Bring4th

This is interesting. I have never before looked back at the last few sessions leading up to the initial Ra contact.

Here Hatonn announces that they have plans to use radio, and maybe television, to broadcast their messages to the people of earth.

Quote:We are, at this time, initiating several, what you would call modes, for sending these messages which we have for your people. One of these programs has to do with your radio communications. We are, at this time, preparing certain communications to be substituted for some of your programming.

Hatonn then expresses a sense of urgency and concern over the coming harvest and uses that to justify their "shock and awe" plan.

Quote:We feel, at this time, that it is of utmost importance to make the information that we have at our disposal available to your people in as many manners, as many vehicles, as possible, for the time of listening and considering grows short. The time of the great changes which long have been spoken of in the cultures and religions and folk stories of your planet, the time is close at hand when this great transformation shall occur.

Quote:In order to do this, there may have to be, in some cases, a certain shocking of the senses, a certain reflecting of consciousness upon itself in manners which previously we would not have considered, this related to our initial message concerning the use of radio transmission of our thoughts as a substitution for the normal programming of certain of your radio transmissions. Such may also be used in the field of your televised pictures over your television stations. From time to time there will appear various images and messages which will have no other explainable source than our transmission.

They even say they are not concerned about free will infringements!

Quote:We realize that it will be unavoidable in such cases to infringe on the rights of some who will witness these events. We have carefully considered this possibility and are willing to take these actions in the hopes that opening the hearts and the minds and the souls of the few who still are able to seek inwardly, that this action will provide such entities with the opportunities which they so richly deserve.

In the very next session (1981.01.11), Latwii swoops in and declares that Hatonn is out of the picture.

Quote:The vibration of Hatonn is working in a new pattern, which is not along any particular geographical frontier or area, for at this particular time the problem is, as it were, a kind of metastasized illness and exists in many parts of the Earth’s body. Therefore, the ones of Hatonn have tuned themselves to a certain energy of negativity and are working on the mass consciousness of that particular part of your planet’s entities. These entities include many which are, as this instrument would call them, the movers and the shakers.

Thus, Hatonn has moved [to the] eighth or final or covering layer or dimension of this particular octave, stretched itself until it covers the entire planet and is tuning in and attempting to ameliorate by love that particular vibration which is doing the most harm to your peoples. This is a vibration of thought, not of deed.

So all of a sudden, Hatonn who was planning to use radio and television waves to contact the masses moves into a vibration of thought, not of deed.

Latwii goes on to insinuate that Hatonn had acted inappropriately. There is a foreshadowing here of the comments Ra later makes about having foolishly acted by love not balanced with wisdom.

Quote:The brothers of Hatonn have spent a great deal of energy working with certain entities and groups of entities, but we have not found this to be in any one case the appropriate action for this particular energy. Thus, the change of, shall we say, strategy attempting to make the best use of those of Hatonn’s special vibration, which is a very, very strong love vibration, and which has had much experience with your Earth’s sphere.

The questioner then inquires about the message they received in the last session. Keep in mind this is only 6 days after last speaking with Hatonn.

Quote:Recently in meditation a new or special project was referred to concerning advanced communication. The impression I received was that our involvement was somehow necessary for this to be accomplished. Is my understanding of this correct, and, if so, how can we best facilitate the effort?

..and the response...

Quote:Essentially you are correct, however there are two completely different means of effecting such communication. One has already been used and we have not found it satisfactory; that is, impressing those people who are sensitive to our message to arrange for the technology necessary to jam one broadcast and substitute another. This involves money, people, time, and can ultimately be ignored since the means of its being done by mere humans, as you would put it, can be discovered or, at least, surmised. The other way is for people, such as this group contains, to make available with all sincerity, and with as much humor as possible, the information of which they are the surest and with which they are the most comfortable. That is, of course, the information having to do with the basic philosophy and something about our basic reasons for working with your peoples.

Cosmology enters in, but we do not expect people to find cosmology an interesting way of being introduced to our message. Thus, the other way of aiding our ability to use your mass media is to make enough of an impression by your own creative efforts on the mass mind of the society in which you live that enough people desire to know more about not only the existence of our being but what message we might be bringing to you, that we could then, without infringing upon the free will of these peoples, feed small bits of information about love and light through these media. If people are not in the majority greatly desirous of this information, we would be infringing upon free will and we would not wish to do this. We are not, as you would call it, gods; we are your brothers, and what we have to say is only for your consideration, not for you to believe. What you believe must come from within.

So Latwii is basically insinuating that Hatonn was on the verge of making a mistake and infringing on the will of the people, and then was suddenly moved to 8D?!

I find that kind of strange. Hasn't an 8D entity already balanced love/wisdom and therefore never contemplate infringement on free will.

Then on 01.01.15 Ra comes claiming a need for diversity of experience in channeling, and a different slant on the information.

Quote:I am Ra. I have not spoken through this instrument before. We had to wait until she was precisely tuned, as we send a narrow band vibration. We greet you in the love and in the light of our infinite Creator.

We have watched your group. We have been called to your group, for you have a need for the diversity of experiences in channeling which go with a more intensive, or as you might call it, advanced approach to the system of studying the pattern of the illusions of your body, your mind, and your spirit, which you call seeking the truth. We hope to offer you a somewhat different slant upon the information which is always and ever the same.

Next Ra gives an account of their contact with the peoples of ancient Egypt, when they made the same mistake that Hatonn was about to make.

Quote:We have walked your planet. We have seen the faces of your peoples. This is not so with many of the entities of the Confederation. We found that it was not efficacious, however we now feel the great responsibility of staying in the capacity of removing the distortions and powers that have been given to the Law of One.

he identity of the vibration Ra is our identity. We as a group, or what you would call a social memory complex, made contact with a race of your planetary kind which you call Egyptians. Others from our density made contact at the same time in South America, and the so-called “lost cities” were their attempts to contribute to the Law of One.

We spoke to one who heard and understood and was in a position to decree the Law of One. However, the priests and peoples of that era quickly distorted our message, robbing it of the, shall we say, compassion with which unity is informed by its very nature. Since it contains all, it cannot abhor any.

When we were no longer able to have appropriate channels through which to enunciate the Law of One, we removed ourselves from the now hypocritical position which we had allowed ourselves to be placed in.

Ra then makes is a point to say they are not concerned with the physical details of the upcoming harvest.

Quote:The changes are very, very trivial. We do not concern ourselves with the conditions which bring about harvest.

This whole sequence suggests some kind of intervention on behalf of the Confederation.

All very interesting! I'm curious to know if there is any commentary from L/L Research on what they think happened here.

Interesting stuff. Thanks for digging it up.

Quote:

Quote:Thus, Hatonn has moved [to the] eighth or final or covering layer or dimension of this particular octave, stretched itself until it covers the entire planet and is tuning in and attempting to ameliorate by love that particular vibration which is doing the most harm to your peoples. This is a vibration of thought, not of deed.

So Latwii is basically insinuating that Hatonn was on the verge of making a mistake and infringing on the will of the people, and then was suddenly moved to 8D?!

I find that kind of strange. Hasn't an 8D entity already balanced love/wisdom and therefore never contemplate infringement on free will.

Ra said that each density has eight sub-densities. Maybe Latwii meant that Hatonn had moved to the eighth sub-density of third density. I agree with you that a truly eighth-density entity, which will have already rejoined the Creator, would be unlikely to make such an effort.

(06-02-2010, 10:08 PM)βαθμιαίος Wrote: [ -> ]Interesting stuff. Thanks for digging it up.

Quote:

Quote:Thus, Hatonn has moved [to the] eighth or final or covering layer or dimension of this particular octave, stretched itself until it covers the entire planet and is tuning in and attempting to ameliorate by love that particular vibration which is doing the most harm to your peoples. This is a vibration of thought, not of deed.

So Latwii is basically insinuating that Hatonn was on the verge of making a mistake and infringing on the will of the people, and then was suddenly moved to 8D?!

I find that kind of strange. Hasn't an 8D entity already balanced love/wisdom and therefore never contemplate infringement on free will.

Ra said that each density has eight sub-densities. Maybe Latwii meant that Hatonn had moved to the eighth sub-density of third density. I agree with you that a truly eighth-density entity, which will have already rejoined the Creator, would be unlikely to make such an effort.

Exactly, as if incarnating here.

Thanks for sharing.

I like the post. I've also found it reallyyy interesting reading up on sessions that lead up to the Ra contact, or even just comparing now-sessions to sessions long ago.
It's funny Hatonn was willing to go so drastically into our society's consciousness in order to help, it's like they love us so much that they were willing to do anything to help, even when their actions may have been misguided by Love alone without the sense of Wisdom. Still though, I appreciate their drive to help. I can only hope to be so loving when we are a social memory complex.

In the late 1970s there was a broadcast hijack of television whereby a message that seemingly came from a possible 'not of this world' source took place.

http://www.disclose.tv/forum/incredible-...41646.html

Tenet Nosce, that is some truly excellent research you have done in opening up this thread. I found it extremely useful. Thank you for connecting the dots. This is actually quite an excellent topic/thread. Not sure why it is not generating the attention it deserves.

(01-28-2011, 02:53 AM)Peregrinus Wrote: [ -> ]In the late 1970s there was a broadcast hijack of television whereby a message that seemingly came from a possible 'not of this world' source took place.

http://www.disclose.tv/forum/incredible-...41646.html

I listened to the broadcast on YouTube after reading the text provided in the link. It is quite astounding. Thanks for bringing it to notice.

Tenet Nosce, AMAZING catch. Peregrinus too. What a crazy space drama we're in the middle of, most people not even knowing.

(01-28-2011, 02:53 AM)Peregrinus Wrote: [ -> ]In the late 1970s there was a broadcast hijack of television whereby a message that seemingly came from a possible 'not of this world' source took place.

http://www.disclose.tv/forum/incredible-...41646.html

Awhile back I saw the film "Santo vs. The Martian Invasion" (1966) which showed how the masked Mexican wrestler saved us all from a terrible fate. In that film the Martians took over the national TV service in Mexico to get their message out. [Message was STO, but their means were STS.]

I wonder if the Ashtar Galactic Command got their idea from watching Sci-Fi films? I wonder if they watch our TV programming?

I wonder if Hatonn had been doing a little of that?

(01-28-2011, 02:53 AM)Peregrinus Wrote: [ -> ]In the late 1970s there was a broadcast hijack of television whereby a message that seemingly came from a possible 'not of this world' source took place.

http://www.disclose.tv/forum/incredible-...41646.html

In the new videos posted showing Don and Carla on "Open Up" Don spoke about this and he said he had determined this to be a transmission of earthly origin. He never said why though. I hope i'm remembering this correctly...

It makes me wonder about all the other plans tha have been stalled and the effect dramatic displays and messages might've had in terms of the number of people open and actively looking into UFO-spirituality.

(02-05-2011, 06:37 PM)Ens Entium Wrote: [ -> ]In the new videos posted showing Don and Carla on "Open Up" Don spoke about this and he said he had determined this to be a transmission of earthly origin. He never said why though. I hope i'm remembering this correctly...

Perhaps because of the "alien's" British accent and the message's theatrical audio background?

(01-27-2011, 09:43 PM)NegaNova Wrote: [ -> ]It's funny Hatonn was willing to go so drastically into our society's consciousness in order to help, it's like they love us so much that they were willing to do anything to help, even when their actions may have been misguided by Love alone without the sense of Wisdom.

Seems classic green level.

Lee

(02-06-2011, 01:21 PM)kycahi Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-27-2011, 09:43 PM)NegaNova Wrote: [ -> ]It's funny Hatonn was willing to go so drastically into our society's consciousness in order to help, it's like they love us so much that they were willing to do anything to help, even when their actions may have been misguided by Love alone without the sense of Wisdom.

Seems classic green level.

What's even funnier is how, presumably, 4D is infinitely more wise than 3D.
And, even with millions of years of evolution in consciousness beyond 3D, they would lack sufficient wisdom for what seems like an obvious ethical judgment call. Or perhaps 4D is not capable of (philosophically) more wisdom than 3D, or 3D is capable of more wisdom than 4D.

Because the 4D entity is made up of all the lives/experiences it has had, it contains the distillation from those lives, meaning a naive level of wisdom, however... 4D is so thick of love/bliss/peace (like 3D is so full of being lost), to think comparatively in 3D terms, any decision in 4D would be like making a decision while having an orgasm in 3D. The feelings in 4D just don't lend themselves to rationality as we might expect in 3D.

(02-06-2011, 01:41 PM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ]

(02-06-2011, 01:21 PM)kycahi Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-27-2011, 09:43 PM)NegaNova Wrote: [ -> ]It's funny Hatonn was willing to go so drastically into our society's consciousness in order to help, it's like they love us so much that they were willing to do anything to help, even when their actions may have been misguided by Love alone without the sense of Wisdom.

Seems classic green level.

What's even funnier is how, presumably, 4D is infinitely more wise than 3D.
And, even with millions of years of evolution in consciousness beyond 3D, they would lack sufficient wisdom for what seems like an obvious ethical judgment call. Or perhaps 4D is not capable of (philosophically) more wisdom than 3D, or 3D is capable of more wisdom than 4D.

I think it's has to do in Hatonn and others as well 3d process, because our 3d evolution have been harder because of the thicker veil and our unique condition here. i believe that we will be a more balance 4d graduates at least in comparation from others new 4d graduates..

(02-06-2011, 03:28 PM)Peregrinus Wrote: [ -> ]Because the 4D entity is made up of all the lives/experiences it has had, it contains the distillation from those lives, meaning a naive level of wisdom, however...

Hatonn is a SMC, composed of millions of 4D entities from different logoi. As we've had a few great philosophers in our time, I'd imagine Hatonn would have thousands more. It would seem that these voices had been 'voted down'. Or perhaps what we know of Hatonn was filtered through the channeler's worldview, complete with the associated biases and desires.

(02-06-2011, 03:28 PM)Peregrinus Wrote: [ -> ]4D is so thick of love/bliss/peace (like 3D is so full of being lost), to think comparatively in 3D terms, any decision in 4D would be like making a decision while having an orgasm in 3D. The feelings in 4D just don't lend themselves to rationality as we might expect in 3D.

We know for sure that 4D rationality is based on different principles of mind. 3D analogies to actual 4D psychological processes could be very misleading, don't you think? That said, I'd think almost the opposite from your analogy. That is, there would be more aspects available for consideration in 4D, with less distraction from emotion, and more appreciation for cause/effect. My comment was based on the session's translation and what that could mean philosophically.

(02-07-2011, 11:49 PM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ]Hatonn is a Social Memory Complex, composed of millions of 4D entities from different logoi. As we've had a few great philosophers in our time, I'd imagine Hatonn would have thousands more. It would seem that these voices had been 'voted down'. Or perhaps what we know of Hatonn was filtered through the channeler's worldview, complete with the associated biases and desires.

Philosophers by the millions not of Earth would not understand Earth. Their judgment/understandings would be very much different from the extreme duality of Earth, as we know Earth has been an experiment in Creation like no other. The only beings to have visiting success on Earth so far were the Pleadians, and their success might be written off to one of luck and odds. Ra surely had no luck.

(02-07-2011, 11:49 PM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ]We know for sure that 4D rationality is based on different principles of mind. 3D analogies to actual 4D psychological processes could be very misleading, don't you think? That said, I'd think almost the opposite from your analogy. That is, there would be more aspects available for consideration in 4D, with less distraction from emotion, and more appreciation for cause/effect. My comment was based on the session's translation and what that could mean philosophically.

I do agree with you brother. 3D analogies on 4D might be inaccurate, but they are what we have at this time whilst in 3D with this somewhat veiled state. 4D rationalities? Like a school boy on his way home after his first kiss, only thousands of times stronger... 4D rationality is irrational; that is love

(02-06-2011, 01:41 PM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ]What's even funnier is how, presumably, 4D is infinitely more wise than 3D.
And, even with millions of years of evolution in consciousness beyond 3D, they would lack sufficient wisdom for what seems like an obvious ethical judgment call. Or perhaps 4D is not capable of (philosophically) more wisdom than 3D, or 3D is capable of more wisdom than 4D.

Ra made naive decisions, remember their work in Egypt? I'd imagine similar mistakes can be made by 4D complexes.

(02-08-2011, 04:18 AM)abridgetoofar Wrote: [ -> ]

(02-06-2011, 01:41 PM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ]What's even funnier is how, presumably, 4D is infinitely more wise than 3D.
And, even with millions of years of evolution in consciousness beyond 3D, they would lack sufficient wisdom for what seems like an obvious ethical judgment call. Or perhaps 4D is not capable of (philosophically) more wisdom than 3D, or 3D is capable of more wisdom than 4D.

Ra made naive decisions, remember their work in Egypt? I'd imagine similar mistakes can be made by 4D complexes.

This is an interesting point. Maybe Ra made assumptions based on their own (composite/aggregate/collective) 3D experience of behavior? Probably not, as they can rapidly assess the evolutionary status of local consciousness. Presumably, they did see the 'probability vortices' presenting only a miniscule chance of success, but perhaps worthy of risk and effort due to a rather significant 'reward' if successful and balance-able distortion if unsuccessful.

(02-06-2011, 01:41 PM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ]

(02-06-2011, 01:21 PM)kycahi Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-27-2011, 09:43 PM)NegaNova Wrote: [ -> ]It's funny Hatonn was willing to go so drastically into our society's consciousness in order to help, it's like they love us so much that they were willing to do anything to help, even when their actions may have been misguided by Love alone without the sense of Wisdom.

Seems classic green level.

What's even funnier is how, presumably, 4D is infinitely more wise than 3D.
And, even with millions of years of evolution in consciousness beyond 3D, they would lack sufficient wisdom for what seems like an obvious ethical judgment call. Or perhaps 4D is not capable of (philosophically) more wisdom than 3D, or 3D is capable of more wisdom than 4D.

Maybe this belongs in a different thread. I was unclear about the seven levels of consciousness so went through the books with my highlighter and looked for every mention of them. Then I went over all of that and came up with my version, my words:

The Seven Levels of Consciousness
I assigned minerals (i.e. rocks) up to viruses into 1D, plants and animals to 2D (with those that mate for life getting ready to graduate), and people to 3D.

I never presumed to put the higher entities into levels, but from the discussion here it looks like Hatonn would go into 4D, "classic green." I might have guessed Ra as very high 4D, but the Material says they are 5D and I won't disagree (though I'm tempted to put them near the beginner stage).

For what it's worth, I say that the seven levels are nested, many times. For example the first seven years of life are very little awareness, especially the first year. Each subsequent year is another level. These are, then, years zero to six.

7 to 13 are the awareness of self years, when we develop our own identity.

14 to 20 are awareness of others. Usually age 14 corresponds to 9th Grade, and I'll bet you remember how significant that year was. Some girls start acting like little sluts and boys think about gangs. Many in both sexes in these years take team sports very seriously.

Age 21, in my life, was when many of us took up politics in order to make big changes in society. In other word, compassion.

It's been years, but I remember Carla labeling 4th level as "Love," but I think that compassion is not the same as love. After all, Love and Light are the One Infinite. OTOH an example of STO compassion is "Oh, you poor thing, let me help you." An example of STS compassion might be, "Stand on your own two feet! Don't be a whiner!"

Tempering compassion with wisdom might lead to tough love, knowing that just giving handouts can lead to dependence instead of progress. These are 3D concepts applied to 4D because it's all that I have to work with.

I've gone on enough in this thread, sorry, but I wanted to explain why I saw Hatonn as green level.

First off... I hadn't realized there was new activity on this thread. So my apologies for dropping my own thread.

So here's an interesting development, from the latest "Matthew's Message".

Quote:7. According to Hatonn, serious consideration is being given to a dramatic display of spacecraft and a simultaneous special bulletin on radio and television stating that the crews have come in peace and will land to assist us in ways that will be enumerated. Discussions are ongoing about the risks of “surprise” vs. the risks of waiting until safety can be absolutely assured for all involved.

Sounds like Hatonn hasn't learned his great lesson in wisdom yet!

---

---

In response to the side-discussion on densities:

According to my understanding, the dominant vibration in 4D is love, and the dominant vibration in 5D is wisdom. These two vibrations are harmonized in 6D.

Based on that, I would say that it sounds like Hatonn is coming from an early 4D time/space. Although possibly there is some negative influence from 5D which is manifesting as impulsiveness and an overwillingness to "fix" things.

It is easy to witness this kind of early 4D naivete in many New Age groups. On the surface, everything is Love and Light, but under the hood is a different story. Or I also think of things like large groups of people organizing a run "for the cure" oblivious of the fact that their donation money goes straight to the very beast that profits the most from cancer.

5D is more like the "wait and see" density to me. Lots of observation and little action. But when action is taken, it is swift and decisive. At any rate, it looks like Hatonn has been lobbying for some sort of mass landing for at least 30 years... so somebody else must not be buying the idea?

Personally, I would be very skeptical about any so-called ETs stepping off of a spaceship claiming to have arrived from a distant star. I "believe" in ETs... I just don't think they fly around outer space in large metallic ships.

In my opinion, anybody who would land en masse on Earth has been here all along, hiding out in subterranean places, or at most on the moon or Mars.

To me an "Alien Rescue" scenario would be just as much an attempt at mass manipulation as an "Alien Invasion" scenario.

(06-20-2011, 08:02 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: [ -> ]Based on that, I would say that it sounds like Hatonn is coming from an early 4D time/space. Although possibly there is some negative influence from 5D which is manifesting as impulsiveness and an overwillingness to "fix" things.

identifying 5d with negative is incorrect.

5d has positive, and negative polarities.

(06-20-2011, 08:59 PM)unity100 Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-20-2011, 08:02 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: [ -> ]Based on that, I would say that it sounds like Hatonn is coming from an early 4D time/space. Although possibly there is some negative influence from 5D which is manifesting as impulsiveness and an overwillingness to "fix" things.

identifying 5d with negative is incorrect.

5d has positive, and negative polarities.

You are right. I didn't mean it that way. I meant a 5D/neg influence.

(01-27-2011, 09:43 PM)NegaNova Wrote: [ -> ]I like the post. I've also found it reallyyy interesting reading up on sessions that lead up to the Ra contact, or even just comparing now-sessions to sessions long ago.
It's funny Hatonn was willing to go so drastically into our society's consciousness in order to help, it's like they love us so much that they were willing to do anything to help, even when their actions may have been misguided by Love alone without the sense of Wisdom. Still though, I appreciate their drive to help. I can only hope to be so loving when we are a social memory complex.

well i really don't want us to be as unwise. it freaks me out these higher beings can be so naive. why can't we do wisdom and love all at once? it's like we're supposed to go through somekinda stupid phase. that lasts MILLIONS OF YEARS. and then what do we get for it? well hopefully by the end we haven't gone on international tv on some 3D planet and given the elderly there a heart attack thus causing us to spend more time in stupid phase to alleviate the karma and all this bullcrap. i'm starting to question the whole structure of the creation.:@

Each density has its own lessons. The lessons of 4D is love, yes, but even Ra had difficulty to describe exactly what 4th density is. And perhaps "blind" (=without wisdom), unconditional love is foolish being in 3D? But 3D has other lessons, and that is 50 + 1% service to others, or 95+% service to self, plus working with red, orange and yellow nexi, finding its way to green. That's how I interpret it anyway. Then we'll graduate and see what happens. It is difficult to imagine how it will be later, and perhaps not given to understand it fully either just quite yet.

The picture of Hatonn in this thread is also somehow not fair, in my view. I would also like to provide the below statement of Hatonn:

Hatonn Wrote:Even a small percentage of those who dwell upon your planet is a vast number, and this is our mission, to act through groups such as this one in order to disseminate information in such a fashion that it may be accepted or rejected, that it may be in a state lacking what the people of your planet choose to call proof.

We offer them no concrete proof, as they have a way of expressing it. We offer them Truth. This is an important function of our mission—to offer Truth without proof. In this way, the motivation will, in each and every case, come from within the individual. In this way, the individual vibratory rate will be increased. An offering of proof or an impressing of this Truth upon an individual in such a way that he would be forced to accept it would have no usable effect upon his vibratory rate. This, then, my friends, is the mystery of our way of approaching your peoples.

And there are two quotes that make me smile each time I read them:

Hatonn Wrote:He [Man on Earth] has become hypnotized by his playthings and his ideas. He is but a child in his mind.

Hatonn Wrote:These very words, my friends, have been spoken to you before, and yet you cling to that physical body and those physical surroundings as though your spirit were attached quite permanently to them.

Hi Ankh,

Thanks for sharing those additional quotes. I am curious to know where they came from as there are multiple sources for Hatonn. That last quote I posted was from Suzy Ward, not L/L Research. That may or may not matter.

For clarity, I am not meaning to "Hatonn bash" with this thread. I just think it is interesting and wanted to put an interpretation out there. It still seems to me like there was some kind of "Intervention" by Ra. Which would make sense based on what we know... who better to step in then those who have seen the folly in not tempering love with wisdom?

---

(06-21-2011, 03:16 AM)Oceania Wrote: [ -> ]well i really don't want us to be as unwise. it freaks me out these higher beings can be so naive. why can't we do wisdom and love all at once? it's like we're supposed to go through somekinda stupid phase. that lasts MILLIONS OF YEARS. and then what do we get for it? well hopefully by the end we haven't gone on international tv on some 3D planet and given the elderly there a heart attack thus causing us to spend more time in stupid phase to alleviate the karma and all this bullcrap. i'm starting to question the whole structure of the creation.:@

I know it can seem frustrating sometimes to think of this whole vast expanse of existence/awareness and wonder if you will ever "arrive". It can also be quite liberating, depending on how you look at it.

The densities are a continuum, but they are not linear. You can absolutely work on the lessons of wisdom simultaneously with those of love. What is more, you can do that right here in plain ol' 3D.

I am the kind of person who likes to look ahead and see the big picture. I enjoy looking at our current situation in the context of the entire octave of densities.

Yes, we are moving from 3D to 4D. This is wonderful, but by no means the end of the journey. And of course, the lessons of 4D are going to contain many pitfalls and speed traps and it is entirely possible that a civilization could spend millions of years somewhere in early to middle fourth density, eventually becoming just as oblivious to the next step as many of Earth's 3D inhabitants are right now.

The thing that I feel is important for people to understand during this transitional time is that a person from a 4D civilization is not necessarily much more spiritually advanced than your average Joe.

Sure, they might have "special powers" or advanced communication and technology, but that doesn't mean they have the answer to "Life, the Universe, and Everything" [which incidentally is 42 ;-0].

This is the first stumbling block that I see for a civilization entering into a 4D vibration. It is this idea that we have "arrived" and that whomever we meet there has all the answers for us. In my mind, this is the path that eventually leads to a 4D world that is polarized to the negative.

Hello brother,

All the quotes that I provided are from the Introduction in the Book I of the Ra material:

http://www.llresearch.org/library/the_la...book_1.pdf

By the way, how did you come up with the interpretation that it was an intervention by Ra, and not something that Hatonn themselves found/came to conclusion to, after a while?

(06-21-2011, 01:22 PM)Ankh Wrote: [ -> ]Hello brother,

All the quotes that I provided are from the Introduction in the Book I of the Ra material:

http://www.llresearch.org/library/the_la...book_1.pdf

By the way, how did you come up with the interpretation that it was an intervention by Ra, and not something that Hatonn themselves found/came to conclusion to, after a while?

Thanks!

That was just the impression I got when I first read the material. I don't really have any strong evidence one way or another. I suppose both interpretations could be true simultaneously?

It is just very curious to me that there was such an abrupt transition in the contact and material. As far as I know, it was a surprise to L/L Research. They did not ask for a new contact- hence an intervention?

When I think about the first Ra contact in the context of previous material I just get the impression that Ra was kind of saying, "Never mind about Hatonn's plans right now... in fact here is what happened when we tried something similar long ago..."

---

I think these quotes by Hatonn, just a couple of paragraphs before the quotes you provided, give an important clue as to their attitude:

Hatonn Wrote:There is going to be a Harvest, as you might call it, a harvest of souls that will shortly occur upon your planet. We are attempting to extract the greatest possible harvest from this planet. This is our mission, for we are the Harvesters.

Who elected Hatonn to be the Harvesters? I will gladly harvest myself, thank you very much. ;-)

Quote:Those above this level are of course not of as great an interest to us since they have, you might say, already made the grade.

Now compare this to the two quotes from Ra that refer to increasing the harvest:

Ra Wrote:Thus, the entry into the vibration of love, sometimes called by your people the vibration of understanding, is not effective with your present societal complex. Thus, the harvest shall be such that many will repeat the third-density cycle. The energies of your Wanderers, your teachers, and your adepts at this time are all bent upon increasing the harvest. However, there are few to harvest.

Quote:There are several reasons for incarnation during harvest. They may be divided by the terms self and other-self.

The overriding reason for the offering of these Brothers and Sisters of Sorrow in incarnative states is the possibility of aiding other-selves by the lightening of the planetary consciousness distortions and the probability of offering catalyst to other-selves which will increase the harvest.

There are two other reasons for choosing this service which have to do with the self.

The Wanderer, if it remembers and dedicates itself to service, will polarize much more rapidly than is possible in the far more etiolated realms of higher density catalyst.

The final reason is within the mind/body/spirit totality or the social memory complex totality which may judge that an entity or members of a societal entity can make use of third-density catalyst to recapitulate a learning/teaching which is adjudged to be less than perfect. This especially applies to those entering into and proceeding through sixth-density wherein the balance between compassion and wisdom is perfected.

To me, there seems to be a clear distinction here. Hatonn is trying to increase the Harvest. (Not that there is anything wrong with that.) Ra, on the other hand, seems to downplay the significance of attempting to increase the Harvest.

Also I think it is interesting that Hatonn specifically says that they are not concerned with those of a higher vibration than themselves in the light of Ra's comment about having to recapitulate lessons, especially those involving the balance of compassion and wisdom.

Ultimately, all of this speculation is self-referential. There is little outside the Ra material itself to use as a context for interpreting these kinds of messages. However, given that, it still seems to me that Hatonn is an example of just that kind of mentality that is heavily distorted toward compassion, while perhaps lacking in wisdom.

My brother, I am not sure what you are trying to say here. That Hatonn is distorted towards compassion? Well, they are of 4th positive density, so I hope that they are distorted in that ray. To address the previous discussion that we had - I have a belief that thoughts can be seen and perceived in the Confederation. The thoughts of elderly brothers and sisters might have been seen by Hatonn, who then realized that it perhaps not was so wise to do whatever you think they were about to do. We all have our guardians. We have them. Hatonn have them. And Ra have them. About Hatonn being Harvesters - except that they work hard to provide the love vibration to this love starving planet, I bet also that many humans will cry with gratitude towards them while struggling with these steps of light, or whatever one is doing when death occurs nowdays.

i think Hatonn meant us as in the spiritual peeps who assist us. we do need assisting.