Bring4th

Hello everyone,

I'd like to ask for your advice and your thoughts about one topic.

My daughter is 9,5 years old. Her use of iPad/iPhone/TV has escalated and nowdays she brings most of her time with one of these devices, sometimes even using several of them at the same time! Would it be up to her, she would always had one of these things with her, when eating, brushing her teeth, and hair, dressing up, when in bed etc.

I'm trying to raise her following the Law of One, as much as I can, and have as spiritual life as possible. So, when I take a decision that involves her, I really have to think through this decision, in order to be able to explain it to her. All the "whys" and "why nots" need to be explained, and understood by her. Most of my decisions she agrees with cause she understands them. There is no "cause I told you so"s at this home.

So, about her use of iPhones/iPads/TVs... Ra said that for the most part this gadget (TV in 80s, but nowdays there are even worse devices than TV) is a device for distraction and sleep. And I totally agree! So I am considering to set up some rules here at home, in order to reduce her use of these devices.

Buuuut on the other hand, what about her free will? We have talked a lot about the free will, and how important it is to respect it, which is what I am consciously trying to do here. The only times when I infringe on it is when her life/health is in danger, or when there is infringement upon the free will of another self.

In this matter, her health and life, or free will of another self, is not in danger.

So, my question is, if I set up these rules to reduce her use of these devices – am I in this case controlling? Am I infringing on her free will? Cause Ra also said, that in those cases where people wished to sleep, one can only offer comforts designed for the sleeping. Service is only possible to the extent it is requested. In this light, setting up rules in order to reduce her use of these devices is not a "right" or positive thing to do perhaps? As I understand it?

Also, I need to think all this through so that I can explain to her my concerns and worries, and what it's all about...

I would appreciate your thoughts and advices in this matter.

Thank you!
/

Hi Ankh. I'm sure you know that I'm not a mom so of course take my advice with a grain of salt, but I do spend a lot of time thinking about children in society, and also was raised with many siblings/half-siblings/step siblings, my youngest sibling is 15. So I try to pay attention.

First I'll give the applicable Ra quote, which I'm sure you know, but it may help unfurl some things just reading it, even.

Quote:42.20 Questioner: Thank you. Using the teach/learning relationship of parent to its child, what type of actions would demonstrate the activation of each energy center in sequence from red through violet?

Ra: I am Ra. This shall be the last full query of this working.

The entity, child or adult, as you call it, is not an instrument to be played. The appropriate teach/learning device of parent to child is the open-hearted beingness of the parent and the total acceptance of the beingness of the child. This will encompass whatever material the child entity has brought into the life experience in this plane.

There are two things especially important in this relationship other than the basic acceptance of the child by the parent. Firstly, the experience of whatever means the parent uses to worship and give thanksgiving to the One Infinite Creator, should if possible be shared with the child entity upon a daily basis, as you would say. Secondly, the compassion of parent to child may well be tempered by the understanding that the child entity shall learn the biases of service to others or service to self from the parental other-self. This is the reason that some discipline is appropriate in the teach/learning. This does not apply to the activation of any one energy center for each entity is unique and each relationship with self and other-self doubly unique. The guidelines given are only general for this reason.

Is there a brief query before we leave this instrument?

So, Ra says it's paramount to offer the child open-hearted love and acceptance no matter what. I still don't have a smart phone, so watching children younger and younger get devices as such that they were attached to has disturbed me for a bit. However, at this point, the devices are so ubiquitous to society, and especially the younger peer/age group, that it would be a huge step outside of social norms for her to decide, on her own, to put the devices down - which may be a big moment for her, in the future.

That said, I think if it's a -constant- thing, an attempt at limiting her wouldn't necessarily be the most STS act you could do. Ra says a bit of discipline is needed on the path of polarity, and that's something that a child must be taught, as well (self-discipline). We often think the freest way to be is to act on all of our impulses. But really the freest way to be is to anticipate our impulses and create those that we want to act upon. Your daughter is constantly acting out the subconscious impulse to seek her devices, i.e. seek sleep. I mean, obviously you can't force her to use every moment to polarize, but a child plugged in almost all their waking hours has little opportunity to do so (presuming they are playing solo games more than actually communicating with others on their devices, though that will likely change over the next few years for her). I think you can also share with her your thoughts and opinions on proper amounts of device usage in a non-judgemental way, and also can try to steer her to other pursuits without it feeling like a "punishment" (good luck!!). Also, of course, you should set the example by doing things, on your own, and probably try to use your devices less. I have no idea how much you use them so disregard if it's not at all, but the truth is children constantly desire to mimic their parents. They see you pushing buttons on a neat little gadget that has your attention rapt, and they want that experience, too.

The other piece of Ra's advice might be the most important. Have you taught your daughter to meditate, or seek the Creator in any way? I think a daily ritual as suggested might be infinitely valuable, because that way she can learn to hear/trust her own instincts instead of relying on your judgements/decisions, and who knows, maybe after a month or two of daily meditation, her screen time will naturally diminish.

Good luck Ankh, I think this is an important topic and one I think about a lot.

I think the big issue here -which Jade touched on- is the sheer ubiquity of electronic devices in modern life. And barring something massive changing the entire social structure, they're likely to only become more numerous and utilized in the years to come. Blocking her from using them could create very real practical barriers in her life to come.

Also... Let's not forget that Ra said those things more than thirty years ago. Electronic gadgets circa 1980 were tape decks and televisions. The Internet is something totally different. It contains the vast majority of all human knowledge at this point, and offers plenty of opportunity for positive\spiritual stimulation as well. Not to mention allowing for instant communication with people all around the world in a way never before possible. Even in the realm of video games -which barely even existed when Ra was being channelled- the level of interactivity that many offer today allows them to create, in my opinion, at least small amounts of legitimate catalyst.

So my advice would be not to take the devices away, but to be more aware of how she's using them, and try to steer her towards more positive or spiritually-enriching uses of them. The online world can be a powerful stimulus for recognizing basic human unity and soforth, if used the right way.

my parents let me do pretty much w/e i wanted for however long i wanted. & i chose to watch *a lot* of tv. i could stay up all night watching tv if i wanted, at w/e age. for the fun of it, here's some of the shows i watched that come to mind:

are you afraid of the dark?
unsolved mysteries
home improvement
the fresh prince of bel-air
family matters
the wonder years
rugrats
saved by the bell
full house
all that
rocko's modern life
kenen & kel
malcom in the middle
the ren and stimpy show
the angry beavers
the secret world of alex mack
bevis and butthead
the wild thornberrys
catdog
hey arnold!
doug
aaahh!!! real monsters
beyond belief: fact or fiction
legends of the hidden temple
dr quinn medicine woman
sabrina the teenage witch
clarissa explains it all
what would you do?
xena warrior princess
walker, texas ranger
hercules: the legendary journeys
the adventures of pete & pete

i'd always eventually get burnt out on watching tv, though, & feel a need to get outside & do more active things.

i'd also spend countless hrs on a "sega saturn" video game console & nintendo but with that too i'd also always eventually manage to start feeling tired of it & in need of long breaks. same with the internet, which i got around 11yrs of age, but i'd mainly use that for communication & educational purposes.

in my adult life, i have no desire to own a video game console or even a tv. i've been w/o those things my entire adult life so far. if i decide to have children i'll definitely provide those things for them, though, so they can have a choice in the matter.

nowadays i can no longer stand sitting still for much more than an hour - unless i'm meditating. when i watch movies i usually watch the 1st half one day & save the 2nd half for the next day. i have a smartphone but i mainly just use it as a flashlight (haha)...& to text msg. my kindle serves the purpose of a radio, mostly.

i'd encourage my children to not spend too much time watching non-educational tv shows & playing non-educational games but it's not something i could see myself making a requirement since i feel i wasn't harmed in any way from the insanely large amount of time i spent on such things as a child.

good luck to you!

https://blog.ifcj.org/post/israeli-dad-m...r-his-kids

In my view these devices are creations and tools. If your daugther enjoys using them and does not come to regret it herself at a later time, them there is no harm done.
While I get these devices induce sleep, so does the veil and yet your daugther chose a veiled experience.

I spent a great deal of my life playing video games and reading mangas and stuff. Nowadays I lost interest in video games whether alone or with others, yet kept on reading mangas because I enjoy these creations others make. I did not regret the time spent playing video games either.

If you truly desire to respect your daughter's free will, then I'd ask her Higher Self which way for you to act is more consonant with her path and lessons her soul is set to learn.

Thanks for your thoughts and advices, everyone!!

(04-14-2016, 09:53 AM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote: [ -> ]However, at this point, the devices are so ubiquitous to society, and especially the younger peer/age group, that it would be a huge step outside of social norms for her to decide, on her own, to put the devices down - which may be a big moment for her, in the future.

Thanks for this! Maybe she is too young to make decisions difficult as this one, i.e. to put down her devices by her own, and this is where I have to step in. But as I mentioned, I am not sure it is a "right" decision to do either. I am thinking this all through for now...

(04-14-2016, 09:53 AM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote: [ -> ]Ra says a bit of discipline is needed on the path of polarity, and that's something that a child must be taught, as well (self-discipline).  

In that quote the word "discipline" for me means in the way Ra suggested discipline in regards to the personality, i.e. know thyself, accept thyself, become the Creator. In our third density society though the word "discipline" has another meaning, more liken to "thou shall not". And I'm not sure what exactly Ra meant by that word in that sentence. If Don would only ask! But what do you mean by discipline? How do you interpret Ra's "discipline" in that sentence?

Anyways, I'm trying to raise her in a positive way, both in regards to her and mine polarity. So, as you mentioned elsewhere in your post, a talk to her about this is necessary. There will probably be even more than one talk. Not in a judgemental way, as you said, but in a way as to wake her up and make her more self conscious. Why does she use these devices so much? How do they make her feel? Or think? Is there really no other things to do other than using them? Etc.

(04-14-2016, 09:53 AM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote: [ -> ]Also, of course, you should set the example by doing things, on your own, and probably try to use your devices less. I have no idea how much you use them so disregard if it's not at all, but the truth is children constantly desire to mimic their parents. They see you pushing buttons on a neat little gadget that has your attention rapt, and they want that experience, too.

I agree! And I don't use these things much at all. If someone is calling and I'm busy, I let it ring. I will check the phone later, when I'm available. I was against getting an iPhone to the last moment. But when my old one broke, I got it. I'm happy with it, cause it does make my life easier. I can check emails and things like that in a sec using my iPhone, but on the other hand, I don't have an addiction to these things, and use it only when I am available. She on the other hand, does seem to have developed an addiction to these devices. And then we have her dad who is totally addicted to these things! You can't even have a short conversation with him without him constantly checking his iPhone. He uses these devices totally in a way of distraction and sleep. Even our daughter complains about it, saying that it's difficult to get his attention because of that. And that is something that I can't do anything about except to just talk with him, which is what I'm planning to do as soon as he will find some time for me (good luck, Lana!!). And so, since we have shared custody, she is with him 50% of her time.

(04-14-2016, 09:53 AM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote: [ -> ]The other piece of Ra's advice might be the most important. Have you taught your daughter to meditate, or seek the Creator in any way? I think a daily ritual as suggested might be infinitely valuable, because that way she can learn to hear/trust her own instincts instead of relying on your judgements/decisions, and who knows, maybe after a month or two of daily meditation, her screen time will naturally diminish.

Yes, Jade, we say grace before eating, and pray before going to sleep. We are meditating together, but it's more difficult for her to do that. But I will keep doing that! I do have some ideas too, for instance that perhaps if she leads a meditation, it will be easier for her. In that way, she can decide for how long it will be for instance, etc.

(04-14-2016, 12:20 PM)APeacefulWarrior Wrote: [ -> ]I think the big issue here -which Jade touched on- is the sheer ubiquity of electronic devices in modern life. And barring something massive changing the entire social structure, they're likely to only become more numerous and utilized in the years to come. Blocking her from using them could create very real practical barriers in her life to come.

Also... Let's not forget that Ra said those things more than thirty years ago. Electronic gadgets circa 1980 were tape decks and televisions. The Internet is something totally different. It contains the vast majority of all human knowledge at this point, and offers plenty of opportunity for positive\spiritual stimulation as well. Not to mention allowing for instant communication with people all around the world in a way never before possible. Even in the realm of video games -which barely even existed when Ra was being channelled- the level of interactivity that many offer today allows them to create, in my opinion, at least small amounts of legitimate catalyst.

So my advice would be not to take the devices away, but to be more aware of how she's using them, and try to steer her towards more positive or spiritually-enriching uses of them. The online world can be a powerful stimulus for recognizing basic human unity and soforth, if used the right way.

Thank you, APeacefulWarrior for your positive thoughts! I didn't think in this way.

You mentioned that being aware of how she uses them and trying to steer her towards more positive or spiritually enriching uses of them is your advice. But how to do that? I'm aware of how she uses them, and that is for games and watching a LOT (dumb) teenager-ish comedies from US. What shall I do here? Steering could also mean controlling... Telling her to not to watch what she wants, but instead watch what I find more proper for her...?

isis! That was my thought exactly in the beginning! To let her use these devices until she is so sick and tired of it, that she can't stand them! And maybe that is a right solution, I don't know. Or maybe it could also be a bad solution. Cause we are all diffirent, and maybe letting *her* to use these things without offering a thought or something, will make her more and more addcited, which will only make it harder for her in the future... But I don't know!

Minyatur, thank you so much! I will definitely try to contact her Higher Self for an advice on this matter! I didn't think of that, so thank you so much!

I think the way I take the way Ra uses the word "discipline" as "self-discipline" - again, a lot of times we think that we want to just act on our every impulse, but what we really want it to be able to refine our impulses to those that serve us and others the best. I think your line of questioning is a good start - how does using the devices make you feel? Are there other things you like doing more? I think anything that helps her be more aware of her actions is a good start. Otherwise, this is something I guess I haven't thought about (how to teach discipline to a child as opposed to disciplining a child!) so I'm not sure! I'm still learning to teach myself discipline!

Good luck Lana!! I think that you may have a good inroad - if she has complained about her dad's usage, maybe you can use that to show her how -you- feel when it's hard to get her attention. It might give her a little a-ha and a way to make the decision on her own. I also want to add too that I think that if you almost never tell your daughter no or what to do, that once in a great while is definitely not going to kill her, especially if you sincerely think it's what's best for her. I know this is a toughy. I think Miny's advice to ask your Higher self was probably the number 1 thing in this thread that will help you solve this problem.

Using these devices has some risks. I'm thinking about difficulties in concentrating and cognitive overstimulation. Being glued to a screen all day is making us all a bit more attention deficit which is possibly a huge problem especially since meditation, focusing deeply and generally calming the mind is necessary on the spiritual path.

This is a tough issue, Ankh! I bet many parents struggle with the same basic issue these days, and I think your daughter is probably very lucky to have a mother with these spiritual considerations. I bet that you are part of the first generation of parents that will really have to figure out how to approach this issue compassionately. I don't think I'll have children in this life and probably won't need to deal with these issues, but I can look back on how similar use of technology effected my own life growing up.

Computer technology has been a part of my life since I was a small child, and when I was younger I was basically glued to video games, TV, and internet. The issue you talk about is even more pervasive, I think, especially because of tablets and smart phones. A smart phone allows us basically 24/7 access to this technology. When I was younger, there was a lot of access, but I'd still be forced to take breaks because everything was basically left at home. We can take smart phones in cars or public transport, to restaurants, to social gatherings, and even to bed.

But, looking back at my own strong draw towards technology, I owe a lot of my own practical skills to the time I spent with technology. I gained a lot of cognitive patterns and learned to adapt to new technologies very easily because of how involved I was in new technology and how much time I spent with it. At a certain point, I found myself doing very productive things with the access I had. Through middle school and high school, I learned how to do a lot through the internet. I learned a lot about web development, graphic design, video editing, and even social interaction because of how I elected to spend my time on the internet, with little guidance from my parents.

Though perhaps I was lucky enough to be drawn to certain communities and ideas that led me down this path. I'm sure many have spent a lot of time in "sleep" because of these technologies.

(04-15-2016, 05:43 AM)Ankh Wrote: [ -> ]You mentioned that being aware of how she uses them and trying to steer her towards more positive or spiritually enriching uses of them is your advice. But how to do that? I'm aware of how she uses them, and that is for games and watching a LOT (dumb) teenager-ish comedies from US. What shall I do here? Steering could also mean controlling... Telling her to not to watch what she wants, but instead watch what I find more proper for her...?  

I like the sentiment in this thread to not remove access, as I think that children who grow up with an intimate relationship to modern technology will be very well-equipped to adapt to future advances in technology. Technology is becoming such an integral part of our lives that being adept at using technology offers a great benefit to navigating our society.

But I'm equally lost at how to "steer" someone in a certain direction. However, perhaps you can try to help her utilize what she naturally is drawn to in order to show her how these things can be used for self-discovery? For instance, even though those dumb comedies from the US (we're good at that stuff) are probably not the most spiritually aware expressions, there can still be a lot to learn about ourselves through them. You could talk to her about them, ask her why she likes them, figure out what it is in her unconscious impulses that draws her to them. If she thinks something is really funny, maybe ask her why she thinks it's funny. Not in a way that is critical, but rather just out of curious questioning. Perhaps see if she identifies with certain characters or situations and ask what it is about these things that makes her like them. Then maybe you can start a dialogue where you can gently guide her to introspection and discovering her inner-self. Or, at the very least, establish a habit and tool set where she understands that we can learn about ourselves simply by examining those the biases we have. This is not something I understood until I found the Law of One.

Though I think it should be mentioned that a lot of "mindless" games are probably not very useful for this. It's good to know that games like this take advantage of our psychology to addict us. When we accomplish something in a game, even just something simple, our physical brains will treat it as a success and release signals of gratification. The more gratification we get from a game, the more we are drawn to continue playing. It's a type of instant gratification that satisfies us, but I do think it keeps us in sleep, happy with clicking buttons on a screen rather than seeking the love of the Creator, which offers a much more significant and persistent type of gratification.

It's good to note that there are many, many games that are much more complex and challenge us in different ways, either through story or gameplay mechanics. We can explore ideas of morality, mortality, cause and effect, social dynamics, and a slew of other social issues through being actively involved in a game's story, more-so than with other artistic media, I think. There are also many games with mechanics that can help us develop types of cognitive functions in managing things in life, responding to stressful situations, handling high loads of stimulus, and basically expanding our brain's ability to process various things. But there are also many games which offer none of this. Most games played on tablets or phones I think fall into the latter category of offering little but instant gratification (which is fine in moderation).

So maybe, if you are considering limiting her time with certain things somehow, it's my personal opinion that limiting access to these types of games might be the most beneficial.

For what it's worth, I think when Ra talks about discipline, they almost always are talking about discipline of the personality, or some form of that. But in this passage:

Quote:Secondly, the compassion of parent to child may well be tempered by the understanding that the child entity shall learn the biases of service to others or service to self from the parental other-self. This is the reason that some discipline is appropriate in the teach/learning.

I do think it is possible they are talking more about that discipline set by the parent for the child is appropriate. Probably not discipline in the sense of punishment, but rather setting boundaries and compelling the child towards certain paths and understanding. But as always, it is my interpretation, and even then I think it is only a possible interpretation, not one I think for sure was Ra's intention.

In my opinion the most important thing to think about when it comes to children is to make sure you raise them with positive reinforcement. The more control you input into the children the more the children will grow controlling themselves and feeling controlled by their environnement. It is more useful for an entity to experience and learn from life by themselves. Controlling the amount of experience and catalyst for your child will not do anything positive. Those gadgets are part of the new generations. I think the best you can do is teach them what are the effects of technology and then set them free so they understand themselves what they have to understand about it. It is not useful to protect them too much either because it controls their learning process. I can totally understand the feeling but you must consider if what you want for your children is safety or happiness. Even with good intentions if there is too much control they will end up blaming you for their unhappiness. I don't think rules are really a healthy thing to do at all in any case with children. It is best for them to understand things by themselves than forcing them. The society is an excellent exemple that rules and prisons end up creating criminals and prisonners. The native americans didn't have any of that and didn't need them because they didn't have to live in the fear of the law. Like many things including relations, drugs, education, health, behavior, smoking, friends it is always best to let them experience and have their own conclusions. If you teach them well they will grow well. That is the role of a parent, to teach how to live freely and happily. You will also have a better relation with them if they can feel free with you.

I was thinking about this some more today, and I just thought about the fact that, when we take on the responsibility to care for entities that are less experienced on this life plane than we are, that we sometimes must take steps to protect them. I think about sweet Judy, and how before we had her, she lived the life of a wild and free country dog - most of her meals were live caught rodents (she was still very underfed), she's had some of her toes ripped off, and she's been shot multiple times. But she was free. Now, she's an indoor dog - she never goes outside without a leash and likely won't again. But, she benefits, because her life is more stable and predictable now - her meals are regular, her humans aren't emotionally unstable, she's much safer physically. We see her gratitude in being able to relax in ways that were impossible for her before. In a way, we have limited her, but in another way, we're allowing her a safe space to grow and become more of herself because she knows someone "above" her is watching out for her no matter what, and will protect her from things that would injure her or cause her troubles, that she wouldn't even know to see coming due to her lack of experience.

Anyway. This is just some more food for thought. I also think that it is almost impossible, no matter what you do, Lana, for you to do the wrong thing, because you will be sincerely acting out of love and support for your daughter's well-being, and not acting against her in a gut-reaction way because what she's doing irritates you, or whatnot. It's obvious that you just want to see her do and be her best. Device usage is a slippery slope, for sure.

Thanks for your advices, everyone! It's been really helpful to listen to all of you! 

This is indeed a tough issue and not so easily solved. And it reminds me of Ra's "there is no right or wrong". 

I truly don't have anything against the usage of iPad, iPhones, or computers by my kids, as long as they don't exaggerate with them. I mean, it's a normal thing nowadays, and sometimes this passion may develop into something more. I mean, look at my little brother, who started using my laptop when he was four years old and started playing video games. Now, he is a game developer working for Ubisoft, and he even helped the guys to create raid data recovery , which is one of the best data recovery systems.

(04-22-2022, 09:44 AM)oreliebumby11 Wrote: [ -> ]I truly don't have anything against the usage of iPad, iPhones, or computers by my kids, as long as they don't exaggerate with them. I mean, it's a normal thing nowadays, and sometimes this passion may develop into something more.

I don't think there is anything "wrong" with a child using an ipad in and of itself... however, I do feel a certain way when I see parents in public who "pacify" their children using tablets

(04-22-2022, 09:44 AM)oreliebumby11 Wrote: [ -> ]I truly don't have anything against the usage of iPad, iPhones, or computers by my kids, as long as they don't exaggerate with them.
I mean, it's a normal thing nowadays, and sometimes this passion may develop into something more.

That's the problem, that there are things that are "normal".

The Psychology of Addictive Smartphone Behavior in Young Adults: Problematic Use, Social Anxiety, and Depressive Stress

Excessive Smartphone Use Is Associated With Health Problems in Adolescents and Young Adults

...

Everything would be fine when there would be a "normal use".

When a mobile is used as a telephone when needed.
When a Smartphone is used as a mobile computer when it makes sense.

However, use that leads to psychological dependencies is problematic.


There was a nice geman article that analyzes the parallels to smoking:
Smartphones are the cigarettes of the 21st century

(04-24-2022, 03:44 AM)tadeus Wrote: [ -> ]Everything would be fine when there would be a "normal use".

I agree.

When I was a child, all my brother and I wanted to do every day was get outside and play, even in winter with below-zero temperatures. We were connected to the natural world. I see this as a major issue with digital-age children and people. The overuse and addiction to devices creates a disconnect with the natural world of life forms and the environment. This creates an imbalance, in my opinion.

There is also the issue of screen fatigue, which we know affects the eyes, and radiation. Prior to digital devices, parents often limited TV time for their kids, which is a rational idea. Now, I see little children everywhere engaged on tablets. Are they even seeing what is going on around them? Taking cues from the environment? Learning social behaviors from others? Interacting with people and other life forms? Do children learn about the natural environment on screens more than they do by walking in it, smelling and touching it, experiencing it, interacting with it? There is a difference between looking at a photo of ice cream and reading about what it is, and actually tasting ice cream.

There is also the idea of motor skills, muscles and tendon/ligament development, circulation, etc., and maintaining the health of, the body. How does that work when a child spends extended time with a device, using only certain hand movements? Hasn't that caused problems in adults in the form of carpal-tunnel syndrome, for example? When I see the new fawns each year they are constantly active, running around, bucking, stotting, using their bodies to move.

I see this as a problem in developmental growth. Going back to the idea of limiting TV time, I would think this might be implemented with digital-device time.

Pendulum will keep swinging, no matter what we do. In the end it must be an individual choice to either heed or ignore the teachings one is exposed to. As a father of two, I truly understand how hard it is sometimes. I understand now also why children are sometimes considered to be, shall I say, 'karma machines'. It doesn't seem to be a coincidence that I'm married to a professional child caretaker.