Bring4th

Is confusion only necessary until a certain point in the third density adept's seeking? (I assume that only an adept would be able to penetrate confusion if it is possible).

If it is possible to penetrate confusion even from within these earthly bodies, as I think Jesus and Buddha and countless saints did, then what about Ra's several quotations stating otherwise?

Quote:16.39 Questioner: I am assuming it is not necessary for an individual to understand the Law of One to go from third to fourth density. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. It is absolutely necessary that an entity consciously realize it does not understand in order for it to be harvestable. Understanding is not of this density.

If it is not possible to penetrate confusion within third density, does that mean that even Swami Sri Yukteswar and Babaji and Saint Paul were utterly confused? How could one be enlightened and perfectly secure, yet confused?

Right now I have a feeling of security in myself like never before, but more prominent than ever is this grey nebulous mass of static confusion located right in my brain. Everything below the heart feels warm and secure, my head feels top heavy and exposed to meaningless cosmic static. I am radiating more love than ever before in this lifetime, and am more confused than ever in this lifetime. "The more I learn, the less I know."

Are you confused, enlightened one? is what I would ask my guru.

My schizophrenia makes me especially confused when it acts up. It's actually schizoaffective, which also includes bipolar.

A lot of religious indoctrination has caused me to have religious experiences that can be very negative, that are very real to me.

Even God has turned against me in them.

(04-13-2017, 11:40 PM)sjel Wrote: [ -> ]"The more I learn, the less I know."

So very true. That has been my experience as well, the more I know the more I realize I simply don't know.

I think with enlightened masters who have developed contact with infinite intelligence they, the person, do not know any more than any other third density being, but the infinite intelligence moving through them does know, and is guiding them. The perception of the saint or guru is one of absolute faith/trust in this guiding intelligence. It motivates them to certain actions. They probably don't even know why they are doing those actions, they are simply living from a state of spontaneous creative impulse (which can even resemble insanity to some people). The purity of their faith is their bridge to infinite intelligence. They know what they need to know in the moment, and when that moment passes it washes away like a sand castle on the shore. Enlightenment results in a situation where the person is still there, but they kind of fade into the background. It is like the finger waking up to the fact that it is part of the whole hand -- another appendage, and when it feels guided to move, it moves. But it doesn't need to know the purpose of the movement, it simply trusts that the body as a whole has its best interests at heart since it is one with it. In fact, the information contained by the other portions of the body would just interfere with its functioning within its own native domain.

What if their confusion was part of the reason they got so far and they never actually were without it?

Jesus wasn't just a wanderer though. He has preincarnative agreements set in place that allowed him to penetrate the veil for the greater good.

Us normal wanderers and natives will never not be confused due to the veil. One may get portions of it as its not completely opaque but to see the creation as Jesus did is simply not an option.

Here is a good Q'uo explanation

http://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthrea...ight=Jesus

And yes, the more you learn the more you come to the understanding and acceptance that you know nothing Jon snow

(04-14-2017, 06:18 PM)Jeremy Wrote: [ -> ]Jesus wasn't just a wanderer though. He has preincarnative agreements set in place that allowed him to penetrate the veil for the greater good.

Us normal wanderers and natives will never not be confused due to the veil. One may get portions of it as its not completely opaque but to see the creation as Jesus did is simply not an option.

Here is a good Q'uo explanation

http://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthrea...ight=Jesus

And yes, the more you learn the more you come to the understanding and acceptance that you know nothing Jon snow

That is an awesome Q'uo reference.

I see that Jesus has his path / service, and we have our own.

(04-14-2017, 06:18 PM)Jeremy Wrote: [ -> ]Here is a good Q'uo explanation

http://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthrea...ight=Jesus

This is a great explanation, but I can't full accept it. It seems to be missing something. I believe the topic of Jesus is an overly sensitive one that higher density entities in all compassion and perhaps wisdom choose not to clarify.

I believe an entity known as Jesus may have existed and even the special circumstances that are mentioned seem quite possible. He may have been a special type of creation that was a perfect channel for the Logos.

However, what I'll call the "religious complex" of Christianity propounds Jesus somewhat inexplicably as an anthropomorphism or personification of the Sun or the Logos. This is abundantly clear, whether considering him as the Sun and the 12 signs of the zodiac as his apostles, being the light of the world, or dying and rising again.

So why or how did an entity teaching about the Logos turn into the entity actually being the Logos?

I think somehow many teachings from different viewpoints were gathered and put together into one teaching and this is what we know today as Christianity. There may have been a physical entity named Jesus, but I'm certain Christ is the cosmic principle, the Logos, the inner spiritual sun.

(04-14-2017, 08:53 PM)Henosis Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-14-2017, 06:18 PM)Jeremy Wrote: [ -> ]Here is a good Q'uo explanation

http://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthrea...ight=Jesus

This is a great explanation, but I can't full accept it. It seems to be missing something. I believe the topic of Jesus is an overly sensitive one that higher density entities in all compassion and perhaps wisdom choose not to clarify.

I believe an entity known as Jesus may have existed and even the special circumstances that are mentioned seem quite possible. He may have been a special type of creation that was a perfect channel for the Logos.

However, what I'll call the "religious complex" of Christianity propounds Jesus somewhat inexplicably as an anthropomorphism or personification of the Sun or the Logos. This is abundantly clear, whether considering him as the Sun and the 12 signs of the zodiac as his apostles, being the light of the world, or dying and rising again.

So why or how did an entity teaching about the Logos turn into the entity actually being the Logos?

I think somehow many teachings from different viewpoints were gathered and put together into one teaching and this is what we know today as Christianity. There may have been a physical entity named Jesus, but I'm certain Christ is the cosmic principle, the Logos, the inner spiritual sun.

Ok...  I very very rarely make any sort of "the channel was distorting the message" arguments because I consider them a much too cheap, easy, and unprovable way of disregarding messages.  However, in this specific case, I tend to suspect any channeling Carla did on the subject of Jesus\Christianity specifically, because she was very devoutly a follower of Christ.  And I don't say that's a bad thing in the abstract, certainly not.  Just that it almost certainly introduced distortions when the subject came up.  

There was even a 5D who occasionally popped up during Q'uo channeling sessions, calling himself Yadda, who was comprised mostly of formerly-Chinese entities.  He would get amusingly annoyed at Carla's fixation on Jesus and tried to encourage her to broaden her philosophical base. ("We so lonely for someone to say, 'Do you come in name of Zoroaster?' — he was a good guy, you know!")

He didn't show up much, but he certainly contributed some... interesting points of view when he did.

Anyways, getting back on-topic.

The other thing, though, is that I think it's extremely important to separate A)the messenger, B)the message, and C)the recipients of the message.  Those are all three separate things.  Even if - as I tend to believe is the case - Jesus-the-entity was partially unveiled and had knowledge of the other side most do not, he was still forced to try to render his messages in highly inexact language which is subject to interpretation.  In turn, those hearing the message would almost certainly not interpret it in the exact same way Jesus intended it.  All one has to do is look at the discrepancies between what Jesus taught and what St. Paul taught, to see this!  

In the 3D realm, ideas suffer from entropy due to the necessity to "encode" them in language and then "decode" them through listening.  There is a loss of data whenever information changes states in this fashion, just as there is loss of energy whenever physical matter changes states.  So in terms of Jesus coming to be seen as "the Sun" or being associated with the Zodiac and soforth, I tend to attribute that to distortion\corruption of Jesus and his message as viewed by his followers rather than anything inherent to Jesus-the-entity.

So at least personally, my own tendency whenever reading the words of any of the great prophets, messengers, and other wise people is to focus solely on their message - not later interpretations - and try to always remember that they were their own person, so to speak.

As far as "Christ" being a cosmic principle, I honestly think it's no different from people who find within themselves "the Buddha nature" or their "inner Goddess" or any number of variations on the idea.  What they are likely experiencing is a direct connection to the Source/Intelligent Infinity, but filtered through a specific concept of an entity, like light being shown through a lens.  If Christ is your own spiritual sun, and that brings you closer to the light of the Creator, then by all means embrace it.  

But perhaps understand that is, in part, you putting Christ-the-Entity into that role as your lens, focusing the light. And if you wanted, you could just as easily call upon many others like the Buddha, Gaia, Lao Zi, Mohammed, or -yes- even Zoroaster to serve in roughly the same role.

(04-13-2017, 11:40 PM)sjel Wrote: [ -> ]Are you confused, enlightened one? is what I would ask my guru.

If the answer was anything but "yes" I'd suggest finding a new guru.

I think the opposite of confusion is a centered emotional state and faith.

So what's the likelihood of being perfectly centered and full in faith?

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About not knowing. I don't think it means you need to die thinking you never knew a thing but instead that at some point of your life you will require to surrender to what is greater so that you may know.

Like I believe I know Intelligent Infinity is. But this faith initially sprang forth in a moment where I admitted to not knowing and had a sincere desire to know, which opened me to get to know. If I had been convinced there was a God or that there was not, without opening myself to the actual thing in order to truly know, then I wouldn't have gotten a powerful experience that initiated my spiritual path.

Edit : Initially my newfound experience was explained through the scope of christianity because it was lead toward by quierrying a christian friend about his faith. The experience did not say a thing about christianity but it was the color of my lenses for the experience and it all created a sense of knowing christianity was the right thing while the experience was not about that in any way in the moment it happened. Then knowing became a construct I had to release somewhen.

Sincerity is key and sincerity can be hindered by a sense of knowing. Then to me, faith is a newer and more advanced form of knowing than 3D mind constructs. It allows you to connect to your unconscious ressources.

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Another aspect is what is there truly to know? If you take the Ra material for granted, then the only actual "truth" are the first three distortions and any other thing are relative systems of thought forms where the hierarchy of distortions is more of ideas than truth.

Someone knowlagable within this Octave is like someone knowledgable about the Earth. It knows tons of places, the history and means of evolution, the figures, means to work and advance within that system, etc. But if you take that individual and place it in an entirely different system, then it does not truly know much anymore. Within this Octave they know all the right time/spaces for the seeking of others and can guide them, in another one they would themselves require to be guided.

I think as we move through the Octave, the lessons of the Creator are often more about deconstructing the Octave within oneself and the end game is much like the deepest contemplation of but the first three distortions to solve them within oneself and release fully the self that was born from them into the Source of them the self also always was.

---

Knowing allows to connect to your pre-conceived idea.

Faith allows you to connect to the actual thing.

(04-13-2017, 11:40 PM)sjel Wrote: [ -> ]Is confusion only necessary until a certain point in the third density adept's seeking? (I assume that only an adept would be able to penetrate confusion if it is possible).

If it is possible to penetrate confusion even from within these earthly bodies, as I think Jesus and Buddha and countless saints did, then what about Ra's several quotations stating otherwise?

Quote:16.39 Questioner: I am assuming it is not necessary for an individual to understand the Law of One to go from third to fourth density. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. It is absolutely necessary that an entity consciously realize it does not understand in order for it to be harvestable. Understanding is not of this density.

If it is not possible to penetrate confusion within third density, does that mean that even Swami Sri Yukteswar and Babaji and Saint Paul were utterly confused? How could one be enlightened and perfectly secure, yet confused?

Right now I have a feeling of security in myself like never before, but more prominent than ever is this grey nebulous mass of static confusion located right in my brain. Everything below the heart feels warm and secure, my head feels top heavy and exposed to meaningless cosmic static. I am radiating more love than ever before in this lifetime, and am more confused than ever in this lifetime. "The more I learn, the less I know."

Are you confused, enlightened one? is what I would ask my guru.

Could it be that many take daddy Ra's "understanding is not of this density" as something absolute? Something that as if you do understand any purpose of your incarnation or even get a glimpse of your pre-incarnational plan then you would not graduate? Or perhaps did daddy Ra mean with their "understanding is not of this density" that this incarnation is not clear and cut as incarnations are in 4th, 5th or 6th densities where there is no veil? That the "understanding" that they are talking about here is that you are behind the veil, the only density and place which is behind a veil? *But* when you have chosen your polarity, that is have made the great Choice, and have taken the steps beyond that, the whole universe is open and free for you then...?

Either way, when I think about how confusing the path of seeking may be sometimes, I always think about this piece about Jesus:

"Let us use as exemplar the one known as Jehoshua. This entity incarnated with the plan of martyrdom. There is no wisdom in this plan but rather understanding and compassion extended to its fullest perfection. The one known as Jehoshua would have been less than fully understanding of its course had it chosen to follow its will at any space/time during its teachings. Several times, as you call this measure, this entity had the possibility of moving towards the martyr’s place which was, for that martyr, Jerusalem. Yet in meditation this entity stated, time and again, “It is not yet the hour.” The entity could also have, when the hour came, walked another path. Its incarnation would then have been prolonged but the path for which it incarnated somewhat confused. Thusly, one may observe the greatest amount of understanding, of which this entity was indeed capable, taking place as the entity in meditation felt and knew that the hour had come for that to be fulfilled which was its incarnation."

Jesus *could* have chosen another path during his life-time than he did, but in that case that path would have been somewhat *confused*. And so with us all, I would guess. When we feel confused, lost or crawling in the darkness, it is because we have not found our pre-incarnationally planned purpose yet... That is my interpretation and understanding in this case.