences that don't match that.   


(06-30-2015, 12:21 PM)Bring4th_GLB Wrote: [ -> ]I tend to look at it as being that end, however, because Ra called it the Buddhic body, and I associate the Buddha as an entity who did completely and irrevocably dissolve the illusion of the individual, separate "I" to reveal the infinity or totality that is already present, full, complete, and perfect.

But Ra also had this to say about the Buddhic: "The violet-ray or Buddhic body is of equal efficacy to the healer for within it lies a sense of wholeness which is extremely close to unity with all that there is."

Ra says "extremely close" but not necessarily totally concomitant with it.  Of some interesting consideration.  But who knows, you could be right.  

(06-30-2015, 12:21 PM)Bring4th_GLB Wrote: [ -> ]Further, Ra calls indigo ray the "gateway", implying that that which is beyond the gate, the non-dual infinity, would be experienced upon moving through the gate and the subsequent full "entrance" into violet-ray consciousness. (Entrance in quotes because that, too, is an illusion. We cannot "enter" what we never left in the first place.)

My understanding is that it is the "gateway" to intelligent infinity.  Violet ray is potentiated intelligent infinity in my view, or in other words, the currently manifest Logos which also functions as the island of densities we are traversing through.  It is "focused intelligent infinity" or the kinetic manifestation of intelligent infinity.  The octave is unpotentiated intelligent infinity.  And indigo ray, in my view is the level of "intelligent energy".

(06-30-2015, 12:21 PM)Bring4th_GLB Wrote: [ -> ]At whatever point dualities collapse, I think we both agree that it cannot be called "time/space" any longer, as time/space, no matter how default or close to the original undifferentiated unity, is still working within artificial environmental constructs.

Indeed.  On that point, we most certainly agree.