Bring4th

There has been some empirical study on meditation, beyond the more recent material studies of biological and physiological effects. Ken Wilber and other integral theorists have devised an sort of “theory of everything” in Integral Theory that includes a sort of blueprint of states of consciousness accessible through certain types of meditation and spiritual practice. This blueprint is the result of a sort of meta-analysis of all great texts, scientific and spiritual, on the effects and purpose of meditation. To oversimplify, they essentially believe that we can progress through stages of awareness and consciousness in a sort of hierarchical fashion, both within and outside of meditation.

Though the meta-analysis is helpful, every individual obviously has infinitely unique experiences with their own spiritual practices. Meditation can mean different things to different people, and we all might experience different states of consciousness just a little bit differently. After learning about the sort of hierarchy of states of consciousness, I’ve paid more attention to my personal experiences and I think I can break down my own experiences within meditation into 4 broad stages. And while I value each experience in meditation, I do feel that the “deeper” these stages go, the higher quality the meditation is.

I classify my practice as a general “silence” meditation, perhaps similar to types of mindfulness meditation. I concentrate on my breath to attempt to clear my head. I will sometimes use a mantra, drumming sounds, or focus on all senses in my immediate environment.

First stage: Conscious Noise
In this stage, I consistently have conscious thoughts popping into my head and my awareness is constantly being pulled aware from the center I am looking for. The thoughts are in the form of words and ideas, the type that could be written down if I wanted to. I am trying to find silence and ease my mental noise, but it doesn’t come easily. I continue gently pulling my awareness back to my breath as I get distracted. This normally happens if I have a lot going on in my life or something is really pressing on my mind.

Second stage: Unconscious Noise
I still haven’t completely found a center for silence, but my awareness is not being occupied by fully formed thoughts or ideas. There is more of a feeling, like a slightly shifting current right underneath the surface of my mind. Sometimes it will breach the surface and they will be formed into words or clear ideas, but so long as my meditative state is stable, it feels more like riding along a “lazy river” rather than being distracted by thoughts. It is more pleasant and relaxing than the first stage. I tend to feel this while still having my concentration on my breath, mantra, etc. This is probably where most of my meditations fall.

Third stage: Silence
A stage which starts to evade description with words, but “silence” is probably the best description. If there is any “noise,” it is single-pointed awareness on my breath or mantra. Sometimes, it will seem as though I reached this state upon an exhale of a breath and I will come out of it feeling as though I had stopped breathing completely. The emotional and unconscious movement within is slowed to nearly a full stop and there is a sense of semi-dissolution of self. My concept of self is vague and subtle. I lose the feelings and sensations of my senses as a reference point for reality and feel more as though I am part of the universe around me rather than within the universe. I’d say I can reach this state in about 10% of my meditation.

Fourth stage: Expansion or Transcendence
This is a stage where the “self” is left behind. It’s almost like a “rising above” (thus “transcendence”) or a “growing out” (“expansion”) of my physical body which is meditating. I have only really experienced this a handful of times, each time while using a mantra. There is a fullness, and complete awareness and acceptance. No real physical reference or experience, except an awareness of the mantra continuing within the head of my “self.” It is not a self with which I identify, but rather, simply an awareness that this mantra is continuing within my awareness, automatically. I liken it to a spinning top – I consciously start the mantra and continue it, and it gains a “momentum” of its own. My awareness rises aware from this mantra that is now automatically “spinning” in my mind and I am no limited in any way to the self which started the mantra. There is a sort of nothingness/fullness, and a complete and utter acceptance of that, a sort of innate knowledge that all experience is supplementary to this.


It’s hard to put these into words, and I’ve never tried describing my personal experiences. I think it would be neat if others have recognized various levels or stages within their meditations that are significant to them in some personal way.

What do you experience when you meditate?

I experience fading into timelessness, whether lying down or sitting, which is the main reason I do shorts
meditations throughout the whole day instead of lenghty ones. Used to be good at staying aware in my mind for long periods but now I simply fall away quickly.

The exception would be in public transports where I switch between aware and unaware constantly instead of totally losing grip. I guess being on something I can feel moving keeps me somewhat there mentally.

Other than that, seems more like stage 2 and stage 3. I don't remember dealing with stage 1 much except in very particular occasions.

Stage 4 seems somewhat veiled because even in a strong willed mental state, when I feel at the point of reaching a deeper state, my mind connection seems to brutally cut off.

I have to use binaural beats to reach any noticable level of depth.

What mantras do you use, Austin?

(01-12-2016, 07:49 PM)IndigoGeminiWolf Wrote: [ -> ]I have to use binaural beats to reach any noticable level of depth.

I've used some binaural tones in the past with some great effect. I have heard many mixed experiences, but they were very powerful for me. A bit too powerful, as I think the combination of the "pink noise" mixed with the actual binaural tones would really put me into more of a trance than meditation, where I would simply come out of the meditation without any sort of significant experience. It's almost like I had fallen asleep without actually sleeping, with no awareness.

(01-12-2016, 10:02 PM)Stranger Wrote: [ -> ]What mantras do you use, Austin?

Mantra may be a bit of a loose term, as I don't really have any consistent mantras. Typically I use them after a period of contemplation, where I will find inspiration in a particular thought, idea, or phrase. They can vary in length. The first time I experienced my fourth stage was when I was just sitting on a meditation pillow and contemplating the idea of thoughts and whether we are the thinker or just the receiver of thoughts. And so a phrase started turning in my head, "Am I the thinker, or am I the receiver of thoughts?" This sort of naturally started repeating itself over and over, and eventually my awareness left the mind through which the thought was cycling.

It's often not so specific, and sometimes more heart centered. "Open the heart," "feel peace," etc. It will always be an inspiration in the moment rather than something determined beforehand.

I go by Depth.

Initially I stuck with Wavelength/Frequency, and it was Beta > Alpha > Theta

Now I go by sensation of reality.

Embezzled Into Reality is the default, when I close my eyes and breath I feel my entrenchment of Reality.
As I focus, and I must do it continually without stopping, I silence my mind or pay attention to my otherwise ADD/OCD tendecies of thought.
Loosening/Grounding of Reality, is the next step for me that occurs with continued focus and attention/Awareness, my meditations take time but they always go somewhere.

Beyond Grounding naturally I must focus constantly to maintain the next level of Depth, which I simply call Sitting With Myself and All Myself, feeling myself in the air, space, ground, Earth, and not letting thoughts distort these sensations more than my brain already does at its most quiet states I can Consciously Reach...

Past this I reach rarely where I'll begin hearing things that come in clear like a broadcast through a system, or visions start formulating, my imagination becomes my being in thought.  Not sure if that makes sense but I like to think I'm just 'open' enough to communicate directly with externally or ex-internally or internally.

Either way, good question...I never really noticed the movement itself from conscious placement to placement.

It's interesting that your use of a mantra is how you achieved that level of transcendence. I was recently looking into transcendental meditation and the use of a mantra is one of its principles. The philosophy behind transcendental meditation makes sense..there is no fighting or controlling the mind, you just gently repeat a mantra and let the mind go where it wants to go, noting when the mantra has faded and gently bring it back. The idea being that by letting the mind do what it wants to (for the most part) on its path of happiness, this will begin to cause a resonance into greater realms of bliss. Explained better by this dude.

Didn't Jim practice transcendental meditation? I'm sure trained practitioners can offer useful insights, but I'd have a hard time paying for the classes. From what I gather, Jim's transcendental experiences seem to be what Ra draws from (at least a good portion of it) when referring to experiences of intelligent infinity. He seems to have some pretty wild experiences. I bet he has a lot of guidance to offer on this subject.

(01-12-2016, 06:56 PM)Bring4th_Austin Wrote: [ -> ]What do you experience when you meditate?

I think the stages you described largely apply to my own experience as well.

The hardest stage for me to get past is the initial first stage of conscious noise.  I feel like I have some serious ADHD sometimes.  I find this stage a LOT easier to get past after doing some kind of physical activity, preferably cardiovascular exercise.  After the ol' physical is slightly tuckered out, I find it very easy to go within.

After this point, my whole focus is on becoming "the witness".  I just watch the darkness behind my eyes, and try to have no expectations and simply observe the dark silence of my mind.  Initially my mind is not silent and there are various thoughts sloshing back and forth that become more apparent as the spotlight of my consciousness is cranked up to see what I can see, whatever that may be.  I become much more aware of "slightly irritating vibrations".  Subtle currents of thought that I wouldn't have thought twice about in my normal waking state become much more apparent in this deeper state of concentration.  Basically, I try to gently turn my attention away from these subtle currents of disharmony that I didn't realize I was vibrating.  Much like walking through a crowd of people, I don't have to fight each person, I simply gradually make my way away from the crowd until I am alone.

If I was really tired when I began, I might lose my concentration and just fall asleep at this point.  This can even happen from a sitting position, remarkably.  It takes a lot of practice before you can enter deeper levels of awareness and not drift off into a dream state (which is basically just an uncontrolled trance state).  But if I'm successful in maintaining my witness status, I soon lose awareness of my bodily senses.  Just before this occurs I will sometimes hear my body start snoring, which is slightly funny.

At this point if I still have a handle on my consciousness (which is a mean feat) my perception is one of floating in blackness.  There is a sense of well being and contentment which might be akin to your description of transcendance.  It is very easy to visualize from this state and I'm in very deep contact with my subconscious.  It feels like a powerhouse of creative potential energy just waiting to be channeled into something.  If I'm working on manifesting something in my personal life, this would be where I would state my affirmations, or do my visualizations.  Or if I'm seeking some type of intuitive information this is where I would 'reach' for it (or more like, 'allow' it to come to me).  If I'm just meditating to meditate to just 'find my center' so to speak then I just float in the blackness for a time (though my perception of time becomes seriously skewed).  Eventually I do a sort of hypnosis count up from 1 to 10 feeling myself become more and more conscious with each count, and then watch my eyes open (I say 'watch' because if I was in a deep state it literally feels like it happens on its own).

The amount of time that passes is variable.  I've come out of a 2 hour meditation session before completely floored because I thought only 20 minutes had passed.  I don't set timers normally.  It's too jarring.    

That's so cool that you have tried to analyze different stages of meditation, Austin! I never thought of it. At least not conscously. But now that you've mentioned it - yes, there are indeed different stages in meditation.

Nr 1 is difficult to pass through when there is a lot going on in life, or when I'm too tired/hungry or similar. Usually I realize that pretty quickly when trying to meditate and give up shortly after. There is no point of trying harder when there is too much noise.

Nr 2 can be very useful, because it happens sometimes that when I reach this stage, I get either really awesome ideas or angles of problems in my life, which I haven't had before, or I remember something very important which I have completely forgot during waking life. It is of course impossible to continue meditating after receiving those ideas or solutions to problems in life, or just remembering something important which you forgot. But that's ok! I usually instantly jump out of the meditation and get to whatever it was I received in that meditation.

Nr 3 - Silence... Ah, that's when Creator speaks. It's so, so awesome... I feel like the energy is starting to flow through me, and I become lighter and lighter, both in the sense of weight and in the sense of light. There comes feelings of gratitude and connection to the Creator.

Then nr 4 - I'm not sure what or how exactly you mean... Transcendence or expansion... For me it flows into the silence stage, but perhaps there are different stages between just silence and then transcendence/expansion? Maybe silence is when your mind is quiet but you have not yet made the contact with the Creator? When you just sit silently outside the door and waiting for It. And then when the door opens and you start to mesh with the Creator, that is another stage? I'll have to think about it next time I meditate.

I'm also wondering about stages where you can get healing and then when you do balancing exercises? When do these stages come in the medtational process?

For instance, I have noticed that when you are meshing with the Creator's energy and become lighter and lighter, after a while you feel so clean and pure and light, that there occurs a question in your mind which goes something like - the vibrations of light of you and the Creator now match, would you like to replace your vibration with the lighter one? It's like an automatic question, like the ones you get on your computer sometimes. Have you ever experienced that? But sometimes also, when for instance in pain or other physical discomfort, one can try to consciously work towards healing of the self. Have you tried that? And when working towards it, it happens before one has made connection to the Creator through silence.

And then the balancing exercises... They are like opening one door - say of positive vibration first, and then you feel all this energy just rushing through you like a wild river. It is so awesome! I have learned this recently, and it was such a relieving experience! It feels like you get tons lighter and then also more free than before. It's like being able to breathe again. But then you feel how the opposite door opens, the so called negative one. And it's not as easy to let that energy to rush through those channels. But I'm learning.

What stages of meditation are these two above do you think?

This is a fascinating conversation.

Do any of you have any thoughts on the stage at which the "trickling into the roots of mind" that Ra talks about with respect to the value of meditation occurs?

For me personally, I have the conscious mental noise in the mind as the first stage. The second stage the mind starts to quiet down a lot and i see some subconscious images/mental chatter. The third stage is silence. I have experienced what i could call my 4th stage of meditation which is the perception of the persona or ego lessening or temporary dissolving with a sense of expansive space, with a feeling of great joy. The 4th stage is very rare for me, i would say i normally reach the second or third stage of my way of looking at mediation.

It seems that my view is some what similar to your own Austin. I guess that would be fairly understandable since we are all conscious beings with basically the same bodies and minds, once you look at them through the basic functions.

My practice is a very simple one i was taught at a Buddhist monastery it follows a 7 step processes that basically boils down being mindful of the breath as it goes in and out of the tip of the nose. I make an effort to bring the meditative awareness into daily life as well. I find it works fairly well , rather than getting caught in a cycle of thesis/antithesis balancing, the act of simply accepting the moment and things as they happen and letting them go, seems more effective at least for me on a personal level.

I'm not consistent with meditation so I don't go into deep states other than extreme relaxation, but I certainly feel that it enables connections to be made in day to day seeking. When exactly the connection with the roots of the mind is happening I'm not sure, but I've found that those connections are realized outside of meditation personally.

A handful of times I've experienced an influx of energy between the eyes and the blackness turns white, accompanied by the sensation that boundaries are dissolving and that I'm moving towards some higher plane. It's always surprising and jolts me out of that state.

Well done, Austin.  This is an important topic, one that we have neglected, and I think we out to pursue it in more depth at the next Homecoming.

It is important to know when to seize the moment, to jump into serious meditation.  You have been discussing the transition from everyday waking experience into deliberate, planned, and (often) somewhat plodding meditation.  But we may take advantage of better opportunities that present themselves to us.

One of these instances is at the transition between waking and sleeping, when you find it difficult to move your body, even though you are awake, and when that loud roaring sound comes into your ears.  At this point, you may either:
1) Fall asleep;
2) Become excited, and wake up;
3) Slip into a state of "sleep paralysis", with all that that accords;
or 4) Seize the moment.  

When I have been able to gain clarity and purpose of mind in this state (and I do not mean to imply that this is easily obtained), I have been able to project my astral body.  In my case, I leave the body feet-first.  I have heard others describe the experience as feeling as if one is "rolled up like a tube of tootpaste", and that's a good analogy for what I have experienced.  Accustomed as we are to the limitations of a rigid skeleton, it is an odd feeling indeed, to feel your legs roll up as if they were made of rubber.  Outside the limitations of the carnal body, one is capable of magnificent feats.

The other instance of note, even more important, is to pursue the opportunity to meditate during lucid dreaming.  Our ultimate goal should be to meditate together during dream-time.  I find it frustrating, being unable to communicate the sense of urgency necessary to prod all of you into pursuing this with the requisite vigor.  If we can manage this, our rate of progress will grow exponentially.

I feel like I'm always in a deep meditative state...unless I'm sleeping.

After much effort, it finally became possible for me to silence my mind whenever I wanted & for however long. After I accomplished that much sought-after skill I quit wanting to implement it...ever. I began to find existing in silence boring compared to contemplative meditation. I like my mind & I could happily do nothing but observe the things that surface in it 24/7. I don't feel like I'm on a deeper level with the thoughts gone - just a different one.

I do enjoy controlling my thoughts, though. If I'm not in the mood for it, I won't let myself think of things that make me feel any kind of discomfort. I often try to think of things like infinity, how awesome it is to have awareness in the now, how incredible it would be if it's true that everything is one infinite/powerful creator, how phenomenal it would be if every thought & every little thing is permanently logged somehow, & things like that.

If not in the mood for deep thoughts I'll think of happy things, someone I love, or just w/e pleasant thing that "randomly" pops up. Deep thoughts don't make me feel on a deeper level either - just a different one.

(01-14-2016, 11:58 AM)jeremy6d Wrote: [ -> ]Do any of you have any thoughts on the stage at which the "trickling into the roots of mind" that Ra talks about with respect to the value of meditation occurs?

Can you quote that session where Ra brings it up?

(01-14-2016, 02:03 PM)Matt1 Wrote: [ -> ]i was taught at a Buddhist monastery it follows a 7 step processes that basically boils down being mindful of the breath as it goes in and out of the tip of the nose.

Would you mind to post about this 7 step processes that you have learned at that Buddhist monastery? It would be interesting to hear, and I think it belongs in this thread too.

(01-15-2016, 02:57 AM)isis Wrote: [ -> ]I feel like I'm always in a deep meditative state...unless I'm sleeping.

After much effort, it finally became possible for me to silence my mind whenever I wanted & for however long.

Your experiences that you described sound awesome, isis!

Only once I got into that state while doing the usual 3D "business" where I could silence my mind by will, and it lasted only a short period of time. I didn't "work" for it, so it was only one of those "random" mystical experiences. But while it lasted, I did really feel different, more in touch with the divine, and magic all around me.

From the way I see it, the most interesting states of mind and unveiling of it were achieved by working with my mind while on psychdelics.

Then from how I perceive things, to achieve states reached with psychedelics one needs to meditate for years and years on a daily basis (everyone being unique though). Psychedelics act as a temporary window on what can be achieved without.

(01-14-2016, 11:29 PM)Eddie Wrote: [ -> ]The other instance of note, even more important, is to pursue the opportunity to meditate during lucid dreaming.  Our ultimate goal should be to meditate together during dream-time.  I find it frustrating, being unable to communicate the sense of urgency necessary to prod all of you into pursuing this with the requisite vigor.  If we can manage this, our rate of progress will grow exponentially.

Why do you feel this should be our goal, Eddie? You must have some personal experience regarding this?

(01-15-2016, 04:04 AM)Ankh Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-14-2016, 11:58 AM)jeremy6d Wrote: [ -> ]Do any of you have any thoughts on the stage at which the "trickling into the roots of mind" that Ra talks about with respect to the value of meditation occurs?

Can you quote that session where Ra brings it up?

Yes and gladly, this is 10.14, the description of the famous four exercises Ra suggests, and then the following:

Quote:The foundation or prerequisite of these exercises is a predilection towards what may be called meditation, contemplation, or prayer. With this attitude, these exercises can be processed. Without it, the data will not sink down into the roots of the tree of mind, thus enabling and ennobling the body and touching the spirit.

So the question I'm asking is: does anybody have any thoughts on how this "sinking down into the roots of the tree of mind" maps to the levels of meditation being discussed?

(01-19-2016, 12:15 PM)jeremy6d Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-15-2016, 04:04 AM)Ankh Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-14-2016, 11:58 AM)jeremy6d Wrote: [ -> ]Do any of you have any thoughts on the stage at which the "trickling into the roots of mind" that Ra talks about with respect to the value of meditation occurs?

Can you quote that session where Ra brings it up?

Yes and gladly, this is 10.14, the description of the famous four exercises Ra suggests, and then the following:

Quote:The foundation or prerequisite of these exercises is a predilection towards what may be called meditation, contemplation, or prayer. With this attitude, these exercises can be processed. Without it, the data will not sink down into the roots of the tree of mind, thus enabling and ennobling the body and touching the spirit.

So the question I'm asking is: does anybody have any thoughts on how this "sinking down into the roots of the tree of mind" maps to the levels of meditation being discussed?

I don't know what Austin thinks, but personally I would imagine that it would be level 4 on his levels of meditation; when silence is obtained, instead of meshing with the Creator, that level which he named as transcendence/explanding, one would instead focus on those exercises Ra gave in 10.14. But I don't know, maybe silence is not necessary, and one can jump right into contemplating those exercises. Ra mentioned only briefly about it:

49.8 - Contemplation or the consideration in a meditative state of an inspiring image or text is extremely useful also among your peoples...

But I am wondering whether holding these thoughts in mind as visualization, would be what Ra called "raising the planetary vibration":

"The type of meditation which may be called visualization has as its goal not that which is contained in the meditation itself. Visualization is the tool of the adept. Those who learn to hold visual images in mind are developing an inner concentrative power that can transcend boredom and discomfort. When this ability has become crystallized in an adept the adept may then do polarizing in consciousness without external action which can affect the planetary consciousness. This is the reason for existence of the so-called White Magician. Only those wishing to pursue the conscious raising of planetary vibration will find visualization to be a particularly satisfying type of meditation."

Anyways, have you tried to contemplate or meditate on these exercises, Jeremy?

(01-20-2016, 11:37 AM)Ankh Wrote: [ -> ]Anyways, have you tried to contemplate or meditate on these exercises, Jeremy?

Yes, but I don't think my experiences doing so are very useful to answering the question I posed.  This "sinking into roots of mind" those of Ra speak of strike me as a background process that I am necessarily unable to observe.  It implies a transduction of information from the manifest experience to the unmanifest intelligence, as I conceive of it, so that would be imperceptible to my waking consciousness.  

Admittedly, I did not have high hopes for a definitive answer here; I just wanted to be open to different ways of thinking this problem and possible solutions arising from that.  Your suggestion of the power of visualization is worth reflecting on.

when i get to fourth stage i end up doing and manifesting some crazy s*** and just start dancing, like the native americans, they were stamping the energy into the earth. i'll burn sage, and just keep dancing in a circle in this vague trance.

i don't know why just felt right. when you let spirit move you, it moves you and it is so wonderful.

the right teacher comes for the right calling is what i say.

the more i meditate the more i understand that the universe is in a state of becoming, and we are all in the right place and right time to do the necessary work of adepts. interesting. and impossible to grasp or fathom in our individual mindsets and yet i know it to be truth.

(01-13-2016, 09:37 PM)Ankh Wrote: [ -> ]Then nr 4 - I'm not sure what or how exactly you mean... Transcendence or expansion... For me it flows into the silence stage, but perhaps there are different stages between just silence and then transcendence/expansion? Maybe silence is when your mind is quiet but you have not yet made the contact with the Creator? When you just sit silently outside the door and waiting for It. And then when the door opens and you start to mesh with the Creator, that is another stage? I'll have to think about it next time I meditate.

It's hard to put into words, so don't think too hard about it, because my words have probably failed to describe it. The difference between this state and silence, for me, is that in silence, there is still a slight sense of "self." There is a deeply profound and relaxing sense of the "self" being an illusion but I still realize it is the "self" that is experiencing the silence. Where in silence I realize that I am part of the universe around me, in stage 4 I am the universe around me.

Classifying any of this as "contact with the Creator" is difficult for me. I'm really not sure at which point I make that contact, or if I ever make that contact at all. It is profound and feels like a significant thing, and I have no doubt that in some sense, I am experiencing contact with the Creator. But I have always felt that real skilled meditators are probably privy to some sort of experience or contact that I have yet to experience, or probably won't experience. Like an adept's meditation or something like that.

Quote:I'm also wondering about stages where you can get healing and then when you do balancing exercises? When do these stages come in the medtational process?

For instance, I have noticed that when you are meshing with the Creator's energy and become lighter and lighter, after a while you feel so clean and pure and light, that there occurs a question in your mind which goes something like - the vibrations of light of you and the Creator now match, would you like to replace your vibration with the lighter one? It's like an automatic question, like the ones you get on your computer sometimes. Have you ever experienced that? But sometimes also, when for instance in pain or other physical discomfort, one can try to consciously work towards healing of the self. Have you tried that? And when working towards it, it happens before one has made connection to the Creator through silence.

I don't know if any of this will make sense, because we might consider different things to be "healing," and I am already struggling to find words to really describe this stuff. But it's fun to talk about, so I'll try!

I think for me healing kind of happens at all stages after the first, in somewhat different ways. It is hard to put into the grammar and concepts of the Law of One though.

In stage 2, I feel like there are emotional energies that have some momentum, like they're kind of running around all excited right beneath the surface of my mind. As I enter stage 2, they begin to slow down and start to move in more balanced ways, like they start dancing a slow dance rather than run around. This feels like healing because I feel like if I did not meditate and allow these energies to calm down, they would have continued to run around and exhaust me, doing some damage and causing more imbalance.

In stage 3, the healing feels more like a sense of bridging gaps, or connecting things that are disconnected. Like, the energies that were once running around, then were slowed down and calmed, are now standing nearly still, and because they are still, they are able to connect to each other in very significant ways. They are no longer different things moving around in my mind, they become closely connected so that they are able to exist more in unison, as a complete thing. This feels healing to me in the sense that things which were once fragmented no longer are, and I become stronger and more stable because of it.

I'm not sure if I can classify the healing in stage 4, or if there even is healing really. Like I said, I haven't experienced this many times, but each time I have experienced it, my awareness was sort of permanently expanded, to where I was able to eventually identify or empathize with more than before. This is after the fact, so I don't know what happened during the meditation to cause this, but it is perhaps healing because it helps to build bridges with things "outside" of me, where there was once a sense of separation.

I also sometimes do specific healing meditations if I am physically ill. This includes asking my guidance to help guide my meditation and help me to do or visualize whatever is best for receiving healing, and opening myself to the healing process. Sometimes it is just holding the concept of being open and accepting of the disharmony I feel in my body. On rare occasions, I experience a type of "vision" or "dream" where I am literally being healed by beings.

One of the most profound visions I've had was when I had a high fever, possibly from the flu, and I was laying in bed, struggling to rest, and praying for healing. I slipped into a semi-sleep dream-state where I perceived myself as a body of energy, and I was "lying down" among many, many other energy bodies, all of us sick in some way. There were very tall beings moving among us, not humanoid at all. They looked almost like blimps with "legs" hanging off of them. As they moved around, they were tending to our energy, helping us to heal. When I woke up, my fever broke and I felt much better, and healed completely within a couple of days.

Maybe it was real in some way, or maybe it was more like a dream that helped me accept healing in some way.

Anyways, whenever I do a healing meditation, I always do this with the passage in mind: "Healing occurs when a mind/body/spirit complex realizes, deep within itself, the Law of One; that is, that there is no disharmony, no imperfection; that all is complete and whole and perfect." But I always wonder, how can I realize something deep within myself? It's hard for me to understand which parts of myself are not accepting and realizing this.

Quote:And then the balancing exercises... They are like opening one door - say of positive vibration first, and then you feel all this energy just rushing through you like a wild river. It is so awesome! I have learned this recently, and it was such a relieving experience! It feels like you get tons lighter and then also more free than before. It's like being able to breathe again. But then you feel how the opposite door opens, the so called negative one. And it's not as easy to let that energy to rush through those channels. But I'm learning.

I do the balancing exercises separately from my silent meditation, but I would say they are a part of it. Ra says "the prerequisite of mental work is the ability to retain silence of self at a steady state when required by the self. The mind must be opened like a door. The key is silence." I think that the balancing exercise is, in a sense, a type of mental work that Ra is talking about here, and so it's much easier done when you are able to silence the mind. I think my ability to reach a state of silence makes it possible for me to do this, because I can concentrate on the balancing exercise without conscious thoughts coming and interrupting me. So maybe this balancing exercise would take place between 2 and 3, because instead of needing to hold a truly silent state, I have something interesting and evocative to concentrate on, that is the emotions to balance, and then allow my experience to flow from that concentration. I think that what I experience is similar to you but not as intense.

(01-14-2016, 11:29 PM)Eddie Wrote: [ -> ]The other instance of note, even more important, is to pursue the opportunity to meditate during lucid dreaming.  Our ultimate goal should be to meditate together during dream-time.  I find it frustrating, being unable to communicate the sense of urgency necessary to prod all of you into pursuing this with the requisite vigor.  If we can manage this, our rate of progress will grow exponentially.

Could you talk more about this idea? Unfortunately, whenever I lucid dream, most of the time I will wake up moments after realizing I am dreaming. When this isn't the case, "normal" Austin usually isn't present. It is like a "lower" version of me that becomes aware of the dream state, and I never do what "normal" Austin wants to do when I lucid dream. I entertain myself with distractions, rather than attempt to meditate or fly. I've always wanted to fly in a lucid dream, but "lower" Austin never thinks of it!

(01-19-2016, 12:15 PM)jeremy6d Wrote: [ -> ]

Quote:The foundation or prerequisite of these exercises is a predilection towards what may be called meditation, contemplation, or prayer. With this attitude, these exercises can be processed. Without it, the data will not sink down into the roots of the tree of mind, thus enabling and ennobling the body and touching the spirit.

So the question I'm asking is: does anybody have any thoughts on how this "sinking down into the roots of the tree of mind" maps to the levels of meditation being discussed?

I'm betting we all have some different conceptions of what exactly is meant by "sinking down into the roots of the tree of mind." In my mind, the roots of the tree of mind would be that which is beneath my conscious awareness. The "streams" of emotion, the movement I feel in stage 2 and then feel them quieted in stage 3, would be a hint of this which is within this unconscious portion of my mind, I think. When I described above how these things are calmed and then "connected" or "healed," I think perhaps that is how these exercises could then sink into the roots of the mind. With these exercises, I'm consciously recognizing unity in different perspectives, attempting to realize in my conscious mind all of these truths. I consciously attempt to find love when there is it isn't apparent, such as when I experience disharmony. I see others and consciously attempt to realize they are the creator, when I see myself, or the world around me - all of these things are done consciously.

But they all have correlations to my unconscious mind. There is an unconscious reason why something was experienced disharmoniously. I hold unconscious conceptions of myself. There are unconscious correlations to other-selves, or aspects of them that exist within me, unrealized, or simply in potential. Same with the world around me. So then allowing my mind to calm itself to the point of stillness, I think these conscious attempts are translated to those unconscious aspects of that which was acted on consciously. In a way, it allows my unconscious mind to then reflect these conscious attempts on their own, simply by having the space (within silence) to do so. Then my unconscious mind and conscious mind are both transformed, unified, and further transformation is possible. I have a feeling that if these things were acted on in the conscious mind but then didn't have the opportunity within meditation to be reflected unconsciously, progress would be stunted somewhat, as the conscious mind will necessarily offer a sort of reflection of the unconscious mind.


All my own opinion and experiences, anyways. I'm sure there are others with varying perspectives on how it works. But as long as it works!

(01-21-2016, 06:05 PM)Bring4th_Austin Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-14-2016, 11:29 PM)Eddie Wrote: [ -> ]The other instance of note, even more important, is to pursue the opportunity to meditate during lucid dreaming.  Our ultimate goal should be to meditate together during dream-time.  I find it frustrating, being unable to communicate the sense of urgency necessary to prod all of you into pursuing this with the requisite vigor.  If we can manage this, our rate of progress will grow exponentially.

Could you talk more about this idea? Unfortunately, whenever I lucid dream, most of the time I will wake up moments after realizing I am dreaming. When this isn't the case, "normal" Austin usually isn't present. It is like a "lower" version of me that becomes aware of the dream state, and I never do what "normal" Austin wants to do when I lucid dream. I entertain myself with distractions, rather than attempt to meditate or fly. I've always wanted to fly in a lucid dream, but "lower" Austin never thinks of it!

Austin, this is the Herculean task of mankind.

Silencing the internal dialogue is the key to having the presence of mind to remember to meditate during dreaming.  Achieving this inner silence is difficult, but I have had the best success using the method I have discussed with all of you at Homecoming several times. 

By the way, meditating together during dream-time is (or was, I don't know if it's still done) a long-standing practice of Tibetan Lamaistic Bhuddists and some of the Australian aborigines, and I have heard that it was done by various Amerindians. 

My ability to meditate during dreaming has slipped considerably from what it once was, and my New Year's resolution is to rededicate myself to the attempt.  I long for those who will join me.

Work on silencing the Inner Dialogue.  Also, at many times, ask yourself, "Am I awake, or am I asleep, and dreaming?"

I've revived this thread in order to ask a question.

When I meditate I have first to face the noise of my thinking mind which seems to be keen on increasing its activity when I decide to meditate. It is almost like a reflex.
I can focus well on given tasks but as soon I decide I want to meditate my mind decides she wants to think.

Anyhow this is normal.

Once I pass this mind proactiveness of thinking I enter for a short time a phase of observing mind, where I observe my body and focus on observing my body, after which I start seeing very clear images, like short movies in front of my closed-eyes. The images are so real that sometimes I pressure my eyelids to prove myself my eyes are closed. The video images are very coherent contemporary scenes and I see people I've never met doing normal stuff. Siting in chairs, moving across some rooms somewhere, talking normally to each other. I can even hear their dialog and voices. If I try to focus my attention on what they do and what they say the films are usually disappearing and my thinking mind reenters the scene. It is frustrating because it seems I see very coherent sequences and dialog but when I do come back I cannot recollect anything but an occasional unknown face.

The type of visions are different from the ones we construct with our minds and seem to form somehow on the back of our minds a bit up inside our heads. These images are in front of my eyes and seem to be independent of my mind.

Can someone explain this type of visions which seem to be moving my mind from the thinking phase to this vision phase making my meditation impossible? Is this some kind of dream which I can't remember even if I have it while awake?

(07-13-2021, 11:20 AM)Loki Wrote: [ -> ]Can someone explain this type of visions which seem to be moving my mind from the thinking phase to this vision phase making my meditation impossible? Is this some kind of dream which I remember even if I have it while awake?

 
Hi there.  Well, I can't say anything conclusive about this particular phenomenon, but it fits in well a variety other sidetracks the mind can use to draw your attention.  The key factor, I would say, is that if when it's over you simply feel that you've had some unusual mental exercise rather feeling that deeper areas of consciousness were involved.  If that's how it feels, it's likely that's what it was, another mental exercise.
 
The basic point of meditation, of course, is to experience finer levels of self awareness.  So, you might think about ways to leverage what you have towards something better.  For example, you might try opening your heart as much as you to your projected characters and see where that leads.  Another approach would be not worry about explaining anything, but patiently waiting for the next level awareness to find you sitting in this animated antechamber.
 
Best of luck!
 

Thank you for your replay. For the time being I insist with meditation mostly curious about what will happen if anything. Initially I believed will and persistence are to improve my meditation. Now I released all expectations.

(07-13-2021, 11:20 AM)Loki Wrote: [ -> ]I've revived this thread in order to ask a question.

When I meditate I have first to face the noise of my thinking mind which seems to be keen on increasing its activity when I decide to meditate. It is almost like a reflex.
I can focus well on given tasks but as soon I decide I want to meditate my mind decides she wants to think.

Anyhow this is normal.

Once I pass this mind proactiveness of thinking I enter for a short time a phase of observing mind, where I observe my body and focus on observing my body, after which I start seeing very clear images, like short movies in front of my closed-eyes. The images are so real that sometimes I pressure my eyelids to prove myself my eyes are closed. The video images are very coherent contemporary scenes and I see people I've never met doing normal stuff. Siting in chairs, moving across some rooms somewhere, talking normally to each other. I can even hear their dialog and voices. If I try to focus my attention on what they do and what they say the films are usually disappearing and my thinking mind reenters the scene. It is frustrating because it seems I see very coherent sequences and dialog but when I do come back I cannot recollect anything but an occasional unknown face.

The type of visions are different from the ones we construct with our minds and seem to form somehow on the back of our minds a bit up inside our heads. These images are in front of my eyes and seem to be independent of my mind.  

Can someone explain this type of visions which seem to be moving my mind from the thinking phase to this vision phase making my meditation impossible? Is this some kind of dream which I can't remember even if I have it while awake?

There are two basic types of meditation. The emptying of the mind to hear the creator, and to visualize a symbol to build the faculties of concentration and will. One of the stumbling blocks for people is the term visualize. Many people can only "see" something in their mind without having an actual visual experience, and some people cannot visualize on any level at all. Being able to actually see scenes in meditation is a good thing IMO. As you would likely do well with the second type of meditation.

The only way you will discover what the phenomena you are experiencing is thru repeated experience. If you accept the experience and do not attach any expectations to it, thru time and repetition you should discover for yourself the significance of it.

(07-14-2021, 06:52 AM)Loki Wrote: [ -> ]Thank you for your replay. For the time being I insist with meditation mostly curious about what will happen if anything. Initially I believed will and persistence are to improve my meditation. Now I released all expectations.

 
Yes, and this will lead to the next phase and the next.  You'll likely find yourself feeling inclined one way now, another way later, in terms of how train your focus.  I believe it's quite natural to meander this way as a way of building your skills in preparation for the more serious work which lies ahead of you--whatever that may be.
  

(07-13-2021, 11:20 AM)Loki Wrote: [ -> ]Can someone explain this type of visions which seem to be moving my mind from the thinking phase to this vision phase making my meditation impossible? Is this some kind of dream which I can't remember even if I have it while awake?

In my experience, both personal and from accounts from other-selves, the exact nature of such experiences is almost impossible for an outside party to assess, aside from some insight from a legitimate psychic or shaman. But even then the nature of the situation is only as useful as how you relate to it, which I do think is the key with these types of experiences. No matter what it is - some type of clairvoyance, tapping into the collective unconscious, tapping into your personal unconscious, a waking dream, etc. - these types of experiences are given to us as catalyst. And in my experience, catalyst that comes from explorations inward, such as meditation, is not necessarily intended to reveal its meaning directly, but rather through the subtle interaction between your guided consciousness and this inner mystery that has been presented to you. The limitations present within the experience, such as your inability to focus enough to retain the specifics of the scene, are simply another facet of the catalyst with their own impressions to make.

Sometimes the purpose of such catalyst isn't necessarily intended to be fully grasped from a rational standpoint. In considering gifts like you are describing, I often think about Ra's description of how the resources of the mind might be used: "Many use the trunk and roots of mind as if that portion of mind were a badly used, prostituted entity. Then this entity gains from this great storehouse that which is rough, prostituted, and without great virtue. Those who turn to the deep mind seeing it in the guise of the maiden go forth to court it. The courtship has nothing of plunder in its semblance and may be protracted, yet the treasure gained by such careful courtship is great. The right-hand and left-hand transformations of the mind may be seen to differ by the attitude of the conscious mind towards its own resources as well as the resources of other-selves."

Taking the perspective of courtship, such an experience is a microcosmic depiction of our overall relationship between conscious and unconscious minds. My conscious awareness that wields the will is the suitor, and the mysterious experience is the object of the suitor's attention. When I find myself unable to relate to a mysterious internal experience in a practical way, I find the appropriate courtship of that experience is simply to observe with patience, allowing it to exist without interruption or evaluation. Eventually the familiarity grows, and a path to relationship is revealed. Sometimes I find that the mystery just wanted to be witnessed, and it falls away. If I do explore different ways of relating to such a mystery, something like Sacred Fool's suggestion seems to be an appropriate courtship - gentle, coming from the heart, speaking to the love and desire that has brought us to this point to begin with. The fact that your experiences seem to continually be outside of your conscious grasp seems to me to speak to the nature of this courtship. To extend Ra's analogy, perhaps she is not ready for a relationship, and simply wants to be seen for what she is right now. It's probably obvious that patience is the greatest virtue I have found in these types of explorations.

(07-14-2021, 08:15 AM)Dtris Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-13-2021, 11:20 AM)Loki Wrote: [ -> ]I've revived this thread in order to ask a question.

When I meditate I have first to face the noise of my thinking mind which seems to be keen on increasing its activity when I decide to meditate. It is almost like a reflex.
I can focus well on given tasks but as soon I decide I want to meditate my mind decides she wants to think.

Anyhow this is normal.

Once I pass this mind proactiveness of thinking I enter for a short time a phase of observing mind, where I observe my body and focus on observing my body, after which I start seeing very clear images, like short movies in front of my closed-eyes. The images are so real that sometimes I pressure my eyelids to prove myself my eyes are closed. The video images are very coherent contemporary scenes and I see people I've never met doing normal stuff. Siting in chairs, moving across some rooms somewhere, talking normally to each other. I can even hear their dialog and voices. If I try to focus my attention on what they do and what they say the films are usually disappearing and my thinking mind reenters the scene. It is frustrating because it seems I see very coherent sequences and dialog but when I do come back I cannot recollect anything but an occasional unknown face.

The type of visions are different from the ones we construct with our minds and seem to form somehow on the back of our minds a bit up inside our heads. These images are in front of my eyes and seem to be independent of my mind.  

Can someone explain this type of visions which seem to be moving my mind from the thinking phase to this vision phase making my meditation impossible? Is this some kind of dream which I can't remember even if I have it while awake?

There are two basic types of meditation. The emptying of the mind to hear the creator, and to visualize a symbol to build the faculties of concentration and will. One of the stumbling blocks for people is the term visualize. Many people can only "see" something in their mind without having an actual visual experience, and some people cannot visualize on any level at all. Being able to actually see scenes in meditation is a good thing IMO. As you would likely do well with the second type of meditation.

The only way you will discover what the phenomena you are experiencing is thru repeated experience. If you accept the experience and do not attach any expectations to it, thru time and repetition you should discover for yourself the significance of it.

Thank you for your response Dtis. Funny thing (and frustrating) is that will does not seem to work well with my "so-called" visions. I've tried the visualization exercises and the only way I can visualize is at the back of my mind. The images in front of my closed-eyes seem to be exclusively under the control of what it seems to be unconscious mind. So firstly I need to switch my conscious mind from thinking to observing mode in order for the video to start flowing. But I don't know how it starts I am just in the middle of it and when I try to pay attention dissipates.