Bring4th

I just studied Session 35, which contains a metaphysical biography of Abraham Lincoln by Ra.

Can someone who knows history of this period help me?

RA claims that in 1853 Lincoln was weary of war and conflict. He was NOT suicidal but he was weary of life. In a dream, a 4 D positive entity (probably from the Confederation) contacted him and agreed to WALK IN and live the rest of Lincoln's life for him. The entity previously known as Lincoln then went to an astral resting place, presumably where Carla goes during her trance channeling sessions.

My problem is the year 1853.

How could Lincoln possibly be laden down with grief and guilt over the massive death caused by the Civil War when the war did not start until 1861?

This does not make any 3 D chronological sense. I am sure there were pressures and great stress leading up to the actual outbreak of the Civil War. But how could Lincoln have been worn out by 1853 in response to an event that did not start until 1861?

Calling all Ra apologists! You are needed to make sense out of this seeming boo boo on Ra's part.

CAVEAT: against all logical advice, I am still focusing on the Scott Mandelker lectures on YOUTUBE to study each session. Perhaps Scott errored in attributing Lincoln's "weariness of life" to the war. Obviously, that is simply not possible unless Lincoln was a time traveler. From the movies we know he was a Vampire Killer. LOL

Thanks.

[*]1831 Nat Turner's Rebellion
[*]1832 Black Hawk War
[*]1835–1842 Second Seminole War
[*]1835–1836 Toledo War (bloodless)
[*]1838 Missouri Mormon War
[*]1838–1839 Aroostook War
[*]1839 Honey War (bloodless)
[*]1841–1842 Dorr War
[*]1845 Milwaukee Bridge War
[*]1846–1848 Mexican–American War

• 1846 Battle of Palo Alto
  
• 1846 Battle of Resaca de la Palma
  
• 1846 Occupation of Santa Fe
  
• 1846 Battle of Monterey
  
• 1846 Siege of Los Angeles
  
• 1846 Battle of San Pasqual
  
• 1846 Battle of Rio San Gabriel
  

[*]1848–1855 Cayuse War

Sigh.

We are not a "friendly" nation.

(08-09-2016, 06:45 PM)Chandlersdad Wrote: [ -> ]...Calling all Ra apologists! You are needed to make sense out of this seeming boo boo on Ra's part...

You want to believe and you also want to find ways not to.

I would suggest that, as with any and all material, you take what you resonate with and not let the rest prevent you from taking in what is truth to you.  For truth is subjective while incarnated in 3d, particularly when it comes to events.

As an example, I let go of all the stuff about UFOs and pyramids in the Ra material.  It simply does not resonate with me.  But I do not let this tarnish all the rest of this extremely wonderful material.

This may seem crazy at first.  But I assure you that this kind of foolish faith is exactly what is needed to win this game of ours.

 

(08-09-2016, 09:39 PM)Patrick Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-09-2016, 06:45 PM)Chandlersdad Wrote: [ -> ]...Calling all Ra apologists! You are needed to make sense out of this seeming boo boo on Ra's part...

You want to believe and you also want to find ways not to.

I would suggest that, as with any and all material, you take what you resonate with and not let the rest prevent you from taking in what is truth to you.  For truth is subjective while incarnated in 3d, particularly when it comes to events.

As an example, I let go of all the stuff about UFOs and pyramids in the Ra material.  It simply does not resonate with me.  But I do not let this tarnish all the rest of this extremely wonderful material.

This may seem crazy at first.  But I assure you that this kind of foolish faith is exactly what is needed to win this game of ours.

 

Well, that's the problem. How can you really just pick and choose. Either a channel is speaking truth or not. If it is fraught with errors, how can you just accept the parts that make you feel good? I am not anti-RA or I would not be devoting hours per day studying it. Nonetheless, if there is a giant Ra sized elephant in the middle of the room, I feel it appropriate to bring it up. This was one example.

How about the truly goofy claim that Ra created the Great Pyramid to APPEAR as if it was done by thousands of workers with chisled blocks, but was really made over night out of thought forms. That is absurd. We have found remains of the worker camps surrounding the Great Pyramid. The Great Pyramid even has internal graffiti by the workers, their version of "Leroy was here!" Sometimes I think Ra is senile and making up things as they go along. If Don had asked him where Emelia Earhardt's plane had crashed, I suspect Ra would have responded "On one of the moons of Mars".

I am back to my original point. If you KNOW Ra is wrong on certain points, how you do then convince yourself to just believe in other points that attract your interest? How do you do that?

How can I know Ra is wrong? I didn't know Abraham Lincoln or when he became weary of life, I wasn't there when the pyramids were built - all I have are stories that have been retold. Mythology. Ra offers the same thing. If Ra's mythology conflicts too much with the one you already have, then maybe it isn't for you. Or, since it seems you're hopelessly addicted to this cycle, dive in and embrace the juicy catalyst you have given yourself. No one outside of you will have the answers - shoot, if you're not satisfied with what Ra has to say, how can you be satisfied with our attempts to refute??

I have a question for you, Chandlersdad: Do you meditate?

Quote:5.2 Questioner: We have decided to accept, if offered, the honor/duty of learning/teaching the healing process. I would ask as to the first step which we should accomplish in becoming effective healers.

Ra: I am Ra. We shall begin with the first of the three teachings/learnings.

We begin with the mental learn/teachings necessary for contact with intelligent infinity. The prerequisite of mental work is the ability to retain silence of self at a steady state when required by the self. The mind must be opened like a door. The key is silence.

None of this will ever make sense if you try to solve the riddles with your logical mind alone.

(08-10-2016, 12:34 AM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote: [ -> ]How can I know Ra is wrong? I didn't know Abraham Lincoln or when he became weary of life, I wasn't there when the pyramids were built - all I have are stories that have been retold. Mythology. Ra offers the same thing. If Ra's mythology conflicts too much with the one you already have, then maybe it isn't for you. Or, since it seems you're hopelessly addicted to this cycle, dive in and embrace the juicy catalyst you have given yourself. No one outside of you will have the answers - shoot, if you're not satisfied with what Ra has to say, how can you be satisfied with our attempts to refute??

I have a question for you, Chandlersdad: Do you meditate?

Quote:5.2 Questioner: We have decided to accept, if offered, the honor/duty of learning/teaching the healing process. I would ask as to the first step which we should accomplish in becoming effective healers.

Ra: I am Ra. We shall begin with the first of the three teachings/learnings.

We begin with the mental learn/teachings necessary for contact with intelligent infinity. The prerequisite of mental work is the ability to retain silence of self at a steady state when required by the self. The mind must be opened like a door. The key is silence.

None of this will ever make sense if you try to solve the riddles with your logical mind alone.

So instead of simply explaining how Lincoln could have been weary of the Civil War in 1853 when it did not start until 1861, you ask "do you meditate?" Actually, I have been meditating since the early 80's on a daily basis. But meditation is not meant to make you stupid when it comes to glaring discrepancies like this.

really the point of reading stuff like this is to find what resonates with you personally. throw away what you don't like, ponder what captures your attention, simple as that. also, Ra is notoriously sketchy with numbers, they even said so themselves. But numbers don't matter - even if Ra had made up the entire story of Lincoln, it's still an interesting concept that one could learn from spiritually. Just take note of what makes your heart sing like the bell after it is struck. Don't pay attention to the other stuff.

No offense, but you and\or Mandelker are reading things into that particular Ra comment which were not there.  I'll quote the substance for convenience:

Quote:The one known as Abraham had an extreme difficulty in many ways and, due to physical, mental, and spiritual pain, was weary of life but without the orientation to self-destruction. In your time, 1853, this entity was contacted in sleep by a fourth-density being. This being was concerned with the battle between the forces of light and the forces of darkness which have been waged in fourth density for many of your years.

This entity accepted the honor/duty of completing the one known as Abraham’s karmic patterns and the one known as Abraham discovered that this entity would attempt those things which the one known as Abraham desired to do but felt it could not. Thus the exchange was made.

The entity, Abraham, was taken to a plane of suspension until the cessation of its physical vehicle much as though we of Ra would arrange with this instrument to remain in the vehicle, come out of the trance state, and function as this instrument, leaving this instrument’s mind and spirit complex in its suspended state.

The planetary energies at this time were at what seemed to this entity to be at a critical point, for that which you know as freedom had gained in acceptance as a possibility among many peoples. This entity saw the work done by those beginning the democratic concept of freedom, as you call it, in danger of being abridged or abrogated by the rising belief and use of the principle of the enslavement of entities. This is a negative concept of a fairly serious nature in your density. This entity, therefore, went forward into what it saw as the battle for the light, for healing of a rupture in the concept of freedom.

This entity did not gain or lose karma by these activities due to its detachment from any outcome. Its attitude throughout was one of service to others, more especially to the downtrodden or enslaved. The polarity of the individual was somewhat, but not severely, lessened by the cumulative feelings and thought-forms which were created due to large numbers of entities leaving the physical plane due to trauma of battle.

Nowhere does he claim the Civil War was happening in 1853.  He mentions long-standing battles being waged in 4D, basically in parallel to activities on Earth.  And as another comment pointed out, there were plenty of wars at that time, as well as the ongoing issue of slavery, which Lincoln was concerned with.   Ra does allude directly to his opposition to slavery.  Also, it's very widely theorized that Lincoln had medical conditions which contributed to his unusual size and appearance.  These would have almost certainly been extremely painful, and even more so in a world without real painkillers - and that could make anyone weary of life.

Further, Ra's account does actually line up with what we know of Lincoln's timeline.  Prior to 1853, he was primarily a lawyer.  He had been briefly elected to the House of Reps in 1847-49, but it was an unsuccessful term and when he lost his reelection bid, he went back to his work as a lawyer.  But suddenly, in 1854, he decided to re-enter politics -largely due to slavery issues- and got himself elected to the Senate, which began the political career track that led him to the Presidency.

So do we know for certain that Lincoln was "possessed" by a 4D entity who had the specific goal of ending slavery?  No, of course not.  But nothing I know of in Lincoln's timeline actually contradicts it, and it would explain how/why he re-entered politics when his prior attempt had been a pretty humiliating failure.

(08-10-2016, 02:40 AM)Chandlersdad Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-10-2016, 12:34 AM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote: [ -> ]How can I know Ra is wrong? I didn't know Abraham Lincoln or when he became weary of life, I wasn't there when the pyramids were built - all I have are stories that have been retold. Mythology. Ra offers the same thing. If Ra's mythology conflicts too much with the one you already have, then maybe it isn't for you. Or, since it seems you're hopelessly addicted to this cycle, dive in and embrace the juicy catalyst you have given yourself. No one outside of you will have the answers - shoot, if you're not satisfied with what Ra has to say, how can you be satisfied with our attempts to refute??

I have a question for you, Chandlersdad: Do you meditate?

Quote:5.2 Questioner: We have decided to accept, if offered, the honor/duty of learning/teaching the healing process. I would ask as to the first step which we should accomplish in becoming effective healers.

Ra: I am Ra. We shall begin with the first of the three teachings/learnings.

We begin with the mental learn/teachings necessary for contact with intelligent infinity. The prerequisite of mental work is the ability to retain silence of self at a steady state when required by the self. The mind must be opened like a door. The key is silence.

None of this will ever make sense if you try to solve the riddles with your logical mind alone.

So instead of simply explaining how Lincoln could have been weary of the Civil War in 1853 when it did not start until 1861, you ask "do you meditate?" Actually, I have been meditating since the early 80's on a daily basis. But meditation is not meant to make you stupid when it comes to glaring discrepancies like this.

I asked about meditation because it seems often that when people find the Ra material and have a lot of questions, that they haven't asked the questions within. That's what meditation is for. I was under the impression that Ricdaw explained what would have made Lincoln weary with his life path at 1853 adequately from a historical buff's point of view. So why are you still stuck on this point? Ra is terrible with translating numbers and dates anyway, so to get so worked about about something so nebulous - something that can essentially be likened to a dream had by someone else almost 200 years ago - seems too much for me.

I can work on relating the history (again) for you. Lincoln was 52 in 1853 - he was a lawyer and a congressman up until this time. He was strongly opposed to the Mexican-American war (1846), to the point where he thought it would make him lose his congress seat, but it didn't. He also served as a captain in the Blackhawk War (1832). In between those years, as ricdaw showed, was a lot more killing of Mexicans and Native Americans for "manifest destiny" purposes. He was also outspoken about slavery beginning in the 1830's as well. I found all of this out by skimming his wikipedia page.

(08-10-2016, 03:07 AM)APeacefulWarrior Wrote: [ -> ]No offense, but you and\or Mandelker are reading things into that particular Ra comment which were not there.  I'll quote the substance for convenience:

APW, thanks for your post and thanks for actually quoting the Q&A in question.

Chandlersdad, I've noticed a few times now that, in addition to speaking on something Ra actually did say, you've laid critiques on things Ra said that . . . Ra didn't say.

This is not to rebuff criticism itself - critique is healthy and helpful. It's only to request that if you're going to say, "Ra said such and such," that you quote the relevant material that is bending you out of shape, thereby anchoring and grounding your analysis into the actual text.

In this case had the quote been provided it would have been clear that, as APeacefulWarrior pointed out, Ra says nothing about the Civil War transpiring in 1853, the center-point of your argument.

Many thanks and blessings to your continued study. I'm not sure that you're finding the material actually helpful but whether from this source or another, I hope you find the Creator within the self, as the self.

(08-09-2016, 11:56 PM)Chandlersdad Wrote: [ -> ]Well, that's the problem. How can you really just pick and choose.

There is an important metaphysical point about "history" I'd like to make, although it is technically not in the Ra Material.  (Go to the Seth Material for source.)  

In as few words as possible (I'll try).

History is neither linear, nor fixed.  The only true "time" is now.  What we think of as "history" is actually consensus history but, in metaphysical fact, there are many (many many infinitely many) probable histories.  We collectively pick the one we want to believe in from the NOW.

For ET or astral plane sources speaking to us through channels, this presents a bit of a conundrum.  Because they see our "history" as a wave function of probabilities that we have (not unanimously) chosen to view as only one true or "real" history.  But to them all the others are equally real because they too really did occur.  (See multiverse theory in physics.)  So even really big historical things like the crucifixion of Christ, are actually described quite differently by different channeled sources.  From, yes it did happen as the bible says, to no, Christ went on to live in India to a nice old age.  The sources are not trying to deceive, but they have a hard time correctly selecting the psychologically "real" consensus history that we have chosen to believe in.  And when you add the complication of dates, it gets only worse. . . .

There are groups of people who pay attention to, and report, "time shifts" and other reality glitches in our everyday consensus reality.  Things like celebrity deaths, when we "recall" that same celebrity death being announced in the past.  We dismiss these as "I guess I mis-remembered" but metaphysically, it is kinda accepted that the person who remembers differently has "shifted" time streams to a slightly different consensus reality.

Nether the past nor the future are "fixed."  They are equally subjective and probabilistic.  The only point of power is the present.  Everything else is imaginary.

If you come to channeled material with an assumption that the past is fixed and unchangeable, (modern scientific method) then you are using a method that does not work in metaphysical environments (try astral projecting to a physical place and you will discover that it is ALWAYS different, see Robert Monroe) and it is a method that does not accurately describe "the past."  It is unwise to try and validate channeled material in this way.  It won't work.

I personally doubted Ra until book 4 when they started talking about tarot.  I am a tarot reader and I had already been moving way off the beaten path in knowing what those cards mean.  But when I read Ra's descriptions of the meanings and purpose of the cards I KNEW IT WAS CORRECT.  I watched Don and group struggle mightily with some concepts and meanings, so I knew they were not "injecting" their own beliefs into the material.  But I totally got what Ra was saying.  It is the singular clearest best description of the esoteric tarot, bar none.  

So, does the fact that book 4 is "true" to me mean that I have to accept as true everything in books 1, 2, 3 and 5?  No.  But it sure makes me think long and hard before I reject those other teachings.

Ra repeatedly warned the group that focusing on transient information jeopardized the connection to Ra and such focusing also brought through the channel less-clear and less trustworthy information.  Historical walk-in information is that very kind of trivia.  I personally discount most of the voyeuristic questions that Don asked about historical figures, and Ra's answers to them.  There is no such things a "singular" person to describe.  Ask my mother about me and there will be a thousand contradictory truths.  Because does she describe me as a 4 year old?  20?  Before my spiritual experience of after?  Me now?  All of the above?  You can play this scenario out for yourself and see why it is fundamentally silly to ask about historical figures.  The answers have to be so averaged over the entire lifetime of the historical figure that they become platitudes or generic cardboard descriptions without useful specific content.

If you cannot pick and choose from channeled information, even when the channel expressly and unambiguously says that that is exactly what you need to do, then I suggest you might still be carrying around some unconscious scientific method thinking to the table.  The scientific method is for physics, not metaphysics.  (It's not for quantum physics either, but that is a totally different discussion!) The "truth method" of metaphysics is psychological truth not reproducible truth.  It is, inherently and fundamentally, an act of faith.  The touchstone for metaphysical truth lies within.  See: tarot card zero (the fool), tarot card two (the high priestess), tarot card 17 (the star), tarot card 18 (the moon).

Sorry to take so many words.  It's a hard topic to condense.  

Great post, ricdaw.

Yeah, I feel exactly the same way, ricdaw. I just rarely bother trying to type all that out either. I consider Ra to be far more an authority on "big picture" stuff than on the various historical details and conspiracy-theoryish questions the group tended to ask about. At least with his Lincoln stuff, it does more or less fit into our commonly-agreed narrative for what happened in his life.

But a lot of the trivialities like discussions of how many alien ships the government may or may not be hiding... A)we'll probably never know for certain, and B)it just doesn't matter either. Ra was trying to impart larger-scale information about the LOO, karma, reincarnation, the structure of higher "dimensions" and existences, etc. Like you say, at points he was all but begging the group to ask questions with more philosophical substance. (Not to mention that one infamous session which totally derailed because they wouldn't stop asking UFO questions.)

Plus, yeah, for all we know Ra was sometimes accidentally telling the history of Earth-1217 rather than our Earth-1218. Like we could tell the difference, and he may not have been able to either.

(08-10-2016, 01:05 PM)ricdaw Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-09-2016, 11:56 PM)Chandlersdad Wrote: [ -> ]Well, that's the problem. How can you really just pick and choose. 

If you cannot pick and choose from channeled information, even when the channel expressly and unambiguously says that that is exactly what you need to do, then I suggest you might still be carrying around some unconscious scientific method thinking to the table.  The scientific method is for physics, not metaphysics.  (It's not for quantum physics either, but that is a totally different discussion!) The "truth method" of metaphysics is psychological truth not reproducible truth.  It is, inherently and fundamentally, an act of faith.  The touchstone for metaphysical truth lies within.  See: tarot card zero (the fool), tarot card two (the high priestess), tarot card 17 (the star), tarot card 18 (the moon).

Sorry to take so many words.  It's a hard topic to condense.  

always blown away by the level of discernment here in the forums. Love it and so entirely grateful. Funny thing I'm thinking about Andrew Bartzis description of timeline wars, a lot of it fit in with what Ra was trying to describe Galactic Historical wise, painted a nice picture, though none of it admittingly taught me anymore about the reintegration shadow work, to become your own mother and your own father. SMC Ra's main goal afterall was assisting with Harvest, rather than all the history leading up to it.

In comparing this with my past life data, it would mean that one of the principle reasons Harvest was next to nothing in terms of learning to polarize STO, the strength of will, never sufficient to penetrate the learning process and examine catalyst. I've come to learn the powers that be used to be students of the Law of One a long time ago. I learned that a lot of people along the way were more interested in transient things even during the atlantean age. I've come to more of an acceptance to the idea of becoming, and that things, people, are placed here in this density in an incomplete state for the purposes of refinement.

In regards to this thread, I was going to react one way, then I decided to read the comments from the other members who feel more or less the same. It's like you're all my clones! So instead I'll write the goal of the game is to lay down your cards in the melting influence of love and state no matter what your cards may be, I love you.

I learned a lesson in polarization just reading the comments here, going to the Law of One forums is like taking a love light, light love pill, bam! wham! omg.. i know kung fu!


Also I would state that the most important thing for Chandlers dad to focus on would probably be the chakras themselves though after years I can now state that there is a full difference between knowing the Law of One vs living the Law of One. I personally work in Customer service, and my intention to help was not always received as helpful, but sometimes as demeaning or condescending. In these interactions I learned this was catalyst showing me that intent does not always translate into our actions. Sometimes we intend for something good, but we don't realize that our foot also stomped the flowers just next to it.

I think it's someplace where we have all been, and perhaps someplace where wanderers are possibly more sensitive to, almost as if being sad is not having enough energy, and being overly blissed out is almost having too much. If I am to understand flow is always flowing, no more no less? Sorry to get way out there, this is my attempt to lay my cards flat down on the table and say whatever your cards, I Love you!

(08-10-2016, 01:05 PM)ricdaw Wrote: [ -> ]There is an important metaphysical point about "history" I'd like to make, although it is technically not in the Ra Material.  (Go to the Seth Material for source.)  

In as few words as possible (I'll try).

History is neither linear, nor fixed.  The only true "time" is now.  What we think of as "history" is actually consensus history but, in metaphysical fact, there are many (many many infinitely many) probable histories.  We collectively pick the one we want to believe in from the NOW.

...

To me this is a BRILLIANT answer. You gave me much food for thought. I had forgotten completely about the liquidity of past and future, as also detailed by SETH (I have all the books and read them religiously in the 70's and 80's). Your answer resolved the matter for me completely and has changed my attitude toward such mundane issues with the Ra material. Bless you for posting this. I assume others may respond, but this says it all for me.     Your response took you time and effort and I do appreciate it. Your post acted as a significant catalyst for me. You never know what your words can do and be.

(08-10-2016, 04:09 PM)BlatzAdict Wrote: [ -> ]always blown away by the level of discernment here in the forums. Love it and so entirely grateful. Funny thing I'm thinking about Andrew Bartzis description of timeline wars, a lot of it fit in with what Ra was trying to describe Galactic Historical wise, painted a nice picture, though none of it admittingly taught me anymore about the reintegration shadow work, to become your own mother and your own father. Social Memory Complex Ra's main goal afterall was assisting with Harvest, rather than all the history leading up to it.

...

I think it's someplace where we have all been, and perhaps someplace where wanderers are possibly more sensitive to, almost as if being sad is not having enough energy, and being overly blissed out is almost having too much. If I am to understand flow is always flowing, no more no less? Sorry to get way out there, this is my attempt to lay my cards flat down on the table and say whatever your cards, I Love you!

Something just CLICKED for me. Suddenly, I feel like this issue is irrelevant. I am seeing all this from another vantage point. Thank you and others.  You never know when your words may change someone's outlook, act as catalyst for a sort of melonia (shift in spiritual outlook). RICDAW did that for me. Your post wrapped it up nicely also. This is not to ignore others who wrote.

Ricdaw I concur with others in finding your post particularly brilliant. I however disagree with its principal premise, that being that the past consist of shifting probabilities, perhaps shifting in proportion to our present point of view. (“Present” here used in a temporal sense, not the eternal one.)

Even if we are on a “choose your own adventure” path whereby we continually pluck one path from an ambiance of infinite probabilities; and even if there are multitudinous versions of ourselves out there in the multi-verse – parallel dimensions where Truman chose not to drop the atomic bomb, or Lincoln chose not to preserve the union – we writing in the forums at this moment are on one particular timeline that is part of a continuum of countless, I contend, fixed decisions and choices before us.

Atomic energy was developed. We now live in a nuclear age capable of powering cities and of destroying the planet. The personal computer was invented followed not long thereafter by the internet. We now communicate in the forums, among other new realities. Women spent much of the past few thousand years in most cultures being treated as second-class people or worse, we now experience countless ramifications as a result. These events have happened and continue to shape our present experience within the realm of space/time.

As Tolle would remind us we needn’t be chained to the past: entrance into the present moment and forgiveness can release us from those cycles. He, along with Ra, would also remind us that those seemingly historical events happened in the only “place” they can happen: in the eternal present moment. But neither reminder denies or erases the actuality of said events in space/time.

Regarding the different testimonies that may appear about one individual, including the different versions your mom may share about you, why would that be not attributable to subjective eye-of-the-beholder perception? And the various distortions therein.

There will naturally be hundreds of millions of perceptions and vantage points on 9/11, say, but that doesn’t mean that each one describes what actually happened. Certainly there is a validity to each person’s point of view on any subject, even if they choose to believe the moon is made of cheese. That doesn’t mean, however, that the moon is, actually, made of cheese. (If a qualifier is needed, then: that doesn’t mean, however, that the moon is actually made of cheese in this particular stream of space/time.)

I think it potentially unhinging and even dangerous to say that history is that flexible, fluid, subjective, and probabilistic that there are no fixed, objective events. Certainly our perceptions, understanding, and retroactive experience of history is such, but asserting that the historical past (however illusory it, like everything else, may ultimately be against the backdrop of eternity) is probabilistic is to ratify holocaust deniers and others who would intentionally revise history to suit present, negative agendas. Or, more comically, the assertions of Christian fundamentalists that the Earth is 4,000 years old.

What would be the point, then, of “fact-checking” the statements made by a presidential campaign?

*********************************************

There are a few instances where Ra comments on the nature/experience of history:

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Quote:82.14 Questioner: Did this in fact happen on some of the planets or on a large percentage of the planets near the center of this galaxy in this way?

Ra: I am Ra. Our knowledge is limited. We know of the beginning but cannot asseverate to the precise experiences of those things occurring before us. You know the nature of historical teaching. At our level of learn/teaching we may expect little distortion. However, we cannot, with surety, say there is no distortion as we speak of specific occurrences of which we were not consciously a part. It is our understanding that your supposition is correct. Thus we so hypothesize.

Here I interpret Ra as acknowledging the difficulty of understanding what actually happened before one's present experience because of the limitations of time, the subjectivity of perception, the accumulated layers of subjective perception over long spans of time, and whatever other hosts of distortions may enter the picture.

However, Ra indicates that it is possible to understand historical events with a reduction in distortion, at least at their level of experience.

But, they do indicate that their purpose with the group is not to be a teacher of history:

Quote:2.2 Ra: The teach/learning which is our responsibility is philosophical rather than historical.

In the following Q&A they say something that at first glance seems more in accord with your position,  but I don’t take it to substantiate the point of view that history is probabilistic. Why? Because, from the standpoint of the Big Picture, one can place the word “no” in front of everything that seems real to us. There is “no” right/wrong, past/future, STO STS, space/time, imperfection, incompleteness, lack of wholeness, or separation.

Indeed there is no anything save for infinity, whatever that is.

Quote:[url=http://www.lawofone.info/results.php?s=16]16.21 Questioner: Can you give me some kind of history of your social memory complex and how you became aware of the Law of One?

Ra: I am Ra. The path of our learning is graven in the present moment. There is no history, as we understand your concept. Picture, if you will, a circle of being. We know the alpha and omega as infinite intelligence. The circle never ceases. It is present. The densities we have traversed at various points in the circle correspond to the characteristics of cycles: first, the cycle of awareness; second, the cycle of growth; third, the cycle of self-awareness; fourth, the cycle of love or understanding; fifth, the cycle of light or wisdom; sixth, the cycle of light/love, love/light, or unity; seventh, the gateway cycle; eighth, the octave which moves into a mystery we do not plumb.

But, within the constructs of the creation, whatever its depth of illusion, I contend that there is a fixed history in our past space/time.

Now if I could just complete work on my functioning time machine . . .

(08-11-2016, 10:36 AM)Bring4th_GLB Wrote: [ -> ]Ricdaw I concur with others in finding your post particularly brilliant. I however disagree with its principal premise, that being that the past consist of shifting probabilities, perhaps shifting in proportion to our present point of view. (“Present” here used in a temporal sense, not the eternal one.)

Even if we are on a “choose your own adventure” path whereby we continually pluck one path from an ambiance of infinite probabilities; and even if there are multitudinous versions of ourselves out there in the multi-verse – parallel dimensions where Truman chose not to drop the atomic bomb, or Lincoln chose not to preserve the union – we writing in the forums at this moment are on one particular timeline that is part of a continuum of countless, I contend, fixed decisions and choices before us.

I think I can partially reconcile this, or at least muse for a bit about something I've been pondering lately since I'm something of a history geek.

More or less, I think our history is becoming less probabilistic as technology advances. It's really only in the last 200 years that we've developed technologies - photography, audio recording, film, and now digital recordkeeping - which allow a truly permanent record of times go by. And because we now fill our lives with artifacts proving our own past, it makes it all but impossible for anyone to seriously believe that Truman didn't drop the bomb. We have a bazillon pictures of the Manhattan Project and the Enola Gay and Hiroshima and shadows laminated to walls and all that. It's effectively undeniable.

And since reality is largely consensus-based, that means our recent history has basically become fixed. It can't be fluid because we've developed systems which prevent it from being fluid.

(Whether this is good or bad, I don't know, and I'm not speaking to.)

But if you go back much further than the 1800s, and suddenly things start getting fuzzy, really quickly. And once you go back before the invention of printing presses, history really does start getting probabilistic, at least from our point of view. Actually getting what records exist to actually line up in some sort of comprehensible way is ridiculously difficult. Even the birth and deaths of incredibly major figures in history are often questionable.

Ricdaw brought up Jesus, who lived during the Roman times, and the Romans loved bookkeeping. But historians can't even agree on whether he lived at all, much less when and which of the Biblical accounts are correct. They pretty much just play the odds. Even though most believe there was a Historical Jesus of some kind, what he "actually" did is almost totally up for grabs. For that matter, it's the same with the prophet Mohammed. The early Arabs\Muslims were INCREDIBLY obsessed with keeping records of things, and there are even a few mentions of Mohammed in writings from various other groups around that time... but we can't seem to get the dates to quite line up. Other historians point at documents which suggest he may have lived a few decades later than traditionally thought, or may not have even originally lived in the Mecca area.

Between the problems with accurate timekeeping at the time, the problems of dating documents we find, the fuzziness of people's eyewitness accounts, and the propensity of historians of the past to lie through their teeth for political reasons, the vast majority of history prior to 1500 or so is basically a big foggy cloud with only occasional patches of visibility. Hell, I tend to suspect that one of the reasons military history is so popular is that wars are one of the few things pre-modern humans did which left so much corroborating evidence that we can actually say with some certainty that they happened.

Maybe we are on a single fixed timeline, but it's pretty much impossible to prove once you go back a few hundred years. And there's a lot of room for theories like Ricdaw was advancing to remain true.

And your post made me remember one other odd personal detail...

Quote:There will naturally be hundreds of millions of perceptions and vantage points on 9/11, say, but that doesn’t mean that each one describes what actually happened.

So, funny thing. My memory of 9/11 is being alone in the little studio apt I was renting at the time, fighting with constantly-crashing websites trying to get news of what the hell had actually happened. Yet when I brought it up a few years after the event, I had two friends who SWEAR that I was with them the whole time, and I was living in an apartment with one of them which -as I remember things- I didn't move into until a few months after 9/11.

Same day, but we have utterly conflicting memories of how it happened.

Funny about that.

(08-11-2016, 10:36 AM)Bring4th_GLB Wrote: [ -> ]Ricdaw I concur with others in finding your post particularly brilliant. I however disagree with its principal premise, that being that the past consist of shifting probabilities, perhaps shifting in proportion to our present point of view. (“Present” here used in a temporal sense, not the eternal one.)

Even if we are on a “choose your own adventure” path whereby we continually pluck one path from an ambiance of infinite probabilities; and even if there are multitudinous versions of ourselves out there in the multi-verse – parallel dimensions where Truman chose not to drop the atomic bomb, or Lincoln chose not to preserve the union – we writing in the forums at this moment are on one particular timeline that is part of a continuum of countless, I contend, fixed decisions and choices before us.

Hi GLB!

I didn’t intend to contaminate a Ra forum with other channeled material, but The Seth Material explains at great length (book after book after book) that the probabilistic past is how things actually work.  This is not to say that the past is so malleable that we can “choose” the one where Truman did not drop the bomb.  We live in a consensus reality and the fact is that we, you me and everyone else, have collectively chosen the past where the bomb did drop.  So as a practical matter, on the macro level, there is only one past.  I was only explaining why entities outside our collective 3d physical reality might legitimately describe other “pasts” to us when they channel because from their vantage point there are multiple pasts that they can see.

I have an analogy.  Newtonian physics is incredibly effective in describing our physical universe and the various laws of physics, but we actually know that quantum physics and relativity are a more basic understanding of how things really operate.  Newton posits an objective billiard-ball cause-and-effective objective universe.  But the true nature of our reality is entirely subjective and it exists only as a wave of probabilities until such time as it is observed whereupon the wave collapses to an actual state (quantum physics).   Still, no one abandons Newtonian physics because it is so useful.  It works.  

The past works in the same way.  In everyday life, we all accept one past (like Newtonian physics) but in actuality the past is subjectively chosen out of a multitude of possible pasts (like quantum physics).

While macro events (crucifixion, dropping atomic bombs, the holocaust) are consensus fixed, the fluid probabilistic actual nature of the past is incredibly useful at the micro level.  Seth describes how to (essentially) change your own personal past to achieve healings.  Seth also describes how we can slide between consensus realities.  But since we are always ending up in a reality where everyone else believes the same thing that we believe, it doesn’t seem like we have shifted.

(08-11-2016, 10:36 AM)Bring4th_GLB Wrote: [ -> ]Regarding the different testimonies that may appear about one individual, including the different versions your mom may share about you, why would that be not attributable to subjective eye-of-the-beholder perception? And the various distortions therein.

Subjective perception is another rational explanation.  I agree.  It’s just not what Seth taught.  I have explored the Seth explanation, experienced personal reality shifts, and find it psychologically true, i.e. my inner truth-sense validates its authenticity.  If you are interested in exploring it, the Seth Material is the place to go.  There are forums and groups analyzing Seth in exactly the same way we analyze Ra here.  It is quit trippy.

(08-11-2016, 10:36 AM)Bring4th_GLB Wrote: [ -> ]I think it potentially unhinging and even dangerous to say that history is that flexible, fluid, subjective, and probabilistic that there are no fixed, objective events. Certainly our perceptions, understanding, and retroactive experience of history is such, but asserting that the historical past (however illusory it, like everything else, may ultimately be against the backdrop of eternity) is probabilistic is to ratify holocaust deniers and others who would intentionally revise history to suit present, negative agendas. Or, more comically, the assertions of Christian fundamentalists that the Earth is 4,000 years old.

I do not speak of the flexible, fluid, subjective nature of the past with the general public, but here among philosophers and students of the Ra Material.  I don’t think it is dangerous in this forum.  Because we are dealing with metaphysics, however, it is important to be true to the subjective nature of metaphysics.

Here is a head twister for you.  Seth and Ra agree on the nature of the Higher Self, it can be viewed from our perspective as our future self.  Fine and dandy.  But as the Higher Self interacts with its past selves (you and me and everyone) it changes the past.  Seth confessed, in the later books, to being Jane Robert’s future self.  And yet, at the same time, he said that he was different when he was Jane.  !!!

This is a recursive looping relationship.  Each time you or I advance to become our Higher Self, and we go about the task of “helping” our past self, we create a different past self.  And then when that new past self advances on to become a future Higher Self, and he helps his past self, he creates yet another version of the past self.  Ad infinitum.  

Intelligent Infinity can sustain an infinite number of universes.

Intelligent Infinity wants us to explore every aspect of our selves.

So when I had the choice 20 years ago to move to New York and become a high powered corporate lawyer, after a long struggle and thought, I decided to stay.  But I know that another me split off and did go to New York and became that lawyer.  My probable self is actual and that thought-form is currently exploring that choice all the way unto death.  It will be fun to see how that went, in the Afterlife Review.  Seth would describe for Jane what some of her “counterparts” and alternative selves were doing, when asked.  More trippy.

I take enormous comfort in the fact that both past and future are probabilistic and in the existence of the multi-verse.  Because it means that the tiny spark of the creator known as “me” gets to explore all that I could want to explore in each lifetime.  Unlike the “choose your own adventure” approach of a single linear time, I get to explore all the options in the book.  Many “me’s” get to explore each branch.  I don’t have to regret past choices because I know that I am (100% absolute certainty) also exploring all those roads not taken.

We are genius surfers on a sea of probabilities.  The Magician surfs on the subconscious Seas of the High Priestess.    

We are gods, each of us.  We individually create a “big bang” of personal universes as we travel through life just like All That Is created Everything in the beginning.  How could we do any less?  We are All One.

(08-11-2016, 11:12 AM)APeacefulWarrior Wrote: [ -> ]So, funny thing.  My memory of 9/11 is being alone in the little studio apt I was renting at the time, fighting with constantly-crashing websites trying to get news of what the hell had actually happened.  Yet when I brought it up a few years after the event, I had two friends who SWEAR that I was with them the whole time, and I was living in an apartment with one of them which -as I remember things- I didn't move into until a few months after 9/11.

Same day, but we have utterly conflicting memories of how it happened.

Funny about that.

Visit a Seth forum and your experience will fit right in. You made a reality shift. These things happen all the time.

Here's one of mine. As I was going through heart-chakra-explosion while reading the book Seth Speak: The Eternal Validity of the Soul, I remember viscerally how I would be frantically highlighting with my lawyer yellow highlighting pens whole paragraphs of stunning information in the book. Even whole pages. The highlight would bleed through the pages. I killed two highlight pens reading that one book.

Skip 16 years. I pick up that same book for a re-read. Yes, there are some highlighted paragraphs here and there. No whole pages. And the stuff that's highlighted is not even the important stuff. It's like it was someone else's book. But it really is mine. I know know know know know that I was on a highlighting binge the first time. It was how I processed information as a lawyer. It was an ingrained habit. Yet, those highlights are 99% gone. Reality shift validation while learning about reality shifting.

Oh I could tell stories of synchronicity, altered perceptions, and reality shift that occurred AS I WAS READING THE BOOK which make this silly example pale in comparison. But to have another validation 16 years later just made me shiver up my back and feel all warm and loved inside.

Look for things lost for years, then found. Broken things that are suddenly whole. Houses that you used to play in around the corner as a kid, but now it is an undeveloped lot and no one believes a house was ever there. Clues. Pay attention. There is more wonder and magic in our lives than you can imagine.

(08-09-2016, 06:45 PM)Chandlersdad Wrote: [ -> ]I just studied Session 35, which contains a metaphysical biography of Abraham Lincoln by Ra.  

Can someone who knows history of this period help me?

RA claims that in 1853 Lincoln was weary of war and conflict. He was NOT suicidal but he was weary of life. In a dream, a 4 D positive entity (probably from the Confederation) contacted him and agreed to WALK IN and live the rest of Lincoln's life for him. The entity previously known as Lincoln then went to an astral resting place, presumably where Carla goes during her trance channeling sessions.

My problem is the year 1853.

How could Lincoln possibly be laden down with grief and guilt over the massive death caused by the Civil War when the war did not start until 1861?

This does not make any 3 D chronological sense. I am sure there were pressures and great stress leading up to the actual outbreak of the Civil War. But how could Lincoln have been worn out by 1853 in response to an event that did not start until 1861?

Calling all Ra apologists! You are needed to make sense out of this seeming boo boo on Ra's part.

CAVEAT: against all logical advice, I am still focusing on the Scott Mandelker lectures on YOUTUBE to study each session. Perhaps Scott errored in attributing Lincoln's "weariness of life" to the war. Obviously, that is simply not possible unless Lincoln was a time traveler. From the movies we know he was a Vampire Killer. LOL

Thanks.

Can you provide evidence for this post? I don't know who Scott Mandelker is and honestly don't care to find out.
I echo APeacefulWarrior's and GLB's first posts.

Quote:8 Questioner: Well in that case I would like to know the motivation for this use of Abraham Lincoln’s body at that time?

Ra: I am Ra. This shall be the last full query of this session as we find the instrument quite low in vital energies.

The one known as Abraham had an extreme difficulty in many ways and, due to physical, mental, and spiritual pain, was weary of life but without the orientation to self-destruction. In your time, 1853, this entity was contacted in sleep by a fourth-density being. This being was concerned with the battle between the forces of light and the forces of darkness which have been waged in fourth density for many of your years.

This entity accepted the honor/duty of completing the one known as Abraham’s karmic patterns and the one known as Abraham discovered that this entity would attempt those things which the one known as Abraham desired to do but felt it could not. Thus the exchange was made.

The entity, Abraham, was taken to a plane of suspension until the cessation of its physical vehicle much as though we of Ra would arrange with this instrument to remain in the vehicle, come out of the trance state, and function as this instrument, leaving this instrument’s mind and spirit complex in its suspended state.

The planetary energies at this time were at what seemed to this entity to be at a critical point, for that which you know as freedom had gained in acceptance as a possibility among many peoples. This entity saw the work done by those beginning the democratic concept of freedom, as you call it, in danger of being abridged or abrogated by the rising belief and use of the principle of the enslavement of entities. This is a negative concept of a fairly serious nature in your density. This entity, therefore, went forward into what it saw as the battle for the light, for healing of a rupture in the concept of freedom.

This entity did not gain or lose karma by these activities due to its detachment from any outcome. Its attitude throughout was one of service to others, more especially to the downtrodden or enslaved. The polarity of the individual was somewhat, but not severely, lessened by the cumulative feelings and thought-forms which were created due to large numbers of entities leaving the physical plane due to trauma of battle.

Don't see it here.. no mention of the civil war.. I can only infer something about the civil war towards the end of the passage where Ra does an after action report, and lays out Abraham's status after the entity that was using his body did all of the activities he wanted to do which Ra says continued until Lincoln's death. He died in 1865.

(08-11-2016, 01:35 PM)ricdaw Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-11-2016, 11:12 AM)APeacefulWarrior Wrote: [ -> ]So, funny thing.  My memory of 9/11 is being alone in the little studio apt I was renting at the time, fighting with constantly-crashing websites trying to get news of what the hell had actually happened.  Yet when I brought it up a few years after the event, I had two friends who SWEAR that I was with them the whole time, and I was living in an apartment with one of them which -as I remember things- I didn't move into until a few months after 9/11.

Same day, but we have utterly conflicting memories of how it happened.

Funny about that.

Visit a Seth forum and your experience will fit right in.  You made a reality shift.  These things happen all the time.  

Heh. Well, at times like these, I turn to one of my favorite quotes from The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy:

"Perhaps I'm old and tired, but I think that the chances of finding out what's actually going on are so absurdly remote that the only thing to do is to say, "Hang the sense of it," and keep yourself busy. I'd much rather be happy than right any day."

There was one comment on a Seth forum that in my opinion greatly describes how we influence our past through the present. Now, it is to be considered that just as this can be done individually, so can it be done collectively. Here is the comment:

Quote:From the perspective of Big Deb in 2016: She has altered her past by watching the TV show on violins and communicating her emotional response so powerfully to Little Deb. Before that TV show in 2016, Little Deb never received a violin on her 11th birthday in 1961. But because of the TV show, Little Deb has now taken actions that have resulted in her now receiving the violin on her 11th birthday.

This would then become a “new” probable reality that Big Deb chose to physicalize in 2016.

This "new" past event of 1961--bleeds thru to the waking, conscious Big Deb in 2016 as a sudden memory. And Big Deb, while eating pizza with a friend, says to the friend, "You know, I just remember that when I was 11 years old I got a violin from my parents for my birthday."

What has happened, from the blinking analogy, is that 2016-Deb has blinked back into physical reality--and in the "bubble" of past, present, future--which had usually appeared as continual--there has been a change. This change in the past of the “new” bubble--appears as a sudden memory, or something "I hadn't thought about for a real long time." Then, in all the bubbles to come, she may include this “new” memory as part of an ongoing past memories.

Wow, everybody's post about shifting past is synchronistic. I'm studying Infinity and Consciousness through an online course. And covering the I AM.
I've been watching YouTube videos about parallel realities as of two days ago, and I come here and see these posts. They are enlightening.

I recommend the movie "Frequency" if you want to see someone change their past.

In some other parallel reality:

(08-11-2016, 01:35 PM)ricdaw Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-11-2016, 11:12 AM)APeacefulWarrior Wrote: [ -> ]So, funny thing.  My memory of 9/11 is being alone in the little studio apt I was renting at the time, fighting with constantly-crashing websites trying to get news of what the hell had actually happened.  Yet when I brought it up a few years after the event, I had two friends who SWEAR that I was with them the whole time, and I was living in an apartment with one of them which -as I remember things- I didn't move into until a few months after 9/11.

Same day, but we have utterly conflicting memories of how it happened.

Funny about that.

Visit a Seth forum and your experience will fit right in.  You made a reality shift.  These things happen all the time.  

Here's one of mine.  As I was going through heart-chakra-explosion while reading the book Seth Speak: The Eternal Validity of the Soul, I remember viscerally how I would be frantically highlighting with my lawyer yellow highlighting pens whole paragraphs of stunning information in the book.  Even whole pages. The highlight would bleed through the pages.  I killed two highlight pens reading that one book.

Skip 16 years.  I pick up that same book for a re-read.  Yes, there are some highlighted paragraphs here and there.  No whole pages.  And the stuff that's highlighted is not even the important stuff.  It's like it was someone else's book.  But it really is mine.  I know know know know know that I was on a highlighting binge the first time.  It was how I processed information as a lawyer.  It was an ingrained habit.  Yet, those highlights are 99% gone.  Reality shift validation while learning about reality shifting.  

Oh I could tell stories of synchronicity, altered perceptions, and reality shift that occurred AS I WAS READING THE BOOK which make this silly example pale in comparison.  But to have another validation 16 years later just made me shiver up my back and feel all warm and loved inside.  

Look for things lost for years, then found.  Broken things that are suddenly whole.  Houses that you used to play in around the corner as a kid, but now it is an undeveloped lot and no one believes a house was ever there.  Clues.  Pay attention.  There is more wonder and magic in our lives than you can imagine.

Comment Removed By Author 8-17-16.

(08-11-2016, 02:54 PM)APeacefulWarrior Wrote: [ -> ][quote='ricdaw' pid='210894' dateline='1470936900']
[quote='APeacefulWarrior' pid='210885' dateline='1470928378']


Heh.  Well, at times like these, I turn to one of my favorite quotes from The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy:

"Perhaps I'm old and tired, but I think that the chances of finding out what's actually going on are so absurdly remote that the only thing to do is to say, "Hang the sense of it," and keep yourself busy. I'd much rather be happy than right any day."

THIS is the primary teaching I took from Hitchhiker's Guide. I doubt that 3 density humans can really ever understand what is going on. In fact, I believe Ra said as much, that full understanding is NOT part of the 3rd Density human's capabilities. So I study for enrichment but ultimately let it go. I am not going to devote the rest of my life to argue about how many angels can stand on the head of a pin.

The rooms for the workers came much later than the pyramid was constructed. The only graffiti or markings of any kind is the misspelled version of the name Khufu-probably scratched in by the loser who was trying to prove it was his tomb. Ridiculous, as it would have required a block be set every minute or so from the day Khufu was born to be finished by the time he died (35years later I think).

Lincoln timeline: http://www.abrahamlincolnonline.org/linc...meline.htm He was very depressed after his son died in 1850. The passage to which you refer does not say that Lincoln was weary. It says the 4D entity knew what was about to happen and offered Abe an out.

(08-14-2016, 06:19 PM)Chandlersdad Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-11-2016, 11:12 AM)APeacefulWarrior Wrote: [ -> ]Heh.  Well, at times like these, I turn to one of my favorite quotes from The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy:

"Perhaps I'm old and tired, but I think that the chances of finding out what's actually going on are so absurdly remote that the only thing to do is to say, "Hang the sense of it," and keep yourself busy. I'd much rather be happy than right any day."

THIS is the primary teaching I took from Hitchhiker's Guide.  I doubt that 3 density humans can really ever understand what is going on. In fact, I believe Ra said as much, that full understanding is NOT part of the 3rd Density human's capabilities. So I study for enrichment but ultimately let it go. I am not going to devote the rest of my life to argue about how many angels can stand on the head of a pin.  

I've taken a LOT of teachings from HHG over the years. Douglas Adams was a far smarter and wiser dude than a lot of people gave him credit for. As another example, he taught me how to visualize n-dimensional spaces. I was high and re-reading Restaurant At The End Of The Universe, and I hit the section describing the restaurant itself right about the same time I peaked. It occurred to me that the list of 'impossible' things the restaurant does seemed REALLY specific, and I started wondering "What if he actually worked this out?"

So I realized the trick would be to try to visualize what day-to-day life for a Milliways employee would look like and then... BAM. My brain broke and I suddenly understood how higher dimensionality might work. Even better, it remained broken after I came down.

He was very good at breaking brains, I think.