Bring4th

Apology as in Explanation:

1.0 "Let us for a moment consider thought.
What is it, my friends, to take thought?
Took you then thought today?
What thoughts did you think today?
What thoughts were part of the original thought today?
In how many of your thoughts did the creation abide?
Was love contained?
And was service freely given?
You are not part of a material universe.
You are part of a thought.
You are dancing in a ballroom in which there is no material.
You are dancing thoughts.
You move your body, your mind, and your spirit in somewhat eccentric patterns for you have not completely grasped the concept that you are part of the original thought."

What is the Original Thought?

Quote:82.10 Questioner: Why does this partaking in the original thought have a gradient radially outward? That’s the way I understand your statement.

"I am Ra.
This is the plan of the One Infinite Creator.
The One Original Thought is the harvest of all previous, if you would use this term, experience of the Creator by the Creator.
As It decides to know Itself It generates Itself into that plenum, full of the glory and the power of the One Infinite Creator which is manifested to your perceptions as space or outer space.
Each generation of this knowing begets a knowing which has the capacity, through free will, to choose methods of knowing Itself.
Therefore, gradually, step by step, the Creator becomes that which may know Itself, and the portions of the Creator partake less purely in the power of the original word or thought.
This is for the purpose of refinement of the one original thought.
The Creator does not properly create as much as It experiences Itself."

...Sooooo the Original Thought is the Infinite Soul-Stream of the One Infinite Creator directing itself?  So then when Ra says the Infinite Creator is Re-experiencing itself, they don't mean like a 'repeat' button, but instead that it literally designs and creates then explores itself after giving every facet of itself the free will to be as it will be, the Creator does not self-interfere so much as guide in areas where it is deemed needed?  So then how does it Re-experience and perform this all?

(Which requires getting into Logos differentiating the underlying patterned constructions of intelligent infinity or the 'uniquification' of the laws of reality both meta/physically.  Which occurs to create the playground for the Creator to generate itself in various mannerisms and ways to infinitely continue experiencing.  So to just fast-forward through all of that since the semantics break down considerably with extended distortion of terms in proper subtle contexts...  Logos=...varies? black hole? [correct me if I'm wrong], Sub Logos=sun, Sub-Sub Logos=mind/body/spirit complex.)

Quote:54.8 Questioner: OK. Once a mind/body/spirit complex becomes aware of this process it then decides that in order to have the abilities, the full abilities of the Creation and the Creator of which it is a small part yet at the same time, all of, in order to have the abilities that go with the entire Creation, it is necessary to reunite its thinking or reharmonize its thinking with the Original Creative Thought in precise vibration or frequency of vibration I will say. In order to do this it is necessary to discipline the personality so that it precisely conforms to the Original Thought or Original Vibration, and this is broken into seven areas of discipline each corresponding to one of the colors of the spectrum. Is this correct?

"I am Ra.
This statement, though correct, bears great potential for being misunderstood.
The precision with which each energy center matches the Original Thought lies not in the systematic placement of each energy nexus but rather in the fluid and plastic placement of the balanced blending of these energy centers in such a way that intelligent energy is able to channel itself with minimal distortion.

The mind/body/spirit complex is not a machine. It is rather what you might call a tone poem."

So it Re-experiences itself by becoming a distortion of itself, with a bias to seek it's purity, with various paths of distorted purity gradually blending upwards into various more pure or less distorted gradients of itself.  Essentially, re-experiencing the grand eternal infinite permanent changing being of itself, since it isn't 'repeating' so much as 'exploring' via re-experiencing.  Like a Video Game Creator designing its level, but giving the level it's own will to also design itself, then exploring that with some knowledge but not all.  Which in this veil state is like upping the ante, you come into it knowing nothing but if you can remember and retain being through the heavy distortions it shines like an intensified sparkle in terms of experience, it's the true re-meeting of self in blindness to self in chances of near-hopelessness poignantly, maybe out of necessity, or maybe just by chance, to be looked at later on in a place of review to come to fully appreciate the experience after-the-fact, or even at a place of review before changing physical form (death).  So the real question is whats the purpose of the Original Thought?

Quote:71.12 Questioner: Then it seems to me from this that the sub-Logos such as our sun uses free will to modify only slightly a much more general idea of created evolution so that the general plan of created evolution, which seems then to be uniform throughout the One Infinite Creation, is for this process of the sub-Logoi to grow through the densities and, under the first distortion, find their way back to the original thought. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is correct.

(My Note to You: Remember that Ra says the Logos does not experience the same distortions of progression through Densities as us Sub-Sub Logoi do, including our Sun, a Sub-Logoi, so in this quote where Ra answers yes to Don's 'sub-logoi' question, I take it that the subject context is in regards to all Sub-Logoi including Sub-Sub Logoi and not just Stars and Black Holes.)

So the Original Thought is Unconditional Love Meeting itself infinitely through itself, with Unconditional Love really just meaning One Infinite Creator.  Even though I couldn't find the Quote that says the Original Thought is most closely related to our concept of Unconditional Love...  I swear it's somewhere...  If we all go on that premise, then it's fair game to say we are Love, learning to be ourselves towards each other, with Love imbued, whether in positive or negative polarity (though negative polarity might not call it 'love', everything is 'love' when you care about it in some way to be attached or detached.) thus...

The Purpose of Existence, is to Be Your God Damn Self.

You are Designed to naturally progress when you just Be Your God Damn Self.  Polarity wise, if you just Be Your God Damn Self you will come to your desired output regardless, unless you assign unrealistic goals, which some of us do as our normal God Damn Selves.  The Ego is also us, and is not something to transcend or overcome.

It falls away when you perform this simple act towards it.

Accept and Love, Cherish it, do not silence it, do not hold it in the dark when your light of consciousness comes around.  Put it upon the same pedestal you would a beautiful rose.  The skeletons in your heart are just as beautiful as the skeletons all around you.  To judge yourself is to perpetuate such pain.  You are here to learn Love, and Love comes in All Ways, so everything you're learning is Love.

I'm tired of seeing us quibble and squabble over semantics, differentiating context between individual/collective in various areas but not all areas.  I do it a lot, and I see others do who don't seem to realize it, or maybe you do like I do and just don't know how to fully explain how something is both individual and collective, while still appearing only individualized, without collectivity when that's literally by design impossible, except where made possible for intents of experiencing fulfilling the 'there is no impossible' aspect, except where such a design is desired.  Thus such as in 3D where we are very limited.  Impossible is an aspect, not an absolute.  It falls in line with Improbable, Implausible.  It is not typical except when desired to be, and in 3D that is a desire, the need to be limited to push self, to learn more intensely, stringently maybe, or more openly, freely,with a myriad web of varieties of experiences populating each life until it's one long memory of artwork rather than scruff and gruff, unless that's part of what made it artfully creative and beautiful.

Because your Personality is in of itself a Creative Design, you are inherently Creative.  So when we speak of any thing, perhaps it helps to know that everything is one thing, and so perfectly made to look separated that it is logically impossible to have ever truly been except in appearance, a perfection of Creatively Creating Reality to be as it was desired to be in this place, appearing separate to be learned to overcome.

A Hydrogen Atom contains the whole Cosmos, it is thus by design, One Infinite Creation/Creator.  From the smallest to the largest.

All is One, at the exact same time, simultaneity.

Which begins the endless process of additions, and which being in itself also a design, allows one to further creatively refine itself while being itself.  Literally like a video game character who can change aspects of itself from look to stats by simply the same way we might move our arm or smile if we did so from Point B towards our-tangible self on Point A, except Point B is 'in the future' and Point A is 'in the present' (both are the same 'time'; 'present/future/past')  so yourself on Point B points yourself on Point A creatively to help guide the design without interfering with it's actual decision making.

Polarity stuff makes NO SENSE to me after a point, it all falls apart into logical incoherency of contradictions and semantics.

Unity stuff makes complete sense to me.

Isn't it incredible...
I might live in Hell, but at least I know Hell is Heaven, there is no differentiation, everything is everything, it's just what you focus on to make which parts stand out, and the rest 'hidden in plain sight' behind the focus, no different than being a camera trying to capture something clearly but focusing on the wrong areas making my actual desired subject-focus blurry.

-yawns and pulls up controller-
Anyways, just wanted to tell y'all that we're kurrayyzzy and so we should stop being so bothered by everything and realize everything is kurrayyzzy and thus nothing cannot not, NOT make sense!

-puts on headset-
Off to the Battlefield for me, using my knowledge of unity to dominate superficially virtually and make life easier for everyone around me.

Like my coworkers and mother, and friends.

And my self.

-electrically fades away into static-

lol be your god blessed self?

Why do you say polarity makes no sense to you? Which I assume applies to within the exploration of this duality of love in face of self being among other-selves. Which is designed so that to evolve or advance, one needs to generate desires of it's own and polarize it into either a sto/sts or sts/sto focus.

I agree about not being bothered, not to not care whatosever but to understand that there's the tides of fate doing it's work. We're all kurrayyzzy in the exploration of the One Great Insanity.

(12-02-2015, 09:33 AM)The_Tired_Philosopher Wrote: [ -> ]Polarity stuff makes NO SENSE to me after a point, it all falls apart into logical incoherency of contradictions and semantics.

Unity stuff makes complete sense to me.

You think there is a difference between the concept of polarity and the concept of unity? I always saw them as the same concept in different words.

Polarity to me is offering Package A and Package B, you desire either but one calls to you a bit more over the other.

In Unity, you've packages Infinity A to Infinity B.  All paths lead right where they will need to lead to by design.

Polarity is by design the same thing as Crazy, Doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result, then being baffled when it doesn't go that way by design.

Polarity thus makes sense to me in Concept and Theory and even Execution, but in regards to Truth, what I seek, it is THE, 'THEE', like "THE" number 1 distraction from Truth.

Its like  Politics, makes no sense despite 'making sense'.

Blessed, Damned...  Its the same thing, Creator cares about you.
Love, Hate...  Its the same thing, You care a lot about something.

Its that care that matters to me.  Its my road home.  Love or Hate, and I feel both greatly, they take me right where I'm supposed to go.

The realization all is related, inter-penetrated\ing all together intertwined like a perfect sacred geometric quilt.

Caring is Loving, Hate is inversed Love.  Its still love.  Inversed colors are both 'that color' and its usual self.

Reality is tricky, but it only takes faith to see, even the illiterate could understand, the blind could see, the deaf could hear it.  Its that thing that makes no sense, is 'illogical', 'irrational', yet IS and more stably so than the infinite Logic and Rationality of Self-Perpetuated-Logic and Rationality permeating around you.

It could simply be known as Complex Logic, but in our nonunderstanding, we dismiss it as being less-so of what it is despite it being more so.

The exact opposite of us mistaking Aliens for being
God-like.

We're pretty amazing when you look at us without judgment.  Baffling at times even.

I see polarity as simply: the degree to which you are consciously identified with unity.  

The more identified with oneness you are, the more qualities of the creator you are able to consciously express.  This goes for both polarities.

However, the orientation of STO is towards love of truth, whereas the orientation of STS is toward love of falsity.  Polarity necessarily involves an intensification of awareness of the difference between truth/falsity.  One polarity finds more pleasure in truth, the other finds more pleasure in illusion.  I don't want it to sound like one polarity "realizes" the truth and other polarity doesn't.  It isn't like that.  They both understand.

For example, a higher polarized STS uses their polarity to potentiate control of the illusion to its highest degree, because they enjoy the illusion of manyness and separation.  That is the game they like to play, whereas STO like to play the "leaving the illusion" game altogether.

And then you have your 3rd densities, who do a little of this and a little of that, frolicking about in the "sinkhole of indifference" until catalyst causes them to polarize as their deepest desires become distilled and clear.

this post was so good i had to post it to my confederation group on Facebook.

hope you don't mind tired philosopher.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/copitsotic/

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(12-02-2015, 02:07 PM)earth_spirit Wrote: [ -> ]STO isn't any less a "falsity" than STS.

I didn't say it was.

(12-02-2015, 02:07 PM)earth_spirit Wrote: [ -> ]I'd say those of STS path simply like the illusion of power, control, darkness, et cetera. It is a matter of preference, nothing more.

If not for the "illusion of manyness and seperation", STO path would be meaningless. I am inclined toward STO, and I very much love the illusion of seperation.

I agree, and I never implied otherwise.  And it is fine to be STO and, simultaneously enjoy the illusion.  We're 3rd density, that is perfectly natural.  And also, polarity isn't a light switch.  It isn't an either on or off thing, it's a gradiated continuum.  I would say that most of the things we, if we are STO beings, tend to "like" about the illusion are actually the parts of it that resonate with truth.  For example: equality, compassion, communal sharing, and things of that nature.  Whereas a STS being may enjoy things like: taking advantage of others, being more powerful than others, getting revenge on somebody that wronged them.

(12-02-2015, 02:07 PM)earth_spirit Wrote: [ -> ]"leaving the illusion" = Unity with the Creator. That would require a lack of polarity (let alone an individuated sense of self), and as such I find it misleading to attribute such a goal to the STO path.

The entire universe is a result of the Creator's desire to experience himself. The OIC is performing a service to himself.

The "truth" is that there are no others to love and serve. Dark Wanderers have no need to hide from this truth, surely they embrace it.

If one of the polarities is more logically consistent than the other, it is without a doubt the STS path. The only self awareness, focal point of consciousness you can "know" is that of the Self. All the "others" could be products of your imagination, computer generated AI or simulacra.

I think you may be misinterpreting what I'm saying.  It sounds like you are interpreting my words as saying that STS are these ignorant dudes and have no clue of the nature of reality.    That is the exact opposite of what I'm saying.  Neither polarity is more logically consistent than the other.  When "self" and "others" are the same (as in the creator), then service to self and service to others are the same thing.  I said that both polarities become aware of the line between truth and falsity.  That means, to the extent you are polarized, you are aware of what is truth, and what is falsity.  STS beings like the illusion and want it to continue, and there is nothing wrong with that.  STO want to escape the illusion entirely.  Again, no right or wrong in that, it is just, as you said, simple preference.  Some love darkness, some love light.

And as far as leaving the illusion and returning to the creator: I believe that while the polarities are, technically, defined by each other, and that in the absence of one there is no polarity as we normally understand it, the STS path is still called by Ra "path of that which is not".  There is a reason for that.  The creator is positive, because positivity is unity.  Negativity is separation.  In the absence of separation, then, there is just unity, or positivity.  This is also why ALL higher selves are positive and not negative.  And why all negatives, switch over to positive in mid sixth density.  Because unity is, by default, *positive*.

(12-02-2015, 02:07 PM)earth_spirit Wrote: [ -> ]I think there is nothing wrong with frolicking about in the sinkhole of indifference. That is as valid a path as any other. I see no point in pursuing metaphysical progression if all existence is cyclical in nature.

Again, I never said there was anything wrong with it.  It was just an observation, not a judgment of those who would do so.  There is nothing wrong with any particular level of existence, but each level has certain characteristics and one can observe and describe those characteristics.

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Quote:"this post was so good i had to post it to my confederation group on Facebook.

hope you don't mind tired philosopher.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/copitsotic/"

Heheheh!!  I reread my own post as if I were someone else.  I come on a bit strong!  

It's fine!  I'm glad I've been meditating and doing yoga, it's really helped me make sense of...  Well, actually I thought up that entire post right after I started my game so I was really in a very matter-of-fact feeling, it took me literally 5 minutes to find each quote, and provide my own ponderings linking to the explanation I was aiming for.

I also think Ra has a very powerful form of sentence structuring in regards to complicated explanations in subtle patterns.  They sound like they speak in poetry when you read each sentence stand alone next to each other.

It's a bit romantic feeling actually, makes me feel all mushy-gushy inside how articulated and...informative they are in answering.

...Oh man, what's the word for this feeling!?  Uhh, Sapiosexual?  Feels attraction towards intelligence?
-shrugs- beats me, I"m really sleepy at the moment.

Anyways, thank you for the exposure I guess?  Or for enjoying it so thoroughly.  It's weird how when I try, it's like I over roughen my own ideas, but when I just wanna do it good and fast it comes out halfway decent in explanation.

Quote:"I see polarity as simply: the degree to which you are consciously identified with unity.  

The more identified with oneness you are, the more qualities of the creator you are able to consciously express.  This goes for both polarities.

However, the orientation of STO is towards love of truth, whereas the orientation of STS is toward love of falsity.  Polarity necessarily involves an intensification of awareness of the difference between truth/falsity.  One polarity finds more pleasure in truth, the other finds more pleasure in illusion.  I don't want it to sound like one polarity "realizes" the truth and other polarity doesn't.  It isn't like that.  They both understand.

For example, a higher polarized STS uses their polarity to potentiate control of the illusion to its highest degree, because they enjoy the illusion of manyness and separation.  That is the game they like to play, whereas STO like to play the "leaving the illusion" game altogether.

And then you have your 3rd densities, who do a little of this and a little of that, frolicking about in the "sinkhole of indifference" until catalyst causes them to polarize as their deepest desires become distilled and clear."

Anagogy, in 3D many entities do not come to meet their greatest desires, quite the opposite, quite often even.  I speak of our Ego's and Human Shells.  Though some don't posit any love for their bodies or their born-with physical minds, I like to feel that they are valid too, each incarnation, including the ones who are basically abused and cruelly managed across a lifetime by their lack of discipline of personality you could call it, or self responsibility or self control.  I like to remember all the people in just World War Two who were, well, extinguished is the nicest way to put it, I don't actually remember them all, but it's sad how one death is a tragedy, and several hundred thousand or million is a statistic...  To me, it's all horror.  So I imagine to others, who are just like me, when they gaze into that hell they probably see horror too, while some gaze in and are more focused on opportunity ignoring the horror around them.  There's many bodies who did not meet their greatest desires, many physical minds who now know only darkness and absence of consciousness as far as I am aware with their last thoughts being of violence and cruelty.
I do not agree with what Ra calls 3D as the Density of Desire.  When you factor in the Pure Electro-Chemical receptacle that is right now blending your personality into your own physical personality imbued with the physical mind's biases and habitual ways of operation, making your entire body from stomach to heart to brain as it is, and also being that 'machine' in which you are dependent upon to experience 3D reality, of which you must feed and shelter and care for it as it is yourself.  Including the tenderness of thought towards self as you can also cultivate your own mind like you can your body.  Your Complex in it's entirety is you, but many disregard the implication that this ties you to Earth once you are in a Human Body, that you are now tied to a Physical Mind that can influence your Emotional Body in various ways, especially with Intellect and Restlessness to produce various forms of intense or extreme emotions.  That you are now tied to the formations and construction of 3D reality, that your brain forms habits through neural networks, that your DNA requires you be specific ways to properly be tuned to transmit data metaphysically to understand how to change to anything more desirous, that you need air, water, nutrients, warmth, and various other things.

Your Ego, that Physical Mind.  Your Body.  They are despite being Machines and essentially just shells, both Human Shell and Personality Shell, they are still Creator, they are still you, they are still aware in some fashion, they still are a lesson more to love, than to control.

Love, as you do so and accept it, it does fall away naturally by design, as if to say it were a shell that you gently pulled back by showing it that it no longer needed to protect you, you're good to go.

Not many people are actually good to go, but that doesn't mean they're not ready to be!

The Shadow Self, essentially, is what you are loving and fully accepting and no longer hiding except where appropriate in your surroundings/setting, additionally to that, is your Ego which we can possibly in ways attribute to being what completely makes up your Shadow Self, love thy self, ego and all.  Accept your Pride, it is a tool to guide you, see when you are overusing a tool and give it rest.  Enjoy your Greed, it's what guides you typically, when you overindulge is the issue.  Accept your Guilt and Shame, but don't let them rule you.  I'm still trying to figure out Anxiety though, I'm finding that 'just doing' something and getting it over with is more helpful than trying to logically work through it...  But my point is that everything is a tool, a distortion is better called a Tool, a Tool to re-experience self, a Tool to Discovery, purposeful tools, in a by design created game or reality, that is less game and very serious, albeit...Fun in retrospect, but basically a holographic reality of thought-form-solidified tools or thought-form-complex tool or thought-form-emotion tool, but typically some form of distortion of pure intelligent energy into a 'thought-form' or geometric form or energetic frequency/vibration but typically some kind of 'thought form' including frequency thought-forms and vibration thought-forms.

Reality is a giant series of tools, we just need to learn.  Polarity is one way to discover and learn, but the end game of polarity is based for 3D, I'm seeking Truth so I'm looking beyond the scope of 3D, which makes looking through Polarity a very confusing act, kaleidoscopic, insanely complex in reasonings to come to simple conclusions when in other forms of thinking such as the self-resolving-paradoxically complex unity form of complex reasoning you can simply deduce those simple conclusions without needing to subtly figure out the insanely complex reasoning of a more individuated and 'clashing' concept like polarity's two paths, logically.

...Wow, that was a thought-full.  (like mouth-full?)

Anyways, now I'm super tired, thank you for talking to me, all.  Night guys~

(12-02-2015, 03:23 PM)earth_spirit Wrote: [ -> ]Far as I'm concerned, you did give a false understanding of STS.

I don't know why you said "love of falsity". STS simply necessitates love of self.

Anything that is not OIC is an illusion, distortion. STO entities love "falsity" as much as STS ones.

"80.8 Questioner: I am sorry for my lack of penetration of these mechanisms and I apologize for some rather stupid questions, but I think we have here a point that is somewhat central to what we are presently attempting to understand, so even though my next questions may be almost unacceptably stupid, I will attempt to try to understand what this power that our visitor seeks is and how he uses it. For it seems to me that this is central to the mind and the evolution of it in which we are involved.

As this entity that is our visitor increases his power through these works, what is the power that he increases? Can you describe it?

Ra: I am Ra. The power of which you speak is a spiritual power. The powers of the mind, as such, do not encompass such works as these. You may, with some fruitfulness, consider the possibilities of moonlight. You are aware that we have described the Matrix of the Spirit as a night. The moonlight, then, offers either a true picture seen in shadow or chimera and falsity. The power of falsity is deep as is the power to discern truth from shadow. The shadow of hidden things is an infinite depth in which is stored the power of the One Infinite Creator.

The adept, then, is working with the power of hidden things illuminated by that which can be false or true. To embrace falsity, to know it, to seek it, and to use it gives a power that is most great. This is the nature of the power of your visitor and may shed some light upon the power of one who seeks in order to serve others as well, for the missteps in the night are oh! so easy."

This is what I mean by STS loving falsity.  They actively seek it, as Ra says right here.  

(12-02-2015, 03:23 PM)earth_spirit Wrote: [ -> ]I just did not appreciate your extended hypothesis.

"For example, a higher polarized STS uses their polarity to potentiate control of the illusion to its highest degree, because they enjoy the illusion of manyness and separation."

Basically, you said X does Y because Z.

I responded with X likes to do Y. In my view, any further guesswork at causality is redundant.

I guess I'm not understanding your point then.  From my perspective an STS uses the power of falsity to control others.  Without illusion, falsity, untruth, the path of that which is not, they cannot enjoy their STS games, because in the absence of separation, there are no STS games to play.

However, in the absence of separation all is one, which is what the positive path is ultimately seeking.  One path is a path of control of all, the other is the path of acceptance of all.

(12-02-2015, 03:23 PM)earth_spirit Wrote: [ -> ]I guess it goes without saying that this is only your unsubstantiated opinion. (can't believe I spelled that phrase correctly)

As is yours?

(12-02-2015, 03:23 PM)earth_spirit Wrote: [ -> ]In order for STO path to exist, there must be an illusion of manyness. To "escape" this illusion is to stop being an STO entity.

You are saying that like it is something to be avoided.  A highly polarized STO being wants to return to the creator and end the illusion.  The "STO path" is just a means to an end, just as the "STS path" is a means to a end.  The paths have similarities but severely diverge towards the end.

(12-02-2015, 03:23 PM)earth_spirit Wrote: [ -> ]Anyway, no offense implied and I don't mean to contradict you. I just did not appreciate some of your views and choice of words. They did not resonate with me, so I decided to offer whatever understanding I've been able to develop on my own.

No offense to you either, even though I disagree with some of your concepts.  

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I'm not all that sure the STO path is all that efficient toward moving outside of illusion. Seems like a slow evolution as focus is not put on self so much.

(12-02-2015, 04:37 PM)earth_spirit Wrote: [ -> ]Right, now I understand your reasoning with falsity.

I thought of "falsity" as something interchangable with illusion or distortion. That is my fault entirely.

It seems we have further discussion then, because I believe that "falsity" is, in fact, interchangeable with "illusion" and "distortion".  My question is: why do you find one word acceptable, but the others unacceptable?  Or rather, why do you find an association between falsity and negativity aversive?  

Please understand, I am not saying that a highly negatively polarized being does not know the difference between truth and illusion, rather, I'm saying that illusion makes everything that they desire, possible.  If you desire "control over others", that is only possible *within* illusion.  They utilize *illusion* and *falsity* and *distortion* in order to control others.  It is what they like to do.  If you disagree with that concept, then you and I have very different ideas about what a negatively polarized being is like.

Now, service to others is also only possible within illusion, but they don't take those actions because of the illusion, but rather, because of the truth *outside* of the illusion (the truth being that we are all the same being).

I should clarify that I'm not talking about 3rd density beings, for the most part.  I'm am talking about higher density beings that pursuing adepthood along their given paths.  A 3rd density being may engage in STO or STS behavior on an unconscious whim and have no particular conscious understanding of the cosmic metaphysical process at work.

(12-02-2015, 04:37 PM)earth_spirit Wrote: [ -> ]The point I made in my first response to your post is that; STO would be meaningless the without illusion of manyness. Whereas you used the illusion of manyness/seperation as a defining characteristic of the STS path. This I found disagreeable, and in the following post I also expressed my distaste for your overly long hypothesis.

You've already "agreed" with the initial point I made. There is no room for misunderstanding.

I'm not so sure.  I do maintain that separation is a defining characteristic of the STS path, however I am not saying that separation isn't part of the STO path as well, it just plays a completely different role.  Ra often refers to the negative path as "the path of separation".  Take a look at the following Ra quote, it talks about the role of illusion on the STS path:

"Ra: The polarities are both dependent upon a limited viewpoint. However, the negative polarity depends more heavily upon the illusory separation betwixt the self and all other mind/body/spirit complexes. The positive polarity attempts to see through the illusion to the Creator in each mind/body/spirit complex, but for the greater part is concerned with behaviors and thoughts directed towards other-selves in order to be of service. This attitude in itself is full of the stuff of your third-density illusion."  

This Ra quote mirrors what I'm attempting to get across, nigh perfectly.  Both paths are of illusion, but the intentions of both polarity use the illusion entirely opposite of each other.

(12-02-2015, 04:37 PM)earth_spirit Wrote: [ -> ]For what it's worth, the "control of all" path seems hopelessly impractical to me.

I think it is impractical as a way to fully rejoin the creator, but quite practical if one is simply pursuing the feeling of absolute power.  Of course, an STS being knows it is not going to rule the universe as some kind of god, it just wants to get as close as possible.

(12-02-2015, 04:37 PM)earth_spirit Wrote: [ -> ]This sort of presumption is what I was referring to with unsubstantiated opinion.

STO entity wants to do X or STS entity does Y because of Z. To which one could say, not necessarily.

Even if all entities must return as a natural consequence of reality, I see no reason to pursue it. You'll return, and start from scratch elsewhere.

I will concede in the case of 3rd density entities, the reason why they pursue any particular polarized action is probably not consciously motivated toward seeking the creator or ending illusion for themselves.  They simply do what is in their nature to do, and it doesn't become conscious polarization till they are far down the path of simply reacting according to their unconscious nature.

(12-02-2015, 04:37 PM)earth_spirit Wrote: [ -> ]Instead of diverge, I'd say they merge into one.

The reason I say diverge is because you can't reach the creator through the service to self path, which is why STS entities choose an instantaneous energy realignment to positive in mid sixth density.  If the paths merged Ra would have said the come together, but Ra very clearly states that the negative switches over to positive polarity.

"Ra: The sixth-density negative entity is extremely wise. It observes the spiritual entropy occurring due to the lack of ability to express the unity of sixth density. Thus, loving the Creator and realizing at some point that the Creator is not only self but other-self as self, this entity consciously chooses an instantaneous energy reorientation so that it may continue its evolution."

So perhaps you are right in saying "the paths merge", but they don't merge "in the middle", so to speak, they merge in positivity.  But then, in the absence of negativity, it is difficult to define the positive as positive, however, I would still call it positive.  How else would one define "positive" if not by the degree it reflects unity?  How would you define positive?  How would you define negative?  See my problem?

(12-02-2015, 04:37 PM)earth_spirit Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-02-2015, 03:40 PM)anagogy Wrote: [ -> ]The creator is positive, because positivity is unity.

I'm not sure if I can agree with this. OIC is beyond polarity. He can't be positive/negative. He just is.

I must respectfully disagree.  Everything I "perceive" as "positive" has elements of unity in it.  Everything I perceive as "negative" has elements of separation in it.  So while I understand the desire to say the creator is polarity-less, I disagree with it.  I think all there is positivity, but we can only know that it is positive against the background of illusory negativity.  So in the absence of negativity, there is no polarity, but only in the sense that we can no longer can make the comparison.  

Essentially, there is positivity there, we just don't know it is positive. Again, what standard do you use for defining whether any given thing is positive or negative? For me, unity is positive, and separation is negative. Unity is an eternal truth, separation is a temporary false illusion. Positivity radiates, negativity absorbs.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one.

(12-02-2015, 05:15 PM)Elros Tar-Minyatur Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not all that sure the STO path is all that efficient toward moving outside of illusion. Seems like a slow evolution as focus is not put on self so much.

I guess I see it a little differently. When I think of "service to others", I think of "service to all", which includes self. So it is more a focus on "wholeness" or "unity".

(12-02-2015, 05:30 PM)anagogy Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-02-2015, 05:15 PM)Elros Tar-Minyatur Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not all that sure the STO path is all that efficient toward moving outside of illusion. Seems like a slow evolution as focus is not put on self so much.

I guess I see it a little differently.  When I think of "service to others", I think of "service to all", which includes self.  So it is more a focus on "wholeness" or "unity".

While I do agree with this I think both polarities prior to being transcended are a polarized focus of unity. As such neither path lies more in unity for unity englobes both of them.

Unity is that which does all the things but the STO polarity does not. Of course self is not excluded in the STO path as that would be quite a delusion, just as others are also not excluded in the STS path as self is an offering to the All. If the STS path creates catalysts for growth in an infringing manner for other-selves, then the STO path favorises stagnance and accomodance which tends to dwell in illusion in it's own way.

Of course both polarities have a gradiance of their own and quite a long evolution and number of lessons to move through.

(12-02-2015, 05:41 PM)Elros Tar-Minyatur Wrote: [ -> ]While I do agree with this I think both polarities prior to being transcended are a polarized focus of unity. As such neither path lies more in unity for unity englobes both of them.

But if this is true, why do sixth density negative beings have to switch over to positive in order to "continue" their evolution towards the creator?  Wouldn't that imply that unity is not achievable upon the negative path?

Quote:36.15 Questioner: Well, then let’s say that when Himmler, for instance, reaches sixth-density negative at the beginnings of sixth-density negative, at this time would it be [the] case that an entity would realize that his higher self is sixth-density positively oriented and for that reason make the jump from negative to positive orientation?

Ra: I am Ra. This is incorrect. The sixth-density negative entity is extremely wise. It observes the spiritual entropy occurring due to the lack of ability to express the unity of sixth density. Thus, loving the Creator and realizing at some point that the Creator is not only self but other-self as self, this entity consciously chooses an instantaneous energy reorientation so that it may continue its evolution.

(12-02-2015, 05:50 PM)anagogy Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-02-2015, 05:41 PM)Elros Tar-Minyatur Wrote: [ -> ]While I do agree with this I think both polarities prior to being transcended are a polarized focus of unity. As such neither path lies more in unity for unity englobes both of them.

But if this is true, why do sixth density negative beings have to switch over to positive in order to "continue" their evolution towards the creator?  Wouldn't that imply that unity is not achievable upon the negative path?

Quote:36.15 Questioner: Well, then let’s say that when Himmler, for instance, reaches sixth-density negative at the beginnings of sixth-density negative, at this time would it be [the] case that an entity would realize that his higher self is sixth-density positively oriented and for that reason make the jump from negative to positive orientation?

Ra: I am Ra. This is incorrect. The sixth-density negative entity is extremely wise. It observes the spiritual entropy occurring due to the lack of ability to express the unity of sixth density. Thus, loving the Creator and realizing at some point that the Creator is not only self but other-self as self, this entity consciously chooses an instantaneous energy reorientation so that it may continue its evolution.

I believe self is to be let go of entirely, which applies to the STO path just as the STS path, since both are built upon polarized desires of self. As such both serving self and serving others is to be let go of to move on from this experience. Re-polarizing is a step toward that more than STO already being the end game.

Ra also does state that there is no polarity and that unity always is complete. Polarity is a learning tool which was thought of/desired.

-----

Quote: Ra: I am Ra. We communicate now. We, too, have our place. We are not those of the Love or of the Light. We are those who are of the Law of One. In our vibration the polarities are harmonized, the complexities are simplified, and the paradoxes have their solution. We are one. That is our nature and our purpose.

unless we're defining everything in terms of intelligent infinity/energy then we're going to be dealing with abstract distortions of one form or another. The two paths have their own heirachies of distortions and paradoxes to work through but you cant say one is more false or true as they're all multifaceted distortions. in this sense my thinking is aligned closer to what earth-spirit seems to be suggesting.

Quote:15.21 Questioner: Well, in yesterday’s material you stated “we offer the Law of One, the solving of paradoxes.” You also mentioned earlier that the first paradox, or the first distortion I meant, was the distortion of free will. Could you tell me if there’s a sequence? Is there a first, second, third, fourth distortion of the Law of One?

Ra: I am Ra. Only up to a very short point. After this point, the many-ness of distortions are equal one to another. The first distortion, free will, finds focus. This is the second distortion known to you as Logos, the Creative Principle or Love. This intelligent energy thus creates a distortion known as Light. From these three distortions come many, many hierarchies of distortions, each having its own paradoxes to be synthesized, no one being more important than another.

with regard to to whether the upper 6d merger is a continuation of positive sto or an abandoning of polarity in favour of a wholistic love/light light/love approach is open to debate. Ra themselves suggests both, but i personally think their personality colours the descriptions they give, particularly toward the sts path. Part of me says the sts entity wouldnt really define it as switching to positive polarity lol but just as 'an instantaneous energy reorientation so that it may continue its evolution'

Quote:64.6
....
We seek now without polarity. Thus we do not invoke any power from without, for our search has become internalized as we become light/love and love/light. These are the balances we seek, the balances between compassion and wisdom which more and more allow our understanding of experience to be informed that we may come closer to the unity with the One Creator which we so joyfully seek.

Your rituals at your level of progress contain the concept of polarization and this is most central at your particular space/time.

Quote:36.12
....
after fifth-density graduation wisdom is available but must be matched with an equal amount of love. This love/light is very, very difficult to achieve in unity when following the negative path and during the earlier part of the sixth density, society complexes of the negative orientation will choose to release the potential and leap into the sixth-density positive.

Quote:36.15
...
The sixth-density negative entity is extremely wise. It observes the spiritual entropy occurring due to the lack of ability to express the unity of sixth density. Thus, loving the Creator and realizing at some point that the Creator is not only self but other-self as self, this entity consciously chooses an instantaneous energy reorientation so that it may continue its evolution.

(12-02-2015, 07:00 PM)earth_spirit Wrote: [ -> ]Given the Ra quote you provided, it does make sense to associate "falsity" with negative polarity. It is "distortion" that I find inappropriate to use in the same context.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think of distortion as pretty much every "thing" that is not the OIC in it's totality.

Falsity = that which is not

There isn't an illusion or distortion that is not of the Creator. Every "thing" is a "distortion", but there is no such thing as "falsity".

"Falsity" is only appropriate in a specific context like the Ra quote you provided.

I think it would be a bad idea to think of them as interchangable.

I think I see where our definitions diverge.  Let me explain the difference in how I see it:

A distortion is exactly that, "distorted".  It is not how it actually is.  It is a warped, illusory image of how things are.  So any "distortion" or "thing" is, to some degree, "false" because "that which is" is not accurately represented by said distortion.  As an example: you look into a pond.  There are gems on the bottom of the pond, but you cannot see them clearly as they actually are because there are waves on the surface distorting the true image.  This is *exactly* like the "distortions" that make up our existence.  You are seeing very real things, but incompletely.  So everything in our world, is a mixture of falsity and truth.  So I can agree that, in reality, there is no such thing as "falsity", but there is also no such thing as "distortion".  

But there *appears* to be, because of our flawed and incomplete perception of the wholeness of the universe.  All illusions, regardless of what they are, are dependent on this partial perception.  We are only seeing part of the real picture.

(12-02-2015, 07:00 PM)earth_spirit Wrote: [ -> ]It is also a defining characteristic of STO. You can't define service to others if there isn't already an accommodating illusion / distortion to manifest the said "others".

I would not try to define one polarity with a specific illusion / distortion just because it is "more heavily" dependant on the said illusion than it's positive counterpart.

Now that I look at it, this Ra quote seems a bit illogical to me. How can they say that STS is "more heavily" dependant on seperation than STO? How does "more heavy" work in this context? Especially when neither STS nor STO is possible without seperation.

Either I'm missing something, or they're having difficulties with our primitive language.

Ra may have referred to STS as "path of seperation", but that just doesn't resonate with me. Service to self is enough. I prefer concise definitions.

The reason why it is "more heavily" dependent on the illusion of separation is for the same reasons I've repeatedly said: it is the path of that which is not, the path of falsity.  Again, it doesn't mean they are less intelligent than STO, or less powerful, it just means that the negative path derives its POWER of influence from separation (which is illusion created by perception).  And the STO path derives its POWER of influence from unity.  It is the cosmic interplay of light and dark.  Falsity and truth are both very powerful.  One deliberately obscures, and one deliberately reveals (in relation to others).

(12-02-2015, 07:00 PM)earth_spirit Wrote: [ -> ]I just don't understand how you can casually make such assumptions about what an STO/STS entity wants, or is thinking and feeling. Maybe you "just know" that kind of thing as a consequence of your intuition.

Do you believe that all STO entities invariably want to end their illusion at some point of their existence? Does every single Higher Self seek to "Return" at all times, or do they merely want to serve the Creator and end up Returning as a natural course of events? I am inclined to believe the latter option myself.

All I know is what Ra has said, and implied, and also yes, what my intuition tells me.  I assure you, there is nothing casual about that conclusion.  Given those caveats, it is my understanding the more polarized you are on either path, the more spiritual mass you are gathering which has power to do work in consciousness.  Basically the more polarized you are, the closer to the creator you are (even though the creator is essentially polarity less).  Basically absolute service to others is the same as absolute service to self.  The only problem is, according to Ra, is that you can't actually achieve absolute service to self due to spiritual entropy (which is the resistance to unity).  That is why they switch to positive at the end.

And absolute service to others, and absolute service to self, is identical to no polarity whatsoever, because in the "absoluteness" everything becomes unified to the point where there are no others (and perhaps even no self as we commonly understand it -- which is why I don't believe STS is any more logically consistent in the grand scheme of things).

I think that the closer you get to the creator, the more you want to return, similar to how the closer one magnet gets to another magnet the stronger the attraction.  And throughout the Ra material there is a great emphasis on both paths "seeking the creator" in their own ways.  I believe outside this mortal shell, all beings will have a yearning to return to the creator but they cannot until they are of the same vibration which is what this polarity business is all about from my perspective.

(12-02-2015, 07:00 PM)earth_spirit Wrote: [ -> ]"I am Ra. Although this is correct it is not as perceptive as the notice that the Priestess, as this figure has been called, sits within a structure in which polarity, symbolized as you correctly noted by the light and dark pillars, is an integral and necessary part. The unfed mind has no polarity just as intelligent infinity has none. The nature of the sub-sub-sub-Logos which offers the third-density experience is one of polarity, not by choice but by careful design."

"I am Ra. The Law of One, though beyond the limitations of name, as you call vibratory sound complexes, may be approximated by stating that all things are one, that there is no polarity, no right or wrong, no disharmony, but only identity. All is one, and that one is love/light, light/love, the Infinite Creator."

"Ra:In truth there is no right or wrong. There is no polarity for all will be, as you would say, reconciled at some point in your dance through the mind/body/spirit complex which you amuse yourself by distorting in various ways at this time."

"Ra:We seek now without polarity."

I'm familiar with all those quotes, and I think perhaps we are having a semantic discussion at this point.  No polarity.  I agree.  However, I think it would be simplest for me to clarify my position by simply saying that the absence of polarity, does not mean the absence of positivity.  But it does equate to the absence of negativity. Explanation below:

Perhaps it would be best for us to just say polarity is a concept that only relates to interactions with other selves.  So in the absence of other selves, there is no polarity.  But in the absence of separation, there can only be harmony (which for me, is another word for "positivity" -- if you have a different vernacular I apologize for my definitions being confusing).

"Ra: We spoke to one who heard and understood and was in a position to decree the Law of One. However, the priests and peoples of that era quickly distorted our message, robbing it of the, shall we say, compassion with which unity is informed by its very nature. Since it contains all, it cannot abhor any."

Anyway, hopefully we've finally found some common ground of understanding on this intriguing topic. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

(12-02-2015, 06:57 PM)Elros Tar-Minyatur Wrote: [ -> ]I believe self is to be let go of entirely, which applies to the STO path just as the STS path, since both are built upon polarized desires of self. As such both serving self and serving others is to be let go of to move on from this experience. Re-polarizing is a step toward that more than STO already being the end game.

Ra also does state that there is no polarity and that unity always is complete. Polarity is a learning tool which was thought of/desired.

I actually agree with you with respect to the self being let go of. I believe the 8th density is beyond all concept of self, or even other self. Consciousness without self. Something like the Buddhist "nirvana".

Good, finally Heaven and Hell have balanced and you see now only the Void within which the Creator is all and nothing.

(12-02-2015, 08:14 PM)Aion Wrote: [ -> ]Good, finally Heaven and Hell have balanced and you see now only the Void within which the Creator is all and nothing.

Except that I would say it is as much of a plenum as it is a void.

(12-02-2015, 08:19 PM)anagogy Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-02-2015, 08:14 PM)Aion Wrote: [ -> ]Good, finally Heaven and Hell have balanced and you see now only the Void within which the Creator is all and nothing.

Except that I would say it is as much of a plenum as it is a void.

The plenum is Heaven and Hell, imo.

(12-02-2015, 07:54 PM)spero Wrote: [ -> ]unless we're defining everything in terms of intelligent infinity/energy then we're going to be dealing with abstract distortions of one form or another. The two paths have their own heirachies of distortions and paradoxes to work through but you cant say one is more false or true as they're all multifaceted distortions. in this sense my thinking is aligned closer to what earth-spirit seems to be suggesting.

Quote:15.21 Questioner: Well, in yesterday’s material you stated “we offer the Law of One, the solving of paradoxes.” You also mentioned earlier that the first paradox, or the first distortion I meant, was the distortion of free will. Could you tell me if there’s a sequence? Is there a first, second, third, fourth distortion of the Law of One?

Ra: I am Ra. Only up to a very short point. After this point, the many-ness of distortions are equal one to another. The first distortion, free will, finds focus. This is the second distortion known to you as Logos, the Creative Principle or Love. This intelligent energy thus creates a distortion known as Light. From these three distortions come many, many hierarchies of distortions, each having its own paradoxes to be synthesized, no one being more important than another.

with regard to to whether the upper 6d merger is a continuation of positive sto or an abandoning of polarity in favour of a wholistic love/light light/love approach is open to debate. Ra themselves suggests both, but i personally think their personality colours the descriptions they give, particularly toward the sts path. Part of me says the sts entity wouldnt really define it as switching to positive polarity lol but just as 'an instantaneous energy reorientation so that it may continue its evolution'

I'm not sure it could be perceived as such by all, picture that there are entities that have only grown in STS densities. As such repolarizing is entering an entirely different world and joining a group they probably have "fought" since near their dawn of their own "eternity", to harmonize further together as one. I like to think we're pieces of a puzzle, seprated in different fates to finally each get it's own experience to merge back into the blend. Each it's role and orientation of distortions.

I think 6D is not a working outward to understand/know the Universe, but a working inward to resolve the paradox of self. The remnants of distortions might just be what self holds most dearly to, it's own refined colours.

7D then is the process of letting go, merging slowly into timeless infinite spiritual mass.

Quote:For an analog one may observe the work of the one known as Albert who posits the growing to infinity of mass as this mass approaches the speed of light. Thus the seventh-density being, the completed being, the Creator who knows Itself, accumulates mass and compacts into the One Creator once again.

fair point ETM. we're all just taking stabs in the dark anyways lol 

-Wakes up-
-Yawns, rubs eye and looks at thread regarding Unity-
-Nothing but polarity semantic arguing between everyone-

. . .  
This is why I-- -sigh-
-Gets back under covers-

Or I guess maybe, nevermind...