Bring4th

There are some flaws or inconsistencies in the Ra material, often minor, but one of those that bothered me the most while I was reading the books, was when Ra said third density life began on Earth 75,000 years ago.

The problem is that this contradicts what what was determined by generations of paleontologists, using radiocarbon dating and other well proven techniques to establish that modern human, called Homo sapiens, is at least 200,000 years old. And for a long time, most specialists having studied the DNA divergences of various hominoids fossils believed modern human may have appeared much more earlier, some even hypothesizing an origin around 500,000 years ago.

Today, these paleontologists have been been proven correct, because they were recent Homo sapiens fossil discoveries in Morocco which are around 300,000 years old. And we are clearly dealing here with modern human, anatomically identical to today human, and with an ability to make tools, so clearly bearing all signs of third density consciousness. This is already in Wikipedia:

Quote:In June 2017, Jean-Jacques Hublin and other scientists from the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology reported in Nature that fossils of five humans found at a site in Jebel Irhoud, Morocco, were between 300,000 and 350,000 years old when dated by hi-tech methods. The skulls are almost identical to those of modern humans. Tools found at this site together with those found at other sites throughout Africa indicate that Homo sapiens may have evolved across the whole continent. Hublin commented: "It is not the story of it happening in a rapid way in a 'Garden of Eden' somewhere in Africa. Our view is that it was a more gradual development and it involved the whole continent."

The article on the Nature website: http://www.nature.com/news/oldest-homo-s...ry-1.22114

Also, the currently earliest human burial sites, found in today Israel, are between 80,000 and 120,000 years old (ok, that's not very precise), and the earliest artistic representations (paintings on rocks in Africa) are from around 100,000 years ago.

I know Ra had a lot of difficulties with our "numbering system" as he called it, but the 75,000 years claim for the beginning of third density cycle on Earth is relatively frequent in the material, so if it was a mistake, it would have been corrected at some point.

So, there is clearly a problem there. Might be a good idea to ask Q'uo about this.

(06-08-2017, 04:38 AM)Balyak Wrote: [ -> ]There are some flaws or inconsistencies in the Ra material, often minor, but one of those that bothered me the most while I was reading the books, was when Ra said third density life began on Earth 75,000 years ago.

The problem is that this contradicts what what was determined by generations of paleontologists, using radiocarbon dating and other well proven techniques to establish that modern human, called Homo sapiens, is at least 200,000 years old. And for a long time, most specialists having studied the DNA divergences of various hominoids fossils believed modern human may have appeared much more earlier, some even hypothesizing an origin around 500,000 years ago.

Today, these paleontologists have been been proven correct, because they were recent Homo sapiens fossil discoveries in Morocco which are around 300,000 years old. And we are clearly dealing here with modern human, anatomically identical to today human, and with an ability to make tools, so clearly bearing all signs of third density consciousness. This is already in Wikipedia:

Quote:In June 2017, Jean-Jacques Hublin and other scientists from the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology reported in Nature that fossils of five humans found at a site in Jebel Irhoud, Morocco, were between 300,000 and 350,000 years old when dated by hi-tech methods. The skulls are almost identical to those of modern humans. Tools found at this site together with those found at other sites throughout Africa indicate that Homo sapiens may have evolved across the whole continent. Hublin commented: "It is not the story of it happening in a rapid way in a 'Garden of Eden' somewhere in Africa. Our view is that it was a more gradual development and it involved the whole continent."

The article on the Nature website: http://www.nature.com/news/oldest-homo-s...ry-1.22114

Also, the currently earliest human burial sites, found in today Israel, are between 80,000 and 120,000 years old (ok, that's not very precise), and the earliest artistic representations (paintings on rocks in Africa) are from around 100,000 years ago.

I know Ra had a lot of difficulties with our "numbering system" as he called it, but the 75,000 years claim for the beginning of third density cycle on Earth is relatively frequent in the material, so if it was a mistake, it would have been corrected at some point.

So, there is clearly a problem there. Might be a good idea to ask Q'uo about this.

You misconceive what Ra said. This root of humanity present now, started 75000 years ago. Who's to say how anything really happens. Maybe cycle after cycle of humanity gets played out right here.

I take it as "the game" being played is on a cycle of 75000 years. It says nothing to how old, or when men were created.

These are probably 2D bodies of Maldek entities transferred to Earth 500.000 years ago.

(06-08-2017, 07:47 AM)Infinite Unity Wrote: [ -> ]You misconceive what Ra said. This root of humanity present now, started 75000 years ago. Who's to say how anything really happens. Maybe cycle after cycle of humanity gets played out right here.

I take it as "the game" being played is on a cycle of 75000 years. It says nothing to how old, or when men were created.

When Ra talked about cycles, those were cycles of 25,000 years inside the global 75,000 years 3D cycle. The problem, in my point of view, resides in the fact that archaeological evidence of third density life existed way before 75,000 years ago.

(06-08-2017, 07:53 AM)Infinite Wrote: [ -> ]These are probably 2D bodies of Maldek entities transferred to Earth 500.000 years ago.

Yes that could be, considering this:

Quote:10.3 Questioner: And have any of the Maldek entities transformed now? Are they now still second-density or are they forming some third-density planet now?

Ra: The consciousness of these entities has always been third-density. The alleviation mechanism was designed by the placement of this consciousness in second-dimensional physical chemical complexes which are not able to be dexterous or manipulative to the extent which is appropriate to the workings of the third-density distortions of the mind complex.

So Maldek entities kept a 3D consciousness in 2D bodies. With, probably, the ability to make rudimentary tools, I'm ok on that point. But what about graves and art, then, typical of 3D life?

(06-08-2017, 08:09 AM)Balyak Wrote: [ -> ]But what about graves and art, then, typical of 3D life?

What are you talking about?

(06-08-2017, 07:47 AM)Infinite Unity Wrote: [ -> ]What are you talking about?

The oldest discovered burial sites are dated around 130,000 years ago, made by Neanderthals in a site in modern Croatia. The earliest discovered Homo sapiens graves are dated between 80,000 to 120,000 years ago, in a location in modern Israel. No 2D entity would bury his dead, that is clearly the mark of 3D consciousness and spiritual behavior. Same for art, with earliest evidence of aesthetic expression around 100,000 years ago.

So in both cases, earlier than the supposed switch to 3D on Earth, 75,000 years ago, according to Ra.

(06-08-2017, 08:09 AM)Balyak Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-08-2017, 07:47 AM)Infinite Unity Wrote: [ -> ]You misconceive what Ra said. This root of humanity present now, started 75000 years ago. Who's to say how anything really happens. Maybe cycle after cycle of humanity gets played out right here.

I take it as "the game" being played is on a cycle of 75000 years. It says nothing to how old, or when men were created.

When Ra talked about cycles, those were cycles of 25,000 years inside the global 75,000 years 3D cycle. The problem, in my point of view, resides in the fact that archaeological evidence of third density life existed way before 75,000 years ago.

(06-08-2017, 07:53 AM)Infinite Wrote: [ -> ]These are probably 2D bodies of Maldek entities transferred to Earth 500.000 years ago.

Yes that could be, considering this:

Quote:10.3 Questioner: And have any of the Maldek entities transformed now? Are they now still second-density or are they forming some third-density planet now?

Ra: The consciousness of these entities has always been third-density. The alleviation mechanism was designed by the placement of this consciousness in second-dimensional physical chemical complexes which are not able to be dexterous or manipulative to the extent which is appropriate to the workings of the third-density distortions of the mind complex.

So Maldek entities kept a 3D consciousness in 2D bodies. With, probably, the ability to make rudimentary tools, I'm ok on that point. But what about graves and art, then, typical of 3D life?

Right and what I am saying is men probably were here before, and the evidence you find, is from much older cycles. I am also not specifically saying this is what it is. I am only saying the universe is wild, and anything is possible.

(06-08-2017, 10:22 AM)Balyak Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-08-2017, 07:47 AM)Infinite Unity Wrote: [ -> ]What are you talking about?

The oldest discovered burial sites are dated around 130,000 years ago, made by Neanderthals in a site in modern Croatia. The earliest discovered Homo sapiens graves are dated between 80,000 to 120,000 years ago, in a location in modern Israel. No 2D entity would bury his dead, that is clearly the mark of 3D consciousness and spiritual behavior. Same for art, with earliest evidence of aesthetic expression around 100,000 years ago.

So in both cases, earlier than the supposed switch to 3D on Earth, 75,000 years ago, according to Ra.

Also carbon dating, and all forms of current ways of dating artifacts is very over estimated, when it comes to accuracy. It shouldn't be beyond thought, that these dates have also been tampered with.

I also put transient material like this on not so much importance. Can you feel the love in your heart? Look into another's eyes, and tell me you don't want the best for them. How are your daily emotions, and how do you feel towards your fellow man? To me these speak far more towards were I am trying to "move".

(06-08-2017, 07:47 AM)Infinite Unity Wrote: [ -> ]Also carbon dating, and all forms of current ways of dating artifacts is very over estimated, when it comes to accuracy. It shouldn't be beyond thought, that these dates have also been tampered with.

I also put transient material like this on not so much importance. Can you feel the love in your heart? Look into another's eyes, and tell me you don't want the best for them. How are your daily emotions, and how do you feel towards your fellow man?  To me these speak far more towards were I am trying to "move".

Regarding radiocarbon dating, it is pretty accurate. Of course, as always when measuring, there is an error range, which grows bigger as you move back in time, so the given dates are an average. But even when considering an error range of several thousands of years, we are below 75,000 years. Other high tech modern techniques are now well established as well. Usually, several techniques are used to be more accurate, as was the case for the recent discoveries in Morocco.

Yes this is transient material, I agree, but I've always been very interested in history and archaeology. So I simply wonder how, considering anatomically modern human existed since at least 300,000 years back in time, it was not before several hundreds of thousands of years later that he would have acquired a 3D consciousness. For me, that does not make a lot of sense, actually.

You arose my curiosity and this is what I found:

Quote:19.3 (link) Questioner: When this transition from second to third density takes place, how does the entity, whether it be animal, tree, or mineral, become enspirited?
Ra: I am Ra. Entities do not become enspirited. They become aware of the intelligent energy within each portion, cell, or atom, as you may call it, of its beingness.

This awareness is that which is awareness of that already given. From the infinite come all densities. The self-awareness comes from within given the catalyst of certain experiences understanding, as we may call this particular energy, the upward spiraling of the cell or atom or consciousness.

You may then see that there is an inevitable pull towards the, what you may call, eventual realization of self.

19.4 Questioner: Then after the transition into the third density, am I correct in assuming that these entities would then be in (...) in human form? Is this correct?
Ra: I am Ra. This is correct, taking your planetary sphere as an example.

19.5 Questioner: When the first second-density entities became third on this planet, was this with the help of the transfer of beings from Mars, or were there second-density entities that evolved into third density with no outside influence?
Ra: I am Ra. There were some second-density entities which made the graduation into third density with no outside stimulus but only the efficient use of experience.

(...)

19.9 Questioner: Where did the second-density beings get physical vehicles of third-density type to incarnate into?
Ra: I am Ra. There were among those upon this second-density plane those forms which when exposed to third-density vibrations became the third-density, as you would call sound vibration “human,” entities.

(...)

19.11
Ra: There is one necessity for third density. That necessity is self-awareness, or self-consciousness. In order to be capable of such, this chemical complex of body must be capable of the abstract thought. (...) The third-density mind was capable of processing information in such a way as to think abstractly and in what could be termed “useless” ways, in the sense of survival. This is the primary requisite.

(...)

19.15 (link)
Ra: (...) The second-density concept of serving self includes the serving of those associated with tribe or pack. This is not seen in second density as separation of self and other-self. All is seen as self since in some forms of second-density entities, if the tribe or pack becomes weakened, so does the entity within the tribe or pack.

The new or initial third-density entity has this innocent, shall we say, bias or distortion towards viewing those in the family, the society, as you would call, perhaps, country, as self.

(...)

20.19 (link)
Ra: You must remember that those transferred to this sphere were in the middle of their third density so that this third density was an adaptation rather than a beginning.

(...)

82.15 (link)
Ra: I am Ra. The purpose of incarnation in third density is to learn the ways of love. (...) The nature of third density is constant. Its ways are to be learned the same now and ever.

This may indicate:

• there could have been no significant body changes while the transition to 3D was occurring;
  
• earlier hominids (including Homo sapiens) may have existed on Earth in 2D;
  
• only when the necessary experiences were efficiently used (exposure to 3D vibrations and abstract thoughts formed in general), the transition and adaptation occurred.
  

The fact that 2D entities had characteristics of 3D entities may also have been possible. Today there are those that share 3D and 4D characteristics:

Quote:63.13 (link) Ra: I am Ra. These entities are those incarnating with what you may call a double body in activation. (...)

This transitional body is one which will be, shall we say, able to appreciate fourth-density vibratory complexes as the instreaming increases without the accompanying disruption of the third-density body. If a third-density entity were, shall we say, electrically aware of fourth-density in full, the third-density electrical fields would fail due to incompatibility.

To answer your query about death, these entities will die according to third-density necessities.

And since 2D was much longer (4.6 billion years) compared to 3D, perhaps the transition period could have also been widened, thus allowing similar 2D-3D "double bodies" for a longer period of time.

There are also other possibilities that I considered:

1. Yahweh's intervention in the cloning process (working with the martians) potentiated the transition to 3D only at that time (75,000 y.a.). Ra also mentions that "there are differences" but further information could not be told due to the Law of Confusion.
   
2. This may be the least likely one in my perspective, but if Ra skipped an "oh" in here, it could have meant 750,000. Therefore when Ra later mentioned "seventy-five thousand" (link) this expression could have been provided to Ra when Don's mind interpreted "seven five oh oh oh"... The only direct mention by Ra of the beginning of 3D is "this is correct" (19.8), i.e. if Don visualized the number he spoke in the question as Ra had given him in the previous session, the same error could have been kept... (I repeat, very unlikely)
   

You have very good points here, thanks a lot Beriem. I think the missing "oh" error is very unlikely, as the number 75,000 is too much frequent in the material, and there are some cases where Ra corrects itself later. But I agree that considering that 2D was much longer, 2D-3D double bodies may have existed for a very long period.

What would corroborate the beginning of 3D consciousness 75,000 years ago, is that archaeological evidence in this period is a way more important, especially in the second 25,000 years cycle, starting 50,000 years ago:

Quote:The oldest undisputed works of figurative art were found in the Schwäbische Alb, Baden-Württemberg, Germany. The earliest of these, the Venus figurine known as the Venus of Hohle Fels and the Lion-man figurine date to some 40,000 years ago.

Quote:Religious behaviour is one of the hallmarks of behavioral modernity, generally assumed to have emerged around 50,000 years ago, marking the transition from the middle to the Upper Paleolithic. It was probably more common during the early Upper Paleolithic for religious ceremonies to receive equal and full participation from all members of the band in contrast to the religious traditions of later periods when religious authorities and part-time ritual specialists such as shamans, priests and medicine men were relatively common and integral to religious life.

The 75,000 year mark for Earth specifically is when Yahweh came and transferred Mars souls to our planet and genetically altered the ape form so it would be more conducive to learning in the middle of a cycle - as Mars had their cycle interrupted.

Ra says the 75,000 year cycle is the same for all third density experiences. The things you are speaking of - art, early tools - these were likely made by very late second density beings (Or, as someone else mentioned, Maldek souls in their karmic limitation of body complex dexterity). Ra says that without the genetic changes that were caused by Yahweh, "human beings" (third density bodies) wouldn't look too different from their second density counterparts.

Quote:14.3 Questioner: Then what was the second-density form— what did it look like— that became Earth-man in the third density? What did he look like in the second density?

Ra: I am Ra. The difference between second- and third-density bodily forms would in many cases have been more like one to the other. In the case of your planetary sphere the process was interrupted by those who incarnated here from the planetary sphere you call Mars. They were adjusted by genetic changing and, therefore, there was some difference which was of a very noticeable variety rather than the gradual raising of the bipedal forms upon your second-density level to third-density level. This has nothing to do with the so-called placement of the soul. This has only to do with the circumstances of the influx of those from that culture.

Carbon dating etc is pretty fallible, so as far as wanting archeology to specifically correlate with Ra's timeline, there isn't much hope. I mean, humans believe the Moai statues were created within the past 1,000 years - Ra says they were placed by Orion 25,000 years ago - so is it inconsistencies with Ra, or human error? Are these parts of the material really that important to *prove*, to get meaning from the philosophy?

Do you think you could attribute a race like Caucasians, as the specific entities transferred?

Possibly, but I wouldn't want to attempt to do so. Ra says that those of Deneb were Lemurian and then settled in the Americas and China. So I don't know if it's that simple.

If anything, I would think that the Mars entities would have possibly specifically become the Jewish race (Yahweh, Hebrew, chosen people, Moishe, etc)

(06-09-2017, 09:14 AM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote: [ -> ]The 75,000 year mark for Earth specifically is when Yahweh came and transferred Mars souls to our planet and genetically altered the ape form so it would be more conducive to learning in the middle of a cycle - as Mars had their cycle interrupted.

Ra says the 75,000 year cycle is the same for all third density experiences. The things you are speaking of - art, early tools - these were likely made by very late second density beings (Or, as someone else mentioned, Maldek souls in their karmic limitation of body complex dexterity). Ra says that without the genetic changes that were caused by Yahweh, "human beings" (third density bodies) wouldn't look too different from their second density counterparts.

Quote:14.3 Questioner: Then what was the second-density form— what did it look like— that became Earth-man in the third density? What did he look like in the second density?

Ra: I am Ra. The difference between second- and third-density bodily forms would in many cases have been more like one to the other. In the case of your planetary sphere the process was interrupted by those who incarnated here from the planetary sphere you call Mars. They were adjusted by genetic changing and, therefore, there was some difference which was of a very noticeable variety rather than the gradual raising of the bipedal forms upon your second-density level to third-density level. This has nothing to do with the so-called placement of the soul. This has only to do with the circumstances of the influx of those from that culture.

Carbon dating etc is pretty fallible, so as far as wanting archeology to specifically correlate with Ra's timeline, there isn't much hope. I mean, humans believe the Moai statues were created within the past 1,000 years - Ra says they were placed by Orion 25,000 years ago - so is it inconsistencies with Ra, or human error? Are these parts of the material really that important to *prove*, to get meaning from the philosophy?

Ra said that the ape form was modified for Maldek beings, roughly 500,000 years ago. But when 3D began, 75,000 years ago, modern human was already there. The genetic changes by Yahweh, at that time, were made for the arrival of Mars beings. I agree art and burial sites may have been made by late 2D entities, as Beriem also said.

For radiocarbon dating, it is not commonly used beyond samples older than 50,000 ago, because carbon-14 is often insufficient. Other modern techniques are used instead, and are well established. For the moai, they can't be dated using this technique because they are made of stone. So the chronological dating of their carvings are pure speculation. Robert Schoch suggests they are much older than what is commonly admitted:

Robert Schoch Wrote:Studying the moai with a geological eye, Schoch was particularly impressed by the varying degrees of weathering and erosion seen on different moai, which could be telltale signs of major discrepancies in their ages. The levels of sedimentation around certain moai also impressed him. Some moai have been buried in up to an estimated six meters (20 feet) of sediment, or more, such that even though they are standing erect, only their chins and heads are above the current ground level. Such high levels of sedimentation could occur quickly, for instance, if there were catastrophic landslides or mudflows, but Schoch could not find any such evidence (and landslides would tend to shift and knock over the tall statues). Rather, to his eye, the sedimentation around certain moai suggests a much more extreme antiquity than most conventional archaeologists and historians believe to be the case.

[...]

Sea levels have risen dramatically since the end of the last ice age, some ten thousand or more years ago, and if the basalt moai were quarried along the coast of Easter Island from areas since inundated by the sea, this could help to date the basalt moai, and is immediately suggestive that they are thousands of years older than conventionally believed to be the case.

The whole and very interesting paper can be read there: http://www.robertschoch.com/articles/sch...oposal.pdf

For those who don't know him, Schoch is a scientist having a PhD in geology and geophysics, who is best known for his alternative yet very rational theories about the Sphinx and the pyramids.

I think it's due to there being 2nd density apes here for a long long time but not enspritied with a soul until 75,000 years ago.

(06-08-2017, 10:22 AM)Balyak Wrote: [ -> ]The oldest discovered burial sites are dated around 130,000 years ago, made by Neanderthals in a site in modern Croatia. The earliest discovered Homo sapiens graves are dated between 80,000 to 120,000 years ago, in a location in modern Israel. No 2D entity would bury his dead, that is clearly the mark of 3D consciousness and spiritual behavior. Same for art, with earliest evidence of aesthetic expression around 100,000 years ago.

So in both cases, earlier than the supposed switch to 3D on Earth, 75,000 years ago, according to Ra.

I believe that Neanderthal was a higher second-density entitity. Here a possible indication of Latwii:

Quote:J: Thank you. Can you tell me, when did the Neanderthal man change into the Cro-Magnon man? And why?

I am Latwii, and am aware of your query, my brother. As we attempt to trace the evolutionary pattern of your particular species, we find that there have been a variety of transitions from one form to another. Many of these transitions did not continue but found an ending in their evolutionary pattern. Your particular lineage is one which does include this entity of which you speak, the so-called
Neanderthal man. The transition which this entity partook in with others of a similar configuration was not a transition which can easily be delineated to a specific portion of what you call time, for the
transition was the kind in which the, shall we say, donor race or original race of entities died out, giving birth to the successors but a transition in which there was mutual cohabitation for a portion
…

(Side one of tape ends.)

(Jim channeling)

I am Latwii, and am with this instrument once again. To complete our attempt to answer your query, my brother, we may suggest that it is most difficult for us to be more precise in giving a date for this transition, for the transition was one that occurred over a great portion of what you call time, and was one in which there were, shall we say, parallel transitions being undertaken at the same time.

Another passage:

Quote:J: Yes, Latwii. Well, then did the Neanderthal man come after the Atlanteans? Before?

I am Latwii, and am aware of your query, my brother, and we dance with joy to be able to answer this particular query. We are aware that those that [are] called the Neanderthal entities were preceding those called the Atlanteans by a great portion of what you call time.

********************

I found some interesting informations of Q'uo:

Quote:Question chosen by PLW poll: Many, many people speak often of Atlantis and Lemuria as the supreme ancient advanced civilizations that existed on Earth. I believe that there was a world that existed before them as well. Can you give us any insight to the tribes that existed on Earth before Atlantis and Lemuria?

(Carla channeling)

We are the principle known to you as Q’uo.
[...]

In truth, your query is not one about which we have a great deal of information to share. We can affirm that there were indeed tribes of late second-density entities here before that point at which the Earth itself, as a planet, became able to support the kind of vibratory energy field that would be a good environment for a self-aware being such as you are. Therefore, if we go back before Lemuria and Atlantis on planet Earth, we are talking about late second density beings which were striving for third-density graduation.

They were doing so very successfully at the very end of a long second-density period that had moved through geological ages such as your ice age and back beyond that quite a ways in your planetary history. These were entities of what this entity would call the great ape family. These entities were striving towards self-awareness.

If you are a person who is owned by a cat or dog, you are aware of the many childlike and humanlike  qualities that are encouraged within a pet’s disposition and character as he or she goes through a life of being noticed, listened to, fed and offered affection. It changes that second-density entity and creates a more obvious likelihood that when such an entity reincarnates, he may have earned the right to choose to incarnate in a third-density physical vehicle.

Such was the case with theses entities of various species of the great ape genus. The animals, if you would call them that, which were of the second-density nature certainly had bestial natures. They were not conversing as you would with your friends.

However, they were developing means of communication with each other, starting with their second-density ability to sense into the truth of what is. That is the unique advantage of being a second-density entity rather than a third-density entity. Second density entities such as the great apes had, and continue to have, a greatly enhanced ability to know the truth. That is, there is not a veil of forgetting between the conscious mind and the reaches of the racial mind, the planetary mind, the archetypical mind, and the Creator’s mind. All of these noumenal, unknowable reaches of mind that are sought so eagerly by third-density entities were available without effort to the tribes of Earth before third density began to unroll its scroll of history.

These entities attempted to deal with each other and did so in the way of second-density entities, by creating territories which were theirs and common territories between tribal territories where they could all hunt. Therefore, there were the rudiments of communication, government and society.

There was the attempt to use tools, and the attempt to create beautiful things. Above all there was an overarching and underlying knowledge, we shall not call it faith, we shall call it knowledge, of the oneness of all things, and the sacredness of life. There was no question in these entities’ minds that they were children of the one Creator.

Therefore there was, in the late second-density being that was a member of the tribes of planet Earth in prehistory, every potential for the flowering of the spirit, and every ground laid for the third-density planetary experience that was to come.

We as a group did not approach such entities, in that there was no call and we are those who move by the rules of free will. The call from entities such as you asked for information concerning did not feel the need to call outside of the web of being that surrounded them all, which was instinctually known to be sacred.

Therefore, rather than calling for entities such as we, the call was immediate and moved into the earth, sky, the water and the fire, the plants and the animals which shared its environment and the Creator herself. In late second density, the Creator was seen to be a feminine character as females [give] birth [to] everything that exists.

Our experience with the tribes of Earth, indeed, does begin with Lemuria and Atlantis. Consequently, this is the sum of that about which we can speak concerning those tribes that danced the dance of late second density upon planet Earth and prepared the ground for the density of choice that was to come.

J: Did these second-density entities become thirddensity entities that again formed in tribes and behaved as mind/body/spirit complexes?

We are those of Q’uo, and are aware of your query, my brother. In essence, you are correct. The story, however, is a bit more tangled than it would appear. As third-density conditions become prevalent on planet Earth, beings with this body type of the great ape continued to incarnate and live lives that were of a nature of a tribe or clan, seemingly unchanged from second density.

However, the light of third density is that light which supports and encourages the development of the spirit complex. The probable course of development of these Earth-native entities that were now ensouled as they came into incarnation but dwelling in these particular bodies is unknown, for that evolutionary line was interrupted by those who felt it would be helpful to offer the third-density entities of planet Earth a much improved physical vehicle, one in which the jaw was manipulated in order that speech was more possible more easily, and one in which an upright posture was more possible.

To the adjustments to the body were added adjustments made to the mind complex in order to  sharpen mental acuity. This experiment, shall we say, interrupted the normal course of evolution. In a way it accelerated that evolution by making it far more possible for the body types of what you now are aware of as your human form to do the work of third-density entities. They were more able to make tools. They were able to think about the tools they made and to make changes to make them better.

However, the natural course of the development of the great ape into third density is one in which peaceful means of resolving disputes is valued almost to the exclusion [of] open hostility. There is a knowledge, shall we say, that is the carry-over from the awareness of late second-density of how things are. This territory is for group A, this territory is for group B and so on. There is a natural tendency in entities with this genetic heritage to find peaceful means of resolving differences of opinion.

As the advantages mounted, in the newfangled genetically adjusted human being, this [type of] being began to feel not at all humble, but rather begin to be filled with the arrogance of that concept that is almost unknown within tribal societies, the feeling of arrogance; that feeling that not only do you have a place in nature, but that you may take whatever place you can defend and make it your own.

The changes wrought by entities which were truly innocent of intention to do evil or to wreak negative consequences became that which was judged by the so-called Council of Nine as a disaster. There have been attempts made, ever since these genetic adjustments were offered to the tribe of planet Earth’s humans, to make amends, to rebalance that which was done without awareness of the quite substantially difficult consequences of these changes.


J: At some point, this second-density tribal group ofentities, Earth’s first third-density group, was joined by populations from other third-density planets that failed to make harvest to fourth [density]. Ra mentioned that sixteen other planets had given their populations to Earth when they had their harvest to fourth density and the populations did not make it to fourth density. So they came to Earth to repeat the cycle. Was this second-density tribal group able to keep its identity throughout the third-density cycle of Earth, to live together and evolve together? I’m wondering if the second-density group of entities that you spoke about was able to evolve, on Earth, in the third density, as a group, or were they assimilated into other groups?

We are those of Q’uo, and are aware of your query, my brother. The second-density great ape bodies, when compared with the second-density genetically altered bodies that were available for use, in the natural flow of the reproductive cycle, were seen by those entities who were coming into third-density Earth and taking form to complete their thirddensity cycle, to be the model [which was] more highly developed and easier to use, to the extent that the second-density bodies did not receive ensouled beings and simply reverted to [being] second-density animals carrying second-density souls, or rather mind/body complexes, as this instrument would call them, to differentiate them from mind/body/spirit complexes, which are the ensouled third-density type.

(06-09-2017, 10:24 AM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote: [ -> ]Possibly, but I wouldn't want to attempt to do so. Ra says that those of Deneb were Lemurian and then settled in the Americas and China. So I don't know if it's that simple.

If anything, I would think that the Mars entities would have possibly specifically become the Jewish race (Yahweh, Hebrew, chosen people, Moishe, etc)

I sort of lean both ways. It seems that entities have a disposition that effects determinate genes. Especially third density entities from foreign worlds. I think it is environmental factors, and as I said an entities pre-disposition. Not to say that it has to be so, but almost like the baggage or memories interact with the physical complex.

Given Ra's description of late 2d and early 3d, human beings seem like they could fit. It's actually pretty interesting to see what seems to be the apparent range/spectrum of third density awareness in today's world, in terms of people's willingness or interest to engage in abstract thought and their unquestioned belief of family/country as the self:

Quote:19.11 Questioner: Can you tell me how this new bodily complex was suited to third-density lessons and what those lessons were?

Ra: I am Ra. There is one necessity for third density. That necessity is self-awareness, or self-consciousness. In order to be capable of such, this chemical complex of body must be capable of the abstract thought. Thus, the fundamental necessity is the combination of rational and intuitive thinking. This was transitory in the second-density forms operating largely upon intuition which proved through practice to yield results.

The third-density mind was capable of processing information in such a way as to think abstractly and in what could be termed “useless” ways, in the sense of survival. This is the primary requisite.

There are other important ingredients: the necessity for a weaker physical vehicle to encourage the use of the mind, the development of the already present awareness of the social complex. These also being necessary: the further development of physical dexterity in the sense of the hand, as you call this portion of your body complex.

....

19.15 Questioner: Then the newest third-density beings who’ve just made the transition from second are still strongly biased towards self-service. There must be many other mechanisms to create an awareness of the possibility of service to others.

I am wondering, first— two things. I’m wondering about the mechanism and I am wondering when the split takes place where the entity is able to continue on the road towards service to self that will eventually take him to fourth or fifth density.

I would assume that an entity can continue— can start, say, in second density with service totally to self and continue right on through and just stay on what we would call the path of service to self and never ever be pulled over. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is incorrect. The second-density concept of serving self includes the serving of those associated with tribe or pack. This is not seen in second density as separation of self and other-self. All is seen as self since in some forms of second-density entities, if the tribe or pack becomes weakened, so does the entity within the tribe or pack.

The new or initial third-density entity has this innocent, shall we say, bias or distortion towards viewing those in the family, the society, as you would call, perhaps, country, as self. Thus though a distortion not helpful for progress in third density, it is without polarity.

The break becomes apparent when the entity perceives other-selves as other-selves and consciously determines to manipulate other-selves for the benefit of the self. This is the beginning of the road of which you speak.

-----



It's possible I am misunderstanding something, but from my perception of people's abstract thinking, and their belief in family/country as the self, it seems that I've met many human beings that are anywhere from very early third density to late 3d and of course some 4d. I can definitely imagine some human beings that are late 2d in evolution, hell I can even see that potentially today. Not a bad thing, there's a time and everyone has to start somewhere, but very fascinating.

Wow  Great references and findings! Infinite, that last quote of Q’uo is indeed amazing! It explains a lot!

It means that:

1. 2D ape-like-entities were almost 3D, behaving like 3D entities and were very peaceful in nature, knowing exactly that each tribe had its proper place in the world;
   
2. the genetic engineered entities that were cloned for bringing in the Mars entities were the more proper vessel to support 3D entities;
   
3. the 2D ape-like-entities "simply reverted to [being] second-density animals carrying second-density souls", but some did graduate according to Ra: 19.5;
   
4. the newly engineered entities were very similar to nowadays humans and at that time had a different perspective in life, which is, if they could take/defend for themselves a place in nature, they would and make it their own (this kind of mindset strangely reminds me of the movie Pocahontas);
   

Ra also mentioned that the transfiguration due to 3D vibrations that transited entities into 3D only took a "generation and one-half". Even if some groups of entities could live for 900 years at that time, it would only be approximately 1,350 years, which definitely ends my previous hypothesis of incarnations occurring during hundreds of thousands of years in 2D-3D "dual-bodies".

All of this still means that we still have not addressed exactly the puzzle that Balyak initially pinpointed:

Balyak Wrote:they were recent Homo sapiens fossil discoveries in Morocco which are around 300,000 years old

So, if the first entities that were truly incarnate in 3D bodies were genetically engineered only 75,000 years ago, these 300,000 years-old fossils:

• may have been bodies from another and older 3D density planet that visited Earth at that time (perhaps related to previously Yahweh's engineered entities);
  
• may be the result of space/time distortions caused by factors such as:
  
  1. working with pyramidal structures that altered the space/time continuum for those particular entities, Ra: 60.11;
     
  2. if Ra's 3D space/time continuum was different from ours and coincided with the beginning of our 2D density, space/time continuum before Earth's 3D could also be "experienced" differently (in this case, time expanding considerably?).
     

I have no idea why I became so curious about this... I guess time paradoxes fascinate me for some reason. Hope this may make some sense to a few...

Also, tools aren't unique to 3D life. High-end 2D life use tools (usually just branches to reach inside a tree and get bugs, an octopus using another shell for defense, etc).

(06-09-2017, 10:24 AM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote: [ -> ]If anything, I would think that the Mars entities would have possibly specifically become the Jewish race (Yahweh, Hebrew, chosen people, Moishe, etc)

Quote:Question chosen by PLW [1] poll: In a previous meditation, there was mention of souls from Mars who were unable to finish their third-density cycle there because of the destruction of their environment and who are now acting as stewards of this planet. Could you tell us about how many there are, when did they come here, and what are the majority of them doing today?

(Carla channeling)

We are those known to you as the principle of Q’uo. Greetings in the love and the light of the one infinite Creator, in Whose service we come to you this evening. It is a privilege and a pleasure to be called to your circle of seeking and we are honored to share our thoughts on your query this day, which has to do with those entities who came to Earth from the Red Planet, Mars.

We would, however, as always, ask of each who listens to or reads this material that each take responsibility for discriminating between those thoughts we share that have a meaning to you and seem resonant and those thoughts that we share that do not seem to hit the mark for you at all. If there is no resonance in the thoughts we share this day, please leave them behind. If you will agree to do that, we will feel to speak with you without being concerned overly much for infringing upon your free will or interfering with the process of your evolution.

We are happy to share information with you about those entities which came from the planet which you call Mars. We would, however, precede this information with a few words about our understanding concerning the importance of this information.

We are those who greatly enjoy speaking concerning spiritual principles that may be of service to you in your seeking. Information concerning where the various populations of your planet come from is fairly dry and mechanical information which we cannot infuse with a great deal of spiritual meaning except by the indirect references to what has occurred with those of the Red Planet and to some extent as to why things might have fallen out the way they did. Therefore, we would ask you to seek this information concerning the what and the when of the immigration from the Red Planet in the knowledge that our voice is a voice of love.

The details are never as important as the source of all the details, which is the one infinite Creator. The love that created the planets and their courses and all the mysteries in the universe has also created each of you, regardless of whence you come or whither you shall go in the worlds of illusion which abound in creation.

Therefore, no matter how interesting the details, we ask you to reserve a part of [your thoughts] for love Itself, that great Creator that has brought into manifestation all that is, including each of you, whether or not you might have at one time been a part of third density upon the Red Planet.

We shall tell you a story about a series of populations that arrives at Earth for the purpose of joining in the experience of sharing third density with those few people who actually graduated as natives from second-density Earth to the third density Earth.

The first and the largest of these populations was that of Mars. The entities of Mars had made some decisions in the practice of governments upon their planet which resulted in the nature of the surface of their planet changing from a planet which was relatively hospitable to third-density physical vehicles to a planet which was not at all hospitable to third-density vehicles. They were not able to finish the cycle of the Density of Choice in third density upon Mars.

The Guardians of this planet went before the Council of Saturn and asked for permission to move that population to Earth. The second-density vehicles available for physical use upon planet Earth at that time were late second-density great-ape bodies, which the guardians felt might be improved upon by articulating facial features a bit more carefully, by altering the set of the body so it would be able to stand upright, and by improving the dexterity of the physical vehicle, especially in the hands. And by creating a larger capacity within the mind that came with that biological species. In essence they created a new and improved great-ape body which looked a good deal like the one you are now enjoying.

The Guardians at that time found, within the space of several hundreds of your years, that they had made what they considered an error in creating the new and improved version of the great ape body used by the denizens from Mars and thereafter used by entering souls from planet Earth or from elsewhere, simply because it was indeed a new and improved physical vehicle that looked like it would be handier to use to the entering souls and their guidance systems.

The Guardians’ mistake was in creating better physical vehicle with the attitude that these physical vehicles were better and that the people that inhabited those physical vehicles were special. Naturally, the Guardians were very fond of the incoming population and felt great love for them, as they were placing them carefully and gently upon planet Earth to take up again their search for love.

What they did not anticipate was that the people themselves would feel that they were special. They were aware that their intellect [was more powerful] than other great-ape species that inhabited the Earth at that time. They felt privileged and special. And they created within themselves an attitude of “better than.”

The energy of the beings from the Red Planet was naturally somewhat progressive and fiery. They had demonstrated this aggression, this ability to wage war on their home planet and had succeeded in destroying the surface of it as an acceptable environment for third-density life. They carried these biases with them into third density upon this planet.

The very beginning of your cycle of third density upon planet Earth was nearly 76,000 of your years ago, by your counting. The [Martian population] incarnated in what you would call the Middle East and parts of Africa first, their thickest area of population in that area of the planet. Gradually they become the populations that you now know of as the Moslems, the Jewish people, the Palestinians, and others of Middle Eastern heritage.

As the population settled in and began their cycles of reincarnation to gain experience and learn the lessons of love, they spread out, becoming the populations that you now know as the Russian and Eastern Orthodox churches, the Christian church, and the Christian Protestant church as opposed to the Christian Roman Catholic church. All of these populations are heavily “larded” with those originally from planet Mars.

You will note that these entities comprise the bulk of those who believe in one God. The up-side in the belief in one Creator is that it is closer to that mystery of the Creator than the solution which posits many gods. It is our understanding that all things are one, and the infinite Creator is as single as Its universe and creation.

The down-side in believing in one God is that belief that only if you believe in that one God—and believe in a certain way—shall your soul reach heaven. This creates a bias within the religious, and oftentimes the political mind of those [who so believe] that there is their way or the highway, as this instrument would put it.

You will note that in the Moslem church, the Christian church, and in the church of the Jews that there is a strong tendency to exclude certain of their members who do not believe specifically in the points of dogma in which they hold to be true. The tendency of this energy of belief in one God, then, has its challenging aspects when it comes to using that religion as a springboard for the lessons of love.

If you will examine the writings that are at the heart of any of those three religions, you will find a mystical understanding of unity that is very similar between those three churches. However, for the entity that is living an everyday life, the tendency with dogmatic churches is to be very exclusionary and judgmental, so that an entity is told basically, “Either you believe the way we believe or you are consigned to one of the circles of Hell after you are dead.” They then feel that it is permissible and even desirable to proselytize and attempt to create that bias within those whom they meet.

This nest or web of actions is basically the end result of the Guardians, 75,000 years ago, making too many improvements on physical vehicles and creating pride and arrogance as a birthright of the new and improved human species. You may still see those energies playing themselves out in your Earth world at this time.

What are those of Mars doing these days? As the one known as J said jokingly earlier, they are running your countries, parking your cars, taking care of your children, and doing every other human thing you can think of. For there are millions and millions of those who came from Mars. They are, as are all of those within third density at this time, striving to learn the lessons of love.

Many of those who come from the Red Planet have earned the right to graduate into fourth density. They have achieved that shift in consciousness from fear to love, from war to peace, from doubt to faith, and from despair to hope. There is no stigma in being from Mars, anymore than there is a stigma to anyone for being born of a certain genetic heritage.

It is not that the physical vehicle that you inhabit is unimportant. It should be honored, respected and loved, for it has given its life so that you and your consciousness may walk the planet and learn the lesson that you came to learn. It is that body whose hands reach out to do the service you would do for your fellow human being. It is that voice that sings the praises of the one infinite Creator. Without your body you would be unable to have incarnation.

At the same time, it is not well to identify entirely with the body that carries you about. For the body that is carelessly [used] and not justly appreciated will tend to wish to rule over the mind and spirit. It has strong instincts, not because of genetic changes but because of the inherent second-density heritage. It wishes instinctually to mate, to form a clan for family, to gather resources so that the clan may live, and to protect those resources, and, if necessary, defend them to the death.

We may note that in our humble opinion some of the actions of your governments at this time fall solidly under the influences of those instincts. You are at the end of your third density, moving into that time of graduation. Those who do not choose to graduate will necessarily fall back to the instincts to late second density as they prepare to start another third-density cycle elsewhere.

We would ask each of you with a resonance with the history of those of Mars, “Do you wish to take a leap forward, to wake up from the dream of hostility?”

If so, then you have every necessary capacity and have probably already made the choice to turn your back on violence and negativity and to choose love as your expression, your being, and your goal. We encourage you to trust yourself and to give all that you have into making this shift. It is not too late. The decision to choose love is a matter of a heartbeat. Each decision to choose love is a matter of a heartbeat.

We would ask if there is a follow up question at this time. We are those of Q’uo.

(No further queries.)

We are those of Q’uo. The silence that we hear expresses to us that you have exhausted your questions for this evening. In that case we wish only to express our gratitude for being [asked to join your circle of seeking.] We are those of Q’uo. We leave you in the love and the light, the peace and the power of the one infinite Creator. Adonai. Adonai, my friends.

Source: http://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/is..._0321.aspx

(08-20-2017, 06:16 PM)Beriem Wrote: [ -> ]All of this still means that we still have not addressed exactly the puzzle that Balyak initially pinpointed:

(08-20-2017, 06:16 PM)Beriem Wrote: [ -> ]So, if the first entities that were truly incarnate in 3D bodies were genetically engineered only 75,000 years ago, these 300,000 years-old fossils

Probably 2D bodies. The differences between 2D and 3D bodies are not accentuated. The other possibility, as you said, is 3D visitants, but the skeleton of others lifeforms must be different to not ape body.

Thank you Infinite, the quote on Mars is so beautiful

 
My understanding is that 3d is allowed to incarnate on Earth in batches of time.  The 75000 years is not the last 75000 linear years of time, it is a total of 75000 years of 3d incarnations that could have been spread over hundreds of millions of years.  No traces of previous advanced civilizations simply because they might have happened 50 millions years ago (like Atlantis) and then a gap of millions of years without 3d incarnations before resuming them again a couple thousand years ago.
 

Good God Infinite that was the most beautiful and illuminating channeling and I had missed it till now.
Thank you so much it nearly made me cry.

Curious is their one Q’uo book? I would love to buy that to study.

(09-25-2018, 10:02 PM)Glow Wrote: [ -> ]Curious is their one Q’uo book?.

I didn't understand your doubt. Do you know Q'uo?

I wouldn't ever try to dissuade anyone from interpreting inconsistencies that they find on their own terms. I think for anyone who gives at least some credence to more conventional historical narratives widely accepted by science (which I do), there are conflicts with this in the Ra material. Because I care about the material and my personal identity has a bit of a stake in it, I recognize that my mind will tend to try to explain things away so that they give room for Ra's words to hold primacy over other traditional narratives. I've come to work with this as sort of a self-aware cognitive dissonance. I think it's good for anyone sorting through conventional knowledge vs. Ra's words to keep in mind.

That said, my mind works out the inconsistency of Ra's claims of when humans first existed and the conventional history with a similar sentiment others here have shared: that the types of behaviors exhibited by humans from 75,000-500,000 years ago were not necessarily indicative of 3rd density consciousness. I would challenge this notion:

Quote:No 2D entity would bury his dead, that is clearly the mark of 3D consciousness and spiritual behavior. Same for art, with earliest evidence of aesthetic expression around 100,000 years ago.

I'm not quite sure why these things would have to be exclusive to a fully 3D being. I think it is completely within the realm of possibility that these are glimmers of 3D consciousness shining through higher 2D beings. There are animals today that use tools and show faint glimmers of abstract thought, even abstract communication. The very basic behaviors of burial (an incredibly deep-rooted ritual that must have some sort of instinctual origin) and the basic artistic renditions from 100,000 years ago, in my mind, could very well be the confluence of an impending 3rd density, higher second-density life, and instinct meeting with the first signs of abstract thought. I wouldn't even discount that humans of 500,000 years ago could reach the most basic types of behavior indicative of 3D abstract thought.

I see it similar to 3D beings having the ability to grasp and express love. This obviously isn't a 1 to 1 comparison, but we aren't blind to love just because we aren't in 4D. We are able to understand love, even if just a small amount. Surely there are behaviors of humans now (or even thousands of years ago) that can be compared to 4D behaviors. But similarly to how there's a vast chasm between simple cave drawings and the interconnected society of 2018, there is probably a chasm between our idea of love and the actual love of 4D.