Bring4th

Yes, the ego is the focal point of consciousness.

Quote:

Quote:Questioner: Now these entities incarnate into a third-density vibratory body. I am trying to understand how this transition takes place from third to fourth-density...

Ra:... If a third-density entity were, shall we say, electrically aware of fourth-density in full, the third-density electrical fields would fail due to incompatibility.

DW: That right there is the death-blow (pun intended) to the gradualists. Sorry... I'm just trying to teach what the Law of One really says, whether we feel warm and fuzzy about it or not.

 

YOUR 3D BODY IS TRANSMUTED 

Ra even further drives the point home in the next sentence:

Quote:Ra: To answer your query about death, these entities will die according to third-density necessities...

DW: The transition of 3D to 4D is NOT gradualist. These quotes proves it. As I have since written, this form of "death" is a technicality -- a compromise Ra had to make in wording in describing transmutation.

I don't think he's shown this at all. People in 3D die according to 3D necessities, in the normal 3D way of dying. They are not fully aware of 4D until after that and reincarnation in new style bodies.

The time for people and all other life to die off and reincarnate is between 100 and 700 years.

When Ra said die according to 3D necessities, they did not mean transmute in a way we've never seen before here in 3D. Otherwise they would have said transmute. Ra has total command of the English language.

In one of the sessions, Ra actually said they don't know every word in the English language, so they wouldn't have total command of English. They were limited in scope to vocabulary of the ones they were working with.

(01-23-2011, 09:43 PM)artichoke Wrote: [ -> ]When Ra said die according to 3D necessities, they did not mean transmute in a way we've never seen before here in 3D. Otherwise they would have said transmute. Ra has total command of the English language.

Quote:85.15 Questioner: Thank you. Do you have use of all the words in the English language and, for that matter, all of the words in all of the languages that are spoken on this planet at this time?

Ra: I am Ra. No.

http://lawofone.info/results.php?session...c=1&ss=1#2

Quote:21.2 Questioner: Do you use the instrument’s vocabulary or your own vocabulary to communicate with us?

Ra: I am Ra. We use the vocabulary of the language with which you are familiar. This is not the instrument’s vocabulary. However, this particular mind/body/spirit complex retains the use of a sufficiently large number of sound vibration complexes that the distinction is often without any importance.

Hi forums,

I happened into a three-way discussion on the topic of gradual vs non-gradual harvest with two other selves who had interesting perspectives to share. One was Scott Mandelker, the other Jody Boyne, both long time students of the Law of One with many years of service to wanderers and spiritual seekers.

I personally contributed little to the discussion as I’m not well informed one way or the other. I was more interested to see what they had to share.

Given that this topic has been discussed in great detail here, I thought it would have a nice home in this thread.

This new section begins at post 65 and concludes at post 70. Enjoy!

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Jody wrote: My sense from the material [Ra + Q’uo] is that transition is gradual over several generations, so I suggest to those I do communicate with that they prepare in human terms for a radically and abruptly simplified existence as the current earth society collapses, primarily due to resource shortages, especially energy which currently powers all human activities.

I suggest they look to the Transition and Relocalization movements for viable perspectives and information, ie, life without oil, gas, cars, electricity, electrically-run modern medical care, grocery stores, manufactured products, etc. Per capita energy production peaked in 1979 and has been on a bumpy plateau until 2008, when it began a steep downslope. What we see in the financial / economic news are those in power grabbing what they can as they cut off services and supports to the rest of us. There will be no return to business as usual. It would be nice to think we'll 'beam out' before rustic life becomes necessary, but it seems wanderers are here for that part of transition as well. So pastoral living skills are what's needed at this point.

When the overall Ra and Q'uo material on transition is taken into account, I think it's clear that a gradual transition is what's described and makes the most sense in both physics and evolutionary terms. I'd be very pleased to be wrong, but people thought Jesus was coming in the year 1000 and stopped planting etc, which wasn't helpful for them.

Ra often used the analogy of the way light through a prism breaks into the colors of the rainbow, and I had been fascinated by that as a kid, and used to close one eye so as to see one narrow part of a ray at a time and try to see the center of each color, what Ra called the 'true color'.

From true color yellow, for example, I could slowly move toward green, seeing the shading into, as Ra says, yellow-green, with yellow still predominate, then a difficult to determine midpoint at which both colors were equal, and then the beginning of green-yellow. The blended periods are not sharply discrete - there is no sharp line between yellow and green, and yellow continues for some way into green, and I imagine the densities are exactly the same.

So while somewhere around late 2012 may be that hard-to-see midpoint, yellow and those in 3d bodies will continue for some time. Q'uo also said that there would be some continuing to incarnate in 3d bodies past that midpoint - those not yet ready for 4d but with a strong desire to help heal earth. So I conclude that wanderers now in 3d or combination 3/4d bodies will also continue in our incarnations through that point. I expect a steeply increasing die-off of those in 3d bodies who are not in either group, from an increase in all the usual ways of 3d death, as Ra said, we 'will see the valley of death'. A natural process, but one that most are not so familiar or comfortable with. The preface or introduction to the Ra material was a good summation.

I agree with the practical writers who say that individual self-sufficient survival is not really possible, that we have to rely on community, so I believe that local communities are the most viable model for transition.

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Jody wrote in response to my email:

Yes, I too feel the Ra material has less of the channel's personal coloring, though I also feel that the Q'uo material has the coherence and what's called 'internal consistency' that are some of the criteria in assessing scientific accuracy. In other words, I find no inconsistencies in the Q'uo material or between it and the Ra material.

And yes, I've thought about the uses of the term discrete, and also the word 'steps' in the material to describe transition between densities, and I think it's a question of whether 'discrete' means completely so or whether that is a matter of degree. That's why I like my light through a prism interpretation, as that's literally the precisely same phenomenon Ra is describing - the nature of light across densities. And if the term discrete were to be interpreted as completely so, then there would be no blending of yellow-green nor green-yellow to be seen through a prism, and there observably is. So I conclude that the observable physics is the fact, and the interpretation of 'discrete' as completely so is incorrect.

Another point of consideration is that the Ra material is clear that green-ray influence has already begun in earth 3d, and from that I think it can be logically concluded that yellow-ray influence will continue for a time past the transition midpoint for a time into earth 4d. It is not logical that there would be an overlap of rays for a time before transition yet not for a time after. If the interpretation is that the term discrete means completely so, then there would be no green influence before transition into 4d, and Ra is entirely clear that there is.

A related psychological point in the above is that it makes psychological sense that people would prefer to believe the good of 4d is already having an influence and, although the two beliefs are contradictory, it also makes psychological sense that people would prefer to believe the problematic influences of 3d would stop sooner than later.

In other words, there cannot be an overlap before transition without an overlap after transition, but it's a psychological trait to hold contradictory beliefs when that makes us feel better, even when they are mutually exclusive. It's just wishful thinking, a newage version of the Christian rapture.

But you can see why people holding onto that pleasant belief would not react well to the prospect of more difficult work ahead. That quality of seeking to avoid hard work is another suspect point in that belief. In life, if there are two possibilities, one with hard work and the other without hard work, the first is the more likely! That's not cynical, just realistic and responsible. If we seek to be examples, it serves others better if we recommend they continue planting and expect and prepare for difficult work ahead, rather than giving out the message that all will be beamed up. That's where I feel very strongly that the ascension message is enormously irresponsible and does great harm. It's an understandable but pathological earth 3d psychological reaction on the part of wanderers who are traumatized by their earth 3d experience and simply want out themselves, so succumb to fantasy and wishful, 'magical' thinking.

Another related point of corroboration is that the Ra material says that there are already those being born into combination 3/4d bodies, and that those in wholly 4d bodies will be subsequently born through the normal means of sexual reproduction over a few generations. Awfully human, but all the more reliably believable for that.

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Scott wrote: Although I must confess I'm in the 'instantaneous camp', I can't say for sure my belief is correct, and I'm quite open to both sides...

Borrowing from a limited understanding of quantum physics and the process of spiritual initiation, I believe there is long-term gradual energetic (i.e., photonic) upgrade towards true color green vibration, followed by immediate, discontinuous quantum leap (into true color green, albeit with subtle overtones of 3D remaining). As electrons spinning around nuclei are charged from an external source, they gradually undergo energetic intensification/upgrade followed by rapid jump to a 'higher orbital shell' level -- so does the initiate (individual, or planetary-Logoic) experience slow consciousness growth followed by rapid expansion to greater awareness. Gradualism precedes instantaneous transformation in both cases.

Your point, Jody, that "there cannot be an overlap before transition without an overlap after transition" is brilliant I think -- but the nature of "overlap" doesn't necessarily assume continuing 3D body (or soul-consciousness level) beings post-harvest. Just as an initiate retains mind patterns post-initiation, yet is forever and irrevocably changed, and just as a Buddhist adept still retains (diminishing) degrees of ignorance after the first 3 of the 4 levels of enlightenment (stream-entrant, once-returner, non-returner) -- likewise, I assume 4D+ collective humanity will deal with lingering 3D-cycle thought-patterns in the early centuries of the 4D cycle. I believe that this is the nature of the vibratory/consciousness overlap that will occur post-harvest.

I fully admit and acknowledge the psychodynamics of favoring the 'instantaneous ascension' model; like most 6D old-timers, I'm happy for homecoming ASAP. However, 'gradualism' also has it's comforting psychodynamics (no mass die-off, all children live long lives, no big change in my lifetime, etc.). But regardless -- the assessment of the veracity of metaphysical concepts is independent from the degree of psychological comfort derived therefrom.

The real matter, to me, is reconciling Ra's statements in Session 6 (affirming post-2011 (appx.) Earth "will be a fourth-density planet") -- and its consequences -- versus those they made in Session 40 (affirming "100 and 700 of your years as transition period"):

Quote:6.16 Questioner: What is the position of this planet with respect to the progression of cycles at this time?

Ra: I am Ra. This sphere is at this time in fourth-dimension vibration. Its material is quite confused due to the society memory complexes embedded in its consciousness. It has not made an easy transition to the vibrations which beckon. Therefore, it will be fetched with some inconvenience.

6.17 Questioner: Is this inconvenience imminent within a few years?

Ra: I am Ra. This inconvenience, or disharmonious vibratory complex, has begun several of your years in the past. It shall continue unabated for a period of approximately 30, thirty, of your years.

6.18 Questioner: After this period of thirty years I am assuming that this will be a fourth-density planet. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is so.

40.8 Questioner: Then what will be the time of transition on this planet from third to fourth-density?

Ra: I am Ra. This is difficult to estimate due to the uncharacteristic anomalies of this transition. There are at this space/time nexus beings incarnate which have begun fourth-density work... At this particular nexus the possibility/probability vortices indicate somewhere between 100 and 700 of your years as transition period. This cannot be accurate due to the volatility of your peoples at this space/time.

The following statements are made:

1) Planet Earth is now in 4D vibratory range, although the majority of humanity is not.

2) Earth changes ("inconvenience") will end in approximately 2011 ("approximately 30 of your years" from 1/24/81 Session 6 date).

3) After Earth changes cessation, in approximately post-2011, Earth "will be a 4D planet."

4) Some entities here have already "begun 4D work" (i.e., the "double-bodied" 4D wanderers).

5) The "transition period" will be 100-700 years.

Quote:17.29 Questioner: Am I to understand that the harvest is to occur in the year 2011, or will it be spread out?

Ra: I am Ra. This is an approximation. We have stated we have difficulty with your time/space. This is an appropriate probable/possible time/space nexus for harvest.

6) "Harvest is to occur in the year 2011" (as an "approximation") -- NOT spread out over 100-700 years. Therefore, "Harvest" is a discrete event, different from the 100-700 year transition; if it were a multi-century event, Ra wouldn't affirm Don's date in the way they did.

Quote:17.1 Ra: There will also be a sharp increase in the short run of negatively oriented or polarized mind/body/spirit complexes and social complexes, due to the polarizing conditions of the sharp delineation between fourth-density characteristics and third-density self-service orientation.

7) Only "in the short run" will there be increase in "negatively oriented or polarizing" entities and groups -- implying, no more negatively polarized activity in 3D post-Harvest ("the short run"). This could fit into either 'instantaneous ascension" or a multi-century 3D/4D social blend, in which no negatively oriented souls reincarnate. But again, it does support the notion of "Harvest" as a discrete event.
63.13 Ra: I am Ra. These entities are those incarnating with what you may call a double body in activation... This transitional body is one which will be, shall we say, able to appreciate fourth-density vibratory complexes as the instreaming increases without the accompanying disruption of the third-density body. If a third-density entity were, shall we say, electrically aware of fourth-density in full, the third-density electrical fields would fail due to incompatibility.

8) As "3D electrical fields would fail" if a "3D entity were...electrically aware of 4D in full," there CANNOT be 3D bodies existing in a 4D field. However, as in point #4 (some entities here already "begun 4D work" and "the sphere at this time in 4D vibration"), there CAN be 3D souls in 3D bodies alongside 4D work occurring, while Earth is already in 4D vibration -- the notion of "discrete' doesn't apply here.

However, there WILL come a time post-Harvest when the entire 3D plane (i.e., vibratory conditions supporting 3D-body existence), is vacated:

Quote:63.8 Ra: I am Ra... As the green-ray cycle or the density of love and understanding begins to take shape the yellow-ray plane or Earth which you now enjoy in your dance will cease to be inhabited for some period of your space/time as the space/time necessary for fourth-density entities to learn their ability to shield their density from that of third is learned. After this period there will come a time when third-density may again cycle on the yellow-ray sphere.

9) Therefore, the "yellow-ray" or 3D plane "will cease to be inhabited" for some time as the harvested 4D entities "learn their ability to shield their density from that of third" (after which, they'll return and a new 3D cycle begun).

That's all well and good, but it's very hard for me to imagine this period of 3D non-inhabitation starting AFTER 100-700 more years of 3D/4D transition. Frankly, I believe the upcoming 100-700 years' transition IS the period during which yellow-ray/3D plane will "cease to be inhabited" -- with the term "transition" referring to the time needed for 4D+ newcomers to "learn their ability to shield their density from that of third." After that, Earth enters true color green and another 3D cycle resumes.

While I can recognize how the 4D plane already co-exists (invisibly) along with the 3D plane (in space/time, of visible bodies), how metaphysical work is already being done 'there' (or rather, 'here' on multi-dimensional Earth) -- I have a hard time grasping how Harvest (being a discrete event pegged to ~2011) leads to 700 years of combined 3D/4D-form co-existence, BEFORE the cessation of inhabitation of the 3D sphere.

Furthermore, I read Harvest as equivalent to the "three-way split," viz:

Quote:63.9 Questioner: At present we have, in third-density incarnation on this plane, those third-density entities of the planet Earth who have been here for some number of incarnations who will graduate in the three-way split, either positive polarity remaining for fourth-density experience on this planet, the negative polarity harvestable going to another planet, and the rest unharvestable third-density going to another third-density planet. In addition to these entities I am assuming that we have here some entities already harvestable from other third-density planets who have come here and have incarnated in third-density form to make the transition with this planet into fourth-density, plus Wanderers. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is correct except we may note a small point. The positively oriented harvested entities will remain in this planetary influence but not upon this plane.

The 'gradualist' interpretation of 100-700 years, seems to me, to require postponement of the "three-way split" for up to 700 years, post-Harvest (which is, to me, clearly a discrete event). Although 3D-bodies can indeed co-exist with the 4D developing sphere and concurrent 4D working (both now before true-color green, and after 4D entities learn dimensional shielding) -- if Harvest really is a three-way split, then non-harvestable souls must go to another 3D planet, while only 4D+ souls remain on Earth.

Frankly, I rest on this passage and the discussion of 3D non-inhabitation:

Quote:6.18 Questioner: After this period of thirty years I am assuming that this will be a fourth-density planet. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is so.

The gradualists must explain how post-2011 Harvest (approximately, yet a discrete event), after which Earth becomes a 4D planet -- 3D souls continue to re-incarnate during the 100-700 years of 4D transition (!). Harvest completed, 4D begun (albeit not yet true-color green) -- but no 3-way spit and no 3D-plane non-inhabitation -- yet instead, centuries more of human civilization blending non-harvestable 3D+ entities, harvested 4D+ souls, and double-bodied newcomers, and then the 3-way split and 3D-plane non-inhabitation??

While I totally agree with all your practical considerations of self-sufficiency and preparedness, Jody -- I do read Ra as stating post-2011 Harvest as the inception of the 3-way split and non-inhabitation of the 3D-plane. It strains my imagination to consider that those post-Harvest events will be delayed for another 100-700 years. To me, the discrete event of Harvest = instantaneous transformation (photonic trans-substantiation) and the cessation of inhabitation of the yellow-ray plane. However, I'd say this will occur before the end of 2014, not 12/21/2012.

If you read to this point, thanks for your patience, and I hope it's been worth the read.

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Jody wrote: In other words, there cannot be an overlap before transition without an overlap after transition, but it's a psychological trait to hold contradictory beliefs when that makes us feel better, even when they are mutually exclusive. It's just wishful thinking, a newage version of the Christian rapture.

Gary wrote:Definitely true that unconscious psychological factors may motivate the instantaneous ascension camp. For many perhaps that is just the appeal of the instant ascension scenario. What could be more normal for the human lot than to desire escape and relief from the pain of separation delivered via quick fix rather than through serious introspection, sacrifice, and the long-term disciplines of the personality?
But at the same time I am with Scott in believing that conclusions can be drawn independent of latent fear-of-death complexes.

Jody wrote: That's not cynical, just realistic and responsible. If we seek to be examples, it serves others better if we recommend they continue planting and expect and prepare for difficult work ahead, rather than giving out the message that all will be beamed up. That's where I feel very strongly that the ascension message is enormously irresponsible and does great harm. It's an understandable but pathological earth 3d psychological reaction on the part of wanderers who are traumatized by their earth 3d experience and simply want out themselves, so succumb to fantasy and wishful, 'magical' thinking.

Gary wrote:I totally agree that someone promulgating a message of instant ascension which suggests that all of ones troubles will soon be over not by virtue of hard work but by running out the clock is doing a disservice. But I’m still not seeing eye to eye with you on this for two basic reasons.

Firstly, while the scenario of gradual transition coupled with societal breakdown is eminently possible, what I perceive as your conviction moves beyond what any human being can know with certainty. We all have our convictions of course and I’m sure that many of mine depart from what is knowable, operating on faith alone, so I’m not claiming that all of my perceptions are rooted in hard “facts”. Just that this is one area where I don’t feel I can have similar conviction in one direction or another. My conviction is to be without conviction.

Secondly, while it can be interesting to speculate in either direction, I think that both schools of thought are mistaken if they begin to place emphasis upon the unfolding of Scenario A or B as future certainties for which the seeking entity would do best to prepare. This diverts the attention from the only access point, so to speak, wherein one connects to the real and the true, that being the present moment. Our outer identities do of course live within, and are made of, the illusion, so it is wise to plan and make decisions according to the ever changing needs of the horizontal plane (e.g., it will likely rain some day so it would be helpful to invest in a raincoat, you live near a river that floods so best to elevate your house), but these concerns need occupy only a small portion of our consciousness as I see it. The further ones attention strays from the present moment, especially as it gets caught up in sensational events of the future (however plausible and probable those events may be), the more we solidify, and identify with, a separate, time-bound, transient identity.

As I see it, the business of spirituality is eternity and infinity, not to the point of denying, repressing, ignoring, or judging the events and energies within the illusion, but in rendering the movement of illusory energies transparent to the One within -- ever present, ever unchanging, ever permanent. Thusly any entity or group teaching the ways of spirit and the keys to unknowing should not emphasize Scenarios A, B, or C, but Scenario Now --- all other concerns, including preparation for probable/possible upheaval, being of secondary importance.

Jody wrote: yes, the point when yellow-green, more yellow than green, becomes green-yellow, more green than yellow, which still continues for a humanly long time... a 3 year old child does not in real developmental terms suddenly become a 4 year old child on its 4th birthday, even though that is a sudden'discrete' event in its own time scale...

Gary wrote:And that, too, is a beautiful point. As was your clarification of the definition of to abate in reference to the difficulties of the harvest continuing “unabated” for a period of thirty years.

I had done what Scott did and read “unabated” in that excerpt to indicate that there would be an abrupt end to the difficulties, not that there would be a lessening, so I’m grateful for the clarification.

Here is an analogy of evolution unfolding in a combination of gradual and discrete that may be of aid: the moth becoming the butterfly. Gradual metamorphosis within the cocoon followed by a discrete event wherein the creature is entirely different, having irrevocably left its moth-form behind in favor of a new mode of life. While we can’t say what inner characteristics are retained in the butterfly from its previous moth form, I think we can say with certainty that a discrete boundary was crossed with accompanying radical transformation.

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Jody wrote:
I don't have too much to add to my earlier thoughts, except to articulate the same thoughts a bit further. I'd reemphasize that the spectrum and the way colors overlap is a matter of physics fact:

The Electromagnetic Spectrum
Dr. William P. Blair, Astrophysicist and Research Professor
Department of Physics and Astronomy, The Johns Hopkins University
"There are no hard boundaries to each spectral region; they just blend together into a continuum of smoothly changing wavelengths. Even the boundaries themselves are ill-defined, which is why in the diagram above we show overlaps in some of the ranges. The spectral regions are just convenient definitions that are used for reference, and can be modified as needed."
http://fuse.pha.jhu.edu/~wpb/spectroscopy/em_spec.html

"Colors that can be produced by visible light of a narrow band of wavelengths (monochromatic light) are called pure spectral colors. The various color ranges indicated in the diagram on the right are an approximation: the spectrum is continuous, with no clear boundaries between one color and the next."[9]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visible_spe...ral_colors
[9]Thomas J. Bruno, Paris D. N. Svoronos. CRC Handbook of Fundamental Spectroscopic Correlation Charts. CRC Press, 2005.

And that I think about psychological factors only to understand peoples' responses, whereas it's axiomatic that transitions in physical phenomena are subjectively experienced in terms of time, ie that in the example, a caterpillar experiences becoming butterfly in its own timescale, which to it is not very quick, any more than human childbirth is to the mother or child! I think it's telling that the examples of discrete and quick being pointed to are all smaller in scale than the human - events that only to humans are quick, not to the electron or caterpillar. In other words, I think that only anthropomorphically can we think of these events as quick, but that's grafting human timescale onto a smaller, shorter lived example. So I base my hypothesis on the psychophysiological fact of human timescale perception, as well as on Ra's saying there is / will be a 100-700 year transition period. In fact, Ra's saying that may be the most direct evidence from the material that harvest and transition are a gradual process - all conclusions other than that are based on personal interpretations of word gloss and context, which can be useful and reliable, but perhaps less so than the statement of the 100-700 year transition period.

But in terms of practical preparation, an ascension scenario might not seem to require earthly preparation (except to polarize positively, but that too requires concrete actions, and collapse preparations are some of the most relevant), whereas a gradual scenario requires earthly preparation, whether in terms of psychological, community or physical resources. In other words, there's no downside to preparing for a gradual scenario, but there is significant downside to not preparing, so preparing is the wisest response. And that's really my only point.

I'm not seeking certainty, rather making a rational observation of earthly circumstances and choice of action. Not making such a choice of action, and by not acting, making the default assumption that the technical and resource supports of modern 'civilization' will remain is not a viable approach, not worthy of the thinking and adapting creature we've evolved to be.

The evolutionary spur Ra described in the human loss of bodily hair and physical strength in order to give incentive for learning to cooperate remains in effect and relevance! Human history is just a record of the attempt to deny and evade that choice, and I think it is a central point of transition and harvest that the necessity of making that choice is made undeniable.

Being a pater familias, having to provide for others has made me very aware of the necessity for practical preparation, a natural extension to prepare for winter, not just spring. The planet faces a basic food supply crisis, which will likely be the major cause of die-off, along with a breakdown in sanitation and health. The spiritual dimensions are interesting, but yes, speculation, and I am now more interested in furthering learning practical relevant skills such as gardening and handtool work and loosely integrating into community in some way.

Collapse may be slower, which would be great, but that's just taking the bandaid off slow, not changing the fact that it's coming off. We can consider earthly life transient, but starvation, freezing and urban breakdown are not pleasant. While on earth, we move toward the One by eating, staying warm and being contributing members of community, however loosely and eclectic - my preference!

And in light of the significant downsides to not preparing, I do think the psychological factors to that choice of response are relevant, and there is much extremely useful and positive discussion of these factors and productive responses in the Transition Towns, Relocalization and Collapse groups. I don't feel called to talking about that as I did to talking about wanderers, as preparation is more a matter of doing than talking. So while I don't mind my thoughts being posted, I don't want my email given out or to be invited to discuss. The information and research breadcrumb trail is there for any who are interested. Many relevant websites list further links. As you say, Gary, "Running out the clock" is not a calling.

Carolyn Baker is one of a number of psychologists who now work in 'collapse counseling' and write on these issues, and has written the practical-psychospiritual book "Sacred Demise: Walking the Spiritual Path of Industrial Civilization’s Collapse":
http://carolynbaker.net

Another is Kathy McMahon:
http://www.peakoilblues.org/blog

Transition Towns
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transition_Towns

Relocalization
http://www.postcarbon.org/relocalize

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Scott wrote: Thanks for all your comments too, all most thoughtful and incisive; I don't have anything more to add at this point, and as always "time will tell."

I agree with Jody on many points, and with Gary on many points, especially the conclusion about emphasis:

"Thusly any entity or group teaching the ways of spirit and the keys to unknowing should not emphasize Scenarios A, B, or C, but Scenario Now --- all other concerns, including preparation for probable/possible upheaval, being of secondary importance."

And thus, Ra said "the harvest is now" -- both a planetary ongoing process, as well as an individual testing and measurement process. Of course, when I side on the instantaneous camp, it's not for the purpose of recommending to drop one's responsibilities (dharma, or danda in Sanskrit); I'm just expressing my incredulity that we'll have 100-700 more years of 3D-souls' reincarnation, alongside 4D double-bodied newcomers, in a quasi-3D/4D energy/social matrix.

And what of the leadership of STS global institutions? If all STS souls are gone post-Harvest but 3D+ non-harvestables continue reincarnating for another 100-700 years, all such will gradually fall apart? And this is the 4D transition? The change-over, in the social sphere, would seem very messy...

Thanks for sharing so deeply, I've enjoyed our dialogue and learned a lot too.

(02-17-2011, 09:38 PM)Bring4th_GLB Wrote: [ -> ]And thus, Ra said "the harvest is now" -- both a planetary ongoing process, as well as an individual testing and measurement process. Of course, when I side on the instantaneous camp, it's not for the purpose of recommending to drop one's responsibilities (dharma, or danda in Sanskrit); I'm just expressing my incredulity that we'll have 100-700 more years of 3D-souls' reincarnation, alongside 4D double-bodied newcomers, in a quasi-3D/4D energy/social matrix.

On the whole, I'm thinking we will. When Ra says "there will seem to be, shall we say, a new breed.", for example, I'm imagining a much more overt phenomenon.

On the other hand, when I read "The harvest is now. There is not at this time any reason to include efforts along these distortions toward longevity, but rather to encourage distortions toward seeking the heart of self, for this which resides clearly in the violet-ray energy field will determine the harvesting of each mind/body/spirit complex.", I don't see how that squares at all with the 'gradualist' interpretation. If 3D, at harvest point or not, is 100-times more polarizing than the other densities, one would think that it's still an extremely useful playground - so why not seek a longer 3D life?

(02-17-2011, 11:07 PM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ]On the whole, I'm thinking we will. When Ra says "there will seem to be, shall we say, a new breed.", for example, I'm imagining a much more overt phenomenon.

well they are already here ? just check youth in all different countries. they are increasingly resembling each other in most respects, including facial characteristics.

average beauty of an average youngster is multitudes beyond the average beauty of an average youngster from back 30 years ago. if you compare them to people of 50-60 years ago, the disparage widens even more.

they are acting similar to each other in most respects. one can say that this is also caused by internet, but, there is not that level of synchronicity in between all cultures - english speaking internet and other languages are pretty much secluded by language barrier.

Quote:On the other hand, when I read "The harvest is now. There is not at this time any reason to include efforts along these distortions toward longevity, but rather to encourage distortions toward seeking the heart of self, for this which resides clearly in the violet-ray energy field will determine the harvesting of each mind/body/spirit complex.", I don't see how that squares at all with the 'gradualist' interpretation. If 3D, at harvest point or not, is 100-times more polarizing than the other densities, one would think that it's still an extremely useful playground - so why not seek a longer 3D life?

harvest may happen instantly, yet, the passage to a 4d society/planet, may happen gradually.

(02-17-2011, 11:07 PM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ]If 3D, at harvest point or not, is 100-times more polarizing than the other densities, one would think that it's still an extremely useful playground - so why not seek a longer 3D life?

I would like to throw in a curious LOO exchange into the entire debate, for I think it is a vital piece of the puzzle as well -

Quote:90.5 Questioner: You stated previously that fifth-density entities bear a resemblance to those of us in third density on planet Earth but fourth density does not. Could you describe the fourth-density entities and tell me why they do not resemble us?

Ra: I am Ra. The description must be bated under the Law of Confusion. The cause for a variety of so-called physical vehicles is the remaining variety of heritages from second-density physical vehicular forms. The process of what you call physical evolution continues to hold sway into fourth density. Only when the ways of wisdom have begun to refine the power of what you may loosely call thought is the form of the physical complex manifestation more nearly under the direction of the consciousness.

May be after the 'discrete' harvest, the period of transition of 100-700 years has something to do with fluid physical evolution, wherein the physical frames of those inhabiting earth (STO entities) undergo extensive metamorphosis, before concrete crystallization at the end of the transition period. Just a random thought from me.

@unity100 - I'm not seeing major, overt differences, that could be specifically tied to dual activation. However, agree that there are noticeable physical, and psychological differences in the younger generations. I do not notice big diferences in intelligence, creativity, intuition, empathy, ethical awareness, or the claimed psychic ability.

@confused - I believe Ra was referring to 4D's inability to change form to resemble earth peoples. Their bodies, like ours, have their native, l[/align]egacy DNA.

(02-18-2011, 11:59 AM)Confused Wrote: [ -> ]

Quote:90.5 Questioner: You stated previously that fifth-density entities bear a resemblance to those of us in third density on planet Earth but fourth density does not. Could you describe the fourth-density entities and tell me why they do not resemble us?

Ra: I am Ra. The description must be bated under the Law of Confusion. The cause for a variety of so-called physical vehicles is the remaining variety of heritages from second-density physical vehicular forms. The process of what you call physical evolution continues to hold sway into fourth density. Only when the ways of wisdom have begun to refine the power of what you may loosely call thought is the form of the physical complex manifestation more nearly under the direction of the consciousness.

May be after the 'discrete' harvest, the period of transition of 100-700 years has something to do with fluid physical evolution, wherein the physical frames of those inhabiting earth (STO entities) undergo extensive metamorphosis, before concrete crystallization at the end of the transition period. Just a random thought from me.

but the quote says, the physical evolution "ends" (gets under direction of consciousness) when the 5th density is near. when the ways of wisdom refine the power of thought.

this means, its not related to the transition period of this planet from 3d to 4d in physical body forms.

(02-18-2011, 01:50 PM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ]@unity100 - I'm not seeing major, overt differences, that could be specifically tied to dual activation. However, agree that there are noticeable physical, and psychological differences in the younger generations. I do not notice big diferences in intelligence, creativity, intuition, empathy, ethical awareness, or the claimed psychic ability.

for you, dual activation may or may not be a factor. strength of seeking and dedication of seeking, or the life circumstances/conditions you are in also may be factors.

yet, even if dual activation (or lack of it) is a factor, strong spiritual seeking, desire eventually should take effect with dedication.

in the case of dual activated kiddos, they are as of now in spiritual childhood stage (ra says even normal humans were in spiritual childhood for 70 years). it is possible that they may not have opened their chakras to a level that they may do anything with them.

that being said, i am seeing some very radiant kids in my social circle.

I've just spent several hours reading through this thread and digging into the Ra Material myself. In my opinion, the harvest will be a discrete event. The word itself, "harvest" implies something that happens quickly.


Here are some Ra statements (paraphrased):

1. All will be harvested regardless of progress, including those not in body.

2. The harvest is in approximately 30 years from January, 1981.

3. Although it is never said explicitly in the Ra Material, harvest implies death of the physical vehicle, at least that's how I'm reading it. (If someone can find a quote that says harvest=death, please let me know).

And when I combine an expeditious harvest with these Ra statements above, I get that we all have to leave our 3D vehicles sometime soon (sorry).

It seems to me that the Q'uo material is at odds with Ra when it says we can live out our 3d lives normally--unless they mean in a non-physical 3d plane.

I started prepping for peak oil (resource scarcity) back in 2004, before I found the Law of One last year. But a couple of years ago, I stopped prepping. I had this conscious realization that I *DID NOT* incarnate on this planet to struggle in a post-industrial wasteland or spend my time trying to out run hoards of cannibals. I know Jody feels we should all be prepping but it really allowed me to focus on increasing my vibration when I stopped thinking about the collapse of civilization/prepping.

I welcome the harvest and I just hope that we can keep the vibration here on earth high enough to avoid mass suffering (pole shift?) before the harvest comes. I think that's why we are here. At least, that's why I'm here.

L&L
Marielle

(02-18-2011, 08:10 PM)marielle Wrote: [ -> ]And when I combine an expeditious harvest with these Ra statements above, I get that we all have to leave our 3D vehicles sometime soon (sorry).

It seems to me that the Q'uo material is at odds with Ra when it says we can live out our 3d lives normally--unless they mean in a non-physical 3d plane.

if so, then there would be no need for 3-4d activated bodies to be born, in order to incrementally create the 4d bodies that were going to be used in this planet. so it seems, mass death is out of the question, since it would disrupt the reproduction of these people.

Quote:I welcome the harvest and I just hope that we can keep the vibration here on earth high enough to avoid mass suffering (pole shift?) before the harvest comes. I think that's why we are here. At least, that's why I'm here.

as far as quo is concerned, that problem is in the past.

(02-18-2011, 08:10 PM)marielle Wrote: [ -> ]In my opinion, the harvest will be a discrete event.

I agree.

EDIT: Sudden or gradual is depending on the point of reference. From our point of view 100-700 years might appear as a long period. But it might be a blink of an eye in the measurement of the galaxy.

I think the importance in this statement is:

Quote:40.8 Questioner: Then what will be the time of transition on this planet from third to fourth-density?

Ra: I am Ra. This is difficult to estimate due to the uncharacteristic anomalies of this transition. There are at this space/time nexus beings incarnate which have begun fourth-density work... At this particular nexus the possibility/probability vortices indicate somewhere between 100 and 700 of your years as transition period. This cannot be accurate due to the volatility of your peoples at this space/time.

(01-22-2011, 03:47 PM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ]Yes, the ego is the focal point of consciousness.

Not entirely, it's an aspect of it.

Ra Wrote:The third blockage resembles most closely that which you have called ego. It is the yellow-ray or solar plexus center. Blockages in this center will often manifest as distortions toward power manipulation and other social behaviors concerning those close and those associated with the mind/body/spirit complex. Those with blockages in these first three energy centers, or nexi, will have continuing difficulties in ability to further their seeking of the Law of One.

Full session Q&A.

Perception itself is the focus of consciousness that gives rise to your individual experience.

(02-24-2011, 05:12 PM)Namaste Wrote: [ -> ]Perception itself is the focus of consciousness that gives rise to your individual experience.

Perception is a passive principle, integral but one-sided with respect to the focus of consciousness and can not, alone, be the basis. There is an active aspect as well. After all, we're not merely 'watching a movie'.

Ra's quote deals with the identification of 'I'-ness, an aspect of ourselves which we explore with the handy veil, and is indeed characterized by the solar plexus. That identifying self is obviously not the 'I', however.

(02-18-2011, 11:59 AM)Confused Wrote: [ -> ]May be after the 'discrete' harvest, the period of transition of 100-700 years has something to do with fluid physical evolution, wherein the physical frames of those inhabiting earth (STO entities) undergo extensive metamorphosis, before concrete crystallization at the end of the transition period. Just a random thought from me.

That makes sense. And it might explain the recent movement towards raw vegan diets, consumption of live foods, fasting, sungazing, yoga, and other practices known to invigorate and rejuvenate the physical body...even to the point of reversing the aging process.

(02-25-2011, 02:15 AM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ]Perception is a passive principle, integral but one-sided with respect to the focus of consciousness and can not, alone, be the basis. There is an active aspect as well. After all, we're not merely 'watching a movie'.

Ra's quote deals with the identification of 'I'-ness, an aspect of ourselves which we explore with the handy veil, and is indeed characterized by the solar plexus. That identifying self is obviously not the 'I', however.

Of course, we are the Creator. Perhaps perception was a loose term; more so the focusing of vibration into this reality. Consciousness itself in which the ego is an aspect.

Moderator edit to clarify the authors of the two quotes to which irpsit is responding.

Quote:Jody wrote: But you can see why people holding onto that pleasant belief would not react well to the prospect of more difficult work ahead. That quality of seeking to avoid hard work is another suspect point in that belief. In life, if there are two possibilities, one with hard work and the other without hard work, the first is the more likely! That's not cynical, just realistic and responsible. If we seek to be examples, it serves others better if we recommend they continue planting and expect and prepare for difficult work ahead, rather than giving out the message that all will be beamed up. That's where I feel very strongly that the ascension message is enormously irresponsible and does great harm. It's an understandable but pathological earth 3d psychological reaction on the part of wanderers who are traumatized by their earth 3d experience and simply want out themselves, so succumb to fantasy and wishful, 'magical' thinking.

Jody; I fully agree with you. We must, prepare for hard work. Service to others and not sitting down and just sending light energy. Service is caring in everyday life, as we transit from an individualistic self-serving society to one that is of mutual help for each other. And this includes caring for others, caring for the meals, for gardening, for building an house or teaching, for helping when in need.

As our present society gradually collapses, local small communities will form within cities, and in the countryside, to deal with those practical questions. Gardening, permaculture, green building, cooking skills, are all important. Learning how to live in community.

Pay attention to these movements.

Personally, being involved in an anthrophosophic ecovillage, I can give advice, my experience, or help, in case you need to.
I feel joyful to live my life in green ray, by caring to each other (we are practical, not theory).

Quote:GLB wrote: Secondly, while it can be interesting to speculate in either direction, I think that both schools of thought are mistaken if they begin to place emphasis upon the unfolding of Scenario A or B as future certainties for which the seeking entity would do best to prepare. This diverts the attention from the only access point, so to speak, wherein one connects to the real and the true, that being the present moment. Our outer identities do of course live within, and are made of, the illusion, so it is wise to plan and make decisions according to the ever changing needs of the horizontal plane (e.g., it will likely rain some day so it would be helpful to invest in a raincoat, you live near a river that floods so best to elevate your house), but these concerns need occupy only a small portion of our consciousness as I see it. The further ones attention strays from the present moment, especially as it gets caught up in sensational events of the future (however plausible and probable those events may be), the more we solidify, and identify with, a separate, time-bound, transient identity.

As GLB said, I believe there is already a crescendo of green ray, it doesn't matter the future. Let's focus on this PRESENT MOMENT. There are many opportunities for each of you:

- to create what you feel is necessary to give your soul that creative space
- to manifest the conditions in your life that truly make you happy and joyful
- to create those conditions for service to others

From personal experience, I can tell you, it seems better to build your own life from the present moment, right now, rather than waste the time with future plans or speculations. It is wiser to decide based on our true happiness and love, rather than from mental concepts.

(06-16-2010, 05:59 PM)Namaste Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-15-2010, 10:51 PM)MtDoraGuy Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-15-2010, 05:37 PM)Namaste Wrote: [ -> ]Dora: marvellous to hear that you discovered yourself. Very inspirational! Out of interest, what type of meditation do you perform to connect with your higher self/6D?

Meditation has always kept me near my higher self. However, I couldn't get the realization, life changing experience I needed to make it completely real.

However, after attending the Austin Convergence with David Wilcock, it seems some sort of new vibratonal energy was transforming within me.

It made me frustrated, confused and uneasy. It was almost like I had an 'itching' inside which I could not scratch. I was really having trouble meditating and could not rest with my higher power.

Then, I watched David's interview with Graham Hancock. In it, Graham talks about his experiences with 'ayahuasca'. I tried some and found out it really brought me in touch with my 6d self.

Since the experience, I have become a vegan, as the thought of being a 'murderer for meat' became extremely distasteful. Weight has dropped off and I feel myself on a new energy level.

Since ayahuasca is a hallucinogenic, I do not comment on its use other than it has been extremely useful to me in understand Ra's teachings and my bonding with my 6d self.

Here is the url to the interview, in case you are interested.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WiasAfSiu4

Thanks, had seen that - Graham is a very nice character, humble and to the point.

I have also had ayahuasca; a very unique experience. The (fascinating) book The Cosmic Serpent - DNA and the Origins of Knowledge led me to it.

Once was enough, as the power to transform is always within us at all times. Practiced compassion, meditation and intention is my path to All That Is - the lifting of the veil. Roll on 2012

---

(06-16-2010, 05:51 PM)Richard Wrote: [ -> ]Interesting to see DW take the LOO line by line and give his interpretation of its meaning. I see TV preachers do the same thing with bible passages. Its apparent that he fervently believes his interpetation of coming events. But like all of us here..its just an opinion.

I like reading DW…but I read other channels also. I take the message from each that I feel helps me come to terms on whatever I’m working on at the time. But one thing I do agree with him on. You have to die to ascend. I just don’t think we’re all going to do it in one fell swoop. I believe the dates of 2010-2013 are meaningless in a physical context. Beyond the normal interplay of life in general. Meaning, there will always be incidents that take human life…storms, flood, earthquakes, other selves…etc..

Richard

I am also open to the notion that the 3D vehicle may very well perish, purely because there are a couple of very clear Ra quotes on the subject.

DW quoted in one of his video's (the latest 4 hour one) that he does not think all life was created to be wiped out by a natural disaster (solar flare, flood etc.), however I beg to differ. Every single one of us will at some point die in this 3D experience, which is just a playground for learning. If the end of the Great Cycle is near, all who have learned the lessons (or not) will be at a point of continued 3D or progression to 4D- or 4D+. A 'natural disaster' is just another means of getting people to the correct density when the time is right, to continue their path.

Either way, it's exciting times! I am in the camp that it will be a 'sudden' process (instant, hours, days or weeks) that the veil is lifted and we start to 'see' reality in a different manner, and feel connected to our total selves, and other selves. It could well be instant, considering that this reality is created/manifested at the speed of light, X times per second. There is nothing saying it has to be at the pace of Darwin's physical, genetic evolution.

Half the fun is thinking about it

Hello all.

I just wanted to throw my 2 cents in on this.

Based on the LOO teaching, Ra says that this planet is already 4D but not fully integrated into the Green Ray and that it will be in 1981 + 30 years (approx). So my question is, if its gradual and if it takes us all living out our lives THEN reincarnating to 4D, whats the point? Whats the point of Harvest? Also, if the earth becomes full on 4D, then its not 3D any longer, how could we live on it in 3D? Considering those things it seems very unlikely that we will either wait around or that we will all die, since it would take the death of every single person since Ra says the earth will be inhospitable for 3rd density life at that point, which means we CANT live on a 4D planet in 3D physical form.

I see it as a gift, as something out of the norm that makes it special, after all this isnt the regular end of cycle, this is the end of ALL cycles in 3d for this earth, by nature its different.

And the thing about Wilcock, I see a lot of people ridicule him, put him down and criticize just about every thing the man says yet he seems to be one of the ones truly working his butt off to help us all understand what's going on, to disseminate information to the world (Much of it for absolute free on his website such as his 3 volume Convergence series and the LOO Study Guide) as well as putting his neck on the line to get information from places where otherwise wouldnt be possible.. I mostly see this in supposed Lightworker and "Light/Love" people forums and websites, extremely childish, ignorant and petty if you ask me, exactly the opposite I would expect from the crowd claiming to be enlightened or even semi enlightened and here to make the world a better place. Of course this is how it always is with people like DW, its jsut a shame that it comes from the very people who should be supporting his work and the work of all likeminded people. It makes me very sad and reminds me how much this ascension is needed.

The bible, though a mixed source and corrupted in many ways, speaks of a catching up and it is done in the twinkling of an eye, the Maori speak of the dissolving of the veil ( from what I understand the term is meant to be rapid), the work of Calleman, McKenna Teillhard de Chardin, Vernadsky and others show the absolute omega point whererin time/consciousness has increased to a point of singularity, or Omega point as De Chardin calls it, again this is an all new occurence, never before having taken place on the earth...This speaks of a time/no time where something like instantaneous ascension seems to be the result. Many of us know and understand these time waves and this speed up towards the "great attractor at the end of time". We also have the Butterfly-man crop formation, where just as a catterpillar morphing into a butterfly, in the same lifetime, we appear to metamorphose into a highly evolved being...again, which would be done in the same lifetime. There seem to be so many, too many signs speaking to this as a very rapid event, something extremely special, a gift to us who are here, whats the point of all the new learning concerning consciousness having the ability to lower crime, prevent and/or lessen cataclysms if the end result is that we all need to perish in order to transition? It seems like a big fat waste. It also seems strange that everything is converging to raise our frequencies, we're doing all this work to raise them...only to end up having a mega die off wherein nearly 7 billion people are in absolute terror (save the extreme few who have overcome all fear of pain, loss and violent death), dying in a massive wave of fear, anger, pain, confusion, terror and heartache...

I cant claim to know it all and these are just my thoughts, only time will tell but I just done see the gradualist theory making much sense. Should our bodies turn into light, that would very well fit the term "death" of the physical body as spoken by Ra, just as the catterpillar body dies.

Cheers.

Death is indeed the great illusion.

The more I think about gradual ascension the more it seems implausible. If we dont all ascend and go to our places, then we all have to die, every last one of us in a full extinction event, otherwise there will always be people on earth being born and living in 3D. Yet Ra says the earth will be a full 4D planet by 2011/2012.

Theres absolutely no point in there being a Harvest at that time unless one or the other happens/ Without a full extinction there will continue to be people on this 3D earth. Now if some say we will slowly turn into 4D beings, then what the heck is Harvest? There's no need for a Harvest and an end to a cycle if it keeps going, in fact that is not an end, that would be a continuing cycle...because its still going on. So its either the end or it isnt.

Sorry to be so dizzying but this is troubling me.


Maybe Im severely confused but these seem to be the only options.

ra talks about the normal physical body reproduction producing 4d bodies in few generations, so there has to be some continuity.

You also have the dual activated bodies. Not to say that the spirit is already 4d then "being harvested" seems not to apply since they were harvested already either in another planet or earth's after death.

In 2013, we will be discussing how it is that we have all been dual bodies without realizing. We will argue if it is natural or causal for the veil to disappear, because it won't be gone. One will say it should be gone if we've been harvested. Another will say it is the individual's resposibility to remove it.