Bring4th

I was under the impression sixth density was based in time/space. This quote however, states the opposite...

Quote:Ra: I am Ra. I am sixth density with a strong seeking towards seventh
density. The harvest for us will be in only approximately two and one-half
million of your years and it is our desire to be ready for harvest as it
approaches in our space/time continuum.

Continuum can of course imply a vastly different experience.

Thoughts?

My impression was that each density can be experienced in either space/time (as our ordinary lives) or time/space. In space/time, we can easily perceive and move around in space, but motion in time happens to us automatically. Those in time/space can just as easily move to any particular time, just as we can move to any space; while their location in space is constant, fixed or persistent.

But as I read more, especially the 57.33 quote below, seems to imply that this distinction is only relevant for those of us living in 3D or beneath the Veil. The way that if we talked with a Flatlander, they might not be able to comprehend that Ahead, Up, and Right are concepts we can all instantly perceive at a single glance. This might be an analogy for how 4D+ entities can use both space and time.

41.19

Quote:Q: Could you tell me the difference between space/time and time/space?

Ra: I am Ra. Using your words, the difference is that between the visible and invisible or the physical and metaphysical. Using mathematical terms, as does the one you call Larson, the difference is that between s/t and t/s.

57.33

Quote:Q:... Could you please expand on the concept of space/time and time/space and how to get past this concept and what density level do these concepts no longer affect the individual?

Ra: I am Ra. ....

The space/time and time/space concepts are those concepts describing as mathematically as possible the relationships of your illusion, that which is seen to that which is unseen. These descriptive terms are clumsy. They, however, suffice for this work.

The space/time and time/space distinctions, as you understand them, do not hold sway except in third-density. However, fourth, fifth, and to some extent, sixth, work within some system of polarized space/time and time/space.

Session 70 starts a more detailed discussion of this.

Esmerelda has a poignant fictionalized description of a soul getting lost in negative time/space. I suspect that was one of the episodes that was perceived by the authors as an intuitive channeling.

Does this answer your question?

space/time and time/space are differently weighted parts of continuum. in one, space is a lot, time is scarce, in the other, space is scarce, time is a lot.

neither of these can be without the other aspect, and they diffuse each other apparently. so, it is not too far fetched to assume that there still will be space/time and time/space in 7d and on. but, very probably, they will be equally weighted. quite cool actually.

Thank you for the replies, perhaps I was not clear in stating - I understand the nature of both s/t and t/s, however, I was surprised to read Ra mentioning s/t specifically in 6th density.

To elaborate, third density is that of experiencing s/t. Time as the linear aspect as this allows the experiencing of perpetual/constant catalyst. Without the experience of time, all would be experienced at once, rather than the gradual learning curve we experience in this density.

As we move into 4D, we move towards existing in t/s, which becomes more and more apparent until we exist in fully t/s (which I was under the impression would be mid-late 4D), and able to vector in on specific s/t positions in order to serve and teach/learn. We do not need the same linear time as the choice of polarity has been made, and are now fulfilling roles in STO capacities and hence t/s let's us 'move' around and contact other density beings in particular moments of their timeline.

By 6th density, I was expecting experience to be of t/s existence. Hence this quote in particular, struck me as odd:

Ra Wrote:...it is our desire to be ready for harvest as it
approaches in our space/time continuum.

Surely, they would state in our time/space continuum.

Ah-ha! Figured it out. Ra is talking about the impending harvest, which is of cosmic/physical order, and as reliable 'as the clock hits the hour', as stated in Book I.

This would indicate that Ra is talking about the relative space/time location of their planetary system moving into a higher density portion of the galaxy, and hence the reference of being ready for the harvest.

(07-21-2010, 06:01 AM)Namaste Wrote: [ -> ]To elaborate, third density is that of experiencing s/t. Time as the linear aspect as this allows the experiencing of perpetual/constant catalyst. Without the experience of time, all would be experienced at once, rather than the gradual learning curve we experience in this density.

time is the measurement of change in positions/situations of existing entities compared to the change of positions/situations of other existing entities. basically, it is saying 'until my position regard to entity x has changed, the position of another entity y compared to entity x changed'. entities may be atoms, (hence, also accounting for internal change) people, or phsyical objects.

because physicality is very scarce in time/space, time is also abundant. physical positionality matters less, because physicality is low. thought has much more clout.

while going towards 8d, space/time and time/space apparently mix more and more.

4d entities' thoughts start to affect physical, (space/time), 5d entities can shape their body and engage in co-creative activities, 6d entities can manifest as they think to.

in 7d, the reproduction need ends, for there remains no need to reuse bodies, as Ra says. this means probably that the space/time and time/space integration becomes near completion, thoughts manifest as physical physical becomes as fluid as thoughts just as thoughts become as sharp and physical as space/time. this is how i understand 7d at the moment.

Quote:As we move into 4D, we move towards existing in t/s, which becomes more and more apparent until we exist in fully t/s (which I was under the impression would be mid-late 4D), and able to vector in on specific s/t positions in order to serve and teach/learn. We do not need the same linear time as the choice of polarity has been made, and are now fulfilling roles in STO capacities and hence t/s let's us 'move' around and contact other density beings in particular moments of their timeline.

that is a misconception - physicality always exists. the difference in between space/time and time/space disappears continually, just like the difference in male and female, positive and negative disappears as densities move on. there is physical reproduction until 7d, in any form that happens, because there is the need to create bodies to incarnate in.

remember Ra says towards the end of 5d, there remains almost no positive entity using any means to travel other than by thought. that means, even in 5d there are positive entities which need technological means to travel. the negative polarity seems even worse, the entities in negative 4d need technology for travel even more.

http://lawofone.info/results.php?session_id=52&ss=1#4

http://lawofone.info/results.php?session_id=52&ss=1#5

this means, there is a melding process of space/time and time/space, ie male, female, positive, negative, and as it increases both affect each other.

since negative polarity represses emotions, it is natural that they have more difficulty in dealing with time/space aspect of existence, and have more problems achieving travel by thought.

this means space/time and time/space not only both exist in regard to existence, but get harmonized and equalized increasingly over time. meaning that, even at the final point of infinity, there will be physicality and space, and there will be aether and time, but, they will be harmonized and equalized perfectly.

-------------------

however, compared to our current space/time, space/time of 5, 6d would naturally appear very much etheric probably, because our space/time is too heavy on the space side.

unity100 Wrote:that is a misconception - physicality always exists. the difference in between space/time and time/space disappears continually, just like the difference in male and female, positive and negative disappears as densities move on. there is physical reproduction until 7d, in any form that happens, because there is the need to create bodies to incarnate in.

Indeed, I was not under the impression is ceases to exist (s/t and t/s are of a reciprocal system), rather that when in 4D our experience will be based predominantly upon t/s, choosing to interact in s/t, rather than our awareness being locked/incarnated into it (as with 3D).

I agree that time/space will still have 'physicality', as it must be explored and experienced, although this will greatly differ in density, our bodies being much more dense with life (and paradoxically, much lighter). I am looking forward to remembering how this feels :¬)

(07-22-2010, 07:42 AM)Namaste Wrote: [ -> ]I agree that time/space will still have 'physicality', as it must be explored and experienced, although this will greatly differ in density, our bodies being much more dense with life (and paradoxically, much lighter). I am looking forward to remembering how this feels :¬)

I too am looking forward to remembering. I am tired here in 3D.

(07-20-2010, 06:59 PM)Namaste Wrote: [ -> ]I was under the impression sixth density was based in time/space. This quote however, states the opposite...

Quote:Ra: I am Ra. I am sixth density with a strong seeking towards seventh
density. The harvest for us will be in only approximately two and one-half
million of your years and it is our desire to be ready for harvest as it
approaches in our space/time continuum.

Continuum can of course imply a vastly different experience.

Thoughts?

Sixth density is primarily time/space focused, but it still has a small space/time component to it as well. The balance between space/time and time/space is changing in every density.

In first density, consciousness is predominantly polarized towards space/time. This is why red ray represents the grossest manifestation of matter. In sixth density, consciousness is primarily polarized towards time/space. As you go upward in the densities, the consciousness turns more and more inwards. In the lower densities the consciousness is predominantly turned outwards.

It's important to remember that matter is an illusion. It is just thought that has been projected outwards and translated vibrationally in a tangible way. As Ra said, "you are dancing in a ball-room in which there is no material."

(03-07-2014, 04:44 PM)anagogy Wrote: [ -> ]Sixth density is primarily time/space focused, but it still has a small space/time component to it as well.

I'm thinking 6D is rather balanced with respect to time/space and space/time

(03-07-2014, 04:44 PM)anagogy Wrote: [ -> ]In first density, consciousness is predominantly polarized towards space/time.

I'm thinking there is no polarity until 3D and time/space "awareness" is just as much as space/time in 1D.

(03-07-2014, 10:06 PM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ]I'm thinking 6D is rather balanced with respect to time/space and space/time

I used to think that too, but my opinion nowadays is that matter is just gradually just let go of in favor of mind, until, finally, in seventh density physical body complexes are discarded altogether.

One reason I say that is that the material expressions of the higher densities appear to become more and more "ethereal" (i.e. less physical or less tangible). And the mind component appears to become more dominant than the material expression, whereas the reverse is true in the lower densities.

There is a balance between time/space and space/time in my opinion, but it is found in 7th density. 1st density pure matter is the outer edge of 7th density, which is all mind. The illusion of matter is seen through, in other-words.

When all is seen from the inside out, there is no illusion of separation to perceive, which is what matter is. So in the same way that there can't really be positive polarity without negative polarity to define it, and yet when polarity is balanced everything is still positive by default, when the difference between mind and matter is dissolved in 7th density, it is still pretty much all mind by default.

(03-07-2014, 10:06 PM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ]I'm thinking there is no polarity until 3D and time/space "awareness" is just as much as space/time in 1D.

By polarized, I just mean there is very much an obvious material/tangible manifestation but the mind manifestation, relative to the higher densities appears to be miniscule. Them rocks ain't thinking too much, in other words.

The space/time material manifestation is a perfect reflection of the time/space mind manifestation however. In the case of 1D rocks, a very slow and dense manifestation. But matter is the inverse of mind, so the lack of inner expression at this level of vibration is balanced by a very pronounced or gross outer expression, hence its tangible physicalness. At higher densities, the increase in inner expression balances itself in a similar way by a more subtle material expression.

You do realize that space/time and time/space are the exact same thing? I'm pretty sure Ra even says they are about equally "in" both aspects.

DELETED

(03-08-2014, 01:21 PM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ]You do realize that space/time and time/space are the exact same thing? I'm pretty sure Ra even says they are about equally "in" both aspects.

I don't recall saying that they weren't the same thing. However, one would think that if they were the exact same thing Ra would have called them the exact same thing, which they did not. Space/time is the inverse of time/space.

Ra has stated that time/space represents the metaphysical side of things and space/time represents the physical side of things. They are reflections. But even a in a reflection the image reflected is a reversal of the true image. The material world is a reflection of the immaterial world. So the question becomes: if space/time and time/space are reflections, then what are they being reflected on, and also which is the reflection, and which is the thing being reflected?

The answer is that the mirror is the self. Mind is looking in the mirror (self reflecting), and matter is the reflection in the mirror. Mind is the inner time/space aspect and matter is the outer space/time aspect (the reversal of the inner perspective into an outer perspective). Self is the boundary between inner and outer.

Also, I'm not aware of any part of the Ra material where they say the parts are equal. The only thing I am aware of is that Ra has said that every time/space is an analog of a particular sort of space/time, which doesn't negate anything I've said in the slightest. But if you can provide a quote saying they are equal, I'd be interested to read it. In a sense they are equal, I suppose, but as I said before, the image being reflected is inverted, so narrow inner expression results in broad outer expression.

(03-09-2014, 01:14 AM)anagogy Wrote: [ -> ]Mind is the inner time/space aspect and matter is the outer space/time aspect (the reversal of the inner perspective into an outer perspective). Self is the boundary between inner and outer.

I thought that since the mind is complex, it was divided between time/space and space/time. Is there not a space/time equivalent of mind (the conscious mind)? While the subconscious mind is in time/space?

(03-09-2014, 01:11 PM)Gemini Wolf Wrote: [ -> ]I thought that since the mind is complex, it was divided between time/space and space/time. Is there not a space/time equivalent of mind (the conscious mind)? While the subconscious mind is in time/space?

Sort of.

The only way mind can really interact with the tangible translation of vibration is through a vibrational translator. In our case, it is the physical brain, which is like the nexus between our 3rd density mind and matter. Think of the brain like a window through which mind sees what we interpret as the physical world. So the brain is like the space/time version of the mind. It is the mind clothed in matter. It supports a certain level of mind expression. And yes, it would represent your 'conscious' mind. Until you die, and then conscious would be something else for you.

I've heard that 99% or more of who we truly are is subconscious. We are conscious of only the tip of the iceberg. So when we die and truly become conscious of this, it must be something awesome. Thank you anagogy for clearing this up. I thought though that the brain also processes subconscious data. Well, our higher self mind could be considered our subconscious as well. So it is very powerful.

(03-09-2014, 01:14 AM)anagogy Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-08-2014, 01:21 PM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ]You do realize that space/time and time/space are the exact same thing? I'm pretty sure Ra even says they are about equally "in" both aspects.

I don't recall saying that they weren't the same thing. However, one would think that if they were the exact same thing Ra would have called them the exact same thing, which they did not. Space/time is the inverse of time/space.

They are reciprocally related in mathematical terms. Also conjugates if you consider them as separate domains. However, the whole thought of physical/metaphysical only makes sense in 3rd density. That's why it's rather absurd to suggest that there is some kind of increase in time/space work past 3D.

Indeed, an entity in 4D or higher can move between time/space and space/time at will. But space/time and time/space take on a whole different meaning in those densities than they do in 3D. Makes me wonder if you even dream in 4D.

(03-09-2014, 10:44 PM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ]They are reciprocally related in mathematical terms. Also conjugates if you consider them as separate domains. However, the whole thought of physical/metaphysical only makes sense in 3rd density. That's why it's rather absurd to suggest that there is some kind of increase in time/space work past 3D.

You say it is absurd and that it only makes sense in 3D but you fail to provide any logical explanation for why that is the case.

I know that Ra material said that a fifth density negative entity spends most of its time in time/space. I wonder the same for positive.

(03-10-2014, 12:46 PM)Gemini Wolf Wrote: [ -> ]Indeed, an entity in 4D or higher can move between time/space and space/time at will. But space/time and time/space take on a whole different meaning in those densities than they do in 3D. Makes me wonder if you even dream in 4D.

The only difference between space/time and time/space in the higher densities is that there is no veil. Otherwise, it is exactly the same as 3rd density time/space and space/time distinctions.

There is still a polarized system of space/time and time/space in those higher densities. And they are still different from one another. There just isn't a barrier to perception of time/space while one is incarnate in a space/time body in those higher densities.

So for example, here, in 3rd density, you might not see a nonphysical being standing next to you (most people won't). In a 4th density space/time body, you would be very much aware of that fact. However, the fact that one is nonphysical and the other is physical would still be the same. And when you die in 4th density, you reside in time/space until your next incarnation in space/time.

(03-10-2014, 06:42 PM)anagogy Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-09-2014, 10:44 PM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ]They are reciprocally related in mathematical terms. Also conjugates if you consider them as separate domains. However, the whole thought of physical/metaphysical only makes sense in 3rd density. That's why it's rather absurd to suggest that there is some kind of increase in time/space work past 3D.

You say it is absurd and that it only makes sense in 3D but you fail to provide any logical explanation for why that is the case.

One glaring example: "The space/time and time/space distinctions, as you understand them, do not hold sway except in third density." In other words, no distinctions means it is absurd to force your idea of distinctions on them outside of 3D.

time/space and space/time are different aspects of the same thing where those aspects are only applicable with a 3D mind - and nowhere else. In later densities, there is balance with space/time and time/space and no, not an increasing focus on "mind". "Working with polarity" means working in a duality, and that involves time/space and space/time awareness coming *into balance* which of course means balanced awareness, which means balanced focus of both aspects of self (not more on "mind" or more in "time" which is a purely 3D notion.)

(03-10-2014, 11:33 PM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ]One glaring example: "The space/time and time/space distinctions, as you understand them, do not hold sway except in third density." In other words, no distinctions means it is absurd to force your idea of distinctions on them outside of 3D.

Ra was talking about the veil. The key words in that sentence are "as you understand them". We understand them through the veil. In higher densities, there is no veil, hence, a different understanding.

And I would just like to point out, even Ra makes distinctions between in them in the higher densities: "However, fourth, fifth, and to some extent, sixth, work within some system of polarized space/time and time/space."

And also, "43.11 Questioner: What is the… can you even state the average lifespan in the fourth density of space/time incarnation?
Ra: I am Ra. The space/time incarnation typical of harmonious fourth density is approximately 90,000 of your years as you measure time.

43.12 Questioner: Then, is there a time/space— Are there multiple incarnations in fourth density with time/space experiences between incarnations?

Ra: I am Ra. This is correct."

Just from that second quote you can see that there is clearly still a difference between space/time and time/space in the higher densities. If they were the same thing, why even make the distinction of where they dwell when out of incarnation? Conclusion: one is physical and one is nonphysical -- just like here.

I wonder in time/space if what you see looks physical, or if it's just light? Time/space is the dream state after all, isn't it?

(03-11-2014, 12:49 PM)Gemini Wolf Wrote: [ -> ]I wonder in time/space if what you see looks physical, or if it's just light?

It can look like however you translate it to look like. Your dreams take place in time/space.

(03-11-2014, 12:53 PM)anagogy Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-11-2014, 12:49 PM)Gemini Wolf Wrote: [ -> ]I wonder in time/space if what you see looks physical, or if it's just light?

It can look like however you translate it to look like. Your dreams take place in time/space.

By translate do you mean we can choose what we wish to see? Or is it out of our control much like a dream can be?

If I may answer my own question, when we're in time/space of a different density, or after death of 3D, we have expanded awareness. So we can make our landscape to look however we wish. We can use it as a learning tool when we have our past life review.

The way I see it is, in 6D space/time (and 5D), you leave your body in one place, and travel in time/space. Ra said they balanced much of their compassion through much time/space in 5D. So work in these densities is done more in time/space it seems. Perhaps one can learn better in them. I certainly could learn more from my dreams about myself than I can space/time self, since there's not much to say about myself.

(03-11-2014, 12:49 PM)Gemini Wolf Wrote: [ -> ]By translate do you mean we can choose what we wish to see? Or is it out of our control much like a dream can be?

It could be out of control if you were on a lower astral plane. However, the after death reality is generally more like a very lucid dream. You can control how the dream unfolds. And what I mean by translate is that you can perceive raw vibration in a variety of ways, some ways which you learn by exposure to incarnating in a body with structured physical sensory apparatuses that delivers information to consciousness in a specific way . What we call "physicality" is not near as solid as our bodies interpret it to be. Its tangible ness is how we translate it to be. Physicality is an interpretation of a certain threshold of vibration.

After death you are also meeting real entities, instead of just dream characters.

(03-12-2014, 09:33 AM)Gemini Wolf Wrote: [ -> ]After death you are also meeting real entities, instead of just dream characters.

Oh, so you think your dream characters aren't real?

You'll get over that.

I thought dream characters were aspects of our psyche, but that they are all us.