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I was trying to figure out today how that would go.
How do you look at someone trying to do you or others harm and see the creator?
When you do see the creator in them how does that impact your actions.

Tonight my husband put on an old favourite movie 5th element.

I was amazed at the main character (played by Bruce Willis) seemed to be totally show casing what it looks like to see the creator in your attacker.

I've never seen that in a movie before. He wasn't cold when fighting off those trying to rob him, or kill him or his friends. He was totally not offended, nor did he show anger or judgement. The theif he kept his gun but complimented his hat. Totally not taking anything personally. It was pretty neat.

He didn't turn into a doormat and let himself be stopped on his mission but it seemed like a pretty good illustration of seeing the creator even in those who wish you harm. Ok short of killing them but it truely did seem necessary to save the universe so justified.

Just thought I'd share incase others are curious.
Makes me think of the movie Powder. From what I remember he didn't come back on those who teased him. He had the power of lightning. But was a gentle soul.
Man I've got to get that movie if it's on Amazon digital.
~
Interesting take on this movie, Glow -- I see where you're coming from.

A case in point: The following video shows (according to certain of my Pure & Fearless Leaders here in the U.S. of A.) the home-life of some typical members of the ruthless and vile-intentioned minionry of an Evil Empire hell-bent on attacking Old Glory, Mom, & Apple Pie in every diabolical way conceivable, 24/7/365. These people, when their little R&R period is over, collusively work with their psychopathic megalomaniac dictator to remote-control everyone and everything that isn't actually nailed down here across the pole in the paradisiacal Land of the Free -- from the Chief Executive all the way down to the local Visiting Nurses Associations and meter maids -- so as to get these poor defenseless souls (and their dogs, and the horses they rode in on, no doubt) to do the black-hearted Kremlin's barbarously evil bidding:



 

Reminds me of one of Kurt Vonnegut's favorite sayings: "I urge you to please notice when you are happy, and exclaim or murmur or think at some point, 'If this isn't nice, I don't know what is.'"  http://www.avclub.com/article/15-things-kurt-vonnegut-said-better-than-anyone-el-1858 
(As opposed to our STS grey-eminences' preferred philosophy: http://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=13198&pid=213601#pid213601 )






Abraham Lincoln, known for being lenient and forbearing even as Commander-in-Chief during the American Civil War, 
when counseled by bloodthirsty warhawks to step up the military's game to utter ruthless total-war savagery, so as
to utterly destroy The Enemy, answered:
"Do I not destroy the enemy when I make them my friends?"
http://blogs.babson.edu/graduate/2015/04/15/do-i-not-destroy-my-enemies-when-i-make-them-my-friends-abraham-lincoln-william-ury-at-babson-college/

Ancient post from yesteryear -- "RE: Analogy: STS as the royal, loyal opposition"
http://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=1382&pid=80648#pid80648

Not the least thoughtful comments by Alan Watts and Carl Jung on the usefulness of humbly accepting the full spectrum of human potential and actual behavior in self and others:





Edie knows what's what, if you know what I mean (do you?):





It's easy to be easy when you're easy with the worst-case scenario. Admittedly, some people have perhaps needed to undergo the hardest experience to understand the higher utility of being easy-going.





  Cool
One can see the creator in another, love them for their being, and still defend the self from their assault.

I'm sure specific instances exist where one is powerless to do anything but succumb to an assault, those instances it seems fair to see the killer or abuser as creator, and try to love through the fear and pain.

Then other more open instances where more choices and options are available, it seems that to protect the self isn't an infringement of the other attacking you, but rather an assertion of choice vs choice, creator vs creator, both lose and win no matter the circumstance because loss and winning isn't more than an illusion.

A good question to contemplate next to this one.

How does an attacker see their victim as creator?

That mosquito you killed, the ant you stepped on.  The animal you are eating.  The tea leaves you are drinking.  How does one find love of self and other as creator while assaulting another?

How does the attacker in self defense love that whom they are not only defending against but also attacking?
[Image: Alienentertainment.png]

http://map.norsecorp.com/#/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fusion_power

Quote:A three-year goal announced in 2009 to produce net energy from fusion by 2012 was missed; in September 2013, however, the facility announced a significant milestone from an August 2013 test that produced more energy from the fusion reaction than had been provided to the fuel pellet. This was reported as the first time this had been accomplished in fusion power research.

https://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kylm%C3%A4fuusio#Muut_kylm.C3.A4fuusion_tyypit

Working on it.
(04-04-2017, 11:21 AM)Coordinate_Apotheosis Wrote: [ -> ]That mosquito you killed, the ant you stepped on.  The animal you are eating.  The tea leaves you are drinking.  How does one find love of self and other as creator while assaulting another?

By making choices, one at a time, which reflect as closely as possible that whom you want to be.

(04-04-2017, 11:21 AM)Coordinate_Apotheosis Wrote: [ -> ]How does the attacker in self defense love that whom they are not only defending against but also attacking?

You don't have to attack when defending self. Many martial arts teach this. That's what self-defense is from certain disciplines—not fighting, avoiding harm to everyone, using the energy of attack to deflect harmful contact. So, already in place before ever there is an attack, is the intention of doing no harm, and if you are trained in self-defense, you have the confidence to carry it out. This is not to say you may never be harmed or harm others in an altercation. But you have done what you can to the best of your abilities to be "as closely as possible that whom you want to be."
(04-04-2017, 11:21 AM)Coordinate_Apotheosis Wrote: [ -> ]A good question to contemplate next to this one.

How does an attacker see their victim as creator?

That mosquito you killed, the ant you stepped on.  The animal you are eating.  The tea leaves you are drinking.  How does one find love of self and other as creator while assaulting another?

How does the attacker in self defense love that whom they are not only defending against but also attacking?

Assaults happen when one's love is distorted and hurt, so for the aggressor to find blissful love requires healing and setting the patterns of its perception straight.

Beyond that, you can seek to see the wonder of the dance of energy transfers as One and the mechanics of unified Karma. In this even the most evil of man is but a slave to others, fufilling the sorrowful role of its bestowed path that we all share through the identity of its experiences.

You find love both in forgiveness and in perceiving that you are each role and not any over another. There is no actual separation and all is One. The false perception of disharmony is an enabler for more complex experiences as they are desired to be known and this is so for all your examples. Contemplate the elements and how they teach one another, and see that beyond the complexity of our perception we are but the elements still teaching one another. I guess faith is important intially to move into the perception that there is no disharmony as each pattern of perception of disharmony will be brought to the surface to be distilled and resolved so that you may truly embody this notion. Faith offers a direction you initially lack in your confusion.
(04-04-2017, 11:58 AM)Diana Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-04-2017, 11:21 AM)Coordinate_Apotheosis Wrote: [ -> ]That mosquito you killed, the ant you stepped on.  The animal you are eating.  The tea leaves you are drinking.  How does one find love of self and other as creator while assaulting another?

By making choices, one at a time, which reflect as closely as possible that whom you want to be.



(04-04-2017, 11:21 AM)Coordinate_Apotheosis Wrote: [ -> ]How does the attacker in self defense love that whom they are not only defending against but also attacking?

You don't have to attack when defending self. Many martial arts teach this. That's what self-defense is from certain disciplines—not fighting, avoiding harm to everyone, using the energy of attack to deflect harmful contact. So, already in place before ever there is an attack, is the intention of doing no harm, and if you are trained in self-defense, you have the confidence to carry it out. This is not to say you may never be harmed or harm others in an altercation. But you have done what you can to the best of your abilities to be "as closely as possible that whom you want to be."

Blessed be those with the power to defend without ever actually launching an attack, sadly I don't think your average human being is learned in these methods of combat.  Rather, when I think of these scenarios, I imagine two people who have very little actual lethal combat experience.  Who will fight with fumbling thrown arms and inaccurate frenzied punches, clawing, biting, gripping.  I don't imagine someone pinning another down with a swift motion, I imagine it is much more gritty, much more involved, much more uncertain.

If I want to be alive, is it wrong to strike another to remain so?

I agree with you otherwise, but what about these less structured occurrences? The more 'common' ones, how do we go about these?
So are prison fights worse than street fights?
(04-04-2017, 05:13 PM)Coordinate_Apotheosis Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-04-2017, 11:58 AM)Diana Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-04-2017, 11:21 AM)Coordinate_Apotheosis Wrote: [ -> ]That mosquito you killed, the ant you stepped on.  The animal you are eating.  The tea leaves you are drinking.  How does one find love of self and other as creator while assaulting another?

By making choices, one at a time, which reflect as closely as possible that whom you want to be.




(04-04-2017, 11:21 AM)Coordinate_Apotheosis Wrote: [ -> ]How does the attacker in self defense love that whom they are not only defending against but also attacking?

You don't have to attack when defending self. Many martial arts teach this. That's what self-defense is from certain disciplines—not fighting, avoiding harm to everyone, using the energy of attack to deflect harmful contact. So, already in place before ever there is an attack, is the intention of doing no harm, and if you are trained in self-defense, you have the confidence to carry it out. This is not to say you may never be harmed or harm others in an altercation. But you have done what you can to the best of your abilities to be "as closely as possible that whom you want to be."

Blessed be those with the power to defend without ever actually launching an attack, sadly I don't think your average human being is learned in these methods of combat.  Rather, when I think of these scenarios, I imagine two people who have very little actual lethal combat experience.  Who will fight with fumbling thrown arms and inaccurate frenzied punches, clawing, biting, gripping.  I don't imagine someone pinning another down with a swift motion, I imagine it is much more gritty, much more involved, much more uncertain.

If I want to be alive, is it wrong to strike another to remain so?

I agree with you otherwise, but what about these less structured occurrences?  The more 'common' ones, how do we go about these?

I believe there is a balance of service-to-self actions required in order to continue to serve other selves.
Perhaps like Wisdom applied to Love.
One has to stay alive in order to continue to be of service to others.
I don't believe that letting an other self cease your incarnation to be a generally effective service to that other self.

Thank you folks so much for being great catalyst of thought
I think sometimes there's a struggle to view the self as also an other-self, but that's just like grouping yourself as most separate from all others. Well, you're kind of the center of your reality so there's an understandable and logical aspect to it. Goes along seeing others as yourself, because its really that too. What is all of them also is you, just as what is you is also all of them. Hurt yourself and you literally hurt the whole of infinity, because there's no portion of consciousness whatsoever that won't merge with what you have been at the moment you have hurt yourself and they will know what it was to have hurt themselves as you having hurt yourself. There's no separation, none. Kill someone in self defense and you literally get to know how it was like to be the one who has succeed at stopping you when you wanted to kill people. Did it feel heroic or remorseful? What's the contrast with how you were feeling at the moment you were the aggressor? Did you go worse because of dying that way? Did you forgive and became glad you were stopped?

Ah, the duality of the inner and outer self and its many multi-polarized plays. There's really just balance though, so you'll always be true to how you feel and that is literally gonna be the whole of it. And that is so on all planes of your infinite beingness my dear Creator.

tl;dr : I'd just ask the person's Higher Self what it wants but it will probably always tell to do what feels right. Unhelpful pal huh? Then I'd insist for an answer until I get told to consult my own Higher Self to do just that. Then I'd probably get told that if I am able to die without resentment, then that's probably the least painful wound I get in the scenario and that as the other-self I will have to heal having killed myself but that for the individualization I am, dying in full acceptance of it is not all that unhealthy at all. (scenario where one has to die and there doesn't seem to be any other outcome)
Anything worthwhile will have risk its intrinsic.