Bring4th

-----

I too desire and have felt and thought similarly of cruel monstrous people.

But I flinch at butterflies LOL

However.  Prisons exist for a reason.  Don't stoop to their levels...  Hit em with a tranq and let em wake up in Solitary Confinement.

A legal torture method.

Or just put them all together and give them their own lnd to do as they please if they'll leave us alone.

I often ponder what I'D want someone to do to the person, raping, torturing, or murdering me.

Often times I'd just like the abuser to disappear.  Doesn't matter how.

I don't want to kill.  But if murder is literally just a tool and nothing more to you.

Maybe it is safer to have you removed than to keep giving you the chance.

But seriously.  Tranquilizers, Prison.

Let monsters be monsters in a cage.
Edit:
Inb4 killer cops can't be put in prison for some reason.

Before I respond to the OP I request that you remove the link earth spirit. I understand these thing go on and would prefer that this video be submitted as evidence with the intent of bringing those men to justice. 

I cannot speak to this particular instance unless there is, or has been criminal charges made against the perpetrators.

So I think the right thing to do is first, find out how this lady is doing and have charges been made. Because if not, I feel it is inappropriate to use this video at all. 

-----

I had a dream where my brother was trying to burn me with a hot wire, and I burned him instead. Then I saw a thug who was coming to retaliate against me, and I kicked him (as I awoke) with a spike in my shoe. I was angry at my brother and this thug.

Thank you earth_spirit. I found it too upsetting, although I take full accountability for clicking on the link. I think Jades advice would have given sufficient warning and I probably would not have reacted as I did.

I will return and contribute about barbaric acts in general. Now though I am too pressed for time. Thanks again for your sensitivity as it was too much for me, and I have seen some stuff in my time.

(11-28-2015, 11:32 AM)earth_spirit Wrote: [ -> ]@Nicholas
At first I was going to tag the video as violent as per Bring4th_Jade's request, but now that you asked for outright removal I complied regardless.

And I was going to post quite a few more videos, but I figured just one would be enough. I wasn't talking about the people in the video, as it was only an example to help the viewer empathize with the victims of such situations.

What would you do? What should we do? I'd prefer answers to be practical and workable as opposed to utopian far-fetched ideals.

I'm thinking of sophisticated non-lethal weaponry as TTP's tranq suggestion implies, but that is hardly a decent solution. Besides, it'd be difficult to neutralize an entire crowd with such equipment, given that most savages prefer to wander in packs.

I'm also thinking of moving to cold climates, as violent thugs prefer to wander in temperate urban environments. They're typically not sophisticated enough to comfortably live on say, a tundra.

Tear Gas.  Rubber bullets...Bean bag shotguns...Flashbang grenades...  Dude.  Look at the Police, all your answers right there.

I must be morbid as violence doesn't really shock me. I feel empathy for the pain that comes about, but the violence itself doesn't really disturb me. What really disturbs me is the state of someone's heart and emotions when they are in a state where they feel violent or that violence is the only option. Most violence stems from emotions, whether it's anger, fear or in some cases joy.

However, violence can also come from 'logic', such in the case of some sociopaths. In this case I wonder if the violence comes from the repression of emotion instead. Either way, one extreme or the other seems to yield violence. I think that because in either case there is some kind of resistance. Either the emotions cannot be expressed properly or they have been so repressed there is simply no feeling. A mind with no feeling is a dangerous beast if its taken down the wrong roads.

As for what to do. Well, if it is within my power I would exercise self-defense and defense of those who are to be harmed. The exception to that is if two people have obviously mutually engaged, in which ending the fight would be the goal, but sometimes you just have to let people duke it out or risk more injuries. As for how to deal with such people in a societal sense I don't really think prison or death really addresses the actual issue in any meaningful way.

Instead I would look at the conditions surrounding the individual, their ideology and try to see where their violent tendencies stem from. I have often seen it said that rehabilitation is useless, but I think that there are not as many 'too far gone' people as might be thought. I think that most people become involved with violence through teachings or pressure from others, or stemming from deep-seated anger or aggression. There are certainly cases of extreme dysfunction and surely sometimes there are biological elements at play but in general I think that most violence is either reactionary or for power. In such extreme cases imprisonment or isolation is sensible.

The last thing I think should be done is to treat violence with anger, coldness, hatred, etc because that is, in my eyes, just breeding more of the same. I think that comes usually from a sense of being 'above' violence. Yet such people will happily be violent in their emotions.

For myself I try to see the completeness in all things. I see that the violence in this individuals also exists within me and so I know the challenge when it rises within you. For that, I have compassion. I also have compassion for victims and those who are assailed, obviously, it just goes without saying for me.

(11-28-2015, 06:39 AM)earth_spirit Wrote: [ -> ]And from a purely worldly perspective, I believe such people should to be put down. There is no need for punishment or incarceration, just put them down. If violent entities are only going to respawn elsewhere upon their death (preferably somewhere far away), then why is killing them such a big deal? It would help them with their karmic debts.

Or perhaps it would add more to their karmic debts and they will express more of that same violence or maybe even a greater one somewhere far away on other-selves which are not you and me in our current awareness.

...

To answer the post as a whole, Ra has said that the balanced entity's response to all things is love.

It was also said that love is known in a unique manner to each and that STO derives from how it is know. As such I can see a love-response that kills under the right circumstances just as a love-driven one that simply wishes to offer healing if healing is sought.

-----

-----

That is dependent upon how you perceive this earth and it's purpose. To me it is a learning environment and as such the idea of needing to exclude individuals of this ecperience isn't resonant with my perception of it.

Learn self defense. Martial arts isn't about fighting. It's about not fighting. There are lethal and nonlethal moves.

I have taught my female friends at least a few techniques. Also, when one moves through the world in a certain way, attackers will be deterred. Here is an article I wrote on the matter:

Quote:
2 Key Self-Defense Tips Anyone Can Learn Right Now

You don’t have to be a martial artist to take advantage of the following key self-defense tips. Self-defense is not about fighting; it is about warding off harm—to yourself and, although it may sound counterintuitive, the person confronting you. The best possible outcome of any confrontation would be resolution with no physical, mental, or emotional aftereffects for anyone involved.

Why? If you approach a conflict with the mindset that the other person is “wrong” and you are in the “right,” you have set up a polarized exchange involving your ego, self-righteousness, and judgment. These feelings distort your emotional state and cause imbalance putting you at a disadvantage immediately. Maintaining a calm, focused mind is your goal, rather than using the force of your reactive emotions.

The best self-defense avoids conflict altogether before it even begins. Start learning effective self-defense skills or polish what you know with the following two essential tips.

Tip 1

Cultivate confidence. This is the number one key secret of any effective endeavor you will ever undertake. Given a choice between a fearful, timid woman clutching her purse and a confident-looking woman striding with purpose, who makes the easier target?

“How can I be confident if I’m not?” you may ask. Act like a confident person with high self-esteem. Walk with purpose. Hold your head high. Observe your self-talk and change its content from critical to empowering. It works. Try it now. Think of one good thing about yourself and say it out loud. Do this every day.

Tip 2

Develop good posture. Good posture is of key importance to your body, health, mind, and emotions. Let’s go back to imagining the choice of targets noted above. The fearful, timid woman clutching her purse has hunched shoulders; her gaze is focused anxiously on finding her destination; her energy is spent on her concerns. The confident-looking woman is striding purposefully with an straight spine, her head held high, and she is using her muscles to walk; she knows where she is going because she came prepared; her mind is at ease and not burdened with imagined fears.

Start observing your posture now. Are you slumping forward in front of your computer? Are your shoulders hunched? Do you walk consciously, aware of your body mechanics? Become aware of your body alignment. Imagine a bowl of water on top of your head you don’t want to spill as you walk. Try it now while walking into the next room.

Warrior Spirit

-----

(11-28-2015, 01:44 PM)earth_spirit Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-28-2015, 01:26 PM)Diana Wrote: [ -> ]Learn self defense. Martial arts isn't about fighting. It's about not fighting. There are lethal and nonlethal moves.

Thanks for the link, it seems interesting.

Martial arts are solid advice. I think plenty of them are useless in an actual confrontation with a pack of thugs in a street, unlike the controlled environment of a dojo.

Personally I'm rooting for Krav Maga

If one learns martial arts, the first training is all about mastering techniques. A black belt means one has done that—mastered the basic techniques of a discipline. The levels above the basic black belt are about the inner learning. Of course, with the right teacher, this is taught as you go along. But when one trains for long enough to get past the physical mastering of a discipline, the inner understanding expands.

It's true that techniques practiced in the dojo are not the same as being on the street. But one must learn technique. When the technique is mastered, your body will know what to do on the street. You have muscle memory and an overall confidence in movement. It's not about thinking at all. It's a reaction that draws on the wealth of learned responses. If you know anything about martial arts, you will know what katas are—the series of movements put into a specific sequence such as the nan quan form. These forms teach the body to act not only with one technique, but to fluidly move through many.

When training in martial arts, there comes a point when you just know you can defend yourself. There is some critical mass that's reached. This doesn't mean you are omnipotent. It just means you are not without a self defense.

In the U.S. there are a lot of martial arts studios. Many are geared toward a business rather than toward actual love of the art. Even so, the students do learn something. But if you are going to learn martial arts, I would visit different dojos to see which teacher you resonate with. The first lesson is usually free.

I'm not familiar with Krav Maga. If nothing else, taking a martial arts class is a blast.

You should see A Clockwork Orange.

(11-28-2015, 01:23 PM)earth_spirit Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-28-2015, 12:59 PM)Elros Tar-Minyatur Wrote: [ -> ]Or perhaps it would add more to their karmic debts and they will express more of that same violence or maybe even a greater one somewhere far away on other-selves which are not you and me in our current awareness.

Nice reframe, I hadn't considered that.

From a purely material and worldly perspective, I still think that there is every reason for murderous savages to be put down. Imprisoning such people is squandering taxpayer money, and arguably is a waste of time.

I am not an advocate of death penalty, but I don't understand why someone without metaphysical beliefs would oppose it.

Statistics show that places that have the death penalty have higher violence rates, not lower.  This is your answer to why someone w/o metaphysical beliefs would oppose it.  It is counterproductive. And in our society it is more expensive to execute someone than support them for life in prison.

Metaphysical beliefs do not exist in a vacuum and there is no such thing as "supernormal."  Anything that manifests that seems supernormal is simply something we do not understand or perceive but it is just as "normal" as anything else.  So the fact that the death penalty increases violence can be explained in various ways, depending on one's understanding.

HOWEVER.... I, too, (my present understanding) think that a group of thugs who are publicly saying they want to kill us and they also want to be martyrs in a glorious war to the death should be granted their wish to be martyrs.  The only question is how to accommodate them without harming hundreds or thousands of innocents. 

i have found that avoiding those whose vibe i dont like helps a lot. we cant always do that. but it never hurts to set people straight that you have boundaries and that you will absolutely not tolerate those boundaries being violated. we may be gentle but gentle does not equate to door mat. so i have learned to right away set some one straight when they attempt to violate my boundaries. right away. its hard to say because i dont know your exact situation. but understand no one has the right to violate your boundaries no one

This really is one of many scenarios where acceptance is truly tested along with what one can assume at that precise moment as to the intention of such an act

Does one sit idly by and allow such acts against an other self or does one intervene? Was it that other selfs preincarnational plan to allow such an act due to karmic rebalancing from a prior life?

These questions are difficult to answer so the ultimate decision will lie within the moment.

I try to combine the Law of One and journey of souls where ones path could involved a karmic rebalancing where one could have done something like that to that other self in a prior life thus such thing occurs. It could also mean that one was meant to learn a lesson that would result in said action thus redirecting that other self back towards their intended path.

Who knows how such act except during that exact moment.

(11-28-2015, 02:16 PM)Diana Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-28-2015, 01:44 PM)earth_spirit Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-28-2015, 01:26 PM)Diana Wrote: [ -> ]Learn self defense. Martial arts isn't about fighting. It's about not fighting. There are lethal and nonlethal moves.

Thanks for the link, it seems interesting.

Martial arts are solid advice. I think plenty of them are useless in an actual confrontation with a pack of thugs in a street, unlike the controlled environment of a dojo.

Personally I'm rooting for Krav Maga

If one learns martial arts, the first training is all about mastering techniques. A black belt means one has done that—mastered the basic techniques of a discipline. The levels above the basic black belt are about the inner learning. Of course, with the right teacher, this is taught as you go along. But when one trains for long enough to get past the physical mastering of a discipline, the inner understanding expands.

It's true that techniques practiced in the dojo are not the same as being on the street. But one must learn technique. When the technique is mastered, your body will know what to do on the street. You have muscle memory and an overall confidence in movement. It's not about thinking at all. It's a reaction that draws on the wealth of learned responses. If you know anything about martial arts, you will know what katas are—the series of movements put into a specific sequence such as the nan quan form. These forms teach the body to act not only with one technique, but to fluidly move through many.

When training in martial arts, there comes a point when you just know you can defend yourself. There is some critical mass that's reached. This doesn't mean you are omnipotent. It just means you are not without a self defense.

In the U.S. there are a lot of martial arts studios. Many are geared toward a business rather than toward actual love of the art. Even so, the students do learn something. But if you are going to learn martial arts, I would visit different dojos to see which teacher you resonate with. The first lesson is usually free.

I'm not familiar with Krav Maga. If nothing else, taking a martial arts class is a blast.

I practice Wing Chun in the Ip Man lineage and it is a very fascinating style. It is entirely defensive while being offensive in that it is a simultaneous block and counter system. We do not attack, our philosophy is that fighting is a last resort but if you go to strike us, we will hit you first. The system is responsive and conceptual so it is based in feeling and touch sensitivity. Advanced students often practice with blindfolds.

I feel the system very accurately portrays my philosophy of balance where everything is matched and followed. "Greet what comes. Follow what goes. If contact is lost, strike." So we do nothing until there is something to greet. Until then we practice peace.

Another feature of Wing Chun is its use of 'forward energy' so we learn to push all of our energy forward in to the center line of the opponent while maintaining a firm stance. This goes very well with Chi Gung and Tai Chi style practices. Actually my sifu is also trained in Tai Chi.

What I think you would find funny is that there are no belts at all. The progression is from form to form. Since there are only 3 forms they expect them to be perfect before you progress. Each builds on the next. A story I've heard often is that someone once asked, 'Well what about a black belt?' Sifu's response was, 'Okay, everybody fights everybody, whoever is left standing, black belt.'

The point being that it doesn't matter where you are at, they will train you at where you are at. They are very accommodating. Although the story behind belts is kind of amusing. In the old days a fighter would only get one single belt in a dojo and they would not clean them so the older the person got, the dirtier the belt got until it was black. Thus an experienced fighter is a 'black belt'.

I don't have anything against belt systems, I just find the stories amusing.

(11-28-2015, 10:34 PM)Jeremy Wrote: [ -> ]This really is one of many scenarios where acceptance is truly tested along with what one can assume at that precise moment as to the intention of such an act

Does one sit idly by and allow such acts against an other self or does one intervene?  Was it that other selfs preincarnational plan to allow such an act due to karmic rebalancing from a prior life?

These questions are difficult to answer so the ultimate decision will lie within the moment.

I try to combine the Law of One and journey of souls where ones path could involved a karmic rebalancing where one could have done something like that to that other self in a prior life thus such thing occurs. It could also mean that one was meant to learn a lesson that would result in said action thus redirecting that other self back towards their intended path.

Who knows how such act except during that exact moment.

I can agree as well. It is indeed a matter of perspective, and some of us may only know until we are in that particular situation. "Fight or flight" and "Tend or befriend".

What are you willing to compromise? Your life in full devotion to an open heart? Or to preserve the well-being of the self at all costs?

It's good to sit down and ponder upon this. Only ourselves may know what we will truly gravitate to.

(11-28-2015, 11:07 PM)Aion Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-28-2015, 02:16 PM)Diana Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-28-2015, 01:44 PM)earth_spirit Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-28-2015, 01:26 PM)Diana Wrote: [ -> ]Learn self defense. Martial arts isn't about fighting. It's about not fighting. There are lethal and nonlethal moves.

Thanks for the link, it seems interesting.

Martial arts are solid advice. I think plenty of them are useless in an actual confrontation with a pack of thugs in a street, unlike the controlled environment of a dojo.

Personally I'm rooting for Krav Maga

If one learns martial arts, the first training is all about mastering techniques. A black belt means one has done that—mastered the basic techniques of a discipline. The levels above the basic black belt are about the inner learning. Of course, with the right teacher, this is taught as you go along. But when one trains for long enough to get past the physical mastering of a discipline, the inner understanding expands.

It's true that techniques practiced in the dojo are not the same as being on the street. But one must learn technique. When the technique is mastered, your body will know what to do on the street. You have muscle memory and an overall confidence in movement. It's not about thinking at all. It's a reaction that draws on the wealth of learned responses. If you know anything about martial arts, you will know what katas are—the series of movements put into a specific sequence such as the nan quan form. These forms teach the body to act not only with one technique, but to fluidly move through many.

When training in martial arts, there comes a point when you just know you can defend yourself. There is some critical mass that's reached. This doesn't mean you are omnipotent. It just means you are not without a self defense.

In the U.S. there are a lot of martial arts studios. Many are geared toward a business rather than toward actual love of the art. Even so, the students do learn something. But if you are going to learn martial arts, I would visit different dojos to see which teacher you resonate with. The first lesson is usually free.

I'm not familiar with Krav Maga. If nothing else, taking a martial arts class is a blast.

I practice Wing Chun in the Ip Man lineage and it is a very fascinating style. It is entirely defensive while being offensive in that it is a simultaneous block and counter system. We do not attack, our philosophy is that fighting is a last resort but if you go to strike us, we will hit you first. The system is responsive and conceptual so it is based in feeling and touch sensitivity. Advanced students often practice with blindfolds.

I feel the system very accurately portrays my philosophy of balance where everything is matched and followed. "Greet what comes. Follow what goes. If contact is lost, strike." So we do nothing until there is something to greet.  Until then we practice peace.

Another feature of Wing Chun is its use of 'forward energy' so we learn to push all of our energy forward in to the center line of the opponent while maintaining a firm stance. This goes very well with Chi Gung and Tai Chi style practices. Actually my sifu is also trained in Tai Chi.

What I think you would find funny is that there are no belts at all. The progression is from form to form. Since there are only 3 forms they expect them to be perfect before you progress. Each builds on the next. A story I've heard often is that someone once asked, 'Well what about a black belt?' Sifu's response was, 'Okay, everybody fights everybody, whoever is left standing, black belt.'

The point being that it doesn't matter where you are at, they will train you at where you are at. They are very accommodating. Although the story behind belts is kind of amusing. In the old days a fighter would only get one single belt in a dojo and they would not clean them so the older the person got, the dirtier the belt got until it was black. Thus an experienced fighter is a 'black belt'.

I don't have anything against belt systems, I just find the stories amusing.

Wing Chun!!!
-Falls to knees-
Teach mee--!!!

Tai Chi and Wing Chun call to me.

As for such nonlethal weaponry.

And the Police State...

It is my understanding I can't change the world.  I would rather avoid, thugs, police, weaponry, and violence overall...
Too much violence for my taste in the world...

Legalize guns.  Australia showed a full Gun Ban raises gun related criminal crimes.
Legalize guns, educate appropriate gun safety and use, educate yo frickin kids to see it as a dangerous weapon, not a toy or 'daddys shiny closet thing' or something like that.

If half the people who've robbed me at work knew the moment they turned around their knees would get shot at, the probably wouldn't bother.  Cigarettes and...well for some alcohol is worth their life...  So.

Swat team's exist and have been used to 'execute' (no knock raid) people before.

Its a scary country I'm in...

(11-29-2015, 12:02 AM)The_Tired_Philosopher Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-28-2015, 11:07 PM)Aion Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-28-2015, 02:16 PM)Diana Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-28-2015, 01:44 PM)earth_spirit Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-28-2015, 01:26 PM)Diana Wrote: [ -> ]Learn self defense. Martial arts isn't about fighting. It's about not fighting. There are lethal and nonlethal moves.

Thanks for the link, it seems interesting.

Martial arts are solid advice. I think plenty of them are useless in an actual confrontation with a pack of thugs in a street, unlike the controlled environment of a dojo.

Personally I'm rooting for Krav Maga

If one learns martial arts, the first training is all about mastering techniques. A black belt means one has done that—mastered the basic techniques of a discipline. The levels above the basic black belt are about the inner learning. Of course, with the right teacher, this is taught as you go along. But when one trains for long enough to get past the physical mastering of a discipline, the inner understanding expands.

It's true that techniques practiced in the dojo are not the same as being on the street. But one must learn technique. When the technique is mastered, your body will know what to do on the street. You have muscle memory and an overall confidence in movement. It's not about thinking at all. It's a reaction that draws on the wealth of learned responses. If you know anything about martial arts, you will know what katas are—the series of movements put into a specific sequence such as the nan quan form. These forms teach the body to act not only with one technique, but to fluidly move through many.

When training in martial arts, there comes a point when you just know you can defend yourself. There is some critical mass that's reached. This doesn't mean you are omnipotent. It just means you are not without a self defense.

In the U.S. there are a lot of martial arts studios. Many are geared toward a business rather than toward actual love of the art. Even so, the students do learn something. But if you are going to learn martial arts, I would visit different dojos to see which teacher you resonate with. The first lesson is usually free.

I'm not familiar with Krav Maga. If nothing else, taking a martial arts class is a blast.

I practice Wing Chun in the Ip Man lineage and it is a very fascinating style. It is entirely defensive while being offensive in that it is a simultaneous block and counter system. We do not attack, our philosophy is that fighting is a last resort but if you go to strike us, we will hit you first. The system is responsive and conceptual so it is based in feeling and touch sensitivity. Advanced students often practice with blindfolds.

I feel the system very accurately portrays my philosophy of balance where everything is matched and followed. "Greet what comes. Follow what goes. If contact is lost, strike." So we do nothing until there is something to greet.  Until then we practice peace.

Another feature of Wing Chun is its use of 'forward energy' so we learn to push all of our energy forward in to the center line of the opponent while maintaining a firm stance. This goes very well with Chi Gung and Tai Chi style practices. Actually my sifu is also trained in Tai Chi.

What I think you would find funny is that there are no belts at all. The progression is from form to form. Since there are only 3 forms they expect them to be perfect before you progress. Each builds on the next. A story I've heard often is that someone once asked, 'Well what about a black belt?' Sifu's response was, 'Okay, everybody fights everybody, whoever is left standing, black belt.'

The point being that it doesn't matter where you are at, they will train you at where you are at. They are very accommodating. Although the story behind belts is kind of amusing. In the old days a fighter would only get one single belt in a dojo and they would not clean them so the older the person got, the dirtier the belt got until it was black. Thus an experienced fighter is a 'black belt'.

I don't have anything against belt systems, I just find the stories amusing.

Wing Chun!!!
-Falls to knees-
Teach mee--!!!

Tai Chi and Wing Chun call to me.

As for such nonlethal weaponry.

And the Police State...

It is my understanding I can't change the world.  I would rather avoid, thugs, police, weaponry, and violence overall...
Too much violence for my taste in the world...

Legalize guns.  Australia showed a full Gun Ban raises gun related criminal crimes.
Legalize guns, educate appropriate gun safety and use, educate yo frickin kids to see it as a dangerous weapon, not a toy or 'daddys shiny closet thing' or something like that.

If half the people who've robbed me at work knew the moment they turned around their knees would get shot at, the probably wouldn't bother.  Cigarettes and...well for some alcohol is worth their life...  So.

Swat team's exist and have been used to 'execute' (no knock raid) people before.

Its a scary country I'm in...

It is my understanding that an abundance of this attitude is the reason the world never changes. The first movement of change occurs within the self.

I'm by no means advanced enough to teach, I've been practicing for about 8 months now. If you want to come to Canada my Sifu is about as legitimate as you can get.

Kind of funny though that you are drawn to Wing Chun when you have a deterrence towards violence. Although it is a defensive system it is very aggressive and once the point of peace has been passed it is ruthless. We do not have rules. The rule is to end the fight quickly and effectively. This means there is no dirty fighting in our eyes. We strike at vulnerable, weak and easily damaged points. This is fair since we make every effort possible to avoid the point of combat.

Tai Chi on the other hand sounds like more in the vein you are looking for and if you find a competent teacher (which are not so common) it can be a very powerful martial systems. The guy my Sifu trained with is one of the world champions in Chi Sao, sticky hands. Might also try Aikido, another system that is very much about non-lethal and minimizing damage. The 'Art of Peace' is a book you might find interesting.

Needless to say, the island on which I live is, I think, a boiling pot of secret masters and ancient teaching. I've heard that our island is something of the 'new Atlantis'. Many mysterious things going on here.

Let me offer this theoretical scenario to everyone in the thread.

You are walking through city with a friend. It's night-time, obviously a potentially dangerous scenario. You and your friend cut down an alley way and there you encounter two men looking for a scrap. They're a little drunk, they don't want to rob you, they're just feeling belligerent and wanting to fight.

Your friend is trained in martial arts, but you are not. Knowing this, he steps in front of you and tells you to run, suggesting he will stop them while you get away. The men have no interest in talking and they're approaching fast.

What do you do?

I ROLL FOR INITIATIVE!

I reach for my phone and dial 911 while walking backwards while my friend does as he will?  (I have a friend that can fight? lolwut??)

If I had a gun, I draw it then dial 911..
If I knew Wing Chun, I'd turn the guys back and ask they leave me alone.

(11-29-2015, 12:04 PM)Aion Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-29-2015, 12:02 AM)The_Tired_Philosopher Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-28-2015, 11:07 PM)Aion Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-28-2015, 02:16 PM)Diana Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-28-2015, 01:44 PM)earth_spirit Wrote: [ -> ]Thanks for the link, it seems interesting.

Martial arts are solid advice. I think plenty of them are useless in an actual confrontation with a pack of thugs in a street, unlike the controlled environment of a dojo.

Personally I'm rooting for Krav Maga

If one learns martial arts, the first training is all about mastering techniques. A black belt means one has done that—mastered the basic techniques of a discipline. The levels above the basic black belt are about the inner learning. Of course, with the right teacher, this is taught as you go along. But when one trains for long enough to get past the physical mastering of a discipline, the inner understanding expands.

It's true that techniques practiced in the dojo are not the same as being on the street. But one must learn technique. When the technique is mastered, your body will know what to do on the street. You have muscle memory and an overall confidence in movement. It's not about thinking at all. It's a reaction that draws on the wealth of learned responses. If you know anything about martial arts, you will know what katas are—the series of movements put into a specific sequence such as the nan quan form. These forms teach the body to act not only with one technique, but to fluidly move through many.

When training in martial arts, there comes a point when you just know you can defend yourself. There is some critical mass that's reached. This doesn't mean you are omnipotent. It just means you are not without a self defense.

In the U.S. there are a lot of martial arts studios. Many are geared toward a business rather than toward actual love of the art. Even so, the students do learn something. But if you are going to learn martial arts, I would visit different dojos to see which teacher you resonate with. The first lesson is usually free.

I'm not familiar with Krav Maga. If nothing else, taking a martial arts class is a blast.

I practice Wing Chun in the Ip Man lineage and it is a very fascinating style. It is entirely defensive while being offensive in that it is a simultaneous block and counter system. We do not attack, our philosophy is that fighting is a last resort but if you go to strike us, we will hit you first. The system is responsive and conceptual so it is based in feeling and touch sensitivity. Advanced students often practice with blindfolds.

I feel the system very accurately portrays my philosophy of balance where everything is matched and followed. "Greet what comes. Follow what goes. If contact is lost, strike." So we do nothing until there is something to greet.  Until then we practice peace.

Another feature of Wing Chun is its use of 'forward energy' so we learn to push all of our energy forward in to the center line of the opponent while maintaining a firm stance. This goes very well with Chi Gung and Tai Chi style practices. Actually my sifu is also trained in Tai Chi.

What I think you would find funny is that there are no belts at all. The progression is from form to form. Since there are only 3 forms they expect them to be perfect before you progress. Each builds on the next. A story I've heard often is that someone once asked, 'Well what about a black belt?' Sifu's response was, 'Okay, everybody fights everybody, whoever is left standing, black belt.'

The point being that it doesn't matter where you are at, they will train you at where you are at. They are very accommodating. Although the story behind belts is kind of amusing. In the old days a fighter would only get one single belt in a dojo and they would not clean them so the older the person got, the dirtier the belt got until it was black. Thus an experienced fighter is a 'black belt'.

I don't have anything against belt systems, I just find the stories amusing.

Wing Chun!!!
-Falls to knees-
Teach mee--!!!

Tai Chi and Wing Chun call to me.

As for such nonlethal weaponry.

And the Police State...

It is my understanding I can't change the world.  I would rather avoid, thugs, police, weaponry, and violence overall...
Too much violence for my taste in the world...

Legalize guns.  Australia showed a full Gun Ban raises gun related criminal crimes.
Legalize guns, educate appropriate gun safety and use, educate yo frickin kids to see it as a dangerous weapon, not a toy or 'daddys shiny closet thing' or something like that.

If half the people who've robbed me at work knew the moment they turned around their knees would get shot at, the probably wouldn't bother.  Cigarettes and...well for some alcohol is worth their life...  So.

Swat team's exist and have been used to 'execute' (no knock raid) people before.

Its a scary country I'm in...

It is my understanding that an abundance of this attitude is the reason the world never changes. The first movement of change occurs within the self.

I'm by no means advanced enough to teach, I've been practicing for about 8 months now. If you want to come to Canada my Sifu is about as legitimate as you can get.

Kind of funny though that you are drawn to Wing Chun when you have a deterrence towards violence. Although it is a defensive system it is very aggressive and once the point of peace has been passed it is ruthless. We do not have rules. The rule is to end the fight quickly and effectively. This means there is no dirty fighting in our eyes. We strike at vulnerable, weak and easily damaged points. This is fair since we make every effort possible to avoid the point of combat.

Tai Chi on the other hand sounds like more in the vein you are looking for and if you find a competent teacher (which are not so common) it can be a very powerful martial systems. The guy my Sifu trained with is one of the world champions in Chi Sao, sticky hands. Might also try Aikido, another system that is very much about non-lethal and minimizing damage. The 'Art of Peace' is a book you might find interesting.

Needless to say, the island on which I live is, I think, a boiling pot of secret masters and ancient teaching. I've heard that our island is something of the 'new Atlantis'. Many mysterious things going on here.

Bold is exactly why Wing Chun calls to me.  Violence is also inevitable in this world. . .I haven't encountered it yet, but it has been all around me constantly.  I don't want to come into contact with it and get wiped across the floor like a worthless nobody I often feel like.  To be able to just show people from one moment of being docile to an explosive force of defense/offense from moment to moment without needing to be extraneous or flashy, to just showcase it, a physical 'leave me alone, or else.'  In cases like the one you mentioned, or to literally put a person off their feet if they are a real threat.

I've heard Aikido before but it feels too vulnerable to me.  Tai Chi is more a mental calling, Wing Chun is somewhat physical.

I've also seen the Ipman movies, I derive my basis of desire for Wing Chun off of the fact I highly appreciated the Philosophy towards fighting showcased in the movies.  It is not something to seek out, violence and conflict find you, it is up to you to defend and keep it away.  For the sake of peace, violence is avoided, for the sake of survival, violence can also be embraced in the ways you mentioned, attacks at the eyes and throat, lethal strikes, using surroundings as an extension of yourself as well as a tool/weapon all in the name of defense/offense, or what I term, Survival.

Yeah, I liked it.  Tai Chi however calls to me intellectually towards the mentality of the martial art.  I understand it's a somewhat meditative style?

I don't think you understand Aion.  I am scared of the violence enough to embrace it, like being terrified of the ocean and finally entering it (something I did).  Often times my first thoughts are the go after the eyes and throat if I ever get into a dangerous fight.  I've even begun carrying a multitool and a small pocket knife on me at work for safety...  If I could rely on my body and not a simple blade I'd feel much more safe and comfortable quite often honestly.  Wing Chun is exactly what I was always wanting.  A very well balanced defense/offense 'parry' style and 'quiet' style martial art.  I don't like attacking.  I play defense.  I do this in real life, I do this in video games, I do this.  I stay back, I take in the surroundings, I react, I don't pro-act unless I see a chance to do so that is basically safe or plausible.

-----

(11-28-2015, 12:59 PM)Elros Tar-Minyatur Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-28-2015, 06:39 AM)earth_spirit Wrote: [ -> ]And from a purely worldly perspective, I believe such people should to be put down. There is no need for punishment or incarceration, just put them down. If violent entities are only going to respawn elsewhere upon their death (preferably somewhere far away), then why is killing them such a big deal? It would help them with their karmic debts.

Or perhaps it would add more to their karmic debts and they will express more of that same violence or maybe even a greater one somewhere far away on other-selves which are not you and me in our current awareness.

...

To answer the post as a whole, Ra has said that the balanced entity's response to all things is love.

It was also said that love is known in a unique manner to each and that STO derives from how it is know. As such I can see a love-response that kills under the right circumstances just as a love-driven one that simply wishes to offer healing if healing is sought.

So it means that you have to leave your self get brutally beaten is that right ?

(11-29-2015, 12:42 PM)The_Tired_Philosopher Wrote: [ -> ]I ROLL FOR INITIATIVE!

I reach for my phone and dial 911 while walking backwards while my friend does as he will?  (I have a friend that can fight? lolwut??)

If I had a gun, I draw it then dial 911..
If I knew Wing Chun, I'd turn the guys back and ask they leave me alone.

(11-29-2015, 12:04 PM)Aion Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-29-2015, 12:02 AM)The_Tired_Philosopher Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-28-2015, 11:07 PM)Aion Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-28-2015, 02:16 PM)Diana Wrote: [ -> ]If one learns martial arts, the first training is all about mastering techniques. A black belt means one has done that—mastered the basic techniques of a discipline. The levels above the basic black belt are about the inner learning. Of course, with the right teacher, this is taught as you go along. But when one trains for long enough to get past the physical mastering of a discipline, the inner understanding expands.

It's true that techniques practiced in the dojo are not the same as being on the street. But one must learn technique. When the technique is mastered, your body will know what to do on the street. You have muscle memory and an overall confidence in movement. It's not about thinking at all. It's a reaction that draws on the wealth of learned responses. If you know anything about martial arts, you will know what katas are—the series of movements put into a specific sequence such as the nan quan form. These forms teach the body to act not only with one technique, but to fluidly move through many.

When training in martial arts, there comes a point when you just know you can defend yourself. There is some critical mass that's reached. This doesn't mean you are omnipotent. It just means you are not without a self defense.

In the U.S. there are a lot of martial arts studios. Many are geared toward a business rather than toward actual love of the art. Even so, the students do learn something. But if you are going to learn martial arts, I would visit different dojos to see which teacher you resonate with. The first lesson is usually free.

I'm not familiar with Krav Maga. If nothing else, taking a martial arts class is a blast.

I practice Wing Chun in the Ip Man lineage and it is a very fascinating style. It is entirely defensive while being offensive in that it is a simultaneous block and counter system. We do not attack, our philosophy is that fighting is a last resort but if you go to strike us, we will hit you first. The system is responsive and conceptual so it is based in feeling and touch sensitivity. Advanced students often practice with blindfolds.

I feel the system very accurately portrays my philosophy of balance where everything is matched and followed. "Greet what comes. Follow what goes. If contact is lost, strike." So we do nothing until there is something to greet.  Until then we practice peace.

Another feature of Wing Chun is its use of 'forward energy' so we learn to push all of our energy forward in to the center line of the opponent while maintaining a firm stance. This goes very well with Chi Gung and Tai Chi style practices. Actually my sifu is also trained in Tai Chi.

What I think you would find funny is that there are no belts at all. The progression is from form to form. Since there are only 3 forms they expect them to be perfect before you progress. Each builds on the next. A story I've heard often is that someone once asked, 'Well what about a black belt?' Sifu's response was, 'Okay, everybody fights everybody, whoever is left standing, black belt.'

The point being that it doesn't matter where you are at, they will train you at where you are at. They are very accommodating. Although the story behind belts is kind of amusing. In the old days a fighter would only get one single belt in a dojo and they would not clean them so the older the person got, the dirtier the belt got until it was black. Thus an experienced fighter is a 'black belt'.

I don't have anything against belt systems, I just find the stories amusing.

Wing Chun!!!
-Falls to knees-
Teach mee--!!!

Tai Chi and Wing Chun call to me.

As for such nonlethal weaponry.

And the Police State...

It is my understanding I can't change the world.  I would rather avoid, thugs, police, weaponry, and violence overall...
Too much violence for my taste in the world...

Legalize guns.  Australia showed a full Gun Ban raises gun related criminal crimes.
Legalize guns, educate appropriate gun safety and use, educate yo frickin kids to see it as a dangerous weapon, not a toy or 'daddys shiny closet thing' or something like that.

If half the people who've robbed me at work knew the moment they turned around their knees would get shot at, the probably wouldn't bother.  Cigarettes and...well for some alcohol is worth their life...  So.

Swat team's exist and have been used to 'execute' (no knock raid) people before.

Its a scary country I'm in...

It is my understanding that an abundance of this attitude is the reason the world never changes. The first movement of change occurs within the self.

I'm by no means advanced enough to teach, I've been practicing for about 8 months now. If you want to come to Canada my Sifu is about as legitimate as you can get.

Kind of funny though that you are drawn to Wing Chun when you have a deterrence towards violence. Although it is a defensive system it is very aggressive and once the point of peace has been passed it is ruthless. We do not have rules. The rule is to end the fight quickly and effectively. This means there is no dirty fighting in our eyes. We strike at vulnerable, weak and easily damaged points. This is fair since we make every effort possible to avoid the point of combat.

Tai Chi on the other hand sounds like more in the vein you are looking for and if you find a competent teacher (which are not so common) it can be a very powerful martial systems. The guy my Sifu trained with is one of the world champions in Chi Sao, sticky hands. Might also try Aikido, another system that is very much about non-lethal and minimizing damage. The 'Art of Peace' is a book you might find interesting.

Needless to say, the island on which I live is, I think, a boiling pot of secret masters and ancient teaching. I've heard that our island is something of the 'new Atlantis'. Many mysterious things going on here.

Bold is exactly why Wing Chun calls to me.  Violence is also inevitable in this world. . .I haven't encountered it yet, but it has been all around me constantly.  I don't want to come into contact with it and get wiped across the floor like a worthless nobody I often feel like.  To be able to just show people from one moment of being docile to an explosive force of defense/offense from moment to moment without needing to be extraneous or flashy, to just showcase it, a physical 'leave me alone, or else.'  In cases like the one you mentioned, or to literally put a person off their feet if they are a real threat.

I've heard Aikido before but it feels too vulnerable to me.  Tai Chi is more a mental calling, Wing Chun is somewhat physical.

I've also seen the Ipman movies, I derive my basis of desire for Wing Chun off of the fact I highly appreciated the Philosophy towards fighting showcased in the movies.  It is not something to seek out, violence and conflict find you, it is up to you to defend and keep it away.  For the sake of peace, violence is avoided, for the sake of survival, violence can also be embraced in the ways you mentioned, attacks at the eyes and throat, lethal strikes, using surroundings as an extension of yourself as well as a tool/weapon all in the name of defense/offense, or what I term, Survival.

Yeah, I liked it.  Tai Chi however calls to me intellectually towards the mentality of the martial art.  I understand it's a somewhat meditative style?

I don't think you understand Aion.  I am scared of the violence enough to embrace it, like being terrified of the ocean and finally entering it (something I did).  Often times my first thoughts are the go after the eyes and throat if I ever get into a dangerous fight.  I've even begun carrying a multitool and a small pocket knife on me at work for safety...  If I could rely on my body and not a simple blade I'd feel much more safe and comfortable quite often honestly.  Wing Chun is exactly what I was always wanting.  A very well balanced defense/offense 'parry' style and 'quiet' style martial art.  I don't like attacking.  I play defense.  I do this in real life, I do this in video games, I do this.  I stay back, I take in the surroundings, I react, I don't pro-act unless I see a chance to do so that is basically safe or plausible.

I feel like your intentions are very close to my own, except perhaps that I maybe find it too enjoyable at times to engage in violence and it is that pleasure I seek to not be tempted by. That being said, I am well aware of this in myself and so have never been a violent individual, but I do think I have tried to be threatening enough to avoid fighting.

I think you would be a good student, you should come learn from Bob. I haven't seen any of the Ip Man movies but I was/am very fond of old kung fu films and was very influenced by Jackie Chan who uses a tight Wing Chun style.

They were on all netflix while my Initiation from the Ra Material was going on, seemed a very synchronistic series of films for me...

I hate violence, I love it when no one is actually getting hurt, it can be fun, like hitting another with a pool foam noodle or inflatable boxing gloves.  But once you include pain and injury, it's not fun, it's cruel.  The only exception is actual training fighting in my mind.  When you assault another with intent to teach and not harm is where I think violence ceases and becomes catalyst I'd accept.  To have a punch hit me off my feet, followed by a hand helping me up is much more preferable to a foot going into my rib, or head.

And to land a punch without intent to kill...

My problem is I'm lower body strength oriented physically, my strength is in my legs and back, not so much my arms, and I'm bad with balance so that's a horrible mixture by default, leg oriented fighting with bad balance?  LOL kiss my ass good bye -mwah-

I'd totes move to 'New Atlantis, Canada' to learn Wing Chun.

Hell I'd move to Asia to become a meditating martial arts monk who gardens and does archery.

...Huh.  I would do that literally tomorrow if I could, that's how much I'd be okay with that...

Either I mean lol...  For a while I was prepared to go live with a lady in New Zealand who offered to take me in who was pretty heavily into spirituality and nonjudgment based philosophy, but as always.

I am poor.

(11-29-2015, 01:21 PM)Steampunkish Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-28-2015, 12:59 PM)Elros Tar-Minyatur Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-28-2015, 06:39 AM)earth_spirit Wrote: [ -> ]And from a purely worldly perspective, I believe such people should to be put down. There is no need for punishment or incarceration, just put them down. If violent entities are only going to respawn elsewhere upon their death (preferably somewhere far away), then why is killing them such a big deal? It would help them with their karmic debts.

Or perhaps it would add more to their karmic debts and they will express more of that same violence or maybe even a greater one somewhere far away on other-selves which are not you and me in our current awareness.

...

To answer the post as a whole, Ra has said that the balanced entity's response to all things is love.

It was also said that love is known in a unique manner to each and that STO derives from how it is know. As such I can see a love-response that kills under the right circumstances just as a love-driven one that simply wishes to offer healing if healing is sought.

So it means that you have to leave your self get brutally beaten is that right ?

I actually have a friend who did exactly that. It's kind of funny to me my life has an example of this whole argument.

As the story goes he was staying in a motel up north, very cold. He is a guy who has gone to South America numerous times, spending about five years there in shamanic and healing modality training, he is one of the best shamanic healers I know. He said that there were three guys outside who had been waiting for a ride and like I said it was very cold out. They knocked on the door and asked if they could come in to wait to get out of the cold. My friend felt a little odd but being compassionate he let them in.

As it went there was some small talk and things started to feel a little awkward. Then my friend said something and either the guy misheard or intentionally 'misheard' and made some response about 'what did you say about my mother?', then the group proceeded to beat him bloody and then left. My friend made no attempt to retaliate and this is what he told me.

He told me that the man had been feeling immense amounts of pain and it was eating at him and welling up inside, waiting to explode. He said he was thankful that he was able to give the man a channel for his pain because using his healing abilities he can draw energy out from others. He saw it as being a situation in which he was able to help heal, even if the other man didn't realize it at the time. Obviously it was a brutal situation, but rather than be traumatized he took that catalyst and turned it in to a magical circumstance.

Obviously I don't necessarily recommend this approach to everyone but I do honour and respect it. I think my friend is on a true path to adeptship. In time he will balance his martyr tendencies as well and grow exponentially more aware of his abilities to heal. I miss that guy, haven't seen him in a long time.