Bring4th

Hell no end to neutral no end no end. No end. karmic system is torture.

Where is God. Where is It. Where is intelligence. Where is the higher intelligence. Why the f*** do all my thoughts turn away from me. Why don't the entities face me directly. Why do they face sideways smiling. All the entities are facing sideways, not looking at me. Smiling. This is absolute torture. This is endless torture. All of my thoughts are limited and I perceive no greater intelligence than these weak thoughts. My thoughts and my perceptions are the highest thing I can perceive. This is Hell. Hell is when existence has a limit. The limit is my own mind.

Every single thought inspiration that comes to me is a new torture. This thought inspiration, "Keep searching," "Zoom your sense of 'I' outwards until you reach the One." These higher self thoughts are mocking me. I see suicide as the only option for reuniting with the One. I see no end to this endless fruitless search. I have been dedicated for two years and literally all of it is trash. Every spiritual achievement I have achieved is trash. I have accepted trash as my inspiration. Dull smiling sideways-facing motherfuckers who murmur some colorless inspiration to keep me going. "everyone awakens eventually, don't worry " "you are progressing!" " you are the infinite" "Who is 'I?' Meditate on that forever." "you are infinitely loved." And these sayings come out of the mouths of nothing-ghosts, wisps of thought that have no intelligence. I have been listening to fake thoughts for years. I have nothing, all has been trash.

I sobbed with extreme concentration for 45 minutes into the darkness, discarding every stupid repetitive thought that comes into my mind, "WHERE ARE YOU, PLEASE SHOW ME ONE THING, JUST ONE THING THAT DEMONSTRATES HIGHER INTELLIGENCE." Every single thought was my ego mind trying to keep me trapped in my small little bubble: "you're already experiencing it!" "This is IT, this is infinity " "It's all around you, it is infinitely part of you" All bullshit, they have no value. I'm not TRYING to reject these thoughts either, I am simply observing their lack of impact on my soul.

Hell Hell Hell Hell this is no end I am back where I started. Help Help. Extreme trapped. EXtreme trapped. Infinitely trapped, I cannot move from this trap, because I AM THE TRAP. The trap IS ME. I am Trap. I am Trapped in Me, Trap.

EXTREME FEAR to the point of paralyzation. I cannot move, the fear is deeper than any love I have ever known. Literally am paralyzed, earlier I tried to stop breathing. I want to kill myself. I want to die. This Earth is miserable pain. Pleasure is disgusting. Pain is horrifying.

I don't know how to deal with this energy. This happens often, this rage and paralyzing world-hatred. Each time is more horrifying than the last. If it continues like this I will be dead soon. Eventually the hell will be so great I cannot bear existence any longer.

What is the purpose of this experience. It is pure hellish confusion. Here is audio of my Hell: http://vocaroo.com/i/s0eOIEynjCjv I became lucid enough during the episode to press record. I don't know why I recorded it, I did though. at 2:00 I start really screaming. sorry for the pain.

maybe it seems like im faking it but no it hurts real bad. i dont know how we all havent committed suicide yet.

Another thing why would I experience such great love experiences only to come back again and again and again and again to Hell? This hell is much deeper than the love experiences, it makes the love experiences seem downright shallow and indifferent to me. I have a metallic smell in my nose and gravity seems to be shifting my head downwards. I am very very very very very very very confused. Please love me.

Why don't you join us in meditation in 15mins? Maybe some company will help you.

Don't worry friend, you're not alone. It sounds to me like you are going through a very heavy Dark Night of the Soul. These tend to be the most challenging experiences of our lives but the upside is that once you pass through, and you will, you will discover new light that maybe needed some space that other thoughts were occupying.

https://www.eckharttolle.com/newsletter/october-2011

dread feeling in whole body, hell

(03-22-2017, 12:47 AM)Aion Wrote: [ -> ]Don't worry friend, you're not alone. It sounds to me like you are going through a very heavy Dark Night of the Soul. These tend to be the most challenging experiences of our lives but the upside is that once you pass through, and you will, you will discover new light that maybe needed some space that other thoughts were occupying.

https://www.eckharttolle.com/newsletter/october-2011

but it's not deep enough to be the deepest darkest. the hell deepens and deepens and continues down infinitely. i am barely scratching the surface of this hell. i am continuing spiralling broadening hell

therefore meaningless because i am not in the darkest of it yet. next time will be wrose. and next time even worse, and next time will be the worst, at which point i will kill myself due to complete and total lack of coherent thought. right now i can think. means it's not over yet. more hell to come.

(03-22-2017, 12:51 AM)sjel Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-22-2017, 12:47 AM)Aion Wrote: [ -> ]Don't worry friend, you're not alone. It sounds to me like you are going through a very heavy Dark Night of the Soul. These tend to be the most challenging experiences of our lives but the upside is that once you pass through, and you will, you will discover new light that maybe needed some space that other thoughts were occupying.

https://www.eckharttolle.com/newsletter/october-2011

but it's not deep enough to be the deepest darkest. the hell deepens and deepens and continues down infinitely. i am barely scratching the surface of this hell. i am continuing spiralling broadening hell

therefore meaningless because i am not in the darkest of it yet. next time will be wrose. and next time even worse, and next time will be the worst, at which point i will kill myself due to complete and total lack of coherent thought. right now i can think. means it's not over yet. more hell to come.

You seem thoroughly convinced of that. So long as you are so convinced it will be exceedingly difficult to have it any other way for you are reinforcing the future.

Either you are going to sink to the bottom or you are going to muster the will to live. You know this, you see the path. So why just watch yourself fall?

(03-22-2017, 12:55 AM)Aion Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-22-2017, 12:51 AM)sjel Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-22-2017, 12:47 AM)Aion Wrote: [ -> ]Don't worry friend, you're not alone. It sounds to me like you are going through a very heavy Dark Night of the Soul. These tend to be the most challenging experiences of our lives but the upside is that once you pass through, and you will, you will discover new light that maybe needed some space that other thoughts were occupying.

https://www.eckharttolle.com/newsletter/october-2011

but it's not deep enough to be the deepest darkest. the hell deepens and deepens and continues down infinitely. i am barely scratching the surface of this hell. i am continuing spiralling broadening hell

therefore meaningless because i am not in the darkest of it yet. next time will be wrose. and next time even worse, and next time will be the worst, at which point i will kill myself due to complete and total lack of coherent thought. right now i can think. means it's not over yet. more hell to come.

You seem thoroughly convinced of that. So long as you are so convinced it will be exceedingly difficult to have it any other way for you are reinforcing the future.

Either you are going to sink to the bottom or you are going to muster the will to live. You know this, you see the path. So why just watch yourself fall?

because this path of failing is so abundantly clear as to be inherently obvious. it is crystal clear, no doubts, no obstacles except the will to live. the will to live only brings challenges and continued isolation. even my happiest moments i am completely alone. the will to live is hazy and uncertain. the positive path is hazy and uncertain, the path of failing downward is crystal clear. why should the system be arranged like this. why does the system drag you down with all your energy.

If you need to talk, and release all that, just come in chat

Well it seems Ra has some thoughts on this and it seems to have to do with the Veil that is between the conscious and unconscious mind.

Quote:94.20 Questioner: The magical shape is on the right edge of the card indicating to me that the spiritual significance is on the right edge of the card, indicating to me that the spiritual experience would be the right-hand path. Could Ra comment on that?
Ra: I am Ra. Yes. The figure is expressing the nature of experience by having its attention caught by what may be termed the left-hand catalyst. Meanwhile, the power, the magic, is available upon the right-hand path.

The nature of experience is such that the attention shall be constantly given varieties of experience. Those that are presumed to be negative, or interpreted as negative, may seem in abundance. It is a great challenge to take catalyst and devise the magical, positive experience. That which is magical in the negative experience is much longer coming, shall we say, in the third density.

They say that the reason for the Veil is to induce the choosing of a polarity and through this Veil our experienced here has been intensely 'vivified'. As such, they suggest catalyst is also for this purpose of choosing a path.

So, for all you have seen and the suffering you see on the planet, it causes you to want to run and that is the flight response, but if you choose to fight, what do you fight for?

I say you have the strength to work through this and it is okay if you feel you do not. Vulnerability can be difficult but also freeing. I appreciate you sharing your difficulties with us so we may share in empathy.

Also, maybe could use a nice big hug, eh?

sjel - you recently experienced an INCREDIBLY intense psychological and PSYCHIC hatred attack from your Father... this has ripped into you and threatens to break you into pieces, because you are a creature of LOVE and it was an almost totally destructive aura tearing experience of hate...

I feel you are in need of emergency spiritual first aid - let your mother know you are in extreme distress - ask for help ASAP.

Yeah, you would likely benefit from some personal comfort from someone close, I agree, wishing you all the best, friend.

Dear Sjel,
you are not alone!!!

I know this pain that you describe and the wish to immediately die all too well!
I have been there many times myself and i am not afraid of it anymore.
And i have accompanied many people through this, they all made it, and so will you.

I am close to tears hearing of your pain.
I you want you can imagine me sitting with you in your pain.
I am holding your hand, i have a hand placed on your heart, there place i feel it is most needed.
I will sing a few Icaros, shamanic healing songs to you, my dear brother.
And i will not leave before that pain subsides!

I am calling upon Jesus, Krishna and Babji you aid with their love and presence.
I am calling upon the sacred beings of Ra to be present with you, those from Ra back home.
I dont have to call upon those of Ra incarnated here and being around on this forum, because I know they hear you, they see you and they all hold your hand ( if your hand hurts this evening, youll know why).

I am so sorry there is such a physical distance between us, i would prefer to be there in person!
But I am sending my inner being to you, not only the guy that post weird stuff, but moreso what i really am!

-----------------
Stillness
-----------------
Tears
-----------------
Love
-----------------

I would prefer to help you move out of thought, but since your thoughts are very active now anyway, i could as well offer some constructive ones.
This could well be one of the most transformative experiences of your life!
I went through this many times. The pain was so intense and the urge to die almost irresistable.
The pain didnt get easier, but each time that would arise, i could stay more present, it didnt happen for a long time now, but i am not afraid of it anymore, its more of a "well, there it is again" now.

And you will most definetely come to that point, too.
I can sense a strong desire in you to grow, you will survive this and you will grow! No doubt!

What your father did and said to you, was obviously very very painful.
i believe however, that its not only adult sjels pain, i strongly feel this broke open your protective shell due to the intensity of pain.
I would say it did trigger the young (and probably very young) sjels emotions.
When i view your father, how he did behave now, i can only imagine how much worse this must have been 20 years ago, and back then you were even much more vulnerable!

So i believe not only the pain youre facing but especially the wish to die is to a large degree the young sjels wish to die.
Almost all humans have this wish to die in them, theres only two categories, the ones that already experienced it and the ones that didnt yet!
That would mean, there is absolutely no way around it, at some point it has to arise :/
But maybe it is helpful to consider this.
Dont leave that little Sjel alone in there!

Probably its not possible to observe your thoughts right now, but since youre a passionate seeker and spiritual scientist, you could try to observe how with every thought you disconnect a little bit from the pain.
i guess thats why your thoughts are running wild, in the desperate attempt to ease that pain.
The problem is, the pain is too strong to be controlled anymore, so thoughts are completely going wild and it is like going mad.

You could use a mantra, that will focus your mind and stop the thought circles ( they are only worsening the situation) and there is something to "grip" and help you through.

I recommend "Om tare" for compassion with yourself

"Om tare tuttare ture svaha"

And/or the Babaji Mantra for clearer perception and connecting with the higher self:

"Om Kriya Babaji nama Aum"

Dont do the Babaji Mantra longer than an hour at the moment, it is very powerful and could otherwise make the pain stronger!

Another idea that was always helpful for me was breathing, breathing, breathing!
And, as smc said, ask your mother for help!!!

Dear Brother, i hope you make through this soon!
ou can count and rely on my and everybodys love and presence!

A brutal banishment,
A condemnation unfeeling,
Compels me to wander,
In dreadful isolation
Why?
Why must I leave behind all that once was mine?
Ahead lies only an eternity of vacuum
No life awaits here amongst the forlorn soils of the Malediction Fields.
A people lost,
A tribe without spirit tethered to a land that no longer remembers,
Trapped within valleys that scream without mercy,
Prayers to a long-dead gods go unheeded and unheard.

The ghostly cries of the abandoned carve ruin into the fabric of my senses.
Yet my back is turned,
My heart stone,
There will be no return for one such as I.



Labyrinth of soil, twisting, writhing, ever changing,
All life returns here, Death, decomposition rebirth.
Ancient barrows exhale and beckon with hands of stone,
I move towards the welcoming black,
Allow my being to merge with the earth.
And the soul wanders..

I also been in so dark places that there was no expressions anymore. There was just a paralysis. It was diagnosed as complex PTSD. And I think that most of us have been through traumas which would result in post traumatic stress syndrome.

Yesterday I had a minor relapse of it. And I had to sit with myself for a while, patiently, and just comfort myself like one would do with a child. And indeed the child that I've been during these experiences never was comforted and is still crying inside. It is still heart broken and alone. But yesterday it wasn't. And what happened after this is that I felt even more compassion, understanding, patience and humility for others than ever before.

You are not alone!! And I think that it's so great that you find strength to share your experiences with us here. It is a step that brings you closer to your heart and honesty with yourself so you can see more clearly how you really feel. And that's a true courting of a bride, in archetypical sense.

Lots of hugs and love to you

(03-22-2017, 02:13 AM)Aion Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah, you would likely benefit from some personal comfort from someone close, I agree, wishing you all the best, friend.

We need people in our lives.  Bring4th is fantastic and I love this place, but support, guidance and comfort from real life people is vital.  We can't do this alone.  Sjel, I pray for your healing, for all of our healing.  We can do this, together.

Accepting that understanding is not of this density truly is a liberating accomplishment. There comes a time when you just have to accept this or risk falling into this type of vortex of frustration. I've always felt that many here attempt to climb this spiritual ladder only to have it pulled out from underneath them.

I started out that way also. Trying my hardest to hear back from my higher self, attempting to climb the kundalini to get something back from anyone. I even thought I could channel at one point. After a while and a bit of frustration, I just realized that my purpose was none of it. Simply meditating to clear my ever racing mind and connecting with the faith that they who listened heard my thoughts and my appreciation.

Once that acceptance of the unknowing of this creation was seated deep within, a sense of calm understanding arose. This understanding and acceptance was that one isn't meant to know, well, anything that isn't pertinent to the mission at hand.

Hell? No, you're still a few molecules away from there.

I think the knowledge is attracted by desire, and not necessarily from any external consciousness other than the universe itself, as Ra stated in the case of the invention of the atom bomb.

Robert Svoboda's books (I highly, highly recommend) also mention that God has to come if the desire is strong enough, but it needs to be an absolutely insane desire; you have to be in a place of, "I'm gonna kill myself and dissolve my consciousness forever if God doesn't come", sort of desire.

I recently had an epiphany where I realized that, in one sense, the soul is our ability to comprehend and desire complex things. If you desire to go pick up a soda can, you automatically start to make it happen. And if you desire transcendence of limitation, the desire itself sends out an electromagnetic wave that makes your desire come a few iotas closer to reality. And anything is possible, because everything is connected. What you desire is control of catalyst through manipulation of light, occult sound waves (the kind that built the pyramids), and electromagnetism, and then transcence beyond these illusions. If you exist, everything you need is inside of you, but you have to find it.

I think the difficulties come when one realizes the limitations of the physical illusion as well as preincarnative decisions/karma/wyrd/sixth density self/whatever.

Now, it IS entirely possible to break out of one's wyrd... It's frowned upon by people who run our negatively polarized sphere, but just about anything frowned upon by them is generally worth doing, and this in particular is probably very difficult, but I've managed minor versions of it a few times.

The so-called disciplines of the personality are the key here. Your body is already interacting with prana, and your goal is to understand the shapes well enough to redirect and control the s*** in such a way as to manipulate prana and thus space and time, which is just training wheels for primal Chaos. And there are traps along the way, because this illusion sucks, and there comes a time where you have to figure things out yourself.

Either that, or access and use primal Chaos itself directly, which is everywhere and infinite and beyond the limitations of any illusion, even pranic geometries and chakras and the physical illusion and such, but this can be very dangerous, as well, because removing all limits while in even a slightly negative frame of mind, and/or without full knowledge of the series of distortions in which you find yourself, can launch you into Hell indeed - but doesn't have to, if you manage to energize the right distortions very purely.

Even in Hell, escape is possible.



"Underneath the shadows of the other side of time
If there is a Hell, then there must be a behind..."



Sure, they're a moralistic band, and the song didn't end happily, but he got out in the first place, and he can do it again... because even Hell has a time/space backstage, or whatever equivalent, and access to primal Chaos beyond that. "Even in the afterlife, things don't always go as planned..."

And in The Silmarillion's creation story, which is very laden with occult thought, it also mentions that there are things that even the highest beings outside of the One couldn't know or predict. Anything is truly possible, even if unlikely.

SSRF's web site mentions that in the lower layers of Hell, it's exceedingly difficult to do spiritual work because of the intense torment, but stops short of saying it's impossible. And people have escaped from Hell before. It's probably easier to do your time and try to get out with good behavior by listening to the jailers, but, "My friends, there is no truth in that which is finite, for every law is made to be broken, and indeed laws are usually after the fact so that you have already broken the laws, and that is why the laws were made.

There is something called faith which defeats all laws. It is not in law but in faith that you are able to concentrate upon the business at hand. The business at hand is your spiritual development. The business at hand is seeking. The business at hand is learning. There is not motivation to learn in the law—you simply follow directions. This is a cookbook life, the law; take a little of Law Number One, take two tablespoons of Law Number Two, mix carefully with a batch of Laws Six, Seven and Eight and you will learn?! No, my friends—you will conform."

(I often don't care for Quo, but that quote's fuckin' dope.)

Anyways, my point is... yes, you can do it. you already exist in all densities, even the knowledgeable ones. Is it easy? No. But the information is all just floating around, all consciousness is connected, and if you really desire transcendence more than you desire ANYTHING else, even eating and having a house and everything else that takes up energy, it'll have to come. You can't exist within a universe without every single law or bit of knowledge contained within it existing within your subconscious.

But how many people make it that far? Most get distracted by bread and circus tricks and scare tactics and lies and contrived limitations.

Good luck. Success is inevitable, if you want it enough.

Sending protective light, and hugs.

Do not attempt to activate the higher awareness without a bright and clean lower chakra set.

Go outside. Take off your shoes. Bury your feet into the earth. Whenever you are attempted to fly off into thoughts about ultimate truth just calmly return to the earth. Just focus on your breathing, the aliveness in your body, and the sensations in your feet. Right now you need grounding. Once you can be very pleasant and calm within your own body, then you may start focusing on your personal feelings. Eventually you might branch out and consider your thoughts/feelings into relation to other people. Keep this literal and non-speculative as possible. Whenever you feel imbalanced return to physical reality: texture, color, breath, the earth. I expect you will need to practice this discipline for some many months. Eventually you might again branch out into higher realms of awareness.

But for now stay with the earth. Shoes off, feet on the ground. Literally. This is medicine.

(03-22-2017, 11:40 AM)Mahakali Wrote: [ -> ]Hell? No, you're still a few molecules away from there.

I think the knowledge is attracted by desire, and not necessarily from any external consciousness other than the universe itself, as Ra stated in the case of the invention of the atom bomb.

Robert Svoboda's books (I highly, highly recommend) also mention that God has to come if the desire is strong enough, but it needs to be an absolutely insane desire; you have to be in a place of, "I'm gonna kill myself and dissolve my consciousness forever if God doesn't come", sort of desire.

I recently had an epiphany where I realized that, in one sense, the soul is our ability to comprehend and desire complex things. If you desire to go pick up a soda can, you automatically start to make it happen. And if you desire transcendence of limitation, the desire itself sends out an electromagnetic wave that makes your desire come a few iotas closer to reality. And anything is possible, because everything is connected. What you desire is control of catalyst through manipulation of light, occult sound waves (the kind that built the pyramids), and electromagnetism, and then transcence beyond these illusions. If you exist, everything you need is inside of you, but you have to find it.

I think the difficulties come when one realizes the limitations of the physical illusion as well as preincarnative decisions/karma/wyrd/sixth density self/whatever.

Now, it IS entirely possible to break out of one's wyrd... It's frowned upon by people who run our negatively polarized sphere, but just about anything frowned upon by them is generally worth doing, and this in particular is probably very difficult, but I've managed minor versions of it a few times.

The so-called disciplines of the personality are the key here. Your body is already interacting with prana, and your goal is to understand the shapes well enough to redirect and control the s*** in such a way as to manipulate prana and thus space and time, which is just training wheels for primal Chaos. And there are traps along the way, because this illusion sucks, and there comes a time where you have to figure things out yourself.

Either that, or access and use primal Chaos itself directly, which is everywhere and infinite and beyond the limitations of any illusion, even pranic geometries and chakras and the physical illusion and such, but this can be very dangerous, as well, because removing all limits while in even a slightly negative frame of mind, and/or without full knowledge of the series of distortions in which you find yourself, can launch you into Hell indeed - but doesn't have to, if you manage to energize the right distortions very purely.

Even in Hell, escape is possible.



"Underneath the shadows of the other side of time
If there is a Hell, then there must be a behind..."



Sure, they're a moralistic band, and the song didn't end happily, but he got out in the first place, and he can do it again... because even Hell has a time/space backstage, or whatever equivalent, and access to primal Chaos beyond that. "Even in the afterlife, things don't always go as planned..."

And in The Silmarillion's creation story, which is very laden with occult thought, it also mentions that there are things that even the highest beings outside of the One couldn't know or predict. Anything is truly possible, even if unlikely.

SSRF's web site mentions that in the lower layers of Hell, it's exceedingly difficult to do spiritual work because of the intense torment, but stops short of saying it's impossible. And people have escaped from Hell before. It's probably easier to do your time and try to get out with good behavior by listening to the jailers, but, "My friends, there is no truth in that which is finite, for every law is made to be broken, and indeed laws are usually after the fact so that you have already broken the laws, and that is why the laws were made.

There is something called faith which defeats all laws. It is not in law but in faith that you are able to concentrate upon the business at hand. The business at hand is your spiritual development. The business at hand is seeking. The business at hand is learning. There is not motivation to learn in the law—you simply follow directions. This is a cookbook life, the law; take a little of Law Number One, take two tablespoons of Law Number Two, mix carefully with a batch of Laws Six, Seven and Eight and you will learn?! No, my friends—you will conform."

(I often don't care for Quo, but that quote's fuckin' dope.)

Anyways, my point is... yes, you can do it. you already exist in all densities, even the knowledgeable ones. Is it easy? No. But the information is all just floating around, all consciousness is connected, and if you really desire transcendence more than you desire ANYTHING else, even eating and having a house and everything else that takes up energy, it'll have to come. You can't exist within a universe without every single law or bit of knowledge contained within it existing within your subconscious.

But how many people make it that far? Most get distracted by bread and circus tricks and scare tactics and lies and contrived limitations.

Good luck. Success is inevitable, if you want it enough.

I would mention on top of this that there is a special, relatively unknown class of entities who make it their work to scour these 'hellish' regions and offer aid to those who have trapped themselves there. Often their assistance is not recognized, but even in the deepest places of pain there are those who go to aid others, even at the cost of their own light if need be.

(03-22-2017, 01:48 PM)Aion Wrote: [ -> ]I would mention on top of this that there is a special, relatively unknown class of entities who make it their work to scour these 'hellish' regions and offer aid to those who have trapped themselves there. Often their assistance is not recognized, but even in the deepest places of pain there are those who go to aid others, even at the cost of their own light if need be.

I've recognized the work of what appear to be entities helping me, but, being someone who's had experience with the negative polarity since childhood, and just about nothing else spiritually, I'm too cynical to take such into my own calculations. So when I think of being trapped in a hell dimension, it makes me feel better to remind myself that I have the power inside of me, because I'm the only one I can trust even a tiny little bit (if still not much).

Even people like you make me paranoid because of your apparent let's-take-Mahakali's-heart-chakra-away-because-he-did-negative-things-at-some-time stance, and that's how it goes for me in general. I don't trust negative people because they're negative, and I don't trust positive people because they're usually violent towards negative people and engage in negative behaviors while rationalizing them as positive.

Anyways, the difference to me between a full-fledged hell dimension and a comfy astral prison with broken chakras are relatively minor. I'm already in Pluto's domain as much as I'll ever be. I crave spiritual development above anything else, and if I could throw everything else away and just develop myself spiritually, it's what I'd choose. Because even a nice life without empathy, without light, without empowerment, without mental strength and spiritual strength, is just not worth living. I've been through periods of homelessness and physical torture, and they're less preferable, but not much. Real pain is all spiritual, and I have it in abundance.

So even when a "positive" entity helps me out in one way, and then keeps me imprisoned in another sense, I can appreciate that they think they're being compassionate, but it's hard for me to look at them as anything but the enemy, anything but a more comfortable limiting, enslaving illusion to replace a less comfortable one. If there truly is no hope to escape enslavement, then I'd rather be dead than unable to spiritually develop, consciousness fully obliterated, but since I feel like limitation is illusory, and maybe I can do this against all odds, all on my own, even if Heaven and Hell are both against me... that actually inspires me a little bit.

Which is why I shared what I did. It's the most hopeful and positive I know how to be.

(03-22-2017, 02:42 PM)Mahakali Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-22-2017, 01:48 PM)Aion Wrote: [ -> ]I would mention on top of this that there is a special, relatively unknown class of entities who make it their work to scour these 'hellish' regions and offer aid to those who have trapped themselves there. Often their assistance is not recognized, but even in the deepest places of pain there are those who go to aid others, even at the cost of their own light if need be.

I've recognized the work of what appear to be entities helping me, but, being someone who's had experience with the negative polarity since childhood, and just about nothing else spiritually, I'm too cynical to take such into my own calculations. So when I think of being trapped in a hell dimension, it makes me feel better to remind myself that I have the power inside of me, because I'm the only one I can trust even a tiny little bit (if still not much).

Even people like you make me paranoid because of your apparent let's-take-Mahakali's-heart-chakra-away-because-he-did-negative-things-at-some-time stance, and that's how it goes for me in general. I don't trust negative people because they're negative, and I don't trust positive people because they're usually violent towards negative people and engage in negative behaviors while rationalizing them as positive.

Anyways, the difference to me between a full-fledged hell dimension and a comfy astral prison with broken chakras are relatively minor. I'm already in Pluto's domain as much as I'll ever be. I crave spiritual development above anything else, and if I could throw everything else away and just develop myself spiritually, it's what I'd choose. Because even a nice life without empathy, without light, without empowerment, without mental strength and spiritual strength, is just not worth living. I've been through periods of homelessness and physical torture, and they're less preferable, but not much. Real pain is all spiritual, and I have it in abundance.

So even when a "positive" entity helps me out in one way, and then keeps me imprisoned in another sense, I can appreciate that they think they're being compassionate, but it's hard for me to look at them as anything but the enemy, anything but a more comfortable limiting, enslaving illusion to replace a less comfortable one. If there truly is no hope to escape enslavement, then I'd rather be dead than unable to spiritually develop, consciousness fully obliterated, but since I feel like limitation is illusory, and maybe I can do this against all odds, all on my own, even if Heaven and Hell are both against me... that actually inspires me a little bit.

Which is why I shared what I did. It's the most hopeful and positive I know how to be.

Well that's perfectly fair. I'm not sure how you are under the impression that I think you have no heart chakra or in any way desire to 'take it away' but I accept that you maybe interpret me in this way. The truth is closer that I just see a lot of myself in you and in general I try to just 'let you be'. That I have experienced different parts of the One Truth I may sometimes venture to share but I assure you I'm under no illusion that you desire my assistance. What I posted was for him, not for you, but I understand where you're coming from. I appreciate your honesty, truly.

I actually think quite the opposite. I think the hellish nature of your reality has occurred precisely because you DO have a heart, and yet cleave to negative spaces which actually do not typically support that. I think you are doing a unique work and I am merely observing. However you proceed is your own choice but also knowing that I see no harm in responding to your thoughts with alternative methods for the sake of others who maybe don't share your same disposition as what you are sharing can absolutely be dangerous.

(03-22-2017, 02:52 PM)Aion Wrote: [ -> ]Well that's perfectly fair. I'm not sure how you are under the impression that I think you have no heart chakra or in any way desire to 'take it away' but I accept that you maybe interpret me in this way. The truth is closer that I just see a lot of myself in you and in general I try to just 'let you be'. That I have experienced different parts of the One Truth I may sometimes venture to share but I assure you I'm under no illusion that you desire my assistance. What I posted was for him, not for you, but I understand where you're coming from. I appreciate your honesty, truly.

I actually think quite the opposite. I think the hellish nature of your reality has occurred precisely because you DO have a heart, and yet cleave to negative spaces which actually do not typically support that. I think you are doing a unique work and I am merely observing. However you proceed is your own choice but also knowing that I see no harm in responding to your thoughts with alternative methods for the sake of others who maybe don't share your same disposition as what you are sharing can absolutely be dangerous.

>"Okay, I will try to help you with more of my ramblings, because I feel that despite your actions there is light in your heart. Maybe it will not be useful to you but then I can only give you what I have available."

I took this as a statement that you wished to snuff out the light in my heart just because I did some evil thing in some timeline or another when I was on a bunch of drugs and hanging around crazy people.

It seems to be a common sentiment among Kabbalists and Christian occultists to attack people's heart chakras when they don't like that person, the heart chakra being the center of the body's electromagnetic field and all. I've had some follow me around and try to actively ruin my heart just because they got some stupid idea or another about me in their little Judeo-Christian heads. Whoever is running this society and making these decisions would be wise to leave me out of them, because I don't fall neatly into their categories, and leaving me alone will result in me leaving them alone, while engaging me will only make me pounce on them like the rabid little puppy I am and go for the jugular with every ounce of strength I've got, even if and after by some miracle they succeed in destroying this body.

I guess Kabbalists often think in terms of frequency, shape, geometry, mathematics, music, pattern, and structure, while I prefer to see things in a more Chaotic fashion, with those other things mistrusted and regarded as secondary at best. I don't vibe well with the morphic fields that most Kabbalists entrench themselves in. I'm all Shiva and little-to-no Vishnu. Seems like most of them see my way of thinking as crazy or dangerous rather than authentic or Chaotic in a primal sense, and I see them as stuffy and overly-scholarly and focused on a very narrow avenue of thought.

It's more or less a root assumption of my psyche that anyone who hasn't proven otherwise is actively warring against me. I apologize if that isn't the case with you.

Puppies have hearts, too, and those hearts overflow with emotion when they see someone they love... and then they turn around and kill a rabbit in cold blood, with that heart still wide open. There's lot of a kindness in them, and more than a little bit of meanness, and a lot of naivete and lack of self-awareness in regards to their position in the world...

But people with hearts eat meat and kill unwanted insects. I've seen people with wonderful hearts hang cows up by their feet, slit their throat, and then drain the blood into a bucket.

I don't think there's anything "wrong" with those behaviors, or that those who perform them must be heartless, but I think that such behaviors aren't required anymore when you've made it to a certain level, and they'll naturally fall away when they're no longer required. I can understand the wisdom in not killing rabbits, but I also don't see the reason to moralize about it or beat yourself up or be offended more than is necessary.

I'm confused, and curious, though... What, in particular, do you think is dangerous about what I said?

To clarify, my advice is given from the standpoint of, that, even if everything is against you, and your only hope is the Creator Itself, you still have a fighting chance, no matter how terrible the situation otherwise. Even if a black mamba just bit the bloody stumps of your sawed off legs while you're starving to death in the middle of a forest fire in a marsh populated by hungry alligators during a zombie apocalypse and a nuke is being dropped on you from an airplane above, something can still be done on a higher level, and you can do it. It's last-resort advice, when nothing external gives you a chance, because that's where I feel like I am. I don't fear death, because I'm already living a fate worse than death, and I'm not afraid of pain, because even horrible pain is in the same order of magnitude. I have nothing to lose and am desperate.

Am I likely to find my way out of that situation? No. Possible? Yes. Have such things been accomplished before? Yes.

(03-22-2017, 04:25 PM)Mahakali Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-22-2017, 02:52 PM)Aion Wrote: [ -> ]Well that's perfectly fair. I'm not sure how you are under the impression that I think you have no heart chakra or in any way desire to 'take it away' but I accept that you maybe interpret me in this way. The truth is closer that I just see a lot of myself in you and in general I try to just 'let you be'. That I have experienced different parts of the One Truth I may sometimes venture to share but I assure you I'm under no illusion that you desire my assistance. What I posted was for him, not for you, but I understand where you're coming from. I appreciate your honesty, truly.

I actually think quite the opposite. I think the hellish nature of your reality has occurred precisely because you DO have a heart, and yet cleave to negative spaces which actually do not typically support that. I think you are doing a unique work and I am merely observing. However you proceed is your own choice but also knowing that I see no harm in responding to your thoughts with alternative methods for the sake of others who maybe don't share your same disposition as what you are sharing can absolutely be dangerous.

>"Okay, I will try to help you with more of my ramblings, because I feel that despite your actions there is light in your heart. Maybe it will not be useful to you but then I can only give you what I have available."

I took this as a statement that you wished to snuff out the light in my heart just because I did some evil thing in some timeline or another when I was on a bunch of drugs and hanging around crazy people.

It seems to be a common sentiment among Kabbalists and Christian occultists to attack people's heart chakras when they don't like that person, the heart chakra being the center of the body's electromagnetic field and all. I've had some follow me around and try to actively ruin my heart just because they got some stupid idea or another about me in their little Judeo-Christian heads. Whoever is running this society and making these decisions would be wise to leave me out of them, because I don't fall neatly into their categories, and leaving me alone will result in me leaving them alone, while engaging me will only make me pounce on them like the rabid little puppy I am and go for the jugular with every ounce of strength I've got, even if and after by some miracle they succeed in destroying this body.

I guess Kabbalists often think in terms of frequency, shape, geometry, mathematics, music, pattern, and structure, while I prefer to see things in a more Chaotic fashion, with those other things mistrusted and regarded as secondary at best. I don't vibe well with the morphic fields that most Kabbalists entrench themselves in. I'm all Shiva and little-to-no Vishnu. Seems like most of them see my way of thinking as crazy or dangerous rather than authentic or Chaotic in a primal sense, and I see them as stuffy and overly-scholarly and focused on a very narrow avenue of thought.

It's more or less a root assumption of my psyche that anyone who hasn't proven otherwise is actively warring against me. I apologize if that isn't the case with you.

Puppies have hearts, too, and those hearts overflow with emotion when they see someone they love... and then they turn around and kill a rabbit in cold blood, with that heart still wide open. There's lot of a kindness in them, and more than a little bit of meanness, and a lot of naivete and lack of self-awareness in regards to their position in the world...

But people with hearts eat meat and kill unwanted insects. I've seen people with wonderful hearts hang cows up by their feet, slit their throat, and then drain the blood into a bucket.

I don't think there's anything "wrong" with those behaviors, or that those who perform them must be heartless, but I think that such behaviors aren't required anymore when you've made it to a certain level, and they'll naturally fall away when they're no longer required. I can understand the wisdom in not killing rabbits, but I also don't see the reason to moralize about it or beat yourself up or be offended more than is necessary.

I'm confused, and curious, though... What, in particular, do you think is dangerous about what I said?

To clarify, my advice is given from the standpoint of, that, even if everything is against you, and your only hope is the Creator Itself, you still have a fighting chance, no matter how terrible the situation otherwise. Even if a black mamba just bit the bloody stumps of your sawed off legs while you're starving to death in the middle of a forest fire in a marsh populated by hungry alligators during a zombie apocalypse and a nuke is being dropped on you from an airplane above, something can still be done on a higher level, and you can do it. It's last-resort advice, when nothing external gives you a chance, because that's where I feel like I am. I don't fear death, because I'm already living a fate worse than death, and I'm not afraid of pain, because even horrible pain is in the same order of magnitude. I have nothing to lose and am desperate.

Am I likely to find my way out of that situation? No. Possible? Yes. Have such things been accomplished before? Yes.

My apologies, it seems my attempt to be indirect has been misleading. I was just trying to present myself from a position of not wishing to 'interfere' with you, and so maybe I didn't convey myself quite correctly. I would actually wish to do the exact opposite as you suggest, I want to empower, grow and strengthen the light in your heart! I would say that actually I am highly focused on the 'light in the darkness' in this life and I am someone who always believes that good can come even from the most violent of pasts. Even in regular 'RHP' this is true such as if you look at the story of Milarepa. He killed people using black magic and then later used this same black magic as part of his road to enlightenment. Not that I'm suggesting that is the path you are taking or that you're seeking some yogic enlightenment, I just like the story as an illustration that sometimes the brightest hearts can come from the darkest places.

To be honest, I see this in you and maybe is why I come across as attempting to 'influence' you. I don't want to change you or anything like that, but I see that flame there and the light that shines from it and I want to nurture it even if I don't always know the way, which perhaps leads to some miscommunication.

As for the danger of what you said, you yourself acknowledged the dangers of the path you described and the treachery of negative entities. I don't disagree that there is a certain necessity of personal strength if you wish to tread that path, however there are other options for individuals who might become caught there by mistake or by design. We could always debate the efficiency of one or the other but it wasn't my intention to refute what you were saying, merely to add another side of thought to it. To be sure, even asking for help takes an immense amount of personal effort, especially when bathed in fear of others.

Dear Sjel

You are alone, and in a place of suffering, where even your mind is a joker and you're the joke.

All of this, in your own mind.

Dear Sjel

Your screams can be heard farther than the physical universe itself.

Back in 2015, when my 'higher' being, my being the Creator in manifestation came to an end I looked in a mirror and saw no creator, saw no love, but a broken ugly machine that'd been dumped into the scrapyard of Earth to be reprocessed.

I was in hell, and I've never truly left...

I've some advice, Sjel.  Advice I learned while in Hell.

Don't listen to the joker.  Don't indulge the voices of your self in your head.  You cannot prove by any measure any of anything is real in regards to the spiritual.  You cannot prove anything is higher.
In fact to do so is itself a trap.  Higher energies, lower energies, both have a dark side.  You explore each as a Wanderer.

Your life designed to be this painful, just to learn some lessons.

Why doesn't the creation care about how it uses humans to teach their souls.  Is there no morality, no ethics?

Does the devil in all.of us get to walk up to us whenever it sees fit to hold us down?

Whats the answer when you realize God is as much a loving creator as it is a hateful devil?

Dear Sjel

If you kill yourself, take me with you, I'll take over your reincarnations so you don't need to come back if you don't want to...

When one makes the free will choice to leave, they should not be forced to come back.  I want you, as a being of infinity to be happy, if that means getting a break from catalyst, so be it.

But hear me out.  You're going through very deep pain, its unique and special for each of us, mine was fueled by isolation, loneliness, loss, and so much more.  You should not make any major choices right now.  You should sit with the p(l)ains of hell, for God was the creator of them for itself to experience and you are fulfilling that.

Don't just go, into that darkness lies only things that'd make me give up.  Don't go down that road Sjel.

You know we're random anonymous spiritual fools all here with you.  In fact, speaking from experience, some of us have gone through our own hell.

I thought I was literally, not figuratively in hell.  That people were demons in disguise, that animals were holograms, that everything that was ever good was a lie.  I thought the heavenly image Ra painted of creation was a fanciful facade.  The perfect Hell is one dressed like Heaven, you'd never understand that 'Heaven' is itself the cause for all of our suffering.  That's because it was actually Hell.  The worst kind of Hell.  The kind of Hell that you enjoy. The kind that makes you happy and feel fulfilled, and then you lose everything and only have left that which brought you here, your faith and spirituality, and you're told you weren't strong enough of faith.  That everything that's happened is on you, is your responsibility.  Is your fault.  Is cause of your thoughts and your actions, that no one else is responsible.

Sjel, as someone who's been where you are at now, I am demanding only one thing of you.

Do not believe this IS THEE hell.  It is not.  And you are safe.  And you are protected.

And you AREE loved.

Don't make any major decisions, just....Grab a glass of water, lay down, drink a bit of the water, and let, it, out.  Please, cry.  Don't hold it in.  Don't bottle it up.  We're here for you, what little relief we have to offer..  We'll lift you up out of that dark black pit you fell in to back to something true and real that isn't based off of forwarding evolution with suffering and 'catalyst'.

You're important, and no devil who comes as all you ever wanted is going to confuse or deter me from KEEPING YOU OUT OF THAT DARK PLACE. When it comes to helping another from misery.

I'm the only monster I need.

Sjel, look around your room, look slowly and closely.  Do you have a bed?  A place to store things? Clothes? Pillows and sheets? A good looking floor and walls and a fan or ceiling?  Do you know how much you've lost?  But what about how much you've gained?  How much you still have?

Its more than you might realize, its pleasantly more.  You have love, you have physical possessions, music, reading, maybe electronics even!  All of this belies your spiritual possessions.  You are here, you've done so much, cared so much, it helps in ways you cannot even hope to ever see until all is said and done as your reincarnation ends, hopefully a while longer from nowish.

You have so much more than just hell.  You have beautiful nature of Earth.  You have divine love you weep over from feeling the loss of it.  You have beautiful wants and needs.

Even when left unfulfilled, you are still doing the best you can.

And for that, no one can or should judge you.

Let us know you are still alive, so we can continue helping you to be so.

Well said C_A.

(03-22-2017, 06:44 PM)Coordinate_Apotheosis Wrote: [ -> ]Let us know you are still alive, so we can continue helping you to be so.

nothing-torture is worse than physical torture. torture of nothing, wasting away by sideways facing people, no one looks directly at you. if it continues to be nothing, i will go lay on the train tracks. it feels as if the universe does the minimum possible to keep me going, and as soon as i stop going, the universe gives me only just enough love to make me get up again, and then completely and utterly ignores me again. this is worse than death, worse than anything. this is like the torturer who feeds and waters his prisoner just enough so that he might continue his torture on a live prisoner.

even now i have that little glimmer of hope that comes after reaching the lowest relative point on your emotional sine wave graph. but i do not trust it. i do not trust hope, i must not be tricked by hope. i genuinely feel as if my guides are laughing at me. my friends in astral space laughing at me. they do not look at me except to laugh directly in my face, like a parent might laugh at a child throwing a tantrum. 'haha! so cute, he thinks he's in pain!'

when i think about my inner advice it is always vague and comes from the mouths of entities with no eyes and no intelligence, they move sideways so that they never come close to me. the advice comes from my little ego, where is the ego-less? why is my ego the biggest i can perceive, and then there is nothing, a blank void beyond that.

this is beginnning fourth density? this is hell, and i am supposedly 'seeking.' what of those who sleep altogether. all humans will awaken? how? how will i even awaken. the neighbor's dog barks in lonely frustration. i cannot help, you, dog, i am just like you.

Often times I feel that only this oblivion truly exists, and yet then doesn't. Everything is meaningless. So a tongue in cheek way: I can relate to a degree.

You're not alone.