Bring4th

I've seen a lot of references to hell recently. It made me think.
If hell exists, then some Christians are also going there.

It's possible that believing is simply not enough.
I believe, and I love Jesus, and that may not be enough if hell is real.

I don't volunteer or help the poor at every waking moment.

What if I believe because I'm afraid to go to hell, or I want to go to heaven, instead of because I simply love God?

Maybe in this case if hell exists you go there.

What if only one of the 1000's of religions on Earth is right? I'm none of them, and may go to hell because of that if it exists.

God supposedly made hell for Satan. I feel like sometimes I'm possessed or have attachments of negative entities because of my perverse nature.
That if hell exists would make me destined for it.

And what is hell, the core of a star, or the center of Earth? But those two aren't eternal, and yet hell, if it exists, is.

What if God only wants those that love him the most?

I'm listening to The God Delusion on Audible right now. What if God doesn't want us to even question his existence? That by reading even these, or magical materials, we are going against his desires?

When I was a Christian for 10 years it really messed me up, and made me cower. I haven't begged God for forgiveness for my past "sins".

Come back to the Law of One.

Quote:In your religious books or your Bible, there is spoken something about a day of judgment, and some of your religions make a great issue of this. They believe that the dead shall come to life and everyone shall be judged—like you’ve been good, you go here, you’ve been bad, you go there. Well, my friends, there is truly coming a day of judgment, but it shall not occur in this manner; for no great Deity is going to sit upon a great throne and separate his sheep. But, each man will receive justice, according to his own thoughts; he shall bring upon himself his own judgment.

(02-04-2017, 01:38 PM)Cyclops Wrote: [ -> ]Come back to the Law of One.

Quote:In your religious books or your Bible, there is spoken something about a day of judgment, and some of your religions make a great issue of this. They believe that the dead shall come to life and everyone shall be judged—like you’ve been good, you go here, you’ve been bad, you go there. Well, my friends, there is truly coming a day of judgment, but it shall not occur in this manner; for no great Deity is going to sit upon a great throne and separate his sheep. But, each man will receive justice, according to his own thoughts; he shall bring upon himself his own judgment.

I hope when I do judge myself that I can do so in an objective manner. Or at least have enough wisdom to do it justly.
Were I to judge myself with my current personality, it wouldn't go well.
It's hard to love those who abuse us.

(02-04-2017, 01:57 PM)IndigoGeminiWolf Wrote: [ -> ]I hope when I do judge myself that I can do so in an objective manner. Or at least have enough wisdom to do it justly.
Were I to judge myself with my current personality, it wouldn't go well.
It's hard to love those who abuse us.

You have been a student of the Law of One before, remember that we incarnate because we seek progress, while not incarnate we have expanded consciousness to gauge our progress and plan our own way , not to appease some being who would demand worship through coercion/threats. Such a being would be unworthy of worship.

Quote:The appropriate time for careful judgment is that moment called the day of judgment by that holy work which you call the Holy Bible, and that day shall arrive for each, and the judge shall be yourself. It is you that you must please. It is you that you must convince. It is you that are the critic. It is you that will write the outline of your next play, when you decide in the far more enlightened atmosphere outside of your particular illusion what biases you still wish to emphasize and what ones to de-emphasize.

1. If hell exist, what is it?

2. "Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them. This is how love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment: In this world we are like Jesus. There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love." (1 John 4)

It is my personal Experience that:

Earth contains within its experience, both Heaven and Hell upon its surface.

I personally believe Hell is something made on Earth.  If it exists elsewhere, be happy as its not meant for you, you're already in a level of hell.

You are also already in a level of heaven.  Earth has both those environments available.

For instance, Earth has times of War, these are examples of its falling into deeper levels of hell.  As peace flourishes it raises up towards higher levels of heaven.

I see it as heaven/hell IS Earth.  We need only walk away from Hell to avoid it.

The problem is sometimes we take Hell into our minds and it makes itself at home there.

This is why its important to focus on the positive.  Make your mind a home for heaven, rather than hell.

As for Judgment Day.

The word 'judgment' is often misconstrued as a form of negative connotation (We judged the man to be incompetent).  I find myself having to insert an adjective to help define what kind of judgment the day will encompass.

I call it, using your [better] judgment, (we judged the man to be in need of help, he came off incompetent but it was clear he was just having a rough day.)

So judgment to me is not condemnation, its thoughts associated with an assumption, and it can be used easily in both ways to assume negative or positive traits.

Most people fixate on the negative though, fear is really good at doing that.

If I may be so bold.  I feel I myself will pass judgment day with mixed, but mostly positive colors, despite my gloominess and sadness and anger and grief, I still find myself capable of saying, 'maybe I am good' even as I condemn myself as a bad person.

I personally believe that's all God wants of me, is to love myself, no matter how little, anything is a success.

And in the light of my better judgment, upon looking at these negative feelings towards myself, will I condemn myself, or see I am merely hurt by the amount of love I feel?

God isn't the world's most distasteful fictional character (old testament...), God is just a being of energies of love, any love you have is his connection to and through you.  He won't judge you.  He may even hold you as you judge yourself, asking you love yourself as you go through the process.

Why would God only take those of a highest caliber of love, seems a bit elitest, and I doubt God is that way to a positive harvest.  I don't doubt he is that way to the negative harvest though.  

Loostudent, I define hell as 'a place of suffering to learn a lesson'.

I think hell and paradise are inner belief systems. They can exist at any time/space given that you summon them where you are. You can manifest both at your will at any given space or time. So think positive.

(02-04-2017, 09:48 PM)Night Owl Wrote: [ -> ]I think hell and paradise are inner belief systems. They can exist at any time/space given that you summon them where you are. You can manifest both at your will at any given space or time. So think positive.

It's just hard for my thoughts not to spiral downwards out of control when I encounter something that freaks me out, especially in dreams.

I would think there is some emotional issue surfacing whenever that happens. When the mind goes crazy there is usually some form of repression that triggers the mind to bury the emotion with non pretty thoughts. From reading lots of your post I would intuitively guess that fear is at the root but I may be wrong. If you don't feel like you can handle the situation causing that because that naturally happens to most people, I would suggest to simply take care of your body to your highest abilities, that is eating with balance some good food, sleeping enough each day, exercising, meditating and taking your meds if you have to.

Then do the same on the mind level, try to radiate from your core and maintain positive intentions and thoughts for yourself and others. Repeat yourself some phrases with forgiveness, acceptance, balance, love etc. Repeat them until there's no room for other thoughts. The longer you cultivate them the more powerful they will become.

Focus your meditation on the lower chakras should help as well.

Just don't let yourself drift into your nightmares. If you can find some distraction you like, like maybe watching a movie or listening to positive music so that it occupies your thoughts but only once you took care of the previous stuff.

I do alright, but then some songs I like make me feel so lonely. Like this one. It can be like purgatory here on Earth.

In a metaphoric point of view the hell is a state of conscious. In a literal concept the lower dimensions of the astral plan.

Peace, love and light.

There are very good description of the "states" human beings experience after their death in for example the seth material.
Also, michael roads (if anyone knows him, great books by the way!) investigated this extensively.
And, not to forget robert Monroe, who also has some good descriptions of his experiences.

To sum it up, after death, being in time/space, your surrounding would be much more flexible (as oppossed to the consensus reality on earth, which is more "fixed") and responding more directly to your beliefs and thoughts.
This would mean, if you believe in hell, you will experience hell ( if think you deserved it), if you believe in heaven you will end up in heaven, if you believe existence ends after physical death, you will experience a state in which you seem to not exist anymore.
There are always helpful entities around that help you out of that illusion. Some illusion seem to be hrader to "leave".
It seems they get get you quickly out of hell mostly, since its so unpleasant.
Heavens seems to be more difficult, since it would be much more pleasant.
Blieving in non-existence seems to be the hardest.

I've read of an encounter with a discarnate entity who was insisting in that he had died and thus didnt exist anymore, the entity was even ignoring the fact that it communicated and insised in his non-existence...

(02-06-2017, 05:21 AM)Muad-dib Wrote: [ -> ]There are very good description of the "states" human beings experience after their death in for example the seth material.
Also, michael roads (if anyone knows him, great books by the way!) investigated this extensively.
And, not to forget robert Monroe, who also has some good descriptions of his experiences.

To sum it up, after death, being in time/space, your surrounding would be much more flexible (as oppossed to the consensus reality on earth, which is more "fixed") and responding more directly to your beliefs and thoughts.
This would mean, if you believe in hell, you will experience hell ( if think you deserved it), if you believe in heaven you will end up in heaven, if you believe existence ends after physical death, you will experience a state in which you seem to not exist anymore.
There are always helpful entities around that help you out of that illusion. Some illusion seem to be hrader to "leave".
It seems they get get you quickly out of hell mostly, since its so unpleasant.
Heavens seems to be more difficult, since it would be much more pleasant.
Blieving in non-existence seems to be the hardest.

I've read of an encounter with a discarnate entity who was insisting in that he had died and thus didnt exist anymore, the entity was even ignoring the fact that it communicated and insised in his non-existence...

Yeah, I've heard that too.

In the afterlife, are our thoughts more consistent? Can we hold a state of thought for a longer time to make a consistent experience?

I guess we can satisfy our desires we never got here on Earth before moving onto higher states.

But I wonder if in 5th density is where the magic really happens.

Is our sense of smell and taste more pronounced in the afterlife?

HIGhLY recommend y'all to watch Howard Storm's NDE! Scott Mandelker did a class on it and he covers the entire experience with an eye to the metaphysics. Howard Storm was ignorant of anything spiritual or religious, he was an atheist. Yet he describes his NDE with great honesty, and because of his honesty in recounting the story, a rich avenue is opened up. We get to see his life choices that lead to his experience of hell, his "rescue", and then a glimpse of review, healing, and planning ahead. Also a glimpse at the fall of the US and the early beginning of fourth density. He walked the, what I would call, the steps of light, where the light becomes increasingly fuller of glory. It's all in there, truly incredible.

This an NDE that has real and valuable substance to it.

(02-06-2017, 09:56 AM)Nau7ik Wrote: [ -> ]HIGhLY recommend y'all to watch Howard Storm's NDE! Scott Mandelker did a class on it and he covers the entire experience with an eye to the metaphysics. Howard Storm was ignorant of anything spiritual or religious, he was an atheist. Yet he describes his NDE with great honesty, and because of his honesty in recounting the story, a rich avenue is opened up. We get to see his life choices that lead to his experience of hell, his "rescue", and then a glimpse of review, healing, and planning ahead. Also a glimpse at the fall of the US and the early beginning of fourth density. He walked the, what I would call, the steps of light, where the light becomes increasingly fuller of glory. It's all in there, truly incredible.

This an NDE that has real and valuable substance to it.

Link please.

(02-04-2017, 01:30 PM)IndigoGeminiWolf Wrote: [ -> ]I've seen a lot of references to hell recently. It made me think.
If hell exists, then some Christians are also going there.

It's possible that believing is simply not enough.
I believe, and I love Jesus, and that may not be enough if hell is real.

I don't volunteer or help the poor at every waking moment.

What if I believe because I'm afraid to go to hell, or I want to go to heaven, instead of because I simply love God?

Maybe in this case if hell exists you go there.

What if only one of the 1000's of religions on Earth is right? I'm none of them, and may go to hell because of that if it exists.

God supposedly made hell for Satan. I feel like sometimes I'm possessed or have attachments of negative entities because of my perverse nature.
That if hell exists would make me destined for it.

And what is hell, the core of a star, or the center of Earth? But those two aren't eternal, and yet hell, if it exists, is.

What if God only wants those that love him the most?

I'm listening to The God Delusion on Audible right now. What if God doesn't want us to even question his existence? That by reading even these, or magical materials, we are going against his desires?

When I was a Christian for 10 years it really messed me up, and made me cower. I haven't begged God for forgiveness for my past "sins".

We are far more judgmental than god is.

It's important to remember you are not dealing with a petty human intellect when talking about something as all encompassing as the Logos or God.

While it is true some NDE'ers experience a hell like experience, they are only experiencing that which they needed to experience to get them to change their lives. Some people are at a stage of vibration where they respond much better to that particular afterlife allegory than they do a heavenly paradise. Sometimes offering glimpses to people of heavenly paradise is actually quite detrimental to their spiritual evolution because from that point on all they want to do is die, so they can escape the hell that they have interpreted Earth school as, which has now been rendered even more painful by experiencing such a perfected heavenly realm (the warmth highlights the experience of the cold). This is also why many people who come close to death don't have a near death experience. The experience is not helpful to all souls.

But there is no permanent hell for souls, all there is is the interpretation of the One from a very distorted and separated perspective (a low vibrational interpretation) which makes things appear disjointed, disharmonious, and chaotic (and some STS souls actually desire to inhabit this realm). If you ever find yourself in a darkened astral realm surrounded by seemingly negative entities, turn your deepest thoughts towards the love of the one infinite creator and it will begin immediately raising your vibration to a level that these beings won't even want to be near you.

Thanks, anagogy!
I completely forgot to mention in my post, that these states are not permanent!
Depending on the individual and the state, it could last from pretty short to pretty long.
Someone who already had a broader view, like probably everyone one such aforim, would not experience anything like heaven, hell, non-existence and so on.
They would be much more open to receive help from all those helpful entities, thus receiving either the healing needed or they proceed immediately to the next stage.
As i mentioned above, michael roads accompanied various being on their afterlife journey, very insightful and highly recommendable!

There is much suffering on this planet. The saying "creating hell on earth" has to do with the intensity of suffering that can be experienced in this veiled 3d world. Warfare, slavery, manipulation, and infringement of free will creates suffering which can be likened to hell on earth.

Regarding all the NDE accounts and lower astral planes, remember there is a lot to review and work through after an incarnation. If an entity is blocked in the lower centers and has accumulated a bunch of karma, then their after death experience will consist of working through these blockages in order to return to a state where the next incarnation is possible. The lower astral planes are a pretty nasty place. When you're having a nightmare, that's probably the plane that your consciousness is currently located in. It's possible to access these planes of consciousness in other ways. The whole place is like a haunted forest or an abandoned, run down haunted house. Nasty vibrations, nasty entities, lost souls. This could definitely be called hellish as well. You want to find your way out of this place and into the open heart. If you do it while incarnated, you can begin work in the higher energy centers and become an adept. Even while we are awake during the day, portions of our consciousness still intersect with these planes. I feel that for the vast majority of unpolarized people, they don't find their way out of these "dark woods of the self" (as forum member Ankh called it) until after death.

But in the light of what we know from the Law of One, we can intellectually understand that the 4th density negative environment is what truly should be called Hell. I believe the original idea of Hell as given in Cristianity is indeed 4th density negative environment, presented in a way that the veiled, unpolarized 3rd density being is able to understand it. When a soul polarizes sufficiently negative to be able to harvest themselves to 4th density negative, you can bet your ass they're going to Hell. And once they've reached that point, Hell is a place that they WANT to go to (for better or worse). Maybe they actually ensure that they will have legions of slaves in their new 4th density incarnation within the negative social memory complex power structure. Maybe they're suckers and they'll be on the lowest tier of the hierarchy. Either way, it's the environment that is required to continue their spiritual evolution.

4th density positive looks a lot like Heaven from this veiled 3rd density environment.

IndigoGeminiWolf Wrote:What if I believe because I'm afraid to go to hell, or I want to go to heaven, instead of because I simply love God?

Then you are entering into another instance of what Ra describes as "well-meant and unintentional slavery".

Quote:83.12 Questioner: Then you say that there are no cases where those who are service-to-others oriented are using in any way techniques of enslavement that have grown as a result of the evolution of our social structures? Is this what you mean?

Quote:Ra: I am Ra. It was our understanding that your query concerned conditions before the veiling. There was no unconscious slavery, as you call this condition, at that period. At the present space/time the condition of well-meant and unintentional slavery are so numerous that it beggars our ability to enumerate them.

If you don't use your free will to determine that which you can truly place your faith into, then you are enslaving yourself.

IndigoGeminiWolf Wrote:What if only one of the 1000's of religions on Earth is right? I'm none of them, and may go to hell because of that if it exists.

If one is right, then another must be wrong. This is untrue. We are in a veiled realm of confusion. Remember that there is only one Path, in regards to opening the chakras, moving the kundalini up the spine, and polarizing in order to be of service and become harvestable. Almost all religions were started by a positively polarized adept who wished to share his knowledge of the Path. And ALL of them have been manipulated and distorted over time. They are useful to a certain extent. Using your free will to determine what is and isn't helpful is the most important skill to navigate this confusion.

IndigoGeminiWolf Wrote:What if God only wants those that love him the most?

Which God are we talking about here? The concept that you present can be traced back to the negative entity which impersonated Yahweh during the early days of Christianity. Of course that one would desire a large following of unpolarized, veiled 3rd density entities to believe they are elite. That entity is trying to acquire more slaves in order to further its negative polarization.

The haunted forest...  That's a real place in my mind, whats weird is how it mimics your description.  

But like, this place I found inside the lower sanctum of my green ray...  It had everything from creatures to monsters to others like me wandering around in there.

If that place is a real place somewhere in the astral realms, it makes me want to revisit it, and take my time there with more than a 'its not physically real, just inner subconscious imagery' approach to these things.

You and Aion have now in 48 hours provided information matching things I've already experienced.  This is going from weird to freaky.  I'm used to synchronocities being all around me, but this is truly a first that others are becoming the synchronicity.

All I have to add is that I wouldn't call all except the more pure dimensions of negative 4D hellish. In fact Dantes Inferno might be of aid in visualizing negative 4D.

We start with the beginnings, seen as limbo and an entrance into more pure forms of the dimensions of suffering.

I can't say these lower planes are inhabited by a swathe of condemned human souls, it seems every entity in those planes is typically there by choice, most short term, very few the looooong run, many in between, some we might view as 'demons' finding this places feel homey.

Their Hell is Their Heaven
Our Heaven is Their Hell

Both places share the same energies, its how that energy gets used that matters it seems.

All these insights in this thread. Very helpful for me.

What mechanism keeps STO people from accidentally ending up in 4D negative? That has not happened even once?

There are no accidents gemini. And that is even more true the more you go further in the densities.

(02-06-2017, 11:47 AM)IndigoGeminiWolf Wrote: [ -> ]

(02-06-2017, 09:56 AM)Nau7ik Wrote: [ -> ]HIGhLY recommend y'all to watch Howard Storm's NDE! Scott Mandelker did a class on it and he covers the entire experience with an eye to the metaphysics. Howard Storm was ignorant of anything spiritual or religious, he was an atheist. Yet he describes his NDE with great honesty, and because of his honesty in recounting the story, a rich avenue is opened up. We get to see his life choices that lead to his experience of hell, his "rescue", and then a glimpse of review, healing, and planning ahead. Also a glimpse at the fall of the US and the early beginning of fourth density. He walked the, what I would call, the steps of light, where the light becomes increasingly fuller of glory. It's all in there, truly incredible.

This an NDE that has real and valuable substance to it.

Link please.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL...QYoNBK6V4W

that is the link to the playlist with all of the videos, enjoy !

(02-06-2017, 05:21 AM)Muad-dib Wrote: [ -> ]There are very good description of the "states" human beings experience after their death in for example the seth material.
Also, michael roads (if anyone knows him, great books by the way!) investigated this extensively.
And, not to forget robert Monroe, who also has some good descriptions of his experiences.

To sum it up, after death, being in time/space, your surrounding would be much more flexible (as oppossed to the consensus reality on earth, which is more "fixed") and responding more directly to your beliefs and thoughts.
This would mean, if you believe in hell, you will experience hell ( if think you deserved it), if you believe in heaven you will end up in heaven, if you believe existence ends after physical death, you will experience a state in which you seem to not exist anymore.
There are always helpful entities around that help you out of that illusion. Some illusion seem to be hrader to "leave".
It seems they get get you quickly out of hell mostly, since its so unpleasant.
Heavens seems to be more difficult, since it would be much more pleasant.
Blieving in non-existence seems to be the hardest.

I've read of an encounter with a discarnate entity who was insisting in that he had died and thus didnt exist anymore, the entity was even ignoring the fact that it communicated and insised in his non-existence...

Are we more spiritually mature if we choose to skip that illusion of heaven and go straight into higher states?

If we skip the heaven experience, are we missing out of some things we desperately want to experience?

Those Chick Tracts would freak me the fk out....showing people thrown in a literal lake of fire. Dude.....thats fd up man!!!

But hey thats how you control a shyteload of folk eh!

I think, as some already said, heaven and hell are states that are to some extent already experinced in 3d Earth.

Circumstances of pain, conflicts etc. are also catalysts for progress. In Christianity this suffering is called "trials"(I'm not sure if I have used the right English word). This intense experience in 3d on our planet tests who you really are. It easy to be patient in environment full of harmony for example ...

Here we can also experience a taste of heaven. Where is love, compassion and understanding there is kingdom of heaven. I see some leftovers of innocent (unpolarized) edenic heavenly state in children's joy in simple things and couples falling in love. Latter it takes some effort and faith to find joy in life and to keep the flame of love alive.

IMO "judgement day" is harvest of souls. In that perspective real hell is 4d negative, heaven is 4d positive and repeating the 3d is purgatory.

Honestly, i dont think "heaven" would be 4d positive and "hell" 4d negative.
Its an transitional in-between state, much more illusory than the rest of our experience.
One would reside in these states only as long as it takes the self to realize its an illusion.

I would assume, and entity experiencing either heaven or hell would probably still go on in 3d.
In case an entity is more spiritual matute, as gemini said, it would not experience heaven, hell, non-existence or the likes, but would be able to perceive more of the "truth" of the situation.

4d postive or negative however is a density, that a 3d AFTER harvest into 4d would inhabit for a real long time, many many lifetimes in fact.

I think its less a comparison between 3d and 4d, but between space/time and time/space.

Indigo, I believe the illusions of heaven and hell are apart of the healing process. Q'uo talks our interesting position at the time of harvest tho. Some souls are very eager and excited about graduation so they may walk the steps of light after they die to see if they've made the cut and then continue on with the normal after death process.

It depends. We are not who we are while incarnate, after incarnation. Our true self comes forward. If you have the eagerness in life, then I think you will certainly have a more intense eagerness while discarnate.

(02-08-2017, 09:29 AM)Nau7ik Wrote: [ -> ]Indigo, I believe the illusions of heaven and hell are apart of the healing process. Q'uo talks our interesting position at the time of harvest tho. Some souls are very eager and excited about graduation so they may walk the steps of light after they die to see if they've made the cut and then continue on with the normal after death process.

It depends. We are not who we are while incarnate, after incarnation. Our true self comes forward. If you have the eagerness in life, then I think you will certainly have a more intense eagerness while discarnate.

I agree on the more eagerness. In my dream last night I was watching a movie called Moon with a bunch of anthros, and cartoon people in it. I can't remember the jist of it but I was profoundly interested in it.
On the rare times that sexuality is expressed, it is hightened in dreams.

I'll be more eager for healing after this life than walking the steps. I won't rush walking the steps unless it starts to get too long and boring. I don't want it to take a subjective year to walk them. Unless they come with flashbacks or interesting experiences while walking them. I'm almost nervous because I don't want to be uncomfortable at the top of them. I've experienced love I could not handle in an experience between myself and spirit and I don't want to really experience that again. Although if I experience too much love and light to handle I guess that'll make me take a few steps back. I just don't like the mystery of it where you don't know where 4D lies on the steps of light and you just have to get "lucky" and land on the right place without knowing how far to go. I would push a little extra hard if I knew that made the difference.