Bring4th

I need to figure this out.

The OIC is I, not a 'God', thus there is no God except I, and I am not a God.

There is no clear concise or otherwise available explanation as to the Point/Reason/Purpose of Existence, until there is one it seems more likely that I simply could not conceive or comprehend an answer in any way that would be acceptable.  As such, I do believe there's a chance all of this is for nothing beyond self perpetuating, for no reason underlying all the rest.  Emptiness containing finity and infinity, still inherently empty.

I believe in a OIC, a 'Higher' gradiant of I across infinity.  I believe in intelligence, infinity, consciousness, 'Love' as a Law.  Yet I understand this is all without a 'Why' in my mind.

And I came to realize I was literally a paradox only in the outward view.  Inwardly wise I still feel the anger and frustrations of not knowing but it at least isn't nonsensically differently/similar.  I get its paradoxxyish.  I understand myself enough to know and believe in myself.,

But I always seem to grow still and stop treading by choice.  I don't like this set up.  It makes no sense to me.  But I tread it still.

Why?

There is no why.  There's nothing else to do.

The purpose/meaning/etc of existence can only be very simple. That's kind of why we've got an original thought.

Consider that your impression of not being the Creator is due to the veil, else you'd be very well aware that you are the Creator in your own Creation, playing the game you set for yourself.

Why refer to it as a game??
Is it literally 'a game'?

(10-12-2015, 10:11 AM)The_Tired_Philosopher Wrote: [ -> ]Why refer to it as a game??
Is it literally 'a game'?

There is one being all of us, seems like a RPG. Not quite a MMO because there's only one player.

I think of it like a game. Even the struggles can be fun in the context of a great challenge set up for oneself, to see how one performs.

But, I mean.  Everything?  Beyond 3D what's the point?

It's a game?

I too think of it like a game, but is it All a game??

Well, Ra says the Choice in 3D is the "axis upon which Creation turns", so I think the rest of Creation is reacting to the game that is occurring in 3D.

I think this is ultimately why polarity is said to not matter, because the higher densities need the bad guys to muck things up so that they can come in and be the heroes. All is equal because all is necessary. We set up our own "game" within this system of rules to see what we can do as "individual" sparks of the Creator (of course ironically with lots of help from unseen buddies). But, yes, I think it is healthy to see it all as a form of "play" and not as a form of "work".

(10-12-2015, 11:33 AM)The_Tired_Philosopher Wrote: [ -> ]But, I mean.  Everything?  Beyond 3D what's the point?

It's a game?

I too think of it like a game, but is it All a game??

Beyond 3D you have the same goal of reaching back to the source (ending the game), in short to become yourself again to be play a new role in the next level (Octave). To whole game is made up of roles being played out, whatever the level. The game is infinite with infinite octaves before and after your current one where every role is played out simultaneouely for it to work. Infinity probably is infinite in infinite manners..

Yeah it is All a game, a dream, a thought, a storybook.. think of it however you like as it is simply what fills the void.

It is illusion in the sense that everything could be extremely different in ways we can't really imagine. The experience of it is definitely real, although belief systems can be definitely wrong while veiled. I think the veil is a powerful tool. Once the growth of those who went through it will be observed, the veil will be explored much more as it's fruits will be further understood.

Is the idea that Creation is fundamentally here to be enjoyed really such a horrible thought?

I sometimes wonder if all this spiritual stuff is real. I mean I've never had proof.

(10-12-2015, 01:21 PM)IndigoGeminiWolf Wrote: [ -> ]I sometimes wonder if all this spiritual stuff is real. I mean I've never had proof.

I have the same thought sometimes. That's why i believe faith and experience are paramount to existence. I've had some full blown mystical experiences that were so intense one couldn't come from such a state and not believe that their is something. The only problem is all of the undeniable experiences came from psychedelic use of shrooms and dmt. Since i wanted a deeper validation of the experiences I've been trying to recreate or surpass the experience while sober for the sake of validation to myself. If i can do it without an external substances the realness of the experience to me would be magnified exponentially as well as my faith would be magnified

@ APeacefulWarrior. I feel if life did have a point it would be to just enjoy it. to just experience it. I feel though that many people don't think that because it gives em no direction. 

Faith is an important aspect of spirituality i think its equal with love and wisdom. I have a rather interesting story of being not really interested in spirituality having been brought up with really the only spirtuality as Christianity as taught through the local school, when i say taught i mean the odd prayer and going to the church on Easter/Christmas singing some songs etc, nothing really intensive. I never though much about spirit when i was younger in fact i would often laught at some of the teachings in the bible as being simply wrong as proven by history/science/common sense, however i always had a great interested in the unknown the mystery or the paranormal that lead me into the seeking of the creator. I guess you could call that my faith, its the seeking of truth the mystery and wonder of what the universe and the self is that keeps my faith going. The higher self and the creator are perhaps in a sense crutchs until one is ready to fully become ones true self and create ones very own reality through loving will.

We experience all that we need to experience and learn all that we need to learn to become all that we wish to become and already are at heart.

I don't like church. The one I went to made you tithe 10% of your income, and made you confess your "sins" to each other. Of which you were judged.

(10-12-2015, 02:51 PM)upensmoke Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-12-2015, 01:21 PM)IndigoGeminiWolf Wrote: [ -> ]I sometimes wonder if all this spiritual stuff is real. I mean I've never had proof.

I have the same thought sometimes. That's why i believe faith and experience are paramount to existence. I've had some full blown mystical experiences that were so intense one couldn't come from such a state and not believe that their is something. The only problem is all of the undeniable experiences came from psychedelic use of shrooms and dmt. Since i wanted a deeper validation of the experiences I've been trying to recreate or surpass the experience while sober for the sake of validation to myself. If i can do it without an external substances the realness of the experience to me would be magnified exponentially as well as my faith would be magnified

@ APeacefulWarrior. I feel if life did have a point it would be to just enjoy it. to just experience it. I feel though that many people don't think that because it gives em no direction. 

One time I asked something profound from Ra, and they showed me the inside of the sun. It lasted like an hour the experience. I could see and feel my distortions. So I have had some evidence. But I keep forgetting that.

(10-12-2015, 01:21 PM)IndigoGeminiWolf Wrote: [ -> ]I sometimes wonder if all this spiritual stuff is real. I mean I've never had proof.

It's real.  I've had far more proof of this than of the notion that the Earth is round.  (Not that I doubt that the Earth is round, obviously, but I've definitely had more direct, experiental proof of the Law of One teachings).

At this very moment, I'm writing a document and friendly aliens have just dictated the entire thing to me. It's a lot of fun, and I feel very loved and cared for.

I am a skeptic at heart, but my faith in the Law of One derives from scientifically (as much as I could from what Ra provided info wise) testing Work in Consciousness and finding out first hand for several months while sober and smoking, that its real.  Just hard work.

I have faith.  But I'm tired of the game.  Its a game.  Its.  A game, for fun?

That, what...Tortures, rapes, bombs, and destroys others in all ways, sometimes for fun?

How do I accept a game of reality doing such cruel things to self aware unaware living creatures (3D) as a fun game that is yet, very real.

I don't condone the method with approval as much as I do with powerlessness.  Its the same thing in this world.

I'm okay with veils as the reason.  I'm still not okay with the extent of bs that happens to some while here.

Animal factory farming, human genetic experimentation, child sex and labor slavery, rape and torture for decades at a time.

Its a lot.  For the name of anything.  And souls just go along with it, like a game.

Am I not supposed to be disturbed?

Quote:That, what...Tortures, rapes, bombs, and destroys others in all ways, sometimes for fun?

How do I accept a game of reality doing such cruel things to self aware unaware living creatures (3D) as a fun game that is yet, very real.

We have literal games in our reality that we play to experience such horrors. We watch TV shows and movies and read books that depict these acts. We're masochistic. There is pleasure in the pain. There is learning through direct experience and also through vicarious experience in these situations. Also, a lot of the horrors you speak of are karmic. We mess up then we punish ourselves. We succeed and we are rewarded. Much like a game.

That uses self aware unaware living entities with dreams and desires as cannon fodder and living sex toys regardless of person for another's dreams and desires?

I'm still not finding the appeal here  :-/

I had that realization while writing a scene for my book that got a bit dark.  I realized even play and 'make-believe' are still real in some sense.  Its why I apologize to enemies I kill in games now, avoid FPS games (and I LOVE FPS games), and just.

I don't know.  Never did.  Thought I did but I really didn't.

I just want to stop justifying 'real suffering' by calling it a game.  I'm tired of people hurting and being unable to even dent that hurt for another.

Is it just as easily justifiable to the cannon fodder and broken slave?  Is being those things what they wanted?

Karma abd the concept of being.linked to past lives also makes little sense without awareness being available.

This game goes slow.  Wouldn't be a problem to me if there weren't so much suffering...

Its like how some see animal farming as the truly horrendous grotesque thing it is.  I see that in much more than just what I potentially can have as food.

I'm just feeling drawn away from these things but I don't want to just leave them...untouched.

I'm quiet about those horrors typically though.  Because mostly I saw how no one even cares.
That feeds into the grotesquely indifferent and even apathetic behavior of very many.  Sometimes including I.

Quote:The nature of experience is such that the attention shall be constantly given varieties of experience. Those that are presumed to be negative, or interpreted as negative, may seem in abundance. It is a great challenge to take catalyst and devise the magical, positive experience. That which is magical in the negative experience is much longer coming, shall we say, in the third density.

re: Experience of the Mind.

Within infinity is there more suffering or more pleasure?

What happens if one fails their mission?

(10-13-2015, 12:09 AM)The_Tired_Philosopher Wrote: [ -> ]I'm quiet about those horrors typically though.  Because mostly I saw how no one even cares.
That feeds into the grotesquely indifferent and even apathetic behavior of very many.  Sometimes including I.

Maybe this quote from Ra will help you feel a little better:

Quote:17.23 Questioner: You spoke of the alleviation of karma being forgiveness. Are… are… I’m having a hard time phrasing this question. I think I’ll have to come back to it. I’ll ask this other question. Can you tell me why the Earth will be fourth-density positive instead of fourth-density negative after the cycle is complete since it seems that there is a greater negative population?

Ra: I am Ra. The Earth seems to be negative. That is due to the quiet, shall we say, horror which is the common distortion which those good or positively oriented entities have towards the occurrences which are of your space/time present. However, those oriented and harvestable in the ways of service to others greatly outnumber those whose orientation towards service to self has become that of harvestable quality.

It's easy to fixate on the bad things in the world since we spend so much time talking about them, but positivity still greatly outweighs negativity. My advice is to not let what others choose to do with their Free Will inhibit your own enjoyment of the game of life.

And as far as video games go, I wouldn't suggest worrying yourself too much about it. Guilt can create its own negative karma, even if the guilt is unwarranted. Your average NPC in a game, even a hugely complicated one like recent GTAs, is still just a collection of pre-written scripts and canned animations. While per the Law of One, there is almost certainly SOME consciousness behind them, they really couldn't be more than first-density entities. Electric impulses can't feel the pain of pretend bullets, any more than you "harm" a glass of water by drinking it.

While someone who devotes themselves to recreating horrors in video games is probably shifting their polarity a bit, by and large, there's really no harm done. Especially if (IMO) someone recognizes the limitations of programmed NPCs and doesn't invest in them more emotionally than is needed.

Okay I don't think everyone understands my concern.

Its hard to explain because it extends past 3D.

Infinity has infinite suffering and pleasure as far as I'm aware from the concept of infinity applied within a 3D space/time-time/space setting, Aion, so neither/both.

The Archetypes are helpful but they are not to me, a validation for the suffering created by trying to understand them.  (Persona shattering, loss of mental faculties, insanity)

There also is no true mission beyond evolution.  The Convulution begins tthere.  I dont even know how to go there.

My concern extends to Infinity, the Self of infinity.

We live in a perspective of seperation.  So powerful can this suffrage achievable here damage a soul self that 'healing' takes decades of Our 'miniscule scale of linear time concepts'.  So strange and different it forces souls into situations that even they beyond 3D space/time didn't desire.
Is that place too a game?  Is 6D, the next octave, the prior octave, a game?

What if I don't want to play ANY of that game anymore?

What's up with spirituality being used to make very real suffering acceptable?  I couldn't accept suffering being inflicted to me so I can't accept it upon others.  I feel very bad for them, I can't even imagine their misery.

This isn't a good game at that ppoint.  It doesn't matter if its in 3D, 6D, Octave 2 or Octave 3, sub-octave 997, it didn't/doesn't/won't matter to me.

A temporary persona exists as a self aware 3D vehicle.  It suffers to teach the soul driving it,sometimes intentionally against their will by their own soul/higher will.  Even to the point of ending the perceived 'only-life' of that persona.

Its.  Disturbing.  Why am I the only one who sees that even all as one still doesn't separate the reality of what they do to 3D beings to learn/evolve?  All is one?  Then suffering is created and taken and desired by parts of the one upon other parts of the one, like raping yourself because it feels good.

I get such convulutions as wanting thus enjoying negative or occurrence that are vampyric, leach-like, or controlling.

But I get those who actually want it getting it.  I don't get why those who don't want it still get it but then are told they have free will to choose, and even pick a bit.  While in actuality; that being the way they actually percieve reality, its not consistent as such.  Then all these reasons and mechanics.  And the human persona is basically just at that point despite being self aware:

A collection of prewritten scripts and animations.

How am I 'free' again?  I'm in a class I've no memory signing up for, in a place that does as it pleases then calls me the creator of those pleasures including the suffering and torment of others like me exactly.

While I've no say myself.

The contradictions of logic are my concern.  Its to such a degree I'm a nihilist spiritualist athiest, that makes no sense in and of itself as a descriptory title ;~;

But that's the only understanding I've so far.  As far as my experience versus belief goes.

There is no God above or below or here, Its all Me, and I am not God here.
I believe in the Law of One.
There is no clear point to existence beyond evolution, thus there is currently to I, no point that explains why.  The creator desired to know itself, to reexperience itself.  Why?  What's the point?  You already are, why does it need to be so vivid and constantly more as if addicted to self?

I don't get it.

Why not meditate, reach out to the Creator (who is, of course, you, but outside the current limitations) and ask him about this?

At the risk of sounding harsh, suffering is catalyst. Ra has more-or-less commented on why there is suffering, through his descriptions of what happened when there wasn't suffering. Whenever a Logoi/Sub-Logoi created a form of existence that was 'hard wired' for pure positivity, the result was entities that either never evolved, or were so slow to change that they never provided any real experiences for the Creator to learn/grow from.

They simply floated around in mindless Love without any want or need to do anything else.

WHY does the Creator desire these experiences? We don't know. I suspect even Ra didn't/doesn't know. He did, however, once briefly speak of "Lightbringers" from beyond the Octave who are apparently instrumental in coordinating the Harvest itself, and were otherwise implied to be as remote\inscrutable to Ra as Ra is to us. Their mere existence, however, STRONGLY implies that there are even larger systems above and beyond our own Octave. It also suggests that there are multiple Creators at work, towards goals which would be as impossible for us to comprehend as it would be for a lymphocyte in your bloodstream to understand cloud-based network architecture.

And how would you feel if your immune system decided to go on strike unless you could justify your own work to them in terms they could understand?

To me, one of the biggest articles of faith "demanded" by the Law of One is simply belief that there IS purpose to the chaos, and that there's a reason for all of these systems-within-systems to have been established in the way they are. The entire system we live in, itself, has evolved over countless aeons and repetition of Cycles, all with the aim of creating opportunities for learning and growth.

But otherwise, I think the other thing to remember is simply that all suffering is one day ended. Whatever horrible things happen to you or others in this life, it fades to little more than a memory of a bad dream when this incarnation ends. Your entire time here on Earth would be basically an eyeblink in the whole of your existence. And if, after this incarnation, you decided you were completely fed up with life on Earth, there would be endless other potential experiences and existences you could choose to explore instead.

If you choose to view yourself as not being free, that's your prerogative, of course. But then, you'd basically be making a slave of yourself.

I'm just flipflopping my understanding here and there to try and get responses like the one you just gave, which was not harsh at all (thank you!)

You see to me there is this belief that my lymphocytes are intelligent as I am but differently. I believe you could explain to them cloud based network architecture if you filter it into an equivalent to them, then say, 'its like this and here's why'then explains it in terms they'll be able to intelligently design.

Less my blood goes stark-dumb when a foreign object is present to be dealt with that its never dealt with before. Though sometimes it does, surprisingly, the body is in ways just as intelligent as we are.

For this demand of faith there should be questioning of it. Why should I believe? Which is funny to me cause I do believe (I just fancy the thought of emptiness now and then as I do a plenum).

This is like a 3D entity wanting to meet a 6D entity in the next octave, being told everything, then it just goes, 'Well. Why?' And it starts all over again.

Just assign emptiness to certain aspects and even faith is pointless. At a point the Law of One itself is pointless.

What's the point? Is it too evolving as is the point being To Evolve?

I think veiled systems are too slow and allow for more suffering than is necessary. To a point its wasted experience, like providing the same punch to a punching bag for the infinith tume. What the hell is left to learn for the punching bag??!

(10-13-2015, 03:12 AM)The_Tired_Philosopher Wrote: [ -> ]How am I 'free' again?  I'm in a class I've no memory signing up for, in a place that does as it pleases then calls me the creator of those pleasures including the suffering and torment of others like me exactly.

Let's say you, in your full sober mind, go break into a mall and wreck it up during its after hours.  Afterwards, you and your cohorts get blitzed on drugs and alcohol, and completely blot it out of your minds via chemical abuse.  The next day, the police show up and arrest you.  

Are you then not responsible for the repercussions of the decision simply because you forgot that you made it?  

Also, as an aside: what efforts have you taken to remember what you've forgotten since it is clearly of concern to you?  Have you considered undergoing hypnotherapy from someone trained in the Michael Newton method?  Might be something for you to look into.

Also you do recall the "distortion of the Law of One which suggests that an entity not receive more experience in more intensity than it may bear" ?  Personally, I prefer not to speculate too deeply on what another soul may or may not have experienced.  Afterall, we are not them.  We simply do not know.  If they tell me they had a certain experience, I generally take them at their word, but if they have not, I try not to draw too many assumptions.  This is a mysterious universe we live in, and reactions to catalyst are as infinitely diverse as the universe is large.  I'm not saying to not use common sense, but I'm much more interested in the person who is telling me what they are experiencing in their personal lives.  So if not knowing is causing you suffering, then I'm interested in aiding you in the endeavor of ameliorating that.

And about their being a point to existence.  Why does there need to be a point to existence?  Would that make you feel better?  It is only because we imagine ourselves to be incomplete that we develop this insatiable need for a grand purpose for anything.

If you were to ask me why we are experiencing what we are experiencing, I would tell you that we are simply the apparent manifestation of the creator knowing what it is like to have the experience that is "us".  The infinite source of all existence simply knows all things, and we are one of those infinite knowings.  We are god mistaking our infinite awareness of all possible permutations of mind and matter as independent realities containing seemingly independent entities.  Why would god make such a mistake?  Because THAT is the nature of the experience being known.  To imagine such a thing, when you have infinite scope of power, and infinite detail of focus, is no different from the reality itself!  Now to even say "imagine" makes it sound like a process, with a beginning, middle, and end.  In my opinion, it is simply an ever present awareness.  No beginning.  No ending.  

In reality, nothing is moving, nothing is changing, and all is eternal.  And evolution is an illusion to, simply another KNOWN in the infinity of consciousness.  Infinity is, because that's all that can be (as if that is a depressing fact, haha, that anything you could possibly hope for exists somewhere, out there, or rather, in here).

(10-13-2015, 04:24 AM)anagogy Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-13-2015, 03:12 AM)The_Tired_Philosopher Wrote: [ -> ]How am I 'free' again?  I'm in a class I've no memory signing up for, in a place that does as it pleases then calls me the creator of those pleasures including the suffering and torment of others like me exactly.

Let's say you, in your full sober mind, go break into a mall and wreck it up during its after hours.  Afterwards, you and your cohorts get blitzed on drugs and alcohol, and completely blot it out of your minds via chemical abuse.  The next day, the police show up and arrest you.  

Are you then not responsible for the repercussions of the decision simply because you forgot that you made it?  

Also, as an aside: what efforts have you taken to remember what you've forgotten since it is clearly of concern to you?  Have you considered undergoing hypnotherapy from someone trained in the Michael Newton method?  Might be something for you to look into.

Also you do recall the "distortion of the Law of One which suggests that an entity not receive more experience in more intensity than it may bear" ?  Personally, I prefer not to speculate too deeply on what another soul may or may not have experienced.  Afterall, we are not them.  We simply do not know.  If they tell me they had a certain experience, I generally take them at their word, but if they have not, I try not to draw too many assumptions.  This is a mysterious universe we live in, and reactions to catalyst are as infinitely diverse as the universe is large.  I'm not saying to not use common sense, but I'm much more interested in the person who is telling me what they are experiencing in their personal lives.  So if not knowing is causing you suffering, then I'm interested in aiding you in the endeavor of ameliorating that.

And about their being a point to existence.  Why does there need to be a point to existence?  Would that make you feel better?  It is only because we imagine ourselves to be incomplete that we develop this insatiable need for a grand purpose for anything.

If you were to ask me why we are experiencing what we are experiencing, I would tell you that we are simply the apparent manifestation of the creator knowing what it is like to have the experience that is "us".  The infinite source of all existence simply knows all things, and we are one of those infinite knowings.  We are god mistaking our infinite awareness of all possible permutations of mind and matter as independent realities containing seemingly independent entities.  Why would god make such a mistake?  Because THAT is the nature of the experience being known.  To imagine such a thing, when you have infinite scope of power, and infinite detail of focus, is no different from the reality itself!  Now to even say "imagine" makes it sound like a process, with a beginning, middle, and end.  In my opinion, it is simply an ever present awareness.  No beginning.  No ending.  

In reality, nothing is moving, nothing is changing, and all is eternal.  And evolution is an illusion to, simply another KNOWN in the infinity of consciousness.  Infinity is, because that's all that can be (as if that is a depressing fact, haha, that anything you could possibly hope for exists somewhere, out there, or rather, in here).

Well by that analogy of balls tripping madness Id have to simply say, that's improper to what's being talked of.  Get rid of drugs, replace with accident causing amnesia then twenty one years later as that amnesiac who never got back their memory gets arrested for doing it but is no longer actually that person mentally.

Is it fair to anyone?

My local newton institute certified Age Regression and Past Life Regression Hypnotist costs $700 for two sessions, I've looked into it . . .(and was saddened)

All those entities who committed suicide might disagree with the 'accuracy' of that distortion.  They and the one's who struggle every day not to suicide are who I usually think of in disagreement of that distortion.

Not being able to help hurts.  But suffering wise?  My suffering is internal.  Some have physical disabilities.  I don't even know if I'm sane by insanity's standards lol, but I am tired of suffering...

Why is there a point at all?  Why do we play games, or breathe?  Or exist?
There's a point to everything, even 0 has a point undefined.  There is a point, Its The Truth, I seek it.  That's all.

I'd probably seek it in 3D time/space or 6D space/time and vice versa.

Infinity implies singular unity.  Is there more than One infinity?  There's multiples of everything.  Why wouldn't infinity be one of many too?

But Why?

Just keep asking why and you'll see why I do.

Thank you for the responses so far everyone

Picture that the first thing that was sought/thought of was an heavenly perfect paradise, and that became dull as f***. The STO polarity had no meaning in itself nor purpose as you could say everyone was loving but no one needed to receive love from others.

Even with a less dull Universe state that we currently have, STO worlds still seem extremely dull and boring.

When you speak of suffering, you view it through separation. The experience of one is the experience of All. It is under that scope that it is sought and it is also good to perceive that it is an infinitely small part of one's individualized path.

There can't be infinite infinity, but infinity can be infinite in infinite ways. Infinite manyness that stretches infinitely in infinite simultaneous timelines. This happening in this creation and infinite others with different sub-laws of the LOO being explored. (didn't care to go beyond that in my thoughts)