Bring4th

Is it possible to have a thought that exists outside of the archetypes?

Or are the archetypes all-encompassing for every possibility in infinity?

An archetype is just an original form that all specific instances are simply imitations of.  A sort of "ideal" pattern that all others are a specific instance of.

So, in that sense, any thought you could possibly have would fall within the purview of those ideal patterns held by the OIC.  So your latter answer is more nearly correct in my opinion.

I think its possible. Perhaps once a concept becomes coherent enough, it becomes an archetype in its own right. You become a new archetype.

(02-21-2016, 11:13 AM)Matt1 Wrote: [ -> ]I think its possible. Perhaps once a concept becomes coherent enough, it becomes an archetype in its own right. You become a new archetype.

I like your idea...I would imgaine the only real limitation is our ability to perceive concepts, not that there is any true limit to what is possible. Of course, reality being what it is, if a concept isn't comprehended or grounded enough in any real sense, then ain't nobody going to experience jack s***, lol.

I'm pretty certain those of Ra mention a level of mind above the archetypal. But regardless, I don't understand the archetypes as limits on thought. Rather, I see them as latent forms that thoughts resonate with in a more or less harmonious fashion. I definitely don't consider the archetypal mind a constraint on thought, but rather a hyper-abstract intelligence designed to frame evolution. It does not dictate thoughts, in other words, but merely provides the background for them to have meaning on our spiritual path.

I think Ra mentions the cosmic mind, which as far as I can tell is the archetypical mind.

Quote:22.1 Questioner: The instrument would like to ask a couple of questions of you. I’ll get them out of the way first. The instrument would like to know why she smells the incense at various times during the day in various places?

Ra: I am Ra. This instrument has spent a lifetime in dedication to service. This has brought this instrument to this nexus in space/time with the conscious and unconscious distortion towards service, with the further conscious distortion towards service by communication. Each time, as you would put it, that we perform this working our social memory complex vibrational distortion meshes more firmly with this instrument’s unconscious distortions towards service. Thus we are becoming a part of this instrument’s vibratory complex and it a part of ours. This occurs upon the unconscious level, the level whereby the mind has gone down through to the roots of consciousness which you may call cosmic.

Quote:42.16 Questioner: I had one experience in meditation which I spoke of before which was very profound approximately twenty years ago, a little less. What disciplines would be most applicable to re-create this situation and this type of experience?

Ra: I am Ra. Your experience would best be approached from the ceremonial magical stance. However, the Wanderer or adept shall have the far greater potential for this type of experience which, as you have undoubtedly analyzed to be the case, is one of an archetypal nature, one belonging to the roots of cosmic consciousness.

If there's something beyond that, I don't recall off the top of my head. I wouldn't be surprised.

Quote:Questioner: Thank you. Would you define mind, body, and spirit separately?

Ra: I am Ra. These terms are all simplistic descriptive terms which equal a complex of energy focuses; the body, as you call it, being the material of the density which you experience at a given space/time or time/space; this complex of materials being available for distortions of what you would call physical manifestation.

The mind is a complex which reflects the inpourings of the spirit and the up-pourings of the body complex. It contains what you know as feelings, emotions, and intellectual thoughts in its more conscious complexities. Moving further down the tree of mind we see the intuition which is of the nature of the mind more in contact or in tune with the total beingness complex. Moving down to the roots of mind we find the progression of consciousness which gradually turns from the personal to the racial memory, to the cosmic influxes, and thus becomes a direct contactor of that shuttle which we call the spirit complex.

This spirit complex is the channel whereby the inpourings from all of the various universal, planetary, and personal inpourings may be funneled into the roots of consciousness and whereby consciousness may be funneled to the gateway of intelligent infinity through the balanced intelligent energy of body and mind.

You will see by this series of definitive statements that mind, body, and spirit are inextricably intertwined and cannot continue, one without the other. Thus we refer to the mind/body/spirit complex rather than attempting to deal with them separately, for the work, shall we say, that you do during your experiences is done through the interaction of these three components, not through any one.

Quote:The archetypical mind may be defined as that mind which is peculiar to the Logos of this planetary sphere. Thusly unlike the great cosmic all-mind, it contains the material which it pleased the Logos to offer as refinements to the great cosmic beingness. The archetypical mind, then, is that which contains all facets which may affect mind or experience.

So I would say it's possible to move past the archetypical mind and in to the cosmic all-mind and this is likely what occurs when one makes contact with the spirit and begins using it as a shuttle.

However, it seems that all the 'content' we experience on this planet is tied to the archetypes.

Do the archetypes limit Infinity?

(02-23-2016, 12:55 PM)IndigoGeminiWolf Wrote: [ -> ]Do the archetypes limit Infinity?

Quite the opposite to me.

What I think is that the veil limits infinity, and the archetypes thin the veil.

Sorry to be a broken record, but anybody enjoying this conversation would be extremely well served reading Stephen Tyman's A Fool's Phenomenology. These questions are explored in exhaustive detail.

(02-23-2016, 12:55 PM)IndigoGeminiWolf Wrote: [ -> ]Do the archetypes limit Infinity?

While you are technically correct, that they limit infinity, it might be better to think of it in terms of the understanding that they are "refinements" on infinity.  Imagine a mass of radio signals, so diverse that there is a perfectly opposing radio signal to any other one.  They cancel each other all out.  It is the sound of silence (seeming emptiness that is pregnant with everythingness).  The archetypes, as refinements on infinity, are like "tuning" into a specific frequency, so that you can hear its song.  Thus, the 3rd density archetypes depicted by Ra allow us to hear the song of 3rd density.

The archetypes that Ra spoke of were the archetypes of mind, body, and spirit.  So they were "archetypes of function", a sort of mechanical depiction of how those focuses of consciousness function within the 3rd density environment.  The archetypes of mind, body, and spirit for 4th density and subsequent densities are similar in structure, but different in nuance.  The refinements on infinity are always from the general to the specific, because infinity is not specific, it is general, and intangible.  The general is the container for the specific.  Much like a block of wood, or marble, the sculpture to be is already contained within (in potentiation), but to be able to "see it" it must be set apart from the portion of its substance that does not fit within the archetype of the sculpture.  

Thus the sculpture is a refinement on the original form, which is, as I've said, formless.

There are people used to image an archetype, moreover they have 'labels'. If you will wander off, you will get people you know of instead of archetypal ones. But normally they are not noticable. But maybe you can find among real and close people, that you do not notice as well.

Is it possible for a material body to be made of something other than matter? The archetypes are the fundamental blocks out of which our thoughts and feelings are composed.

It is possible for us to think about the more basic concepts that compose the archetypes (which themselves are concept complexes), but we cannot go past this boundary. Archetypes are to the mind what amino acids are for the body. There can be no body without amino acids, and these acids are the primary material our bodies are constructed from; however, our bodies do also use simpler compounds and elements, just as the mind also makes use of simpler concepts. Even so, there is no human activity---bodily, mental or spiritual---that does not make heavy, heavy use of archetypes.

Bring4th_Jade Wrote:I think Ra mentions the cosmic mind, which as far as I can tell is the archetypical mind.

Yes, this is the level that Jeremy was referring to. It is not "beyond" the archetypes in the sense that we can access it and leave behind the archetypal mind as an obsolete structure. However, it is also not identical to the archetypes.

Rather, it is the more fundamental structure atop which the archetypal mind rests. If the cosmic mind is the foundation, the archetypal mind is the house. Continuing the metaphor, the planetary mind is the interior design.

The cosmic mind is a level that is predicated by the archetypes. If the archetypal mind gives the physical laws of the universe (which it does), then the cosmic mind gives the mathematical structure without which the physical laws of the universe could not be expressed. Yes, we can study math without reference to physics, but when we apply the math we circle back to physics.

jeremy6d Wrote:But regardless, I don't understand the archetypes as limits on thought. Rather, I see them as latent forms that thoughts resonate with in a more or less harmonious fashion. I definitely don't consider the archetypal mind a constraint on thought, but rather a hyper-abstract intelligence designed to frame evolution. It does not dictate thoughts, in other words, but merely provides the background for them to have meaning on our spiritual path.

I think we need a better definition of "limit." I can tell my step-son that he is limited to the front and back yards. This limitation is a distinct boundary beyond which he is not allowed to step, but the opportunities for experience within this limitation are yet infinite. In other words, it is mathematically possible for there to be a bounded infinity (this was proven by Georg Cantor). This is precisely how I see the archetypal mind limiting human experience. It is a blueprint of all energy exchanges, which means that we don't get to have energy exchanges that are not described by the archetypes. However, that does not limit the variety of energy exchanges; it only limits the materials out of which energy exchange is constructed.

(05-14-2016, 11:53 AM)JustLikeYou Wrote: [ -> ]It is a blueprint of all energy exchanges, which means that we don't get to have energy exchanges that are not described by the archetypes. However, that does not limit the variety of energy exchanges; it only limits the materials out of which energy exchange is constructed.

I have a different way of thinking about the archetypes, but I don't know if my way of thinking makes any practical difference. 

I see them as the natural containers into which the experiences in the Earth Life School flow.  They are big cups collecting the Universal energy/rain, each a different shape and size.  When full, the entity drinks of the archetype and then knows about the cup.  But this analogy presumes that some experiences, some "energy exchanges." are not captured by the cups/archetypes, like rain which falls to the ground and is lost/ignored.  I guess examples of this "lost rain" would be casual chat with someone.  Our jobs and work and most of the "time" we spend here involves energy exchange, but it is (for the most part) trivial and non-archetypical in nature.  It is ignored.  (Think TV or playing solitaire.)

But the energies exist, and they still interact with me; they just don't matter and don't collect into critical archetypical mass.

To me, the archetypes are our natural in-born rain collectors.  Each of us has these 22 cups, but only two hands.  So we gather water in several of these over a lifetime.  If we plan it right, we will get to drink from one or more of these cups and to "experience the archetype."  Other experiences and energy exchanges do occur, there is energy for them, but we are "tuned" to find significance only in these 22. 

Experiences and energies don't spring from the archetypes.  They are not the basis for all experience, but they are the basis for all meaningful experiences.

Anyway, that's my weird take.