Bring4th

Full Version: Transition from time/space to space/time
You're currently viewing a stripped down version of our content. View the full version with proper formatting.
Does Ra mention whether entities reincarnate into the same linear space/time continuum from their previous life when incarnating from time/space? In other words, if a non-harvested 3D entity died in July 1901, would he enter that same space/time continuum perhaps a couple months or years later in 1901 or 1920 on that same continuum? Or does the "time" on the space/time continuum vary from life to life?

Does one go backwards or only forward? I realize time is cyclical in nature and there is only one eternal moment, but it is linear in space/time and some portions of space/time are closer to harvest.

Please let me know if this question is unclear and I will respecify.
From the way I have read it there is nothing to suggest to me that we reincarnate in 'previous' times, at least Ra never seems to suggest that. Although linear time maybe isn't as 'straight' as it may appear. Maybe I have missed something. However that is strictly in terms of incarnation, a higher density being can form a body as well without incarnating and Ra did say that they themselves are able to be with us 'in any of' our times and could form a body, so I would say that maybe incarnation happens as a progress through time but that any time can be accessed and 'visited' by a sufficiently developed entity.

The difficulty is that there does appear to be some history to the world. Every moment has every previous moment engraven in it, so there is a consideration of what has 'actually happened' as opposed to what has only happened in other parallels. I think there is an attachment to the impermanence of events which drives people to want to conclude that there is no objective linear process but I think that consciousness itself plays the role of focusing a widely defined subjective self in to an objectively linear process.

Personally I think there is some flex in where you can incarnate in time but that there are limits according to your vibrational tendencies. I don't think we have total freedom of choice simply due to our own natures which are driven by seeking. By the time you reach the flexibilities to move to any time you will already have freed yourself from the cycles and so this question is superfluous at that point I think.
Time/Space Space/Time.

Flow state, and the effort to get into a flow state.
(03-08-2017, 05:43 PM)Henosis Wrote: [ -> ]Does Ra mention whether entities reincarnate into the same linear space/time continuum from their previous life when incarnating from time/space? In other words, if a non-harvested 3D entity died in July 1901, would he enter that same space/time continuum perhaps a couple months or years later in 1901 or 1920 on that same continuum? Or does the "time" on the space/time continuum vary from life to life?

Does one go backwards or only forward? I realize time is cyclical in nature and there is only one eternal moment, but it is linear in space/time and some portions of space/time are closer to harvest.

Please let me know if this question is unclear and I will respecify.

Interesting question!

Ra has not explicitly stated that we incarnate in previous time periods. However, they have said some interesting things, such as:


70.12 Questioner: Then what we are looking at is a long path of experience through the densities up to mid-sixth density which are a function totally of free will and result in the awareness of the higher self in mid-sixth density, but since time is illusory and there is a, shall I say, unification of time and space or an eradication of what we think of as time, then, all of this experience that results in the higher self, the cause of evolvement through the densities, is existing while the evolvement takes place, since it’s all simultaneous. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. We refrain from speaking of correctness due to our understanding of the immense difficulty of absorbing the concepts of metaphysical existence. In time/space, which is precisely as much of your self as is space/time, all times are simultaneous just as, in your geography, your cities and villages are all functioning, bustling, and alive with entities going about their business at once. So it is in time/space with the self.


This would seem to imply that incarnating in different time periods is a perfectly valid possibility. However, Ra's modus operandi was such that they would not have volunteered such a confusing and bewildering possibility unless Don had asked them point blank. As Ra said, "We refrain from speaking of correctness due to our understanding of the immense difficulty of absorbing the concepts of metaphysical existence." They know this stuff is a can of worms for the linear mind, thus, only people that like to bend their minds into pretzels will have the real possibility of understanding this type of metaphysical reality.

Having said that, let me just say it is my understanding that you do not have to incarnate in a linear fashion. The laws of the universe do not physically or nonphysically prevent or forbid this interesting possibility.

However, there is a caveat to that statement, and that is this: MOST 3rd density beings WILL be incarnating in a linear fashion, though it has nothing to do with it being an imposed requirement. Perhaps the most lucid way to communicate the 'why' of it would be to compare the 3rd density master cycle to the master cycle of a 3rd grade classroom. Now, you could, theoretically drop into this class in the middle of the course syllabus. It is certainly a valid possibility, however, lets get real, you would be lost without the intervening course material to serve as a base by which to understand the concepts that were designed to be based on the previously given teachings/learnings. And therein lies the answer as to why most 3rd density beings will be incarnating linearly. The 3rd density master cycle presents different lessons during different time periods. Different ages allow for different understandings to be had. Couple this also with the fact that you are often going through this 3rd density class with your soul family, or 'soul cluster'. You want to incarnate in the same time frames as your cherished companions, to absorb similar or tangential lessons as these other beings whom you have karmic distortions to work out with. So you see, there are very salient reasons why a soul cluster would travel through incarnations in such a linear manner or progression, though there is no requirement that a being MUST do so. There is no barrier preventing them incarnating in another time frame (or on other planets, though, again, most souls will choose to work out their karmic distortions on the same planet with the same soul 'friends/companions/family').

Revered astral explorer Robert Monroe went on all sorts of amazing out of body journeys during his living incarnation (I'm quite jealous of his adventures) which he detailed in his very interesting trilogy of his exploits which I highly recommend. He was informed by various highly evolved soul friends that many advanced (higher density souls) were incarnating in what, to their reckoning, was their chronological past (which is our chronological present) in order to experience certain things and perfect certain qualities before going back to their native, highly evolved, time space references in what would seem like our future.

Another interesting tidbit I will bequeath to you is that time is not a linear line that extends forever (it is more like a spherical bubble formed in order to facilitate temporal experience). In the same way that if you were to travel in one direction over the surface of the earth you would end up right back where you started because the earth is a sphere, if you travel far enough in the stream of time you will end up at the same place you started because time is also spherical! Isn't that interesting? Well, I thought so.

It seems most everything, dimension-ally speaking, is spherical in nature: planets, space, time, our consciousness, etc. The alpha is always the omega, the beginning and the end. Now, that doesn't mean the sphere can't be nigh incomprehensibly massive -- so massive that you never see or understand the nature of the 'round trip', but it is a sphere nonetheless.

The circle never ceases.
Yeah, exactly, that. ^
Awesome responses. Very insightful thank you.

Do you think these soul clusters relate to our astrological signs? Would these soul clusters or signs represent different archetypes of the psyche?

The reference to the ages following a syllabus is very enlightening. Perhaps the Piscean age is the last chapter of the third density syllabus.

Love and Light
(03-08-2017, 09:26 PM)GentleReckoning Wrote: [ -> ]Time/Space Space/Time.

Flow state, and the effort to get into a flow state.

That is my understanding/experience as well.

Imho:

In space/time, space seems static and time seems like it is flowing like a river. In time/space, time is static (eternal now) and space seems like it is flowing like a river

Space/time seems to morph into time/space when you achieve some kind of constant meditative state by not being attached or identified to anything within your consciousness. That meditative state, imho, is achieved by "not being there". When that happens, you are identified with the stillness of the consciousness (time) and the content of the consciousness (space) becomes the river.

It's like the "NOW" becomes the non-moving reference instead of the 3d physical world being the non-moving reference.

I believe children, at least very young ones, are in such a state.

Something like that. Might be 100% wrong tho, it's just my theory about it, I shared it because GentleReckoning seems to be referring to something similar
It's pretty fun to think about. Like anagogy said, other sources have claimed in a straightforward way that incarnating into the "past" is a possibility, or even having simultaneous incarnations alive at the same time.

In my own reading of the Ra material, there seems to be a heavy focus on progression. Not just of incarnating individuals, but just an overall type of progression of the universe. There is a sequence to how we got from infinity to the illusion we are at right now, or how we get from third density to fourth, or from one octave to the next. Some of these progressions may not necessarily be temporal progressions but just logical progressions. One of the hardest things about trying to grasp these time-bending concepts is that our third-density brains are so hard-wired to view progression as a temporal phenomenon that it's hard to understand what it means for time to have any non-linear qualities.

Acknowledging this third-density bias, I have to say that the sense I get from the Ra material (and the feeling I have in general) is that incarnations are generally more linear than other sources might imply. I say generally to leave room for the fact that in an infinite creation, there are infinite exceptions, but I do believe the exceptions are a deviation of some type of norm.


The time/space and space/time equivalence
The quote that anagogy shared is most revealing when it comes to trying to grasp what time/space is like. I do think that there is a wide range of interpretation that can go into it. When Ra says that all times are simultaneous in time/space, just as all space is existing in our space/time, there is an aspect of our space/time that I think is important to transfer in that equivalence - that is, even though all of space/time exists within our space/time experience, it is not all available to us.

Consider just how much of our current space/time is available to us as 3rd density beings. How much of our space/time do you see in your day to day lives? In your entire lifetime? It's a very small slice compared to our city, let alone our countries, planet, solar system, galaxy, universe. Sure, all of space is existing simultaneously, but how much of that can you travel? Theoretically, with the right technology, you could travel anywhere. I think similarly, theoretically, all of time could be available in time/space, but realistically, there are limitations on just what is available to us at certain points in our journey.

And even when we reach a certain point in our development where travel in space/time is unlimited due to disciplines of the personality, it doesn't mean that we would travel everywhere or anywhere. Ra supposedly could go anywhere in the universe, but they have stated limits to where they have physically traveled for whatever reason. It could be similar in time/space - an ability to incarnate at any time might be possible, but wouldn't be utilized for whatever reason.


There are some passages from the Ra material that I think speak to this view, such as:
Quote:71.6 The hallmark of time/space is the inequity between time and space. In your space/time the spatial orientation of material causes a tangible framework for illusion. In time/space the inequity is upon the shoulders of that property known to you as time. This property renders entities and experiences intangible in a relative sense. In your framework each particle or core vibration moves at a velocity which approaches what you call the speed of light from the direction of supraluminal velocities.

Thus the time/space or metaphysical experience is that which is very finely tuned and, although an analog of space/time, lacking in its tangible characteristics. In these metaphysical planes there is a great deal of what you call time which is used to review and re-review the biases and learn/teachings of a prior, as you would call it, space/time incarnation.

I see this quote as presenting another equivalence of space/time and time/space, in that it shows a limited portion of time available within this certain experience of time/space. There is certainly a great abundance of time available in this scenario, but it is limited within the scope of that entity's experiences and used for a specific purpose. I think the same could be said about how space/time experience.

I think this hints at the same thing:
Quote:70.17 I perceive a basic miscalculation upon your part in that time/space is no more homogenous than space/time. It is as complex and complete a system of illusions, dances, and pattern as is space/time and has as structured a system of what you may call natural laws.

It is the natural laws of space/time which limit our ability to traverse the infinite universe and be at any given space/time nexus, so similar time/space laws may prevent access to that "all of time" which is hypothetically available and limit us to a linear progression of incarnation.


Uncertain futures
A minor point which makes me think the way I do is that even to Ra, the past was (apparently) fixed, while the future was uncertain. They could speak only in probabilities and possibilities, and they themselves could not see how their actions would unfold along a linear path. Yet they were able to speak about events of the past with more surety, as if it were already determined.

In my mind, this would lead to a logical conclusion that the "past" incarnations are in our linear "past." They have happened, they have contributed to our present balance and configuration, and we have arrived at the present nexus through those events which are not solidified in the past. The events have happened.

Were incarnation able to happen along a less linear path, the past and future would not be so distinctly different for Ra. Our current incarnations could be from our "future selves," future selves which have already experienced lifetimes in the future. But if the future has "already happened," why is it only a possibility/probability? And Ra, existing at a similar level as the Higher Self, explicitly says that they are not yet free of the past/present/future progression of time:


Quote:36.5 Questioner: Could you give an example of an entity, possibly one from our historical past, possibly any entity that you might choose if you don’t wish to name one, and give an example of how this type of programming by the higher self would then bring about the education through parallel experiences please?

Ra: I am Ra. Perhaps the simplest example of this apparent simultaneity of existence of two selves, which are in truth one self at the same time/space, is this: the Oversoul, as you call it, or Higher Self, seems to exist simultaneously with the mind/body/spirit complex which it aids. This is not actually simultaneous, for the Higher Self is moving to the mind/body/spirit complex as needed from a position in development of the entity which would be considered in the future of this entity.

(It's important to note that there is a unique relationship between the mind/body/spirit complex totality and the Higher Self, both existing at different "points" of progression. The totality likely is not beholden to linear time and it has gifted the Higher Self with a certain type of ability or knowledge of the progression of the entity without revealing the actual events of the "future.")

We will reincarnate and make decisions about our reincarnation up to a certain point of our progression. Up to the point of progression that Ra is at, the future is still an unknown thing, and the past is more solidified. And so I think it's logical to assume that our decisions about our reincarnation will be determined by this linear view of time.

And this quote conveniently brings up my final point, which is about simultaneous incarnations. The idea of a non-linear progression would also support a concept of simultaneous incarnations. Your current incarnation might be further along in progression than another incarnation at the same time in another part of the world.

But the example Ra gives is of the Higher Self, which is a distinctly different concept than having just any random point of progression existing simultaneously to another random point of progression. The Higher Self is a specific being, a specific part of our progression, and that it exists at the same time is mystifying, but not evidence that we incarnate into simultaneous experiences. (Slightly different topic than the OP, but still relevant I think.)


But I will end with reiterating that what I find logical will obviously be highly colored by my current third-density mind which necessarily defines things in the sense of temporal progression. Ra's words were not definitive or conclusive, I only draw a certain conclusion from them, and that conclusion is obviously biased by my experience. This is another topic that seems just wide open for imagination and interpretation.
I wanted to offer a concept in regards to one of the more confusing aspects of time and metaphysical existence -- specifically the confusing notion that even though our higher self is "us in the future" that it still, for some bizarre reason, doesn't know what our particular future will be.

First off, I want to say I don't claim to know anything, these are just ideas that have been impressed upon me over the course of my life and make sense to me. The only thing I really know is that I know nothing. So with that disclaimer let me offer an explanation of how this is even a possibility.

I don't think it is too foreign a concept to state that multiple outcomes may extend from the same cause (different futures can extend from the same present/initial conditions). This is pointed out more eloquently by quantum physics. There is this notion in Newtonian physics that the universe is composed of a nearly uncountable amount of tiny billiard balls (particles) and if you knew all the forces and conditions acting on each billiard ball you could theoretically predict with absolute certainty where their trajectories would take them (determinism). Quantum physics tells us this notion is not completely accurate. You can't actually specify the position of a particle because it doesn't actually have a literal 'position', it has something more akin to a 'probability cloud'. You can only say where it most "likely is". The more you know about where a particle is, the less you know where it is going. You can't simultaneously specify momentum and position. At the quantum level, these two pieces of data are antithetical to one another (i.e. Heisenberg's uncertainty principle).

What may be a slightly more exotic and foreign concept to think about is this notion in reverse: multiple pasts can extend from the same present as well. The thing is, in time/space virtually all time lines exist. Almost every parallel reality you could possibly imagine is present and accounted for. All trajectories of consciousness begin with the One and return to the One. You can think of it as a sort of 'hypersphere of probability'. All these realities are real. The past, present, and future all simultaneously exist as well as *almost* every alternate version of them. Think of it like this: you are traveling from Los Angeles to New York, and all the pathways between the two points exist (and someone is traveling them), but the actual pathway you take it determined by you. These are the pathways through time. Future You remembers their past, (the particular roads they traveled) but it is not necessarily the same path that you will have, because of 'probability drift'.

Imagine if you threw a dart at a dart board from 10 feet away. You have an intent to hit the center of the dart board, and when you throw the dart (the action/choice), it hits somewhere on the dartboard. You then do it a hundred more times. You begin to get a rough idea of where it is likely to end up on the dartboard. You can perceive the 'most likely' probability vortice that will occur. This is analogous to the rough road map your higher self has of your progress through the densities. And then imagine if you stood 20 feet away, or 30 feet way, or 40 feet away -- the likelihood of that dart ending up in a more unpredictable place becomes greater and greater the further you get away from the dartboard. This is why it becomes increasingly more difficult to make specific predictions the further out in the future you go because of this 'probability drift' (even if you travel in time/space into the future -- you see the future, but whose future? Which version of you's future?). Again, the small variances at the quantum level begin to pile up into macroscopic changes in the actual timeline. The winds of fate take you to strange and distant shores.

Beings who travel from their future into the past are similarly subject to this probability drift, they can move into the past (and probably very close to the past that they personally remember), but even their past is not going to be exactly the same as the first one they went through, because they are no longer a vibrational match to that specific probability.

So take Ra as an example, who are attempting to ameliorate the distortions they caused by interacting with the Egyptians, they are most likely operating in many different parallel timelines/dimensions at the same time, trying to 'contain' the probabilities where free will was inadvertently abridged by their actions, to the best of their ability, and prevent them from spreading further into time than they need to. In all likelihood, there is no way to completely ameliorate the distortions they are responsible for but I think it is more for karmic balancing on their part than anything, which assists them in making progress within their own density.

So your higher self is still 'you' in the future, but in some ways it is still a different entity than you. One thing you can be sure of though is that you are a vibrational match to its desire to assist its past self, else the connection would have never been formed with this particular 'version' of its self. Whatever past 'self' you represent, in a probable reality sense, it was a vibrational match to its needs to be of service as well. You are in resonance with that particular future version of yourself.  
(03-23-2017, 03:07 PM)anagogy Wrote: [ -> ]Almost every parallel reality you could possibly imagine is present and accounted for. All trajectories of consciousness begin with the One and return to the One.

Why do you say 'almost?' isn't it "literally every" reality?

(03-23-2017, 03:07 PM)anagogy Wrote: [ -> ]Future You remembers their past, (the particular roads they traveled) but it is not necessarily the same path that you will have, because of 'probability drift'.

So your higher self is still 'you' in the future, but in some ways it is still a different entity than you. One thing you can be sure of though is that you are a vibrational match to its desire to assist its past self, else the connection would have never been formed with this particular 'version' of its self. Whatever past 'self' you represent, in a probable reality sense, it was a vibrational match to its needs to be of service as well. You are in resonance with that particular future version of yourself.

Doesn't the higher self that interacts with you change constantly to be the one that is vibrationally compatible with its past self? Because you are never without a higher self - there is always a future you that arose as a result of your current state. The one that interacts with you must always be the one most compatible with you.

So then it is a different entity in the sense of timeline, but really it's absolutely the same entity. I guess I'm not comprehending how you and your higher self could even be separate at all, especially not from your higher self's perspective.

And how can one ever unite completely with one's higher self if it exists in the future?
(03-24-2017, 01:50 AM)sjel Wrote: [ -> ]Why do you say 'almost?' isn't it "literally every" reality?

I say 'almost' to account for the fact that some possibilities cannot logically fully manifest due to the fact nothingness is not a real possibility. There is no reality where you don't exist, and the suddenly do exist for example. This is just my personal opinion, but existence is all there is, and all forms (explorations of limitation) extend from it and return to it. I wish there were better words -- these things seem so simple in my mind but sound complicated when put into words. So I would say: all realities that are possible are present.

(03-24-2017, 01:50 AM)sjel Wrote: [ -> ]Doesn't the higher self that interacts with you change constantly to be the one that is vibrationally compatible with its past self? Because you are never without a higher self - there is always a future you that arose as a result of your current state. The one that interacts with you must always be the one most compatible with you.

So then it is a different entity in the sense of timeline, but really it's absolutely the same entity. I guess I'm not comprehending how you and your higher self could even be separate at all, especially not from your higher self's perspective.

Again, it is more a case of my poor word choice. In some sense there is no separation between any being because we are all the same self.

The 'version' you interact with would be narrowed by what you 'know' about its identity. So the more you get to know it, the less latitude for different versions there would be. Knowledge restricts 'other' possibilities. Sort of like the particle and wave in the famous double slit experiment. If you 'look' or 'know' the specific actions of the particle, it goes through one slit, if you don't it goes through both slits. Observation, or knowledge of its identity, restricts which versions you interact with. Trippy and bewildering, but that is my current understanding.  

(03-24-2017, 01:50 AM)sjel Wrote: [ -> ]And how can one ever unite completely with one's higher self if it exists in the future?

Because time (the exploration of finity) is just a circle (the beginning and ending are the same), and where you fall on that circle is just a matter of what you identify with. So when your identification expands to encompass that particular state of development, you are then 'one' with it (or perhaps you have become identified with infinity itself -- the whole circle rather than just a portion of it).
I think what the Higher Self is unaware of is the effect of its actions toward its past self, which instantly becomes known the moment it does an action as it adds to it's beingness and spiritual mass and allows it to grow and evolve. All it's actions are based on what is known of itself. Contemplated actions that are not done through itself still hold creative power which will manifest their balance in the Higher Self's external beingness, external many-ness. But it ever ever ever holds a view of outside your distortions and is aware of how they would resolve were it to let you find your way without assistance. It's basicly like two different time streams where our lower time stream emerges into the other time stream and that other time stream also emerges into its upper time stream (7D beingness) which also does emerge into the Source just like our beingness within the Octave emerges from the Source as the harvest of the experience of a previous Octave into this Octave. It's much like an infinite flow ever growing. Interactions with lower time streams allow them to become more complex which in turn allows the upper time streams to also become more complex.

I can't say I am a 100% sure of this, but it would seem to me that all our Higher Selves were partakers of the veilless Octave reality which was without negative densities altogether, and the entire use of a veil within 3D and further exploration of STS were orchastred by them as a mean to offer to their past selves what they found lacking in their experience. They did not find satisfaction and as such sought more to be offered to the Creator they are in its experience and as a result the KNOWLEDGE of LOVE within the ALL ever grows and grows to quench the infinite thrist of the Creator to know Itself.
I think that this is one of the coolest threads around, but my Myers-Briggs type thinks things that other types would call a load of BS. Wink

Anyway, I too believe that we usually live lives in temporal order, but I might see a large benefit in grabbing an existence out of order for a specific purpose. The most important purpose, I expect, is that only one more 3D life with a certain set of catalyses would serve to bump me up to 4D.

Even if we jumble a lot of lives out of order, we probably can protect ourselves from being confused by it and others from exposure to a freakish person who "knows too much" or something. Never sell The One short.
In my imagination I often used think how it would be if I could just jump in my body from my yunger age and use my mature experience and power to easily deal with difficult people and correct some situations. Is this something similar that Higher Self is doing?