I wonder if others struggle with something that has been a lifelong condition for me: frustration, anger, and exhaustion with those who seem to monopolize my attention. Lately I've come to see this as a perennial root (or low-level) cause of conflicts in my life. When people demand my attention at times I don't care to give it, it creates a great conflict within me, often leading to behaviors that are not my highest and best.
On the one hand, it seems trifling to deny a human contact, respect, and acknowledgement--it's such a small price to pay, and we all need it. And we all have times where we need it more and in greater quantities than at other times. In fact, I think attention is a kind of gift we give one another to mutually create and reinforce self consciousness within society. There is a sense in which we positively owe another our attention for the pure reason that they owe it to us, and that this is a basis of selfhood within the yellow ray experience. All of this to say that I think giving attention to another goes beyond mere "service" in the same way that refraining from punching people is not simply a service I perform.
On the other hand, when an inch is given and a mile is taken, I think I feel a sense of violation out of proportion to the actual situation. It creates deep anxiety to feel I am obligated to continue interacting with somebody with whom I feel no mutual energy exchange or with whom I simply have not chosen to serve open-heartedly. Whether or not it's nice or loving of me to reject the performance of a service at any given moment, I'm less interested in the "should" here and more interested in the nature of the blockage or tension.
I don't expect anybody to unblock me via the internet, heh, but I was wondering if others have had success in cracking this nut. Thank you!
(05-02-2017, 03:04 PM)jeremy6d Wrote: [ -> ]I wonder if others struggle with something that has been a lifelong condition for me: frustration, anger, and exhaustion with those who seem to monopolize my attention. Lately I've come to see this as a perennial root (or low-level) cause of conflicts in my life. When people demand my attention at times I don't care to give it, it creates a great conflict within me, often leading to behaviors that are not my highest and best.
On the one hand, it seems trifling to deny a human contact, respect, and acknowledgement--it's such a small price to pay, and we all need it. And we all have times where we need it more and in greater quantities than at other times. In fact, I think attention is a kind of gift we give one another to mutually create and reinforce self consciousness within society. There is a sense in which we positively owe another our attention for the pure reason that they owe it to us, and that this is a basis of selfhood within the yellow ray experience. All of this to say that I think giving attention to another goes beyond mere "service" in the same way that refraining from punching people is not simply a service I perform.
On the other hand, when an inch is given and a mile is taken, I think I feel a sense of violation out of proportion to the actual situation. It creates deep anxiety to feel I am obligated to continue interacting with somebody with whom I feel no mutual energy exchange or with whom I simply have not chosen to serve open-heartedly. Whether or not it's nice or loving of me to reject the performance of a service at any given moment, I'm less interested in the "should" here and more interested in the nature of the blockage or tension.
I don't expect anybody to unblock me via the internet, heh, but I was wondering if others have had success in cracking this nut. Thank you!
perhaps learning to communicate those feelings more freely with the other person when they are starting to impinge on your patience, clear upfront honest communication is always best. It is going to build up inside of you if you don't release it, and sometimes bringing it to the person directly that you have the issue with, will create a very big chance for healing, not just with them but with yourself.
After all they are projecting a side of yourself that you have not learned to love yet.
You may be doing a disservice to yourself lacking compassion for your self, trying to balance it out during the interaction on the other self?
whats done generally remains done, if you've been blocked the best thing to do is to move on and use the situation as a springboard lesson plan. i have been using the past couple of months to use similar situations to understand what constitutes healthy boundaries, and that is in part making sure to get on the same page, and learning to respect your own personal needs more, will lead you to communicating them and identifying those same traits in others.
if we were to seek to have someone who had blocked us to unblock us and mend a relationship, technically that would abridge their free will of the choice that other person made. pick up the pieces and find better friends by becoming a better friend to yourself. Good luck and i love you brother.
Can I ask just to clarify the situation.
Do you ever need their attention? If so do they ever refuse you?
I'm trying to understand if this is you not liking to feel you have to be there for someone who isn't there for you or if you just generally resent anyone expecting you would be there for them when they need you. Like you feel controlled by the expectation that you would provide care even if someone does for you. Both valid experiences but totally different "nut".
(05-02-2017, 03:04 PM)jeremy6d Wrote: [ -> ]I don't expect anybody to unblock me via the internet, heh, but I was wondering if others have had success in cracking this nut. Thank you!
The resolution to this problem from my perspective is simply this: when you give attention to someone else when you don't really want to, any attention that individual wrestles from you will never satisfy them. Giving attention when you don't want to is worse than no attention at all in the exact same way help given when you don't really want to help is usually worse than no help at all. People like that are energy vampires, and they are trying to maintain their alignment by taking away yours. And furthermore, it is enabling them to negativity, because it just rewards them for the energy leaching behavior rather than teaching them how to find their own connection.
If you cannot be considerate of your own node, then how do you expect to be considerate of others' nodes?
I know some do this, but if you're using others to run away from yourself then that is hardly positive.
I don't think there is a blockage on your part; I think it's more of a boundary issue. Being honest is loving.
The way I deal with this is to allot time to this service. I realize it sounds very segmented and mechanical, but unless you separate things, it's too messy and chaotic, and boundary-less.
Setting boundaries and making considered decisions on how much, or in what ways, to offer this service alleviates the frustration and sense of violation. You just have to stick to your decisions, or refine them when things get out of hand. Just going with the flow of others' demands or needs is not being openhearted—it's being victimized (though I don't mean that in a derogatory fashion). Being honest and forthright is a service in itself, and if you can do that you will not feel violated.
Thank you everybody for your input! It is extremely helpful.
(05-02-2017, 10:21 PM)Glow Wrote: [ -> ]Can I ask just to clarify the situation.
Do you ever need their attention? If so do they ever refuse you?
I think part of the issue is that we all have times when we need to externalize our life's drama in order to help process it. Sometimes it comes out more "processed" and concise; other times we are working it out as we speak it, and whether we know it or not we are asking for a great deal of patient witness. So I've always conceived of this tension as one of patience vs impatience, and I'm a bit shocked that nobody else here seems to see it that way! That's why I found all the responses so interesting; they genuinely clued me in to an aspect I had not considered.
(05-02-2017, 10:21 PM)Glow Wrote: [ -> ]I'm trying to understand if this is you not liking to feel you have to be there for someone who isn't there for you or if you just generally resent anyone expecting you would be there for them when they need you. Like you feel controlled by the expectation that you would provide care even if someone does for you. Both valid experiences but totally different "nut".
It's the drain of energy that it takes to listen to somebody in order to find out how to be there for them, when I think part of the lesson is that listening itself is a way to be there for them, without needing to deliver a fix that resolves the situation. Sometimes people want such understanding of their predicament and identification with their way of looking at it that they don't really want another perspective. In such scenarios, it feels like the interaction affords me no opportunity for service
other than to feel the negativity they feel. If I were more self-knowledgeable, of course I would not fear being swept up in their emotional situation. That's why I just assumed it was an issue with me; that were I in touch with the ultimate source of comfort more than I am, these charged situations would create no charged reaction in me. Does that make sense?
Thanks for your patience waiting for me to work this out via the written word, it must be only slightly more bearable than hearing me blab on, lol. All ironies acknowledged!
I have totally felt the same anxiety. I am a listener, and I've experienced that talkers love to speak their thoughts in the presence of a listener, and they 'generally' aren't open to other perspectives or solutions. Ive found that some people just want to use your open ears, and they use their own words to process their catalyst.
I think the fact that you are listening is good service to them, and I think that believing that you are being of service can alleviate the anxiety. It has for me.
Yes, Shayne, that is much closer to how I've been approaching this issue. I've been listening to
this talk by Pema Chördrön and she just said something that crystalizes it so completely: "to love and care for others, to be able to have
the bravery, actually, to feel the pain of other people, to overcome the fear of feeling pain that exists in this world". That is, I feel, at the root here. I get that people think I should be kinder to myself, but if I knew how to kindly extricate myself from these situations, I would do so already! But ultimately, as long as I fear the discomfort, I will not be able to be kind to either myself or another.
This isn't to say that boundaries are not good, but generally speaking I don't think anybody who knows me would describe me as not having boundaries. In fact, I feel these boundaries have been a crutch to prevent me from really feeling the pain of others and therefore benefiting from that aspect of the Creator and providing service. Pain comes and goes; there are no grounds for the decision to attempt to avoid it.
Being aware of when you're giving attention as a gift makes all of this easier to bear. I have a tendency to listen in the mode of "waiting to talk". Being present in the experience of listening, I've realized through reflecting on this conversation thread, actually is not at all the same sense of exploitation which I have felt in the past. But I do think the admonitions here to be gentle with myself is a really good point that I should continue to work with.
Distill what you feel, I noticed myself going irritated from listening to someone while I don't think it came from me. I was absorbing the energy and as such perhaps your feelings of anger don't stem from yourself but merely offer an opportunity that you may balance the energy by imposing a different perception upon it. Had this more often when listening to someone talk about someone else.
Another idea is that your anger has root in your greater unconscious awareness, you might be requested to be helpful to some with patterns which do not help themselves and which do not want to learn. I've seen this be the cause of frustrations occasionally because you do know the person doesn't want to be well or does not want to step out of its unwellness even if you were to give all the right keys. I'm not all that fond to constantly appease others' energies to balance their unwillingness to heal into something liveable. Appeasing the triggers doesn't necessarily help in healing either, I saw myself be called to let a person live a trigger because in the end the energy of the wound that was triggered remains and requires to be distilled. Sometimes what may seem like positive help just reinforces thoughts of separation and self-destructing dellusions which the other person seeks to find validation for through you. That becomes apparent when they say they want change yet reject any helpful thought about change.
I don't know if it is a useful thought, but if you see someone unwell there's probably always negative entities helping it to be entertained.
Quote:to love and care for others, to be able to have the bravery, actually, to feel the pain of other people, to overcome the fear of feeling pain that exists in this world
That's really good stuff, it occured to me this often relates to the strenght of one's presence and the displeasantness of it expanding beyond what it is used to.
Once that is done, it becomes much more natural and without resistance, transmuting the energy also becomes much like a second nature. More than just others, I have lot of past life deaths which are insanely more vibrant than my current emotional body so I find it hard to distill just these time/space aspects of just myself. I seem to have wrecked myself good quite a lot to fit in my role in each lifetime.
Repentance follows much speaking; but in silence is safety. Do not deride another, for it is dangerous: a bitter jest is the poison of friendship; and whosoever speaks of another’s failings with pleasure, shall hear his own with shame. Let the words of your mouth be the thoughts of your heart; so will you be far above the meanness of dissimulation. Do not mask your words in a semblance of truth, lest you become like the hypocrite whose business in life is only to deceive…. The pride of emptiness is an abomination, and to talk much is the foolishness of folly. Nevertheless, it is part of wisdom to bear with fools, to hear their absurdities with patience, and to pity their weaknesses. Do not become puffed-up, nor boast of superior understanding; for the cleverest human knowledge is but little better than blindness.
Dandamis
I am undergoing a similar test at the moment. My patience is being aggravated by a close family member to the extent that I sometimes respond with aggression. The most helpful advice I ever gathered was;
Tolerance
Forgiveness
Acceptance
When you realize in your entire essence that there is only one being, oneness, then you begin to view the other self as an aspect as opposed to something separate.
This is a difficult challenge that I can not claim to have mastered. It's essentially Ra's "Seeing the Creator in every moment".
When I observe society as a "tourist" I would say that the willingness to integrate the darker or less desirable aspects of self acts as a sort of self restricting mechanism. Many are simply not prepared to look into a void because of the fear of what the may find.
I have come in a way almost full circle. Now, in every interaction with the other self I am at least aware of who I am dealing with.
One of my life lessons is learning to say no (or saying no in the middle of an exchange due to what I call "mission creep"). I used to say yes out of a sense of obligation or conformity to societal/familial/cultural expectations (and I sometimes still do).
This is especially important for me because I am an introvert, and regain energy only in solitude. When I am rested and not feeling overwhelmed with catalyst, I say yes yes yes to the world (unless it's something I truly don't want), not out of obligation or conformity to expectations, but because I love saying yes in general.
It's still a work in progress for me. It's definitely an aspect of self-love, combined with root issues of not feeling like life lets me say no. There could also be an aspect of yellow ray when it comes to societal roles and expectations of my relationship with a given individual (family member, etc). When I end up saying yes for the wrong reasons, I get totally angry and frustrated as you describe.
The pattern I see in this is: those people are inconsiderate of themselves, they do not give themselves the attention that they need and then turn towards you to fill that need. In return that makes you be inconsiderate of yourself in order to answer this need. But you are wise enough to recognize that this doesn't feel good, that something feels off about it. Instead if you are considerate about yourself and give yourself the attention that you need, you can get free of this cycle and maybe, just maybe inspire them to look and listen at their need. But it's never garanteed. Some people would go to really extreme extent before they attempt to be kind to themselves. But you would at least bring a step into the right direction instead of letting them justify their cycle.
I struggle with this too, and with time find it's sadly best not to give everyone what they want all the time because sometimes, what they need and what they want is completely opposite, and you can feel it when they ask for something that doesn't seem quite in allignment with their wellbeing. We can't please everyone.
(05-04-2017, 11:15 AM)jeremy6d Wrote: [ -> ] (05-02-2017, 10:21 PM)Glow Wrote: [ -> ]Can I ask just to clarify the situation.
Do you ever need their attention? If so do they ever refuse you?
I think part of the issue is that we all have times when we need to externalize our life's drama in order to help process it. Sometimes it comes out more "processed" and concise; other times we are working it out as we speak it, and whether we know it or not we are asking for a great deal of patient witness. So I've always conceived of this tension as one of patience vs impatience, and I'm a bit shocked that nobody else here seems to see it that way! That's why I found all the responses so interesting; they genuinely clued me in to an aspect I had not considered.
(05-02-2017, 10:21 PM)Glow Wrote: [ -> ]I'm trying to understand if this is you not liking to feel you have to be there for someone who isn't there for you or if you just generally resent anyone expecting you would be there for them when they need you. Like you feel controlled by the expectation that you would provide care even if someone does for you. Both valid experiences but totally different "nut".
It's the drain of energy that it takes to listen to somebody in order to find out how to be there for them, when I think part of the lesson is that listening itself is a way to be there for them, without needing to deliver a fix that resolves the situation. Sometimes people want such understanding of their predicament and identification with their way of looking at it that they don't really want another perspective. In such scenarios, it feels like the interaction affords me no opportunity for service other than to feel the negativity they feel. If I were more self-knowledgeable, of course I would not fear being swept up in their emotional situation. That's why I just assumed it was an issue with me; that were I in touch with the ultimate source of comfort more than I am, these charged situations would create no charged reaction in me. Does that make sense?
Thanks for your patience waiting for me to work this out via the written word, it must be only slightly more bearable than hearing me blab on, lol. All ironies acknowledged!
I think is is very sweet you are facing this in yourself.
That is service to others, even doing that.
We all like to help elivate people's issues so I get the anxiety about trying to know what to do. I think you are right though just listening is the mosts urgent need of most people. Going there with them does help, huge service. I don't think it's vamipirism either as I give that to anyone who needs it, strangers even and sometimes I need it too. Not codependent but as a species we are meant to be interdependent and one need is to be known/understood/...intimacy.... it's my favourite.
I do not consider those who call me or need an ear vampires. If they need love that's pretty much the only thing I'm good at. Not everyone is up for that, like you said if you get swept up in their pain then you will need saving.
I've learned not to take their pain with me, go there in the moment but let it go after... except one persons I identify with to fully. He can screw me up for weeks but I still can't not be there with him. I'm learning little by little to release his stuff after talking too but it's harder. Everyone else I have learned to go deep with them but release it after.
Have you learned to shield at all yet. A spiritual hypnotist taught me the best one, he said I was too open like a screen door and keeping everyone's stuff.
Very easy no magic, picture tipping a clear drinking glass over yourself like a dome. If it's still to much tip one over them too. Most times I don't use that but if I'm already maxed out it makes me still be able to offer something. I can't feel them as deeply because my own energy surrounds me but this way if it's all I can manage that day at least I didn't make them feel worse.
Sometimes I'm ok when listening but later at night I will start feeling their stuff again and it will take hold, I'm sure it's some energetic connection. I just visualize tipping that glass over myself and I promise it eases that distress.
I have met a few super high emotion would suck every minute dry with their angst kind of people and those ones are tougher. A few of them I've offered to meditate with them I don't know if you are dealing with people like that but I haven't found the sure solution to these ones. I'd still not say they are vampires they are just people with no coping skill and perhaps complete lack of mutual support from others..
As to listening to you "blab on" it's kind of what I live for.
I love getting to know people and the inner workings of their heart and mind.
Thank you for that gift. Feel free to blab.