I was just reading an article just now about AJ Burnett. He's a pitcher in the major leagues in Baseball. He was commenting how he might have thrown his last pitch in a 16 year career; and that the pain in his right elbow had become intolerable, and that he was not prepared to have surgery and rehab from it (that can be a more than 12 month process). So his career might be done.
I was just thinking about this attitude towards pain, and men being taught to be 'tough', and just continue on despite physical pain. No pain, no gain, right?
When in truth, pain (whether it be physical, emotional, or spiritual) is just an indicator that something needs attention. It is the smoke ... and there is a fire that is burning. We should stop what we are doing, and find out what is causing tha pain ('the fire'). Attend to the fire, and the smoke goes out ('no more pain').
And yet, that is rarely the attitude. The more common attitude is just to put up with the pain, ignore it, psuh through the barriers, despite physical and mental/emotional costs. Soldiers are routinely put in the most disturbing of situations, till the point where they develop PTSD, and can no longer actually function effectively.
We have depression and anxiety, which are also salient indicators of pain, and yet they are only treated for the smoke, and not the fire.
I used to run middle distance (say, 10km or 7miles) when I was younger. Pushing through the pain/discomfort barrier was something I taught byself to do. But looking back, I don't think it's the healthiest approach to take towards physical fitness. Surely one can work with the body, and tune it and hone it, without engaging in the practice of inflicting pain and suffering on it. Those runner's highs are marked by endorphins - which are a response to pain in the body.
Maybe developing the mental attitude of 'high tolerance to pain' is really not a good thing at all.
Instead of being a 'tough guy', perhaps it takes the greater courage to look in the mirror, and try to find where the fire is, rather than parading one's self-suppressing abilities when it comes to physical/emotional, mental and spiritual Pain.
I had pain once when my urine turned red. But they couldn't find a kidney stone. But I tend to wuss out when I get pain like that. I've also been bitten by a dog on my hand, and that hurts too.
I agree that pain is a messenger, and all you have said in the OP. Not listening to our own bodies and our personal messaging system instead of honoring it with wisdom does seem counterproductive and disconnected. This is aside from any addictions which complicate the messages. The fact that we push through physical pain is perhaps analogous to having to go through pain in order to grow spiritually and evolve.
To give ourselves a break, I think one origin of this attitude is developed in childhood, when some of us had very difficult situations to handle in dysfunctional families. And children are survivors—so they learn to push through the pain to survive.
Also, I don't think we should confuse listening to our bodies with listening to outside authority. I am thinking of a man in AZ (if I recall his name is Mac Newton and he wrote a book I read which I loaned out and did not get back, and I can't recall the title), who taught martial arts and was a highly sought coach for professional sports. He was in the Vietnam war and wounded badly. He was told he would never walk again and if he tried, he would further damage what was left of him. He went through the usual anger, sadness, etc. But his spirit rose up and he basically said, screw it. He tried anyway and he pushed through the enormous pain and didn't give up until he could not only walk again, but become a superb athlete and teacher.
Wow, I never heard of doctors telling you not to try to walk again.
Very astute observations!
Bashar mentions that it's much better to get to the point just before the pain and stop. And by doing so, over time, you increase your ability without damaging the body, and hence can attain higher levels in both fitness and longevity.
Makes total sense to me :¬)
I see a few different things:
Being tough is a mental configuration. The physical challenge that comes with some forms of exercise is not always connected with one 'trying to be tough' or intentionally inflicting pain upon ones self. There is a difference between muscle fatigue and being violent towards yourself. I don't think that the farmers that have to work long days in the field lifting, moving things, planting etc, have the mental configuration of thinking their tough. I also don't think the old native americans who lived in a tribal lifestyle saw hunting/fishing etc as a form of them being tough or inflicting pain upon themselves. Yet some form of pain was surely a by-product of this seeking.
Lets look at Carla's experience channeling Ra...was it completely comfortable? no. Was there pain involved? yes...yet her desire for service and balance overrode the desire for physical (and mental) comfort.
It's a fine balance...because at the same time (in most cases) if you have a broken leg...you don't keep walking. You must be good to yourself. Rest and heal knowing that this is the balance that will be more beneficial in the long run.
Also there is seeking comfort in contrast with seeking balance, which are different things. We all desire comfort and often associate it with a positive experience..yet to attain the balance one desires, whether physical or mental, (or both) experiencing some form of inner or outer pain may be and probably will be a reality for the seeker. This doesn't mean 'trying to be tough' or being violent towards yourself. It is simply a part of the path.
In physical fitness the seeming pain that you experience during the various movements may be uncomfortable...but it may afford you better health and longevity in the long run. It may contribute to making all the physical aspects in your life more comfortable because you have strengthened the body to a point where physical activity of all kinds come with more ease. A short period of "pain"...affording you more comfort in the long run. Maybe the only reason there is physical pain there during the movements is because there is a lack of balance in the body and that lack of balance is coming to the surface through the movement. This thought is excluding the reality of being injured.
-Pain in its various forms
-the love of physical movement and expressing Power and Will through the body in various ways
-Trying to be tough
-Making (short sighted) unwise decisions in the face of injury/imbalance
-Seeking comfort
Those who love movement and expressing Power/Will in healthy ways through the body may experience physical challenges in the form of pain as muscle fatigue...this is not always coming from a place of self violence or wanting to be 'tough'. For many it is the love of movement and bodily expression. I for one love to be physically active. To get to where I have gotten on a fitness level I have experienced pain in various forms...but I find that the temporary pain in the form of muscle fatigue affords me more physical comfort and more energy in the long run. I have also experienced injury due to pushing too hard too soon...and this I see as unwise...to contrast that... I have experienced injury also simply due to accidents/missteps taken during various movements.
So I think we are talking about a few different things here that may or may not be (depending on the person) tied together in a more complex way than they seem at first sight.
(08-02-2015, 06:56 PM)Diana Wrote: [ -> ]To give ourselves a break, I think one origin of this attitude is developed in childhood, when some of us had very difficult situations to handle in dysfunctional families. And children are survivors—so they learn to push through the pain to survive.
yes, I definitely think there is that aspect as well. Just trying to 'survive', given some very unsupportive environmental factors.
Sometimes the time/conditions are not conducive to healing, and re-examining the causative factors of pain.
For example, it's only just recently I've been able to go back and look at some of the trauma I've had around the concept of 'death'. One of my favourite aunts died when I was aged 6 or 7, and it's only some three decades later that I've truly realised how shocking that was to me (it was a very sudden loss - car accident). No real sense of closure, and it's like someone I loved dearly just up and departed from my life with no explanation (to a child's mind).
So painful stuff gets buried ... for a very good reason.
(08-03-2015, 03:57 PM)Viewer Wrote: [ -> ]So I think we are talking about a few different things here that may or may not be (depending on the person) tied together in a more complex way than they seem at first sight.
yes, I would definitely make the distinction between true pain, and something which one might consider as just discomfort/uncomfortable.
Being uncomfortable or being discomforted by something is part of the learning experience - to use a cliche, it takes us beyond our 'comfort zone'. We need to be stimulated to grow and expand, and face new and unfamiliar things. The comfort zone is definitely something that can become something restrictive to our higher purpose. Even avoiding pain can become habitual in our comfort zone.
I think the issue that I personally had was that I started mixing these two concepts, so that they started becoming undiscernable for me.
That is, I developed a tolerance for 'pain' - pain here being something that leads towards injury, self-damage - and just writing that off as discomfort/being uncomfortable.
The example that comes to mind is that about 3 years ago, I started getting back into physical fitness and running. I hadn't run in quite a long time, and so I was really pushing myself in the first couple of weeks. During one run I was ignoring the strong signals of pain in my right foot, and it got stronger and stronger as I kept going. I didn't stop. Eventually it became excruciating, and I couldn't continue. I think I gave myself a foot fracture from that experience (I didn't get it checked out by a doctor, but it did heal after 5-6 weeks of strong discomfort). I had never had a foot injury before, and I just wrote off my pain during running as discomfort, and pushed myself through it to the point of injury.
Anyway, I do agree with you that it's a more complex issue. I think you've fleshed out many of the other related points.
(08-03-2015, 05:32 PM)Bring4th_Plenum Wrote: [ -> ] (08-02-2015, 06:56 PM)Diana Wrote: [ -> ]To give ourselves a break, I think one origin of this attitude is developed in childhood, when some of us had very difficult situations to handle in dysfunctional families. And children are survivors—so they learn to push through the pain to survive.
yes, I definitely think there is that aspect as well. Just trying to 'survive', given some very unsupportive environmental factors.
Sometimes the time/conditions are not conducive to healing, and re-examining the causative factors of pain.
For example, it's only just recently I've been able to go back and look at some of the trauma I've had around the concept of 'death'. One of my favourite aunts died when I was aged 6 or 7, and it's only some three decades later that I've truly realised how shocking that was to me (it was a very sudden loss - car accident). No real sense of closure, and it's like someone I loved dearly just up and departed from my life with no explanation (to a child's mind).
So painful stuff gets buried ... for a very good reason.
(08-03-2015, 03:57 PM)Viewer Wrote: [ -> ]So I think we are talking about a few different things here that may or may not be (depending on the person) tied together in a more complex way than they seem at first sight.
yes, I would definitely make the distinction between true pain, and something which one might consider as just discomfort/uncomfortable.
Being uncomfortable or being discomforted by something is part of the learning experience - to use a cliche, it takes us beyond our 'comfort zone'. We need to be stimulated to grow and expand, and face new and unfamiliar things. The comfort zone is definitely something that can become something restrictive to our higher purpose. Even avoiding pain can become habitual in our comfort zone.
I think the issue that I personally had was that I started mixing these two concepts, so that they started becoming undiscernable for me.
That is, I developed a tolerance for 'pain' - pain here being something that leads towards injury, self-damage - and just writing that off as discomfort/being uncomfortable.
The example that comes to mind is that about 3 years ago, I started getting back into physical fitness and running. I hadn't run in quite a long time, and so I was really pushing myself in the first couple of weeks. During one run I was ignoring the strong signals of pain in my right foot, and it got stronger and stronger as I kept going. I didn't stop. Eventually it became excruciating, and I couldn't continue. I think I gave myself a foot fracture from that experience (I didn't get it checked out by a doctor, but it did heal after 5-6 weeks of strong discomfort). I had never had a foot injury before, and I just wrote off my pain during running as discomfort, and pushed myself through it to the point of injury.
Anyway, I do agree with you that it's a more complex issue. I think you've fleshed out many of the other related points.
ah, that helps me understand your OP a little bit better. I figured you were speaking of muscle fatigue because all you mentioned running and the result being pain.