Working in the healthcare field, I'm exposed to all walks of life and sometimes these points in time, other selves are at their worst. Not in a bad sense, just at a low point of sorts. I xray people who truly are hurt and those that have to come to the emergency room because they lack health insurance. Some are so conditioned by big pharma and society that they need a pill to get better.
I'm generally good albeit in the minority that thinks that regardless of why they are here, they need help. It may be due to their ever destructive behaviour and lifestyle choices or simply because they are ignorant and reliant up on a system that has told them they can't do it themselves. Whatever it may be, they are there and it's my job and joy to at least bring a bit of comfort and hopefully a smile to their face.
Unfortunately, my attitude is in the extreme minority so I'm subject to quite frequent negative and judgemental comments and attitudes regarding patients and I admit that I allow it to affect me to the point where I join in. I do it then realize my imbalance and attempt to correct it for the next encounter. Having said that, there are times that I'm the pot stirrer especially when I've just worked 12 hours the prior night and exhaustion has kicked in.
Luckily I'm not working 12 days in a row anymore and I actually gave up one of my three jobs so I've been able to recuperate a bit until I have these long shifts which are a combination of two jobs. Though I love both and they are quite necessary, I find myself frustrated that the exhaustion somehow causes me to revert back to unbalanced ways.
For instance, I xrayed an elderly womans back today. She was probably 5ft and 300lbs. It took every bit of energy to walk the 20ft or so to my room. She exclaimed "I don't walk too much". Immediately, my thoughts were "gee I wonder why". I correct myself and proceed. We get into the room and I had to do these specific images standing. She had a very difficult time standing for a few minutes. The reason why she was doing this was because her doctor wouldn't give her a back brace until this was done. She said she can't stand for more than 10 minutes at a time before her back acts up.
After seeing her images and realizing that her back actually looked remarkably good for her age, I came to the conclusion that it was her weight yet she was completely oblivious to this. She even complained about her bathroom at home being too narrow and still never mentioned her weight.
I stewed over it and sunk to the level of ranting about the complete ignorance and lack of personal responsibility. As soon as the conversation was done, I had realized what I had done yet again and it's quite frustrating.
I understand that the balancing process is a never ending process. I know that once one appears to be balanced, another catalyst comes along to tell ya otherwise lol. What I find frustrating is that I'm very empathic towards most who come for help. I'm even empathic towards the iv drug users who are at what appears to be rock bottom yet nowhere close in their mind, manipulate people, take advantage of them, and even lash out of workers. But obese people, in this day and age if information, it's still very difficult for me to continuously keep a level of empathy that I have for others.
I have yet to pin down why yet I normally chalk it up to their own ignirance and reliance upon the system. I can brush it off at one instance, smile and say to myself, it's their path and their lessons. Yet other times, I just wanna be blunt and ask them how can they not see what they are doing to themselves.
It's quite the fickle experience working in healthcare. One ripe with a ridiculous amount of catalyst just waiting to be learned and boy does it teach me that I have much to learn
Some random thoughts that may help.
In essence, your are judging people that are obese by the way they look on the outside similar to the way a racist would judge another based on the color of their skin, nationality, religion, sexual preference, etc. Have you considered that?
I find it helpful in some instances to know the "whys" of things. Being in the medical field, you should know that there are many, many reasons that people are obese--some have thyroid issues, some take medication that causes them to gain weight, some eat because they are lonely or anxious or whatever, some were raised by obese parents and that's all they know, and so on. It's not just about over eating--it can be a combination of emotional and physical matters and/or ignorance or more.
It is also about this country. Our medical establishment is no longer geared towards teaching people how to become healthier and to take care of themselves, that's not profitable (and probably not covered by insurance). Instead pills are prescribed and band-aids are given (like the back brace) to treat the symptoms, not the cause.
I would venture to say that the American diet is one of the worst in the world. Fast food restaurants, soda, frozen dinners, etc. all contribute to obesity. When you are raised on these things, it is very difficult to wean yourself off of them. "My Mom wouldn't feed me anything that was bad for me." It is a very difficult battle to win.
Another thought...consider yourself, for example. You are having difficulty with accepting obese people. Is it easy for you to just stop doing that? Apparently, not. It takes time effort and persistence.
Food can be an addiction for some, just like cigarettes, alcohol and drugs. Certain foods are addictive in their own right such as cheese and sugar. (
https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/nati.../98877844/) Also, I've heard (somewhere) that there are actually ingredients added to certain foods to make them addictive. I don't know if that's true or not, but it's something to consider.
Maybe I've said something that will help you, maybe not, but I tried.
Peace, love and happiness.
I agree with most that you said except the race aspect. Race though I don't agree with such a thing as race is something one cannot change. Obesity, from a medical standpoint is far from that. The excuse that there is some medical reason for their obesity is extremely rare. The overwhelming number of type 2 diabetics are so because of poor eating habits. Hypothyroidism is again a poor excuse considering the ease at which synthroid or thyroxin is available thus counteracting the effects of hypothyroidism.
Blaming ones parents holds no credence again considering these are adults you are speaking of. Adults that should be able to make decisions on their own regarding their lifes choices.
This leads me back to knowing that whatever their issue, albeit emotional, ignorance, or simply laziness, I'm not there to judge or label yet at times when the exhaustion has set in, I succumb to such thoughts and it saddens me. The back breaking work we do lifting these people, moving them from a stretcher to our table, lifting them up all because they refuse to take responsibility is something the tires the mind and body.
I admire your level of self awareness.
Oftentimes when I look at obese people I start feeling claustrophobia - bc I know it's me in them experiencing what they're experiencing.
I don't think there's anything wrong with feeling anger or sadness or frustration or w/e else when you see an obese person. I tend to just let myself passionately feel w/e emotion that surfaces and then usually within seconds the emotion has passed and I'm good to go.
Don't be too hard on yourself, exhaustion most definitely causes irritability. Also, it might help to keep in mind that you could always be giving exactly what the doctor/creator ordered. ;)
(06-23-2017, 12:24 AM)isis Wrote: [ -> ]Oftentimes when I look at obese people I start feeling claustrophobia - bc I know it's me in them experiencing what they're experiencing.
I don't think there's anything wrong with feeling anger or sadness or frustration or w/e else when you see an obese person. I tend to just let myself passionately feel w/e emotion that surfaces and then usually within seconds the emotion has passed and I'm good to go.
Don't be too hard on yourself, exhaustion most definitely causes irritability. Also, it might help to keep in mind that you could always be giving exactly what the doctor/creator ordered. 
Thanks. It's been such a whirlwind the last 5 or 6 years for me. I went from the lowest of lows sleeping on my parents living room floor after my world crashed with my marriage, to finding this life changing purpose for living in the Law of One. The multiple jobs gave me my independence back but at the expense of my body and in some respects, my mind and spirit.
This level of exhaustion has caused such a de-evolution in many areas of my spiritual awareness and discipline. Hell I've even lashed out at people here and the Law of One facebook group in the past to which I'm sorry for. I had no issue with empathy before this set in. I had no issue with acceptance of others path or purpose in this game of life we call illusion. The exhaustion also caused me to increase my alcohol intake but a lot. At times we were drinking every other day just to escape the aches and pains a long with my mind.
Yet it's like I'm back at square one in a sense. One positive point is that we finally have begun doing some exercise again this week. I actually felt great the first half of the week prior to the 12 hour shift. My hopes were to actually meditate for the first time in a long time yesterday morning but the 12 hour shift negated any possibility of that. My hope is that we can finally start the routine morning meditations after cardio again on Monday. I am on call all weekend but the 2nd job that I'm on call for isn't anywhere near as physically strenuous as xray is so I shouldn't be too tired.
Thanks for allowing me to complain a bit.
I tend to disagree on the race issue, I think you can change the way you think about race. I don't think racism is natural and believe one is conditioned to think that way by their environment (i.e. parents, other people, etc.) Conditioning throughout your childhood about disliking a certain race of people creates a racist. To me, this is similar to the conditioning to eat a certain way creates an obese person. Both are very difficult to overcome.
Maybe try thinking about awakening. As in some people are awakened to the Law of One and their spirituality and some are not. Do you (can you) have compassion for those that are not awakened? Perhaps you could think about an obese person as not awakened to the knowledge that obesity causes health problems. You can't make or force them become awakened, they have to become so on their own.
That's all I got. Just thought that looking at the issue from a different perspective might help you to have more compassion for these people. At least you recognize it in yourself and working with that knowledge in meditation or balancing may help to overcome it. But, if you feel that it is like racism and cannot be changed so it will be.
Nah I meant those of a given race cannot change their race. Not that I can't change the way I perceive them. I don't see race though. I only see a human with different shades of pigment. My daughter is a shining example and one that was never taught to say this but when she refers to someone a complexion other than her own, she says darker skinned man which I think is awesome
Jeremy, I think it's essential, as part of the STO orientation, to find a way to be at peace with other people being as they are - whether we perceive it as ignorance or self-destruction. Let people make their mistakes or be wrong (from your point of view). And offer loving help to the extent that the person is receptive to it.
It sounds like something in you is being triggered by obese people, which would likely benefit from being identified and healed. There's a simple way to do this. In meditation, imagine yourself being around that 300 lb woman and allow the emotions she triggered to arise. Take your focus off the woman and focus instead on your emotions about her. Sit with them, with curiosity and compassion toward yourself and your feelings. Ask inside, "why am I feeling this?" but don't try to reason about it or figure it out. Just be receptive and see what comes up.
Jeremy Wrote:Unfortunately, my attitude is in the extreme minority so I'm subject to quite frequent negative and judgemental comments and attitudes regarding patients and I admit that I allow it to affect me to the point where I join in. I do it then realize my imbalance and attempt to correct it for the next encounter. Having said that, there are times that I'm the pot stirrer especially when I've just worked 12 hours the prior night and exhaustion has kicked in.
If you're not already meditating on the realization of these imbalances (and also their feel, taste, character), I would suggest doing so. It is admirable that you seek not to judge those with whom you work, but keep in mind that judging yourself is the other side of that coin. It seems to me from my limited vantage point that you are getting a great deal of invaluable experience to work with. Can you comfort and soothe yourself in the same way that you attempt to serve your clients? Can you find a way to show compassion for yourself when you've made decisions you regret? You might find greater resilience to the cynicism of your coworkers if you can work with your "inner client" in a more loving manner.
Jeremy Wrote:Luckily I'm not working 12 days in a row anymore and I actually gave up one of my three jobs so I've been able to recuperate a bit until I have these long shifts which are a combination of two jobs. Though I love both and they are quite necessary, I find myself frustrated that the exhaustion somehow causes me to revert back to unbalanced ways.
I reflect a lot on the ways that stresses like exhaustion and hurry factor into catalyst. It's one thing to balance our emotions, but it seems like there's these other physical and mental factors the affect the resources we have to bring to bear on balancing. It's like we have to be able to be balanced even when we're at low energy and it doesn't seem fair, since it takes some amount of effort to center ourselves within the swirling storm of third density. Maybe these are just the different difficulty levels we play the game of balance on, I dunno.
(06-23-2017, 06:12 AM)Jeremy Wrote: [ -> ] (06-23-2017, 12:24 AM)isis Wrote: [ -> ]Oftentimes when I look at obese people I start feeling claustrophobia - bc I know it's me in them experiencing what they're experiencing.
I don't think there's anything wrong with feeling anger or sadness or frustration or w/e else when you see an obese person. I tend to just let myself passionately feel w/e emotion that surfaces and then usually within seconds the emotion has passed and I'm good to go.
Don't be too hard on yourself, exhaustion most definitely causes irritability. Also, it might help to keep in mind that you could always be giving exactly what the doctor/creator ordered.
Thanks. It's been such a whirlwind the last 5 or 6 years for me. I went from the lowest of lows sleeping on my parents living room floor after my world crashed with my marriage, to finding this life changing purpose for living in the Law of One. The multiple jobs gave me my independence back but at the expense of my body and in some respects, my mind and spirit.
This level of exhaustion has caused such a de-evolution in many areas of my spiritual awareness and discipline. Hell I've even lashed out at people here and the Law of One facebook group in the past to which I'm sorry for. I had no issue with empathy before this set in. I had no issue with acceptance of others path or purpose in this game of life we call illusion. The exhaustion also caused me to increase my alcohol intake but a lot. At times we were drinking every other day just to escape the aches and pains a long with my mind.
Yet it's like I'm back at square one in a sense. One positive point is that we finally have begun doing some exercise again this week. I actually felt great the first half of the week prior to the 12 hour shift. My hopes were to actually meditate for the first time in a long time yesterday morning but the 12 hour shift negated any possibility of that. My hope is that we can finally start the routine morning meditations after cardio again on Monday. I am on call all weekend but the 2nd job that I'm on call for isn't anywhere near as physically strenuous as xray is so I shouldn't be too tired.
Thanks for allowing me to complain a bit.
I wasn't going to reply and make assumptions but each time I read this thread the same point pops up. Lack of self nurturing.
Usually our intolerance or lack of empathy truely comes because we have a blind spot within ourselves that is a parallel. Your irritation is you seeing subconsciously something you also suffer from.
Obesity to me always seems like lack of self nurturing. If they were driven to value and nurture themselves they would have cared for themself like a pressious treasure. Providing appropriate sleep, nutrition and exercise to ensure they take the best care they can of their life sustaining body.
So based on that can you perhaps see the parallel? It sounds like you too are not doing a great job at self nurturing.
I hope this isn't too blunt but it's easy to have compassion when we have the light of understanding.
I have my own blind spot too but I've figured out my parallel issue and it is getting much easier to be compassionate about it.
Glow Wrote:I wasn't going to reply and make assumptions but each time I read this thread the same point pops up. Lack of self nurturing.
AMEN! This has been a huge insight for me personally, especially with the help of reading Pema Chödrön's excellent, excellent book,
When Things Fall Apart, that at times reads to me like an actual manual for applying Confederation philosophy to real life. Apparently Buddhism they have this concept of "Maitri" which Chödrön translates as "loving-kindness" but she often describes as "unconditional friendliness with oneself". I find it downright radical to have an
unconditionally friendly relationship with yourself, and it strikes me as absolutely vital if you're going to take an honest assessment of your weak, dark, edgy, uncomfortable, unloved parts. So often we are harsh with ourselves, and condemnation gets us nowhere -- it actually impels us to repress more and more, and therefore express that repression to others as well. You have to friends with yourself -- your whole self -- in order to be able to show compassion to others in a way that draws upon all of your resources, all of your experiences, and doesn't equate to you just working out issues with the other being a prop in that process!
When I originally read about this it sounded a little "Stewart Smalley" to me, if you remember that SNL skit: you know, the mousey guy looking in the mirror telling himself "I'm good enough, smart enough, and dog gone it people like me!". But part of what makes that skit so funny is that you can tell he really doesn't actually believe it and the performance is so contrived. Nevertheless I've been imagining giving myself little "hugs" in meditation and throughout the day, acknowledging when I feel hurt instead of simply reacting to the hurt, and it helps me make an honest assessment of myself much better. Unconditional friendliness, in my opinion, means it doesn't even matter if you're good enough. It is not conditional, and I find I feel a lot less threatened by others in day-to-day interactions. Similarly, I find myself just naturally having a lot more empathy and compassion, and there's more space in my life to consider things and not simply replay the tapes in reaction to the same old stimuli. It's not an indulgence of yourself any more than being a friend to somebody else is somehow "indulging" them. I'm still a beginner with all this but it's been such a positive thing for me that I wanted to share.
Thanks everyone. You've all been a great help
Race? I identify with a coffee mug just as much as every other human body. the confusing part about reality is that there is just one to talk about. Talking about aspects as isolated phenomena is like talking about tiers on a car as if they are not part of the same thing, or fingers on the hand like they are not part of the same body.
*edit* I did not read the whole thing, just skimmed and read the notion of race.
(06-22-2017, 05:49 PM)Jeremy Wrote: [ -> ]....
I stewed over it and sunk to the level of ranting about the complete ignorance and lack of personal responsibility. As soon as the conversation was done, I had realized what I had done yet again and it's quite frustrating.
....
Quote:89.30 Questioner: Would Ra’s attitude toward the same unharvestable entities be different at this nexus than at the time of harvest of third density?
Ra: I am Ra. Not substantially. To those who wish to sleep we could only offer those comforts designed for the sleeping. Service is only possible to the extent it is requested. We were ready to serve in whatever way we could. This still seems satisfactory as a means of dealing with other-selves in third density. It is our feeling that to be each entity which one attempts to serve is to simplify the grasp of what service is necessary or possible.
Some who loudly or repeatedly request for healing service, actually want only want to be served with comforts designed for sleeping, or sometimes want no service at all. Many people who say nothing make requests for service in other ways.
The conscious mind and conscious requests for help only represent a part of the free will of an entity. In an unawakened or in a severely distorted entity, I would say the conscious aspect only represents a small fragment of its free will, with the greater portion residing in the subconscious. To take it further, conscious desires are only a fragment of true desires for some entities, with the true desire residing in the deeper in the subconscious.
I too find it hard to see such outright contradiction as in the situation you describe, but I think the woman in your case probably did not want to truly heal - despite her consciously stated intent. I think the better we understand that just because someone asks for help, does not necessarily mean they actually wished to be truly helped or healed. Sometimes they want help to sleep or to be comforted, or they ask for help as a projection of their desire to feel powerless in the situation, or sometimes just to vent rather than change. It's hard, but I try to understand what goes on in people's deeper
mind, because the conscious one is often full of outright contradiction and projection. This goes for
myself as well.
-----
So bringing the topic back to the subject line, "Empathy is such a fickle thing," I would say that in the situations your describe, the secret to empathy in these cases, is to truly understand the other-self, both in how they came to be in the situation, but also understanding that their conscious desire may not be their true desire, and to respect their choices to remain unchanged or to continue living without true examination of the underlying causes.
(06-23-2017, 01:01 PM)Glow Wrote: [ -> ] (06-23-2017, 06:12 AM)Jeremy Wrote: [ -> ] (06-23-2017, 12:24 AM)isis Wrote: [ -> ]Oftentimes when I look at obese people I start feeling claustrophobia - bc I know it's me in them experiencing what they're experiencing.
I don't think there's anything wrong with feeling anger or sadness or frustration or w/e else when you see an obese person. I tend to just let myself passionately feel w/e emotion that surfaces and then usually within seconds the emotion has passed and I'm good to go.
Don't be too hard on yourself, exhaustion most definitely causes irritability. Also, it might help to keep in mind that you could always be giving exactly what the doctor/creator ordered.
Thanks. It's been such a whirlwind the last 5 or 6 years for me. I went from the lowest of lows sleeping on my parents living room floor after my world crashed with my marriage, to finding this life changing purpose for living in the Law of One. The multiple jobs gave me my independence back but at the expense of my body and in some respects, my mind and spirit.
This level of exhaustion has caused such a de-evolution in many areas of my spiritual awareness and discipline. Hell I've even lashed out at people here and the Law of One facebook group in the past to which I'm sorry for. I had no issue with empathy before this set in. I had no issue with acceptance of others path or purpose in this game of life we call illusion. The exhaustion also caused me to increase my alcohol intake but a lot. At times we were drinking every other day just to escape the aches and pains a long with my mind.
Yet it's like I'm back at square one in a sense. One positive point is that we finally have begun doing some exercise again this week. I actually felt great the first half of the week prior to the 12 hour shift. My hopes were to actually meditate for the first time in a long time yesterday morning but the 12 hour shift negated any possibility of that. My hope is that we can finally start the routine morning meditations after cardio again on Monday. I am on call all weekend but the 2nd job that I'm on call for isn't anywhere near as physically strenuous as xray is so I shouldn't be too tired.
Thanks for allowing me to complain a bit.
I wasn't going to reply and make assumptions but each time I read this thread the same point pops up. Lack of self nurturing.
Usually our intolerance or lack of empathy truely comes because we have a blind spot within ourselves that is a parallel. Your irritation is you seeing subconsciously something you also suffer from.
Obesity to me always seems like lack of self nurturing. If they were driven to value and nurture themselves they would have cared for themself like a pressious treasure. Providing appropriate sleep, nutrition and exercise to ensure they take the best care they can of their life sustaining body.
So based on that can you perhaps see the parallel? It sounds like you too are not doing a great job at self nurturing.
I hope this isn't too blunt but it's easy to have compassion when we have the light of understanding.
I have my own blind spot too but I've figured out my parallel issue and it is getting much easier to be compassionate about it.
I just realized I somehow never read your entire reply so apologies for the late response.you can never be too blunt with me as I only hope to elicit the most honest feedback that will assist me in learning a particular lesson.
I have struggled with a bit of self nurturing due to the exhaustion felt. It's work work work then drink to forget and numb myself from the pain. The only reprieve would be when we would go camping and hiking which is every 4 months or so.
This week and most of last week has been much better though. Been doing cardio on the treadmill and much more reading of transcripts which have helped tremendously. I had to leave work early the last two days though as I worked 4 hours Saturday and Sunday, then 14.5 hours Monday and 10.5 hours monday which drained me beyond belief.
I do feel a bit better today but not quite energized though I did get on the treadmill. I'm hoping that Monday will be the start of our meditations.
My earlier post got lost, so I'll summarize my point briefly with regard to xise's mention of true desires, e.g.
Quote:So bringing the topic back to the subject line, "Empathy is such a fickle thing," I would say that in the situations your describe, the secret to empathy in these cases, is to truly understand the other-self, both in how they came to be in the situation, but also understanding that their conscious desire may not be their true desire, and to respect their choices to remain unchanged or to continue living without true examination of the underlying causes.
Quote: but I think the woman in your case probably did not want to truly heal - despite her consciously stated intent. I think the better we understand that just because someone asks for help, does not necessarily mean they actually wished to be truly helped or healed.
Great care should be exercised in claiming that a person doesn't truly want what they state. Sure, some people are clearly lying to themselves and/or others about what they want. However, let's look at the structure of the psyche and the desires of various parts:
- The between-incarnations self wants primarily to ascend the ladder of spiritual evolution and polarize. This is the desire of the unveiled self which has the clearest perspective on existence.
- The incarnated self is comprised of that self and its (now unconscious) desire, the animal body with its desire for pleasure and avoidance of pain and the satisfaction of its instincts, the core personality focused on growth, and sub-personalities carrying trauma and distorted perspectives. Plus, being veiled, we stop focusing on the main spiritual goal and focus on the myriad little things that seem so important to us while we're here. So, already it is difficult to determine which of these is "the true desire."
When we encounter a situation/catalyst - let's say being offered a slice of cake after a diagnosis of diabetes - we're a battlefield of competing impulses. The instinct-driven parts will respond to seeing cake with desire to eat the cake. The rational part will respond with attempts to suppress that desire because it's not healthy. This can trigger a rebellious part traumatized by overcontrolling parents in childhood to intensify the desire to have the cake and anger at not being allowed to have it.
All of those impulses and emotions reach our conscious awareness, which ultimately decides how to proceed. It's not a free and dispassioned choice, however - all these other parts are metaphorically pulling and pushing the person's hand in various directions; there can be very strong and very real resistance there.
So what is the person's "true desire" in this case? If she is consistently unable to resist the cake, is it because she doesn't "truly" want to? I think describing it this way is unfair to the person, it is neither accurate nor compassionate. It may be more helpful to say that she is doing the best she can given her rational knowledge/understanding and the combination of internal and external pressures.
This is why people can invest a decade of hard work into a Ph.D. but never finish the dissertation and drop out, giving rise to the common "ABD" phenomenon - despite their conscious desire to finish, their traumatized subpersonalities are resisting in fear and blocking them. Another example, more relevant to the original post - a woman who had been raped may develop an unconscious part who tries to keep her unattractive through obesity, believing that this is necessary to keep her safe from men; this part will actively oppose and sabotage any efforts to diet or exercise.
When interacting with someone, the best indication of their 'true desire' is what they say their true desire is. If that doesn't match their behavior, then it's worthwhile to explore their inner obstacles rather than assume they don't really want what they say they do.
(07-02-2017, 12:09 PM)Stranger Wrote: [ -> ]- The incarnated self is comprised of that self and its (now unconscious) desire, the animal body with its desire for pleasure and avoidance of pain and the satisfaction of its instincts, the core personality focused on growth, and sub-personalities carrying trauma and distorted perspectives. Plus, being veiled, we stop focusing on the main spiritual goal and focus on the myriad little things that seem so important to us while we're here. So, already it is difficult to determine which of these is "the true desire."
....
So what is the person's "true desire" in this case? If she is consistently unable to resist the cake, is it because she doesn't "truly" want to? I think describing it this way is unfair to the person, it is neither accurate nor compassionate. It may be more helpful to say that she is doing the best she can given her rational knowledge/understanding and the combination of internal and external pressures.
....
When interacting with someone, the best indication of their 'true desire' is what they say their true desire is. If that doesn't match their behavior, then it's worthwhile to explore their inner obstacles rather than assume they don't really want what they say they do.
I would agree with the last part of your comment. I would only say that it's for the person to explore their inner obstacles, and I've found it often very difficult to figure out another's inner obstacles if they don't wish to explore it themselves. "True desire" maybe poor word choice, as it can be charged. It can sound cold and non-compassionate. I used those words because for me true desire does not hold a sense of condemnation or judgment as it may for others, but competing desires is probably a better phrase.
I think the key point that I differ: I feel it's a natural part of healing a great wound to at first suppress/repress the wound as a human being on Earth, then slowly have competing desires about whether to be healed/whether one is ready to examine it, then ultimately a true focus on examination and healing. I think it's also totally part of the healing process when someone suffers great catalyst and avoids it initially - it seems natural and normal for most to have a period in which a part of them wishes to change - and they consciously express the desire to change - but a great part of them is not ready to visit the suffering and they remain unmoved in acting toward true healing. I still feel strongly that we cannot venture into the deep psyche or even help the other venture into the inner obstacles - the ones that you mention - unless the other person wishes to do so. Many people say they want to overcome an obstacle, but refuse to examine or acknowledge or discuss the inner obstacles, and I think regardless of whatever label we must put, it's important to accept, understand, and allow that. I think such inconsistency is a normal part of the healing process, the ones that some do get past, though some certainly do.
I say this phenomenon exists with great confidence because I've seen in myself as well as others, having been depressed for more than a half-decade, and having worked with hundreds of drug addicts and battered spouses. It was initially very difficult to see people I've grown to know, spend dozens of hours with, return to drugs or their abusive spouse despite countless statements and intentions to the contrary, but I came to understand that as their choice, and began to accept that. It is difficult though to accept, I would definitely say, but I truly found myself to become less harsh with them when they inevtiably had future contact with me, for me to understand that they are making their own free will choices, and to respect that. I was completely less compassionate when I initially tried forcing my help down their throat, with the justification being that they made a statement they want help but kept repeating the same behavior - I felt my means of help became more and more harsh, judgmental, and controlling.
Certainly that doesn't mean you prejudge people who say they want help without helping them - but as you offer your service - as Jeremy did with the women- within a few interactions it can be become readily apparent what competing desire is currently at the forefront, and I think while one can nudge, ultimately it's important to accept the free will of the other and respect that choice, without judge or condemning them. Life on earth is hard. It is up to the person when they are ready to go into the seeming darkness within them and bring light upon it. And whenever or even if they chose to do, it truly is completely understanding. I think most of us came to the Ra material/became awake past their teenage years so we can all remember the outlook on life with the normal societal outlook, and can easily understand the choices some people may make. And even if they don't wish to be healed due to competiting desires, it is still service to offer comfort, and I think comfort in the early stages of healing trauma is a very important and critical stage of the healing process on this planet.
xise I agree - we cannot examine/heal anyone else's inner obstacles without their wish to do so; I should've made that more explicit in my statement. Even with their consent, we can't do it for them - at best we can guide them through the self-exploration process. And I definitely agree that attempting to force healing against the recipient's consciously stated will is an infringement.
My main point (and I believe we're on the same page here) is that if someone runs into obstacles obtaining their explicitly stated goals -- even if they seem to be sabotaging themselves -- it's often premature to conclude that those are not their true goals.
Good stuff everyone! Definitely digging everyones perspective