Bring4th

Tenet Nosce Wrote:I'm new to this forum but not new to Law of One.

Greetings, Tenet Nosce! Welcome to the forum!

Tenet Nosce Wrote:After many years of research, I find myself coming back to the same fundamental question: How does it actually work?

I too, have pondered deeply upon this, and will offer some insights. But before I do, may I suggest that you take a close look at your query, keeping this in mind:

Quote:Ra: I am Ra. It is absolutely necessary that an entity consciously realize it does not understand in order for it to be harvestable. Understanding is not of this density.

Tenet Nosce Wrote:I will briefly summarize what I (think) I know and then frame the question in more specific terms.

Keyword being (think)...

Tenet Nosce Wrote:1. Harvest is a process by which entities progress in the densities based on their degree of polarization.

This is incorrect. Harvest is the process by which entities are moved from one sphere of influence to another. This may, or may not, involve "progression" as you have termed it.

Tenet Nosce Wrote:2. Although there are circumstances unique to Earth, harvest is a common experience, taking into account the vastness of consciousness spread throughout space and time.

Actually, we don't really know all that much beyond the bounds of our Solar Logos. Harvest may be a relatively new phenomenon in galactic terms. Such as the social memory complex, for example.

However, to respond more directly:

51.1 Wrote:Ra: Thus the harvest is automatic in that those harvested will respond according to that which is unchangeable during harvest. That is the violet ray emanation. However, these helpers are around to ensure a proper harvesting so that each entity may have the fullest opportunity to express its violet ray selfhood.

Tenet Nosce Wrote:3. Many Wanderers are now incarnate which have previously experienced harvest from 3D.

Yes, as well as 4D, 5D and 6D. If 7D wanderers exist, I am not sure. These may be who Ra referred to as the "guardians" in the above quote:

51.1 Wrote:Ra: The third group watching over this process is that group you call the Guardians. This group is from the octave above our own and serves in this manner as light bringers. These Guardians provide the precise emissions of light/love in exquisitely fastidious disseminations of discrimination so that the precise light/love vibration of each entity may be ascertained.

Tenet Nosce Wrote:4. There are four general post-harvest paths available to us.
a. Progression from 3D to 4D positive
b. Progression from 3D to 4D negative
c. Repeat of 3D
d. Progression from 3D into one of the higher densities

Aside from the distortion of "progression" you appear to have the general gist of the phenomenon.

I would also offer:

e. Whatever is chosen upon contact with intelligent infinity.

13.7 Wrote:Questioner: After this, what came next?

Ra: I am Ra. Awareness led to the focus of infinity into infinite energy. You have called this by various vibrational sound complexes, the most common to your ears being “Logos” or “Love.” The Creator is the focusing of infinity as an aware or conscious principle called by us as closely as we can create understanding/learning in your language, intelligent infinity.

13.8 Wrote:Questioner: Can you state the next step?

Ra: I am Ra. The next step is still at this space/time nexus in your illusion achieving its progression as you may see it in your illusion. The next step is an infinite reaction to the creative principle following the Law of One in one of its primal distortions, freedom of will. Thus many, many dimensions, infinite in number, are possible. The energy moves from the intelligent infinity due first to the outpouring of randomized creative force, this then creating patterns which in holographic style appear as the entire creation no matter which direction or energy is explored. These patterns of energy begin then to regularize their own local, shall we say, rhythms and fields of energy, thus creating dimensions and universes.

Recall, there are infinite dimensions which are holographic in nature. There is One Infinite Creator which is intelligent infinity.

Tenet Nosce Wrote:5. As linear time approaches the harvest point, the exact nature of events becomes increasingly unpredictable.

Two things. First, there is no such thing as "linear time". We are in hologram.

Consider, for example, the nature in which "history" tends to "repeat itself". In 2333 BC we have Sargon the Great proclaiming himself to be the "One True King". In 1333BC we have Akhenaten (recall a Ra contact here). In 333BC Alexander the Great. In 333 we have Constantine. In 1333 we have Edward III. There are countless examples you may find such as these.

In addition, we also have the "timewave" effects noted by McKenna, as well as the Mayan cycles of time as depicted by Arguelles and Calleman.

Tenet Nosce Wrote:Given these data points, the question still remains of how the experience of individuals on these various tracks actually diverges. I have not been able to locate any good information on this.

Pardon, but you claim to have studied the Ra material? Perhaps you should go back and review. The answer is right there in the beginning. I think you may have many ideas swimming around in your head at one time.

This is well, and will likely be fruitful. If I may, the qualities you appear to be lacking here are humility and patience. You would do well to ponder upon this.

Here is the quote which contradicts your statement that "I have not been able to locate any good information on this."

13.1 Wrote:Ra: I am Ra. The steps, as you call them, are, at the point of question, simultaneous and infinite.

Tenet Nosce Wrote:I understand that specific predictions about any one individual, or humanity as a whole, are unlikely due to free will considerations.

Obviously.

Tenet Nosce Wrote:However, it would be helpful to many of us to at least have some examples of possible scenarios by which this can actually unfold.

Pardon me, but I beg to differ. "Scenarios" as you would call them would be a hindrance, not a help.

Tenet Nosce Wrote:Currently in 3D we are living in a "consensus reality" where people who will be parting ways are still living together and interacting on a daily basis.

Incorrect. We simultaneously among all densities and infinite dimensions.

70.12 Wrote:Ra: I am Ra. We refrain from speaking of correctness due to our understanding of the immense difficulty of absorbing the concepts of metaphysical existence. In time/space, which is precisely as much of your self as is space/time, all times are simultaneous just as, in your geography, your cities and villages are all functioning, bustling, and alive with entities going about their business at once. So it is in time/space with the self.

Tenet Nosce Wrote:For simplicity sake, let us consider a family of four, each which has chosen a different path. Mom is going to 4D positive. Dad to 4D negative. Daughter is repeating 3D. Son is a Wanderer returning to 5D.

This consideration is hardly simple, and is in fact highly unlikely.

Tenet Nosce Wrote:What are some examples of scenarios that could unfold which allow each to follow their own path without infringing on the freewill of the others?

See above.

Tenet Nosce Wrote:At some point there has to be a break.

There are breaks at every point. Ponder upon this.

Tenet Nosce Wrote:One day they all have breakfast together. The next they are off on their next adventure in consciousness.

Sounds just like any other day to me.

Tenet Nosce Wrote:The only obvious answer is physical death.

The only obvious answer to what? You appear to have a hidden "question" here.

Tenet Nosce Wrote:The problem with this is that, in the big picture, it suggests some type of mass casualty event(s) and all of the credible channeled sources seem to point that no major disasters are going to occur.

In the "Big Picture" all is well and there are no problems.

Tenet Nosce Wrote:So far, the most I can come up with is a response that "whatever you believe will occur, it what will happen for you" but I feel like that is evading the question.

Again, what question? And again, how would that be different from any other day?

Tenet Nosce Wrote:Kind of like when highly religious people are pressed on certain logical inconsistencies in their beliefs and defer to "Well God is a mystery, and we are limited beings who can't possibly fathom that level of consciousness"

It sounds to me like those people have acquired a bit of wisdom.

Tenet Nosce Wrote:OK, fine.

Fine.

Tenet Nosce Wrote:But that doesn't change the fact that each of us is going to have an experience which DOES match our level of consciousness.

51.1 Wrote:Thus the harvest is automatic in that those harvested will respond according to that which is unchangeable during harvest. That is the violet ray emanation. However, these helpers are around to ensure a proper harvesting so that each entity may have the fullest opportunity to express its violet ray selfhood.

In other words, there is nothing you can "do" about it. So you might as well enjoy the ride!

Tenet Nosce Wrote:I just think that given how common this experience of harvest is, there must be "someone" out there that can provide some examples of scenarios which explain how this all actually works from the most mundane perspective.

1.1 Wrote:Ra: I am Ra. We communicate now. We, too, have our place. We are not those of the Love or of the Light. We are those who are of the Law of One. In our vibration the polarities are harmonized, the complexities are simplified, and the paradoxes have their solution. We are one. That is our nature and our purpose.

We are old upon your planet and have served with varying degrees of success in transmitting the Law of One, of Unity, of Singleness to your peoples. We have walked your earth. We have seen the faces of your peoples. This is not so with many of the entities of the Confederation. We found it was not efficaceous. However, we then felt the great responsibility of staying in the capacity of removing the distortions and powers that had been given to the Law of One. We will continue in this until your, shall we say, cycle is appropriately ended. If not this one, then the next. We are not a part of time and, thus, are able to be with you in any of your times.

Does this give you enough information from which to extract our purpose, my brother?

Tenet Nosce Wrote:Any ideas or references on the matter?

1.6 Wrote:In truth there is no right or wrong. There is no polarity for all will be, as you would say, reconciled at some point in your dance through the mind/body/spirit complex which you amuse yourself by distorting in various ways at this time. This distortion is not in any case necessary. It is chosen by each of you as an alternative to understanding the complete unity of thought which binds all things. You are not speaking of similar or somewhat like entities or things. You are every thing, every being, every emotion, every event, every situation. You are unity. You are infinity. You are love/light, light/love. You are. This is the Law of One.

May we enunciate this law in more detail?

Ra's viewpoint was that the physical changes to earth during harvest are unimportant, and that every soul will be able to pretty much live out their life as they planned it (as long as their free will doesn't change the plan too much of course). The death of the physical body will come as it was pre-planned for each individual....the so called harvest is a metaphysical, after-death affair. I do not have the quotes to cite this, but I remember this much at least from reading the material. So given your example, the family of 4 who are each going to different realities will be none the wiser until they are on the other side, and at that time will remember everything about their identity and progress/return to whatever level of reality that is harmonious to them.

Godspeed!

(05-28-2010, 12:48 PM)Turtle Wrote: [ -> ].the so called harvest is a metaphysical, after-death affair. I do not have the quotes to cite this, but I remember this much at least from reading the material.

doesnt seem to be the case :

http://www.lawofone.info/results.php?sea...&ss=1&sc=1

Quote:17.29 Questioner: Am I to understand that the harvest is to occur in the year 2011, or will it be spread out?

Ra: I am Ra. This is an approximation. We have stated we have difficulty with your time/space. This is an appropriate probable/possible time/space nexus for harvest. Those who are not in incarnation at this time will be included in the harvest.

also notice the mechanism of harvest :

Quote:6.14 Questioner: I think that it would be appropriate to discover how the Law of One acts in this transfer of beings to our planet and the action of harvest?

Ra: I am Ra. The Law of One states simply that all things are one, that all beings are one. There are certain behaviors and thought-forms consonant with the understanding and practice of this law. Those who, finishing a cycle of experience, demonstrate grades of distortion of that understanding of thought and action will be separated by their own choice into the vibratory distortion most comfortable to their mind/body/spirit complexes. This process is guarded or watched by those nurturing beings who, being very close to the Law of One in their distortions, nevertheless, move towards active service.

Thus, the illusion is created of light, or more properly but less understandably, light/love. This is in varying degrees of intensity. The spirit complex of each harvested entity moves along the line of light until the light grows too glaring, at which time the entity stops. This entity may have barely reached third density or may be very, very close to the ending of the third-density light/love distortion vibratory complex. Nevertheless, those who fall within this octave of intensifying light/love then experience a major cycle during which there are opportunities for the discovery of the distortions which are inherent in each entity and, therefore, the lessening of these distortions.

importance here is, this is third density harvest. notice how higher density harvests are different.

ra repeatedly says world is already physically in 4d vibrations, and this causing numerous issues and effects due to friction of the 3d negative thought patterns in population of earth, some of which being the unusable, generated heat, and the various earthquakes and 'crust ruptures' that generated heat causes, while the planet tries to align to increasing 4d vibrations.

so basically, we ARE in 4d. however, there is also 3d.

will the 3d and 4d separate, that i dont know, despite it is told to be going to happen in various channelings. but, still i dont know how it will work.

(05-28-2010, 12:48 PM)Turtle Wrote: [ -> ]Ra's viewpoint was that the physical changes to earth during harvest are unimportant, and that every soul will be able to pretty much live out their life as they planned it (as long as their free will doesn't change the plan too much of course). The death of the physical body will come as it was pre-planned for each individual....the so called harvest is a metaphysical, after-death affair.

So just to clarify, you are saying that physical death is the only mechanism of passage?

(05-28-2010, 03:52 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-28-2010, 12:48 PM)Turtle Wrote: [ -> ]Ra's viewpoint was that the physical changes to earth during harvest are unimportant, and that every soul will be able to pretty much live out their life as they planned it (as long as their free will doesn't change the plan too much of course). The death of the physical body will come as it was pre-planned for each individual....the so called harvest is a metaphysical, after-death affair.

So just to clarify, you are saying that physical death is the only mechanism of passage?

i have read about taras bulba, genghis khan and rasputin in Ra again, who were said to have opened the door to gateway to intelligent infinity during their lives. therefore, qualifying for harvest and gaining the honor/responsibility/privilege of choosing the manner of their harvest or something. (i dont remember the exact wording.)

but, here is a link to the negatives who were able to open the gateway to intelligent infinity during their lives. positives are not listed here

http://www.lawofone.info/results.php?cat...C+Rasputin

all of them died normal deaths it seems. rasputin was shot multiple times, was poisoned in the process before that, and refused to die for a long time until he fell in the river, but and thats the extent of the unusuality of his condition.

[quote='unity100' pid='14849' dateline='1275073718']

[quote]17.29 Questioner: Am I to understand that the harvest is to occur in the year 2011, or will it be spread out?

Ra: I am Ra. This is an approximation. We have stated we have difficulty with your time/space. This is an appropriate probable/possible time/space nexus for harvest. Those who are not in incarnation at this time will be included in the harvest.[/quote]

Right. So Ra is saying here that harvest is a discrete event. I am assuming from this language we are talking about a period of a few years at most.

The response also implies that those who are currently incarnation and those who are not incarnated will be occupying the same reality and openly communicating with one another.

So take the example of the daughter who is repeating 3D. In order to remain in the illusion she cannot observe her mother openly interacting with 4D beings who are immortal.

[quote]Those who, finishing a cycle of experience, demonstrate grades of distortion of that understanding of thought and action will be separated by their own choice into the vibratory distortion most comfortable to their mind/body/spirit complexes.[/quote]

This raises the fundamental question of by what kinds of choices would be presented which would not infringe upon free will.

[quote]will the 3d and 4d separate, that i dont know, despite it is told to be going to happen in various channelings. but, still i dont know how it will work.[/quote]

This gets back to the idea that it is all going to occur within the next year and a half! There would need to be a whole host of very unlikely events occur in a very short time.

(05-28-2010, 04:19 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: [ -> ]This gets back to the idea that it is all going to occur within the next year and a half! There would need to be a whole host of very unlikely events occur in a very short time.

well i dont know about that.

from what i understood from the q/as i read from Ra :

ra talks about world already being 4d space/time (physical existence) and receiving 4d vibrations and energies. (and this creating problems because of 3d negative thought patterns in population)

they say it will take approx 30 years, circa 1980. it roughly comes to vicinity of 2009-2012 or something. then i guess, the harvest will end (by 2011 or something the q/as said) and even those not incarnated will become harvested at that time.

therefore, harvest is going on as of now, since energies from intelligent infinity is pouring in, as they say. but then again, a certain date is given as 2011 or close, for harvest, and that does not mean that harvest is going on as of now ?

if the latter is true, then there will probably be an influx of intelligent energy due to world getting totally aligned with the incoming green energy vibrations ?

what will happen to those who didnt qualify for harvest. will they live and die normal lives as Ra says ? however, those who cant adapt to 4d vibrations in a 4d world will have friction and difficulties with 3d vibrations. discrepancies, 'madness' (from facing one's own self without being ready for it, as Ra says in another q/a), various physiological issues probably (just like how earth experiences now).

and what will happen to those who adapt to 4d ? will they remain together with all the others in 3d ? or, will they become 'invisible', and move into a totally 4d sphere ? (ra talks about how a 4d sphere is shaping up, forming up in the q/as).

the matter is a bit in the air it seems.

Yeah, I was only speaking about those like us who are incarnated...WE definitely have to die a physical death before we can get harvested. Different story for the non-incarnated ones.

Godspeed!

(05-29-2010, 04:13 AM)Turtle Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah, I was only speaking about those like us who are incarnated...WE definitely have to die a physical death before we can get harvested. Different story for the non-incarnated ones.

my understanding/suspicion with this is that; there wont be a particular necessity for death for getting harvested for the incarnated 4d or higher souls.

when the planet aligns to 4d vibrations around 2011-2012 (or 2010, whenever, i dont know) or something, 4d souls will be already living in a 4d vibrating world, alive, incarnated. there wont be any reason to have them die.

harvest can happen while they are asleep, or any other means, in my opinion. after all, its (4 harvest) basically a test to see how close to a strong light source (probably from the next octave, btw) a soul can get.

the guy/gal sleeps, you take him/her to a portion in astral plane, you set the harvest setup up, the individual moves towards the light source, you determine the exact step s/he stopped, and voila, you get your harvest.

s/he may or may not remember it when woken up, s/he may or may not feel a great love and compassion and a sense of oneness after waking up, it all depends on what the soul chooses.

but then, what the situation of souls, that are wanderers and from 5d and higher will be, that, i dont know.

when the clock ticks, they will be living in a 3-4d body, in a 4d world. as a 5th or higher individual.

(05-29-2010, 11:08 AM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-29-2010, 04:13 AM)Turtle Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah, I was only speaking about those like us who are incarnated...WE definitely have to die a physical death before we can get harvested. Different story for the non-incarnated ones.

my understanding/suspicion with this is that; there wont be a particular necessity for death for getting harvested for the incarnated 4d or higher souls.

when the planet aligns to 4d vibrations around 2011-2012 (or 2010, whenever, i dont know) or something, 4d souls will be already living in a 4d vibrating world, alive, incarnated. there wont be any reason to have them die.

harvest can happen while they are asleep, or any other means, in my opinion. after all, its (4 harvest) basically a test to see how close to a strong light source (probably from the next octave, By the way) a soul can get.

the guy/gal sleeps, you take him/her to a portion in astral plane, you set the harvest setup up, the individual moves towards the light source, you determine the exact step s/he stopped, and voila, you get your harvest.

s/he may or may not remember it when woken up, s/he may or may not feel a great love and compassion and a sense of oneness after waking up, it all depends on what the soul chooses.

but then, what the situation of souls, that are wanderers and from 5d and higher will be, that, i dont know.

when the clock ticks, they will be living in a 3-4d body, in a 4d world. as a 5th or higher individual.

RA: You must see the Earth as being 7 planets. There is red, orange, yellow, and there will soon be a completed green color vibratory locus for 4th density entities which they will call Earth. DURING THE 4TH DENSITY EXPERIENCE, THE 3RD DENSITY SPHERE IS NOT USEFUL FOR HABITATION, (i.e. by 3rd density beings) because the early 4th density entity will not know precisely how to remain undetectable by 3rd density. Thus in 4th density the red, orange and green energy nexi (centers) of your planet will be activated while the yellow is in potentiation along with blue and indigo.

So how it will happen I am not sure. But according to this, it seems that when this planet has struck the hour (being in 2011, Ra counted 30 years from 1981 sessions) 3rd density earth will not be sustaining ANY life whatsoever. I think this is why David Wilcock is a firm believer that there will be "mass ascension" which really means everyone is going to be harvested at the same time and go to their personalized inner plane experience of the spiral of light...and then go to their proper density to continue experiencing existence.

and then this..

QUESTION: As this transition continues into 4th density activation, in order to inhabit this 4th density earth it will be necessary for all 3rd density physical bodies to go through the process which we refer to as death. Is this correct? (B3, S63, 92)

RA: This is correct.

And then David's quote just under that...

[NOTE: This is the most widely misunderstood quote in the Law of One series. Context reveals that Ra is referring to a transmutation, not any type of death as we would normally think of it. This is an ecstatic feeling -- the most incredible moment of any lifetime you've ever had as a human being.

Elsewhere Ra says you CAN reconstitute your third-density body after this happens if you so choose -- you simply have to focus on a "more difficult configuration" to get it back.

Through Wilcock, Ra further revealed that there will be an ET-assisted transition off of the Earth plane prior to the 20-degree polar realignment. This highly joyful and even ecstatic transition will not seem like death at all, even though the time of 3rd density incarnation will come to a natural and unseen end along the way.]

The only confusing part about all of this then for me, is just HOW everyone is going to experience this shift. Will it be that in one second, every single person on earth just leaves their physical body and is then joined by their guides and walked on the spiral of light to determine their next path? Does the veil just DROP like this for everyone instantly? How does this look if you were to be able to view 3d earth; as an outsider would it look like every person on earth just dropped dead in their tracks simultaneously? I don't know...

Godspeed!

PS...not to mention I just read above in this thread how Ra has difficulty with our time/space, and that this 2011 date is an approximation/probability/possibility. WTF?!?! Lol.

(05-29-2010, 12:08 PM)Turtle Wrote: [ -> ]RA: You must see the Earth as being 7 planets. There is red, orange, yellow, and there will soon be a completed green color vibratory locus for 4th density entities which they will call Earth. DURING THE 4TH DENSITY EXPERIENCE, THE 3RD DENSITY SPHERE IS NOT USEFUL FOR HABITATION, (i.e. by 3rd density beings) because the early 4th density entity will not know precisely how to remain undetectable by 3rd density. Thus in 4th density the red, orange and green energy nexi (centers) of your planet will be activated while the yellow is in potentiation along with blue and indigo.

yes i remember this part.

however i also am able to interpret it as thus :

when the clock ticks for this planet, since the planet will be full with increasingly incarnated senior souls (those who are closest to harvest are given priority for some time), the majority of earth population will be in a high frequency at the border of 4th already.

therefore when the clock ticks, these individuals who are not past the minimum barrier of 4th, may still be able to shoulder the initial frequency of the now aligned 4d.

we know that earth as space/time (ie physically) is in 4d vibrations, but having difficulties due to the social spiritual environment of the human population being still negatively 3d. and it is experiencing heat, and having to readjust itself to receive the 4d influx properly.

now, will or will a dimensional shift happen or not, at the time of this tick, is the question.

(05-29-2010, 12:08 PM)Turtle Wrote: [ -> ]and then this..

QUESTION: As this transition continues into 4th density activation, in order to inhabit this 4th density earth it will be necessary for all 3rd density physical bodies to go through the process which we refer to as death. Is this correct? (B3, S63, 92)

RA: This is correct.

And then David's quote just under that...

[i][NOTE: This is the most widely misunderstood quote in the Law of One series. Context reveals that Ra is referring to a transmutation, not any type of death as we would normally think of it. This is an ecstatic feeling -- the most incredible moment of any lifetime you've ever had as a human being.

Godspeed!

PS...not to mention I just read above in this thread how Ra has difficulty with our time/space, and that this 2011 date is an approximation/probability/possibility. WTF?!?! Lol.

i do not believe in the validity of willcock claims. the language, tone, and the manner information is disseminated is quite different from Ra material, furthermore, its riddled with individual-oriented remarks like 'i wouldnt have you any other way'. which is some kind of personal gratification/praise that you could never see in a Ra contact.

moreover, the question posed by don to Ra, and the answer Ra gives, is crystal clear. physical process death ? answer is yes.

Quote:i do not believe in the validity of willcock claims. the language, tone, and the manner information is disseminated is quite different from Ra material, furthermore, its riddled with individual-oriented remarks like 'i wouldnt have you any other way'. which is some kind of personal gratification/praise that you could never see in a Ra contact.

moreover, the question posed by don to Ra, and the answer Ra gives, is crystal clear. physical process death ? answer is yes.

I don't think that's completely fair. Wilcock is a 3d incarnate who has more invested in this harvest than does Ra. Wilcock also isn't nearly as knowledgeable or as removed/apathetic to what happens in the coming times as Ra was/is. I wouldn't expect anyone except the Christ figures of our past to approach the tone of Ra when speaking about the coming harvest. Even Jesus didn't sound like Ra (though I haven't read the original manuscripts!) Carla, too, doesn't sound like Ra when speaking.

I don't know that we can hold 3d incarnates to the same standards as we do channeled entities.

On topic: I still have no idea whether it will be immediate, drawn out, or some other option. No ideas /shrug

(05-29-2010, 02:03 PM)JoshC Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think that's completely fair. Wilcock is a 3d incarnate who has more invested in this harvest than does Ra. Wilcock also isn't nearly as knowledgeable or as removed/apathetic to what happens in the coming times as Ra was/is. I wouldn't expect anyone except the Christ figures of our past to approach the tone of Ra when speaking about the coming harvest. Even Jesus didn't sound like Ra (though I haven't read the original manuscripts!) Carla, too, doesn't sound like Ra when speaking.

I don't know that we can hold 3d incarnates to the same standards as we do channeled entities.

On topic: I still have no idea whether it will be immediate, drawn out, or some other option. No ideas /shrug

i meant the channeling he had done, that was said to be of Ra. not the guy's everyday comments and talk. the channeling he was doing did not resemble or carry the characteristics and mannerisms of Ra material from earlier.

Quote:Questioner: Now as this transition continues into fourth-density activation, in order to inhabit this fourth-density sphere it will be necessary for all third-density physical bodies to go through the process which we refer to as death. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is correct.

Search for "death" at http://www.lawofone.info/

P.S. I think there is some confusion around the word "death" though, and that depending on the context it is used in different ways. I know from personal experience that it is possible to disconnect the mind/body/spirit complex from the chemical body, and that the return is pretty much like a "rebirth" of sorts, with the disconnect then being perceived as a "death."
D.S.

(05-29-2010, 02:50 PM)pphuck Wrote: [ -> ]Search for "death" at http://www.lawofone.info/

P.S. I think there is some confusion around the word "death" though, and that depending on the context it is used in different ways. I know from personal experience that it is possible to disconnect the mind/spirit complex from the body complex, and that the return is pretty much like a "rebirth" of sorts, with the disconnect then being perceived as a "death."
D.S.

but then it becomes a metaphorical death, or a death and a reincarnation, not 'the process what we know as death'.

(05-29-2010, 03:49 PM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]but then it becomes a metaphorical death, or a death and a reincarnation, not 'the process what we know as death'.

"you" don't really die when "your body" dies either, though, so i'm not completely sure what the difference is - besides 1) returning to your body or 2) not returning to what was your body

(05-29-2010, 03:53 PM)pphuck Wrote: [ -> ]"you" don't really die when "your body" dies either, though, so i'm not completely sure what the difference is - besides 1) returning to your body or 2) not returning to what was your body

well, the difference is, the cessation of the existence of the third density physical body. the physical death is not the end of the individual, but, in all cases throughout history, has been the end of the physical body inhabited at that time ...

(05-29-2010, 04:13 PM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]well, the difference is, the cessation of the existence of the third density physical body. the physical death is not the end of the individual, but, in all cases throughout history, has been the end of the physical body inhabited at that time ...

to me, that's just circular reasoning - does Ra say anything about this?

(05-29-2010, 04:32 PM)pphuck Wrote: [ -> ]to me, that's just circular reasoning - does Ra say anything about this?

in all the cases i read by searching word 'death' in lawofone info repository, what has been talked about was physical death, cessation of the existence of the 3d physical body.

(05-29-2010, 04:34 PM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]65.20 Questioner: [...] You mentioned in speaking of the pyramids the resonating chamber was used so that the adept could meet the self. Would you explain what you meant by that?

Ra: I am Ra. One meets the self in the center or deeps of the being. The so-called resonating chamber may be likened unto the symbology of the burial and resurrection of the body wherein the entity dies to self and through this confrontation of apparent loss and realization of essential gain, is transmuted into a new and risen being.

i'm still not convinced there's a difference - maybe there's something to be found around references to "out-öf-body experiences" where the body is "more or less dead" and then brought alive again, like when your heart stops

please notice that the word 'symbology' is used in the sentence, to describe the burial and resurrection of the body.

(05-29-2010, 05:32 PM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]please notice that the word 'symbology' is used in the sentence, to describe the burial and resurrection of the body.

yes, please also note the lack of use of the word in the latter part of the sentence...

"through this confrontation of apparent loss and realization of essential gain, is transmuted into a new and risen being."

...especially around "new and risen being"

(05-29-2010, 05:38 PM)pphuck Wrote: [ -> ]"through this confrontation of apparent loss and realization of essential gain, is transmuted into a new and risen being."

the sentence is a full connected sentence with descriptors and adjectives preceding itself in the first part. what i understand is :

"the experience in the pyramid base emulates physical death in metaphor, therefore showing it that it doesnt lose anything by dying, but, actually gaining more spiritually"

(05-29-2010, 05:50 PM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]the sentence is a full connected sentence with descriptors and adjectives preceding itself in the first part.

yes, and what the semantics is stating is, that, with symbology, you can achieve something real, something which is not a metaphor

(05-29-2010, 05:56 PM)pphuck Wrote: [ -> ]yes, and what the semantics is stating is, that, with symbology, you can achieve something real, something which is not a metaphor

however there was no metaphor or symbolism in the question don asked about process we know as death before 4th density and Ra answered as it being correct.

(05-29-2010, 06:08 PM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]however there was no metaphor or symbolism in the question don asked about process we know as death before 4th density and Ra answered as it being correct.

now you completely lost me, or returned to circular reasoning again

(05-29-2010, 06:13 PM)pphuck Wrote: [ -> ]now you completely lost me, or returned to circular reasoning again

no, not at all.

in the last example you gave, ie the pyramid base experience, due to the complex structure of the sentence there may be various possibilities of interpretation,

but,

in the direct query of don to Ra about death before 4d harvest, physical death is described as 'process we know as death' (we being the human civilization at this point), and in a blunt manner, to which the ansewer is yes.

in almost all cases i saw in any q/a concerning death, physical death was described in the manner 'we' as human civilization describes it. this leaves little room from inferring any potential 'methaporical' meaning there may be in the pyramid base example you gave, to all of those cases, and ultimately the 'death before 4d harvest' question.

in all respects, i myself would like an uninterrupted (no loss of conscioussness or 3-4d physical body) transition to 4d in this planet as i am now (frequency increase of the body and soul acceptable though), because im quite wondering what the difference in between the current 3d society and its vibrations and 4d environment will be. i need to see how conditions, mindset, and behavior will change.

but, the text in Ra material does not suggest it to be so.

please point to which question and answer you are refering to, not your interpretation of the same

there is also this...

Quote:65.21 Questioner: Could I make the analogy of in this apparent death of losing the desires that are the illusory, common desires of third-density and gaining desires of total service-to-others?

Ra: I am Ra. You are perceptive. This was the purpose and intent of this chamber [...]

...where you once again have the word "death" together with "apparent" leading to further ambiguousness

i'm starting to think that we're discussing two completely different things, hopefully someone else has the stamina to read our discussion and add something new to it

I see the law of confusion is still very much in place.


Godspeed!

(05-29-2010, 06:40 PM)pphuck Wrote: [ -> ]please point to which question and answer you are refering to, not your interpretation of the same

i already included it earlier in the other page :

Quote:Questioner: Now as this transition continues into fourth-density activation, in order to inhabit this fourth-density sphere it will be necessary for all third-density physical bodies to go through the process which we refer to as death. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is correct.

Quote:...where you once again have the word "death" together with "apparent" leading to further ambiguousness

in that pyramid base experience q/a, again apparent death, is being used as to mean 'in appearance', so, it means metaphorical death.