Bring4th

Is it possible to judge others, without judging yourself?

is this a trick question?

I do not mean in the sense that we are one and by judging me you are inherently judging yourself. I mean is it possible to judge another without having a trace of that judgement towards yourself, i imagine there are subtle gradations involved in this though.

Perhaps discernment is your keyword. To discern is to judge, but not necessarily in a negative sense. If a thief comes to your house, then he is an other-self, a potential friend, but he is still a person who steals (a thief). Good company can always be created, but it is best to keep a watchful eye (discernment). Do you see what I mean?

I think judgement has kind of been made in to a dirty word. There are simpler ideas it is associated with, such as if you think of 'judging distance' it has a more neutral kind of tone which is more like discernment as Verum suggested.

However, I do actually agree with what you are saying in the judgement is primarily a manner of comparison. Even judging distance you do so by a comparison of different measures, so I would agree that any judgement upon others is also stemming from self-judgement because the basis for comparison will always be yourself. So any time you observe and contemplate another in juxtaposition to yourself it is a manner of judgement.

What most people refer to when they say 'judgemental' is a form of judgement whereby that comparison is always skewed in the favour of the judge. So really, I think when most people are bothered by judging it is because it is viewed as a superiority complex.

Again though. I agree, I think all judgement is a manner of self-contrast so it's impossible to do so without relating to yourself.

Definitely agree with Aion here. Also I would say that you can judge without being aware your in the equation as well.

Quote:18.12 Questioner: You stated yesterday that forgiveness is the eradicator of karma. I am assuming that balanced forgiveness for the full eradication of karma would require forgiveness not only of other-selves but forgiveness of self. Am I correct?
Ra: I am Ra. You are correct. We will briefly expand upon this understanding in order to clarify.

Forgiveness of other-self is forgiveness of self. An understanding of this insists upon full forgiveness upon the conscious level of self and other-self, for they are one. A full forgiveness is thus impossible without the inclusion of self.

Speaks of forgiveness, but I guess can be extended to what you feel about others in general.

So, essentially to eradicate judgment of another would require a lessening of the contrast between self and other by means of forgiveness, balancing and healing of the self? Sort of breaking down of a strong attachment to the identity of self, which would break down the seeming disparity between self and other?

(11-02-2016, 03:49 PM)Sabou Wrote: [ -> ]So, essentially to eradicate judgment of another would require a lessening of the contrast between self and other by means of forgiveness, balancing and healing of the self? Sort of breaking down of a strong attachment to the identity of self, which would break down the seeming disparity between self and other?

I think so but I'd add faith. I think faith is important because you're not somewhere you can perceive others nor yourself whole nor can perceive the cause and effect that makes anyone act as they do or be as they are, so faith that the things you don't understand can be understood with greater awareness is probably useful for all steps above.

(11-02-2016, 03:49 PM)Sabou Wrote: [ -> ]So, essentially to eradicate judgment of another would require a lessening of the contrast between self and other by means of forgiveness, balancing and healing of the self? Sort of breaking down of a strong attachment to the identity of self, which would break down the seeming disparity between self and other?

Judgement as comparison is like a ratio of equality between the many aspects of the self. The judgement is not to be discarded by instead seen as a microcosm/macrocosm relationship between the self and the other that is a reflection of the internal workings of the individual. In otherwords your judgements are actually you comparing different parts of yourself using the other as a mirror or medium.

In that, the other serves to either reinforce or dissolve your judgements by reflection. The judgement then is to be discerned, as in, what is it in itself exactly?

Choice is where it becomes truly relevant because to 'have judgement' is to be capable of making a choice. With no judgement there is no discernment and thus all choices are then impulsive. The question then, is where is one trying to go with their choices? Judgement will change based on the answer to this question because judgement will separate that which is desired from that which is not.

I do not think it is useful to cease judgement but rather to view it as part of the vehicle of the 'ego' or personality. There is 'unfair' judgement as well as 'good' judgement as well as 'foolish' judgement. Many different ways to discern and perceive. Choose your measure of reality and by the measurement it shall be craft.

Quote:74.9 Questioner: Let me see if I have a wrong opinion here of the effect of disciplines of the personality. I was assuming that a discipline of the personality to, shall we say, have a balanced attitude toward a single fellow entity would properly clear and balance, to some extent, the orange-ray energy center. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. We cannot say that you speak incorrectly but merely less than completely. The disciplined personality, when faced with an other-self, has all centers balanced according to its unique balance. Thusly the other-self looks in a mirror seeing itself.

(11-02-2016, 10:23 AM)Sabou Wrote: [ -> ]Is it possible to judge others, without judging yourself?

not really. no. that is why I just love you. I got nothing else. The love is there though definitely, I can't draw infinite or maybe I can? I love you >O< this much infinity. haha, which is pretty infinite if you ask me.

^_^ if you don't believe me go ask your higher self.

(11-02-2016, 10:23 AM)Sabou Wrote: [ -> ]Is it possible to judge others, without judging yourself?

Nope. Whatever you judge about another is just another aspect of yourself that you haven't accepted and categorized appropriately within your mind.

(11-02-2016, 12:35 PM)Verum Occultum Wrote: [ -> ]Perhaps discernment is your keyword. To discern is to judge, but not necessarily in a negative sense. If a thief comes to your house, then he is an other-self, a potential friend, but he is still a person who steals (a thief). Good company can always be created, but it is best to keep a watchful eye (discernment). Do you see what I mean?

That. Basically, lol.

Discernment yes, judgement no. Discernment is a wise and healthy thing. Judgement is a negative habit and/or an opportunity to heal oneself by coming to terms with why one is judging another.

(11-02-2016, 06:41 PM)Turtle Wrote: [ -> ]Judgement is a negative habit

(11-02-2016, 08:42 PM)isis Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-02-2016, 06:41 PM)Turtle Wrote: [ -> ]Judgement is a negative habit

lol

(11-02-2016, 04:54 PM)Aion Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-02-2016, 03:49 PM)Sabou Wrote: [ -> ]So, essentially to eradicate judgment of another would require a lessening of the contrast between self and other by means of forgiveness, balancing and healing of the self? Sort of breaking down of a strong attachment to the identity of self, which would break down the seeming disparity between self and other?

Judgement as comparison is like a ratio of equality between the many aspects of the self. The judgement is not to be discarded by instead seen as a microcosm/macrocosm relationship between the self and the other that is a reflection of the internal workings of the individual. In otherwords your judgements are actually you comparing different parts of yourself using the other as a mirror or medium.

In that, the other serves to either reinforce or dissolve your judgements by reflection. The judgement then is to be discerned, as in, what is it in itself exactly?

Choice is where it becomes truly relevant because to 'have judgement' is to be capable of making a choice. With no judgement there is no discernment and thus all choices are then impulsive. The question then, is where is one trying to go with their choices? Judgement will change based on the answer to this question because judgement will separate that which is desired from that which is not.

I do not think it is useful to cease judgement but rather to view it as part of the vehicle of the 'ego' or personality. There is 'unfair' judgement as well as 'good' judgement as well as 'foolish' judgement. Many different ways to discern and perceive. Choose your measure of reality and by the measurement it shall be craft.

What would be the mechanisms that would cause one to either reinforce or dissolve their judgments. Would that be the choice you are talking about? obviously if one is comfortable with their judgements and believe in them, it would be easy enough to go the route of reinforcing those beliefs, but what choice would one make if they want to dissolve them? very generally, firstly to recognize the those parts of yourself that are being reflected, and to discover how they are distorting your inner processes, and then turn that judgement into acceptance in some way towards yourself?

I think compassion would play a big part.

(11-03-2016, 06:32 PM)hounsic Wrote: [ -> ]I think compassion would play a big part.

I agree, and faith like Minyatur mentioned. I hold them as dear friends when dealing with shadow aspects.

(11-03-2016, 05:13 PM)Sabou Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-02-2016, 04:54 PM)Aion Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-02-2016, 03:49 PM)Sabou Wrote: [ -> ]So, essentially to eradicate judgment of another would require a lessening of the contrast between self and other by means of forgiveness, balancing and healing of the self? Sort of breaking down of a strong attachment to the identity of self, which would break down the seeming disparity between self and other?

Judgement as comparison is like a ratio of equality between the many aspects of the self. The judgement is not to be discarded by instead seen as a microcosm/macrocosm relationship between the self and the other that is a reflection of the internal workings of the individual. In otherwords your judgements are actually you comparing different parts of yourself using the other as a mirror or medium.

In that, the other serves to either reinforce or dissolve your judgements by reflection. The judgement then is to be discerned, as in, what is it in itself exactly?

Choice is where it becomes truly relevant because to 'have judgement' is to be capable of making a choice. With no judgement there is no discernment and thus all choices are then impulsive. The question then, is where is one trying to go with their choices? Judgement will change based on the answer to this question because judgement will separate that which is desired from that which is not.

I do not think it is useful to cease judgement but rather to view it as part of the vehicle of the 'ego' or personality. There is 'unfair' judgement as well as 'good' judgement as well as 'foolish' judgement. Many different ways to discern and perceive. Choose your measure of reality and by the measurement it shall be craft.

What would be the mechanisms that would cause one to either reinforce or dissolve their judgments. Would that be the choice you are talking about? obviously if one is comfortable with their judgements and believe in them, it would be easy enough to go the route of reinforcing those beliefs, but what choice would one make if they want to dissolve them? very generally, firstly to recognize the those parts of yourself that are being reflected, and to discover how they are distorting your inner processes, and then turn that judgement into acceptance in some way towards yourself?

The most unbiased state of judgement is that of acceptance because it is a reception of that which is. Judgement that is skewed is perceiving things as according to a rejection, which we often see called 'projection', and it can be any degree of mixing between 'what is' and 'what you think'. This in essence is when there is perceived a difference between the self and other self and so that 'space' becomes filled with catalyst. When that difference is no longer seen the catalyst has been used.

I think that most people approach this in an exclusive sort of way whereby they feel they need to 'match up' with others in order to identify with them, but I think more of an inclusive method can be effective where instead you find the traits within yourself that you see in others.

So, this is where the balancing exercises come in to play because they are essentially expanding and refinishing the very personality you express in the world, so thereby, in my opinion, if you use it correctly you will eventually find you yourself contain every possible trait and instead are choosing between those traits, perhaps only impulsively. However, those same traits are the same traits that make up everyone else, there are archetypes from which all personality draws, so you see then that the differences are fewer in that which you are and the difference only lies within the choice.

The choice is what most people judge eachother for because one's choices are the illustration of one's character but I think it is also that once we make a choice we have developed some judgement towards other choices we could have made and so we will see these unmade choices reflected in the people we encounter and will remind us of the potential for other choices and thus become repulsed or attracted by the very idea of making that choice.

In short, when people are repulsed by the choices of others and so have a skewed judgement I think it is usually because they do not feel they would ever make that choice and have thereby rejected that potential for themselves internally, which causes energy to be locked up as a blockage because of the inability to accept the possibility of oneself making choices one does not want to make.

Thus to see in yourself every choice and to accept the power to choose is freeing but is also the responsibility of creativity.

Compassion is very useful in that it is easier to examine yourself with a gentle eye, however the fine tuning of wisdom requires an eye that is sharp.

I think it's a gradient. Ra says the healer should be able to recognize blockages in the self/another self without judgement.

Quote:The function of the healer and crystal may not be over-emphasized, for this power of interruption must needs be controlled, shall we say, with incarnate intelligence; the intelligence being that of one which recognizes energy patterns; which, without judging, recognizes blockage, weakness, and other distortion; and which is capable of visualizing, through the regularity of self and of crystal, the less distorted other-self to be healed.

I think there is a big difference between recognizing someone has a blockage and judging a person for their blockage. And, according to this quote, one must be able to discern a blockage in another while they themselves are relatively blockage-free (as a healer).

(11-02-2016, 10:23 AM)Sabou Wrote: [ -> ]Is it possible to judge others, without judging yourself?

I don't think it is because the distortion of judging others would point to an experience in our lives where we had been judged. So this conditioning of being judged would have come about before our mental faculties were formed and thus we would not be equipped to contest it as an appropriate thing. It is clearly appropriate at the time or we would not be judged, such is the nature of early conditioning or programming that we come to automatically reinforce such criticisms upon ourselves thereafter. If it instead was widely understood that all things and situations are unique then judgement would be nonsensical. So I believe that when we judge another it merely reflects back to us an unstudied aspect of self judgement, which has at it's roots the experience of being judged.

As for myself this is an aspect of my own balancing processes. I play casual football every week and this provides me with awesome opportunities to become aware of why I am judging others internally. I can be incredibly shallow when I witness my own judgements of others. This is, in itself, a self judgement of recognising my judgement of other selves. The difference here is to not add an emotional value to the self diagnoses of "shallow thoughts", rather to understand which energy centre it relates to and how to process and balance it from there. 

i saw this in fb newsfeed this morning & thought it belonged here.