Bring4th

It's back again, that eternal feeling. I am filled with love, just like you, I thank us for this experience. I cannot stop feeling the loneliness of Unity being all that is, that nothing else exist, but me.

I think it would be paradoxal for it to be otherwise.

I do also wonder if we experience loneliness as separate beings and that this is a foreign or indirectly known emotion to our united self.

(08-17-2016, 07:38 AM)Papercut Wrote: [ -> ]It's back again, that eternal feeling. I am filled with love, just like you, I thank us for this experience. I cannot stop feeling the loneliness of Unity being all that is, that nothing else exist, but me.

In my humble opinion, the one is not lonely. Loneliness requires a relationship between self and others (a dysfunctional and disconnected one). There is no conception of "self" or "others" in the One. There are no thoughtforms of lack, of any kind -- only presence. Infinite undending abundance of all real qualities. The lack only appears when consciousness resists "what is" which gives rise to illusions of absence. This results in a fracturing of the light, and much like forcing white light through a prism, divides it into the seven densities of consciousness.

The reasons there are no conceptions of 'self' or 'others' in the one is because, ultimately, they are lines drawn in the sand, metaphorically speaking, in a place where there are no lines drawn in the sand: infinity. The consciousness which looks through the perspective of self or others is not a part of the illusion of limits. So what you have in the one is just infinite consciousness, or infinite beingness and intelligence. Infinite joy. Infinite love. Infinite potential. Infinite vitality. Infinite connection.

I think part of the problem is as human beings it is hard for us to conceptualize the one. In fact, it's likely impossible to perfectly conceptualize it. We can only devise a simplistic conceptual symbol for infinity in our minds, which approximates a crudely hewn idea of the reality.

Sometimes it helps to conceptualize the one, not as a singular being, but as an infinity of beings, working in such flawless harmony that they appear as one. Now, that is NOT how it actually is, but it is about as accurate as imagining a singular entity, that is lonely and apart from others.

But anyway, that is just my personal view on it.

I appriciate your comments.

I realize the absurdity, beings that remember/know no more than what they experienced in a fractal of a life time try and understand the One. Could we still consider the posibility/probability that unity which contains all, both positive/negative created this experience due to a paradox of being all that there is.
7 billion humans, infinite stars and planets. infinte space and time, the amount of love is unspeakable, perhaps diving one self into infinite selves would be the result? If all is known, and all is well, then why the necessity to split into many-ness?

_____

(08-17-2016, 12:40 PM)Papercut Wrote: [ -> ]I appriciate your comments.

I realize the absurdity, beings that remember/know no more than what they experienced in a fractal of a life time try and understand the One. Could we still consider the posibility/probability that unity which contains all, both positive/negative created this experience due to a paradox of being all that there is.
7 billion humans, infinite stars and planets. infinte space and time, the amount of love is unspeakable, perhaps diving one self into infinite selves would be the result? If all is known, and all is well, then why the necessity to split into many-ness?

Time is just a dimension of experience, separation is a way to know complexity.

I think you can connect to any emotions as contained within Intelligent Infinity, so there is infinite loneliness and that of itself is a beautiful thing.

On one occasion I tried to connect to our Logos and what I felt was loneliness.

(08-17-2016, 12:40 PM)Papercut Wrote: [ -> ]I appriciate your comments.

I realize the absurdity, beings that remember/know no more than what they experienced in a fractal of a life time try and understand the One. Could we still consider the posibility/probability that unity which contains all, both positive/negative created this experience due to a paradox of being all that there is.
7 billion humans, infinite stars and planets. infinte space and time, the amount of love is unspeakable, perhaps diving one self into infinite selves would be the result? If all is known, and all is well, then why the necessity to split into many-ness?

If you want my opinion, the answer is simply this: the One, though it dwells in perpetual bliss, joy, love, what have you, doesn't know it. It *IS* it, but it doesn't KNOW it. "Knowing" is a lower order reality from Beingness. Please understand, I'm not saying it is lesser than, but simply a lower, or less encompassing reality.

Thus, in order to KNOW itself, it has to perceive the contrast of its own reality against the background of That Which Is Not. The creator knows itself through that which it is not. You see, it has to have a frame of reference -- a kind of comparison.

So the answer to your question is simply that: duality, or contrast, maintains and enriches the perfection of the creator.

When do you most appreciate food? When you are hungry.

When do you most appreciate rest? When you are tired.

When do you most appreciate the companionship of others? When you are lonely.

When do you most appreciate warmth? When you are cold.

This is the power of the exploration of duality -- appreciation. Without this finite exploration, we couldn't know the bliss of appreciation. Without the separation, you cannot enjoy the bliss of reunification. For the dance to occur, the archetypal union of opposites, a metaphysical potential difference has to be energized, and then the metaphysical electricity of consciousness flows from the negative to the positive pole. And the spark, or orgasm of creation, is briefly had. Until the next octave, and the next, and the next, and next, ad infinitum.

This is the mutually sustaining dialect between the relative and the absolute reality.

It's worth pointing out we have no idea if the Creator has 'peers' so to speak. We know from Ra that there are entities called Light Bringers who are Wanderers of a sort from beyond the Octave, aiding in the Harvest and its Logos completion. He also says he knows very little else about them or where\what they come from. But from this it seems quite possible -even likely- that our Octave\Creation\Creator is not truly ALL that there is, and that the Creator-as-Singularity has interactions with entities besides itself.

So it\we may not be lonesome after all.

(08-17-2016, 02:26 PM)APeacefulWarrior Wrote: [ -> ]It's worth pointing out we have no idea if the Creator has 'peers' so to speak.  We know from Ra that there are entities called Light Bringers who are Wanderers of a sort from beyond the Octave, aiding in the Harvest and its Logos completion.  He also says he knows very little else about them or where\what they come from.  But from this it seems quite possible -even likely- that our Octave\Creation\Creator is not truly ALL that there is, and that the Creator-as-Singularity has interactions with entities besides itself.

So it\we may not be lonesome after all.  

While you certainly may be right, I interpret Ra's words differently.

I still see the octave density as absolute and total infinity. The concept of the light bringers moving among octaves doesn't change the conceptualization for me, in fact, it makes perfect sense.

The islands of densities, to my way of thinking, are simply 7th density islands (which are Logoi), floating in the infinity represented by the 8th density. So if we are talking about 7th density Logoi, I absolutely agree that there are other creators, but if we are talking about the intelligent infinity that Logoi arise from, I think there is just the one unified ego-less intelligent infinity represented by the 8th level.

Of course, these ultimately boil down to intuitive speculations which we will never fully know (apparently not even after we transition to the next octave since all begins and ends in mystery).  

That seems to perceive the Octave format as being absolute instead of a particular focus found, inherent instead of explored.

Well, the relevant quote in question (52.12) says:

Quote:This octave density of which we have spoken is both omega and alpha, the spiritual mass of the infinite universes becoming one central sun or Creator once again. Then is born a new universe, a new infinity, a new Logos which incorporates all that the Creator has experienced of Itself. In this new octave there are also those who wander. We know very little across the boundary of octave except that these beings come to aid our octave in its Logos completion.

Now, this is highly ambiguous, to be sure. But what I take away from it is that the Creator also has a "higher self" so to speak, one which was\is created when our Creator achieved\s absolute unity and absolute harnessing of its total potential. I see some parallels between this description and his description of how our own oversouls work, anyway.

But the question becomes: where do the Light Bringers come from? If they're ultimately still of the Creator, then that would imply it fragments again after achieving wholeness. While possible, this doesn't strike me as terribly likely, unless the cosmos really is an endless loop of fragmentation and unification. The other alternative, of course, is that on the other side of the Octave, there are other entities, presumably ones who have all achieved that level of self-actualization, or even more.

This is, at least, the interpretation I prefer.

(08-17-2016, 03:09 PM)Minyatur Wrote: [ -> ]That seems to perceive the Octave format as being absolute instead of a particular focus found, inherent instead of explored.

Yes, I believe there are seven rays in each exploration, and the exploration of these seven rays is an octave. The octave level is the white light of pure potentiality, awaiting differentiation into the seven rays.

(08-17-2016, 03:14 PM)APeacefulWarrior Wrote: [ -> ]Well, the relevant quote in question (52.12) says:

Quote:This octave density of which we have spoken is both omega and alpha, the spiritual mass of the infinite universes becoming one central sun or Creator once again. Then is born a new universe, a new infinity, a new Logos which incorporates all that the Creator has experienced of Itself. In this new octave there are also those who wander. We know very little across the boundary of octave except that these beings come to aid our octave in its Logos completion.

Now, this is highly ambiguous, to be sure.  But what I take away from it is that the Creator also has a "higher self" so to speak, one which was\is created when our Creator achieved\s absolute unity and absolute harnessing of its total potential.  I see some parallels between this description and his description of how our own oversouls work, anyway.

But the question becomes: where do the Light Bringers come from?  If they're ultimately still of the Creator, then that would imply it fragments again after achieving wholeness.  While possible, this doesn't strike me as terribly likely, unless the cosmos really is an endless loop of fragmentation and unification.  The other alternative, of course, is that on the other side of the Octave, there are other entities, presumably ones who have all achieved that level of self-actualization, or even more.

This is, at least, the interpretation I prefer.  

Your higher self analogy is precisely how I see it. Though, my interpretation might diverge from your own a bit. All differentiation is an illusion from my point of view, so the notion of higher selves is an infinitely recursive projection that even applies to the Logos (which I identify as a 7th density being). The light bringers are its "higher self", of a sort, seemingly "coming back" to aid our octave in its Logos completion. It is similar to if you have two mirrors facing each other, and you are in the center. An infinite projection of reflections ahead of you, and an infinite projection of reflections in back of you.

Are they real? At least as real as us, because we have mistakenly identified with one of the images in the mirror.

But from the standpoint of intelligent infinity or pure conscious unity, its just reflections in the mirror -- distortions of what is really there -- refractions of light. So from one perspective, there are beings traveling back from the next octave to aid us, and from another, it is simply an appearance or distortion to accommodate the recursive distortions of light reflexively generated by egoic identification. Ripples in the pond of time and raw consciousness.

I personally believe that every octave is essentially the same. Specifically different, but archetypically the same. Meaning, in each octave there will be a red ray, orange ray, yellow ray, and so on.

From my perspective, infinity cannot become more infinite, or less infinite, so I see the octave density as merely the container for all potentiality. It is a place where there is no difference between the potential and the actual -- the nucleus and source of creative energy. Each vibrational level from violet to red represents a more specific narrowing of perspective from infinite possibility to specific probability. So the transition from our octave to the next is a process of pivoting from this exploration of finity into the infinite plenum of 8th density intelligent infintiy, and then refocusing into another exploration of finity, a new octave of densities.

As for my preference? I don't really have one I don't think, this is just what makes the most sense to my intuition and logic at the moment, but I fully appreciate that others have different perspectives on how the One differentiates or does not differentiate.    

Cut reality up in to as many shapes as you want, it won't harm reality.

(08-17-2016, 04:22 PM)anagogy Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-17-2016, 03:09 PM)Minyatur Wrote: [ -> ]That seems to perceive the Octave format as being absolute instead of a particular focus found, inherent instead of explored.

Yes, I believe there are seven rays in each exploration, and the exploration of these seven rays is an octave. The octave level is the white light of pure potentiality, awaiting differentiation into the seven rays.

Is this based solely upon that we currently are in an experience of 7 densities or you have other reason for this?

I tend to think there is an infinite exploration of the octave system but also of otherwise. So we would have this same octave totaltity we experience (original thought), but within a system of 5 densities for example. That system would also be the harvest of every previous system totalities of the same octaves we experience but as always systems of 5.

So we would be the stream of those of Eighth but there is also a parralel version of our flow which experiences as those of Fifth. Always dividing the same spectrum, but each in it's own way to create it's unique infinite stream. However it is divided, it starts and ends in the same place.

An analogy with time signatures in music would be appropriate. Sure 4/4 is solid of a thing, but also limited to contain infinite creativity.

(08-17-2016, 03:14 PM)APeacefulWarrior Wrote: [ -> ]But the question becomes: where do the Light Bringers come from?  If they're ultimately still of the Creator, then that would imply it fragments again after achieving wholeness.  While possible, this doesn't strike me as terribly likely, unless the cosmos really is an endless loop of fragmentation and unification.  

actually yes i think it is like that! relevant quote by Ra:

Quote:Questioner: Are you saying then there are an infinite number of octaves of densities one through eight?
Ra: I am Ra. We wish to establish that we are truly humble messengers of the Law of One. We can speak to you of our experiences and our understandings and teach/learn in limited ways. However, we cannot speak in firm knowledge of all the creations. We know only that they are infinite. We assume an infinite number of octaves.

However, it has been impressed upon us by our own teachers that there is a mystery-clad unity of creation in which all consciousness periodically coalesces and again begins. Thus we can only say we assume an infinite progression though we understand it to be cyclical in nature and, as we have said, clad in mystery.

this quote actually blows my mind in any case because to me it seems that the next octave incorporates a polarity in which both sides of the polarity include service-to-self and service-to-others. in the same way that the previous octave had polarity "in the sense of the mover and the moved," we have polarity in the sense of "service-to-self/others." so what is the next, deeper exploration of polarity???? i dont know... Ra doesn't even know. but i'm sure it's a trip unimaginable to beings of this octave :exclamation:

(08-17-2016, 04:22 PM)anagogy Wrote: [ -> ]I personally believe that every octave is essentially the same. Specifically different, but archetypically the same. Meaning, in each octave there will be a red ray, orange ray, yellow ray, and so on.

From my perspective, infinity cannot become more infinite, or less infinite, so I see the octave density as merely the container for all potentiality. It is a place where there is no difference between the potential and the actual -- the nucleus and source of creative energy. Each vibrational level from violet to red represents a more specific narrowing of perspective from infinite possibility to specific probability. So the transition from our octave to the next is a process of pivoting from this exploration of finity into the infinite plenum of 8th density intelligent infintiy, and then refocusing into another exploration of finity, a new octave of densities.

okay, so i've had this idea for a while: what if the octaves are actually sub-densities of another, more encompassing "octave?" meaning that our octave could be as third density is to this octave. Ra said that there are infinitely regressing subdivisions of sevens all the down, right? so why wouldn't it be the same all the way UP??

AND, wow, just hit me, the parallels. Ra said this:

Quote:Questioner: But, in doing this, there was at the center of the galaxy, the lack of knowledge or the lack of concept of possibility of extending the first distortion, so as to allow for what we have experienced as polarity. Was there any concept of polarity carried through from the previous octave in the sense of service-to-others or service-to-self polarity?

Ra: I am Ra. There was polarity in the sense of the mover and the moved. There was no polarity in the sense of service to self and service to others.

so maybe this greater oct-octave, that has within it EIGHT OCTAVES, is the exploration of POLARITY ITSELF.

anagogy, you say that you think that the octave represents the container for all potentiality, but why can't there be a bigger container?! really though im just stretching my own limiting idea of what infinity is. as John C Lilly said, "beliefs are limits to be transcended," so if we believe that the octave is the "biggest" there is, then that means we know there is something bigger!

ok im done. kinda manic right now, dunno if im communicating clearly or not, haha

Wish I could express my self as you have, nevertheless I'm loving this dance of thoughts.
What about the part of the sub-logos(sun), it would seem that it has a big role in the densities we experience. And if I'm not wrong Ra has stated that beings from other galaxies have little to no interaction with our own at all. Could this possibly mean that a galaxy is an octave of its own, and a solar system is a sub-octave to that one?

I think galaxies would still be part of this Octave but that there is a form of infinitely big and infinitely small. Kind of like an infinite spectrum toward each endless side, things in hat spectrum are so far apart they sort of become things of their own because of spiritual mass, "islands".

I think our Universe contains laws that are the harvests of other Octaves, these laws then are tools to dualize aspects of our reality and are used by Sub-Logoi to diversify the experience of the Creator of Itself as they desire to explore themselves. Each Octave contains an infinite energy, our own being Love, because it is the Original focus chosen/found by the Logos. If we take mover/moved, it has quite an important role at te cosmic scale that allows densities to take form and also at our scale of experience. Works with any kind of duality.

Anyway how I see things as of now.

(08-17-2016, 03:09 PM)Minyatur Wrote: [ -> ]Is this based solely upon that we currently are in an experience of 7 densities or you have other reason for this?

To a great extent, it is due to what Ra said:

"16.51 Questioner: Could you define the word density as we have been using it to give us a little greater idea of the concept of this term when used by you?
Ra: I am Ra. The term density is a, what you would call, mathematical one. The closest analogy is that of music, whereby after seven notes on your western type of scale, if you will, the eighth note begins a new octave. Within your great octave of existence which we share with you, there are seven octaves or densities. Within each density there are seven sub-densities. Within each sub-density, seven sub-sub-densities, and so on infinitely."

I think that certain numbers have sacred and eternal meaning. 7 is one of those numbers. 3 is another. But I'm not entirely opposed to the idea of other octaves having different amounts of densities, I just haven't seen anything that has really convinced me that might be the case.

(08-17-2016, 05:53 PM)sjel Wrote: [ -> ]anagogy, you say that you think that the octave represents the container for all potentiality, but why can't there be a bigger container?! really though im just stretching my own limiting idea of what infinity is. as John C Lilly said, "beliefs are limits to be transcended," so if we believe that the octave is the "biggest" there is, then that means we know there is something bigger!

Our octave could be part of a larger octave where we could be something like: the red ray sub-octave of say, for example, the green ray octave. This is a thought that I have often considered. It's possible that there are 7 octaves and when we reach the 8th octave we start back at the 1st octave. Or maybe that is within another even larger SUPER octave.

Frankly though, I just don't feel that this is true. One reason for that is that Ra has basically stated that in violet ray, where our mind/body/spirit/totality exists it is akin to a shifting tide of infinite parallel realities. That is *almost* infinity right there. So from my perspective, I think to myself, what is the next step to that state of *near infinity*? And with that thought I strongly feel that the octave is the mega container for all possibility. It just "fits" intuitively for me, and logically. I freely admit, I could be completely wrong, but that is the answer that I currently feel the most "light of truth" in, personally speaking.

Another thing, to kind of flesh out my view a little, is that from my perspective, I don't see a separation between the rays no matter the density (consider for a moment that densities are basically "mini-octaves"). For example, I do not see the red ray sub-density of yellow ray as separate from the red ray sub-density of orange ray, as an example. They are both red ray, and both represent red ray manifestations as seen through eyes of whatever true color conscious entity they occur on (in my view red ray usually represents a given densities physical perspective). For example, from my perspective, the red ray subdensity of true color yellow is: a self aware physical perspective (3rd density physical incarnation).

Similarly, I do not see a separation between the octave ray (if you will accept this creative misnomer), and any other octave ray. The octave ray, if you will pardon my made up word/concept, is the "infinity ray" or "white ray" (all inclusive ray), just as the yellow ray, is the "self awareness" ray, no matter what density it expresses in. Now to be fair, every ray expresses slightly differently in every density, but archetypically speaking it is essentially the same. I make the presumption that the same thing holds true from octave to octave. Same rays, slightly different in nuance, but archetypically fundamentically identical.

(08-17-2016, 06:47 PM)Papercut Wrote: [ -> ]Wish I could express my self as you have, nevertheless I'm loving this dance of thoughts.
What about the part of the sub-logos(sun), it would seem that it has a big role in the densities we experience. And if I'm not wrong Ra has stated that beings from other galaxies have little to no interaction with our own at all. Could this possibly mean that a galaxy is an octave of its own, and a solar system is a sub-octave to that one?

Our local solar Logoi doesn't create the densities we experience, but rather it "nuances" them. It refines the archetypes of our local space/time and time/space in conformance with its desires and curiosities as a living sub creator (as all aspects of the one do). Thus, the archetypes we experience are extensions of its peculiarities (its unique perspective). Every sub-logoi offers refinement on the previously more broad, general, and encompassing reality that preceded it. We, in our individual lives, are offering refinements to the archetypes as well. You might think of these refinements as sub-archetypes. And the refinements increase in complexity and specificity to the same degree as individuation occurs.

@Minyatur

I also forgot to put this one down:

Quote:78.15 Questioner: Then the first experiences, as you say, were in monochrome. Now, was the concept of the seven densities of vibration with the evolutionary process taking place in the discrete densities— was that carried through from the previous octave?

Ra: I am Ra. To the limits of our knowledge, which are narrow, the ways of the octave are without time; that is, there are seven densities in each creation infinitely.