Bring4th

If you had to describe the difference between green ray and blue ray, how would you, personally, characterize the difference?

I would say that blue-ray deals with structure.  And not just any structure or pattern seeking, but structure that has some fidelity to what is real.  And if one is dealing with what is real, then one is also dealing with truth at the same time.

One of the advantages of working with true structures is that they are highly predictive.  That is, you put in the inputs/parameters, and your structure/model then spits out a result that is highly likely.  That is the essence of wisdom.  Being able to know with high probability the outcome of a certain situation, without having to go through the pain of experiencing all possible successes and failures.  As wisdom increases, the Model/Structure becomes more and more refined until the need for external experience decreases to a very small amount.  

/ /

Green Ray I used to identify with the quality of Acceptance.  I also equate the positive path with the path of acceptance.  But isolating acceptance to just one energy centre is too limiting.  The positive entity uses acceptance as a way of relating to all types of experience.

Nowadays, I would use communion as best descriptor for green ray activity/seeking.  Communion is something more general and encompassing than relationships; which is more a yellow-ray bonding type of function.  Communion is about being able to be with the heart of someone, no matter where they are at on their journey, or what joys or difficulties they are experiencing.  True communion sometimes needs words; a lot of the time it doesn't.  Communion also doesn't distinguish between someone you have met for the first time, or someone who has been a family member your whole life.  You can be with them because soul essence does not really need to distinguish age or familiarity; there is a recognition of the 'sameness' between you and I, despite the many outward indicators that can measure things on a scale that seemingly lend itself to difference and separation.

Thanks for your thoughts, Plenum.

I find it helpful to refresh my perspectives on the rays every now and then and see if I can get alternate perspectives from other people.  Sometimes it fills in gaps in my perspective.

My current understanding/feeling/conceptualization of "green ray energy" is that is essentially empathy or sympathy, which is why fourth density is called the "density of understanding".  I, myself, do not feel a great difference between "compassion" and "empathy".  From my perspective, one does not occur without the other.  It is basically the polarized opposite of "judgment".  I would also consider it to be synonymous with "forgiveness", which is the manifestation that is apparent when judgement or condemnation is released.  In service to self entities, this compassion/forgiveness/empathy is reserved only for the self.  In service to others, it is applied to all selves, provided there is no blockage.

As for "blue ray energy", my current understanding of it is that it represents "objectivity".  In blue ray energy, the desire or intent is to purely see what is really there, without any subjective warping agenda. In unblocked blue ray, you see what is there, whether it is personally preferred or not.  It is, in a sense, "brutal honesty" -- a pure acceptance of how things are, not as we would wish them to be.  With an acceptance of how things are, clear communication will present itself, as there is little to no distortion being afforded perception, thus affording plain, honest speak that cuts to the heart of a given matter. In contemporary parlance, we might even say, a blue ray communication involves a "low fluff" quotient, as opposed to certain channelings that are more of a green ray nature, and involve much talk about love and light, but with very little specific or practical information offered.

Ra said it's dangerous to crystalize the blue ray with 3rd density body. Or something like that. Connecting a 3rd density body to blue-ray can cause something.

(12-11-2015, 06:04 PM)IndigoGeminiWolf Wrote: [ -> ]Ra said it's dangerous to crystalize the blue ray with 3rd density body. Or something like that. Connecting a 3rd density body to blue-ray can cause something.

If you want my personal opinion of that very veiled statement by Ra, it is because linking blue ray energy with red/orange/yellow triad of energy is looking at self, with the pure spot light of brutal honesty and objectivity, without any compassion whatsoever.  Most people are not ready to see themselves as they really are.  For the most part, we have very very warped self images of ourselves.  Most people think they are "more evolved" than they really are. These same people will usually "play themselves down" when talking about themselves in public, but secretly (perhaps even unconsciously), will still view themselves as more evolved than they really are.  Seeing the truth of ourselves, without the eyes of self forgiving compassion can drive a person to suicide or psychosis very very easily.

At times I unconditionally love myself, so seeing myself in truth can be met with compassion.

So if we see ourselves with brutal honesty, will even the smallest things seem very "evil"?

(12-11-2015, 06:16 PM)IndigoGeminiWolf Wrote: [ -> ]So if we see ourselves with brutal honesty, will even the smallest things seem very "evil"?

If you were seeing it without the cushion of self forgiveness that constitutes green ray, any of us might be completely shocked or crushed by seeming flaws in our character in either an STO or STS sense. In STO we might see that be faced with unpleasant realizations of how poorly we treated others, how lacking in love and self serving most of our behavior is for example.

In an STS case, they might be faced with realizations of not being as intelligent, powerful, beautiful, or skilled as they thought they were, or faced with the unpleasant realization of missed opportunities for evolution that were clumsily fumbled and lost due to their own incompetence and so on.

In either case, the gap between desire and reality would crush them psychologically with no compassion for self.

I hold as much trust in the Ra material and the metaphysical as Christians do their religion.

It's refreshing to hear from people like you, and take in your wisdom.

So linking blue ray to the lower 3 doesn't cause a disarrangement of the personality?

(12-11-2015, 06:26 PM)IndigoGeminiWolf Wrote: [ -> ]I hold as much trust in the Ra material and the metaphysical as Christians do their religion.

It's refreshing to hear from people like you, and take in your wisdom.

So linking blue ray to the lower 3 doesn't cause a disarrangement of the personality?

[boom, truth bomb:]

What I just described *IS* the disarrangement or disintegration of the personality.

I'm amazed that you went from asking as an OP, to now revealing this knowledge. Did you know it before, or did you learn something along the way when you recently responded?

(12-11-2015, 06:32 PM)IndigoGeminiWolf Wrote: [ -> ]I'm amazed that you went from asking as an OP, to now revealing this knowledge. Did you know it before, or did you learn something along the way when you recently responded?

I ask questions to gather new bits of knowledge from other people, not necessarily because I have no answers of my own. I'm always in the process of refining my knowledge, to see how my understanding matches or diverges from others understanding. We are all mirrors for one another.

@anagogy

I think a further point of clarification is in looking at two types of contrasts that presented itself in the Ra Material.  What I'm referencing is the so-called love/wisdom balance which came up in the context of 4th and 5th chakra activity, and then in the context of the kundalini (raising the focal point of perspective), the 4th ray was termed "universal love", and 5th ray was termed "free communication".

I think one has to be careful not to conflate the two contrasts, as the terms that Ra used were specific, and in my mind, differentiating.

The kundalini itself is not that well understood or explained in my opinion.  The kundalini as the focal point of perspective is like how far one has climbed up Mount Fuji.  If one has climbed 1/7 of the way, one has finally got over the 'survival' perspective, and is now able to look down from the mountain and see 1/7 th of the way down.  And likewise, with the raising of the kundalini to green or blue, you are looking down on your life experience (the same life experience), but with a different vantage point.  The higher up you go, the more you can see of the 'bigger picture', and how everything interconnects.  Rather than observing one stream of water, or another, from a lower perspective, higher up, you can see how they may be all running into each other, or have a common source.  When you finally get to the peak of the mountain, absolutely everything can be seen as one vista, and one whole.  The separate trees that you saw from early on in the climb are now part of a vast common ecosystem.  It all relies on each other; there really are no 'separate' pieces.  That's true and full enlightenment.

I think when people here in 3d are referencing 5th chakra activity as honesty/communication, they are really bypassing the wisdom aspect of this energy centre.  Almost as an excuse to say blunt things.

I can say pretty much without-a-doubt that individuals who have been associated with this 'blunt honesty' actually were operating from the heart centre, rather than the wisdom center.  You can see the lack of wisdom in the results that eventuated.

Great discussion. I learn so much.

(12-11-2015, 06:39 PM)Bring4th_Plenum Wrote: [ -> ]I think when people here in 3d are referencing 5th chakra activity as honesty/communication, they are really bypassing the wisdom aspect of this energy centre.  Almost as an excuse to say blunt things.

I can say pretty much without-a-doubt that individuals who have been associated with this 'blunt honesty' actually were operating from the heart centre, rather than the wisdom center.  You can see the lack of wisdom in the results that eventuated.

That is an interesting and thoughtful perspective, Plenum.  

I had a slightly different perspective (however, it is more or less the same as your own), which was that the people who were communicating "bluntly" and seemingly, from our perspective, "without tact" (just blurting out things they saw, whether it was hurtful or not) were having flashes of blue ray awareness, but were not imbuing this blue ray with any green ray compassion.  For the most part, I agree with you, that a more or less stable blue ray beingness will be much more tactful and wise than just "straight up honesty" but will also involve an objective or clear awareness of how these words will impact another soul.  Thus, an STO individual communicating blue ray information would have a pristine awareness of how its communication will affect the other being.  Though, I could certainly imagine a scenario with an STS individual who knows full well their bluntness will hurt another, and simply not care whether it does or doesn't.

I don't get sarcasm. That must be a blue ray thing.

for the sake of not re-inventing the wheel...

http://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthrea...0#pid31150

basically blue ray is intimately linked with the spirit complex and may in fact be synonymous

@anagogy

yes, I can definitely see that point of view.  There are various 'penetrations' of blue ray, and just because communications have failed, doesn't mean that the individual can't learn to develop wisdom as a result of that experience.

My own bias is towards completion and thoroughness, and so there is still some harshness towards what I perceive as 'failed experiments'.  That's more self-criticism, rather than anything else.

/ /

to perhaps anchor this discussion in the text, and try to discern what Ra was offering, there are only 2 passages where the exact phrase of "free communication" was used.

Quote:Blue ray is the ray of free communication with self and with other-self. Having accepted that an harvestable or nearly harvestable entity will be working from this green-ray springboard one may then posit that the experiences in the remainder of the incarnation will be focused upon activation of the primary blue ray of freely given communication

and

Quote:then in terms of how the experience may beget free communication

Perhaps it might be useful to try and unpack what 'freely given communication' could possibly be.

(12-11-2015, 07:19 PM)spero Wrote: [ -> ]for the sake of not re-inventing the wheel...

http://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthrea...0#pid31150

basically blue ray is intimately linked with the spirit complex and may in fact be synonymous

yes, but how then is blue-ray developed?  

(12-11-2015, 12:15 AM)anagogy Wrote: [ -> ]If you had to describe the difference between green ray and blue ray, how would you, personally, characterize the difference?

Green Ray action is empathetic and directed towards Other.  There are powerful healing currents.  Reiki is an energy flow through the heart center and is, I propose, a Green Ray energy.  Nurses have a lot of Green energy. 

Blue Ray is, in most practical circumstances, an honest expression of boundaries.  It is truth speaking, but not just any kind of truth. Just the kind of truth that is a commentary on the relationships between Self and Other, or between two Others.  Eckart Tolle practically shines Blue Ray energy.

Raw truths that hurt, I tend to see them as Yellow or Orange energy, depending upon the intent of the speaker.  Truth, but with an ulterior motive. 

Blue Ray "truths" are more matter of fact.  Parenting has a lot of Blue Ray energy in it.  Speaking truth to power is a Blue Ray energy.  Describing what *is* is a Blue Ray energy.  

The thing I aspire to is to always blend blue and green.  Truth with heart.  Carla was of this nature.  (We miss you, Carla.)

Rick

(12-11-2015, 07:26 PM)Bring4th_Plenum Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-11-2015, 07:19 PM)spero Wrote: [ -> ]for the sake of not re-inventing the wheel...

http://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthrea...0#pid31150

basically blue ray is intimately linked with the spirit complex and may in fact be synonymous

yes, but how then is blue-ray developed?  

it seems the gist of it is the ability to express/communicate selfhood without fear or reservation. it therefore requires a sense of self to be developed. this is achieved via the discipline of the personality or the metaphysical groundwork for work in blue and indigo which involves communication with physical or discarnate entities without resulting in a disintegrated personality. the below might therefore be helpful even tho it relates to the idea of channeling since its the same basis.

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Quote:[url=http://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/issues/2006/2006_0318.pdf]http://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/issues/2006/2006_0318.pdf

 The reason for this is the relatively unformed nature of any entity’s personality with regard to metaphysical work. There is a very specific discipline which must be approached, grasped, invoked and pursued before an entity is ready to begin thinking about communicating with any spirit that is perceived. The nature of the human personality is such that unless care is taken, any attempt to open communication will be difficult, faulty or even harmful to the integrated personality shell of the being attempting the opening of the communication. The need, then, before opening communication of any kind, is to go through a lengthy process wherein an entity discovers himself, defines his nature, and explores thoroughly those principles and central themes for which he is living and for which he would die. When an entity knows himself so well that he knows the ground upon which he stands, he has then become an entity in the metaphysical world of time/space. For the first time he has achieved the discipline of a personality. He has examined the self. He is aware of what he believes; what he loves; that for which he feels most passionate; that for which he lives and that for which he would gladly lose his life if it were necessary. When an entity has come to that extreme of knowledge of self, he is then ready to have conversations with other spirits. He is then able to challenge them and to say, “If you come in the name of that for which I live and that for which I will die, then I will speak with you. If you do not, then you must go away.” And that entity will perforce need to go away if he cannot meet your challenge. To be able to make that challenge, knowing the self thoroughly, is the work of years

 

Green ray is other, blue ray is self. Consider that blue ray is described as the density of rest, and green ray is a density where overexertion takes place.

"84.21 If the energies have flowed so that love is made whole, green-ray transfer has taken place. If, by the same entities’ exchange, greater ease in communication and greater sight has been experienced, the energy has been refined to the blue-ray energy center."

(12-11-2015, 07:21 PM)Bring4th_Plenum Wrote: [ -> ]Perhaps it might be useful to try and unpack what 'freely given communication' could possibly be.

It would seem that what "frees up" communication so to speak is the complete acceptance of self and complete acceptance of other self.  

"Ra: The first giving beyond green ray is the giving of acceptance or freedom, thus allowing the recipient of blue-ray energy transfer the opportunity for a feeling of being accepted, thus freeing that other-self to express itself to the giver of this ray."

In the light of this quote, it makes it apparent blue ray is not just objectivity, honesty, or clarity, but rather, pure acceptance of what is observed without judgment as well.  But then, how would an STS being utilize blue ray?  It would seem acceptance of other selves would be as much a miasma to the negative polarity as empathy with other selves is.  Perhaps this is another ray that is not poured outwards towards others, similar to green ray, and simply reserved and directed towards the self in the case of service to self polarization.

But then, I suppose Ra did say that blue ray and green ray were both missing from the STS vibratory schedules.

"Ra: The vibratory rates are not to be understood as the same in positive and negative orientations. They are to be understood as having the power to accept and work with intelligent infinity to a certain degree or intensity. Due to the fact that the primary color, shall we say, or energy blue is missing from the negatively oriented system of power, the green/blue vibratory energies are not seen in the vibratory schedules or patterns of negative fourth and fifth rates of vibration.

The positive, upon the other hand, shall we say, has the full spectrum of true-color time/space vibratory patterns and thus contains a variant vibratory pattern or schedule. Each is capable of doing fourth-density work. This is the criterion for harvest."

(12-11-2015, 10:50 PM)Icaro Wrote: [ -> ]Green ray is other, blue ray is self. Consider that blue ray is described as the density of rest, and green ray is a density where overexertion takes place.

Where is blue ray described as the density of rest?  I have not seen this description, if you could point it out, I would be much obliged.

You are intensifying in 5th density. That doesn't sound like rest.

(12-12-2015, 12:54 AM)anagogy Wrote: [ -> ]Where is blue ray described as the density of rest?  I have not seen this description, if you could point it out, I would be much obliged.

I think he means the blue ray density contains more of a contemplative orientation wherein the focus of self and other self is tipped more towards the self. Ra has said something along the lines: "The fifth density is an extremely free density" which I tend to connect with solitude. Compassion or universal love is put into motion in the self and towards other selves, but to discover wisdom is an inner journey. Of course, you may listen to a variety of teachers, but in my understanding the fruits of insight must grow deep within the self. If you solely rely on the understandings of your teachers, the universe will test you in a way that will bring4th your own personal insight; if you find yourself in a shortage of insight you will find a challenging task. Therefore, I think and believe the fifth density offers a lot of space/time for these personal contemplations, for example contemplations of the previous incarnations in where the naïve fourth density entity did not see the many orientations different actions could produce. So the fifth density is a realm of self-reflection mainly: understanding the self as the co-creator of reality. This does not negate the dialogues between teachers from higher and lower densities or those of the inner family within the fifth density experience. Rather, these aspects color the total experience just as you may put ingredients into your food to make it tastier.

EDIT: It's really cool to wonder if similar conversations are discussed among other third density planets. How would their communication flow? What of their ways of being? Did a higher density entity bring them that information? Do they also have a type of 'internet' (not a Social Memory Complex)? Did they also think the same thoughts I just thought? "Oh, hi there!"

I'd probably go at 5th density alone for awhile before joining a social memory complex. Unless I am born into one.

(12-11-2015, 01:33 AM)Bring4th_Plenum Wrote: [ -> ]I would say that blue-ray deals with structure.  And not just any structure or pattern seeking, but structure that has some fidelity to what is real.  And if one is dealing with what is real, then one is also dealing with truth at the same time.

One of the advantages of working with true structures is that they are highly predictive.  That is, you put in the inputs/parameters, and your structure/model then spits out a result that is highly likely.  That is the essence of wisdom.  Being able to know with high probability the outcome of a certain situation, without having to go through the pain of experiencing all possible successes and failures.  As wisdom increases, the Model/Structure becomes more and more refined until the need for external experience decreases to a very small amount.  

/ /

Green Ray I used to identify with the quality of Acceptance.  I also equate the positive path with the path of acceptance.  But isolating acceptance to just one energy centre is too limiting.  The positive entity uses acceptance as a way of relating to all types of experience.

Nowadays, I would use communion as best descriptor for green ray activity/seeking.  Communion is something more general and encompassing than relationships; which is more a yellow-ray bonding type of function.  Communion is about being able to be with the heart of someone, no matter where they are at on their journey, or what joys or difficulties they are experiencing.  True communion sometimes needs words; a lot of the time it doesn't.  Communion also doesn't distinguish between someone you have met for the first time, or someone who has been a family member your whole life.  You can be with them because soul essence does not really need to distinguish age or familiarity; there is a recognition of the 'sameness' between you and I, despite the many outward indicators that can measure things on a scale that seemingly lend itself to difference and separation.

Very well said. I agree.

(12-11-2015, 06:13 PM)anagogy Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-11-2015, 06:04 PM)IndigoGeminiWolf Wrote: [ -> ]Ra said it's dangerous to crystalize the blue ray with 3rd density body. Or something like that. Connecting a 3rd density body to blue-ray can cause something.

If you want my personal opinion of that very veiled statement by Ra, it is because linking blue ray energy with red/orange/yellow triad of energy is looking at self, with the pure spot light of brutal honesty and objectivity, without any compassion whatsoever.  Most people are not ready to see themselves as they really are.  For the most part, we have very very warped self images of ourselves.  Most people think they are "more evolved" than they really are.  These same people will usually "play themselves down" when talking about themselves in public, but secretly (perhaps even unconsciously), will still view themselves as more evolved than they really are.  Seeing the truth of ourselves, without the eyes of self forgiving compassion can drive a person to suicide or psychosis very very easily.

Whoooooo! Spot on.

(12-11-2015, 06:35 PM)anagogy Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-11-2015, 06:32 PM)IndigoGeminiWolf Wrote: [ -> ]I'm amazed that you went from asking as an OP, to now revealing this knowledge. Did you know it before, or did you learn something along the way when you recently responded?

I ask questions to gather new bits of knowledge from other people, not necessarily because I have no answers of my own.  I'm always in the process of refining my knowledge, to see how my understanding matches or diverges from others understanding.  We are all mirrors for one another.

When I ask questions, I sometimes already have an answer, but just need validation.

(12-12-2015, 12:54 AM)anagogy Wrote: [ -> ]Where is blue ray described as the density of rest?  I have not seen this description, if you could point it out, I would be much obliged.

I'm not sure that it's ever stated explicitly, but it's what I gather from the quotes below. It's said that fifth density is the density of light. Ra also describes the food of fifth density as light in 43.20-43.23, but in 43.24 they also say sixth density consumes light as well so I could be wrong.

Ra also mentions Carla's green ray being overly open in 12.31, which adds weight to the ideas below since fourth density is associated with service that lacks rest and patience. I don't like speculating on Carla's imbalances though..doesn't seem like my place to do so and everything is perfect.

In general, as I understand it wisdom seems to allow a person to move away from certain behavior and expectation, freeing them up for other things.

"81.3 As the instrument takes on more of the coloration of the resting density the third-density experience seems more heavy and wearisome. This was accepted by the instrument, as it desired to be of service."

"83.28 It is being aided by affirmations and also by the light which is the food of the density of resting."

"87.7 The environment of your companion is that of the rock, the cave, the place of barrenness, for this is the density of wisdom. That which is needed may be thought and received. To this entity very little is necessary upon the physical, if you will, or space/time complex of distortions."