i know this is not a pleasant subject but i am curious about how others feel
about what would be considered an obvious evil. the reality is that we live in a reality where horrible things transpire everyday and we have to deal with
them as best we can.
personally i dont feel any love or compassion for beings such as this. if it was up to me they would either be killed or put somewhere apart from the rest of society to live out their . i could care less about their welfare i just
want it so that they could not harm the rest of society. to me the whole
thing with the catholic church and their molestation problem is a great
great evil which has been covered up by the church. i cant forgive the
church for that .
anyway im curious if others see things like this in a similar way, if there
are souls on this board who could actually have compassion for these people
and if you do why do you feel compassion for them
peace and love
norral
I have compassion for them, but not their actions. Ending their current incarnation early is not a task I would wish on myself or anyone else, nor would I wish it even for them. As co-creators, I feel they have every right to be here too.
Hi norral. Thanks for your honesty.
Violence does not solve violence, just fear does not combat fear. This is a perpetual downward cycle/spiral which leads only to more fear, more hate, and more violence. The only thing that combats fear is light, and love.
In this 3D experience, there are many Minds that are unawakened and STS orientated. Many of these have had experiences in life that have pushed them in this direction. Indeed, many people who carry out this kind of action were victims in their own childhood (including past incarnations), and 'turn into the monster they despise'. It's this hatred that consumes them, leading them down the same path of fear and darkness.
Once has to remember that souls are eternal, and this experience is entirely for learning, growing, and awakening to love. It's a huge task, to be able to show compassion and love to those that commit such actions, but this is the nature of catalysts and 3D.
I by no means condone such actions, however, one has to accept their happening in order to remain balanced and connected with Source. If such things invoke hatred or the urge to kill, your own mind/body/spirit complex is blocked, and this can effect not only yourself and your actions, but also the Earth's unified consciousness.
A quote from Yoda of all 'people', incredibly profound with regards to the Law of One and positive/negative polarity:
Quote:Remember, a Jedi's strength flows from the Force. But beware. Anger, fear, aggression. The dark side are they. Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny. Do not underestimate the powers of the Emperor or suffer your father's fate you will.
We're here to bring peace and love at these times of chaotic catalysts. This is why countless prophets, channelled Beings and gurus say now is an incredible time to live, as one can learn and grow the soul at an incredible rate.
One final thing; Ra mentioned that karma is based on forgiveness; forgiveness is the key to releasing karma. The more you hold against others, the more karma/resistance you hold for yourself. Look deep in yourself, and find the cause of your feelings. Once you find the core of them, comfort them, send them love.
For the record, I do feel compassion for them, and do forgive them, purely because they are unawakened and confused.
Great question, norral! and beautifully said, Namaste!
Here's an analogy that might help illustrate what Namaste just said:
Think of a fire. Does pouring gasoline on the fire put it out?
No, it only feeds the flames!
Responding to fear/hate/violence with more fear/hate/violence is like pouring gasoline onto a raging fire.
Whereas, responding with love/peace/forgiveness is like pouring water on it!
That's NOT to say we just allow child molesters to continue their actions! Child molesters are very sick indeed, and until there is a cure for their illness, I propose locking them up and throwing away the key. That way, they can live out their lives, and hopefully, eventually, reflect on their actions. Spiritual healers could visit them and maybe they might find healing, even though they live the rest of their lives in prison. But I think it's a grave mistake to ever turn them loose again, where they can harm another child.
Now, I can have this opinion and still love and forgive them! As we find the love in the present moment, that includes them. As we see the Creator in this other-self, we help them in their healing process. We can do that from afar, with our prayers and good wishes. Or, if so inclined, we might visit them and minister to them in some way, or maybe work on a way to help heal their illness.
We can simultaneously love/forgive them, and yet keep them off the streets.
Fighting their violence with more violence won't accomplish anything. Their soul won't get healed, and they'll just reincarnate again with the same emotional baggage. By looking at the big picture of multiple lifetimes, it can help to understand why some souls experience such horrors, as well as instigate such horrors.
A book that really helped me a lot in understanding how karma works is Many Mansions by Gina Cerminara. It's based on the Edgar Cayce readings and very scholarly written. It's in alignment with the Law of One in that it states the forgiveness breaks the cycle of karma.
We can forgive while, at the same time, refusing to let someone victimize us or others.
I would surmise that most of these child molesters are just very confused and sick souls, in need of healing. Our love and compassion might just help them stop their destructive pattern.
Looking at it logically: If you make your enemy your friend, then he won't bother you anymore, right? It's sort of like that. If our love and compassion, and yes, forgiveness, helps even one child molester to heal, then the world will have 1 less child molester to deal with!
(I still wouldn't want him on the street, since there's no way to know for sure whether he's really healed or not.)
Many of the people we consider very 'evil' are just really messed up and in need of healing. Or, some of them might be graduating to 4D negative. The STS entities have their role to play in the Grand Design too.
Since we don't know (by their actions) whether the violent person is polarizing to STS or just a lost soul in need of healing, the solution is always the same: Beam love/light/compassion/forgiveness to them.
We might have been where they're at, once upon a time. We've probably all been guilty of heinous acts in past lives. As we forgive the other-self, we forgive ourselves.
The Santanic Evil that they are will be exposed within the bowels of the Vatican.. follow the money. The church is about to go through a complete overhaul and the evils that they have pertuated by our complicity will be revealed. Now it is up to humanity to either make a change and Forgive and learn or not.
I believe child molesters are made not born. There are two kinds... ones that are born human and are made that way by the way they are raised and the values that are imprinted into thier psyche and the other kind are visitors and are actually AI Black Hats type that are here to mine the negativity and trauma and terror they create and to use this energy as a food source.
fairyfarmgirl
thanks everybody for the answers. its very helpfull to see anothers take on this issue and compare it to mine. some wonderfull analogies there
Namaste i love that quote by Yoda . As im reading it i can see and hear
him as he speaks. I thanks all of you
norral
For me, revulsion is a natural reaction from an STO being to abuse and trauma toward any other living being. However, allowing this revulsion to grow into hatred doesn't feel right to me, either. We can choose to transmute that hatred into love. What is it the Christians say? Hate the sin but love the sinner? Something like that. There are lots of people out there who do things I find horrible, but I'm not about to let my revulsion towards their *acts* make me lose sight of the their essential Divinity as reflections of the Infinite Creator that is all.
I choose STO and unity. Forgiveness breaks the wheel of Karma.
Just my take on it.
Love to all
An inspirational story Pab - thank you for sharing.
thanks Pablisimo for sharing. let me make one general comment. abusers are
basically bullies and sadists. there was a story in florida where a a guy abducted a 11 year old girl from behind a car wash raped her burned her
body and dumped here in a trash dump. i would have no problem beating the hell out of that guy with a baseball bat no problem at all , having it taped and shown to molesters and telling them we are coming after you you are next. they only understand one thing and that is fear. so i have no problem
generating some fear. my 13 year old granddaughter was playing in the front
of the house with her 10 year old friend and an older guy called them over
to his car. unfortunately i didnt hear about it until it was over. if i had known i would have run outside and pulled him out of the car and roughed him up a little bit. these people are like cockroaches they like to operate in the dark , they hate being exposed but we need to shed some light on this.
my wife works for a school district and they get alerts to be on the lookout
for these guys. she showed me a picture of a guy he had to be about
6 foot 5 inches and 250. he had done time for raping a 14 year old girl
and was now released into the community. what would i do with him
guess what it wouldnt be sending love to him. they need to feel some of the pain they have caused others . to me the most loving thing we can do for them is let them understand that there will be physical
consequences for your acts. if that is "wrong " to some so be it it feels right to me.
let me add one other thing we had an incident in our family where someone was trying to make life miserable for one of us and the guy was a jerk. we tried to resolve it by going to the police. no such luck .
this guy wouldnt stop. me and my sons took care of it. we didnt hurt
him but we scared the hell out of him. that was the language he
understood and he only got the message when we communicated at that
level. im a peacefull guy but im a not so passive that i am going to let
you walk all over me.
norral
I have no qualms about defending my children or any child anywhere that I am even if it means death for me or the other person... Although the name of my game has become "stay embodied" Peace does not mean doormat.
Compassionate lock up is the best solution--- preferably off world and in solitary confinement. Compassionately created as well.
fairyfarmgirl
Yet 5 out of 6 cases of abuse are caused by people who know the children. Statistically speaking kids are safer when they are with strangers than when they are with family or friends. Almost 70% of abusers are related to the child through the education system, school bus drivers, teachers and coaches. Want to protect your kid? Take them out of school... Over 1 third of the abused kids report being abused by females. Yet only 0.4% of the convicted abusers were female. Maybe there is some prejudice going on?
The idea that it's always some social misfit who operates from his car is simply not true. As the numbers prove it's mostly people within the education system. People you know and trust.
Roughing someone up just because he talks to a child he doesn't know sounds to me to be a knee jerk response. What if he wanted to know the way out of the suburbs? What if your kid was throwing stones at his car? No questions no explanations just beat the crap out of them?
How would you feel Norral if you saw a kid crying alone in a mall. You comforted them and walked them towards the nearest mall security station and on the way there get beaten up when daddy suddenly shows up?
I know that many men today would refuse to help a crying and unattended child out of fear for being marked as a potential abuser. Being marked an abuser even if proven innocent later on is a severely traumatizing and stigmatizing experience.
Yeah it's a problem, but it's not going to get better by losing our heads over it. And it sounds like some of you are blinded with anger over this. I understand the anger, the abuse is very damaging to a child (and I mean child abuse, I don't mean consensual sex with someone in late puberty.) But this does not allow us to feel righteous in lashing out left and right.
I've known a few people who have been abused as a child. I have seen their emotional and psychological scars. I have seen their maladjusted sexual behaviors. I have talked to them about it. As a psychologist I've studied the phenomenon. I know it's reality and I know how damaging it is.
However, right now you US guys have a system where a guy (usually the guy) gets marked as a sexual offender for life if he happens to get caught sleeping with his girlfriend who is 2 or three years younger than him... While he just turned 18.... I'm sorry, but that does not qualify as sexual abuse in my book. I'd be a sexual offender for the same reason. I had an under age girlfriend when I was barely of age myself. The difference between us was 2.5 years... I was a virgin, she wasn't... She initiated the sex. (I would not even have known how to do that) And we stuck together for many years after that. Sexual abuse according to the American legal system... And it's knee jerk responses and prejudices that allowed things to get to that point. Might I remind you that on another note an american brand started selling push up bra's for preteens? What's wrong with this picture?
I would suggest that with this as with everything else understanding is the best first step. From understanding comes directed and sensible action. Without it come knee-jerk prejudiced responses. Keeping an eye out for your kids also helps.
Ali
he was not asking for directions he wanted to offer them something
he was a molester. no im not going to just go and beat somebody up
because they might stop but this guy was a molester. im not even really
that angry about the whole thing but i am not going to let someone
do something and stand by and worry about the molester, i dont care
about the molesters and abusers and what made them that way i just want them away from children. pedophilia is rampant here in the u.s. and i dont
like pedophiles period and if i know someone is a ped he will not be around
any children if im aware of it. i dont go around beating up people lol
but for example as i said that guy in florida i would gladly gladly beat him to a bloody pulp with a baseball bat. that would actually be too good for him
to me he is a piece of ____. I think it would be interesting to set up a chat on this if we could because communicating of the internet is the worst way
to communicate. you misunderstood what i was saying. anyway
its interesting but part of the problem in society today imho is that there is no punishment people are not afraid of being punished its all to
antiseptic for me. i just dont have much sympathy for those who commit
atrocities. hey when i walked out of the movie sophies choice i was
royally pissed because of the evil arrogance of those nazi creeps.
i dont like injustice i dont like seeing others suffer and i dont like those who cause others to suffer. thats who i am but i am not a loose cannon
but i will also speak up when i see people screwing others and it has caused me to have some confrontations but i dont care i will not standby
meekly when i see something i dont like
cheers
norral
Norral, without condoning the behavior that those people exhibit, I can say that it's much easier to judge or label another based on their actions than it is to do so to yourself. And yet, when you judge another, you are judging your own self, because we all come from the same place. We're all one. It's very hard to see this when another self is so distorted and confused as to commit to actions such as child molesting. As a society, we need healing. In this situation, the ultimate goal would be to have nobody exhibiting child molesting behavior. This can be brought about in two ways - a negative way or a positive way.
You're starting down that negative path of control of other-self when you think that you know all of what another is just because of a behavior that they partake in. When you see the anger brought about by their behavior as something external rather than self-induced, that's losing focus. When you can go so far as to say "I would gladly beat him to a bloody pulp", you're losing sight of oneness. (But who can blame you? These human emotions arise because of the situation presented and you are the human experiencer of them. I'm not saying that you shouldn't be angry at someone who exhibits child molesting behavior. I'm trying to point out that a lesson is wrapped up in your reaction like a gift given to you.)
How can we come to a point where no-one exhibits child molesting behavior the positive way? Our society is kinda geared towards the negative, so our impulsive response is one like the one you experience now, Norral. It's one of anger and fear, of misunderstanding and complication. We seek justice by punishment. I would offer that it's possible to communicate with people who exhibit these behaviors and offer them a wider perspective so that they may see their behavior as destructive. At the same time, prevent your children from being abused. But if you physically go farther than prevention, you've crossed the line to control and aggression.
Love to you.
It's a sticky issue and something that can't be solved in a day! But the change in our society does start at the personal level. How our society operates as we move into the future starts with you.
I fully agree with Aaron, that said, prevention might include beating someone to a pulp, prevention might be hurting someone who is out to hurt you yours or others...
So I don't necessarily disagree with violence when the only alternative is innocent people suffering. These situations do happen. I agree with your basic instinct to protect your grandchildren Norral, and perhaps you were right this time. I certainly am in a much worse position than you to judge this.
However, like Aaron says, this is approaching the negative and we might cross the line and actually find ourselves as offenders before we know it. Especially if the universe pulls a bait and switch on us. We respond as if a situation is one thing while it is the other. I think this is also happening on a large scale in the mind of people with all the media coverage given.
Men, lets be fair, most of them are not pedophiles, yet these days it sometimes seems that all of them are treated as potential ones. In all fairness. They could just be regular murderers, rapists, highwaymen or even just petty thieves. Heck the rare thing could occur and a man could actually be quite a decent guy.
We're blinding ourselves to the truth and enveloping ourselves in fear if we allow ourselves to think that way.
I have had no experience with child molesterers but I do have something to say about protection along the positive path.
I used to experience the occasional negative situation. And what I learned was how inefficient the use of negativity is. For instance, say somebody attacks me and I close down their heart chakra, as a sort of 'energetic harming', we're assuming this person has relatively low awareness. If the situation is serious enough isn't a closed heart chakra going to make the situation worse of me?
More specifically to the situation though. I think these people have created their own hell! I highly doubt a man who is 6'5'' and can brutalise a 14 year old girl has even a sliver of even the most basic pleasures of interaction and living that most of us on this forum do.
I think child molesters were usually molested or 'fiddled with' in some way themselves.
Thus the cycle of pain continues until someone at the end of the line says no to it.
we can choose, to some extent, our reaction to some of the deliberate infringements that come our way.
(03-14-2012, 02:21 PM)plenum Wrote: [ -> ]deliberate infringements
This is also connected with the "protection" thread.
Not all thoughts are ours, just as not all impulses are always "us". There is an amazing change in certain individuals once their "controller" is removed.
Our world is a result of what we have collectively created. All crimes are part of that. All distortions, and choices, are complex, and many factors could be considered.
Just as in the case of one's own childhood, one cannot "blame" one's parents, because their behaviors could be linked to their parents, and their behavior to their parents and so on. So blame makes no sense.
Let's talk about a child molester.
(In no way do my comments diminish the pain caused by child-molestation, nor do I "not care" about the "victims.")
Child molesters may be distorted in this manner because of trauma in childhood where their sexuality did not mature past a certain age, or any variety of reasons why they are not healthy in this area. They may be seen to be making an STS choice. But I have observed that people in pain always do this; their worlds become very small, and they are focused on themselves because the pain (physical or mental or emotional) forces their attention. It is still a choice, but if you compare a person who had a nice childhood where there was always enough money and love, to a person who grew up in challenging circumstances, you may see that choosing to be of service is quite a different effort.
Now let's talk about our current legal system and the way we deal with crimes.
Our prison/criminal system deals with crime by punishing. I would like to see all prisons become places of healing. This could be done by showing the prisoners that they can be loved, through plants (gardening), and animals (caring for pets), and finally human love (acceptance). You might respond then, that everyone would want to go to prison since the environment would be so nice. But that would be good if they needed healing. And if they were healed, they wouldn't need or want to come back; they could lead a productive, healthy life without the need to fill the holes from lack of love, childhood traumas, etc.
I know this sounds idealistic, and it wouldn't be easy to change overnight. But a vision of what we could become is always part of growth and evolution. And if one wants a world of "love," it seems to me it would include all and everything--one wouldn't selectively choose who or what to love (that's what we do now), rather, one would have a "love" mindset which permeates all things.
We get stuck in our grooves. Lateral thinking is always a good exercise when considering any issue.
(05-02-2010, 02:02 PM)norral Wrote: [ -> ]i know this is not a pleasant subject but i am curious about how others feel
about what would be considered an obvious evil. the reality is that we live in a reality where horrible things transpire everyday and we have to deal with
them as best we can.
personally i dont feel any love or compassion for beings such as this. if it was up to me they would either be killed or put somewhere apart from the rest of society to live out their . i could care less about their welfare i just
want it so that they could not harm the rest of society. to me the whole
thing with the catholic church and their molestation problem is a great
great evil which has been covered up by the church. i cant forgive the
church for that .
anyway im curious if others see things like this in a similar way, if there
are souls on this board who could actually have compassion for these people
and if you do why do you feel compassion for them
peace and love
norral
IMO, this is the crime most deserving of the death penalty. And not just sexual crimes against children. Murder doesn't even come close to where I rank this crime.
(03-14-2012, 03:33 PM)Diana Wrote: [ -> ]Our world is a result of what we have collectively created. All crimes are part of that. All distortions, and choices, are complex, and many factors could be considered.
Just as in the case of one's own childhood, one cannot "blame" one's parents, because their behaviors could be linked to their parents, and their behavior to their parents and so on. So blame makes no sense.
Let's talk about a child molester.
(In no way do my comments diminish the pain caused by child-molestation, nor do I "not care" about the "victims.")
Child molesters may be distorted in this manner because of trauma in childhood where their sexuality did not mature past a certain age, or any variety of reasons why they are not healthy in this area. They may be seen to be making an STS choice. But I have observed that people in pain always do this; their worlds become very small, and they are focused on themselves because the pain (physical or mental or emotional) forces their attention. It is still a choice, but if you compare a person who had a nice childhood where there was always enough money and love, to a person who grew up in challenging circumstances, you may see that choosing to be of service is quite a different effort.
Now let's talk about our current legal system and the way we deal with crimes.
Our prison/criminal system deals with crime by punishing. I would like to see all prisons become places of healing. This could be done by showing the prisoners that they can be loved, through plants (gardening), and animals (caring for pets), and finally human love (acceptance). You might respond then, that everyone would want to go to prison since the environment would be so nice. But that would be good if they needed healing. And if they were healed, they wouldn't need or want to come back; they could lead a productive, healthy life without the need to fill the holes from lack of love, childhood traumas, etc.
I know this sounds idealistic, and it wouldn't be easy to change overnight. But a vision of what we could become is always part of growth and evolution. And if one wants a world of "love," it seems to me it would include all and everything--one wouldn't selectively choose who or what to love (that's what we do now), rather, one would have a "love" mindset which permeates all things.
We get stuck in our grooves. Lateral thinking is always a good exercise when considering any issue.
Beautiful idea, Diana!
(03-14-2012, 04:52 PM)3DMonkey Wrote: [ -> ]IMO, this is the crime most deserving of the death penalty. And not just sexual crimes against children. Murder doesn't even come close to where I rank this crime.
That won't solve anything. They'll just reincarnate with the same perversions and do it again.
I've heard about some awesome projects they have here in Sweden, where the victim gets to meet the victimizer. The results are amazing. Most of the times, they both start crying and forgiving. The rate of criminal acts when prisoners are later released from the jail drastically decreases. They should start these projects everywhere, so that the criminals will meet the victims, and hear their story of how their act affected the victims and their lives. And the victim will meet the criminal and see that it's a person too, and learn how to forgive, and to not be afraid.
(03-14-2012, 11:30 PM)Ankh Wrote: [ -> ]I've heard about some awesome projects they have here in Sweden, where the victim gets to meet the victimizer. The results are amazing. Most of the times, they both start crying and forgiving. The rate of criminal acts when prisoners are later released from the jail drastically decreases. They should start these projects everywhere, so that the criminals will meet the victims, and hear their story of how their act affected the victims and their lives. And the victim will meet the criminal and see that it's a person too, and learn how to forgive, and to not be afraid.
WOW!!! That's incredible! I had no idea such a spiritually advanced program was in place anywhere! Sweden sounds very progressive in many ways.
People learn how to forgive the deceased in therapy as well. It's all catalyst and it can all reach the point of transformation.
I say kill em and then forgive them.
(03-15-2012, 12:27 PM)3DMonkey Wrote: [ -> ]People learn how to forgive the deceased in therapy as well. It's all catalyst and it can all reach the point of transformation.
I say kill em and then forgive them.
i guess it is easier to talk about it in the abstract than in the personal. i have thought what if someone did something to one of our grandkids. i know what i would do. i honestly would find it impossible to forgive. to me harming children is a violation of a very basic and impenetrable boundary. i dont want to hear about why this person did it. i want to personally make sure that they understand very clearly that there are consequences for going beyond those boundaries. there is absolutely nothing wrong with someone suffering the consequences of their acts. and one other thing, people look at it as though wait u beat the hell out of them that is not allowed that is not loving. from my perspective that is the most loving thing u can do. u are letting them know that if they want to go there there is a price to pay.absolutely nothing wrong with that imo. what is evil to me is acting as though it is ok to molest and that there are no consequences. i consider that evil. and just to fill in the blanks i dont think i would kill the person but i might .
part of the reason evil exists in this world is because there are no consequences for actions. look at the bankers, do they suffer any consequences for their evil. NO !! but u can rest assured if they had the
---- beat out of them for charging interest rates of 25% that interest rates would be 2%. why because they are bullies and bullies are cowards.
so i would argue that the most loving thing we can do to those who commit evil is to make it so uncomfortable for them that they wil absolutely refuse to do it again out of fear. nothing wrong with that.
norral
I would want to murder them, but I would resist because I still have a life to live with them without being behind bars.
There is an actual, real life, woman who was unsatisfied with the court's sentence of the man that violated her child, so she shot him dead. She then went to prison. She says now that it was a big mistake.
Of course we aren't advocating assault. We are speaking about the sentiment in our perspective.
If it happened to my child, I would turn into an animal temporarily, just long enough to rend the person into pieces.
I am just an animal with an upgraded program, still capable of connecting to my roots.
Illogical, but I know what I am and what I am capable of.
(03-14-2012, 03:33 PM)Diana Wrote: [ -> ]I would like to see all prisons become places of healing. This could be done by showing the prisoners that they can be loved, through plants (gardening), and animals (caring for pets), and finally human love (acceptance).
There's a prison over in Norway or Sweden that does something similar to that. No bars, no locked doors..it's just sort of a campus with all kinds of activity. And it works. The number of repeat offenders is extremely low.
thats fine . the most loving thing u can do to someone who is an abuser of children , women, whatever is to punch them in the mouth. give them a wake up call so that they understand there are consequences. it is the only way they will wake up and it is the best thing for them imho. i have no problem with doing that and i have done it in the past when someone messed with my family and i will do it in the future if needs be. and it felt good and right when i did it. and it stopped the abuse. just because most people dont see a punch in the mouth as a loving act doesnt mean that it isnt. there is a time and a season for everything . and i dont hate the abusers and i didnt hate them when i smacked them. they pissed me off and i had enuf. absolutely nothing wrong with that in norrals world.
